Open Thread: Presidential Debate 2
OMG this is painful.
Two long winded people who like to dodge questions.
I’m about to flip to the Real Housewives of Atlanta and just catch the transcripts and the wrap up tomorrow morning.
Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
Edited: I amused myself watching the lines and Brokaw having a breakdown about the time. Looking around the ’sphere, I’m glad to see I wasn’t the only one bored.
(Photo Credit: The Telegraph [UK])
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allheavens wrote:
I could not stand it any more. BOOOOORING! I I was hoping for a McCain meltdown, probably not going to get it.
Sarah Palin and John McCain have been stumping all over the nation delivering race-baiting diatribes in the guise of campaign speeches. Obama needs to call him on the shit. But I guess that won’t happen either.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 9:08 pm ¶
amateur editrix wrote:
“you know who voted for that bill? That one.” -McCain
-_-. THAT ONE. Not ‘That Candidate”; not “that Senator”. That one. Obama’s not even human.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 9:17 pm ¶
Brendan wrote:
That really jarred me, too, amateur editrix. Really amazing.
Did it seem to anyone else like McCain was five seconds away from collapsing for most of the evening? The answers weren’t painful for me…watching him jerk around the stage like a robot with dying batteries was.
I actually thought that Obama did a pretty good job in the first half of being straightforward with his answers. But once again, things waned after the midpoint.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 9:41 pm ¶
withoutscene wrote:
Am I just paranoid or did that “his secret you don’t know” comment from McCain feel like he was trying to evoke the “secret Muslim” fears. He was clearly trying to portray Obama as dishonest, but I felt like this was different than “what he’s not telling you is…”
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 9:55 pm ¶
waxghost wrote:
Did anyone else notice that Brokaw seemed to only mention the time right after Obama spoke? My husband pointed it out to me after the first three answers or so and it mostly seemed to hold through the whole thing.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 9:56 pm ¶
Will wrote:
That one
That jarred me awake. I mean, c’mon, talk about a lack of respect.
Anyway, my take Obama won, McCain did okay. But the pundits will spin it that either McCain won or that they were equal.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 10:05 pm ¶
J.R. Bernard wrote:
I like when Palin debates more tan I do when McCain does. I laugh more.
lol
Jokes aside, I felt like both sides stuck mostly to their talking points, which was annoying. I did find it very offensive that John McCain would insinuate that Oliver Clark probably never heard of Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae until recent weeks.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 10:21 pm ¶
eff wrote:
I used to think McCain’s use of “my friends” was a charming (well, kinda – as charming as it could be coming out of McCain’s mouth) vocal tic, but the more I hear it the more frighteningly disingenuous it becomes.
@amateur editrix: you nailed it. I thought I had misheard McCain for a second, but now that it’s been confirmed I’m absolutely speechless right now.
This debate lacked the electricity that I wished it would have, and I suppose the next debate will be the same.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 10:23 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
I watched the demise of Danity Kane after I got my fill of the debate. To me, McCain seemed a lot more feisty tonight – ready to get down in that mud and sling with the pros.
But I’ll never understand how you can expect to expand programs, powers, and pay down the deficit without raising taxes. No, I don’t make a habit of asking to pay more taxes, but, er, uh, how else is the gov’t gonna get money? Bake sale anyone?
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 11:23 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:
What’s with McCain’s eyes? He was constantly blinking?
I only caught the end, watching a live feed, and then watched the half-hour after where the candidates chatted with the crowd. I was struck by how awkward and uncomfortably the McCains, who left after ten minutes seemed. The Obamas seemed to be having great fun, stayed for half an hour talking to people, posing with audience members for pictures, signing autographs, enduring bear hugs from several giddy fat ladies. It was great to watch.
It seemed to me that the Obamas actually enjoy engaging, while the McCains acted afraid they might get cooties from the unwashed masses.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 11:24 pm ¶
Asada wrote:
There was nothing inspireing.
Ethier way, under each plan we are skrewed, financially, socially, politically and in terms of foriegn policy.
The debate was just too boring for me to point and say “look at what HE DID!” Although Brokaw (sp) seemed more forcefull with his questioning and would not tolerate slackness. He seemed no nonsense and to the point. That was interesting to watch him seem to lose his temper all the sudden and then pull it back in.
Posted 07 Oct 2008 at 11:44 pm ¶
Renee wrote:
I can still hear him saying “that one” and pointing to Obama. He might as well have called him boy in front of the world. I was incredibly angry after that. Of course when you add the fact that he refused to shake Obamas hand and completely ignored Michelle, what can you say except that McCain was displaying white privilege?
