Helloooooo, Cho!: Margaret Cho’s new reality show

by Special Correspondent Fatemeh Fakhraie

I finally caught a rerun of The Cho Show, Margaret Cho’s VH1 reality sitcom-y show.

And I really enjoyed it. Not because I like Cho’s comedy. Not because she’s a woman of color on TV (one more for the team!). But because I can identify with her.

How can a twenty-something heterosexual Iranian-American identify with a thirty-something bisexual Korean-American? We’re both misfits.

Cho’s first episode revolves around her struggle with accepting an award from the KoreAm magazine for the Korean of the Year. She says herself that she’s felt a very cool reception from Koreans in the U.S. and feels at odds with the community because of past experiences. “They want me to perform, and they’re gonna hate me. I don’t play golf, and I’m not a good Korean that way,” Cho tells her parents about her nervousness regarding the award. She states that her biggest fear is “bombing in front of a room full of Koreans,” highlighting perhaps a desire to be accepted by her community for who she is at the same time that she expresses her anger over the lack of acceptance they’ve given her in the past.

Her parents buy her a traditional Korean outfit for a baby boy, dropping major hints at her having children. They pressure Cho by saying that “all their friends” have children and that “you have to have kids” to “become a complete person.” Ouch! They also caution her over her choice of an body-paint “dress” she considers wearing to the award show: “What my friends are going to tell us is how can you allow her to do, you know, something like that,” her father says, as if their reservations about her dress revolve around what their friends (i.e., the community) will think.

Cho is a misfit: she doesn’t look or act like a Korean woman “should,” evidenced by her line of work, her sexuality, her body art, etc. She and her entourage are all made up of those who don’t fit into “mainstream” definitions of “normal”: gay men, an assistant who is only 3’10” and moonlights as a burlesque performer, and plenty of guest stars of all colors, sizes, and shapes.

I can identify with Cho’s ambivalence towards the Korean community because I feel ambivalent about my belonging to my own ethnic and religious communities. I can identify with Cho’s irritation at hints about grandchildren because I’m sick of people hinting that I should get married (different, but still in the “domestic” realm). I can identify with Cho and her ragtag bunch of friends because, despite the fact that they don’t often get “mainstream” acceptance, they live their lives and love each other like everybody else. And they’re funny as hell.

Here’s a clip from the first episode. The Cho Show airs on Thursdays on VH1 at 11 pm EST.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. WMC Daily News Brief - Mainstream Media, Obama, Palin - Majority Post on 29 Aug 2008 at 2:09 pm

    […] sulphate in an attempt to delay the birth had a lower chance of their child having cerebral palsy. Margaret Cho’s New Reality Show 8/28/08 Racialicious: How can a twenty-something heterosexual Iranian-American identify with a […]

Comments

  1. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

    HELL YES.

    I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE CHO!!!

    I am South Asian. When I was younger, when “American Girl” first aired in the early 1990s, I was so excited and happy because I considered Cho to be the closest thing to South Asians, haha.

    (remember, guys, we didn’t have any TV shows back then that had South Asians… til 9-11 and then bam! we’re all over TV shows, portrayed as blood-thirsty angry ‘Moslem’ terrorists)

  2. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

    Ms. Cho, IF YOU’RE READING THIS, I don’t like kids, either, but I’d totally have a baby with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :-D

  3. Jenn wrote:

    l love Margaret Cho too, I am African American and I think any person that doesn’t fit within normal social constructs of being a woman can identify w/ Margaret.

  4. Tasha wrote:

    I feel like the show is only ramping up. Like the beginnings of the Chapelle show setting the stage, feeling things out…before it’s lets rip.

  5. DiosaNegra1967 wrote:

    margaret is my g-u-r-l! i especially vibe with her about getting ink at 35…..that’s when i started too….she’s way ahead of me with her ink….but, i think i’m catching up……i also totally understand about parental pressures to “have kids” and become a “complete person”….i’m 41 and still evolving, and have NO desire to be “what a Black woman should be” (at least not by THIS culture’s standards)….

  6. Lyonside wrote:

    Latching onto the Cho-LURVE… Between my ragtag-to-mainstream cadre of friends and I, we’ve grabbed everything we can on DVD or video of hers.

    Looks like this show will be the one show on VH1 I can watch with pride (instead of waiting for The Soup to cover it so I don’t have to watch).

  7. William wrote:

    I caught the re-run and am looking forward to the next episode. Her first episode revealed the teetering balance between parental expectations and one’s own ambitions.

