Looking at Sarah, Somehow Seeing Condi

by Latoya Peterson, originally published at Feministe

As the uproar over the Palin VP pick enters its third week, the media and the blogosphere show no signs of letting go of mining every aspect of the controversy. Feministing put up a Friday Feminist Fuck No as to whether or not Sarah Palin is a feminist, Octogalore says we need to focus on the double standards being aimed at Palin, Alternet is comparing Sarah to Barbie, Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez is trying to talk her friends out of voting for her, Camille Pagila claimed Palin is a new “feminist force,” and Katha Pollitt ripped her a new one in her piece “Lipstick on a Wingnut.

Throughout this all, it appears that there are two dominant ideas swirling around this debate:

1. Palin cannot be a feminist because her views are in complete opposition to what is meant by feminism as a movement.

2. Palin should be supported because she is a strong woman, who represents what feminism is about and in many ways shows what the feminist movement has done for women.

Now, I’ve been following this debate with some interest, and watched many women mount impassioned defenses of Palin, and chide feminists for not providing more support to this strong woman candidate. I don’t care for Palin’s politics at all, and while I can see she was a smart pick for the GOP, there’s a big trump card for me. Palin doesn’t represent anything close to the womanhood I know. So while I listen with interest while people argue about how Palin represents “every woman,” I can’t relate. I just don’t see her in those ways.

But I can put Sarah Palin into context fairly easily, as the issues surrounding Sarah Palin, (white) women, and feminism correspond with the issues around Condoleezza Rice, black (women) interests, and racial politics.

When George W. Bush meandered his way into the White House, he managed to bring two African-Americans into the spotlight – Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice.

I spent a lot of time checking for Condoleezza Rice. By most accounts, she is a smart, driven, and poised woman. So how the hell did she end up on the side of the Republicans? To find a response, I read. And read. And read. I read Condi’s biography, her news interviews, the long form magazine pieces.

Contrary to popular belief, Condoleezza Rice does not seek to minimize her race. It has been recounted in almost every profile of her I have read.

I have a heavy admiration for what she has done and accomplished. And as a black woman, I must admit that I feel a small sense of pride, scrolling through her entry on Wikipedia, looking at all the things she has accomplished.

And yet, I disagree with her politics, even if I like some of her programs.

And while Condoleezza Rice is an accomplished black woman, who triumphed over adversity to become who she is today, this fact alone does not mean she will be a champion of black issues if elected to public office.

In some ways, Condoleezza Rice is like Clarence Thomas – they both were alive during some of the most pivotal moments in Civil Rights history. But their views on how blacks are to operate within the parameters of this society run counter to what most black Americans find to be true.

With Thomas – who was a former black nationalist – he was raised in poverty and segregation, yet he often ends up with an opposite interpretation of events. In various interviews and articles, he has expressed his rage at Affirmative Action programs, with his sentiments stemming from having to deal with all the assumptions that rise about black intelligence and ability while those programs are in effect. To him, the greater injustice was that people assume that blacks only advance to the levels they do because of government intervention. So, in his mind, the solution is to end these kinds of programs. Thomas now seems a bit uneasy with the pro-black activities he once participated in often clarifying his statements by stressing his age then and his age now. In the same interview in Businessweek, he notes:

The assumption is that, since you’re all black, you have something in common. That’s like saying because you’re all women, you have a lot in common. You might have nothing in common with these people.

Condoleezza Rice has a similar kind of outlook, though she speaks about racial differences often. She notes that racism is an issue in America, and pissed off some members of her party by accidentally reminding them that she was black. She has also expressed dismay at the lack of black faces at the State Department.

Yet, there is little evidence that Condoleezza will advocate for these kinds of changes. In 2005, Eugene Robinson – an op-ed columnist for the Washington Post – spent three days with Rice as she toured Birmingham and offered her commentary on Civil Rights and race. Robinson writes:

When she reminisces, she talks of piano lessons and her brief attempt at ballet — not of Connor setting his dogs loose on brave men, women and children marching for freedom, which is the Birmingham that other residents I met still remember. A friend of Rice’s, Denise McNair, was one of the four girls killed in the bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. That would have left a deep scar on me, but Rice can speak of that atrocity without visible emotion.