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:11 am ¶
Luis wrote:
This is what’s called the “rope a dope.” Obama let McCain work himself up and tire himself out throwing big swings and bad jokes, then Obama came in the eighth round and knocked him down with, surprise, surprise, foreign policy.
It’s not pretty, but it’s elegant in its art.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:42 am ¶
Mr. Noface wrote:
I was pretty bored throughout the debate. This whole election has gotten boring…just swear Obama in already. I did enjoy the “that one” comment because of the shear stupidity of it.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:47 am ¶
Nera wrote:
This debate was terribly boring. So boring that I turned the t.v. off. How sad.
…I did notice that Sen. McCain tends not to look at Sen. Obama. At all! I’ve noticed this in other debates and I wonder if it’s just in my mind or if other people have noticed this.
It doesn’t matter if they’re standing apart or right next to each other. He completely avoids looking at him directly. No eye contact, no open body-language. Nothing. So I actually understand his “that one” comment. In Sen. McCain’s mind, Sen. Obama isn’t worth acknowledging.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:56 am ¶
Tony wrote:
You know, maybe I’m trying to hard to see the bright side but, I honestly think McCain isn’t racist (atleast, not against blacks and mixed folks), and probably thought of “That one” as “That one of us 2 politicians”
That having been said, shouldn’t SOMEONE in his campaign by now have told him that referring to Obama as anything other than either his name or “Senator” is a bad idea?
I mean hell, using his middle name would have come off as less offensive than “That One.”
Seriously, I know people (especially older people) slip and say things that are offensive without meaning to, or understanding that it was offensive, but when you are running for President, shouldn’t someone inform you of how to avoid these pitfalls?
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 2:22 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
Blame the boring questions for a boring debate.
Let’s have someone ask about racial issues for once!
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 2:32 am ¶
jenessa wrote:
It took about 30 minutes before it became obvious that all those who had played Palin Bing-o and Palin drinking games should have held off for this evening’s debates. Holy talking points, Batman. I wish there was a presidential/vice presidential debate. That would make up for the slack of either of the three others, if Obama could debate Palin and McCain could take on Biden. That would be interesting (perhaps even amicable, given how much Biden “loves” McCain).
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 2:36 am ¶
Mary wrote:
Did anyone else notice that Brokaw seemed to only mention the time right after Obama spoke? My husband pointed it out to me after the first three answers or so and it mostly seemed to hold through the whole thing.
I thought so too, although Brokaw did cut McCain off at one point about 3/4 of the way through. I think the problem is that “back-and-forth time” became “take up the entire 2 minutes rebutting the other guy” time, and Brokaw didn’t really ensure parity.
And yeah… “That one.” I was aghast when that happened. In addition to the astonishing disrespect of it, you would think that a guy who got roundly lambasted for being an angry old man in the first debate would at least pretend to show some class in the second. If that was the best McCain could do being fake-nice to somebody, that scares me.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 6:14 am ¶
Mimi wrote:
I did enjoy how Obama took control to force an extra comment in. I like how when McCain asked for the same, Tom said, I will let you have the last word…” in a tone that implied he was talking to a sensitive three year old.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 6:32 am ¶
chi wrote:
@ Lisa — I’m not gonna lie…that’s the ONLY thing I really noticed from this debate — McCain’s incessant blinking. I feel sleepy after awhile. I wonder if that was the point…
YAWN.
To be honest, I thought I had my mind set on who I will vote for. But after last night…not too sure. I should really do more research on the third party candidates…(though I think voting for them would do more harm than good. we’ll still end up with Obama or McCain)
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 7:48 am ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:
“That one”…not even that guy. Even if I give McCain the benefit of the doubt and write it off as a gaffe and not blatant disrespect (for whatever reason), if that’s how he refers to his political opponent, can you imagine how he’ll refer to foreign leaders with whom he doesn’t agree?
Did anyone watch any of the CNN commentary following the debate? David Gergen raised the the race factor while the other pundits tried to tap dance around it…
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 8:05 am ¶
Mary wrote:
I noticed Gergen calling it out too.
I also have to give points to Chris Matthews over on MSNBC – although he is by NO means perfect on race or gender issues – but he has been directly and forcefully calling out the McCain campaign’s decision to resurrect the Bill Ayers thing. I mean he looked into the camera yesterday and directly called it an attempt to distract from the issues by playing on subconscious xenophobia and racism.
Again not that Matthews is free of white privilege, not by a long shot, but I think he is a lot more willing to “go there” than almost all other white mainstream commentators. He also picked up on the possible racial subtext of the “community organizer” bashing that took place at the RNC.
