Lakeview Terrace : When the Definition of Racism is Racist
by Special Correspondent Thea Lim
Can you judge a movie by its trailer?
Opening this Friday, this is Lakeview Terrace’s premise according to the LA Times: “Jackson plays a law-and-order racist who doesn’t like the interracial couple next door.”
The racial relationships appear to be secondary to the film’s central, upper case question: What do you do when you can’t call the police??? (Gasp! Can you imagine such a topsy turvy universe? Oh, right.)
But I couldn’t help but chafe at the way the Lakeview Terrace trailer presents racism and interracial relationships. What kind of harassment do interracial couples face today? While a few years ago interracial relationships were met with hostility and violence – and still are – today there’s also the possibility that you’ll get a whole other type of gross response. Like maybe a high five (Way to bag a Asian/Latina/Black chick!) or cooing (Do you think you’ll have little chocolate babies?).
This is the mind-blowing contortion of contemporary racism: racism no longer simply outlaws interracial relationships, it also encourages them.
This is because racism these days often takes an inclusive form. Living in an urban, liberal city, the kind of racism I see most often takes the form of cultural appropriation: going to a restaurant and seeing our cultural foods co-opted into some sort of mayonnaise hybrid; hearing non-Black hipsters calling each other N***** to show how “down” they are; attending a yoga class and seeing statues of sacred deities being used as coat racks; and of course, the exoticisation of women of colour, and the asexualisation (sorry, making up words) of many men of colour. See Esther Ku – or Samurai Girl! – if you want proof.
As a culture we seem to define racism solely as an act that involves burning crosses or violence. Sometimes it seems like mainstream North American culture will only agree it’s racism when physical suffering is involved – and even then it can be a tough sell. But I see that there are two kinds of racism: hostile racism, and benevolent racism. The first kind involves burning crosses, the second kind involves people wanting to befriend you because they think you can teach them kung fu. If we privilege one kind of racism over an other, we are less equipped to spot, call out, name, validate our experience of, and stamp out the other kind.
But the way Lakeview Terrace highlights hostile racism isn’t it’s only problem. At least from the trailer, the movie seems allergic to the idea that benevolent racism exists.
From that LA Times article:
Turner [played by Samuel L. Jackson], a single father of two, also can’t stand that the skin color of his neighbors isn’t the same. “You can listen to that noise all night long,” Turner at one point says to Chris as he listens to rap music, “but when you wake up in the morning, you’ll still be white.”
In my world, it’s not so unusual for people to have genuine beef with white folks who listen to rap music – when it’s perceived that they’re doing so just so that they can seem like they have “cred.” I don’t think POCs or anti-racist folks should hate on any white person who likes rap. However, there’s a justifiable context to that unjustifiable bias: white folks have been hijacking elements of black culture for their own use since white and black folks began to co-exist in America. But this statement, which in another setting could be form some sort of anti-racist protest, is a threat in the movie, is irrational – as in how dare those uppity black people say we can’t listen to their music – rather than a real issue that anti-racist people tussle with.
[The article also mentions that Turner hates hybrid cars, because that's right, the only people in America who are racist are crazed right-wingers who have an irrational hatred of espresso-based coffee and pilates. Just so you have a nice little dose of liberal dogmatism to go with your racism.]
Going by the trailer of Lakeview Terrace, this is the movie’s logic: Turner has a problem with the mashing of cultures. Turner is also an unreasonable, illogical bully. Does Lakeview Terrace equate discomfort with culture mashing, based on history and racial context – in other words, someone objecting to benevolent racism – with a bigot who is off their rocker?
And what do you think about the fact that the character who has a problem with someone’s race, is not white? In my view it plunges this movie even further into that postracial nonsense; where often benevolent racism is ok because we’re postracial, ergo anyone has the right to anyone else’s cultural goods; and where affirmative action has created an explosion of “reverse racism”: Wow, American society is so advanced that not only can black people be homeowners and cops, they can even be racist!!!
It’s not ok to harass your neighbours. It’s not ok to hate on random interracial couples. But the idea that racism comes in many forms, and so some anti-racist people may have trouble with interracial relationships, and some may struggle when they see cultural goods being consumed by people from outside the ethnic group, doesn’t fly in Lakeview Terrace.
We who may struggle with representations of interracial relationships do so not because we’re full of prejudice and hatred, like Abel Turner, but because we’re for racial equity – and it’s hard to see celluloid POCs dating white folks rather than us all loving each other. But the Lakeview Terrace trailer (and possibly the whole movie) presents a person who is wary of interracial relationships as a hysterical racist.
You want to know the most obscene thing about that Lakeview Terrace trailer? Lakeview Terrace is the name of the neighbourhood where Rodney King was attacked. What kind of sick parallel are they trying to draw here – that when a black cop harasses his white neighbour and black spouse, it’s the same thing as four white police officers beating an unarmed black man half to death?
Or will we find out in the last act of the movie that Turner is Rodney King’s cousin, and that’s why he doesn’t like white people? And even if that does happen, will that really redeem the rest of the movie?
I’m not so sure I’m gonna tune in to find out.
* The only other time I can remember seeing a Hollywood character object to a mixed race pairing was when the sister from Save the Last Dance freaked out on Julia Stiles’ character for dating her (black) brother. Can anyone remember a Hollywood character who objected to an interracial relationship? Were they an unreasonable person of colour?
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Adnan wrote:
It’s probably just me, but Samuel L Jackson gets roped into films where racial politics are “Wait, what?” to the viewer. Black Snake Moan, the Shaft remake (itself based upon a character that, prior to the success of Sweetback’s Sweet Song… was written as a white character. Cynical move, much?), and my personal favourite, Rules of Engagement – complete one of the most ridiculous “twists” endings – not to mention one of the most cynically racist -out there.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 7:37 am ¶
Kat wrote:
One of the few women of color featured on Sex and the City was a black woman who (shrilly and stereotypically) objected to her brother dating one of the characters. She was also the only character to object to the relationship. No other potential problems for an interracial couple were covered in any sort of depth.
All the trailers I have seen for this movie have not mentioned the racial themes in the movie. They’ve portrayed it as a thriller about a cop gone bad, basically. I did think it was kind of funny that the one pressuring someone to get out of the neighborhood was black since the trailer did NOT explain his motivations at all. I feel like a lot of people are going to see this expecting something different.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 7:39 am ¶
White Trash Academic wrote:
Thanks for the info about the movie. Like Kat, I also was under the impression that it was a “bad cop” move and that alone was too ridiculous for me. Now, I know I will not see the movie.
One of my students this semester is doing his research project on perceptions of African-American in contemporary film and how that has changed over time. I will tell him to add this one to the list.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 7:59 am ¶
Penni Brown wrote:
Funny – that sister in Save the Last Dance was Kerry Washington. I guess now she gets to play the other side of the coin.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:00 am ¶
sejw wrote:
There’s also Mississippi Masala (African American and Indian-Ugandan). Both sides of the family objected to Denzel Washington’s and Sarita Choudhury’s characters having a relationship.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:08 am ¶
elise wrote:
Kat beat me to the S&tC episode. That’s the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The writers could have gone somewhere good with it, addressing an issue, but they dropped the ball and played it for laughs instead.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:08 am ¶
Myles wrote:
Wasn’t there one with an Asian man and a White Woman and her mother says something like;
“Yellow babies! How can you think to have Yellow babies!”
It was on VH1’s interracial dating thing-ie
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:22 am ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
Can anyone remember a Hollywood character who objected to an interracial relationship? Were they an unreasonable person of colour?