    Definitely someone I could relate to :)!

  8. Juan wrote:

    WTF?! Margaret Cho has her own show [again]?!

    Damn, I’ve been missing out. *shakes fist at VH1’s program lineup that causing him to ignore the entire channel to begin with*

  9. Black Canseco wrote:

    MC’s alright–to me it just seems like she craps on her parents for easy laughs. like they’re still having an accent is something to ridicule. and the way her mom talks? i’ve never heard anyone protrayed as talking like that unless that person is the subject of ridicule.

    I don’t dig anyone who does that, but with her it seems slightly more disappointing because it seems to reinforce stereotypes. but hey, i could be wrong.

  10. jvansteppes wrote:

    What I love about Cho’s mom is that she makes a pretty gay friendly role model in a lot of sketches I’ve seen, and in a way that’s very telling about her generation. She’s always a bit surprised and bashful but then nods her head and moves on. By now she’s old enough to be my grandmother and I wish my granny had her attitude.
    I guess I’ve always found that even though Cho presents her parents as having say, more heteronormative values about her having children, she frames them in a very affectionate way so you feel like those differences can’t tear their relationship apart. There’s something relieving about it; whenever you see her parents at a show they look so proud and you feel excited for them…

  11. jvansteppes wrote:

    Oh, but I forgot to add, Black Canseco I do see your point about the risk of her mom becoming a caricature, especially because so many white people love to do impressions of her routine and it makes me cringe when they get to her mom.
    I also feel uneasy about the gay men she surrounds herself with because they so often fit the ’sex and the city’ stereotype of fashion-obsessed-gay-man-as-sidekick that dominates pop culture.

  12. E-ka wrote:

    @ jvansteppes

    I was a little apprehensive about her “glam-squad” and how they connect to this line of gay male “sex and the city” type stereotypes too, but when I watched the show I felt better than I thought I would. I think that has to do with the “reality tv” part of the show, how this is (or is supposed to be) who they are and what they do, and not some act hung on them to get laughs/function as a prop for straight audiences and characters. It seems authentic and not forced to me and it felt good to see other queer people on tv in a reality tv situation that isn’t just tila tiquila and queer eye for the straight guy, which I feel are mainly made for straight audiences.
    & feel you on the impressions some white ppl do of cho’s impressions of her mom. I feel pretty ambivalent/uneasy about that, also not sure how to articulate it.

  13. Black Canseco wrote:

    jvansteppes

    “I also feel uneasy about the gay men she surrounds herself with because they so often fit the ’sex and the city’ stereotype of fashion-obsessed-gay-man-as-sidekick that dominates pop culture.”

    But it seems co-dependent in a way, don’t you think?
    I’m from Chicag–Boys Town where it’s an 80% white gay neighborhood, and the interaction with WOC by gay whites (in chicago at least) is very fetishized by both sides. The guys treat WOCs like little cultural toys they can play with, mock and use as mascots. so many guys in Boys Town seem to do blackface without the make up in regards to mimmicking mannerisms, voice, etc. of black/ethnic women. like it’s empowering to them in some sort of way.

    Ironically gay Black men get turned away from bars/clubs in boys town and straight blacks get treated like crap in Boys Town by the very same folks.

    but that’s another story for another time

    I had a few friends that loved MC, and they automatically went to the impressions of her mom as if ethnicity were somehow part of their marginalization as gays. like making fun of her mom was sticking it to “them” or something.

    but Cho goes along with it. It’s almost like Gwen Stefani and her little asian school girl thing in some of her videos, etc.

    I just find the whole thing strangely self-defeating somehow.

  14. E-ka wrote:

    also @ fatemeh

    I’m pretty sure Cho doesn’t identify as a bisexual, but a quatrasexual as she’s attracted to mtf, ftm trans folks and m & f cis people. but don’t take my word for it,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7FWnIc7tA0&feature=related

  15. Dawud wrote:

    I won’t be watching this. I have enough dysfunction w/o watching this “do-do.”

    Clownin one’s own parents isn’t entertainment; it’s ignorant.

  16. browne wrote:

    I love Margaret Cho. I so want her to do well, but sometimes she makes me sad.

    I saw her doing burlesque once in LA and it made me so sad. I wanted to cry. I have followed her career since the early 90s. I was sad, because she was so talented and beautiful and to me she was too good to do that. No offense to burlesque dancers, but it doesn’t seem like a happy thing to gyrate on stage half naked for the amusement of another human being.

