Trackbacks & Pings

1. Trans Woman of Color Erasure & Objectification « Taking Up Too Much Space on 30 Sep 2008 at 7:23 pm

   […] weird, but in addition to its actual content, this post is laying the groundwork for an analysis of the silence surrounding the recent anti-muslim terror attack in Ohio (see also. h/t to Cheshire Bitten. More of the groundwork will be done in a post to […]

2. If you read one thing today « The Bead Shop on 01 Oct 2008 at 6:03 am

   […] a comment » Make it this (from […]

3. Daughter of the Ring of Fire » Blog Archive » American Terrorism on 01 Oct 2008 at 2:53 pm

   […] in deep self-examination, especially when it poses fundamental questions about ethics and income, has combined with the broader social tendency to disregard crimes against non-white people. Together…, one that reveals a troubling trend of hate pushed by neoconservatives and their ilk. Sphere: […]

4. muslim children gassed in ohio - but where’s the outrage? « Dayton’s Ebony News & Information on 01 Oct 2008 at 4:17 pm

   […] Posted by blaqsage on October 1, 2008 by Special Correspondent Thea C. Lim, originally published at The Shameless BlogOn Friday, September 26, the end of a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West — the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail — were distributed by mail in Ohio, a “chemical irritant” was sprayed through a window of the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton, where 300 people were gathered for a Ramadan prayer service. The room that the chemical was sprayed into was the room where babies and children were being kept while their mothers were engaged in prayers.  Read more… […]

5. Wickedness in a Beautiful World? at Crucial Minutiae - it’s the little things… on 01 Oct 2008 at 4:20 pm

   […] on this story. The Dayton Daily News gave understated coverage, but otherwise, only blogs like Racialicious have covered […]

6. Children Attacked at Mosque, Mainstream Media Stays Silent : The Curvature on 04 Oct 2008 at 12:22 pm

   […] Lim leaves a comment with these important points on her own post at Racialicious: From […]

7. Follow-Ups « The Radical Notion on 04 Oct 2008 at 1:49 pm

   […] other news, the saga of the mosque in Ohio that I wrote about last week continues. I learned from Latoya at Racialicious that, according to the local police, there is no evidence that this was a hate crime: “The […]

Comments

1. Erin wrote:

   This (obvious) hate crime upsets me for several reasons, but the more prominent ones are personal. I grew up in Cincinnati, and one of the things I admired about the school systems there was that they would take groups of kids on field trips to different places of worship in order to educate everyone about world religions. I remember visiting the Islamic Center of Cincinnati–off of I-75, a very prominent location–and loving it. It was beautiful and I was fascinated by how peaceful everyone and everything seemed. I’ve always wanted to go back for another tour now that I’m older.

   All of this is to explain why I feel so saddened by this hate crime in Dayton. It infuriates me that the work of public school teachers and those who encourage tolerance can be completely overshadowed by hate and blatant propaganda. I will keep these children in my thoughts, as well as write a letter to my former school district encouraging them to keep up the field trips to the mosque–children need them now more than ever.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:19 pm ¶

2. Tariq Nelson wrote:

   I think that we should let the police finish investigating before we begin to start assigning blame - especially without evidence.

   I have unfortunately seen a lot of Jew baiting on this matter in other quarters on this matter when in fact there is no evidence that any Jews were involved.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:32 pm ¶

3. Tony wrote:

   Yeah, no reason to believe a DVD that’s anti-Islamic may have provoked a bigot to believe that attacking Muslim children was a good thing.

   And nooses are just pranks, and the swastika is just a symbol of Buddhism.

   Seriously, I mean, I get that civically speaking it’s not enough evidence to get a conviction for a hate crime
   But to deny it possibly was makes me wonder if the sheriff has an alibi for the event.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:38 pm ¶

4. A. wrote:

   Some of those comments in the DKos article really make me sick. Why is it that the white people in the comments don’t feel the need to call out a hate crime for what it is, and instead go back on the “It couldn’t have been a hate crime, why not just an attempt at extortion, etc.”