If I’m reading your query correctly, I’d point to Jungle Fever, Guess Who (with Bernie Mac objecting), Soul Man, Bend It Like Beckham.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:29 am ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
If we’re going to talk Sex & the City, then I assume we’re including TV shows:
Interracial dating was considered objectionable on:
- The Fresh Prince of Bel Air (Will’s aunt, specifically his mother’s sister)
- Friday Night Lights
- The Sopranos (I think…didn’t Meadow date a black or bi-racial guy?)
I may be able to recall some others as the day progresses.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:32 am ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
I also forgot Waiting to Exhale.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:33 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
Re “Can anyone remember a Hollywood character who objected to an interracial relationship?” Wouldn’t it be easier to name movies where the characters DON’T object to an interracial relationship?
“Something New” and “Down to You” come to mind as movies where the characters DO object to an interracial relationship. For more possibilities, see “Interracial Relationships in Movies” (http://www.amazon.com/Interracial-Relationships-in-Movies/lm/1KCQJJFYB3S8G).
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:42 am ¶
Slush wrote:
Of course I haven’t seen the movie, and surely won’t, but it seemed to me the main message from that trailer was, “see, black people are racist too.”
Especially when it’s set in Lakeview Terrace, making the message even more like, “See, black people are racist too, Rodney King wasn’t so much an example of white racism as it was an example of all people’s racism. Racism is actually a problem of people in Lakeview Terrace, not the rest of us.”
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:43 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
Myles: Would that have been Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story?
What about Lane Kim’s mom in Gilmore Girls? She only wanted Lane to date a Korean (-American) boy who has aspirations to be a doctor (very, very stereotypical!!)
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:44 am ¶
queerhapa wrote:
Denzel’s character (poor Denzel!) also got heat from Black women in “Jungle Fever” for dating a white woman, Annabelle Sciorra.
There was also “Zebrahead” which featured a white Jewish male/Black female pairing.
But wait a sec, now that I think of the question you pose at the end of your post, Thea, I can’t think of many depictions of interracial relationships in films (especially ones where that’s the main story line) that *don’t* feature objections to the relationship. Isn’t that the typical way Hollywood deals with interracial relationships, or am I missing something in your question?
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:47 am ¶
queerhapa wrote:
Rob beat me to it. Damn my slow internet connection!
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:47 am ¶
GA wrote:
from my personal experience, i’ve heard a lot of white people point out that people of color can be racist too. which is true, but when the people i’ve heard say that, it’s as some sort of a justification. they can feel better about any reservations they may have about interracial relationships if they think other races have those same reservations.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:48 am ¶
MrUniteUs wrote:
Another dirty Black cop movie. First Denzel Washington in Training day. Now this.
The negative portrayal of Black men in the media continues. A few weeks ago we saw Don Cheadles face on movie posters with word Traitor underneath. A muslim that.
You may have heard that Republic Jewish Comittee called thousands of Jews falsely accusing Barack Obama being linked to terrorist groups.
Spike Lee has a movie coming out. All we get from the trailer is that a Black man killed a man.
Couple this with the 99% negative coverge
of Black men in the news, the corporate mass promotion of gangsta rap, and you understand reasons why the disease of racism persist.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:13 am ¶
Thea Lim wrote:
@queerhapa
My question wasn’t so much “do we always see objections to interracial relationships” but “Do we always see objections to interracial relationships from
1) characters of colour
2) characters of colour who are unreasonable?”
In that sense, how does Hollywood characterise protests to IRs from people of colour? Can Hollywood grasp that sometimes protests to interracial relationships can come from a valid place? (For an elucidation of why a protest to an IR might be valid, see Racialicious’
interracial dating series…)
I also feel like Hollywood tends to portray IRs as this noble thing, that everyone who gets into an IR is a trailblazer for love. It’s interesting to contrast that depiction with anyone you know who has Yellow Fever – or some other race fetish. Not that I think that IRs are always either one or the other (ie trailblazer or pervert), rather, it’s complicated, right?
@ All
Thanks for the rundown! I haven’t seen Jungle Fever (Bad anti-racist cultural critic! Bad!) but I’d be totally curious to see what a (arguably?) anti-racist director has to say about the whole IR thing.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:19 am ¶
Robin wrote:
In the 1993 Bruce Lee bio-pic “Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story,” the character of Brenda Lee’s mother objects to her white daughter marrying an Asian man. She says something to the effect of what Myles quoted above: “Do you really want to have yellow babies?” I remember that line made me cringe when I heard it.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:27 am ¶
dave wrote:
It seems like POC/white interracial relationships in media are typically put in to be a focus of a point, kind of like how common it is for there to be only one gay character in a movie, and the gay character is there to fulfill a very particular gay/straight moment (the consolation scene, or the tough cop scene). The POC/white (less often the POC/POC a la Mississippi Masala example) couple is there to demonstrate the “culture clash.”
The intentions of the “objecting characters” seem to vary a bit by whether the objector is POC or white, but if we’re looking at it as negative vs. positive racism, I bet it would show that usually the white objector is prominent in movies thick with negative racism (like the “you don’t want yellow babies” line someone references), and the POC objector in movies displaying benevolent racism (i.e. save the last dance, where “blacks are great because they dance so fly can you teach me”). Actually I’d love to see a chart to see whether that’s true.
I’m trying to think of movies where it doesn’t get into that. Where the interracial relationship just exists. Shadowboxer is one I think (but parts of shadowboxer are CRAZY if you get into it). Domino might be another (not that domino doesn’t have a lot of problematic parts to it.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:29 am ¶
RoslynHolcomb wrote:
Spike Lee may or may not be anti-racist, but he’s definitely anti-interracial relationships. I parted ways with him after Jungle Fever. It’s clear that he has issues with the fact that his father dated interracially after his mother died.
I find SLJ’s role in this movie curious, especially in light of the fact that he sent his daughter to an HBCU specifically because she was dating white guys in LA.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:36 am ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
RE: Post #14
Denzel’s character (poor Denzel!) also got heat from Black women in “Jungle Fever” for dating a white woman, Annabelle Sciorra.
That was Wesley Snipes. Unless I’m forgetting some brief cameo, Denzel wasn’t in Jungle Fever.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:37 am ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
RE: Post #18
I haven’t seen Jungle Fever (Bad anti-racist cultural critic! Bad!)
!!!!!!!!!! Really?? !!!!!!!! OK, I’m going to assume that you’re relatively young and haven’t seen it because the movie was released when you were unable to watch R-rated films. (I have thus showed that I am over 30, even if just barely.)
Rent it tonight. That movie (to me) is all kinds of wonderful:
- Queen Latifah playing the (very brief) role of someone who is against the interracial relationship
- The various responses of his (Wesley’s) black friends (and religious family) and her (Annabella’s) white friends (and prejudiced family) to the relationship
- The examination of the color complex in the black community (light-skin vs. black skin)
- The difference (if any) of black male dating white female VS. black female dating white male
- Halle Berry and Samuel Jackson as a crackhead couple
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:43 am ¶
oterhog wrote:
Reading this post reminds me of bell hooks’ book Outlaw Culture.
She wrote a wonderful essay about the two films The Crying Game and the Body Guard. Her conclusion is that Hollywood portrays interracial relationships as tragic and that they will never work. I wonder if Lakeview Terrace will be yet another Hollywood example of how “doomed” interracial relationships are.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:48 am ¶
Keith wrote:
@queerhapa
Actually, Denzel wasn’t in “Jungle Fever.” That was Wesley Snipes.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:49 am ¶
Thea Lim wrote:
@ Penni Brown
Wow, I didn’t put two and two together. Gah, the roles for people of colour can be so dismal.
@ Jus Plain Old Me
Haha, thanks for the recommendation. Haven’t seen Jungle Fever partly because I was underaged when it came out, but partly because I didn’t grow up in North America, and believe it or not, Spike Lee is not one of America’s biggest cultural exports – Michael Jordan and NKOTB kinda overshadowed him…But it’s true, I have to put an end to this madness already!