What I’ve also noticed is that Matthews almost never actually uses the word “racism.” He says stuff like “tough on blacks” (which makes me LOL in kind of a horrible way) or “fearful.” And I don’t know if this is a failing to acknowledge the obvious on his part, or if it’s a deliberate attempt to reach people who would shut down immediately if they felt like they were being called the r-word.
Maybe I’m giving him way too much credit here.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 8:32 am ¶
gatamala wrote:
McCain’s whistling and Barack’s attempt to dumb it down….
As for Brokaw, bless his heart but I’d rather dig Tim Russert up and put him in the Pet Sematary than watch Brokaw moderate again.
AE~I knew I wasn’t crazy.
Brendan~watching him jerk around the stage like a robot with dying batteries was
I like you, but hate you for this at the same time.
JR~I felt like both sides stuck mostly to their talking points, which was annoying
YES. I did not appreciate Barack’s backhanded invocation of Godwin’s Law.
jen~I watched the demise of Danity Kane after I got my fill of the debate
Demise? Don’t you have to rise to have a demise?
Lisa~What’s with McCain’s eyes?
He needs those shades old people wear over their glasses.
Tony~Seriously, I know people (especially older people) slip and say things that are offensive without meaning to
My grandma did. She also died of Alzheimers. Haven’t we been down this road before?
jenessa~Palin Bing-o and Palin drinking games
Do you want to be on Intervention? During 04 I had a drinking game involving every G-Dub reference to 9/11 (including euphemisms like ‘things have changed’) . ..bad bad move
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:02 am ¶
Jeff wrote:
Oh, thank you racialicoius! I’ve been concerned that I wasn’t going to be validated in my perception of venom contained in “That one” — the people I watched the debate didn’t seem to perceive it as blatantly racial, but it sounded to me like a page taken from my (openly racist) grandmother’s playbook on how to demean and otherize people of color.
I’ve been pushing for an Obama presidency since his 2004 convention speech, and I realize I’m preaching to the choir in this forum, but, if nothing else, last night’s debate left me more convinced than ever that John McCain is absolutely unfit to hold the office of the President.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:05 am ¶
Jas wrote:
The debate was boring but I’m not sure why so many people expected anything else. Especially once it became clear they weren’t going to go into hardcore attack mode. Due to the time limitations of these debates (especially this one which I REALLY didn’t like) and the sheer severity of the issues it was obvious people were going to be extremely dissapointed if they wanted details or specifics.
They mostly stuck to their talking points as well which wasn’t too surprising. Obama could pretty much afford to since he’s ahead and gaining but McCain really needed something more.
Chris Matthews is funny because I think he’s well intentioned, especially when it comes to racism, but sometimes he just says ridiculously stupid things lol (ie: “Did you notice how un-ethnic Barack sounded tonight?”)
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:29 am ¶
gatamala wrote:
Chris Matthews is funny because I think he’s well intentioned, especially when it comes to racism, but sometimes he just says ridiculously stupid things lol (ie: “Did you notice how un-ethnic Barack sounded tonight?”)
you know what. I think that’s why he was speaking in such a measured tone…
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:41 am ¶
Mary wrote:
but sometimes he just says ridiculously stupid things lol (ie: “Did you notice how un-ethnic Barack sounded tonight?”)
Oh man… Yes, I was blanking on some of Matthews’ dumber statements, and that’s a pretty lulzy one. The other one that just occurred to me is that he likes to describe a diverse crowd as “the many faces of Benetton” (again, WTF). I mean I know what he’s trying to say, but it’s like, oh honey.
Like you said, I think his heart’s in the right place, and in some respect I think it’s refreshing that Matthews seems to err on the side of directness. But yeah, he’s also had quite a few *facepalm* moments.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:48 am ¶
Jamerican Muslimah wrote:
B-O-R-I-N-G! I heard nothing new or profound.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:00 am ¶
jen* wrote:
ok, gatamala – so DK wasn’t actually on top of the world – but mediocrity can have a demise, too.
And it was infinitely more entertaining than the debate. (”Somebody’s gonna tell the truth up in this b****.” — If Tom Brokaw had said that, I wouldn’t have changed the channel.)
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:09 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Jen –
And it was infinitely more entertaining than the debate. (”Somebody’s gonna tell the truth up in this b****.” — If Tom Brokaw had said that, I wouldn’t have changed the channel.)
Cosign!