   This is why I’m cynical of this country and the fact that things are getting better for people of color - because I feel that it’s regressing.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:41 pm ¶

5. Fatemeh wrote:

   Thanks for writing about this, Thea. It makes me physically sick.

   The fact that they don’t think it’s a hate crime is BULLSHIT! It was targeting a specific religious group in a specific religious building during a major religious holiday! How is that NOT a hate crime? Because nobody called the children “ragheads” or spray-painted “terrorist” on the mosque walls?

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:49 pm ¶

6. Crystal wrote:

   Umm…just a heads-up to the Dayton Police, when your perpetrator targets a specific, discrete ethnic group, i.e., an Islam Society building, that’s a hate crime. It is not required that the perpetrator also shout racial epithets. I mean, are you serious?

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 12:49 pm ¶

7. Paz wrote:

   Posted on to my site.
   This is unbelievable. I know that crimes against minorities do not make headlines, but these are children who were gassed!!! The atrocities that people (and the media) get away with baffle me every day.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 1:04 pm ¶

8. Mahsi B. wrote:

   As someone who grew up in Dayton (and still has family there), sadly this doesn’t surprise me. And as for the police saying there’s no evidence of a hate crime- don’t expect any fair treatment on that end- the Dayton police department has issues of their own regarding racial sensitivity, they’re also in trouble for not being inclusive towards black police officers. This is a city where desegregated busing was abolished within the past 5 years. And honestly, don’t expect any outrage from the Dayton area regarding this, it ain’t gonna happen. My experiences living there have led to a low expectation of any sort of fair justice for any non white or non Christian citizens.

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 1:10 pm ¶

9. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

   How fucking macho and “manly” of whoever did this to hurt kids.

   fucking scumbags.

   I swear, people, I am getting so fucking sick of this country. I just fucking want to get the F outta here and go move to Hong Kong. The white privilege is making me so DAMN ANGRY!!!!

   Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶

10. Tonggu Momma wrote:

    How would people perceive this same crime if the location was a Christian church? Or a synagogue?

    It’s an Islamic Society building hosting a prayer service. How is that not a hate crime? Perhaps there isn’t enough evidence to convict the perpetrators of a hate crime, as the law defines it, but to not acknowledge the possibility of it?

    I feel sick to my stomach.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 1:16 pm ¶

11. Asada wrote:

    Im mostly worried about backlash from the muslim community. THe peaceful ones will simply pray, but the anrgy ones will want revenge. Either way, it will contribute to an overall feeling of “unwantedness” and darn…I dont want to be around when it becomes hot.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 1:17 pm ¶

12. Kaonashi wrote:

    Oh my god, this is the most horrible thing I’ve read in a while, and the fact that some asshole would target innocent babies and children for their racism is vulgar as hell.

    I hope they catch the piece of crap who did this.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 2:12 pm ¶

13. chi wrote:

    Unbelievable.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 2:32 pm ¶

14. C-Marsh wrote:

    @ Tonggu Momma

    I’m making an (likely) assumption that the perpertrators were Christian, but Lupe’s American Terrorist sums up the response to this atrocity.

    “now if a Muslim woman strapped with a bomb on a bus with the seconds running give you the jitters?
    just imagine a American-based Christian organization planning to poison water supplies to bring the second-coming quicker”

    It’s only terrorism when it’s them, not us…

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 3:07 pm ¶

15. jvansteppes wrote:

    How can anyone not identify this as a hate crime when the imagery is downright GENOCIDAL?!
    Should the police department go back to history class and redo the lesson on what it means to select and ethnic or religious group and gas them because you intend to inflict death or serious bodily harm?

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 3:27 pm ¶

16. Free wrote:

    What both Dayton newspaper articles fail to mention is that there were Iraqi refugees in the mosque: Hello and welcome to America! Here’s a little thank you gift for all of the sacrifices you’ve made on our behalf.