She doesn’t deny that race makes a difference. “We all look forward to the day when this country is race-blind, but it isn’t yet,” she told reporters in Birmingham. Later she added, “The fact that our society is not colorblind is a statement of fact.”

But then why are the top echelons of her State Department almost entirely white? “That’s an artifact of foreign policy,” she said in the interview. “It’s not been a very diverse profession.” In other words, there aren’t enough qualified minority candidates. I wondered how many times those words have been used as a lame excuse.

One of the things she somehow missed was that in Titusville and other black middle-class enclaves, a guiding principle was that as you climbed, you were obliged to reach back and bring others along. Rice has been a foreign policy heavyweight for nearly two decades; she spent four years in the White House as the president’s national security adviser. In the interview, she mentioned just one black professional she has brought with her from the National Security Council to State.

As we were flying to Alabama, Rice said an interesting thing. She was talking about the history of the civil rights movement, and she said, “If you read Frederick Douglass, he was not petitioning from outside of the institutions but rather demanding that the institutions live up to what they said they were. If you read Martin Luther King, he was not petitioning from outside, he was petitioning from inside the principles and the institutions, and challenging America to be what America said that it was.”

The civil rights movement came from the inside? I always thought the Edmund Pettus Bridge was outside.

I know very few black Americans who think of themselves fully as insiders in this society. No matter how high we rise, there’s always that reality that Rice acknowledges: The society isn’t colorblind, not yet. It’s not always in the front of your mind, but it’s there. We talk about it, we overcome it, but it’s there.

When Rice was growing up, her father stood guard at the entrance of her neighborhood with a rifle to keep the Klan’s nightriders away. But that was outside the bubble. Inside the bubble, Rice was sitting at the piano in pretty dresses to play Bach fugues. It sounds like a wonderful childhood, but one that left her able to see the impact that race has in America — able to examine it and analyze it — but not to feel it.

Condoleezza Rice is black. She knows this. She understands this. We have gone through similar struggles. But that does not mean she reached the same conclusions, and it does not mean she will use her position to advocate for other blacks.

Sarah Palin is a (white) woman. She knows this. She understands this. Many women can see themselves in Sarah’s narrative, as they have gone through similar struggles. But that does not mean she has reached the same conclusions about women’s rights, and that does not mean she will use her position to advocate for other women. (Of any color.)

I have a soft spot for Condoleezza Rice. I like watching her, always poised and professional, striding across the world’s stage like she owns it. At the same time, I can laugh at political satire like the Condilicious video:

And I can understand the joke and still be miffed at the underlying sexism/heterosexism in this Boondocks strip:

These kinds of relationships with women and nonwhite public figures will be complicated. You can hate someone’s policies and still defend them from ad hominem arguments. I hate when people say that Condoleezza Rice is a sellout and that she isn’t black. That’s a ridiculous assertion to make. However, that does not make Condoleezza Rice a civil rights leader just because she is black and in a position of power.

I hate when people say Sarah Palin is not a woman, or she is a tool of the patriarchy, or any of the other non policy related attacks I’ve seen leveled at her from all kinds of places. But that doesn’t mean you need to start sipping the “this is a victory for women” kool aid. It isn’t. Sarah Palin does not magically become a champion for all women, everywhere, just because she happens to be a woman in a position of power.

In this election, people need to understand to vote with their interests, not the symbolic interpretation they may hold of a certain person.

Listen to the words people speak.

Watch the actions that they take.

But don’t let your own ideas on who that person should be mask who they really are.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Tensegrities » Blog Archive » Palin and Rice, something in common? on 15 Sep 2008 at 9:54 am

    [...] an interesting analogy: Sarah Palin and Condi Rice. In particular, I like the conclusion: I hate when people say Sarah [...]

  2.   links for 2008-09-15 by ripples of hope on 15 Sep 2008 at 11:03 am

    [...] Racialicious – Looking at Sarah, Somehow Seeing Condi [...]