One thing that’s interesting about growing up outside of North America is how much you miss out on people of colour’s history – esp because the main media voice that transports American news outside of America is CNN.
Like I have vague recollections of the OJ Simpson trial, but not really. And I had to look up the details of the Rodney King incident on Wikipedia because I wasn’t totally clear on what happened. Coming here as an adult, there’s so much to catch up on, because the way things are reported outside of America is so different from the way they are experienced.
But this is a derail and really a whole other post…
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 10:09 am ¶
tj wrote:
I remember when I saw the trailer for this film I thought . . . “Oh no, ANOTHER film where a black person objects to interracial dating and acts irrational while doing so”.
I am not sure I am going to watch this film, I fear I’ll find myself rolling my eyes for the entire 110 minutes.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 10:12 am ¶
Jess wrote:
Hm. You’re talking about IR relations in the media. i wonder if we could think about how it has changed over the years.
Now, I am the product of one such. And further, I exist because my grandparents broke the law to get married. On top of that, it wasn’t as far as I know a yellow fever fetish thing. Grandpa and Grandma got together because of shared politics (they were both committed socialists in Colorado in the 30s, organizing people to fight in Spain. What does that tell you?) I would love to see something like that in a movie. i haven’t so far.
That said, the benevolent racism I find in some ways easier to handle. First, I noticed it tends to pass. That is, it seems more prevalent among young seeking-to-be-hip people. When you get past that it tails off, at least among people I know.
The other issue is appropriation. Cultures appropriate from each other all the time. I can’t get hung up on pseudo-japanese or pseudo-jewish food in restaurants, even if it isn’t done “right.” Nobody’s culture is “pure” — that’s a kind of fascist canard I see all the time, like when racist white people talk about some mythic European culture.
I mean, the whole reason hip-hop is culturally as relevant as it is is because loads of suburban white kids picked it up. African-Americans are 10-15% of the whole population. Anything that stayed “in house” would be a niche market by definition. If it wasn’t for the millions of dollars those white kids spent on hip-hop, rappers wouldn’t be wearing the bling.
This isn’t to say that hip-hop would be irrelevant otherwise, but go back in time and look at how many records Gil-Scott Heron sold and look at how many Jay-Z sold. GSH had a very narrow (if passionate) fan base. Most people don’t remember the guy. If he had sold 10 million records the landscape would probably be a bit different, is all.
The real question isn’t appropriation, I think, but why Elvis was considered acceptable to record companies while James Brown was less so. I don’t think the answer is as simple as it’s often made out to be.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 10:34 am ¶
shirs wrote:
This is my first comment and I have nothing particularly constructive to add, except for a movie which does fit the question: the rather classist “Something New” with Sanaa Lathan and Simon Baker. She reluctantly (she is an accoutant in a large firm and he is a gardner) enters into a relationship with him. Her mother, brother, and three girlfriends all object to the relationship. There is a lot to critique about this film (HE prefers her hair natural, HE does not want to talk about race)…
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 10:34 am ¶
GeeLennox wrote:
“I’m trying to think of movies where it doesn’t get into that. Where the interracial relationship just exists. ”
You should check out “Strange Days” starring Angela Basset and Ralph Fiennes. It’s a cyber-punk movie.
Race plays a big part of the plot. But not with the interracial couple/friendship.
Does that make sense?
It’s hard to explain without giving to much away.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 11:03 am ¶
drispe wrote:
RoslynHolcomb wrote:
Spike Lee may or may not be anti-racist, but he’s definitely anti-interracial relationships. I parted ways with him after Jungle Fever. It’s clear that he has issues with the fact that his father dated interracially after his mother died.
“Clear” to who? Perhaps he just chose to showcase complications for these relationships, as a negotiation of race relations. Jungle Fever was about an affair tearing a marriage apart. That’s not going to be a warm and fuzzy tale, no matter which ethnicities are involved. But how in the world can we forget the reality of prejudice in the early 1990s? Do his “issues” extend to Rosario Dawson and Edward Norton in 25th Hour, or Dawson and her Black boyfriend in He Got Game? This man has given us portraits of racial complexities in New York for years, when Scorcese and Woody Allen couldn’t be bothered to.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 11:06 am ¶
dave wrote:
@GeeLennox: Thanks I’ll check it out. I get nerdy for cyberpunk so am def interested in that too.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 11:26 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Ooo! Ooo! I got one: Akira’s Hip Hop Shop. Akira (James Kyson Lee), a Japanese im/migrant, has a IR with Daphne (Emayatzy Corinealdi), an African American woman. Both his father and ex-GF strenuously oppose the relationship (Pops goes as far as to say he’s not having any “Tiger Woods” grandbabies and financially cut off Akira). Both Akira’s and Daphne’s pals offer their objections in terms of rolling out stereotypes of Black women and Japanese men, which Daphne and Akira counter.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 11:50 am ¶
Juan wrote:
“My question wasn’t so much “do we always see objections to interracial relationships” but “Do we always see objections to interracial relationships from
1) characters of colour
2) characters of colour who are unreasonable?””
1) Yes 2)Yes
“Can Hollywood grasp that sometimes protests to interracial relationships can come from a valid place? (For an elucidation of why a protest to an IR might be valid, see Racialicious’
interracial dating series…)”
Not likely, I highly highly doubt it. If it’s from a white character, they may and try to make it seem valid. But often I seem to see PoC characters being the one objecting nowadays while many of the white characters are merely ‘progressive.’
I also feel like Hollywood tends to portray IRs as this noble thing, that everyone who gets into an IR is a trailblazer for love. It’s interesting to contrast that depiction with anyone you know who has Yellow Fever – or some other race fetish. Not that I think that IRs are always either one or the other (ie trailblazer or pervert), rather, it’s complicated, right? “
Sometimes complicated. But after living around and with so many white guys, gay and straight, for years and them being open to me… I can’t help but always question them.
And now that I think about it, Mississippi Masala and some Jackie Chan movie–still trying to remember which one–seem to be the only thing I can recall where an there was a PoC/PoC interracial couple instead of the usual dime-a-dozen PoC/white interracial couple portrayal. And I can’t think of one that wasn’t a straight couple either.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:01 pm ¶
Niki wrote:
“Jungle Fever” is definitely a classic, but I remember when the movie was released, it was marketed as this exploration of interracial relationships, but it is basically a movie about a guy who cheats on his wife–made all the worse that it was with a “white girl”. I think movies on this topic would be more innovative if they were like the story of Jess’(who posted above) grandparents or movies that just let the couple exist without the typical “scandal” surrounding it. Not to say ignore race, but presenting it in a way that shows day-to-day life in an interracial relationship isn’t always full of “teachable moments”. At the end of the day someboy’s gotta take the kids to school and take out the trash, etc. like every other relationship.
I think I will pass on this movie, even though I do like Kerry Washington & Sam Jackson.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:07 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
This won’t even make it into the Netflix cue.
I’m going to have to agree w/ UniteUs…enough w/ the corrupt black cop already.
I knew Lakeview Terrace sounded familiar. Fuck whoever did that.
Jus~the Gator shuffle is priceless
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:13 pm ¶
Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:
RE: Post #36
“The Gator Shuffle is priceless.”
I prefer the Gator theme song:
I’ll do it, I’ll do it / You know I’ll do it
I’m a c-c-c-c-c-c-c-crackhead
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:36 pm ¶
B wrote:
@Thea Lim
First, thanks for the post.