    From what I’ve heard, Radical Islam’s War Against the West is being released in swing states is to stir-up those fears that Barack Obama is a Muslim. *SIGH*

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 3:30 pm ¶

17. Jess wrote:

    i don’t think anyone was dismissing the possibility of it being a hate crime. I think folks were trying not to run off all half-cocked.

    Yes, a hateful DVD was distributed in Ohio. An attack on a mosque happened. They don’t necessarily follow each other, as the perpetrator could have thought of this long before the DVD was produced. The guy who did it may have just wanted to mess with people in a horrific way and hate muslims whether the DVD came out or not.

    The Dayton cops said they didn’t find any chemicals, which says to me it was something household that might not show up because it isn’t tested for (that’s a safer assumption than that it was something exotic).

    Before you all jump on me, I am not saying it was OK, or that we shouldn’t be outraged about these kinds of attacks. I am very conscious that Muslims are not in the best position in the U.S.

    But we all should be thinking carefully here. Was the person who did it connected to a racist group? Was the person who did it some nutter who saw Hitler in his corn flakes or was he thinking this through? Was he just a jerky racist tool who had a free hour?

    Do I think this was a hate crime? Honestly, the linked articles and posts just don’t give me enough to go on. Really, though I think eventually you could probably come up with enough evidence to charge someone with that, maybe.

    This doesn’t excuse it, doesn’t alter the fact that it is tougher for people of color to get justice sometimes and doesn’t alter the fact that this should be condemned.

    I’ve seen attacks on synagogues, for instance. I wouldn’t make the dumb excuse about Buddhism and swastikas, but there is a vast difference between the bunch of yahoos who deface a synagogue because they are drunk and it is nearby and the guys who paint swastikas and throw incendiaries. The first is people being stupid asshats and trying to shock. The latter is a hate crime.

    The facts matter, at least to me. Call me cold and heartless, but fear and anger are not our friends right now. The person who did this may want you to react without thinking — don’t do them the favor.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 4:42 pm ¶

18. Fatemeh wrote:

    @ Asada: what the hell? “THe peaceful ones will simply pray, but the anrgy ones will want revenge.”

    Just what are you trying to say here?

    Can’t somebody be angry and peaceful? I’m mad as hell about this, but I’m not going to exact “revenge” (which has MAJOR ominous and terrorist overtones, thankyouverymuch).

    I want justice. And so you know what I’m gonna do? I’m gonna pray. And I’m gonna write about this wherever I have a voice, spread the word about how fucked up this is. I’m gonna write the Dayton police department.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 4:50 pm ¶

19. nati wrote:

    “Asada” is the same person that wrote that Pinochet didn’t seem that bad … troll?

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 5:21 pm ¶

20. nechama wrote:

    @ Jess - I don’t undertand what the actual difference is between people being “asshats” and a hate crime in your example. I grew up Jewish in rural Ohio and when we arrived at our synagogue and saw the front door scratched up with yet another swastika, we didn’t care WHO did it or WHY or HOW, we were just angry and sad and scared. The little girl who got sprayed in the face probably didn’t care if the man who sprayed her was connected to a hate group or just plain crazy - she was specifically attacked through the window of her mosque during Ramadan and was in pain.
    Regardless of the perpetrator’s intentions, this is a hate crime! And we ARE ALLOWED to react with anger - not violent or irrational anger, but children were just attacked! we should be mad!!

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 5:38 pm ¶

21. Gothic Guera wrote:

    I felt sick when I read this, why kids? they didn’t anything, why should we punish the victims? I wouldn’t be surprised if the people who did this got away scott(spelling?) free. This is why I do not trust major American media.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 6:02 pm ¶

22. Sobia wrote:

    Ditto to Fatemeh! I’m an angry AND peaceful Muslim.

    @ Jess:
    WTF? How can this NOT be a hate crime? What definition of hate crime are you using to make your judgments?

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 6:18 pm ¶

23. Jehanzeb wrote:

    Thank you so much for posting this, Latoya. And thank you, Thea C. Lim, for writing it. As you pointed out, no major North American news media bothered to report this. That says a lot about how selective the media is.