  3. “Looking at Sarah, Somehow Seeing Condi” by LaToya Peterson - Majority Post on 16 Sep 2008 at 7:04 pm

    [...] & Rice. It was originally published on Feministe, but also appeared on Peterson’s blog Racialicious.   You might also enjoy… [...]

  4. Alaska women say no to Palin, and other linkage. « Small-Town Elitist on 16 Sep 2008 at 11:05 pm

    [...] at Racialicious compares Sarah Palin and Condoleeza Rice in a respectful but critical manner. I enjoyed this [...]

Comments

  1. DivergentDana wrote:

    I’m confused. The conservative argument has often been that identity politics constitute blind, zombie-esque loyalty to those who share the circumstances of one’s birth — hence Thomas’s quote. When this proves false and marginalized groups fail to warm to their Republican counterparts, there’s cries of dismay and headshaking because we may have an actual political agenda that takes precedence over this racial/gender loyalty that’s been transposed onto us? Word?

    And McGruder would give that line to a female character… *eyeroll*

  2. Korolev wrote:

    I don’t think she is a feminist – she has benefitted from feminism, but feminism is more than who is in office – it’s about furthering the rights of woman, it’s about knocking down barriers that are solely to do with gender and sex.

    In this regard, I think Palin fails. She does nothing to support the fight for women to control their bodies (abortion, birth control, etc), and that’s a major area of concern. First and foremost a woman’s body belongs to the individual – no one should have the right to tell a woman what they can or cannot do themselves. It’s a fundamental aspect of human rights, and Palin doesn’t believe in it. So, she cannot be a feminist.

    Of course, Palin isn’t absolutely horrible when it comes to rights – the fact that she has tried her best to succeed and further her career speaks volumes about her sense of self-worth, and in that regard she should be emulated. Her choice to have children AND a career might have drawn a few frowns from certain sectors of society, but she went and did it anyway. So she’s not a horrible, ultra-conservative person who would ban women from universities and the work place, but she still isn’t a feminist.

    Feminism is about what you stand FOR, not what you’ve accomplished. She has accomplished a lot, and that’s always deserving of respect. But her conservative ideals fail her in the ideological aspect of feminism, which is the most important aspect.

    And on an aside – I just plain don’t like her. She’s corrupt (bridge-to-nowhere, as well as charging money for non-existant travelling trips, and remember her road-to-nowhere), and she’s a scary christian fundamentalist who would oppose stem cell research and teach people creationism. Anyone who seriously believes that the earth is only 6000 years old is NOT fit to be president, not fit to even graduate from high-school.

    Then again, I’m not an American. I can’t vote in your election. But for the sake of women in the USA, for the sake of school children, and for the sake of science, I hope Palin never, ever becomes president. I hope McCain doesn’t either.

  3. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @DivergentDana –

    That character in the Boondocks is Caesar. He’s a guy. The only women in the Boondocks are Cindy and Jazmine and Sara DuBois.

  4. J.J. wrote:

    This post was very thought provoking. It is interesting to make that comparison between those two women. I have seen all your points about Palin previously but I never thought of Rice that way.

    I do not think Palin is feminist because by its very definition a feminist is supposed to change the norms for the sake of gaining greater rights for women. . . no abortion under any circumstance (rape/ incest included) is not furthering a feminist cause.

    The trouble most Black Americans have with Rice is that she comes off as so disconnected. The very essence of being Black in America is about some sort of connectivity to others like yourself. It is why you notice school children subconsciously finding themselves sitting next to other Black kids in the class even if they don’t become best friends. (Of course this is a very simplistic form)

    Again, interesting post.

  5. Lisa J wrote:

    In a way Sarah Palin is my worst nightmare come true. I have said for years that our first female president would have to be very conservative and right wing. Sort of like Maggie Thatcher. I know Palin is a VP candidate but given McCain’s age and previous health problems, she could be it, and with all of the adulation she’s received from her party, I’m starting to worry that my prediction may come true. Very, very sad.

  6. Eric Grant wrote:

    I think with both Palin and Rice, you can argue that they are both evidence of some success for feminism (and in Rice’s case… whatever the equivalent concept would be for racial equality)

    and that they’re prominence also forwards the idea that an individual who is part of a marginalized group does necessarily have to stand as a representative of that group–that “women” or “blacks” or “black women” are not homogenous.

