Cultural Appropriation: Homage or Insult?

by Guest Contributor Tami, originally published at What Tami Said

Discussions about American Apparel’s new Afrika line of clothing on this blog, Feministing and Racialicious sparked some confusion among people who wondered “What’s so wrong with being inspired by another culture?” Nothing, really. But “inspiration” drawn from a historically oppressed culture comes with a tangle of baggage born of generations of marginalization and bias.

It’s all about the oppression

From Wikipedia:

Cultural appropriation is the adoption of some specific elements of one culture by a different cultural group. It denotes acculturation or assimilation, but often connotes a negative view towards acculturation from a minority culture by a dominant culture.[1][2] It can include the introduction of forms of dress or personal adornment, music and art, religion, language, or social behavior. These elements, once removed from their indigenous cultural contexts, may take on meanings that are significantly divergent from, or merely less nuanced than, those they originally held. Or, they may be stripped of meaning altogether.

The term cultural appropriation can have a negative connotation. It generally is applied when the subject culture is a minority culture or somehow subordinate in social, political, economic, or military status to the appropriating culture; or, when there are other issues involved, such as a history of ethnic or racial conflict between the two groups.Cultural and racial theorist, George Lipsitz, outlined this concept of cultural appropriation in his seminal term “strategic anti-essentialism”. Strategic anti-essentialism is defined as the calculated use of a cultural form, outside of your own, to define yourself or your group. Strategic anti-essentialism can be seen both in minority cultures and majority cultures, and are not confined to only the appropriation of the other. For example, the American band Redbone, comprised of founding members of Mexican heritage, essentialized their group as belonging to the
Native American tradition, and are known for their famous songs in support of the American Indian Movement “We Were All Wounded at Wounded Knee” and “Custer Had It Coming”. However, as Lipsitz argues, when the majority culture attempts to strategically anti-essentialize themselves by appropriating a minority culture, they must take great care to recognize the specific socio-historical circumstances and significance of these cultural forms so as not the perpetuate the already existing, majority vs. minority, unequal power relations.

In other words: It’s the oppression, stupid.

A Japanese teen wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the logo of a big American company is not the same as Madonna sporting a bindi as part of her latest reinvention. The difference is history and power. Colonization has made Western Anglo culture supreme–powerful and coveted. It is understood in its diversity and nuance as other cultures can only hope to be. Ignorance of culture that is a burden to Asians, African and indigenous peoples, is unknown to most European descendants or at least lacks the same negative impact.

It matters who is doing the appropriating. If a dominant culture fancies some random element (a mode of dress, a manner of speaking, a style of music) of my culture interesting or exotic, but otherwise disdains my being and seeks to marginalize me, it is surely an insult.

She loves me; she loves me not

I was thinking about this while reading Daphne A. Brooks’ article on Amy Winehouse in this week’s issue of The Nation. In “Tainted Love,” Brooks writes about the Winehouse sound that I found so compelling on the artist’s two releases:

Black women are everywhere and nowhere in Winehouse’s work. Their extraordinary craft as virtuosic vocalists is the pulse of Back to Black, an album on which Winehouse mixes and matches the vocalizing of 1940s jazz divas and 1990s neo-soul queens in equal measure. Piling on a motley array of personas, she summons the elegance of Etta “At Last” James alongside roughneck, round-the-way allusions to pub crawls and Brixton nightlife, as well as standard pop women’s melancholic confessionals about the evils of “stupid men.” What holds it all together is her slinky contralto and shrewd ability to cut and mix ’60s R&B and Ronnie Spector Wall of Sound “blues pop” vocals with the ghostly remnants of hip-hop neo-soul’s last great hope, Lauryn Hill. Who needs black female singers in the flesh when Winehouse can crank out their sound at the drop of a hat?

and…

Last March, New Yorker pop critic Sasha Frere-Jones wrote that Winehouse’s inflections and phonemes don’t add up to any known style.” Her “mush-mouthed” phrasings on tracks such as “You Know I’m No Good” are, he wrote, her “real innovation,” a “Winehouse signature” that stresses linguistic distortion and sounds heavy on the wine. This, to some, is the sonic allure of Amy Winehouse: her absolutely inscrutable delivery seemingly sets her apart from the legions of white artists who’ve hopped on the Don Cornelius soul train to find their niche.

Let’s be real. These “mush-mouthed” phrasings are anything but new. Winehouse is drawing on a known style that’s a hundred years old, rooted in a tradition of female minstrelsy. Think of the oft-overlooked blues recording pioneer Mamie Smith, the artist who, with songwriter Perry Bradford, laid down the first-ever blues recording by an African-American vocalist, “Crazy Blues,” in 1920. Mamie Smith is hardly an iconic figure like Ma Rainey and Bessie Smith. Her rep as “a vaudeville chanteuse” rather than a juke-joint vet all but guarantees her exclusion from the traditional blues canon. But it’s this background that enabled Smith to draw on a range of styles crafted in part from watching and listening to white female performers like Sophie Tucker and, eventually, Mae West–white women who, as theater scholar Jayna Brown has written, often learned to “perform blackness” from the women who worked for them. It goes to show that there were plenty of women, black and white, who benefited from the minstrel craze.

A black person might feel flattered at what appears to be Winehouse’s deep appreciation for “race music.” One might be grateful that the pop artist seeks inspiration frm African American culture and pays tribute through her style to too-easily forgotten women like Ma Rainey and Mamie Smith. I might feel that Winehouse was executing an homage to my culture, had the addled chanteuse not been caught on video singing racist slurs to the melody of the kids’ rhyme “Head and Shoulders, Knees and Toes.”

So, what to think of Winehouse’s appropriation in that light? It seems that a love of pulsing beats and from-the-gut singing does not translate into love and respect for the people that birthed the genre.

Ethnicity sanitized for your protection

Even if Winehouse had never revealed her prejudice, should black folks be glad that white artists are able to appropriate music rooted in the African diaspora and the black American experience, tone down the soul, market it behind a paler face and find the fame that eludes similar artists of color?

Consider Sharon Jones, the 52-year-old singer who usually fronts The Dap Kings, the band that has backed Winehouse. Jones and The Dap Kings “are widely thought to be spearheads of a revivalist movement that aims to capture the essence of funk/soul music as it was at its height in the mid-1960s to mid-1970s.” Curiously though, after three albums, Jones’ retro belting has earned her cult fame but none of Winehouse’s success. Thin, young, white and tragic sells so much better than dark, plump and middle-aged.

There is a long history of of white musicians being inspired by black music and finding fame with an “exotic” but safer sound, while their black muses languished in obscurity. Without diminishing the impact of artists like Elvis and The Rolling Stones on the popular music scene, surely it is clear that they benefited from a culture that would never allow a bluesman like Robert Johnson to gain mainstream prominence. The fresh sounds that electrified rock audiences weren’t really so fresh, just appropriated from an artist and culture made invisible by racism.


There’s the rub

What’s so wrong with being inspired by another culture? I’m not sure how to answer, because borrowing from a historically oppressed culture is not as simple as some would want it to be. Fair or not, there are hundreds of years of meaning behind that faux African print dress, that Motown-inspired tune and the silent Harajuku posse. I haven’t even touched on the stickiness of appropriating religious items and culture. (With Halloween on the way, we’ll all have a great opportunity to witness all the ways Americans “pay homage to” the West African religion of Voudou.) For many people of color, it’s nearly impossible to unhook what the mainstream believes is harmless cultural borrowing from the broader experience and history of our people. “Harmless” is really in the eye of the beholder.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Negrass « Bloody Show on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:21 pm

    […] been doing a lot of thinking about my various identities in relationship to the music I listen to, prompted in part by recent posts on Racialicious, a blog I read […]

Comments

  1. KuriusJurge612 wrote:

    See Eminem, Vanilla Ice, Justin Timberlake, etc.

  2. lxy wrote:

    A similar discussion of White pop cultural appropriation of the martial arts is found here:

    http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2008/09/bad-read-the-ninja-handbook.html

  3. C-Marsh wrote:

    I think Eminem may be in the clear here. I think he is one that truly appreciates the Hip-Hop culture and has even spoken about his privilege in the Hip Hop Game. In “White America” he breaks down how his race allowed him to sell so many records.

    “Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself, if they were brown Shady lose, Shady sits on the shelf
    but Shady’s cute, Shady knew Shady’s dimples would help, make ladies swoon baby, ooh baby! Look at my sales
    Lets do the math, If I was black I would’ve sold half, I ain’t have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that”

    http://www.loglar.com/song.php?id=10618

  4. GA wrote:

    this just makes me think of the time a white friend of mine and i were listening to amy winehouse, and she lamented the fact that amy winehouse had more soul than any of the black female r&b singers who were around. and this girl doesn’t even listen to r&b, so yeah. i’m still mad over that.

  5. CVT wrote:

    As a bi-racial (white/Chinese) American, I’ve thought about this topic a lot.

    So many thoughts, in fact, that I will save comment space on this thread by just linking to my own blog on the topic:

    http://choptensils.blogspot.com/2008/08/on-cultural-appropriation.html

  6. A.D. Nix wrote:

    I’ve been trying to make this point about Winehouse to my many fawning friends (white and non but mostly white) but lack the eloquence. For those that could not help but fawn over the exquisite playing of the Dap Kings I always point out the existence of Sharon Jones (which I shouldn’t have to!). Isn’t that suspicious enough? Isn’t that enough to, you know, unsettle? No. Never enough. It’s mere coincidence. And if Sharon were as good, she would be as famous. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Right.

    As for what’s happening at Feministing right now with the ‘Afrika’ business . . . I’ve said “I give up” so many times. So many times. And I’m saying it again. The arguments being made there as to the neutrality and good-natured okay-ness of what AA is doing are infuriating. All of this “stop crying wolf or we’ll stop listening” business . . . enough.

    It’s always everything but the burden, isn’t it? All the cultures of the world are deemed available for playing dress-up, for “flavorful” masquerade - although only some seem to make the cut (did AA consider a “Sami” line? Probably not). It’s gross self-exotification and another opportunity for erasure. Real Africans with their real African problems need not be present. We have bastardized versions of your “prints” instead. And they’re great! Thanks. Our “thinking of Africa” quota is complete.

    Via tube dress.

    Who could possibly find anything wrong with that?

  7. Ephraim wrote:

    If colonization is primarily about the colonizers extracting resources from the colonized. It seems to me that cultural (mis)appropriation is simply what happens when all the material and human resources have been used up or rendered unprofitable. The colonial powers or their descendants (corporations) turn to cultural resources instead. And given that humans seems to be limitlessly creative, even under the most oppressive circumstances, that’s probably a more sustainable option.

  8. gatamala wrote:

    *terrorist fist jab*

    SHARON JONES!!!! Fuck neo she is soul. Horns, harmony and that voice.

    Thin, young, white and tragic sells so much better than dark, plump and middle-aged.

    Would Martha and the Vandellas even get a record deal in these times? Estelle is about the only dark-skinned chick out there.

    This is tricky. On one hand I’m flattered when I hear artists discuss their Black American influences. I love VH1 Classic’s history of music shows. The montage of artists shows a large measure of respect and understanding that there are people behind it.

    I get that from Joplin, the Stones or Clapton. I don’t get that from Winehouse.

    I just can’t go apeshit over a woman that can’t hang with the real soul singers and looks like a raggedy imitation of old family photos and the Ronettes.

    If an artist is going to utilize another cultures elements-or flat out imitate like Winehouse- he/she must present it to the audience as such and educate them. Context is everything.

  9. Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:

    RE: Post #1 - “See Eminem, Vanilla Ice, Justin Timberlake, etc.”

    That seems to be a grand oversimplification lacking an explanation.

    I definitely think that Vanilla Ice stands out as someone who “stole” from the culture. Fabricating a storyline wherein you claim to be “from the hood” is a sure way to be accused of cultural thievery.

    However, I don’t think the mere fact that a white artist performs music that was created (or made popular) by a certain group automatically results in that white artist appropriating a culture.

    As stated above in the post: “Cultural appropriation is the adoption of some specific elements of one culture by a different cultural group.” Hip-Hop is a culture. (Pleezbeeleevit.) Individuals such as Vanilla Ice were not truly a part of that culture and tried to appropriate it. On the other hand individuals such as Eminem, MC Serch, Rick Rubin, R.A. The Rugged Man, and Brother Ali were already a part of the cultural group.

  10. thenderson wrote:

    Well, I don’t think artists like Amy Winehouse, Joss Stone, Justin Timberlake,etc are purposley stealing or appropriating black culture by singing R&B music; I think they see themselves as just singing the music that they love. The real problem is the record companies who market them in a way that offends some people. If a white person likes R&B music or hip hop should they not perform it just because they are afraid of being accused of culture theft? I understand the history of cultural appropriation but as long as a singer makes good music and has talent I don’t care what race they are.

  11. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ gatamala–I just can’t go apeshit over a woman that can’t hang with the real soul singers and looks like a raggedy imitation of old family photos and the Ronettes.

    If an artist is going to utilize another cultures elements-or flat out imitate like Winehouse- he/she must present it to the audience as such and educate them. Context is everything.

    ::terrorist fist jab::

  12. monica wrote:

    I don’t believe that only whites can do this, what about other people of color doing this to each other? I see blacks and Latinos walking around in those middle easterns scarves and they don’t even know the meaning.
    Sharon Jones doesn’t have the look for pop sucess whether she was only trying to sell to blacks or whites. She doesn’t look like Amy and she doesn’t look like Ciara.

  13. dave wrote:

    @Tami: I really enjoyed that piece written by Brooks as well, touched upon it briefly over on my page too. You get much deeper than me into the issue though.

    I think it might help to explore “individual inspiration” vs. “product appropriation.” Its hard for me to criticize an individual who is moved by a particular culture/sound, but much easier for me to pick apart an industry that will raise up one product/person in lieu of another because of marketability based on oppressive, culturally appropriative elements.

    @gatamala: “If an artist is going to utilize another cultures elements-or flat out imitate like Winehouse- he/she must present it to the audience as such and educate them. Context is everything.” …. I like this idea but wonder how to implement it. I think that times Winehouse has referenced Sarah Vaughn and some other figures, but Brooks seemed to interpret that as performative flair, almost like assuming a “black card” earned under false pretenses.

  14. Monie wrote:

    I think the greatest or worst example of cultrual appropriation is Led Zeppelin. Zeppelin stole dozens of songs from blues artists. They in most cases didn’t even give attribution and almost never paid any money to these artists.

  15. A.D. Nix wrote:

    I should also add that most of the time it’s not the artist that’s the issue rather how the artist is received. As in . . . “Finally! Good soul/blues music! FINALLY.”

  16. Tree wrote:

    It’s not unlike Janis Joplin, really…except for the disgusting ethnic slurs. People will keep defending her, because they still somehow maintain that she’s talented. More talented than Lauryn Hill in her heyday? Most of the people making such proclamations were either too young/white to have listened to Hill in this 30-second culture, or have never bothered.