    You know what’s really disturbing? When people waste all their time speculating and arguing whether or not this was a hate crime — OF COURSE it was a HATE CRIME, it’s OBVIOUS. Arguing against it is a pathetic attempt to divert attention to something else. It’s like what happened in Rwanda — the U.S. was too busy arguing about whether or not there was a genocide going on. WHO CARES what you call it — it’s an attack against a group of people in their place of worship on their HOLIDAY! What more do you need to know?

    @ Asada — wow, thanks for stereotyping us! What a way to ascribe certain expectations upon us based on lousy generalizations. I find it insulting how you don’t even bother to acknowledge how much of a crime this was, but instead, you have the nerve to reinforce the SAME STEREOTYPES that REINFORCE this kind of behavior.

    It’s always about YOUR security, right? Forget how stereotypes and negative sentiments towards Muslims makes a lot of Muslim-Americans uneasy about their religious identities. Forget how hate crimes have escalated ANNUALLY after 9/11. Forget the innocent Muslim-Americans who have been SHOT and KILLED thanks to hate crimes.

    I’ve experienced Islamophobia first-hand, but I don’t generalize and stereotype Americans. I treat everyone on an INDIVIDUAL basis. What you’re doing is lumping all of us under ONE category, which subsequently strips us of our individuality. You don’t see individuals. You see stereotypes.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 7:42 pm ¶

24. jed wrote:

    Adding to what Jess wrote, the perpetrator could have been another muslim.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 7:55 pm ¶

25. Tariq Nelson wrote:

    @ Jess

    I agree with you 100%

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 8:23 pm ¶

26. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Jess

    From Wikipedia:

    “Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group…”

    I don’t think it matters what the intention of the perpetrator was. If you commit a crime against a group of people because they belong to that group, it’s a hate crime - whether you are doing so because you are a bigot or just because you are trying to be shocking.

    In the same way, whether or not the attack had anything to do with the DVD, it’s still an act of Islamophobia. I think the fact that it happened just after teh DVDs were distributed simply tells us a lot about the situation for Muslims today in America.

    @ Fatemeh

    Co-sign!

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 8:40 pm ¶

27. NancyP wrote:

    Sickos. Timothy McVeighs.

    The likeliest assumption is that the perp is a Christian or non-believer, just because these are the overwhelming majority of the population in the area. The fact that a nursery was involved would be strongly against any local Muslim being involved - they would know the layout of the facility. Christian teenagers sometimes vandalize churches out of a sense of rebellion or spite, but they tend to break windows or paint rude words on the outside of the building, they don’t attack kids (unless they have truly flipped, like the 21 year old from Colorado Springs who shot up the parking lot of Haggard’s megachurch, possibly in reaction to being mistreated and rejected and exorcised unwillingly by parents and church). I don’t hear of sectarian violence in US Muslim population. So, I would eliminate Muslims as likely suspects. NRI Hindus aren’t into the India-for-Hindus movement, and there aren’t many Hindus in Dayton area.

    Dayton region and whole southwest corner of Ohio is home to several megachurches of the dominionist type, often obsessed with End Times theology (Left Behind, and all that). One of the region’s megachurch pastors, Rod Parsley, has been trying to become a political broker on the level of Dobson. The political dominionist Christians tend to go for gays, then abortion, then Muslims, as the hot-button issue to get their congregations voting for the Republican candidate. What with gay marriage amendments being passed and therefore taking that scare issue out of circulation, and with abortion being a matter for the courts at present (and having the disadvantage that the fundagelical women are having abortions at the same rate as the general public, therefore, abolition means personal effects), the Muslims are a handy scare issue - brown AND non-Christian AND non-American or first/second generation American AND descended from same (large) region as the genuine bad guys AND less likely to wear out as an issue.