    I’d say that it is unfair to dislike them for their respective views _any more_ than you would dislike a white man for holding the same views.

  7. Eric Grant wrote:

    Also, unlike Ms. Palin, Dr. Rice’s success never seemed to me to be the result stunt casting.

  8. not that Sarah wrote:

    “However, that does not make Condoleezza Rice a civil rights leader just because she is black and in a position of power. … Sarah Palin does not magically become a champion for all women, everywhere, just because she happens to be a woman in a position of power.”

    Yes, exactly. I feel like this goes back to Thatcher; when a woman’s in power focus on her merits as a strong “role model” as much as a political agent.

    It obscures questioning who their allies are and what their policies will do to the masses of also “everyday” strong role models in communities they govern but may not share the values of.

    The foreign policies of their candidates on reproductive rights stands to maintain high maternal death rates in several other nations…should that be overshadowed in debates about POC and women’s rights by fawning over *any* 1 politician as a role model?

  9. Tasha wrote:

    The line that seems to be drawn between the parties. Help Yourself = Republican. Help you, help yourself = Democrat

    So with regards to that Sarah and Condi fulfill that aspect of the Republican stance of ‘pulling yourself up by your bootstrap’ and frankly to hell with everyone else.

  10. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Friends don’t let friends vote for McCain/Palin.

    I’m a white male and I don’t feel the need to vote for a white male candidate. I’m happy for my first opportunity to vote for a black man or second opportunity to vote for a white woman (Hillary Clinton, after Geraldine Ferraro). I’m not sure why anyone would vote based on identity politics rather than policy positions.

    Two words: Supreme Court. One more justice in the Robertson/Alito mode and you can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. A vote for Palin is a vote to recriminalize abortion.

  11. Lakergrrl wrote:

    @Korolev & J.J.

    Being prochoice is a not the litmus test of feminism. Unless you’re ready to say Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Victoria Woodhull, Eliza Bisbee Duffy, and Alice Stokes Paul were not really feminists. That’s like saying anti-pornography feminists are more feminist then sex positive feminists. Do they they having diametrically opposing viewpoints on an issue ? Yes. Are both groups still feminists? Of course.

    That said, do I think Sarah Palin is a feminist? Let’s see. While in office, she had sexual assualt victims pay for their own rape kits. She cut funding for a program supporting teen mothers (oh, the irony). And she is against sex ed teaching about contraception. So Palin= Feminist? No, not so much.

    @J.J.

    100% agree with your comments on Condi.

    @ Tasha
    Ditto

  12. thesciencegirl wrote:

    @Lakergrrl, cosign. I’m uncomfortable with one issue being “a litmus test” for feminism, as you so aptly put it. I have long considered myself a feminist, in the sense that I believe in the equality of women and the importance of combatting human rights violations against them/us, but as a Christian and as a woman of color, my viewpoints have not always been represented by mainstream feminism. And that’s okay, but I still claim the word feminist. I don’t believe in one set of viewpoints being able to co-opt a word or movement. But to be clear, I also find Palin scary and dubious that she would truly even consider herself a feminist. Not because she’s a Christian and not because she believes in Creationism and not because she believes abortion is immoral (all valid personal belief choices, and not an indicator of an individual’s intellect), but because she has shown through her political career (brief as it is) that she does not elevate women’s issues to a place of importance in her governing. The clearest example of this to me is the charging for rape kits. Other indications are her failure to decry the sexism against Hillary Clinton though she seems perfectly capable of seeing it when directed against herself.

    It is Palin’s intent to force her beliefs on the rest of the country that make her scary. I have a number of religious beliefs that are not shared by most people (e.g. I’m waiting for marriage to have sex), but I would not be comfortable with the idea of legislating morality based upon one religion (e.g. that would be like making pre-marital sex illegal. 1. that’s ridiculous, and 2. it won’t work). I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why make such a big freakin deal about other people’s personal choices when they don’t affect you? I don’t understand people who are one-issue voters about things like that. This is why, despite my conservative religious beliefs, I never feel represented by the Republican party. Well that, and my liberal social views. And the whole overwhelmingly white thing. And the ways in which conservative economics clearly benefit the already rich. And… well, I’ll stop there.