    The ‘k’ in Africa, to further exoticize the apparel, is wrong; it basically takes the livelihood of women stuck making tourist jewelry thanks to misguided charities and adds a few zeroes to it, and then on top of it all has the gall to try and imply that it’s socially aware.

    A Sami couture line wouldn’t fly simply because of the standards. It’s A-OK to sexualize women of color (albeit, through a slinky clothing line, as opposed to with direct, semi-nude, gratuitous ad photography); a Laplander group that herds raindeer, on the other hand, is probably too remote for colonialism to try and dominate.

  17. Juan wrote:

    I never been flattered, let alone amazed, by amy winehouse and most other musicians as put here

    “There is a long history of of white musicians being inspired by black music and finding fame with an “exotic” but safer sound, while their black muses languished in obscurity.”

    And I’ve put up with the same problem as in GA’s post across many genres of music. White musician is somehow more authentic than the non-white artists they’re pretty much stealing it from, watering it down, repacking then selling it back to me.

    Can’t help but recall the bell hooks essay from her book, Black Looks. http://stevenstanley.tripod.com/docs/bellhooks/madonna.html

    To me culturally appropriated music, from any culture, very often tends to comes off as a hollow, even offensive, imitation that ends up benefiting one group of people above others. Culturally and monetarily. They’ll throw money and props, deals and respect towards the shams and imitators but not to the genuine.

    And sometimes they’ll even accuse the genuine of imitation, e.g. “Macy Gray is trying to sound like Amy Winehouse.” or “Amy Winehouse/Elvis/Justin Timberlake came before Macy Gray/Big Momma Thorton/Usher” or even coming AFTER the white musician.

    >.<

  18. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Don’t forget that Euro-Americans have been dressing up as Indians and appropriating Indian imagery for 500 years. Sports team names and mascots (http://www.bluecorncomics.com/mascots.htm) are only a recent example of this age-old practice.

  19. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

    Man, what am I gonna do with my Amy Winehouse CDs now?

  20. drispe wrote:

    A generational shift has occurred. Older people with firsthand knowledge of Amy Winehouse’s influences could feel used, but their offspring probably don’t care. The music industry has defined hip-hop as the real center of culture for Black folks. Any thing that predates it is old news, and lacking a susbstantial group that will defend it. Nobody jamming to Soulja Boy gives a rat’s ass about Otis Redding’s style being appropriated. Their apathy opens a door for white artists who appreciate more complicated musicianship. If we African Americans didn’t allow our lifestyle to be dictated by record companies and other media, the art form would be as diverse as it should be throughout our ethnic group. But as usual, whites get the “common man” label. Their blank canvas makes them universal, capable of making any music and having any experience they want as others fit a predetermined role.

  21. browngirlinthering wrote:

    i took an entire class in college on cultural/racial appropriation in music…it’s a very big topic! It is growing more and more complicated in a world where globalization, consumer culture, and new forms of technology and means to share music are increasing and developing every day. It’s never clear cut, and very tough to navigate — however as a general statement I think musical sycretism (as opposed to musical appropriation) is important — i would say essential — and can be a very positive aspect of the globalization of music.

    on another note, i have been thinking the same thing about sharon jones since amy winehouse came out! i love her, and hated to see that her music (and her band!!) when re-packaged, was suddenly what everyone wanted to hear.

  22. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Jamerican Muslimah–coasters.

  23. yazikus wrote:

    When is it appropriate to learn or participate in something that is from another culture?
    What about things like belly dancing classes?
    Or religious conversions?
    When does it come down to the individual versus their own cultural history?
    (Great topic by the way!)

  24. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @yazikus -

    We are a little early for the announcement, but this is actually going to be a series. A lot of us participate in things that could be seen as appropriation - I do yoga, belly dance, and took some bollywood dance classes a while back. Most of the other writers do as well, and they also have feelings on things from their own culture. So, it depends…

  25. yazikus wrote:

    @ Latoya-
    Excellent, I did wonder (I just started taking a bellydancing class 2 weeks ago- and I love it- I don’t want to have to give it up for the principal- but I think I would if I felt like it was inappropriate) where is the line, and how do I avoid appropriating other cultures.

  26. yazikus wrote:

    Also- I converted to a religion that alot of people see as nationalist or ethnicity based.. I get alot of ‘why would you convert to ___ religion, its only for ___ people!’.
    I think that would be a good one to cover too =)

  27. KuriusJurge612 wrote:

    @Jus Plain Ol Me
    It’s not an over simplification. Those are just some artists who are very successful (and deserving) but happen to be white. They’re also artists who imiate for lack of a better word artists like Jacko, Prince,Tupac, Easy E, etc. But when many artists of color make similar music they’re ignored.

  28. Em Dash wrote:

    This is so weird - I literally just wrote about this same issue as the first post on my blog, with the same video embedded, and then clicked over here. As a white woman who loves listening to soul-funk music but doesn’t sing it, I am admittedly less sensitive to issues of appropriation. My take was that it’s not wrong for people to be influenced by music from other cultures - a lot of great, even iconic, music is created from cultural mixing. What troubles me is that, like the author pointed out, ONLY white singers who appropriate soul music seem to be able to get famous, because their talents are seen as “special” when contrasted with their background. And that means we get worse music from artists who only partly understand the tradition they’re promoting.

  29. Lauren wrote:

    I felt a lot of things last year during the first season of America’s Best Dance Crew. It didn’t sit well with me that crews like Kaba Modern were the “new face of hiphop”, when they are clearly studio manufactured and have probably never set foot in a house party or a hip hop club. How can you be the new face of something when you have no ties to the founding community?

    At least you could tell that Jabbawokeez has some connection to hiphop. They were my pick to when, and I’m glad they did.

    Anyway, good post.

  30. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @EmDash: “What troubles me is that, like the author pointed out, ONLY white singers who appropriate soul music seem to be able to get famous, because their talents are seen as “special” when contrasted with their background.”

    Yeah, THIS, I think is key. I have no qualms with Winehouse as an artist (or didn’t until I followed that damned ‘Head and shoulders knees and toes” link) but rather all the business that has swirled around her. But I went through the same thing with Eminem. Suddenly, somehow, a hip hop artists is okay to play on a hard rock station (as happened in NY and San Diego at least)? Really? What’s so different about THIS guy? Oh, you also play the Beastie Boys? Well in that case . . .

    I guess there’s may also be the issue of participation (taking a yoga class) vs. profiting (teaching yoga for a living). What if ONLY white yoga gurus became stars despite the presence of lots of practicing, struggling Indian yoga instructors?

  31. A.D. Nix wrote:

    Damnit. I can haz syntax and grammarz?

  32. WestEndGirl wrote:

    I’m really interested in this definition:

    “If a dominant culture fancies some random element (a mode of dress, a manner of speaking, a style of music) of my culture interesting or exotic, but otherwise disdains my being and seeks to marginalize me, it is surely an insult.”

    >> how do we choose what counts as disdain or marginalisation in this context? There is a line somewhere, but I’m not sure how/where we can draw it. As yazikus pointed out, virtually everyone does it!

    Eminem clearly does not disdain or marginalise the black originators of hip-hop, but some of his listeners likely do!

    Some people might merrily eat lox bagels, use the word schmuck liberally, enjoy traditional and swing jazz (hugely influenced by klezmer) and yet have very strange views about Jews or - more likely - not even realise where those things have come from and the part they play in Yiddish culture!

    So basically, it’s just very easy for things to get “smooshed” together and most groups do not hardly even recognise, far less acknowledge, their debt to other cultures/groups who have originated language, culture, food, music.

    My view is that great art, food, music etc are universal and that as long as they inspire possible exploration of the original then there is no harm done. If for every Amy Winehouse record, someone gets inspired and goes and buys an Etta James one, I say great!

    Seriously, if I got bothered by every ham and cheese toasted bagel I saw (bang goes nearly a 1000 years of Jewish culinary tradition), I’d have a conniption, I just often drop into a conversation where I can with someone eating one the: did you know that the bagel dates back to xxxx thing. That way they get to eat their bagel and I get to explain something about (half of) my heritage. Result!

  33. NancyP wrote:

    #16 Tree, a Sami couture line wouldn’t be too popular just because the clothing is too heavy for most American climates. It might be practical in the Dakotas, N. Minnesota, Upper Peninsula of Michigan, or Alaska. A Sami design motif, on the other hand, might be used.

    There’s a lot of guessing about intent involved in the definitions of cultural appropriation.

    When is imitation the sincerest form of flattery, and when is it just a rip-off?

    Are “nominal” Christians (those who don’t think about it much, and just belong because their parents did or because “everyone else” does) cultural appropriators of Christianity? What about an Irish or English-descended agnostic who may wear an artistic version of a religious symbol or image (Celtic cross)? What about the same agnostic wearing an artistic image of Krishna and Radha? Does it make a difference if that person’s understanding is limited to “God and his human beloved” (a theme not restricted to Hinduism, btw), or does the person have to be well-versed in Hindu religious text and tradition concerning Krishna?

    Why are animal prints in clothing rip-offs if the animal is of African or Asian habitat, but animal prints of domestic spotted cows OK? It’s an animal, not a human culture.

    Now understand, many will see me (white American-born woman of Swedish and English familial descent afaik) as cultural appropriator because I have bought and displayed or worn various aesthetically pleasing clothing and jewelry, fine arts prints by a Japanese-American artist I like (some Japanese iconography incorporated in some work, none in others), handicrafts such as decorated containers and ceramics (I like and collect American contemporary craft ceramics, too, and have a few modern European or UK made items - including the dratted IKEA-type assemble-it-yourself bookshelves on which some of the ceramics are displayed). The makers of such items are probably happy that I am paying them for their expertise in design and execution. I like to learn a little about the original design history as well as the adapted-for-modern-Western-buyer use. My knowledge is superficial, but I can ID the country or region of origin of design and execution of each item. I don’t intend to “recreate” the culture appropriated, merely show a lovely object and give what credit I can to a named artist or unnamed person from a particular culture. I assume that the objects are “made for market” - I could be wrong, and I’d hate to find out that I was the end buyer for some treasured family heirloom (remotely possible for some 50 year old jewelry, both foreign and domestic).

    Yes, this does zip to help the culture in question, other than to display its sense of design and aesthetics.

    Comments encouraged.

  34. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

    @yazikus, I think religious conversion is another matter. I converted to Islam which many people see as a “foreign religion” or an Arab religion. However, that has more to do with people’s misperceptions than appropriation. Not only does Islam have a long history with both of my cultures (Jamaican and African-American) but it is not exclusive to Arabs or South Asians- it’s for everyone.

  35. Joseph wrote:

    I…disagree with this premise.

    If we accept the idea that Amy Winehouse is “appropriating” soul music then we imagine a universe in which there is a finite amount of soul music that might be used, stolen or wasted. And further, that this warehouse where the soul music is kept is staffed entirely by black people who are the true “keepers” of this cultural expression. And this slides very quickly into a yucky essentialist argument where authentic blackness is used a to grant passes (or deny access to) specific cultural expressions.

    I think making arguments in these terms is essentially conservative because it assumes that your racial/ethnic/gender affiliation or identity comes with special powers or limitations–and that is a concept that is used to justify racist policies and expressions all the time. I just don’t think we need to go there in order to make the point that Amy Winehouse is fucked up for using racist language.

    So Amy Winehouse is not “appropriating” soul music…she is a soul singer. Whether she is a good soul singer or whether hearing her say racist things ruins our ability to appreciate her music are open questions. But no matter how many disgusting racist videotapes turn up we can’t get together and take a vote and decide that Amy Winehouse isn’t a “real” soul singer.

  36. Natasha Vincent wrote:

    Whoa. There’s so much here - both in the post and comments - that I’m forgetting the main purpose of my own comment.

    Essentially, I wanted to remind folks that those of us with African heritage have been heard to taunt others abusing their White privilege with the apparently horrific reality of the “1 drop of blood” retort.

    So, if the conversation here is about those living in Western nations signing songs, wearing clothes, styling hair and otherwise appropriating African culture are we not shooting ourselves in the foot?

    (A short aside here since it’s always bugged me: there are light skinned people in Africa who have been there for several dozen generations. Are they less African than their darker skinned neighbors?)

    Remember too that true artists - musical or otherwise - realize that they don’t operate in a void and are quick to humble themselves by reminding us of those that came before. The ones that I’ve seen anyway.

    That said then, pop music gives us, the great unwashed, an opportunity to learn about the history of musical art.

    True though; opportunities are often wasted.

    And the comments brought up the notion of “reverse appropriation” (for lack of a better term) and I really hope the Racialicious series covers this.

    Am I, as a dark-skinned Black woman in dreadlocks, to be deemed strange for wanting to learn short track speed skating this winter? It’s empowering, no? Am I wrong to “culture-bend” in this way?

    I hope not because for the most part, messing with people’s heads and their expectations has always been awfully fun.

  37. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Natasha -

    My contributions to the series are going to cover a lot “reverse appropriation,” but I don’t think of it in that way. I’ll ask the other contribs if they can argue that side.

    However, I will caution everyone - I don’t think we will get to a definitive answer on cultural appropriation. Some posts may contradict others. My purpose in doing the series is to flesh out the arguments, not necessarily to provide a definitive how-to guide.

  38. L. wrote:

    Cultural appropriation, given the history of the world’s expansion and the current phenomenon of globalization, is inevitable. But, IMO, what I’m seeing in a lot of these comments is confusion between cultural appropriation and cultural integration/appreciation.

    To me, and this is just my view, the driving mechanism of cultural appropriation is the “picking-over”, so to speak, of elements of one’s culture (as it ties into history and identity) at the expense and (especially) the degradation of the original culture and its people. When society can accept someone’s culture under certain circumstances (i.e., the whitewashing or westernization of the culture), but couldn’t care less about the actual culture or its people. When elements of a culture are allowed to become a part of the “norm” while its people remain excluded, and when/how this can lead to oppression, is what I take issue with. I guess a better term for what I’m trying to get across is cultural exploitation.

    As an African-American, I feel that elements of our history and culture are always being exploited, and even worse, twisted and thrown back in our faces as a way of further oppressing us. One of the best examples of this is rock music. In short, it sprung from Rhythm and Blues, it was exploited, and now it’s been sanctioned as something POC can’t do or haven’t done. If I like rock, I’m acting white. It’s messed up because African Americans buy into that because your Elvis’s and Beatles were bigger than your Chuck Berry’s and Little Richards.

    Anyway, I feel like I just rambled…

  39. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @L -

    Cultural appropriation, given the history of the world’s expansion and the current phenomenon of globalization, is inevitable. But, IMO, what I’m seeing in a lot of these comments is confusion between cultural appropriation and cultural integration/appreciation.

    Shhh! You’re stealing the words from my brain! How am I going to write a post with you in my mind?

  40. L. wrote:

    Shhh! You’re stealing the words from my brain! How am I going to write a post with you in my mind?

    Payback! I’ve been feeling this way every since I started reading Racialicious!