    She deserves better. If she were thinner or not Asian or a guy she would get better. Someone that talented should be owning the clubs that has burlesque.

    This is why I hate TV and movies, because it does this to talented people. It makes them insecure, because they aren’t “ideal”. Ideal is boring.

    She is so talented and I feel she gets put in bad positions because of race and gender. She’s damned if she does, she’s damned is she doesnt. I wrote a little post on her talking about my disappointment in her caricature of her parents, but I felt really bad about it. I don’t want to get on the judging Margaret train.

    I just hope she has the strength to love herself. She’s beautiful. She’s talented. She’s funny, but she seems so insecure and for good reason.

    She doesn’t fit into any mold, but I think she wants to. We all want to fit in.

    I hope she has faith in herself and doesn’t cater to the easy laugh. She’s talented enough that she doesn’t have to do it, but I know she’s probably scared that this won’t work (her show) and she’ll end up teaching acting classes at the learning annex…

    Go Margaret.

    Browne

  17. JC wrote:

    I think most Koreans won’t want to admit it, but they have more problem with her having a white bf/husband than anything else. She would have had much, much warmer acceptance if her husband or lover is Korean too.

  18. Black Canseco wrote:

    I think most Koreans won’t want to admit it, but they have more problem with her having a white bf/husband than anything else.

    i had a good friend of mine who’s half-black and half-chinese. When her 100% Korean finance brought her home to meet his family they disowned him. It got ugly—they just didn’t like black people and never accepted her. They ultimately refused to attend the wedding.

    Still i think like any other group that deals with interracial couples the biggest issue might be having “one of your own” make u the butt of most of her jokes in mixed company with almost no complexity to the jokes.

    Plus there’s something about ripping on your folks for apparently no reason other than they have an accent and were born in a different country that just comes off as mean. It’s like you’re ashamed of them and you think you’re better than them.

    that can make just about anybody a little nauseous.

  19. elise wrote:

    @browne - We had completely opposite reactions to MC’s burlesque. I loved it. I found her whole show - that featured burlesque performers of all shapes and sizes including Selene Luna who is also featured on her show - to be so empowering.

    The theme of that show (not knowing when or which show you might have saw) was that you can be sexy no matter the package and MC owned herself, the stage, and the message. I didn’t feel that she was doing it out of insecurity or for the amusement of others. It was a very sex-positive, body image-positive experience. I recommended it to everyone.

  20. Fatemeh wrote:

    E-ka, I was going off of Wikipedia’s entry, which has citations. But quatrasexual works, too. Thanks!

  21. jvansteppes wrote:

    Black Canseco
    I have a feeling I could spend hours talking to you about the trials of the gayborhood and its white male captains. What you describe is totally what my queer friends of color tell me about all the time and I am sick of reading gay histories about white gay icons ripping off the Harlem ball scene or black female performers without giving any credit or asking themselves if their appropriation is well, appropriate…

    I don’t think its a strict matter of Cho exploiting her gay dudes like Sarah Jessica Parker, who needs her fags to be cartoons. There is however, this way in which watching gay men relegated to the fashion sidekick just irks me. I don’t mean femininity or fashion, those can be empowering for anyone and Cho herself is a wicked femme; it’s the expensive hair cuts and designer only business I’m getting sick of.
    And lots of gay men of all kinds have to conform as much to those stereotypes as they possibly can, which leaves gay culture looking like a really homogenous place to plug into.
    And it’s time to stop myself.

  22. Gothic Guera wrote:

    FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Fatemeh Fakhraie! I also can identify with Ms.Cho, since I was picked on for my heritage (The reason I found this blog!) and feel ambivalent towards “ethnic” group! I have to say this her parents are cute. (Cute in the way old people are) ;)

  23. Gothic Guera wrote:

    oops I meant to write my “ethnic” group. my bad

  24. Randy wrote:

    Margaret Cho annoy me. I am tired of Asian comediennes using their parents as comedic fodder. Honestly, how many Margaret Cho’s and Dat Phan’s do we have to sift through to get enough of the “My mom has a funny Asian accent” routine?

    Also, one thing you should keep in mind is that many people who are so-called “misfits”, are that way because they GET OFF on the getting reactions out of people. They are narcissists at heart who live for the negative reactions of people and the attention they get. I suspect Margaret is playing up her misfit attributes for the camera.

    After all, if all Margaret does is wake up and has cereal for breakfast and reads the newspaper and microwaves a Hot Pocket for lunch, there wouldn’t be much of a show to watch now would there?