At this point, the political press corps is a joke. They might as well drop all semblance of professionalism, hire Keith Olbermann and Bill O’Reilly as co-moderators, and have an hour and a half long free for all, with Rachel Maddow & Pat Buchanan running commentary and Donna Brazile writing all the questions.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:15 am ¶
jmn wrote:
@ Latoya
hire Keith Olbermann and Bill O’Reilly as co-moderators, and have an hour and a half long free for all, with Rachel Maddow & Pat Buchanan running commentary and Donna Brazile writing all the questions.
Man, I would even PAY money to see that. It could be like a Pay Per View event. They would make so much money from it that they could finance the bailout.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:36 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@jmn –
Pay per view? We need to throw in a cage then. We’ll have O’Reilly, Olbermann, Obama, and McCain in the cage (Maddow & Buchanan off stage but still able to run to the gates and scream).
You know, I’m inclined to throw in a couple of those foam joust things too, just to keep it interesting. Who would reach for one first? And who would try to convert theirs into an actual weapon?
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:42 am ¶
Winn wrote:
Well, “my friends”, (if he’d said that one more time I was seriously contemplating hurling my TV through the closed window!) as everyone else has mentioned, I was appalled at McCain’s use of the term “that one”. Along with his refusal to make eye contact with or even look at Obama during debates, his apparent distaste for shaking hands and his constant outright lying about Obama’s record and reiteration of the refrain that Obama “just doesn’t understand”, I’m losing my ability to give him the benefit of the doubt. And, as a couple of listeners have pointed out on The Diane Rehm show this morning, his dismissive treatment the African American gentlemen during the debate (someone upthread mentioned the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac comment) doesn’t leave me feeling too magnanimous either.
And yes, that incessant blinking was both distracting and strangely hypnotic. Perhaps it was a debate tactic, like constantly tottering around the stage. Perhaps if people were concerned that McCain might either wander off or, more likely, simply fall off the stage, they would pay less attention to the inaccuracies and inanities coming out of his mouth.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:58 am ¶
Pheagan wrote:
@ Waxghost– complete agreement on Brokaw calling time only on Obama– there was a point where they were really arguing and Obama’s like, seriously, this economy talk is REALLY IMPORTANT– and I was like, yeah, what’s more important, abiding by ridiculous debate rules or getting into a decent appraisal of the tax sitch?
And second all the shock and disgust over That One. Oy.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:04 am ¶
Joseph wrote:
@Latoya
Do you really want to be the black woman who suggested that we throw John McCain *back* into a cage?
I’m just saying…
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:04 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Joseph –
Only if it’s pay per view. I’m thinking less POW and more WWE…but if it’s going to be played like that, I’m happy to be “that one.”
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:16 am ¶
cinco wrote:
The debate did nothing to enlighten the undecided.
McCain seemed to push his invisible walker around the platform all night. He stuttered and at times was incoherent. Obama didnt say anything new. I thought he looked in charge and spoke like a commander in chief. He was clear and unrattled. I didn’t feel confident in McCain.
The ‘that one’ comment was disrespectful, but perhaps I’m sensitive because it sounded like it had a racist intonation behind it. The biggest mistake I feel was the McCain’s urgency to disappear from the area’ as if conceeding to defeat.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:25 am ¶
bertie wrote:
A complete waste of time. I don’t mind Prez debates being boring if they are informative. This one was neither. I learned more from the great Danity Kane debate between Dawn, Aubrey and Puffy. Do we really need a 3rd and final debate–or can we skip it and just replay their various tv commercial and stump speeches.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:56 am ¶
Yvette wrote:
Re: “That one”–Some folks are really quick!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattmay/2923797716/
http://www.cafepress.com/sanedesign.315052267
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 12:07 pm ¶
Fatemeh wrote:
McCain is a dick. Plain and simple.
Imma cosign with everything that’s been said here, about the “that one,” and McCain’s discomfort, and the boringness (punctuated by Tom Brokaw’s circuits shorting out).
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 12:49 pm ¶
Vicky wrote:
Does McCain *ever* look Obama in the eye? Is it a racial thing or just a diss your opponent thing. It appeared he dodged a handshake from him too after the Debate.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 12:49 pm ¶
Lakergrrl wrote:
@Latoya & jmn
Cosign!!! My mom and i were just saying they should sell the debates in a package on cable. At my house debate night is Fight Night, complete with (vegan) hot wings. LOL!!!
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:21 pm ¶
Mary wrote:
Supposedly McCain also had a special hate-on for Mitt Romney back in the Republican primaries. But I never watched those debates so I can’t compare it with how he currently treats Obama. Can anyone else?
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
Princess wrote:
Hello Everyone!