Second, I’d say that I can’t think of a single Hollywood depiction of an interracial couple in which a bunch of people–including p.o.c. reasonable and otherwise–objected. Even the classic 1967 “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner,” with Sidney Poitier, made the point of having the black maid bluntly express her disgust at Poitier’s pairing with a white woman, while the liberal white parents (Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn) could only sputter out the possible difficulties they would face.
I think it is also difficult to determine what types of protests to IRs depicted in Hollywood films are reasonable and what ones are unreasonable. For example, in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner,” Tracy and Hepburn’s main concern is that a number of people will treat the couple horribly; they realize that they raised their daughter in such a way that she’d consider marrying outside her race, and that Poiter’s character is quite a catch (not only a gorgeous, charming doctor, but an internationally-acclaimed doctor and lovely company to boot). Poitier’s character’s parents have the same protest–that others will make things difficult. Are these protests reasonable or unreasonable? Perhaps the maid’s blunt protests stem from wondering why Poiter’s character wouldn’t want to marry one of her daughters or nieces–is this reasonable or not?
The only English-speaking (I’m in the US and am, unfortunately, dreadful with languages) screen depictions of IR couples in which the fact that they are IR is *not* the main conflict/point/thrust of the plot are those from Canada like Degrassi the Next Generation (even though I’m too old to be watching teen dramas).
My main beefs with this movie stem from two things: 1)how f-ed up it is to have yet another negative depiction of a black man in power–*especially* in this election year; and 2) the fact that such a scenario is perhaps the least likely unsavory situation such a couple would face. My pairing is similar to the one in the movie (except we’re less pretty, waaay less wealthy, and are East Coasters), and Hubby and I agreed the film would be more realistic if it was titled “Howard Beach” (of attacking/killing any black folk who get lost there fame), and the cop was white. Really, black cops are probably at the bottom of our list of people who give us crap.
Anyway, thanks for the great post and ensuing discussion!
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
B wrote:
OOh, is “Akira’s Hip Hop Shop” on DVD yet? I’ve wanted to check out.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:47 pm ¶
Ike wrote:
Even though the two Harold and Kumar films deal with race a lot, there are never any racial objections to the interracial relationships that both characters have. And Harold’s relationship is POC/POC.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 12:54 pm ¶
browne wrote:
The problem I think with Hollywood is that it is no longer an art, at least not bit Hollywood, it is a marketing device. Why would it benefit America to admit that much of their exploitation is built around racism? It wouldn’t. That’s why in general you are going to see racism overwhelmingly discussed in this reverse racism paradigm.
Just an FYI this was produced by Will Smith, so even people of color in the game of Hollywood who want to be commercially successful accept this paradigm.
But it is not all bad you can take this kind of crap (not in entertainment factor, but in social commentary) and use the oodles of money you make and give to real art.
Yeah though this seems to be the new stereotype. When black men get power they get scary and psycho…
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 1:06 pm ¶
queerhapa wrote:
Whoops, my bad about Denzel being in Jungle Fever. Sorry! (Mental note to double-check IMDB before making comments about movies I haven’t seen in over 15 years…)
And Thea, thanks for the clarification on your question. I do still think that when Hollywood depicts IRs, the objections tend to come from both sides, including from POCs.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 1:23 pm ¶
queerhapa wrote:
Oh how could we have forgotten Hanif Kureishi’s “My Beautiful Laundrette”? South Asian man dating White skinhead man (Daniel Day Lewis!) in England. Although the sexual nature of their relationship was a secret, the fact that they were friends at all was cause for objection by family and friends.
Now I’m trying to think of other movies featuring queer IRs where race is an issue… “The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love” comes to mind.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 1:29 pm ¶
khia213 wrote:
Re: Jungle Fever
The objection to the relationship between Snipes and Sciorra wasn’t that it was interracial. It was because a) it was a sort of fetish indulging relationship. They were fascinated by each other’s skin but not each other and b) that it was an affair. However, if you paid attention, at the end of the movie, it was more hopeful about a relationship between John Tuturro’s character and Tyrell Farrell, a black woman, with whom he had common interests.
The movie wasn’t down on all interracial relationships. Just the ones based solely on lust and curiousity.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 1:42 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
@ B–AHHS is on DVD.
http://www.popcultureshock.com/akira/buy.php
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 2:11 pm ¶
miss girl wrote:
when i saw previews for this film, i have to admit that i wanted to go see it, purely because i have such hatred of my current apt. neighbors right now. the whole interracial component is giving me second thoughts now, but who knows? the film may be more complicated then ‘bad black guy vs. good white guy’.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 2:23 pm ¶
Lisa J wrote:
Is it just me, or isn’t Hollywood’s (and the mass media in general’s) depiction of black/white interracial relationships and people’s outrage about them ass-backwards. Until the media (and movies) began freaking out about some (def not all) black women being upset about black men dating white women, wasn’t it usually the black family that was more likely to be accepting of such unions? From a historical perspective, it was blacks who had to raise the white black bi-racial children during slavery times (usually the result of male-slaveowner female slave rapes), and I personally know situations where when it was somewhat legal and not likely to result in death for a black man to be with a white woman, the black grandparents who wound up raising the child because it was too “difficult” in those days for the white woman to raise the black child. I’ve read several books that are memoirs and auto-biographies of such liaisons. I even have family members who have taken in such children. I think black families generally and blacks in general have always been more accepting of such unions, but now that things have “changed” and not as many whites have as stringent objections to interracial relationships, it is now the black people who are “the bad guys” who are so against interracial unions. Back-asswards. Yes some blacks dislike, get angry whatever about b/w interracial relationshiops but that isn’t the majority reaction and the way the media spins this one is really unfair. Oh and
B, I co-sign on Degrassi the Next Generation and its depiction of interracial relationships, ‘though in the original DeGrassi (which I watched as a teen when it came out) did have an interracial relationship that had lots of people reacting negatively (and it wasn’t the black folks). Go Canada teen programming! I guess you can tell that the fact that I watched the first show when it came out, shows that I too am too old to be watching the new show, but I love it; it is my guilty pleasure (plus since I live alone, no one else knows but me
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 2:31 pm ¶
Ron wrote:
Lakeview Terrace is a place of significance for AA in Los Angeles just as Pacoima and the rest of the Eastern part of the SF valley.
Lakeview Terrace is known as a place where AA could live in the SF valley whereas the more affluent areas that asborbed white flight was off limits.
Historically, interracial couples and upwardly mobile blacks see it as safe haven from the City.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 3:17 pm ¶
Thea Lim wrote:
@ Jess
I think I hesitate to say that benevolent racism is worse than hostile racism or rank them. I once asked my friend which she thought was worse, and she said that it was like being asked if you’d rather die by drowning or strangling. Um, neither please.
@ Roslyn Holcomb
I haven’t seen Jungle Fever but I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with a movie that portrayed an IR as a difficult thing. I would have a problem if the movie was saying all IRs are doomed (maybe not the case in Jungle Fever according to khia213).
However I do feel (as I said above) that sometimes IRs are painted as these noble trailblazing things. But they are a lot more complicated than that, they can be difficult, and they can sometimes involve racism or racial misunderstandings. I dated the most anti-racist white person I have ever known for several years, and even we still had rough patches that had to do with our different racial backgrounds.
What I’m looking for I guess is a more nuanced portrayal of an IR, where if people have objections, it’s shown that there are valid reasons why people may have objections. Or that IRs aren’t some huge, romantic thing – that there are messy complications that stem from dating outside of your ethnic group, for you and for your kids if you have any (incidentally like Jess I’m the product of an IR).
@ Ike
Sometimes I feel am a bad POC because I didn’t like Harold and Kumar (I only saw #1). One IR-related scene that really bothered me from #1: Kumar tells his Jewish neighbour where he can find some hot Asian chicks. I was pretty horrified by image of a MOC pandering to a someone’s Asian fetish. And at the end of the movie you see the same neighbour with Cindy Kim, and it’s painted as this happy ending for them – even though we know they’re together because the neighbour has some f-ed up fetish.