  25. Black Canseco wrote:

    jvansteppes

    “gayborhood”? i never heard that one before. In Boys Town in Chicago, 3 out of every 4 men are gay. There’s something crazy about walking down the street and knowing something so intimate about somebody just based on their zipcode.

    Funny part was when people in BT assumes I was gay, they treated me pretty nice. When they’d hit on me or see me with a woman, they’d treat me totally different. Except for the transgenders–most of whom were east asian and hispanic—they were pretty much cool with everybody.

    Cho’s not as bad as the SATC-phenom, but…

  26. Lisa wrote:

    Okay, so I feel like she’s making a big deal about chafing at being held to a standard of “normal” while at the same time making jokes that are predicated on another, her own, equally limited standard of “normal”.

    Some people speak a second language with an accent and like to wear vests - so what? A lot of Koreans play golf and love their pastel polo shirts - so what? (But really, why pastel polo shirts? I just don’t understand.) There is a lot that is fascinating, complicated, problematic in Korean and Korean-American culture that she could explore more. The stubborn insularity. The cultish intensity of Korean-American churches. But those don’t make for easy laughs.

    I total agree with the bullshittiness of the “all gays are label whores” stereotype.

  27. Katie wrote:

    I too have mixed feelings about MC. I saw her perform at the True Colors Tour, and watching a whole amphitheater of mostly white gay men explode with laughter as she did her imitation of her mother(’s accent), AGAIN, was one of those moment where you just want to teleport the f*** out of there and never come back. I would probably find it funnier if it was to an audience of Korean Americans, but as it stands, it’s just playing into the stereotypes that already exist, to me. I don’t need more white people - or anyone, really - using MC as an excuse to tell me I’m overreacting when I hear someone do a fake “Asian” accent.

  28. browne wrote:

    Elise I get the all women can be beautiful, but is that how we all can prove we’re beautiful? Posing naked, getting naked and objectifying ourselves?

    I don’t want the right to be objectified.

    If that’s what you want to do, fine. But I’m not going to say go-girl or think you’re being empowering. You should have the right to do any horrible thing you want to do to yourself. If you want to shoot up heroin, go ahead, that’s you. Is that empowering, I’m going to say no. And wanting to be viewed as sexy is like heroin. It won’t just stop there. You keep doing more and more extreme things and in the end you just end up “ugly” and hating yourself.

    I’ve tried and tried to be cool with the burlesque trend in LA, but I just can’t. I’m nowhere near a prude, but there’s got to be a more empowering way to be beautiful.

    Women in general take off for clothes for money because they have no options. If people want to pretend as if it’s art to get through the day fine, but it is not art. It’s horrible and exploitive. I’m not for banning it, because as I said it is something for women to do who have no options. I’m not one to take away people’s options. You do what you have to to do, but if you don’t have to why?!! Why do this??!!!

    If we don’t agree with the mainstream why are we using mainstream activities to prove we can all be beautiful. Burlesque is mainstream. Mainstream alternative, but it is mainstream in LA. In LA everyone who is in the arts has been to a burlesque show. We have all been to jumbo’s clown room. We’ve been to all of the various theme burlesque acts and I for one am sick of 40 years olds who still think the most important thing is to be pretty in that kind of way. I’ll give someone a break in their 20s that’s what your 20s are about, but you think by your 40th birthday you would have gotten over that wanting to be thought of as sexy thing.

    Women deserve better. Society deserves better. I want to be respected. I don’t care if you think I’m pretty. I am 30 years old. I’m over the please like the outside of me, so that I would be the kind of person you would like to put your penis in. Because being naked or a little naked in America that’s what it is all about. America is not progressive enough to view nudity as anything not related to sex and women who are viewed in that light in America are viewed as holes to fill. I wish America wasn’t like this, but this is our culture. This is how we are. We are prudes.

    It is not about art, its about sex and if you want to be desirable in a sexual way and that’s your main purpose in life, I’ve got a list of mental health professionals that you should probably run to.

    Not you Elise, I’m just talking in a general kind of way.

  29. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @browne -

    I’ll try to dig up the interview, but Cho was talking about her show (in Marie Claire?) and specifically mentioned burlesque as a way she felt empowered. It was specifically because she hated her body for so long, because she abused it, because she was so uncomfortable with it, jumping up on stage night after night and exposing herself, to her , was a therapeutic exercise.