    There are some white supremacist groups in Ohio, membership not very numerous.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 9:51 pm ¶

28. Grandpa Dinosaur wrote:

    As a Canadian Woman of colour I’ve been attacked more than seven times, sometimes by groups of young White men. I’m strong enough to make them sorry and send them packing, but I know other women aren’t and I see myself as lucky.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 9:54 pm ¶

29. NancyP wrote:

    Oh yes, I do consider it to be a hate crime. Any attack against a church, synagogue, mosque, etc is a hate crime unless it can be proven to involve insurance fraud by the owner (rented storefront churches) or personal revenge against the pastor, rabbi, imam, etc by a disgruntled family member or competitor.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 9:55 pm ¶

30. Logan wrote:

    I lived in Ohio most of my life before coming out to Beijing about a month back here. I can honestly say this doesn’t surprise me a bit. While I’ve only lived in Cleveland and Kent and never really in South-west Ohio, I’ve heard the horror stories of Dayton and southern Ohio from friends I’ve met and the racial intolerance there. I actually passed this on to two of my friends back in Ohio who I know would take action or make sure to inform people about it (one’s studying to be a lawyer in Columbus, one is a ultra-liberal activist in Kent), as I feel they might be able to do something about it back home, or at least instigate enough of an issue stateside.a

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 9:57 pm ¶

31. Abu Sinan wrote:

    I dont think enough evidence is there to say that it was a hate crime, although it is entirely likely.

    As a Muslim, I’d rather wait until the facts are in. It bothers me that elements in our community have already used this as an excuse to head off on their own tantrums of hate, especially against Jews.

    It is a bit more than hypocritical for some to complain about a “hate crime” and then lay into the Jewish community with hate filled invectives and put the blame at their feet without the slightest bit of proof.

    I wish, for once, that something like this would bring out the best in the Muslim community, not the worst as it always seems to do.

    Hate and violence is a real fear in our community. The security guards at the mosque I attend sometimes during Ramadan now wear open and displayed firearms to discourage attacks against worshippers. This is the same mosque that saw people burn school buses in their parking lot.

    Sad.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 10:16 pm ¶

32. Daniel wrote:

    This is very horrible. To attack children is one of the worst crimes, to hurt someone at that point in their lifetimes is going to have an effect later on, whether it’s racists, pedophiles, abusers, or the random acts of crime committed by anybody.
    I don’t understand how this could not have been big news in the country?
    Economy and Elections are important, but isn’t human social relations such as these be the same level?

    On another point, prior to this event, I have heard about the racial environment in Ohio, but also other Midwestern states as well. This is a little surprise for me since I’m from a small city bordering the South. My hometown has racially targeted crime too but I don’t know if it’s gotten to this level before. However, like others stated, I would wait until more evidence is collected, therefore making it a bigger case to charged these criminals.

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 10:57 pm ¶

33. Juan wrote:

    I love how we need 100,000,000,001 signs of proof before it can be called a hate crime, let alone for ’some people’ to accept, let alone engage, the shitty behavior and actions of ’some people.’

    *eyes roll*

    Posted 30 Sep 2008 at 11:10 pm ¶

34. Jehanzeb wrote:

    Abu Sinan,

    This was a crime against a specific group of people in their place of worship and on their religious holiday. What else do you need to know? It’s a hate crime, and as I mentioned above, can we please stop arguing about whether or not it’s a “hate crime?”

    When I was fired from my job because a customer called me a “terrorist,” I filed a report to the police, and the police said it was NOT A BIASED INCIDENT.

    What other proof did they need to validate that what I went through was a biased incident?? You think the lady would have called me a “terrorist” if I was white???

    The police are ALWAYS reluctant to reporting a hate crime because they KNOW it reflects a particular image of their society. If this happened to a Church or Synagogue, the newspapers would NOT hesitate in calling it a hate crime.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 1:10 am ¶

35. Tariq Nelson wrote:

    How is the Muslim community in Dayton supposed to pursue hate crime charges with no evidence of such a crime? No one is DENYING that it MIGHT be a hate crime, but to jump to that conclusion based on no facts is a stretch. Some - as I mentioned in my first comments above - are even taking the opportunity to blame Jews for this. Is there an iota of evidence that Jews (or anyone else for that matter) is involved?