  41. Barbara B. wrote:

    L. Said-
    “To me, and this is just my view, the driving mechanism of cultural appropriation is the “picking-over”, so to speak, of elements of one’s culture (as it ties into history and identity) at the expense and (especially) the degradation of the original culture and its people. When society can accept someone’s culture under certain circumstances (i.e., the whitewashing or westernization of the culture), but couldn’t care less about the actual culture or its people. When elements of a culture are allowed to become a part of the “norm” while its people remain excluded, and when/how this can lead to oppression, is what I take issue with. I guess a better term for what I’m trying to get across is cultural exploitation.”

    Thank you, L. I’ve never seen a better definition of cultural appropriation, particularly as applied to the global appropriation of African-American culture.

  42. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ L: “When elements of a culture are allowed to become a part of the “norm” while its people remain excluded, and when/how this can lead to oppression, is what I take issue with. I guess a better term for what I’m trying to get across is cultural exploitation.”

    Thaaaaaat’s what I’m talking about.

  43. Winn wrote:

    Joseph,

    I get your point, and there is definitely some truth to your arguments, but I disagree with your fundamental conclusion. Soul music has its roots in the authentic experience of blackness in America, and all the highs and lows associated with that experience, from dancing and drinking in juke joints to lynchings and Jim Crow segregation. Blackness, in the broadest definition, is an essential element of what constituted soul music, and that’s why cultural appropriation arguments have always accompanied those from the dominant culture who chose this form of music to express themselves. The terms “Northern Soul” in the UK and “blue-eyed soul” came from somewhere. Audiences, musicians and singers, record executives, nightclub owners: all associated this music with blackness. It is only since the explosion of rock and roll in the 50’s and 60’s that white artists began to be embraced and celebrated for performing “race music”, and quickly eclipsing the original artists in terms of sales and exposure.

    They have retirement funds and support foundations for aging soul and blues musicians for a reason. Those artists did not have access to the venues, radio airplay and marketing muscle that pushed the white artists who homogenized and modified their sound to make it more palatable to white audiences. Now, contemporary artists face the same problems, with even great singers like Angie Stone, Jill Scott and India Arie being shunted aside for Winehouse, Duffy and Adele.

    Someone mentioned Estelle upthread. Estelle caught serious blowback for asserting in the press that Adele and Duffy are not, in her estimation, soul singers. Perhaps that is up for debate, but when Duffy herself admits she grew up in an isolated Welsh town with no exposure to great music of any kind, let alone classic soul, there’s some truth to Estelle’s assertions. But her larger point was this: the English press fawned all over Winehouse, the blond and pretty Duffy, and the porcelain-skinned Adele, calling them “authentic” soul, while Estelle was shoved aside. She had to come to the US and enlist the help of Kanye West to score her first major hit.

    It’s very much about access and inclusion. Amy Winehouse is not just a “soul singer”. She is a white soul singer, undeniably talented, who has a look and personal story that grab headlines today. But what about before the headlines, when her excellent first album, “Frank” , was released? Back then, she was a talented singer, but probably no more or less talented than many other black singers in England. But she got representation and caught buzz in a way that has not been open to black artists in the same way. That’s a large part of what appropriation is about: membership in the dominant culture allows you to own the history and artistic creations of a minority group, and to present it to the world as authentically yours. Your version may even become “more” authentic than the original, and those with a historical and generational connection to the tradition are seen as pretenders, because the tradition has been redefined.

    Finally, its not just that Amy Winehouse used racist language. Its that she’s made her career and fortune utilizing a sound and performance style rooted in the experience of people of color, and then denigrates and dismisses those very people and the history that gave birth to her musical genre in the first place. Sorry Joseph, but that’s appropriation to me.

  44. Em Dash wrote:

    @L
    “Cultural appropriation, given the history of the world’s expansion and the current phenomenon of globalization, is inevitable. But, IMO, what I’m seeing in a lot of these comments is confusion between cultural appropriation and cultural integration/appreciation.”

    I think this is a fabulous distinction, and very useful. Respect, knowledge, and a level playing field matter.

  45. heyhey wrote:

    My quick take on this topic, as I feel like I’ve talked about this at length on other blogs is 1)looking forward to the series Latoya, and 2)I feel that the best way to offset your “cultural app. footprint” (to appropriate Green langauge, hey!), is to “pay it back”. Amy, you got the Dap Kings backing you, you’d better give loud and constant props to Sharon. And help Ms. Jones score more gigs like her Lollapolooza shows. Christina’s been talking about Etta for a minute, and if that leads the youngins to know who she is, then I’ll forgive Christina’s mellisma-o-rama over “At Last”.

    And agreed to the poster up there that made the distinction between Ice and Em (and Beasties, etc.) The “artist”’s relationship to the culture/community needs to be taken into account. Are you straight robbing them or are you “in” that culture fully, know the history, know your relative place in it, contribute and respect it?

    Aside: re:Estelle, her comments stemmed from the noms for the Brit equivalent of The Grammys, and while I feel her crits of white artists nearly stealing her “Shine” , I think the whole category “MOBO” (music of black origin) is problematic. I think both MIA and another female MC was nommed in the category. I mean, props for acknowledging the source of the music, but that’s really lazy lumping of retro soul, Estelle’s own retro-modern-reggae sound, and world-”hiphop” MIA in one catch-all group.

  46. Dolly wrote:

    I’ve never heard about Amy Winehouse or know much about hip-hop or R/B. But I do know that Japanese anime has become a huge craze among a lot of Americans lately, and I think there’s a fine line there between cultural appreciation and appropriation.

    For example, one of my best friends from high school ended up becoming a translator for the Japanese because she loved anime and manga so much. Originally, it was just cartoon shows after school or martial arts programs, but then she took a language class, then she competed for a scholarship, then she actually went to Japan. What was just an interest turned into a real passionate love for culture and people. In this sense, I think my friend’s love of anime turned into a serious cultural appreciation.

    On the other hand, one of my sister’s friends was so obsessed with Japanese anime that she would go out of her way to correct everyone about everything Asian. Even among ACTUAL Japanese students, she believed she knew best. And anime served as a way for her to identify herself and make friends. It wasn’t about a love of the Japanese language so much as she didn’t fit in and needed some way to justify that. To me, that’s appropriation.

    I personally like anime, and I’m white. I’ve known some POCs that like anime too (though I’ve been told it’s frustrating for them to find other people of their race that have the same interest). I don’t want to derail from the R/B, hip-hop theme, but what do other people think of Japanese anime/manga?

  47. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Dolly -

    I’m writing some new stuff on Otakudom. I wrote this piece a while back but it’s a little old, and I need to add in some new experiences now that I am on my fourth ‘Con cycle and some interesting points made by American Manga-kas.

  48. Kepler wrote:

    I think this post is the first to illuminate the confusion of cultural appropriation (to me at least). I’ve always wondered why (esp) Americans were so sensitive. After all, most of our culture and norms is a smorgasbord of various cultures, sometimes producing hilariously offensive creations such as the above mentioned cheese-and-ham bagel.
    And yet, on a second look, the primarily American approach to creating a ‘melting point’ is akin to taking a stroll through a world market, picking and choosing parts of cultures that suit one’s fancy. For instance, I like plaid, so I pick up some ‘Scotish’ elements. Not a fan of bland boiled food, so I’ll pass on the English cuisine, thank you. I walk by Afghanistan section without blinking an eye, despite the fact my country is mired there and sinking billions and billions of dollars in it, and head straight to India and adorn myself with cuisine, entertainment and dress, unaware of what region of India I’m adopting. While my shopping cart is piled high with elements of Muay Thai and Thai cuisine, it is curiously devoid of anything else Thai related: history, culture, and embarasing its geographical location. And so on. My decisions seem to take place in a vacuum, completely oblivious to the constraints and realities of others.

    While all the ‘items’ in my shopping cart seem to evolve with time, they all play a role in defining who I am. Some ‘items’ have been present since I was a pre-teen, others however are a recent introduction. I think the problem most people have with cultural appropriation is the fate of the remaining elements; the discarded ‘items’. Perhaps the most prevalent fear is that the cultural appropriators will treat the ‘discarded items’ like spoiled fruit, or an experiment with disastrous/negative results, thus painting the entire culture with the same tainted brush. Something sacred like a bindi was (seemingly) casually adopted and discarded during the 1990s thanks in part to Gwen Steffani and Madonna. Pop music did the same to Persian musical influences (think Sting), as did hip-hop with Indian musical influences (Timbaland, Missy Elliot, Bubba Sparxxx) during the early 2000s. At the beginning of each of these appropriations, I got excited and (foolishly) thought this was a perfect opportunity for musicians/artists in the east to break into the American music field. And each time I was sorely disappointed*.

    So, long post short, perhaps if the appropriators were able to convey a sense of respect and diminish the fear of treating elements like disposable adornments, then maybe cultural appropriation would not be offensive. Which of course begs the question, how does one do that?

    *Similar to the disappointment I felt when I found out about Amy Winehouse’s ethnic slurs. One could argue I should go out and find musicians as opposed to waiting for the Music Industry to present their latest/blandest find, but not everyone is plugged into the music landscape (hint, hint: Latoya, I think it would be awesome to have a post where everyone posted un(der)appreciated musicians. I’m still swooning over the Noisettes some 4 months after you mentioned them!).

    So, long post short, perhaps if the appropriators were able to convey a sense of respect and diminish the fear of treating elements like disposable adornments, then maybe cultural appropriation would not be offensive. Which of course begs the question, how does one do that?

  49. Kepler wrote:

    oops, sorry about the double-posted paragraph. Laziness slowly crept in…

  50. Joseph wrote:

    @Winn
    “Blackness, in the broadest definition, is an essential element of what constituted soul:

    …And that would be that yucky essentialist argument I was arguing against. Look, I am frankly uncomfortable with any statement that begins “Blackness is…” no matter where it ends up. (A warm puppy?)

    You are quite right though that soul music is associated with a (not “the”) Black Experience and it would be silly to argue that. But the real issue in my mind isn’t that white singers “stole” black music away from it’s authentic keepers…it’s that they got rich doing it, while black artists in the same position got completely screwed out of profiting from their own work. But that is an argument about racist business practices, not cultural appropriation.

    “Now, contemporary artists face the same problems, with even great singers like Angie Stone, Jill Scott and India Arie being shunted aside for Winehouse, Duffy and Adele.”

    That is just nonsense. The fact that Duffy got a record deal is not what is keeping Angie Stone off the airwaves. The US American Neo-Soul movement had its moment ten years ago, well before Duffy, Adele and Winehouse got their deals. Jill Scott (who I love) and India. Arie (whose earnest musings bore me almost completely to death) have smaller-sized careers for a constellation of reasons that have less to do with the current crop of English soul singers than the state of US American “Urban” radio , which has little use for them.

    “membership in the dominant culture allows you to own the history and artistic creations of a minority group, and to present it to the world as authentically yours. Your version may even become “more” authentic than the original, and those with a historical and generational connection to the tradition are seen as pretenders, because the tradition has been redefined.”

    Winehouse is an English Jew…and not incidentally, an infamous junkie, so she is hardly a member of the dominant culture in her country. (So the OP’s reference to her “whiteness” and “thinness” seem disingenuous to say the least). I have never heard her make any claim to “authenticity” about her music. On the contrary, current racist sing-alongs aside, I have only ever understood her to be worshipful of the black soul singers who preceded her, which is what makes the revelation of her racist comments so disturbing to me.

    As you’ve said, there is a long tradition of white soul singers coming from the UK…and Winehouse is just the latest in that line. (I am thinking here about Dusty Springfield, Allison Moyet, Helen Terry, Cilla Black, etc.) So Winehouse is performing within a preexisting tradition, not doing some one-off act of cultural theft.

    I am not arguing you should not be angered by her comments–I am. But I reject the premise of the original post, that Winehouse’s music is either “Cultural appropriation” or “homage” i.e. either theft of flattery. It is a performance. You can reject it based on your disgust with her behavior but you don’t get to redefine it based on an essentialist view of race (yours or hers).

    .

  51. Jaye wrote:

    L:”…the driving mechanism of cultural appropriation is the “picking-over”, so to speak, of elements of one’s culture… at the expense and (especially) the degradation of the original culture and its people…When elements of a culture are allowed to become a part of the “norm” while its people remain excluded, and when/how this can lead to oppression, is what I take issue with.”

    Absolutely. I’ve been trying to figure out a way to tell the difference, because I KNOW there’s a difference, but I couldn’t come up with the words.
    I am definitely a person who “borrows” from other cultures, including my own since I’m bi-racial…and I feel fine about it. I don’t feel I am culturally appropriating anything, I just love styles and esthetics and mindsets and perceptions of different peoples…but I certainly hope I’m doing it in a way that is respectful, even when it’s more style than substance (or vice-versa). But there IS such a thing as cultural appropriation, and I see it all the time. And it is important to be clear about the difference, because there is one.

  52. Dolly wrote:

    Oh, thanks for the link Latoya! Sorry, I’m kind of new to Racialicious so I’m not always up-to-date on what’s been covered an not. The article you linked to is awesome though and I’m really looking forward to what you write on otakudom in the future.

  53. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Dolly - No sweat. It was well over a year ago - in internet time, that is ages. It was one of the first posts I wrote here, I think. number 3 or 4…

    Anyway, I am thinking about:

    1. Discussing how race and appropriation plays out at the Con
    2. The ideas surrounding who is *allowed* to play in another culture. There is still an overwhelming perception of white as the default.
    3. Giving and taking - it’s interesting to watch things like Afro Samurai and Samurai Champloo as a black woman. (But I think I need to finish A.S. before I write that post.)
    4. The *real* issue with appropriation, which is when your tiny bit of exposure colors how you see everything else. If you read the comments to that post, you’ll see what I mean.

  54. drispe wrote:

    I don’t see how taking a class (i.e. yoga, which is pretty much exercise for many people) can be considered appropriation. That’s not necessarily seizing a foreign cultural norm and using it as part of one’s identity. Winehouse, Aguilera and Timberlake can sound like African Americans to the average ear, but they probably go home to a lily white environment despite how organic their musical instincts supposedly are. Comparatively, Beyonce and J. Hud will be allowed no more appropriation than that of their latest weave. The problem is that they can’t strap on a guitar, rock out and still cash beaucoup checks.

  55. OW wrote:

    One point I always try to add in regards to the Winehouse vs. Jones debate is that the cross-racial history of not just retro-soul but soul-writ-large adds a layer of complexity here that rarely goes acknowledged.

    For example, the CW is that “Jones is real while Winehouse is inauthentic, thieving, etc.” and this is premised - at least on some level - on each woman’s respective race. I do think there is a higher burden placed on Whites who stylize themselves - visually, aurally, whatever - as Black given the weight of history. That’s not an unfair burden that White artists should have to carry, especially given the racist business practices of years past.

    However, when it comes to soul *music*, especially retro-soul, we also have to look beyond the voice. The Dap-Kings - the group that backed Amy and Sharon - the group that, in many ways, makes what Sharon Jones does possible…they are almost all white. And young. Not just them either - you look at the composition of most retro-soul bands and I guarantee you, they will be majority (if not exclusively) white EXCEPT for their lead singer. In that respect, Amy is actually quite the exception; the vast majority of retro-soul bands team white players with black singers.