Since I’m just a little bit worn from election political overload, I had intially decided I was not going to tune in to the debate last night, but I watched it anyway.
It was interesting to hear McCain mention tackling healthcare, energy and entitlement reform all at once AND his desire to WIN the war in Iraq while proposing a government spending freeze. This is highly questionable and falls into the that’s incredible nonsense that plagues this election. But of course, Americans aren’t expected to pay attention.
@Vicky
You’re correct, there was no eye contact and McCain shunned Obama’s attempt to shake his hand at the end of the debate.
The “that one” reference resonated: how dare this nonperson get in the mix of the political high rollers and do so successfully at that.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 2:15 pm ¶
robert hunter wrote:
VOTE OBAMA
“THAT ONE”
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 3:15 pm ¶
Will wrote:
@Princess
McCain shunned Obama’s attempt to shake his hand at the end of the debate.
Actually, no, it looks like an honest mis-communication, they had already shaken hands and embraced and McCain wanted Obama to meet his wife
Shaking hands at the end of the debate (the one funny moment when they both blocked the moderators tele-prompter).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K_MKwVBZRY
At the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI0iIOqPGak
Now, I think the that one comment sounded racially tinged to me, or at least extremely dis-respectful and I hate McCain’s (and Palins) guts, dishonesty and willingness to sling mud but the handshake issue was a mis-understanding (you can see both chuckle about it at 18 seconds).
And the not looking at Obama, that one I can’t explain, its just really disturbing.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 4:30 pm ¶
Princess wrote:
@Will
Perhaps the missed handshake while the candidates were standing near the edge of the stage was an honest mis-communication.
Overall though, McCain’s nonverbal communication/body launguage has been mostly negative during this election when he has to take the stage with Obama.
How can one look an opponent in the eye while running a very nasty campaign mainly based on mud slinging, intentional lies and smears?
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 6:24 pm ¶
octogalore wrote:
I found the “that one” comment upsetting as well. Even if inadvertent, he should have corrected for it. Badly done.
Must say, also, that the “robot,” “invisible walker,” and “jerky” comments about McCain above give of a slight waft of ageism/ableism to me. I’m no fan of the guy, but there’s a reason he move stiffly. It cuts down on the legitimacy of the many appropriate critiques to refuse to call out the inappropriate ones.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 7:40 pm ¶
bdsista wrote:
I got all my laundry done, since the TV room is next to the laundry room. Galled by the “That One” comment and yes the McCains seemed to not be at all interested in really interacting with people. I don’t think its ageist to state what you see. McCain looks old because he IS old! They are already saying he has a 1 in 3 chance of dying during his first term and then Crazy Palin gets to select the next Supreme Court Justices!?!?
I will say that Obama looked fine perched on that stool. He is one cool Brotha! Loved the Ebony cover!
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 9:20 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:
I amused myself my looking at the audience; several people looked like they bored as hell.
The debate? We’ve heard it all before, from both sides.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 10:34 pm ¶
octogalore wrote:
Bdista, it’s not ageist to state what you see, but the examples I gave are not examples leading to possible death, but instances of disability that were being made light of.
Posted 08 Oct 2008 at 11:10 pm ¶
Atena wrote:
Cosign w/ octogalore – apparently his arms and trunk are permanently affected by war injuries. That accounts for the robot-ish stiffness and the fact that he can’t raise his arms in a more natural manner. And such injuries rarely improve with age, as far as I understand.
So, while he IS a jerk, it’s not cool to make fun of that.
Posted 09 Oct 2008 at 4:51 am ¶
Brandon wrote:
I don’t want to seem like I’m piling on, but the comments on age bias are really on point. McCain deserves our disdain, but the focus on his age is no better than people who focus on the gender or race of a candidate in their attacks.
Someone wrote “I don’t think its ageist to state what you see.” Replace the word ageist with racist or sexist and imagine some of the horrible circumstances where you might see this defense. You are them moving into some dangerous waters…
Is it different? Yes. But is it THAT different? We should work to combat prejudice in all its forms…
Posted 10 Oct 2008 at 9:27 am ¶
gaetano wrote:
Same old questions.All about economy and forein policies. Same old bullshit answers. what a waste of peoples time.who the hell picks thes commentaters and questions.We the people want to hear about all our problems.hell we all know what the economy is doing and both asses have already told us what they plan to do,and we all know about Iraq,and palistine ,and afganistan and who gives a sh**.We want to know about views on abortion,and riligion,and guns ,and illegal aliens,and every thing else . These questions being asked over and over again are ridiculas.
Posted 15 Oct 2008 at 9:06 am ¶