Pretty good example of benevolent racism.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 3:22 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
@TCS: THANK YOU for the DVD link. I’ve been wanting to see this movie for soooooo long!
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 3:52 pm ¶
Felicity wrote:
Another thing that bothers me about that trailer is how centered on the white husband the story seems to be. It really comes across as entirely about him and the cop — despite the cop’s problem being about the marriage, the wife is sort of sidelined.
Apart from some screamy indication that she thinks the husband is being too stubborn or putting himself/them in danger, we don’t hear her opinion on whether they should move. I don’t recall seeing any scene in that trailer where she was present and her husband wasn’t. Wouldn’t the cop want to confront her if he thinks she’s a race traitor or whatever? Instead he is confronting the white husband over and over, as if the relationship ‘transgression’ is a white man ’stealing’ a WoC, rather than a WoC with agency marrying a white man.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 3:58 pm ¶
B wrote:
@TCS, thanks for the link!
@ Lisa J., glad to hear I’m not the only grown person who watches Degrassi!
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 4:11 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Felicity –
Your point just made something click for me. I’ve seen the director of the film’s work before – the director is Neil LaBute, and he is a playwright.
I saw This is How it Goes which was supposed to change how we look at race relations but was really recycled stereotyping. (Though, I will give him some credit – the narrator was nuanced enough to be compelling.) In that play, the woman character, Belinda, (there were three actors: black man, white man, white woman) didn’t seem to have much personal agency. She has a little monologue, but is completely subject to the whims of each man as they go their their own little battle with each other. She also doesn’t seem to have any agency.
I’ve always thought of the play as being about race, but from a very white perspective – that even while trying to transcend the normal racial dialogue, LaBute is hamstrung because his understanding is fairly limited.
However, it is also from a very male perspective – throughout the play, Belinda is the prize, and even she admits she doesn’t know what she wants after HS ended. She was with the black guy because she wanted to feel special. And then she was just stuck, until narrator guy shows up for the rescue. We even get the impression that narrator doesn’t like Belinda all that much after talking to her for a while, he just seemed to be reclaiming something he couldn’t have in HS.
Interesting…
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 4:11 pm ¶
G.K. wrote:
@Jess
A lot of folks over 40 are familiar with Gil-Scott Heron—in fact, he’s unofficially considered the “Godfather of Rap” due to his early ’70’s spoken-word classics like “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” and “Whitey on The Moon”. Sure, he was never a huge big name artist, but I think that’s because he didn’t want to be, and also because the subject matter he chose to sing about pretty much kept him off most radio playlists. He’s currently recovering from a longtime drug addiction and living with AIDS, but plans to tour again. Also, when he made his records, rap as we know it now was not the major commodity it would become in the 1980’s, so you can’t even compare him and Jay-Z in terms of sales. Plus Jay-Z actually put out his first record around 1990, but his career really didn’t take off until 1997-98. And rappers were wearing ,creating, and sporting gold chains and other accessories long before the word “bling” was even created—they sure as heck weren’t waiting around for white kids to get hip to anything they were doing.
Elvis was acceptable to record companies only because he was a white boy playing and singing black music, plain and simple—that was just pure,good-old fashioned racism in his case. IMHO, he was a good singer, but he’s way too overrated (hell, Roy Orbison was just as good a singer as Elvis, he just wasn’t considered as hot, that’s all). There were just as many black singers that he ripped off who could sing just as well, if not better, than he could.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 5:30 pm ¶
blanky wrote:
Won’t judge until I see the movie–there’s a bit more to it than that, or Sammy J. wouldn’t ‘ve signed on.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 5:46 pm ¶
Sharon wrote:
I believe Lakeview Terrace is loosely based on an actual case of a black cop harassing two interracial couples (BW/WM) in his neighborhood.
http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/cms/story/detail/?id=4220&IssueNum=55
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 6:08 pm ¶
Vik wrote:
I had a free ticket for this movie for last night. I really thought it was going to be an “I’m a bad ass and you know it because I’m Samuel L. Jackson” film. Should have seen it free, now I’ll never know! Anyone ever seen “Fakin’ da Funk?
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 6:13 pm ¶
not there yet wrote:
blanky: “there’s a bit more to it than that, or Sammy J. wouldn’t ‘ve signed on.”
um…
Snakes on a Plane??
I’m skeptical.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 7:58 pm ¶
Jaye wrote:
I think LT would have been more interesting as the movie I thought it was…a film about a bad cop who just happened to be black, terrorizing in IR couple, who just happened to be IR. I remember when I saw the trailer I thought that it was interesting that BW/WM couples were becoming so mainstream that it wasn’t made a big deal out of…now I learn that the relationship being made a big deal out of is the entire premise of the movie. Too bad.
A good movie I saw awhile back about IR relationships is Brooklyn/Babylon, and it stars Black Thought from The Roots. It’s about an African-American man and a Caucasian-Jewish woman, and I loved the film. I think we’re used to seeing black-white relationships as being about fetishes, insecurities and done exploitatively, and this movie just dealt with the subject in a really intuitive, brilliant way.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 8:00 pm ¶
Kendra wrote:
Neo-Ned might be one such movie. I haven’t seen it yet, so if someone else has please speak up.
Gabrielle Union and one handsome white male actor star in the movie as mental patients in an asylum. The white male character is a Neo-Nazi, from what I’ve seen. I really want to see this movie sometime soon.
I think that Gabrielle Union’s character is supposed to believe that she is Satan or Death.
Restaurant might also be a movie with this sort of contention. I never finished it so I don’t know if anyone really opposed the BW/WM coupling from the POC side. That is another movie, plus Akira’s Hip-Hop Shop, that I really want to see and finish.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 9:37 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:
Re: appropriation
Sometimes, imitation is a form of flattery.
What’s so awful about a white chef doing “fusion” cuisine? Or a Chinese-ethnicity chef doing French cuisine? It’s just food, well or badly cooked.
I can appreciate Bizet’s Carmen (a classic appropriation of musical style) as well as Paco Pena’s modern flamenco.
I don’t think that religious symbols should be disrespected, but I do think that it is OK to display, on aesthetic grounds, religious art not belonging to your own tradition. The client using Siva statue as a coat-rack is the one with a problem, not the yoga studio owner who intends to display an artifact of Indian culture in recognition that yoga is also of Indian origin.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 10:21 pm ¶
blanky wrote:
Snakes on a plane?
It’s a campfest, internet sensation and really really silly. He was having some fun.
I don’t think that’s what this is going for.
Posted 17 Sep 2008 at 11:46 pm ¶
michael wrote:
Samuel Jackson has been phoning it in for years. “Snakes on a plane” was just the tip of an iceberg.
“Lakeview Terrace” looks to be continuing the trend, although I might see this just because Patrick Wilson is in it. The dude is HOT.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 1:22 am ¶
lxy wrote:
“Sometimes I feel am a bad POC because I didn’t like Harold and Kumar (I only saw #1). One IR-related scene that really bothered me from #1: Kumar tells his Jewish neighbour where he can find some hot Asian chicks. I was pretty horrified by image of a MOC pandering to a someone’s Asian fetish. And at the end of the movie you see the same neighbour with Cindy Kim, and it’s painted as this happy ending for them – even though we know they’re together because the neighbour has some f-ed up fetish.
Pretty good example of benevolent racism.”
Harold and Kumar is thought of as an “Asian American” film, but it’s just another mindless Hollywood flick.
It may have slightly broken the mold by having 2 Asian American leads as stars, but the powers behind the film were White Jewish guys–like many Hollywood films.