    And if Amy’s voice is this mish-mash of different Black styles (which I agree it is), then what can you say about these white soul bands who are expert in what they do but part of their “expert-ness” comes from their ability to assimilate and synthesize a mish-mash of Black musical styles, whether we’re talking about Motown, Stax, Muscle Shoals, etc. Are they not cultural appropriators then? And what are they doing that’s so different from Amy?

    And let me add one more twist in here: most of the original soul bands that groups like the Dap-kings studied were interracial themselves. The great Aretha Franklin - proverbial queen of soul - made some of her most important work backed by an all-white band from Muscle Shoals. The sound of Southern soul at Stax wouldn’t have been possible if not for the interracial house band, the MGs. Atlantic Records, the most important soul label of the 1960s besides Motown, was run by a Jewish American producer (Jerry Wexler), two Turkish American execs (Ahmet and Nesuhi Ertegun), and a white engineer (Tom Dodd).

    None of this negates what soul music conveys about Blackness and the Black experience. Soul music maybe universally enjoyed, it may express universal themes (about love and loss and the desire for freedom, both metaphoric and literal) but all those universalisms don’t detach soul from the reality and legacy of race.

    Perhaps that’s what’s missing or problematic about Winehouse, at least that’s part of the gist of what I saw in Daphne’s article. I do wonder, however, what Amy could have done differently NOT to have effaced the Black women she so expertly weaves into their performance? What would that look like? What would that *sound* like? If Amy had done a cover of “Change Gonna Come,” would that have been a sufficient gesture?

    I’m not asking this rhetorically and in fact, I don’t have very good answers for anything I’ve raised here. I think the most important thing that I want to convey is that when it comes to soul, you really can’t reduce its complexity to a simple matter of (you know what’s coming, right?)…black and white.

    Couple of smaller points:

    1) “Thin, young, white and tragic sells so much better than dark, plump and middle-aged.”

    Take race out of there and the equation still holds. Race may very well be an element in why Amy outsells Sharon but it’s hardly the only important factor, especially within the logic of the music industry. Thin, young, artists are usually considered more marketable than plump older ones.

    2) “Without diminishing the impact of artists like Elvis and The Rolling Stones on the popular music scene, surely it is clear that they benefited from a culture that would never allow a bluesman like Robert Johnson to gain mainstream prominence.”

    Johnson’s lack of mainstream prominence may not be a useful analogy here since he died at such a young age with barely two dozen songs to his name. It’s not like he had toiled for years with a massive catalog that went ignored. Most of Johnson’s most celebrated music wasn’t discovered by a wider audience until after his death. Moreover, I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest the reason anyone knows anything at all about Robert Johnson is largely because of white musicians and critics championing him, posthumously.

    Someone like Bo Diddley would make a better comparison - the late artist was enormously respected but not anywhere near as successful as some of the White artists he influenced.

  56. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @drispe -

    It’s not so much taking the classes, but becoming proficient, and eventually, trying to make a living out of something that you love, and are good at, but your racial/ethnic group isn’t associated with. I’ll get into that more in a piece.

  57. siditty wrote:

    This trend always used to confuse me. As a child in a predominantly white setting, I was always made fun of for my big greasy lips and my afro hair, and later for my big booty and thighs, but now Angelina Jolie has thick lips, it is in style. Jessica Biel has a big caboose it is sexy. I don’t understand why on my black skin it was seen as ugly, but on their pale skin it was seen as pretty. Much like the music, I remember when people referred to R&B and hip hop as “jungle music”,when it was New Edition it was moderately successful with white audiences, when it was New Kids On The Block, it is a phenomenon. I am so telling me age with these examples, but you get the gist.

    It is like when something is mainstream and taken from the niche culture it becomes trendy, when it was just unique to a certain culture, it was savage and uninteresting.

  58. gatamala wrote:

    Some people might merrily eat lox bagels, use the word schmuck liberally, enjoy traditional and swing jazz (hugely influenced by klezmer) and yet have very strange views about Jews or - more likely - not even realise where those things have come from and the part they play in Yiddish culture!

    *sits in the corner*

    WEG~ OK this made me laugh out loud b/c I am SO guilty of this (sans strange views on Jews).

    I bitch and moan about DC’s bad bagels. I grew up in an area full of Northern transplants, including Jews (mostly of Central Eur descent). We had Horwitz’ deli (went to school with his nephew) which was the business! I also ran with a few Jewish girls whose parents had them overnighted from Manhattan. I tasted lox in 3rd grade and that was it! Hell, one friend used to bring me matzo at Passover.

    As for Yiddish, I referred to my friend’s triflin client as a schlub (not to his face). Bless his heart but he is. When I first saw him I thought he’d been locked in our basement. IMHO I think that’s why we use Yiddish words. They truly and completely describe what you want to convey. As for schmuck….that’s as rough as pendejo. Cluing people in should make for an interesting situation…

    I didn’t really think about swing & klezmer. Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman - clarinets. Excellent point.

    That’s the thing about appropriation. The reality is people move and their culture comes with them, particularly when you are part of a diaspora (West African descended or Jewish) with a significant presence. When you have a place like the U.S. it’s going to “rub off”, get picked up and become mainstream. The questions are whether it can be understood and whether the source is as respected as the output.

  59. Andrea wrote:

    Halloween is a Celtic holiday…

  60. maputo wrote:

    yo, thanks for the heads up on the dap kings! They totally make winehouse’s sound!!!!!

    The dap kings are the dopest thing ive heard in so long. I couldn’t really get into winehouse because she was (to me) a sad imitation of motown, but The Dap Kings are so what i was looking for.

    THANK YOU RACIALICIOUS.

  61. Jessica wrote:

    I WISH people on feministing would read this!!

  62. G.K. wrote:

    @Monica

    It’s not just that Miss Jones dosen’t have the so-called look, it’s that sadly, most artists over 35 or 40 aren’t considered “marketable” due to their age, no matter how good they are. Which is a shame,because I’ve heard many an artist way past 40 (like Canadian singer Bruce Cockburn, for example, whom I like) who actually sound better the older they get. Talent has absolutely nothing to do with looks, and it certainly dosen’t disappear after a certain age, either.

    Unfortunately,that’s how the music business is run nowadays. I mean, if Barbara Streisand (or another talented singer I loved,the late Laura Nyro) were to come up on the scene today, they’d both get told to get nose jobs, or that they weren’t pretty enough to even get a contract, despite their remarkable voices. Hell, even the classic diva Gladys Knight or an excellent singing group called Perri (who were big briefly during the late ’80’s—their biggest hit was “No Place To Go) would probably be told the same thing. But, anyway, I’ve been seeing this type of appropaition going on all my life. It’s good to know that there are people who know how to call it out when they see it.

    @ Monie

    Led Zep (whose records I grew up liking a whole hell of a lot) didn’t just steal from blues artists—in fact, one of their best known hits, “Dazed and Confused” , was ripped off from a white dude named Jake Holmes–here’s the story behind that:

    http://www.shindig-magazine.com/pdf/dazed.pdf

  63. Winn wrote:

    Joseph,

    I respect your opinion, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see how you can divorce “racist business practices” from cultural appropriation, when the racist business practices are based on the greater accessibility and profit-making potential of whites simulating a form of musical expression not rooted in their own history, tradition or experience. And although you accuse me of having an “essentialist” view of race (I don’t think you know me well enough to surmise this, especially since I thought I made clear in my comment that I was talking about “a” black experience that formed the foundations of soul and blues music, not an encompassing, monolithic view that holds true across all people or situations), it was that very essentialist view that allowed the creations and contributions of black artists to be marginalized and diminished in favor of white artists. We talk frequently on this blog about privilege, and it is a vestige of unearned and unexamined privilege to divorce the lived experiences that form the foundations of soul music from the people who perform it.

    I never claimed Amy Winehouse (or Duffy or Adele) were perpetrating a “one-off act of cultural theft”. I obliquely referenced the long tradition of English soul singers in my original comment. But I also believe that Winehouse only appreciates certain aspects of the various musical traditions she borrows from, and although she has never denied or avoided her Jewishness, I hardly think much of her audience or critics think of her as anything but white. Is that her fault? Perhaps not, but she certainly profits from it, just as she profits from the perception of her as an innovator and improver of a tradition without having to be concerned about the complicated history of that tradition, one that is inextricably tied to the perceived race of its originators and the experiences that shaped that history. If that is an essentialist view, so be it.

    I can think of a number of white soul singers, from the aforementioned Cilla Black and Dusty Springfield, to males like Paul Weller or Daryl Hall, who have not only expressed appreciation and respect for their forebears, but who also expressed that appreciation in their interpersonal and professional relationships, and worked in various ways to bring attention and financial renumeration to those artists where possible. Amy Winehouse sits in a crack den and sings racist ditties, and has yet to suffer any discernable career fallout from this. We could have a whole separate thread on the different trajectory Winehouse’s career, given her drug abuse, arrests, public gaffes, missed shows, etc., would be taking were she a black singer. Once again, not her fault, but I doubt she is totally unaware of the fact that she is afforded liberties others would not be. Still looks like appropriation to me.

  64. Free wrote:

    I hope this isn’t too long …

    I was thinking about cultural appropriation of art two days ago when I was at the Grand Canyon of New Mexico. There were several artists at the site selling jewelry, leather goods, sand paintings, and figurines. There was one Native American female artist selling her jewelry. The rest were white with the exception of one black man, and a Hispanic female (in New Mexico, Hispanic).

    Most of what was on sale reminded me of Navajo and Hopi art and design. I was totally turned off by what I saw as one-way street appropriation. What, if anything, do these artists give back to the communities from whose designs they are enriching themselves? Perhaps some of the vendors were selling items purchased from a reservation or pueblo. But there were a few creating jewelry and figurines at the site. Is it “appropriate” to use sacred stones to create “inspired” designs to make more money to buy more sacred stones to create more? Artists often “borrow” ideas and materials from other artists, but the difference here is the tourist who just sees a “southwestern design,” snaps it up and the origins and meanings behind Native American art and design are rendered insignificant. Reminds me of all the Native American figurines that are sold at the market in Rome on Via Tiburtina and the Muskogee (Creek) Indians that dance in costume in downtown Athens, Greece: form without substance.

    This also applies in the world of music: Amy Winehouse’s music and fashion sense are celebrated as pure Anglo genius at the expense of African-American music history and genius which remains obscured.

  65. Christin wrote:

    In the short term, it’s insulting to Sharon Jones, but I think the publicity will she has gained off the Winehouse connection will give her a giant leg up in building her name. Jones will be a working legend of soul long after Winehouse is forgotten or od’d, or worse.

  66. NancyP wrote:

    Here’s my classification scheme for types of appropriation. Comments or ideas?

    Appropriation level I: Consumer.

    IA: Unaware of non-majority influence on objects, performances, etc.
    These are the oblivious white fans of Elvis, ignorant of historical / cultural influences on Elvis’ music. To them, “white American culture” is just unmarked “culture”, and it doesn’t dawn on them to look for other cultures’ contribution to specific examples of “white American culture”. These people could have unconscious race-preference or conscious hostility to other races.

    IB: Dilettante, conscious of non-majority influence or status on certain objects, performances, and other forms of culture consumed.
    As one of the white appropriators, I function mostly at the level of consumer of American identity buying objects I find aesthetically pleasing, listening to and having preferences about specific non-classical and non-Anglo-folk music genres and individuals within genres, or reading literature in translation, “post-colonial” English-language literature, or literature written by minority Americans and Canadians. I don’t feel that these objects and activities somehow confer a different identity upon me. I do realize that I am a magpie. But basically, I am a consumer who browses widely but shallowly. I also read world news and feature articles. I am entertaining myself and trying to get some sense of how other people (not my nationality, race, age, class, gender, orientation, etc) live and think. I don’t give back much other than the money for a physical product, perhaps some recommendation of a product among friends (listen to this Bulgarian women’s chorus, interesting harmonies and rhythms…No science fiction fan should fail to sample genre works by Octavia Butler, Stanislaw Lem, L. Timmel Duchamp…), and the general consciousness that there’s a world outside the USA or outside my own community.

    Not virtuous, not obnoxious (at least I hope I don’t insult through inappropriate acts of ignorance).

    Appropriation level II: Consumer, with serious knowledge base about a specific culture.
    IIA. Appropriation to alter identity:
    The manga-philes who thinks that they are “more Japanese” than the Japanese.

    IIB. Appropriation in geek mode, not altering identity: An expert in modern Japanese fine arts printing, or an expert in Japanese literature of a certain type, eg, the medievalist with expertise in the Tale of Genji and other landmark literature. These people probably don’t fantasize that they are anything other than Americans who like topic x, although both examples might like to be invited to a formal tea ceremony to see the use of the work of a master ceramicist or to have some sense of what the authors are talking about. IIB types are academic at heart.

    Appropriation level III: Artist.
    Appropriation is what artists do, consciously or unconsciously. They appropriate from others in their own culture, or from other cultures. An entirely new thought or technique is relatively rare. I’d say it is only good form to credit your influences - what else are dedication pages, forewords, and other forms of acknowledgment for? That’s not a huge benefit, but it is something, and may be all that is needed. (”I’d like to thank artist X for helping me to learn technique Y during my two month apprenticeship in his studio in city Z, country A”). The obligations for a solo artist may change from situation to situation, and obligations for the lead artist in a collaborative effort definitely will change.

    But what responsibility does an artist inspired by Maori art and culture have to assist all Maoris? I am not sure. Do they care to bother with the artist’s perhaps misdirected good will?

    The one thing I think an artist should avoid is certain types of blatant intentional insult involving race, or the abstractions of an undifferentiated religion or culture. There isn’t going to be any agreement on the details. It’s inevitable that artists (writers, performers, film-makers) will touch on aspects of other cultures that the artist finds objectionable and the average member of the other culture finds good and right. If the artist fails to provide the right details to establish the humanity of those performing “objectionable” cultural acts and the complexity of the setting of such acts, well, the work descends to caricature or worse, propaganda. In general, I am all for the right of individuals to make complete jackasses of themselves - otherwise known as freedom of expression (and maybe it’s a good thing - we all have jackass moments).

    Appropriation level IV: Mass marketer or manufacturer.
    Here’s the level of greatest potential offense. Those Gucci ads. Silly “African”-design jewelry posted here a while back. Retailers of bindis to non-Hindus. Plant prospectors who get indigenous Amazonians to talk about medicinal effects of Amazonian herbs, and then patent the use of the herb without giving the Amazonians a share of the patent (and profits).

    But here also are some opportunities for benefit: give the Amazonians who preserved knowledge of herbal medicine a share in the patent and an eternal right to use the herb without restriction. Pay decent wages to craftspeople making items for export.

    Appropriation level IV leads directly to appropriation level I, the consumers, whether oblivious or dilettante types.