  13. browne wrote:

    The problem I have with Condi is her policy that’s it. That’s the same problem that I have with Sarah.

    I think sometimes people who are minorities whether they be it women or ethnic minorities is that they feel that just because someone looks like them that they are going to be on their side. I think as soon as people get over that fantasy the more well-adjusted that they will be.

    I judge people on who they are on the inside, yes that sounds cheesy, but I never get a soft feeling inside just because someone looks like me or shares my sexual organs if what comes out of their mouth is oppressive and their policies are oppressive.

    I can’t admire Sarah or Condi, because they both oppress people. If they were white men I wouldn’t admire them why should I admire them just because they look a bit more like me. That would be prejudice.

    I thought the civil rights movement was suppose to be about judging people by what’s inside not what’s outside. I sometimes think that there are two groups of people on the left, people who truly want the world to be fair and then people who want more people who do the stomping to look like them and that latter group is scary as all heck, they are the kind of people who think Palin is an ok person, because she’s a woman.

    I don’t want anyone to have the power to stomp on me (or anyone else.) I don’t care if it is a woman of color who is in a wheelchair. That won’t make it any better that might change the pieces of the game around slightly.

    But I don’t like the game.

    On the other hand I don’t hate them more, because they look like me and don’t have the same perspective as me.

    I’ve just never been good with the loyalty thing based strictly on gender and race. You can’t be my sister if what you do makes it possible for people to stab me in the back.

    I would take a blond blue eyed white man who was open and not oppressive over those two any day of the week.

  14. khia213 wrote:

    One of the hallmarks of feminism is the right of women to make choices about their own lives. Unfortunately that also includes the right to make bad choices.

    The problem with Sarah Palin is that she doesn’t support the right of grown women to make their own choices. She doesn’t support birth control or the right to choose an abortion. She doesn’t trust grown people to make their own choices about books, leading her to believe she should have them removed from the library. She, by way of her association with McCain, doesn’t believe in Equal Pay and the right to pursue a legal claim against employers who discriminate. She is under the believe that you can’t be a Christian and still accept that science is different than faith, in that she wants HER religion taught in school as scientific doctrine.

    Palin is a massively fail as a feminist. But she’s not the first to ride the coattails of feminists to her own ambition. She has one of the great anti-feminists of our time, Phyliss Schaffly, as her role model.

  15. em wrote:

    THANK YOU LATOYA! i have been incredibly disappointed with the media and blogosphere’s focus when it comes to sarah palin–until now! i love they palin / rice comparison, and i think you’re right on about focusing on POLICIES. between you and matt damon, i’m seeing a glimmer of light in the palin commentary. thanks again!

  16. Joseph wrote:

    @Latoya
    I posted this over on Feministe but I wanted to contribute to this conversation here at “home” too so:

    Another amazing piece for Feministe Latoya. I hope we can agree to disagree about Condoleeza Rice though. Her instrumentality in constructing and carrying out what has proved to be the worst foreign policy in the history of this country trumps all other considerations for me. The fact that she kept her job after 9/11 still makes me sick to my stomach.

    But you have crystallized something for me though in thinking about the role of racial and ethnic diversity in the Bush Administration. Fact is, W has chosen several conservatives of color for extremely high-ranking positions during his tenure (Rice, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo…) although this hasn’t been much commented on, maybe because the pervasive image of the neo-conservative movement is white, rich and male. However this political/religious philosophy obviously has a broader appeal.

    It seems to me that a hybrid political/evangelical Christian philosophy is what unites people as diverse as Bush and Rice and, by extension Pallin. Pallin’s popularity is based on her appeal to politically conservative Evangelical Christian voters–of both sexes. So while gender is being foregrounded in the campaign her political philosophy is incidental to it. While I agree that saying Pallin isn’t a woman is stupid and offensive, I think criticizing her for actively opposing feminist (and other progressive) values is important to opposing her campaign

  17. Vee wrote:

    Great post, hopefully people will be able to look beyond the symbolic interpretations of Change, Hope, Maverick, and Straight Talk.