    We all want justice, but let’s be prudent and not shoot blame around.

    I can also tell you that black churches ARE defaced from time to time, and they are NOT always called a hate crime - when there is no evidence to suggest that it is.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 7:27 am ¶

36. atlasien wrote:

    I think this was probably a hate crime, but there is a possibility it wasn’t… perhaps something weirdly motiveless, like the Bibb County Alabama church burnings.

    But speculations that it’s a hate crime are pretty well-founded. It really does seem likely.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 8:11 am ¶

37. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Mod Note

    A couple reminders to everyone on this thread.

    1. The original post is about the lack of media coverage that occurred around this event. I added in the no hate crime link after visiting Thea’s original link, which had the update prominently displayed at the top of the page.

    2. You can agree or disagree whether or not this is a hate crime, but there is no such thing as “playing the victim card” in these kinds of conversations. Ditto looking for “real” hate crimes. For the purposes of these boards, if we put it on the table, it is a real issue, and even if you don’t agree, that view point will be respected.

    3. As always, if you aren’t providing value to the conversation, I will delete your comment.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 9:58 am ¶

38. Shelby wrote:

    Um. What the fuck.

    Definitions of hate crimes aside…
    Can we be angry that the mass media isn’t covering this? That the general population doesn’t seem to care too much about violence against Muslims (even children!)?
    Maybe it wasn’t a Hate Crime ™ but it certainly was a crime that came from a place of hate. And I think it’s everyone’s DUTY to be outraged about this.
    Anger is good. Anger can be a productive tool. I hope there is a “backlash.” A backlash against racist, islamaphobic media and police and neighbors and politicians. A backlash that promotes community building, activism, the spread of knowledge, compassion…
    Why are white people (especially the American, Christian ones) the only people whose lives matter? I am so SICK of this shit.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 10:22 am ¶

39. Eva wrote:

    I read about this online a few days ago.

    If I was not online I never would have heard about it. It is a shame that women and children of color are not valued in the USA.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 11:11 am ¶

40. Jehanzeb wrote:

    Tariq Nelson,

    You don’t get it.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 11:48 am ¶

41. Joseph wrote:

    @Tariq Nelson
    I appreciate what you are saying. It is good that you are alerting us to the way that some are using this horrible incident as a way to foment hatred between Muslims and Jews. But as far as I can tell no one on this thread is doing that. If there are other threads in the blogosphere that are spreading such hysterical stereotypes then I appreciate hearing about them. But I don’t want concern about such over-reactions to take the place of a valuable outlet for our rage over this event.

    Yes, it may have been a random incident. And yes, it may be an incredible coincidence that the Obsession video was distributed in this area directly before the attack on the Mosque. Anything is possible. But, as you well know, given the reality for Arabs (who may not all be Muslim) and Muslims (who may not all be Arab) in the United States since 9/11, it certainly does seem likely.

    Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that a similar attack on a non-Muslim place of worship would be treated differently in the press. Whether this event is classed as a hate crime or not the attack happened and the overwhelming silence from the mainstream media is repulsive. I would like to be able to say that I am sickened by that.

    @Fatemeh
    #18 CO-SIGN.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 12:01 pm ¶

42. Asada wrote:

    great , I’ve got to clear my name…..

    One, I am not a troll, but I refuse to sugar coat what I say and I will not bend over backwards to loose the meaning of what I say to “sanitize” it.

    @ Fatemeh.
    What Im concerned about are those who have no interest in being angry AND peaceful. I am not saying this is the majority of muslims and I realize most want peaceful justice for this crime.

    @nati,
    read my comments over. I NEVER said pinochette was not bad. What I read gave him a sanitized history, that contradicted with what I had heard about him. My mistake for doing little re search , what I read did not go into the brutality of his dictatorship. I then asked for more information, and I got it.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 1:04 pm ¶

43. Jess wrote:

    @nechama

    By definition with a hate crime you are ascribing motive. Until you have some idea what that is you can’t say. That doesn’t mean you have to read minds. But it does mean you have to step back until the facts are in.