    We actually have a piece in development right now (*ahem Ali ahem*) about the politics of reclaiming burlesque for women of color, particularly those whose bodies do not conform to certain standards of beauty.

    But to each their own - I’m not knocking what you say browne, but the more I speak to people, the more I find that one person’s idea of liberation is another person’s idea of oppression.

  30. browne wrote:

    “The guys treat WOCs like little cultural toys they can play with, mock and use as mascots. so many guys in Boys Town seem to do blackface without the make up in regards to mimmicking mannerisms, voice, etc. of black/ethnic women. like it’s empowering to them in some sort of way.” the Black Canseco

    Some of my white male gay friends used to make me very uncomfortable and I did not know why. I then realized what you said above. They thought I was a toy. I then began to challenge them. I asked “is that voice you are using, is that supposed to be a black woman?”

    I was very upfront with them about it and then they thought I was a party pooper. I want to state though not all white gay men are this way not even most, but just a few selection, but it is common enough that I was very offended after awhile. I had really been giving certain people a pass, because they were minorities. I viewed gay white men as minorities, but now I’m over that. I will call out any minority straight black woman, gay white man, bisexual latino, because anyone has the potential to be an a** and we have to remember to not forget that understanding and diversity is not a one way street.

    Oh off topic, but in regards to Korean-Americans and having an issue with Margaret Cho’s husband, because they want you to marry Koreans. I have had the complete opposite experience. I had this older Korean-American friend who was constantly trying to set me up with her son. She owned a gift store. It was crazy. She would invite me over to dinner and then he would do something weird and she would take him in the back and yell at him (dude was weird though)…freakin’ crazy…lol…maybe she was too nutty to be an example, but most people are basing their opinions on personal anecdotes so that’s one of mine.

    Another personal anecdote: I also dated a Korean-American and his parents had no problems with me, no more problems than the white people that I’ve gone out with parents. And this was in LA post riots and we were in high school, so…Ive dated several Korean-Americans, some parents had problems and some didn’t. It’s not just Koreans. I went out with a black guy and his mom was jehovah witness, she couldn’t stand me. Actually pretty much every black guy I have ever gone out with parent’s pretty much hated me…so what does this say? I don’t know.

    Maybe since they were black they knew they could hate me for being the nut that I was and not appear racist…lol….

    I think if Cho went out with a white lawyer type guy he might be more accepted. Her man is pretty crazy. He does a blood performance show. I would bet if he had a white wife the typical white community would have an issue with him too, so lets be fair on that front. Dude is not exactly conventional.

    I think in every culture you have hardcore people, but in every culture you also have people who don’t really care. I think to characterize the Korean-American community in this monolithic manner, is very unfair.

  31. browne wrote:

    The piece on burlesque should be interesting, because I was under the impression that burlesque, stripping and prostitution (voluntary and involuntary) has long been an option and at times the only option for oppressed women outside of the mainstream since the beginning of time.

    Have there been any blue blood strippers? Have there been any born rich women they have ever had to go out in public and gyrate for cash?

  32. Matt wrote:

    As far as Korean attitudes toward outmarriage, I think it has to be seen in a context of near constant Japanese and Chinese occupation and imperialism. I say this as the white guy two Korean parents have some difficulty with and also as a Jew whose thought about a similar process. The idea that something uniquely Korean persists is rather amazing. It seems a fair bit of Korean identity has come to be based on this, and I think there may be a fear of a quiet destruction.

  33. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @browne -

    Burlesque/stripping/prostitution are all different fields with different histories. And there is a difference between doing something out of necessity and seeking something on your terms, but finding it denied to you based on skin color.

    There have been blue blood strippers. Women enter for different reasons. I’ve read a few stripper biographies and the reasons for doing so are as varied as the practitioners. Some had stories of sexual abuse, some were revenge stories, some were stories of curiosity, some were stories of sexual empowerment after an awkward adolescence.

    I find it best to listen to the voices of the women who engage in these activities, rather than strip them of their personal agency by writing them all off as victims of oppression. Renegade Evolution has what I think is a good differentiation between terms, as she talks about sex workers and prostituted people.

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/18/the-sex-workers-rights-thing-an-overview/

    And, check out the entry on the problems with treating all forms of sex work as one monolithic entity:

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/22/sex-work-activism-three-the-problem-with-creating-a-monolith/

  34. Ike wrote:

    Re: Asian comedians who make fun of their parents’ accents

    Really, I’m sure there’s something their parents do that is funnier than their accents. My mom has a slight Chinese accent when she speaks English, but if I were to tell a funny story about her, it wouldn’t have anything to do with her accent. Like maybe that one time she tried to convince me that my dog’s tail would fall off if I pulled on it because “it doesn’t have bones in it”. >.<

  35. Winn wrote:

    Latoya said: I find it best to listen to the voices of the women who engage in these activities, rather than strip them of their personal agency by writing them all off as victims of oppression.