    I didn’t hear about the rape kit charge.

  18. Vee wrote:

    I wonder if the media will really pick up the rape-kit story and paint Palin as anti-women?? She’s definitely not anti-censorship.

  19. octogalore wrote:

    Latoya — excellent piece as usual.

    Clarification — I did focus on the double standard over at my place and feel we can critique someone without indulging in double standards and that in fact our critiques are more likely to convince people who aren’t already convinced if we do. That said, my point wasn’t that this should be “the” focus, obviously the concerns you and others have raised are quite critical and a substantive critique should be the focus.

    I didn’t focus on the critique at my joint because it’s done more thoroughly elsewhere, and my site is a small personal site on which I typically do stuff that interests me, which usually is the stuff not as widely circulated.

    I admire the way you have discussed Rice and Palin in such a way that your feelings about their policies are quite clear, but you haven’t made it personal or felt the need to take out all nuance. I think this kind of discussion is the kind that folks who aren’t already on one side or the other will really listen to — which isn’t a bad goal.

  20. Tasha wrote:

    Vee – is this sarcasm? I would say she is pro whatever powers are pulling her purse strings at the time. If you are referring to the librarian incident i’d say she was pro censorship until confronted with a strong librarian (who’s life she made hell for years after) and the strong laws of the country.

  21. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @J.J. –

    The trouble most Black Americans have with Rice is that she comes off as so disconnected. The very essence of being Black in America is about some sort of connectivity to others like yourself. It is why you notice school children subconsciously finding themselves sitting next to other Black kids in the class even if they don’t become best friends. (Of course this is a very simplistic form)

    Maybe, but maybe not. Rice is interesting as she does not seem like a connector (racially or otherwise) to me. She appears to be a person who places a premium on getting the job done. But moreso to your point, is there a set idea on how to be connected to the black community? Where do we form these ideas? What does it constitute? Some of us were instilled with the idea that we must be examples and paragons of good behavior. (So, Condi may see herself as part of the talented tenth.) But others of us learn the adage that Eugene Robinson mentioned: lift as you climb. It gets complicated.

    @Eric Grant –

    I’d say that it is unfair to dislike them for their respective views _any more_ than you would dislike a white man for holding the same views.

    Interesting point. Does the vitriol aimed a Palin come from her policies, or because she is viewed as someone who should think differently?

    @not that sarah -

    It obscures questioning who their allies are and what their policies will do to the masses of also “everyday” strong role models in communities they govern but may not share the values of.

    Yes, this. Role models are important, but not the end game of these kinds of conversations.

    @Tasha –

    I think the Repub party would also be appealing to Palin/Rice for other reasons as well. They take a more hawkish stance toward international relations, and have aligned themselves closely with a “family values” movement. That does appeal to some people.

    @Lakergrrl –

    I wonder if Palin calls herself a feminist. (I mean pre-election – is she on record anywhere?)

    @browne –

    I think sometimes people who are minorities whether they be it women or ethnic minorities is that they feel that just because someone looks like them that they are going to be on their side. I think as soon as people get over that fantasy the more well-adjusted that they will be

    I’ll agree with that. I’ve said before that I believe in global brown solidarity – basically, investing in the struggles of other nonwhites across the globe – but with me, there is no expectation that we’ll see eye to eye on things. To me, it’s more important that we are working for the same basic goals.

    @em –

    I loved that Matt Damon video. But I heard a few people call it sexist. Go fig.

    @Joseph –

    Thanks for double posting. Sometimes I don’t like to respond on Feministe because it’s so busy over there. Most of the commenters are awesome, but it’s just a different feel.

    We can agree to disagree, but:

    The fact that she kept her job after 9/11 still makes me sick to my stomach.

    Why wouldn’t she have kept her job? Particularly if they were able to parlay the tragedy into global leverage.