    No, it’s not fair. It sucks that marginalized communities have to prove more and be twice as good and all that jazz. But right now that’s the way it is, and it will not change tomorrow however much we might like it to.

    Yes, people were badly frightened byt this. That doesn’t make it a hate crime or a terrorist attack or anything else except a horrific piece of work by an uncaring bastard.

    The facts aren’t in and if they don’t matter to you what makes you any better? That you’re on the “right” side? When it comes to investigating crimes, the answer has to be no. Especially when investigating crimes against a community that is marginalized.

    I’ve seen drunken kids do things that were just wrong and silly, but not hate crimes by any reasonable definition.

    For instance. Like knocking over gravestones in a Jewish cemetery. Was it a hate crime? No, if the cemetery happened to be close by, and they’d have hit the Catholic ones if it was closer by and they could have staggered that far.

    The hate crime would be if they said “Skip these stones, where are the Jewish ones?”

    That’s the difference. And if you are going to throw around the term “hate crime” motive matters a whole lot.

    I’m not saying it was definitely not a hate crime. I’m saying nobody here knows. Until someone references more facts, I can’t decide if it was or not. Motive of the person doing it is a big one, and there are plenty of ways you could demonstrate it without his/her being a member of a racist group or having Nazi literature around.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 2:15 pm ¶

44. L. wrote:

    Could someone please explain to me why considering this act to be a hate crime is akin to tossing around blame? Especially if there is currently no one to blame (save those irrationally blaming Jews). Also, where does one draw the line with intent in hate crimes? I’m not being sarcastic or drumming up drama or what-have-you, I’m genuinely confused by that argument and don’t know much about the legalities of hate crimes?

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 2:59 pm ¶

45. L. wrote:

    Also, what constitutes “evidence” in a hate crime? The only sure form of evidence that I can think of is if there is a vocal or written statement of hate as motivation by the criminal, and maybe I’m giving criminals too much credit, but unless there is some sort of group behind it (KKK, etc…) or the criminal was unknowingly caught stating the intent, I wouldn’t think too many individuals would readily admit to it if the legal implications are more serious.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 3:10 pm ¶

46. gatamala wrote:

    Actually L, your confusion is warranted as the debate over the elements and purpose of the hate crime is a legal issue itself.

    The girl was watching children …noticed two men standing outside a basement window about 9:40 p.m., according to police.

    One of the men then sprayed something through the open window and into the girl’s face from a white can with a red top, according to a police report. The girl said she immediately felt burning on her face and felt “sick to her stomach,” the report stated.

    Other children and a woman in the room felt affects from the chemical and the mosque was evacuated.

    “The men didn’t say anything to her (before she was sprayed),” Biehl said. “There was nothing left at the scene or anything that makes us believe this is a biased crime.”

    HAZMAT crews called to the scene started testing for chemicals less than 20 minutes after a member of the mosque called 911, team coordinator Denny Bristow said.

    “Whatever chemical was released it dissipated too quickly for us to determine what it was,” Bristow said. “We can test for about 130 to 140 chemicals, including pepper spray, and all our tests came back negative.”

    Bristow said there were no chemicals found on the 10-year-old girl.

    A few of the 300 people celebrating the last 10 days of Ramadan with dinner and a prayer session were treated for eye irritation at the scene.

    For the cop and the legal system’s purposes, you need evidence of motive (by reason of). OH’s Ethnic intimidation includes: race, color, religion, or national origin. Even though we can surmise why, they still need more. Hanging out a mosque…at night…with a spray can…that was NOT paint.

    The people at least could be charged with desecration (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2927.11).

    Ethnic intimidation is an aggravating factor that ratchets up the underlying offense (perhaps assault)(http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2927.12).

    My thing is this, I know police work isn’t all Wire or CSI, but would it be too much to ask the Dayton cops to put boots to the ground and check out Home Depot?

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 3:44 pm ¶

47. LaurynX wrote:

    I’m glad there is discussion about this disgusting intolerance in the Midwest. People like to paint the South as the hate boogie-man of the country. As if folks in the north, midwest, and west are some how freaking enlightened by virtue of living there.