Much of the movie adopted that “benevolent” hipster attitude towards racist/sexist stereotypes that has become the newest trendy incarnation of White racism in the USA.
So it’s not surprising that it had that crude ending.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 1:24 am ¶
Mzchelz wrote:
ok since we are getting into a debate on interracial relationships based on jungle fever A) it was wesley snipes character who was the main character and spike lee presented 2 stories of interracial dating the first was wesley snipes and annabella . Their relationship did not work because it was based on curiosity about the different races. It was not based on love or respect or friendship. The second relationship was her ex boyfriend paulie and the teacher who came into his diner everyday. They spoke about school and interests and at the end of the movie you feel as if their relationship has a chance because of it’s genuine nature. So lets really be honest here. I would prefer if my children dated within their race. Yes I do have some racist issues. Because I study my history and my present. Because Obama is a nominee does not mean that this country is any less racist. When you don’t get a job or into a program that you are qualified for and u t hink that it is because u are an african american , can ur white partner really understand that. Are you ready for the insults , stares, and ugly looks from society. And what abt ur kids do u raise them as white or black do u celebrate kwanzaa and jewish holidays . How do u figure that out. In jungle fever annabella’s character asks what abt babies and wesley snipes ” no no no octaroon,quadroon, mulatto babies for me they come out all mixed up like a bunch of mixed nuts. ” Now I am not saying that crazy does not run across all races but why put all of that extra onto your children. You hear it when they have their interviews well the black people didnt accept and the white kids never accepted me. I was depressed never knew which box to check on census forms and job applications. Hell Tiger woods made up his own race caublanasian and then married the whitest women in the world (she is norwegian) . so lakeview terrace is not a movie that I am interested in however it is an issue in this country and much closer to home than u think. If it comes up yes I do work and deal with other races every day w/o issue. I am one of 3 black women in my department and I keep my political views as well as other views to myself . Lastly I do not teach antiwhite, I teach pro self to my children letting them know that there is more to us than gangbanging, murdering each other and felony. That we have greatness and have had a glorious past and what they are capable of is not hindered by their color , their color just enhances and inspires them to do and be the absolute best that they can .
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 9:22 am ¶
Jess wrote:
@GK–
I saw Gil-Scott Heron play in London in late 2001/early 2002. I remember hearing that voice, and thinking it was just like all the years had never passed. It was really, really wonderful. That voice, man. My favorite tune of his is “I think I’ll Call it Sunshine” actually. Still moves me almost to tears when I hear it, even more so when I think of how he screwed up his life so bad. But I guess not many are stronger than crack.
i wasn’t thinking that rapper were waiting for white people to get hip to it, but that once hip-hop mainstreamed (in part because of the Beastie Boys, another case of a white artist getting props for a black art form) that meant the money was going to be big, bigger than anything I think even rappers anticipated.
I mean, it meant that Tupac, et. al. weren’t just going to be selling enough to make a little money, they would sell enough to make a lot. You think the P-Diddy’s of the world could afford those huge mansions and white-only parties without it? Nah. Record companies are many things, but stupid isn’t one of them. They knew hits when they saw them. And rappers have to take some of the heat too, because too many said “Well, if I can be a millionaire by dressing/acting like a cartoon version of black people (I’m looking at YOU Flav) then what the hell?”
I don’t begrudge them that, by the way. We all gotta eat.
Elvis’ choice by the record companies was a combination of a racist culture (a black artist wouldn’t have sold enough) and also, to be fair, Elvis’ own early sense of what to take and what to leave out. He was pretty damned good at that, and did create something new that would appeal not only to people just like himself, but a wider audience.
But there is also the matter of timing and a whole lot of other stuff that goes into whether a musical form takes off. It isn’t just the race of the artist.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 9:31 am ¶
Tim wrote:
Mod note - spoilers ahead!
David Denby’s review of Lakeview Terrace in the New Yorker suggests that the movie, while flawed, is more complicated and interesting than the trailer / this reading of the trailer makes it out to be:
From the word go, Abel doesn’t like them, for some reason, and one of the strengths of LaBute’s film is that, for a long while, we can’t work out what that reason might be. It is mainly, but not wholly, an aversion to mixed-race marriage; Abel is offended by something else in Chris and Lisa—their liberality and hope, or their ignorance of the fractious patch of South Central that he patrols. Generations matter, too, and this is where Jackson’s age counts: in uniform, he looks beefy and buff, but out in his yard, slopping about in shorts and sandals, he seems to sag.
The movie was written by David Loughery and Howard Korder, not by LaBute himself, though it sounds a lot like him, in the lethal simmer of its conversation. (Brace yourself for Abel at the Mattsons’ housewarming party.) So much is at stake here: Chris and Lisa’s house overlooks a vale of undeveloped land, on the uneasy frontier of town and country, and there is a wider sense of an urban culture uncertain where to head next. It’s a shame, then, that the later stages of “Lakeview Terrace” should overheat and spill into silliness. The plot is compromised, not resolved, by the pulling of a gun. It was enough that Abel carried one with him at all times. Likewise, the barroom scene where he “explains” the source of his wrath tends to drain it of threat, and, as for the forest fires that rage toward the characters’ quiet road, thanks a lot, but I think we get the point about racial inflammation. The first hour of the film, however, with Jackson in command, feels dangerous, necessary, and rife with comic disturbance. Just like the man himself.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 11:16 am ¶
Ike wrote:
Yeah, I won’t deny that Harold and Kumar definitely dropped the ball when it came to women, but it had some pretty good anti-racist moments. And for a while, there was hope that its success would usher in more (and better) Asian American male representation onscreen.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
BEAT THE DEAD HORSE wrote:
I don’t think that the movie’s premise is completely off base. I’m in an interracial marriage and recently had racial epithets and a whiskey bottle thrown at us while we were walking through a parking lot in ATL. Black men scowling at us are all too common, but it usually doesn’t extend beyond that.
What I wish is that there were more flicks where a couple’s interracial relationship is NOT THE ENTIRE FOCUS OF THE MOVIE!!! Our relationships are based on our character, not our race. Run, Fatboy, Run and Heroes are the only media offering where interracial couples are presented in a “So what?” kind of way. If we’re only represented as hated and harassed, that’s how it’s gonna be.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 1:05 pm ¶
C-Marsh wrote:
I think that I’ll reserve judgement on this movie until I actually see it. I’m a big Sam Jackson fan and the movie seems interesting to me. I like to watch movies that deal with race outright. Most fail, but some don’t. I also don’t have that much faith in Hollywood to expect movies to serve as the beacon of understanding for anything, especially race relations.
The comments on this post have been quite interesting and made me think of a recent experience. At my old job, I was at birthday party for the Governor. Of course his Cabinet Secretaries were present and one of his Cabinet Secretaries is the son of a prominent Black Leader; although, the son is of mixed race (Filipino and Black). This Cabinet Secretary is married to a white woman. I was standing by an older black woman (early 40s) and I heard her whisper “I just think that is distasteful. After all his father went through and he marries a white woman.”
The generational aspect of her comment is what piqued my interest the most. I’m certain her experiences are vastly different from mine, so I’d be interested in seeing if and how this aspect plays out in Lakeview Terrace, especially after reading the link that Tim provided.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 2:13 pm ¶
S. Payne wrote:
Mod note - spoilers ahead!