    This kind of reminds me of this paper I wrote in college defending the World Trade Organization. When I finished my research, I felt sick writing that and included a lengthy section on critique. But I ultimately came to the conclusion that the WTO an effective body because it lived up to its stated goals – there is nothing in the WTO charter about fairness or parity. So sometimes, shit just is. We might be disgusted by what is happening on her watch, but we can’t lose sight of the fact that those may be her orders.

    Fact is, W has chosen several conservatives of color for extremely high-ranking positions during his tenure (Rice, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo…) although this hasn’t been much commented on, maybe because the pervasive image of the neo-conservative movement is white, rich and male. However this political/religious philosophy obviously has a broader appeal.

    It does.

    @Vee –

    Great post, hopefully people will be able to look beyond the symbolic interpretations of Change, Hope, Maverick, and Straight Talk.

    We hope so, but probably not. I feel like this election shouldn’t be as close as it is, but if it is, it’s our fault. I’m working on a post on the power of messaging.

    @Octogalore –

    I think this kind of discussion is the kind that folks who aren’t already on one side or the other will really listen to — which isn’t a bad goal.

    Something I really chafe at is how the discussion is being structured, and how quickly it falls back into these binaries. The “you’re with us or against us” talking point has permeated all sectors of debate.

  22. CVT wrote:

    This was a damn fine piece of writing. Great insight and research . . . Thank you for sharing.

  23. jvansteppes wrote:

    A friend of mine once told me about a book she read called ‘Letters to Condoleezza’ that I’ve been unable to track down, though perhaps others here have heard of it. A lot of what you write here sounds similar to the book Latoya [or perhaps you were a contributor?].
    It stood out to my friend because the authors were disappointed in both Rice and her detractors, especially the white ones who kept asking them to denounce her for being ‘a bad black’.
    Rice’s story seems a lot more complex to me than Sarah Palin’s. Sarah Palin’s father never stood guard so Klansmen wouldn’t attack her family, and when she speaks I think it’s pretty obvious that her white privilege has shielded her from a lot of realities Rice wasn’t able to avoid encountering. I don’t respect the job Rice has done in the Bush administration, nor do I agree with most of her politics, but I know I can’t understand her motivations [and that as a white person I'm just not entitled to delve into her black identity] but Palin, she’s another story. I don’t want to demonize her because of her daughter’s pregnancy but I feel pretty justified in pointing out that she has chosen the party most known for doing this to others. Her whiteness comes part and parcel with her hawkish politics and in 3 weeks she’s made more gaffes than Rice has over her whole career.

  24. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Re “Does the vitriol aimed at Palin come from her policies, or because she is viewed as someone who should think differently?” Mostly from her policies, but also because she may be the biggest liar and hypocrite to arrive on the national scene since George W. Bush.

  25. Pheagan wrote:

    Very interesting read. Condaleeza Rice as a parallel to Sarah Palin is very interesting, and more interestingly, you managed to reconcile the two dominant thoughts on Sarah Palin with each other.
    Actually, I’ve been wanting to see something like this on Condaleeza Rice for a while, she’s been causing a total feedback loop short circuit thing in my brain for a while, the whole, well it’s great to see a strong black woman in a public position but I hate her politics.
    And what’s also interesting is the insider-outsider change thing. I’ve been coming to the conclusion for a while that positive action brings more effective change than negative action. The whole outsider change thing, which I’ve been a part of, economically and politically, seems like trying to break through a metal wall by banging against it. That’s not to say outsider’s haven’t played a role in effecting change in the past. I think it’s more to do with the fact that society has adapted this amazing resistance to outsider change. I mean, the Iraq war, for instance, is the only war I can think of that was protested before it even began, and it seemed like the Bush administration had learned its lesson from Vietnam and was like “Sure, kids, have fun with your signs and speeches, say whatever you like,” and then went about making horrific policy changes that guaranteed their position and a certain unassailability. And it’s not as though those things haven’t been covered at all in the media, for instance the targeting of the black population in the 2000 and 2004 election has certainly been covered, it’s been covered by freaking Salon, but it seems that media saturation is now more important than media coverage.
    Gone off on a bit of a slant there. I guess it just seems to me that change now is all but impossible to bring except for from the inside.