    This is the insidious nature of hate today…by society acting as if it doesn’t exist.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 5:00 pm ¶

48. NancyP wrote:

    1. LaurynX and others: bookwhoring, and it isn’t even my book:

    Sundown Towns: A Hidden Dimension of American Racism by James W. Loewen . 2006

    looks at history of racial exclusion and violence to achieve same, concentrating on Illinois, Indiana, northern Arkansas, Missouri. If you are white and from the Midwest, or non-white and have never lived in the Midwest, the book is an eye-opener, and explains a lot .

    2. “News” is now infotainment, geared to the “favorable demographics” desired by advertisers. To me, this was important to report. Many newspaper and TV news consumers would rather hear about sports or celebrities or are focused on the housing and banking crash to the exclusion of all else.

    Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 10:28 pm ¶

49. ieishah wrote:

    @jed (and jess)

    the burden of proof should be on the perpetrators to explain how this ISN’T a hate crime.

    it had to have been intended for muslims, being a mosque and all!! otherwise why not gas a supermarket or movie theater?

    imagine someone spraying gas into a hair salon on guy r. brewer on a saturday morning, and then saying he didn’t intend to hurt any black women.

    i mean, y’all do realize that it could be a hate crime even if the perpetrator is muslim?

    racism and misogyny are just like race and gender–constructions–and any of us can ‘take on’ qualities and identities, perpetrate offenses and commit crimes the end results of which can (by their very elements) be defined as misogyny even if you’re a woman, racism even if you ‘identify’ with that race etc.

    shit, get thee to limewire and download ’self destruction’ immediately!

    Posted 02 Oct 2008 at 9:32 am ¶

50. Jess wrote:

    @ieishah–

    That’s the difference between self-deconstruction and a real crime investigation. Look, you can get into power relations and all that jazz in an essay on race relations, but when it comes to real stuff the burden is on the state to prove a crime and to prove motive. In fact, you can’t logically prove anything isn’t a hate crime if an altercation happens between two people of different backgrounds, using the method you’ve described. Is it a hate crime if a black guy robs a store in a white neighborhood? I hope not.

    In a fair world it wouldn’t be that way, we’d always know motive and we’d be psychics Life ain’t fair.

    Now, as it is, there is little to go on with motive. Is it a hate crime if the guy was a schizophrenic listening to voices in his/her head? That’s a possibility. No jumping the gun until we know.

    @gatamala– i have covered the odd police investigation in my time. A really, really large number of times people get picked up and just cop to it (or rather, the cops have enough to make it really obvious that someone is lying). Going to trial for anything other than a class A felony is really not that common.

    And yeah, you could go to Home Depot. “Hi, did anyone buy a spraycan with a red top recently?” Answer: “What kind of stuff was it, we have 2,00 different brands here of stuff that sprays and sell 100 cans a day.” That wouldn’t be terribly helpful. They could have bought the thing years ago for all anyone knows. There are like 200 hardware stores in the area. And police don’t have infinite manpower — it ain’t like TV at all.

    Odds are this one will go unsolved, unless someone comes forward. That doesn’t mean the police are all sitting around hating on Muslims or don’t care. I’m aware of indifference to people of color’s concerns in police departments, but that doesn’t mean that every case is like that, either.

    Posted 02 Oct 2008 at 1:41 pm ¶

51. SolShine7 wrote:

    That’s horrible! And it’s a shame that I haven’t one bit of information about this until now.

    Posted 02 Oct 2008 at 6:47 pm ¶

52. Rchoudh wrote:

    It’s very frightening to hear of such a thing happening. Hopefully this incident won’t repeat itself or worsen anywhere else to anyone else. I’m wondering if maybe the media didn’t bother covering it because it wasn’t “sensational” enough. Since no deaths or serious injuries occurred thank God the media didn’t see it fit for reporting.

    Posted 03 Oct 2008 at 1:12 am ¶

Post a Comment