  67. NancyP wrote:

    We are conversing in a language that has benefited from massive appropriation (and lack of “purity police” such as the Academie Francaise (sic)). You name a language - English has incorporated at least one or two words from it. That’s also part of the reason that it is a difficult language for adult learners - there’s little logic or consistency involved.

  68. Juan wrote:

    You are quite right though that soul music is associated with a (not “the”) Black Experience and it would be silly to argue that. But the real issue in my mind isn’t that white singers “stole” black music away from it’s authentic keepers…it’s that they got rich doing it, while black artists in the same position got completely screwed out of profiting from their own work. But that is an argument about racist business practices, not cultural appropriation.

    Actually those issues seem to be more one-in-the-same. They didn’t get rich in a vacuum, they got rich by taking while racist business practices, both yesterday and today, offer some form of acceptance to cultural appropriation.

    And yes, amy winehouse is a member of the dominant culture in spite of her being Jewish, she still obtains a privilege in western society for not only being thin but being white as well.

  69. morose wrote:

    Thank you for writing about Ms. Winehouse. I love Robin Thicke but I hold him in the same category.

    I also think it’s interesting to add the layers of class and access to this discussion. Like white jazz musicians who align their sound with bebop but ignore the lack of instruments in brown/black ghettos and live in posh white bubbles. I have a real issue with lack of arts/music funding and lack of instruments in poor black and brown areas while rich (heavily white) areas have tons of funding, jazz classes, heck even African dance classes. It’d be one thing if their was a great social empowerment of all people through struggle music, but since it’s only those who are already privileged, I still get rubbed the wrong way everytime I see all white jazz bands getting down in West LA.

    If anything, cultural borrowing is the capitalist way to make it in a capitalist society. I remember hearing the argument that schools needed diversity to culture the privileged sheltered girls. Let us brown students into your college so we can make your white students cultured and ready to take on the world. Bullshit. Or for instance, how business executives love Sun Tzu. Or your stressed freegan wants to relax with some yoga. Yes, we can learn from each other’s cultures but the exchange is unequal.

    This is all about power and disempowerment. Oppression and privilege.

    @Joseph. I don’t like arguments about authenticity. I agree with you that you can’t try to authenticate someone as a soul singer. Vijay Prashad argues for a polycultural view of cultures and society. There is no essential quality in a culture and no origin to a culture. This is not to say you ignore the history that shaped that culture, but you cannot claim a culture as your own. In this global society, the mixing of cultures is almost inevitable. However, this mixing cannot be done disrespectfully and without recognizing who slaved to even get their shit recorded just so you’d have a genre to perform and profit in.

    I just wanted to point out the big pink elephant that wasn’t named, just in case no one noticed it: white privilege.

  70. Joseph wrote:

    @Juan
    “And yes, amy winehouse is a member of the dominant culture in spite of her being Jewish, she still obtains a privilege in western society for not only being thin but being white as well.”

    Oh sure. If history has taught us nothing its that Europe LOVES the Jews. They love them so much they made them into lampshades and soap.

    Sometimes people make me tired.

  71. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Joseph -

    No, Juan has a point.

    See the Girl Dectective’s piece:

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/11/on-being-jewish-and-white/

    And David Schraubs’ review of this book:

    http://dsadevil.blogspot.com/2007/12/exchange-rate-of-whiteness.html

    Not all Jews have a relationship with whiteness. But some do. And that relationship is complicated and often unreliable. But that doesn’t mean it’s not there.

  72. Jennifer-Ruth wrote:

    What do you guys think about more underground white hip hop - like Ugly Duckling or El-P?

    Cultural appropriation or appreciation?

  73. The Voice of Reason wrote:

    @Jennifer-Ruth
    I was hoping someone would bring that up. From my experience in underground hip hop (as an artist and doing college radio), for a good amount of time (about 1996-2003ish) alot of the purest, rawest Hip Hop was coming from white cats with a real appreciation for the culture. And the fan bases of most underground acts (regardless of color) are often largely white. Go to a show featuring most underground artists and you’ll see lots and lots of white people.

    I’ve always found it interesting how many of my people (i’m Black) have no idea what’s going on in the roots of a culture that mostly Black and Latino people in this country created. Why are we so often willing to settle for the corporate created and marketed images of ourselves as opposed to more authentic depictions of who we are? When talking about appropriation, I think what’s left out of the discussion is how the ability to determine how we are represented in media has been jacked from POC more than anything.
    Ramble, ramble, ramble…

  74. gatamala wrote:

    L~ ramble on

  75. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @The Voice of Reason: “Why are we so often willing to settle for the corporate created and marketed images of ourselves as opposed to more authentic depictions of who we are?”

    I would say for the same reason that everyone does. Because it’s easier. It takes a lot of effort and certain levels of access (especially if you aren’t in a hub with a sizable underground hip hop culture) to get to it. It’s for the same reasons that more women will see ‘The Women’ than a small independent film written directed and produced by women. This isn’t “our” problem. It’s the a problem that most, especially marginalized groups, deal with in a corporatist culture. The internet has definitely made it easier but there’s still a ways to go.

    And I’m not sure when exactly POCs had more power than we do now to control how we’re represented in the media. That is not to say we have much but I think we’re looking for Halcyon Days that never were.

    @NancyP: Interesting presentation of points. But i would caution separating the artist from everything and everyone else (especially the mass marketer or manufacturer) and I say this as a visual artist. Those Gucci ads and the DeBeers (sigh) “Tribal” jewelry were both designed by visual creatives who consider themselves artists. And like most of us, they participate in commerce (the art market being not much different than the market for luxury goods or sneakers or lipstick).

  76. Tami wrote:

    Thanks everyone for your comments. To confirm, I don’t begrudge Amy Winehouse or Adele or Duffy their success. In fact, they are all in havy rotation on my iPod. Moreso, in fact, than Sharon Jones. My point is that inspiration/cultural appropriation is a muddy issue–very complicated. In earlier posts on American Apparel and DeBeers, some commenters seemed clueless that there could be a downside to cultural “borrowing”…it’s all homage and should be flattering to the borrowed from, they argued. I disagree. Sometimes it IS flattering homage, other times it is cynical exploitation and other times a bit of both. As someone acknowleged above, cultural borrowing is inevitable in an ever-smaller world driven by consumerism. I think we owe it to ourselves and anti-racism to sometimes examine the culture we consume.

  77. gatamala wrote:

    Why are we so often willing to settle for the corporate created and marketed images of ourselves as opposed to more authentic depictions of who we are?

    My theory is that it’s because the accumulation of wealth in a “rags to riches” way is of paramount importance to the American “story”. Now, combine that with fame via music. An American ideal would be to get rich by being a music star. Considering how black musicians were robbed in the past, perhaps they think it’s our due to be in the spotlight…no matter how worthless the “talent” is???

  78. guera wrote:

    @lxy-
    I am training in capoeira, an afro-brazilian martial art developed by slaves. The issue of appropriation in this art is huge, sometimes I hear other capoeiristas talk about it, but often not. Practitioners in the U.S. are more diverse than other martial arts, but still there is a large contingent of rich white folks.
    Even in Brazil there is a whitening issue. It was originally done in slavery, then learned and practiced on the streets. But in the 50s a new type of capoeira was formed that met in academies with classes, some say so it would be more respectable to white and upper class brazilians.

  79. Morag wrote:

    Interesting discussions - especially as cultural appropriation seems to be much more discussed and considered in the US than any of the countries I’ve lived in. Even though in England I’m politically active in anti-racist organisations, this has barely come up.

    What I’m wondering though, for those concerned about cultural appropriation, is what to do about it. Some people on this thread have talked about acknowledging or respecting the source culture, and acknowledging ones known influences is obviously polite. But I am not going to do heaps of research into Indian history every time I buy a curry or go to a yoga class - I am too surrounded by culture from many sources to investigate it all the time. I’ve lived in very multi-ethnic cities, I’m not aware, and can’t be, of a lot of sources of the things that I see every day, and would influence my designs if I were a designer.

    @morose “I still get rubbed the wrong way everytime I see all white jazz bands getting down in West LA”. Yes, it is racist that white bands get more coverage, are more likely to make money from their music, and have probably had more access to musical instruments, training etc. But what can white musicians do? Not play jazz or soul, and try to stick to mythical white music? I think that would be worse.

    I think its a good thing that cultures don’t have walls around them, that I am living with people of many backgrounds and traditions. Also if I am only supposed to use artifacts of my own and the dominant privileged white culture, unless I have time to properly acknowledge and be informed about the provenance of those artifacts and culture, then I would be starving, naked and living in the woods. I cannot think of a single human artifact obtainable in England today that has not been influenced by the mingling of many cultures.

    Estelle is right to be angry that black female musicians are ignored - but they would still be ignored and underpaid by record companies even if Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse had never sung a note. Its a continuation of the neglect and discrimination that black women are shown in general employment, in social policies, in education. Actively campaigning against that is the best way I can think of in gaining recognition for black women’s cultural work.

  80. Einna wrote:

    An idea for all those Amy Winehouse CDs: they make great reflectors on the back of your bike (if you ride a bike)!

  81. Juan wrote:

    Oh sure. If history has taught us nothing its that Europe LOVES the Jews. They love them so much they made them into lampshades and soap.

    Sometimes people make me tired.

    Okay, so other than Latoya responding before me, in post #71, and myself giggling then laughing at your response for it’s nigh-Godwin’s Law–that still does not change the reality concerning Jews who can pass/are white and in spite of being religiously and/or ethnically Jewish obtaining the privileges of white society for being such.

  82. Roxie wrote:

    It’s not even 3:30 and this has over 80 comments?!

    CORD STRUCK!

    I was thinking about this recently, but more in relationship to Duffy, who people have titled “the clean Winehouse”. I had a problem with that. I had this feeling like Winehouse was/is more authentic than Duffy—while at the same time recognizing the appropriation of Winehouse.

    Craziness.

    I also wonder how much the English peoples relationship with American blues, doo-wop, girl groups, etc plays into this…as it is often noted their reaction to the music was very different from the white american reaction.

    I am also agreed and supremely angered when talented artists of color don’t even receive half the attention of their white counterparts.

    It might be where I live (Atl, Ga) or it maybe I’m just not as out and about as I should be, but I never hear Ms. Dynamite, MIA, The Noisettes, nor Santogold on the radio.

    Estelle gets moderate play on the top 40 station.

  83. Paz wrote:

    Interesting discussion!
    I understand the author’s point, and I totally understand that it is easier for skinny, white Amy Winehouse to get exposure than for a black woman singing neo-soul, but is it really necessary for every white person to become a full fledged historian in another culture in order for them to dare even experiment with another culture’s dress/music/dance etc? I find it offensive if the person’s like “ooo, this is exotic” but what if they actually appreciate the culture for what it is? I feel like it just keeps people separate.
    Societies that have a mix of cultures, such as the Caribbean and Latin America have blended traditions. As a Mexican, I know that the Spanish have exploited indigenous populations, and consequently a mix of the two make up Mexican culture. But honestly I don’t know much about the Toltecs or Mixtecs or others. I know some words in Mexican Spanish have West African origin due to slavery there, but my knowledge of Afro-Mexican culture ends there. Am I not allowed to use those words?

  84. Jaye wrote:

    @Paz: Did you only read the article? That’s what the entire 80+ comments have been about.

  85. OW wrote:

    This thread is preciously why I tend to find discussions of cultural appropriation to be exhausting and, in the end, not terribly productive.

    For one thing, what is the difference between “cultural appropriation” and “cultural hybridity”?

    Answer: not much. They’re two sides of the same coin, which is: synthesizing of new forms of cultural expression within a matrix of power. The difference is that when a dominant group practices hybridity, we call it appropriation and when a subjugated group practices appropriation, we call it hybridity.

    Those power differences are important, in fact, they can be everything. However, the actual act itself, in any individual case, may not really be that different regardless of what side of the line you’re standing on. And in many cases, the line is so muddled, it’s an open question of if it’s worth debating to begin with:

    Example: are the Wu-Tang Clan cultural appropriators? How about Asian American indie rock bands? How about Mexican polka?

    Or how about one of the great cultural clusterfucks of all time: African American blackface minstrels…in essence, Black performers performing White performers performing “Blackness.” Who is stealing from whom?

    To me, coming up with some kind of ironclad conviction of “thief!” is far less interesting than simply trying to unpeel the layers of borrowing, exchange, theft and desire.

    As usual, what fouls all this up is money. Or as morose put it: “I just wanted to point out the big pink elephant that wasn’t named, just in case no one noticed it: white privilege.”

    I disagree that racial exploitation for profit and cultural appropriation are synonymous - they are distinctly different phenomena no matter how often they come linked together. That said, it is the legacy of that exploitation that haunts this and every conservation around cultural appropriation and as I suggested earlier, that’s a burden but a necessary one, at least if we’re to acknowledge that the past ever happened. But it’s not useful, to me, to always look at the money to the exclusion of all else. That’s why, to me, Amy is a lot more interesting to think about on her own, without having to bring in her double platinum sales into the conversation. Sure, you really should bring it in to some extent, but it’d be myopic to let it be the over-determinant.

    Small points:

    1) re: Joseph. A white Jew in America may deal with issues of anti-Semitism but relative to the stigma of Blackness and its attendant injustices, Jewishness = whiteness, IN AMERICA. I can’t speak for Britain but in any case, no one on this side of the pond would give a f— about Amy Winehouse if she was only known as some “Mercury award winner.” So, within the American context, her Jewishness is far less relevant to determining her position of privileged compared to her race. And age. And waist size.

    2) re: Paz. “Am I not allowed to use those words?” Where, exactly, has anyone suggested that linguistic hybridity is off-limits to anyone? I find it discouraging that the first defense of appropriation is always, “why are people trying to take away my rights!” as if we were talking about, you know, the Jim Crow South or Stalinist Russia. This isn’t about what you’re “allowed” to do. There’s no policing force in the world that can actually prevent cultural appropriation (though they can surely discourage it) so please, everyone, let’s not use the “allowed” button here. It’s a weak, strawman argument.

    3) re: Roxie. Let’s also keep away from “authenticity” - as hollow and constructed a concept if ever there was one. I mean, I get it: in popular culture, it’s hard to escape from the notion of authenticity but when we say, “she sounds more authentic” we’re not actually saying, “she conforms to some impossible standard of real-ness that is measurable and introvertible.” What we’re saying is, “I like how she sounds better. I really feel her music/voice.” That’s all. Authenticity is just a smoke-screen to justify our aesthetic (and quite subjective) opinions.

    4) re: Morag. “Actively campaigning against that is the best way I can think of in gaining recognition for black women’s cultural work.” If I may slightly twist that: it’s a lot more useful to support those artists who you think deserve the shine than try to limit those you think are unfairly advantaged. The latter may feel better morally but the former is actually what you’re working towards.