  26. Slush wrote:

    Fabulous post Latoya. I too have a deep respect for Condoleezza Rice, at the same time as a deep loathing of most of her foreign policy decisions. I think she believes very strongly in establishing democratic governments as the way forward, which sounds good, but usually comes at the cost of equality, civil rights, and a lot of innocent lives. How she justifies those costs is where I can’t see fit to agree with her at all.
    It’s also pretty interesting how much she keeps out of the media, actually, and doesn’t get a lot of attention for her race or gender – although maybe she did back in 2000 and I’ve forgotten.

    The hype about Palin is just another testament to how little mainstream America understands about feminism to begin with. Extract the most watered down and disemboweled arguments of 70s feminists – that women need to hold high offices – and presto, any woman that does is therefore a great feminist achievement.

  27. sweetleaf wrote:

    i don’t know why, but i am compelled to share…i am a 52 yr white woman, and i state with passion that palin does not, i repeat does not, champion for me. i, of course was
    weened, came into my own with gloria and the “womens room”. am i a feminist? i dunno, but i do support and especially believe in equal rights for all, in all ways. i repeat ms. palin does not represent me in any way, shape, or form. in fact she somewhat demonstrates to me, that it is still a “man’s world”, maybe?

  28. Pheagan wrote:

    @ Lakergrrrl and @ thesciencegirl– I’ve been thinking about your comments for hours because this is something I believe, as well. I’m pro-choice but I think the abortion argument is a lot more complicated than most feminists make it out to be. However, I think if you are a pro-life feminist, that you must absolutely consider the impact it has on a woman’s life and take as much action in that area as you do in the area of pro-life activism. Focusing on adoption, foster care, and support for young or unready mothers is, I think, essential to those feminists who are pro-life. If a woman spends all day on a picket line and no time volunteering hours towards supporting young or unready mothers, giving as much money to orphanages as you do to pro-life causes, then I think her action is on the whole unfeminist, simply because that hypothetical woman is doing nothing to make adoption or going through with motherhood a viable option for those without the financial or emotional resources to consider it viable. I mean, I think it’s important for all pro-life people to do this anyway, but I think it’s absolutely essential for feminist pro-lifers. Someone like Sarah Palin, whose daughter’s “choice” is in the context of a well-to-do and supportive family, seems to be quite, quite unfeminist because her policies work so explicitly against those woman who make the difficult choice she wants them to make.

  29. bdsista wrote:

    I agree that people need to vote on the issues, their interests and not the symbolism people present. But my dissapointment with Rice is that she is a symbol. Anyone Black and female in her position is a symbol and a role model. I disagree with her politics a lot and find her to be insensitive about people’s needs. See Katrina and where was Condi?http://www.counterpunch.org/mabry05152007.html
    Having been in local politics, to be in any position of power as a Black person makes you a symbol and role model for others. That is the reality to deny it is to be beyond a fool. Its part of the responsibility that goes with the job. Palin’s symbolism has those whom I consider close friends looking at her and whom I now have the work of trying to get them to go cold turkey off the juice and look at the issues.

  30. Ange wrote:

    The trouble most Black Americans have with Rice is that she comes off as so disconnected. The very essence of being Black in America is about some sort of connectivity to others like yourself. It is why you notice school children subconsciously finding themselves sitting next to other Black kids in the class even if they don’t become best friends. (Of course this is a very simplistic form)

    Nope. not for this black girl. Condi is my mom. That is to say, my mom is a bad ass, overly educated (cause you gotta be 4850696 times as good, just to be average) who had to pay the fucking devil to dance to the music.

    I have way more than a soft spot for Condi. I ache for her. I ache because to get where she is she had to eat a lot of shit and make a lot of fucked up choices, that I wouldn’t make and I’m glad my mom didn’t.

    I hate seeing Condi and Palin conflated because Palin benefited tremendously from the feminist movement and AffirmAction without once having to thinking critically about either of those issues.

    Condi pretty much can’t go a day without having to stare those issues in the mirror. And while I have some serious, serious problems with a lot of her policies and the devil she chose to dance with, I just can’t go there. I have tremendous respect for Condi, but Palin, no way.