It would be nice if you waited to actually see the film before you attempted to discuss “facts” of “points” of the film. You have entered into the worst type of book by its cover judgement possible. The films star is disturbed because his efforts to provide a safe, stable environment for his family is destroyed by a cheating wife who literally dies while engaging in her adulterous affair with a “white” man that her husband learns about as a result of her death. His anger is not baseless nor founded on an irrational hate for people unlike himself. Peace
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 3:23 pm ¶
Michael wrote:
Without conflict, drama or comedy for that matter, cannot exist. That is the nature of narrative. As a white male who has been married for 17 years to a black female (we have 4 children), I can tell you that the issue of interracial relationships including marriages is very much alive and kicking just like it’s bigger, older sibling – the overarching issue of race. Do people of color object to interracial relationships? Many do and many don’t. As conflict is a necessary part of visual story telling i.e. movies and television, we may see more people of color being strenuously opposed to such unions, however, I have never seen a movie yet in which such objections are articulated, that seemed totally false or over the top. This is not to say I felt that these were good movies, most were not, but race is not just a “hot-button” issue. It is among the very hottest. I wish I could say that my wife and i and our four kids have sidestepped all of that high-octane vituperation, but the truth is, we have not. We have seen it and felt it in all kinds of shapes, sizes and permutations and from people of all hues. it’s hard for me to consider any off it anything but “unreasonable”, but unlike the issue lasting only as long as the end titles in a movie, my experience with this unreasonableness can happen day or night, 24/7 and a million miles from my corner multiplex. – Michael
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 5:07 pm ¶
Joyce wrote:
Grey’s Anatomy has had a lot of interracial relationships since its premiere with very little reference to the racial aspect.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 6:01 pm ¶
Alese wrote:
So, when I saw the preview for the movie I thought…ooooh great, Sam and Kerry. Regardless of the racial themes, there are some excellent actors starring in the film and I simply enjoy seeing their work. I don’t doubt that it will be thrilling and suspensful, but then again I’m easy to please. Samuel L. Jackson just realizes that the best way to win an Academy Award is to play a bad guy (not my words but my theatre professor’s).
And I’m still confused. In all the courses that I’ve studied racism, I’ve learned that minorities, by definition, cannot be racist because racism is an act of oppression from a majority group on a minority group whether by resources or by act. Have all my teachers/professors been wrong? If you ask me, racism is far more present in the urban school system than IR couples.
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 7:18 pm ¶
Lorelei wrote:
i actually thought of a show that had white people freaking out over an interracial couple!!
in The 4400, Richard is dating a white woman. he is stationed in Vietnam/Korea (i forgot) and a bunch of his white colleagues find photobooth pictures of him and his lady together and beat the everloving shit out of him. then he gets abducted, some weird shit happens and the also-abducted granddaughter of his former girlfriend (also white) is pregnant with his baby? whatever and then Isabelle, their daughter, has relationships with white dudes and no-one seems to say anything (although.. i don’t think there’s any black men in the show for her to date… whatever).
it’s not perfect but i finally thought of one!!
Posted 18 Sep 2008 at 8:13 pm ¶
Ava wrote:
Reading the comments made me think of another movie where there is an interracial relationship between two POC- Face. The relationship is a Chinese-American female and an African-American male. As it focused on the relationships between the female, her long-absent mother, and the grandmother who raised her, this is where the conflict over the relationship arose, though it was far from the only conflict between the three women.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 3:08 am ¶
JB wrote:
The main trend I notice in recent films like this is the subtle suggestion that white men are reasonable heroes for women of all races and that the men of their own ethnicity should be rejected for them.
The Disney movie originally titled the Frog Princess called for a Black Princess and a White Prince balanced against a Black Witch-Doctor who is the antagonist. Sounds pretty familiar in terms of the depictions in this movie. What a lovely way to begin the brainwashing of young black girls across the worldas to what their ideal man should look like.
The White guy in an interracial relationship in hollywood is always some redeemed racist, or happy go lucky guy who doesn’t see race. The Black/Asian?Latino woman is portrayed as being brave enough to get beyond her “prejudices” and peer pressure that keep her from loving the always humble and perfect White man in the movies.
It is pretty obvious who has the finally say on who is depicted as always being potentially violent and dangerous (or weak and asexual).
I can’t help but think at times that this whole (evil black/asian(fu manchu)/columbian drug dealer) non white male antagonist trend is some sort of projection by white people on how they have abused power for centuries and some underlying fear that one day the treatments of discrimination, racial lynchings, and colonization will be visited upon them.
I find it interesting that Danny Glover can’t raise enough money to get a film made about the Hatian Revolution that overthrew the French because there were no White heroes in the script. It is self indulgent arrogance at its worst and a large reason I tend to watch science fiction moreso than any other genre these days.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 3:47 am ¶
Maysie wrote:
I’m also appalled by the continual showing of Black men as violent and irrational, esp. when they have structural power which happens so often (rolleyes). The trailer also was showing a lack of agency of the Black woman. Under patriarchy it seems she can’t ever have that, as someone previously mentioned.
I’d like to add a few examples of IR (movies and t.v.) in which nobody has a problem, POC or white folks.
The movie “The Score” starring Robert DeNiro, an excellent low-budget heist film set in Old Montreal, Canada also starring Marlon Brando and Edward Norton. DeNiro’s a professional thief on his “last job” and Angela Bassett is his girlfriend. She has a very minor part, and the film isn’t about them and their relationship, but it’s a positive portrayal. They have*amazing* scenes together, you really get a sense of their connection and love for each other.
Friends (I know, sorry, it’s one of my “things”!). Over the course of the show, Ross dates Julie (Asian woman) and Charlie (Black woman). Rachel objects to both of them, but no more or less than she objects to any woman Ross dates during a time that Rachel wants to get back with him. Charlie dates Joey just before she dates Ross, and Charlie goes back with her former boyfriend, another white guy, played by Greg Kinnear.
And finally, the movie “Boys on the Side”. This is the most negative, for me. Whoopie Goldberg portrays a lesbian character secretly in love with Mary Louise Parker. They never have a sexual relationship (spoilers ahead), MLP is ill with AIDS (contracted through a man), and Whoopie ends up being her caregiver at the end of her life. The community doesn’t object to the relationship, but it’s sexless and a cop-out of dealing with a (non) love affair between two women. Plus, you know, reiteration of Black woman in a racist caregiving role towards a white woman.
There’s a particularly bad moment at the end when Drew Barrymore, pregnant throughout the movie, gives birth. Her abusive ex was a white guy, the baby is black/mixed. Her current boyfriend (Matthew McConaughey), upon seeing the baby looks at Whoopie who raises her finger and says “Don’t look at me” for a final “chuckle” for the audience. Very not funny and very problematic.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 7:58 am ¶
Thea Lim wrote:
@ All
Wow, I feel like I can write a textbook on Hollywood movies with IRs now…thanks!
Sadly though, while we’ve been able to find movies with negative responses to IRs, positive responses to IRs and non-responses to IRs, I don’t know that we can find any movies with anti-racist (negative or positive) responses to IRs. I guess we should just make one…
@ Alese
Haha, I agree with you and your professors. That’s why I found the premise of LT so ridiculous – it’s apparently about how terribly racist and crazed this black dude is.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 10:49 am ¶
Jess wrote:
@Maysie
good suggestions, all. Except “Friends.”
More seriously, Friends had some good stuff w/r/t interracial relationships I guess. But I must be one of ten people in the United States who found it not funny.
First: bunch of kids who seem to have more money and bigger apartments than anyone I knew lived in.
Second: New York of “Friends” has only white people in it. WTF? That coffee shop always looked weird with only white faces in the background. My neighborhood is whitish, but the local Starbucks (71st and Broadway) isn’t like that at all. The one at 28th and 3rd even less so.
“All in the Family” gets my vote, as in some ways it dealt better with interracial relationships, though from a much different perspective and only sporadically.
What do people think of Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner? (I mean the one with Poitier). or Island in the Sun?