    5) re: Jennifer-Ruth. “What do you guys think about more underground white hip hop - like Ugly Duckling or El-P? Cultural appropriation or appreciation?” See, this is what I mean. Does this question really matter? I’m assuming you like both artists - if someone said, “they’re appropriators!” are you going to go throw out their CDs? Or even change what you feel about them as artists? I’m assuming, “no.” Likewise, if you don’t like their music, even if they are “cultural appreciators,” that’s unlikely to make you feel anymore warmly towards music you otherwise find unlistenable. Personally, I think it’s a lot more interesting to talk about what they do rather than what they “are” . I’d also add: Eminem began as an underground artist. The main difference between him and those other guys is that he sells a lot more records, not anything inherent in what he does as a rapper.

    6) re: Christian. “In the short term, it’s insulting to Sharon Jones, but I think the publicity will she has gained off the Winehouse connection will give her a giant leg up in building her name.” I agree and Jones’ last album did sell far, far better than her previous two, no doubt partially due to all the press shed on her following Winehouse’s success. But I’d note that the two artists are very, very different from a songwriting p.o.v. and really can’t be compared in that respect. Daphne Brooks hit it dead right: Jones is a lot more like the classic, bawdy blues women of the classic era than a straight up soul singers the way Jones is. Speaking on which:

    7) re: Free. “Amy Winehouse’s music and fashion sense are celebrated as pure Anglo genius at the expense of African-American music history and genius which remains obscured.” That’s not really accurate. The reason why Winehouse has gotten ANY press is because she is so obviously conversant in Black style in a way that most people recognize it as Black style. You can’t call what she does as an “obscuring” of African American music history when the genre used to describe her is “retro-soul.” In fact, the reason why her Whiteness is under discussion at all is because she’s a White singer working in what everyone hears as a Black aesthetic. If she were singing like Dolly Parton rather than Diana Ross, would we be having this conversation? Of course not. So the issue isn’t that WInehouse obscures Blackness; it’s that she’s profiting from her mimicry of Blackness without seeming to contribute in any meaningful way to the Black community.

    Whether or not she is supposed to contribute is part of what we’re arguing about here.

  86. OW wrote:

    (that should be “precisely” not “preciously” at the beginning of my last post)

  87. NancyP wrote:

    Good point, A.D. Nix. Thanks for the reminder about the different types of working conditions, markets, and constraints facing different artists.

    There are artists (writers, musicians, dancers, visual and scenic artists, ) who do “commercial” (intended to sell an object or convey a political viewpoint) art , design objects for the mass market, novelize movies or write to-specification scripts or novels (franchise sci-fi novels ; majority of television and movie scripts) - their work has to appeal to an executive (with whatever bias) and be edited to fit the executive’s bias or opinion about “what sells” before it appears in public. So who can tell about the degree of responsibility of artist and commercial client in any given final product?

    I do tend to hold the “fine artist” more responsible, simply because the constraints seem less obvious - the choices are those made by freelancers - accept a commission, or not, write or paint on speculation, or not. Freelancers usually have to please a gallery, an editor, a theater company, in order to get buyers or an audience, but I’d guess that there is a lot more wiggle room in dealing with niche audiences than with the general audience - hence, more responsibility for their choice and manner of appropriation and for giving credit where credit is due. (And then there are artists with academic appointments - they have to please other academics (and avoid offending alumni donors or state legislators) until tenure is granted.

    It seems like a hard road, trying to earn as a professional artist.

  88. morose wrote:

    @Morag - Let me clarify by saying that there’s nothing wrong with white jazz bands in West LA. The issue is when their overabundance can be linked to extremely well funded arts programs in rich white areas while poor non-white areas have little or no funding for the arts.

  89. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @OW -

    Okay Professor, I’m going to have to rap your knuckles with a ruler for a second.

    1. If you don’t like discussions surrounding cultural appropriation, you don’t have to participate in them. But one of the reasons we are launching this series is because there is so little information about it available that *isn’t* in the form of an academic paper. This is the first of at least six - I’m penning three or four, I am asking Thea and Jessica to pen one, and Andrea might throw one in as well.

    2. I know you’re a teacher, but I’m going to need you to slow your roll. This is *my* space. So, if Paz is asking what’s allowed, Roxie is asking about authenticity, and Jennifer-Ruth is trying to resolve feelings about Ugly Duckling all this is fine as we haven’t really hashed any of those things out yet.

    The mod will set the boundaries for discussion, thanks. I would hope you choose to participate, but you aren’t drawing up the rules.

    (Oh, and Jennifer-Ruth - I have no idea what Ugly Duckling does over here on US shores, but theydid a ridiculously fabulous remix of M-Flo/Crystal Kay’s “Get On.” So that right there starts them in good graces.)

  90. Jennifer-Ruth wrote:

    Thanks for the replies!
    I wasn’t suggesting that I was going to throw out my Ugly Duckling CD’s in horror if the majority opinion was that they have appropriated black culture. But I have wondered about it (for the record, I’m white). For example, they have a fanbase over here in the UK and often tour in Europe - the gigs are small, usually at University’s and the like. When I went to see them at Manchester University I couldn’t help but notice that the audience was (not all of it, but most of it) white. Now, Manchester is quite multi-culturally diverse. Yet - the audience for a hip-hop act was the mainly white. And the band themselves were white. Yet, the music is based in black culture. I don’t think it is wrong to ask why that might be, even if I do love their music.

    Latoya - I haven’t actually heard that remix, so I will definitely search it out. Thanks!

  91. OW wrote:

    Latoya,

    Don’t take my brusque manner for being, um, brusque. I mean, we’re all just yammering here, myself definitely included. I’m not trying to actually proscribe limits on a conversation; more like suggesting alternative ways of thinking about it.

    So it’s not that I’m saying, “tsk tsk tsk, don’t talk about cultural appropriation!” What I am saying is strictly a matter of opinion: they rarely seem productive because people tend to lose sight of what is meant to be the central issues: exploitation, subjugation, oppression. Instead, there’s this pull towards distractions, “are you saying I shouldn’t make sushi for dinner parties if I’m not Japanese?” or, on the other hand, suggestions that a performer’s Whiteness alone is sufficient to make the case for appropriation.

    I think the main criteria has to center around the question of exploitation. Without it, as I suggested, appropriation and hybridity are practically identical. Personally, I don’t really care who is appropriating who but I do care who is exploiting who.

    And for the record - and future - my profession is something you raised, not I. I almost never throw my “professor card” out in these kind of forums; I prefer being a voice in the crowd, whose opinions are judged on their merits, not by whatever degree is hanging on my wall. I would assume everyone in this forum would want the same consideration.

    Mod Note - Whoops, I apologize for that one. If you did not intend to formerly add your profession into the mix, it is my fault for raising it. But the original point still stands - if you are frustrated with the conversation, that’s understandable, but don’t chide individual commenters on what kind of things to stay away from, especially if I haven’t set those kinds of rules. - LDP

  92. OW wrote:

    Jennifer: You’re raising an interesting point, one that’s been batted around in the US press for the last 10 years, but hasn’t arrived at much a conclusion: what’s up with rap bands with mostly (if not only) white fans? Bakari Kitwana wrote a book on this very topic a few years ago (”Why White Kids Love Hip Hop”) that you may want to look up.

    I think one reason UD attracts a mostly white following is because their style of hip-hop is out of the mainstream of what youth in black neighborhoods listen to. Compare radio playlists or mix-CD tracks in black neighborhoods and a group like UD just doesn’t map on; their sound (by today’s standards) is anachronistic for hip-hop; its aesthetic is very much early ’90s. Black listeners, by and large, have not shown an interest in preserving a nostalgic hold on that moment to the same extent as white listeners.

    One thing, to go back to Sharon Jones for a moment: I forgot to add that another unspoken irony in the Amy vs. Sharon debate is that BOTH women attract overwhelmingly White audiences. I’ve heard Jones quip that at some shows, she’s the ONLY Black person in the venue (which, based on my experience, is probably not an exaggeration).

    So even if Jones is “realer” than Winehouse, what it does it say that Jones’ brand of soul is backed by an almost-all-white band and her crowds are mostly white? Does that make everyone in the room, except for her, an appropriator?

  93. Fatemeh wrote:

    This is a great post, Tami! I’m bookmarking it so I can link it up when someone asks, “What’s so bad about [insert racist cultural appropriation here]?”

  94. Joseph wrote:

    @Latoya
    You misunderstand me.

    While the relationship of Semitic peoples to whiteness is unstable in the US, Europe is a whole different ball game. We (the US) have a history of assimilation into “normative” whiteness (something that Black people can never do) but in Europe they sure don’t. In the same way that tribal differences in Africa are often invisible to US Americans (As in: why can’t they get along if they are both Black?) these divisions are deep and bloody, even among people who might seem to us, based on our understanding of what the term means, both “white.” Europe has a history of demonizing, marginalizing and periodically slaughtering eastern/Semetic peoples that pre-dates Christ. That is the history of the “western society” that Juan claims Amy Winehouse is a dominant member of.

    In a word, no.

    I am not arguing that Jewishness doesn’t ever equal whiteness, which has attendant privileges. I am saying that semitic people in general and Jews in particular are NEVER truly part of the dominant class in the West long term. Never. And arguing that they are requires a disturbing, willful ignorance of western history. Especially when we are talking about Europe, whose Jewish population was almost entirely exterminated less than 70 years ago.

    I think you know I would never argue that African Americans did not suffer under slavery and don’t continue to suffer due to institutionalized racism–but acknowledging another narrative of historic oppression does not obscure the suffering of Black people. And understanding Winehouse as a member of a historically oppressed minority does not excuse her remarks–if anything it gives them a deeper context. Why resist that?

    re: The OP
    US American popular culture would barely exist without the innovations of African American artists. So the use of “cultural appropriation” in this instance seems especially self-defeating to me. The broad dispersal of forms that originated in a Black experience is a sign of their vibrant success, not failure. Soul music is an art form. One of many (tap, blues, jazz, hip hop, etc. ) that was innovated by Black American artists that now has global currency and circulation. Soul music, like opera and ballet, is performed and appreciated all over the planet. It is a living tradition. And that is a good thing. To wish that it were smaller and more local is to wish for its failure. Speaking as an artist, I find that frankly bizarre.

    As I said, the racist business practices that keep artists of color from directly benefiting from their innovations is a real problem–and there are tons of examples of this in the history of US American music. But that is not really the point of the OP. And the assertion that a scabby, skanky (not incidentally Jewish) junkie’s “Whitenss” and “thinness” are somehow responsible for the smaller scale of Sharon Jones’s success is just silly…You want to have a conversation about whether or not Winehouse’s junkie self would even still have a career if she were black? I would show up for that conversation with my “hell no” at the ready. The fact the she is allowed to fall apart in public like this and that her decline is even glamorized as part of her image… there’s your white privilege at work. But again, that is more a function of a racist marketplace than the “cultural appropriation” of a particular art form.

    Do I think what Winehouse said is acceptable? Hell no.

    Do I think she should suffer consequences in the marketplace as a result? Hell yes.

    But lets be real about why, okay?

  95. unprovenmind wrote:

    browngirlinthering: “…however as a general statement I think musical sycretism (as opposed to musical appropriation) is important — i would say essential — and can be a very positive aspect of the globalization of music.”

    Yes! I was about to say the exact same thing, but you said it first, and probably better (I’m pretty sure I would have come off as a damn hippie.)

    Music and art are universally human, I like it when disparate musical and artistic traditions are brought together by the way they both touch the same part of our minds. As a visual artist, I am inspired by work from every artistic tradition, and once a meme from one of these has become ingrained in my psyche, it starts to pop up in my work. I suspect that musicians are the same way. They listen to the music they like, and it integrates with the workings of their minds in subtle and subconscious ways, becoming part of them. Then it can’t not come out in their work.

  96. browne wrote:

    My issue with this is the same as many others stated. I don’t care that people appropriate a culture I care that only white people are able to make money from it.

    It goes the same for writing. A white guy can be totally hardcore in an alternative paper and talk about race and culture and not hold back. This guy will get awards and book deals. I as a black woman can write the exact same thing and can’t even get it published. That’s the problem. Art belongs to everyone. A struggle can be universal, but those who are allowed to be leaders, make money and get all of the kudos always seem to look the same and that’s the crappy part of it.

    I think Winehouse is talented but I think Sharon is too, why is only Winehouse able to make money off of it and why is Sharon only ok after Winehouse breaks through?

    Everyone always talks about sharing and universal, but when it comes to money that talks seems to be nothing more than talk.

    Why are the only people allowed to survive in the humanities fields that are non commercial based (writing, art, music, etc) are people who look like the people writing and signing the checks?

  97. Cara wrote:

    I think it’s a bit backwards nowadays to think of certain types of music as being ‘black’ or ‘white’. People are mixing, music genres are mixing.

  98. Joseph wrote:

    @Browne
    Cosign.

  99. browne wrote:

    You know I was thinking about Sharon and how yes in general her audience is white, so what’s up with black owned radio stations?

    Why isn’t she on heavy rotation on BET (I don’t have TV I just am assuming she is not) and other urban stations, why hasn’t Russel Simons are Puff Daddy or any of the other major producers picked her up and run with her…I’m thinking probably for the same reason white or mainstream producers and record companies haven’t.

    I mean in general does Sharon want minor success or does she want mainstream success. Is she making a conscious effort to not reach out to the black community or has the black community not been all that into her?

    Sharon if she wants mainstream Amy success and has purposely and consciously shunned the urban radio stations (which I am not saying she has) but if she has then it’s kind of a vicious circle isn’t it.

    She wants to stay popular with her white audience so she purposely distances herself from the urban audience, the white mainstream producers thinks she not marketable, because she looks to urban…so who should be mad at who.

    I’ve seen this kind of thing play out with quite a few people of color and in general at times while I wish they would get more play at times I kind of go, well you know you could totally make a nice little living catering to a black audience or a latino audience or a asian-american audience and you could make enough to support yourself and your art, but you want to chase the big gold under the fake rainbow and now you’re nowhere…

    I don’t know I am simply putting it out there maybe Sharon is not that person, but what if she is and what about people who are that person.

    If you’re an artist, a real artist, then it’s about the art, not the audience and yes the appropration question is a good one, but what about that ethnic artist that only wants to sell that art to the largest audience possible and purposely ignores the people who that art is from (even if they are a member of that group), is that better, is that allowed, is this too messy of a question…

    Think about Bruce Lee, he could have made plenty of cash and had a nice life had he just focused on the peopel who liked him in Asia, but he wanted to be an American star…what’s the big deal about that audience. You can make 100 million dollars instead of 2 million, it’s still a million, it’s still alot.

    If Essence magazine wanted me to be a staff writer and paid me a little bit a money I would take it and be happy and work that job to death.

    I think at times too many people of color view other people of color (history, experience, audience etc…) as their stepping stone instead of their destination.

    Do I think too much…lol…

  100. Jaye wrote:

    But this is not just about Amy and Sharon. There have been plenty of AA singers that have had phenomenal success, so it’s not like ONLY white “soul” singers get success.
    It’s kind of like we’re at a crossroads…where some of the old standards do apply, and you are getting some cultural appropriation, and it is easier for white singers in some respects.

    At the same time, look at rap…besides Eminem, what white rapper has been able to really break out and achieve mainstream success? All the most successful rappers are black except for him…at the same time, lauding a white rapper as the BEST living rapper of all time, as many white music journalists tend to about Eminem…there’s definitely some appropriating going on over there, or if not that, I don’t know…something…
    Still, other than him, you don’t really see or hear about many white rappers in a significant way. So I feel like things are changing that you can’t see it in exactly black and white terms, at the same time, those black-white terms still exist and still have power, but not the same kind of power it used to have or in the exact same way…and the traditionally “powerless” are also not as voiceless as they used to be, and that definitely changes the dynamic too.
    I think things are changing is my point, but not quite enough.

  101. Ange wrote:

    Joseph: I don’t have the time or inclination to get into the sugar with you, because I strongly disagree with a lot of what you wrote.

    THAT SAID. I HEART YOU FOR NAME CHECKING HELEN TERRY. She’s one of my faves.

    If she hadn’t been a plump bird she would’ve been the 80s version of Dusty.

    Two words: “Black Money”.

    Carry on.

  102. Matthew wrote:

    Very interesting article - however, I would make the case that Winehouse is an easy target. Also, like the belly dancer, if I was to take salsa dancing, or martial arts, or learn how to play the steel drums, or any number of multicultural activity options available to me in the western world, and I don’t deeply research every aspect of the cultural context and significance (not that I would not want to learn this), am I guilty of cultural appropriation? If so, I find this situation problematic.

    Culture has always had fluid defninitions, but they have become even more so in the modern world. To declare something exclusively black, white or Latino can eventually ossify culture, placing place it in a museum or theme park situation, where people put on their colourful national costumes for a while, then get changed into their jeans and go home.

    Who determines what is appropriated, and by whom? Music critics? Sociologists? Representatives of ethnic communities? The government?

    I’ve seen Palestinian rappers and Filipino Hip-hop dancers and vice versa. Many of them have no better knowledge of the cultural background and context of their preferred art form than many white rapper and hip-hop dancer wannabees. Are they permitted their appropriation because they too come from minorities that experience systematic racism from North America’s white majority? I did have one person tell me that Filipinos have more right to hip-hop than white people because they’re closer in colour to black people. I’m not trying to create a straw man arguement, but this also seems problematic to me.

    I’ve also heard Filipino parents complain that their kids are abandoning their heritage in favour of hip-hop. Does this make “black” culture (as defined by who?) an agressive force that is assimiliating other cultures? Or is it mainstream “white” culture (as defined by what?) having appropriated “black” culture and now using it to assimilate minorities? If this is so, why is it less legitimate for “whites” to participate in it? Is this because it is still, despite being appropriated, seen as “black?” Whose culture is it, and who decides?

    I’m not denying that cultural appropriation occurs , racism has certainly allowed white musicians in the twenty first century to achieve success with essentially stolen tunes. But white musicians also stole white music.

    I’m also a believer that greater awareness is always better. Heck, I didn’t want to buy a Che Guevara t-shirt until I’d at least read his biography and decided if I could get behind his ideas and principles. However, is it even possible for anyone in the mass culture environment to be aware of all their cultural borrowings.

    Even the writer of the article missed one - they mention Halloween and imply that it is appropriated from Voudou. However, I’m pretty sure a great portion of the Halloween tradition is actually appropriated from Ancient European Celtic culture and its celebration of Samhain, aka All Hallow’s Eve, aka Halloween. Perhaps there are some Voudou roots I’m not aware of, or the author is referring to people who dress up in “Voudou” costumes (along with all the other costumes that could be offensive for appropriation and other reasons).

    Anywho, this is an interesting topic, and the article is thought provoking, to say the least.

  103. OW wrote:

    re: Browne’s point #1: “I think Winehouse is talented but I think Sharon is too, why is only Winehouse able to make money off of it and why is Sharon only ok after Winehouse breaks through?”

    I hear what you’re saying here but I think we’d be making a mistake to assume the two artists are similar artists just because they share the same backing band and, on a very general level, are both considered soul or retro-soul artists.

    In the grand scheme of things, those are superficial similarities. Amy’s songwriting and Sharon’s songwriting are world’s apart and with Amy in particular, she rose to fame mostly off the strength of “Rehab” - a song as ready made for the MTV/TMZ generation as you could imagine and it is definitely NOT the kind of song Sharon Jones has ever written.

    I’ve been guilty of this in the past myself but I think it’s too facile to assume the two artists are identical save for age, race and size. They’re very different artists in terms of the kind of music they make and who their target audience is. Jones and the Dap-Kings wouldn’t mind selling platinum if they could do it on their terms but the way the music market is right now, that’s not going to happen.

    Jones is different - she switched up her sound rather dramatically b/t “Frank” and “Back to Black” and working with Mark Ronson and Salaam Remi to produce the latter album was pretty savvy in terms of their cred with hip-hop and contemporary R&B audiences which is where Jones aimed her songs. In fact, the reason I first learned anything about Jones was through hip-hop blogs; she clearly had some kind of cachet with them in ways that Jones didn’t because Jones isn’t trying to duet with Nas or Young Jeezy.

    A better comparison to Winehouse would be someone like Imani Coppola of the Brooklyn group, Little Jackie. Her previous songwriting was far closer to what we hear from Winehouse (but her music was not). Had Coppola (who is a woman of color) been making retro-soul music but with her style of song topics and flopped and then Amy came out and totally crushed the charts, there’d be a far better point of comparison. Ironically, Little Jackie is totally biting Mark Ronson’s sound for their new album which came out earlier this summer and I don’t think it’s really gone anywhere but at this point, it’s they who sound derivative of Winehouse (and fairly so, in my opinion).

    re: Browne’s point #2: “does Sharon want minor success or does she want mainstream success. Is she making a conscious effort to not reach out to the black community or has the black community not been all that into her?”

    This, I think, is a very interesting question. There was a very provocative popmatters.com piece about this from earlier this year that basically said: “Black people are not nostalgic to relive the music of their parent’s generation,” thus explaining why retro-soul is big with non-Blacks (as evidenced by any retro-soul show you got to) but doesn’t seem very interesting or compelling to Black media outlets. The author’s suggestion was that, for Black communities, the ’60s represents things besides Big Chill-style nostalgia for baby boomers - it also represents hard struggles and a world of overt racism no sane person would want to return to. Rather than paraphrase, people are welcome to check it out on their own:
    http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/55673/retelling-the-history-of-black-music-part-i-adventures-in-retro-ism

    I asked Mark Anthony Neal, who some of you may know for his copious writing and scholarship on Black music, and Mark didn’t really buy that premise at all. He thought the lack of BET or Black radio interest in retro-soul had more to do with limitations in marketing and other structural issues rather than any inherent dislike for reviving past music styles.

    On that note: it will be interesting to see how Raphael Sadeeq’s new album does on Black radio given that it is 110% retro-soul styled.

    re: Cara’s point: “I think it’s a bit backwards nowadays to think of certain types of music as being ‘black’ or ‘white’. People are mixing, music genres are mixing.”

    I think racism is a bit backwards but surprise! We still are dealing with it. So long as market forces within society dictate disparities in success rates along racial lines - however false those racial lines are - it’s still part of the reality that has to be dealt with.

    There’s never been a “pure” music racially in American history. It’s always been mixed. But that hasn’t stopped the music industry from creating categories like “race music” back in pre-WWII America (we now call it “urban contemporary” but really, that just means “a more p.c. way of saying race music”) even though things like the blues and early jazz sold across racial lines all the time. It’s all artificial but the realities that come from it - materially especially - are quite tangible.

    Most would surely agree with you: genres are mixing, have been mixing, will be mixing…but the main issue here is one of privilege and exploitation and those challenges, alas, are not shared in any kind of equal “mixture.”

  104. OW wrote:

    Ugh, I wish there were an edit function. In this paragraph:
    “Jones is different - she switched up her sound rather dramatically b/t “Frank” and “Back to Black” and working with Mark Ronson and Salaam Remi to produce the latter album was pretty savvy in terms of their cred with hip-hop and contemporary R&B audiences which is where Jones aimed her songs. In fact, the reason I first learned anything about Jones was through hip-hop blogs; she clearly had some kind of cachet with them in ways that Jones didn’t because Jones isn’t trying to duet with Nas or Young Jeezy.”

    I meant WINEHOUSE at the very beginning, not Jones. This is what I get for catching up on my blog reading at midnight. So that paragraph should actually read:

    “AMY is different - she switched up her sound rather dramatically b/t “Frank” and “Back to Black” and working with Mark Ronson and Salaam Remi to produce the latter album was pretty savvy in terms of their cred with hip-hop and contemporary R&B audiences which is where AMY aimed her songs. In fact, the reason I first learned anything about AMY was through hip-hop blogs; she clearly had some kind of cachet with them in ways that SHARON didn’t because SHARON isn’t trying to duet with Nas or Young Jeezy.”

  105. Westerly wrote:

    browne: I agreed with your post (96), though at the same time I also think that it is much more complicated than just hard “dollars and cents.” Capitalism alone cannot fully account for the other social rewards that are bestowed upon those who benefit from appropriation/mimicry - or appreciation/syncreticism for that matter.

    These include social and artistic status, being situated in a musical canon/historical narrative, (while others are excluded), the promise of ‘posterity’, down to more material opportunities such as getting to play to certain audiences, choices of gigs/locations, further opportunities to record and develop, open cultural and historical access to ‘other’ music along with the ability or ‘right’ to re-articulate it etc.

    While some of these rewards (or privileges) are clearly connected to the concrete reward of “making money”, for me at least, they’re not all ‘one and the same’. Still, the issue of access to material reward is a critical one. However, what really burns me up about appropriation is that various cultures have to fight against their appropriators simply to gain access to their own effort, creativity, knowledge and culture.

    It’s not just financial benefits. One of the very real ‘benefits’ of access might include simply knowing what your own culture looks like and how it operates beyond the cheesy, de-humanising lens of appropriation.

    It might involve having access to cultural artifacts or tropes of cultural knowledge rather than having those artifacts locked up in a gallery or museum, or being unable to access traditions and practices that, outside of the conditions of appropriation would have been a birthright.

    It might involve the very existence of a cultural art-form as opposed to it being selectively cherry-picked, dismembered, distorted and hawked out of existence. It might involve those who have their land and resources divvied up by colonialism NOT being forced to peddle off their cultural, creative and intellectual ‘capital’ as though they were the last, tattered rags off their backs – simply to furnish the hollow centre of insatiable metropolitan sites.

    Then there was this, also from browne:
    “If you’re an artist, a real artist, then it’s about the art, not the audience and yes the appropriation question is a good one, but what about that ethnic artist that only wants to sell that art to the largest audience possible and purposely ignores the people who that art is from (even if they are a member of that group), is that better, is that allowed, is this too messy of a question…”

    I think that it’s a great question. I think that this leads into the question of class, and of hierarchy among people of colour. I agree with you and do think that it is possible for people to hawk off parts of their own culture to the highest bidder, and that the rich (in a given culture) can appropriate and lay ownership/exclusive access to the creative efforts of the poor.

    This actually leads me back to a part of Joseph’s post (94) that I strongly disagree with. I could be incorrect, but funnily enough I don’t recall any other posts on this thread that demanded that art-forms such as soul, blues or jazz remain “small and local.” (Then again I could have missed it since this is a long thread!)

    However, since the issue has been raised (by Joseph), I think that its one that’s worth considering. If an art-form does remain small, local, and ‘obscure’ (in relation to a Western audience) does that mean that that art-form, and the artists who create it, have “failed”?

    Too often, gaining ‘global’ recognition is often code for “being acknowledged in metropolitan centres by social elites.” (Many artists who seek so-called “global recognition” for their art couldn’t care less about their art reaching a citizen of Djibouti for example.)

    ‘Global’ doesn’t really speak to or of the world, but refers to a hierarchy comprised of ‘global’ centres and peripheries.

    However, this raises the question of what art is “for” and who it is intended for. It also leads me to ask questions about the intentions of artists, which surely won’t be uniform.

    I’m not a dilettante who insists that artists must toil and starve, unacknowledged in the attic.

    I’m aware that for some artists critical and financial success in metropolitan centers is what they consciously aim for, and is the over-riding measure of their failure or success. But while access to as wide an audience as possible is a legitimate artistic aim, I don’t think that it is (or should be) the only aim or motivation behind art. Nor should it be the sole measure of artistic success.

    Success is surely related to the artists intentions (in part), whatever they may be. And given the range of artists that exist, I don’t think that anyone can easily say that art is strictly “for” anything or that it has a specific job to do.

    For example, some people create art with a restrictive audience in mind - sometimes as small as an audience of one, as they are only seeking their own personal satisfaction. But does that invalidate their work as ‘art’?

    Or what about the artist who creates wonderful art, but who couldn’t care less about what someone in London might think of it - yet cares very much about reaching the minds, emotions, and wallets of their immediate community? What if this artist has a specific community or culture in mind that he or she wishes to address and succeeds in doing so? Does this conversation *have* to take place on a global stage to have merit?

    If these artists succeed in their goals, are these irrelevant because their work hasn’t gained “global currency and circulation”? Is ‘worthwhile’ or successful art, only in dialogue with the “global”? Furthermore, what if you have artists or cultures who seek relationship rather than exposure - who aren’t seeking the widest possible audience and may even be satisfied to converse with the audience that they do have? Are they consigning themselves to ‘failure’?

    And… what if they are artists in a given community and culture that try to halt the inevitable ‘globalisation’ of their art? What if they want it to remain exclusively local? I have no easy answer to this last one, but I’m not sure that such a response is necessarily ‘parochial’ or defeatist. In certain circumstances it could be a perfectly legitimate, even sane response.

    While I am all in favour of ‘cultural syncreticism’, I think that the conditions under which it occurs is extremely important. If there is a genuine process of cultural contact where there is a willing and open exchange of ideas and traditions, and all of the participants benefit from it - then I think that most people would be extremely eager to participate. It’s a part of human culture.

    But then there is the highly distorted variant of this. What if it’s occurring under coercive conditions of cultural conquest or a dynamic of dominance? More likely than not, the end result will be a rather one-sided form of cultural appropriation rather than an empowering hybridisation that all parties benefit from.

    Consequently, I can fully understand why some artists might not think that their art going ‘mainstream’ or ‘global’ is automatically wonderful or even desirable - particularly if it is almost guaranteed that the art will go forward while they (the artists) will be left in the dust, or worse, divorced from their own art as control is wrested out of their hands.

    I think the thing that bothered me, is that you seem to assume that there is only one ’sensible’ rationale behind being an artist (i.e. get the biggest audience)

    As I said, while that’s a legitimate aim, it’s not the be-all and end-all of art.

  106. Winn wrote:

    @ Westerly

    Damn! I can’t enumerate all the ways that I cosign with that post!

  107. browne wrote:

    Westerly and OW,

    Wow. Thanks for those in depth responses. I will definitely check out OW’s blog, Westerly you don’t have one, so I can’t check it.