I bring these up because while I know around here people would probably say they have all sorts of problems — and they do — but thinking about them in terms of when they were written and made, is all.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 12:13 pm ¶
amateur editrix wrote:
Ugh. I HATED the scene were SLJ puts a ‘gun’ to the husband’s head. It was just too ‘fear the black man’ sort of thing.
Thea you’re totally right with how the movie has ignored forms of non-hostile racism; but most movies do, it just doesn’t make for ‘good drama’.
Posted 19 Sep 2008 at 1:50 pm ¶
Roxie wrote:
Ok, MrUniteUs we need to have a chat…in a movie theater particularly.
A few weeks ago we saw Don Cheadles face on movie posters with word Traitor underneath. A muslim that.
But did you SEE the movie?
Don’t get me wrong, it had TONS O’ PROBS (illustrated in a post here at racialicious). however, in the trailers they were very careful to steer clear of showing Cheadles’ character to be a Muslim.
Spike Lee has a movie coming out. All we get from the trailer is that a Black man killed a man.
Perhaps if you watch the first 2 seconds of that trailer, that might be all you get.
However, if you can get past the first 2 seconds the trailer shows a group of African-American soldiers trying to protect an Italian town while the Germans are on their way.
And you know, that’s a lot more education on African-American soldiers in WWII than I ever received in school.
My point is, trailers are not always the clear representations of the movies they’re advertising for (unlike this one for lakeview terrace). Book by its cover…judge not always..go see the movie…yadda, yadda, yadda
Posted 20 Sep 2008 at 11:10 am ¶
gh wrote:
“It may have slightly broken the mold by having 2 Asian American leads as stars, but the powers behind the film were White Jewish guys–like many Hollywood films.”
Jewish folks are generally used as middle agents- faces to be mad at….. instead of those with greater power.
Different note:
I looked at the real article that this movie is supposedly based on. Seems legit. Kinda makes this whole thing even more f-ed up! In my city, it seems like young black men are constantly harassed and even murdered by white cops. We have to protest and stand outside city hall for anything to get done about it at all!
But when a black man who was once a cop harrasses some folks…..a hollywood movie is made about it! Uch, this is so ridiculous.
And yeah, the premise just totally makes me laugh….what can you do what you can’t call the cops? Bwahahaha.
Posted 22 Sep 2008 at 12:28 pm ¶
white_american wrote:
There are a lot of themes in this movie. A lot of questions. If you can get a hold of a copy, read ‘The Isis Papers.’ Turner’s dialogue reminds me of some of the Black Militant rhetoric. Also, Bill Cosby’s comments on the plight of young African American males. The role of Turner may represent the frustration and anger of a whole generation of Black Americans trying to raise thier families and maintain thier cultural identity. This is a deep subject and anyone who has had any training in cultural diversity, sensitivity training, white priviledge and entitlement, will enjoy this film. I think that a lot of the issues in this movie might get missed in the drama of the film.
Posted 22 Sep 2008 at 6:42 pm ¶
JayOVAH wrote:
Black rejection of IR onscreen is a result of the lack of black-on-black relationships onscreen. It’s not surprising for black people to object just as white people object. Like most of you it seems on here, i haven’t seen the movie but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt that maybe Sam Jackson “just happens” to be a black cop who’s terrorizing a couple who “just happen” to be interracial. From what i’ve gathered from the trailer, Jackson’s character is power mad in general. Who knows…maybe he’s terrorizing other characters in the film as well. I can not believe that we expect IR couple to be portrayed in film and not have color issues never dealt with.
My problem with portrayals of IR relationships on screen harks back on what i referenced earlier. As a black person, i would love to see more black people in relationships with each other onscreen. IR couples are more often than not portrayed as having these deeply meaningful, passionate and loving relationships; same thing with white couples. Black couples are simply thrown together with no evidence of any real emotion or even backstory. Our relationships are often very simplistic in their portrayals. I think thats why it may be surprising to folks who hear black objection to IR.
Posted 22 Sep 2008 at 7:56 pm ¶
Rob wrote:
I found these comments while looking for spoilers on the movie. What’s shocking to me is I didn’t even pick up on the whole IR thing. I mean at all. All I saw was SLJ being the badass he plays so well and the fact that he was a cop the which was the hook. Honestly the race of the characters never really entered my head, but as a self avowwed capitalist pig the only color that really matters to me is green. $$$
Come to think of it, I’m pretty sure that’s the attitude of the movie execs too.
Posted 25 Sep 2008 at 10:47 am ¶
Vic wrote:
I was watching the priated version of Lakeview Terrance. There was one scene in particular to stood out to me as an Asian man. In the party scene, there was a white guy who comment that he was working his way through the racial chain of women and that he currently trying out the “pacific rim” (reference to Asian). The backyard patio conversatio included a black male/white female couple, white male/asian female couple, and of course, the main couple white male/asian male couple. In the background there were hispanic.
Being a race addict that I am, I thought to myself-how typical of the white mainstream media.
Lakeview terrance doesn’t serve as a move that hightlight racism, but serve to further the divide the non-white community. Every time I was a movie, the normal portray of an interracial couple are alway white male/non-white male, the reverse are always some slutty white girl and black guy.
Posted 10 Oct 2008 at 12:29 am ¶
Vic wrote:
Asian men are still invisible. I’m glad I didn’t spend any money on Hollywood racism.
Posted 10 Oct 2008 at 12:30 am ¶
Vic wrote:
I meant : white male/black female couple. I guess I had a mind gap, since I really never see a while man/black female couple in real life, so that movie is a stretch.
Posted 10 Oct 2008 at 12:34 am ¶
Rex wrote:
The problem with this movie is that it goes beyond just casting Jackson as the bad guy. I’ts that all the male black characters (of substantial roles) are pricks. That is, both Jackson, and the wifes father.
Now I can understand the “cop jerk” and I can also understand the “father in law jerk” roles. However, what bothers me is that the writer made the characters color, the essence of what made them the bad guys…
So what if its “BASED” on a true story. In that “true” story was every male black man involved in it is an asshole?
I for one cant believe that the writer “just didnt see” this. This is some kkk shit right here.
A shame, cause this movie could have really caused some positive dialog, instead of the negative I have seen.
Posted 12 Nov 2008 at 7:02 pm ¶
Rex wrote:
Hell, I need to expand on “this movie creating positive, dialog” vs negative.
The fact is this movie does bring up the issue of what has wrongly been termed, “reverse racism” (because racism is racism, any direction you push it, reverse racism would be the lack there of, or something…)
anyway.
Bring up that issue is a good thing, the problem is, the movies racist writing structure has over shadowed the real issues that this movie failed to high light.
Being “based” on a true story makes this all the worse, as it only serves to further enforce the stereotype onto the viewer.
I cant remember ever being this offended by a “mainstream” movie.
Jackson should be ashamed of himself…I hope he pleads ignorance, cause I don’t want to believe he did this on purpose.
Posted 12 Nov 2008 at 7:16 pm ¶
Rex wrote:
additionally, “Vic” you need to get out more man. Yes, white and black people are out there f$%#ing each other as we speak.
Oh no!!!!!
Posted 12 Nov 2008 at 7:20 pm ¶
Rex wrote:
ok, I just saw the ending to. =)
What a terrible example of a stupid white man…
“put the gun down” … of course he doesnt, now thats just bad cliche writing, even when you take away the race issues.
How much did these guys make? I’m movie to Hollywood to make movies. Seems like an easy gig.
The only thing I can say positive about this movie, is that I watched it to the end…but after that its all negative. =)
Posted 12 Nov 2008 at 8:05 pm ¶
Ccc wrote:
@dave 28 Days Later directed by Danny Boyle is a example. The couple wasn’t explicitly “a couple,” though. It was more understood.
Posted 13 Sep 2009 at 9:50 am ¶