    I have to say, that possibly there other reasons people want to go “pop.” In the figurative sense of course. In the middle of the night though, when I’m writing my little drivel and submitting it I am just thinking about me. Yeah that’s selfish, but in general I don’t care what others are doing with their art. I know lots of artists get upset about the misappropriation thing, but I have to be honest, I don’t care. I find most mainstream MTV, commercially produced “art” offensive and bad and most of it is pretty hacky. Even the African-Americans who do make it, have hacked that work from poorer less connected African-Americans. I think of the many articles and books written by African-Americans about rural life, the inner city by people who are privileged and parents and grandparents went to Morehouse and Spellman and were part of the elite and how they steal experiences from poor black people and sell as “authentic”. Who is stealing what? Who is misappropriating what? The privileged of every group will steal and they won’t even acknowledge that it is stealing.

    I’m not part of any elite. My father didn’t even go to high school. My grandfather I don’t think ever even went to school, so I can’t concern myself with these kinds of things. I think only people who are part of an elite (an every group has them) are the people who get most irritated by these kinds of things, but me being who I am I am not even a big fish in a little pond, so I have to just focus on what I do, so while I understand that the misappropriation thing is more than just about money. Me being the little person that I am with no hook ups or grand history other than my grandfather served Billie Holiday a drink once…I concern myself with struggle that I can touch.

    I think about how many African-American artists had if you look back far enough pretty cushy background for the time that they came up in. And even when I go to poetry readings in LA. You don’t know how many poc from Baldwin Hills and Ladera write about the harsh realities of inner city life, like it’s their story. Their parents are lawyers and doctors, so in essence if we going to talk about misappropriation are we going to go there. Wanda Coleman went there and she still hasn’t recovered. How far are we willing to go back with it? Because the vast majority of people who made it regardless of their ethnic background stole their sound and looks from someone who was further down the class ladder.

    Even the punk scene which started out with poor white kid from Britain who had to sell their bodies for cash and ended up being about rich kids from Orange County.

  108. Joseph wrote:

    @Ange
    (I did get myself in the sugar this time, didn’t I? Berf.)

    I know, right? I have been thinking of Helen Terry a lot lately because I just saw Yaz in New York and Alison Moyet (another plump bird) sounded freaking fantastic. Like no time at all had passed. Made me feel 17.

    @OW
    I’d never suggest that art is only successful if it draws a large audience (I’m an artist and If you knew my work, you’d see immediately how funny a thought that is). I wasn’t talking about the “success” or “failure” of individual artists, the terms of which are set by artists themselves, I was talking about the international currency of the art form itself.

  109. Joseph wrote:

    Oops. that should have been @Westerly, not OW. Sorry.

  110. Winn wrote:

    @Joseph,

    We have been locking swords throughout these comments but I just have to say I feel you on Alison Moyet. I saw Yaz a couple of months ago at the Lakewood Theatre here in Dallas and damn! Girlfriend’s vocals were on fiyah! She was really taking me back to the first time I heard “Upstairs at Eric’s”. A phenomenal talent who has never received her due beyond a cult following. Partly because she’s a “plump bird”, but I think more so because she’s a unique talent that is not easily categorized.

  111. Ange wrote:

    @Joseph - leaving aside cultural appropriation/misappropriation what are your thoughts (and others) on how it seems US based white “Soul/R&B” artists are held to a seemingly different standard, it terms of how much evidence is required to “prove” their appropriating imagery and culture not their own.

    If you were to ask people which artist is appropriating (Em or Amy) I suspect more people would state that Em’s hip hop was clearly some white dude profiting off black folk’s culture, when in reality Em has been somewhat vocal about this issue in his work.

    I think I have been guilty of giving a “pass” to artists coming out the UK (this also might be from growing up overseas where it seemed EVERY single white UK artist from Robert Palmer to The Beautiful South to Jason Donovan [okay he’s an Aussie and I’d dating myself] seem to affect a soul persona) and being really suspicious of every single US based white artist singing “Soul”.

    How does this factor in to how the artists position themselves on the authenticity continuum?

  112. Ange wrote:

    @Joseph- Ms. Moyet owns my soul completely. She and Helen Terry (as well as Pearl Bailey and Martha Wash) gave me a way to construct myself a glamorous fattie when I was growing up.

  113. Westerly wrote:

    @Joseph - if I’ve misread your post and your intentions - apologies. Still, for me ‘international currency’ can be a tricky one (blessing and curse etc.) I certainly don’t know you or your work well enough to know what your personal aims are or where you sell. My long-winded post was just a hypothetical “what if.” I didn’t have any concrete artists in mind.

    But back to another part of your post - I do agree with you however, that Amy’s racial status and identity in her own country is complicated. This was particularly borne out in the early “Joss Stone vs. Amy who?” days, when Joss (blonde, pretty, ‘fit’, slim, white-girl-with-soul) was all the rage.

    In the meantime Amy who (imo) was talented, but also visibly curvy, dark-haired, ‘funny’-looking, with a ‘can’t-quite-place-her-ethnicity’ air about her - wasn’t any where near as popular.

    The first time I saw Amy in a video, I thought that she might have Middle-Eastern blood in her… I wondered about it. At the same time it occurred to me that just because she wasn’t ‘anglo’, it didn’t completely exclude the possibility that she could be white. (Maybe Greek?)

    So it’s been interesting for me to watch how the Joss/Amy polarity has reversed. Amy’s image has correspondingly morphed into the emaciated, bee-hive wearing, sixties-style echo of a wreck that is now famous.

    Her anorexic frame and Supremes-meet-Maria Callas stylings, along with her whole ‘frank’ bad-girl rebel persona; her descent into rock ‘n roll self-destruction (with measures of Billie Holliday and more significantly, Courtney Love thrown in); her drunk-and-disorderly behaviour, and her coy, but ultimately frivolous flirtation with sexual orientation are race markers.

    Markers, that more often than not tend to be inscribed as ‘white’ (and of course ‘oh-so-rock ‘n’ roll’) in white-dominated societies and more importantly, by a white-dominated media.

    This, along with her current Eminem style racist ‘faux-pas’ is gaining her a kind of exposure on par with the young, the thin, the ‘white’, and the ‘badly-behaved’ (i.e. Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, or dare-I-say it - dear old Britney.) Concerns over her thinness are up their with Keira Knightley and Emma Watson. Among white young female celebs there is a current self-destruction zeitgeist that is a source of fascination (for some).

    I’m know that there might be plenty of non-white stars who are anorexic, who are drug-addicted and/or alcohol-addled, who toy with sexuality as if it were a play-thing, who are saucily ‘frank’ and who are self-destructing all over the place - but the point is, most Western media in the main, doesn’t give a damn about them. It doesn’t find their personal implosion particularly interesting and doesn’t seek to place it left, right and centre-stage. (Whitney Houston may have been notable exception.)

    These behaviours may occur everywhere but are only compelling viewing and cause for outrage/concern (in the “West”) when they are attached to bodies that are young, female, starved and white - or bodies that can be perceived/constructed as such. There is a symbolic investment in these bodies. Hence they are ‘inscribed’ as white.

    It’s not that I think that Amy is ethnically “white” - I don’t - and I think that in a variety of contexts her Jewishness would be enforced or hammered home in less-than-pleasant ways.

    But in some contexts - such as pop-media, she gets to borrow some of the trappings of a white artist. I think that she’s currently performing some of the privileges of whiteness. (And an integral part of performing whiteness is the ability to perform blackness.)

    Yes, in articles her Jewishness is acknowledged, often mentioned as a passing biographical aside. But the way in which she is analysed and discussed is telling.

    For example, there is the fact that she is routinely compared to Josh Stone or even Teena Marie (the ultimate white r ‘n’b diva who was embraced by African-Americans and who Winehouse cites as one of her favourite singers) and a plethora of simply superlative black female singers (Vaughn, Holliday, Washington, James, Smith, Simone, Hill etc.) rather than to OTHER Jewish artists.

    One of the hallmarks of being marked as “white” is that you are compared to whites - and constantly measured against their alleged antithesis (i.e. blacks) (As OW mentioned earlier, part of the fuss about Winehouse is based on ‘marvelling’ over how well she works within an identifiably black tradition, when she is clearly ‘not-black’. She gets simplistically positioned on the other side of the binary.)

    Then there are the type of prying questions that she is asked - the obsessive concern with her body, her weight, her sexuality, the state of her love-life, the moralising and hand-wringing (the ‘please don’t die Amy!’ pleas that are issued through the media etc.) - it’s a type and degree of attention that is only extended to favoured white girls (talented or otherwise), and occasionally to those rare non-white artists who are recognised as non-white but who nevertheless, resonate with whites.

    Perhaps, in the end it doesn’t matter so much whether or not Amy is perceived/positioned as a “white girl” - what it really comes down to is whether she is an object of interest/concern/discipline for white people.

  114. Winn wrote:

    @ Ange,

    Interesting reference to The Beautiful South. Perhaps this just goes to show where geographical subjectivity comes in, as I never thought of them as a particularly “soulful” group. I felt that much more in their previous incarnation as The Housemartins, with songs like “I’ll Be Your Shelter”, which was more gospel-influenced, and their cover of “Caravan of Love”. But now that I think on it, I can definitely hear the soul elements in Heaton and Hemingway’s voal style. One of the things that always attracted me to them was the quintessential (and undoubtedly, to a degree, stereotypical) “Englishness” of their song’s lyrical content; those kitchen-sink dramas and songs about newspaper glamor models and pub crawlers. I always thought that was part of the reason they never broke in the US; regardless of a soulful persona, they never had a sound or content accessible enough to American ears.

  115. RoslynHolcomb wrote:

    If you want to check out the ‘Elvis’ of the romance novel genre take a gander at the author, J.R. Ward and her ‘Black Dagger Brotherhood.’

    Ward has these very white vampires who inhabit a hip-hop world where there are no black people. They drive Escalades, wear bling and speak hip-hop language Snoop Dogg style circa 1992.

    Of course, Ward denies their wannabe status and points out that they don’t have a race, they’re vampires. Never mind that if she had written these vampires as black she would not have experienced the wild success she has. Indeed her books would most likely be placed in the ‘negro’ section of the bookstore. At least they would be if she were black, but since she’s white they’re in the romance section of the store. Unlike romances written by black authors.

  116. Joseph wrote:

    @Ange &Winn

    Beautiful South? Damn, that takes me back…
    I was over the moon to see and hear Allison Moyet live. If you get the chance, jump at it, she was amazing. Her voice is deeper but just as big: she broke my heart.

    It’s funny you’d bring up Eminem Ange, because for me the innovative thing about him isn’t that he is a successful white rapper, but rather that he has a black producer, who got very rich from his success. Maybe this is a better example of my original argument then: a “black” musical form becomes wildly successful, resulting in white artists and audiences investing in it, but unlike earlier cases (like Rock n Roll or Jazz) you have black producers and music executives and companies profiting from this growth.

    The UK does have a funny relationship with US American soul music that–I don’t think–can be broken down only along racial lines. Northern Soul, for example, only exists because piles of old, long forgotten and/or one-off US Soul records made their way to jukeboxes in northern England. They fell in love with that music and kept it alive well beyond its moment of popular success in the US. As a result artists like Ann Sexton, Barbara Acklin, Marlena Shaw, Esther Phillips (and many others) are probably more famous and influential there than here. Another example of music traveling beyond its original cultural context that I don’t think can be explained entirely through cultural appropriation is the Latino fan culture around Morrissesy and the Smiths in Mexico, South and Central America. This is what I meant by “global currency.”

    @Westerly
    You are quite right about the complexities of claiming authority through authenticity in the context of another culture. I’d forgotten completely about the (extremely lovely but–for me–a bit bland) Joss Stone. Duffy is another example of a blond singer who is compared to Winehouse and found wanting in terms of her “authentic” soul. (Candie Payne, who I like a lot, might also fit in that group of blond “retro” singers) But I am suggesting that judging artists this way is beside the point: if a song moves me and stirs MY soul it doesn’t matter much where the singer is originally from.

    @Westerly
    “Perhaps, in the end it doesn’t matter so much whether or not Amy is perceived/positioned as a “white girl” - what it really comes down to is whether she is an object of interest/concern/discipline for white people.”

    Exactly.

    I was never a fan of Whitney Houston’s music (I would rather hear Chaka Khan’s stomach rumble than hear Whitney sing anything) but there is no question that she was one of the biggest stars in the world when she began to fall apart. I had friends at the infamous Michael Jackson concert who told me the entire Garden gasped when she shambled onstage crack-thin and sweating like she was trying to keep a secret…But her breakdown was not glamorous to the mainstream media-she was portrayed a ghetto train wreck who’d pissed away her success. In contrast, Winehouse’s shocking similar downward spiral is already being spun into legend by the press. Compare the coverage of her drug partner/husband Blake Fielder-Civil to Bobby Brown and it becomes even more clear. Next to Bobby B. you’d think he was one of Sarah Palin’s kids.

    PS: now it is my turn to celebrate the name check of Teena Marie. Amazing.

  117. Ange wrote:

    @Joseph - Square Biz, indeed. Though based on what you’ve written Teena is sort of like Em in the sense she worked within the “community” to achieve her fame rather than being manufactured outside the community and then marketed towards it.

    Lawd, don’t get me started on music, please. I’m liable to toss around Tierra, Boz Skaggs and Robbie Nevil. The latter two I always thought were MEN OF COLOR until I actually saw pictures.

    I guess the whole reason I’m not interested in getting into the scraps about Amy is I feel offended both by her stunning success based on the kinds of behavior she’d demonstrated and her being constructed as first truly authentic white soul singer, just because she name checked Donny Hathaway.

    Poor Michael McDonald!

  118. L. wrote:

    @Ange:

    Not to get into the conversation you guys are having, but the mention of Michael McDonald brought me out of my quiet corner. I’ve always said, when Michael left the Doobie Brothers, he took the brother with him.

  119. duffyisawful wrote:

    can I also say this:

    if I hear another white woman trying to sing motown-style songs, I am going to flip out

    who is this duffy person, and when will she go away?

  120. Forex Pip wrote:

    But if you change what currency you’re comparing it against, it could be cultural appropriation for you. However, the most important factor for music is that they need to be accurate and profitable. They usually have cultural appropriation and respective race are smaller.

  121. Lupe wrote:

    This isn’t exactly about this post but close family. I dont see this addressed when I look on the internet but i’m wondering about appropriation between two minority ethnic groups. Specifically hair, a big thing is how white people appropriate dreadlocks, but does mean the same thing if its an asian, latino? On the one hand they are not necessarily of African descent, many latinos are mestizos(white and indigenous), but on the other hand they’re still not white and oppressed albiet sometimes differently then black people. I personally am mestiza but having grown up in the US puts an interesting kink in my cultural mix. I’ve grown up with just as many American blacks as latino family from overseas and so i’ve adapted with some of that culture. I have white hair though(in the sense that its not kinky) but am notwhite. Are dreads ok? I was at one time trying to do this and got mixed reactions. I personally cant figure this out because I’m not white, but I’m not African.(and white people the same standard that applies to you does not apply to everyone)

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