    Thank you and can I get an amen! It is so belittling, disempowering and infantilizing to suggest that women who engage in sex work for their own individual reasons, and those who have been forced into sex work due to extreme poverty, abuse, or political oppression, are one and the same and are victims of exploitation. Women are not a monolith, and their experiences of and feelings about sexual agency and how to express it are not monolithic either. There are college-educated, professional women, artists, musicians, performers, writers, visual artists, poets and others who have engaged in sex work and sex-positive activities. Often, this work is a form of social activism, dedicated to making concepts of beauty and sexuality more inclusive, so that WOC, larger women, disabled women, etc. have an opportunity to discover, celebrate, and be celebrated for their own sexuality. It is not always subject to the male gaze either, but is often about women celebrating other women in supportive and encouraging ways.

    Margaret Cho has spoken frequently about finding her experience with burlesque both empowering and freeing. In my opinion, one of the most sexist acts is to disregard women’s personal narratives and interpretations of their experiences because we are convinced that we know better than they do. Even if they’re too dumb to know they’re being exploited, we know, right? To reiterate Latoya’s last point, one person’s idea of oppression is another’s idea of liberation.

  36. Marisol LeBron wrote:

    I’m a little late on the thread but I just wanted to post a link to Brown Girls Burlesque. I have a friend who in involved with them and talks about the way that they try to empower WOC to feel confident and sexy in their bodies regardless of size or ability. Check out their myspace page which has alot of really great links:

    http://www.myspace.com/browngirlsburlesque

  37. Black Canseco wrote:

    “My mom has a slight Chinese accent when she speaks English, but if I…”

    My family’s from the south and i was born in chicago. i have the least accent of everyone. There’s a difference between joking about an accent and cooning it up.

    I don’t know any Koreans or Asians that have accents as exaggerated as MC makes her mom out to be. I’ve even heard her mom interviewed and it’s not even close.

    Again, maybe it’s not my place, but it’s almost like she’s pissed off at her parents for not being more like her or something.

    But hey, they haven’t disowned her and people keep coming to her show, so i guess it’s alright.

  38. browne wrote:

    In regards to burlesque if you think it’s empowering that’s cool, but I think it’s degrading. Why am I getting the feeling that I’m thinking the “not cool” way. I can’t have an opinion that’s opposite of the trendy?

    You think people who do porn and take off their clothes for money are having happy lives? You want your daughter to grow up and take off her clothes for a living, fine. I think it’s sad, but I also think being a lawyer is sad.

    I have a problem with middle class and upper middle class women taking something that is very oppressive and making it cool and completely pretending like there is nothing negative about it. If you like it fine, but don’t act as if there isn’t something wrong in some aspects of it. And it’s not the nudity or the sex part. It’s the exploitation part.

    Painting the sex industry as if it is something that the majority of people in it want to do is like trying to say that Pretty Woman is a factual account of prostitution.

    I will make a general statement that I stand behind, while there are some people who like the sex industry the vast majority of people in it are in it, because they have no choice.

    Nobody wants to have people ejaculate on their face for a living and that’s what burlesque and those kinds of things lead to. I view burlesque no different than I view porn.

    Look I’m not saying I have never seen porn and I’m not saying I don’t like it on a base level. I love sex, I love porn, but I also like drinking and doing other things that in excess aren’t good for me and I know that the woman that I’m watching in these videos with my partner or when I’m at a bar and watching someone on stage that the people I’m watching are exploited.

    I’m a woman and I’m looking at them in a sexual tool way. Maybe I’m a pervert, maybe when you see a woman in porn or dancing around sexy you see art.

    I view myself as a feminist (working on being a better one) I can’t even imagine what guys are doing.

    They aren’t paid a fair wage for what they do and it’s a dirty business. I know the same thing when I go to an eatery and I see the people in the back cooking and cleaning for what I know is under the table wages unfair wages. I know it when I buy clothes, I’m buying clothes made by someone who made an unfair wage and I’m contributing to that. I’m not going to lie to myself to make me feel better about what I’m doing.

    Are we going to say I’m wrong for saying that undocumented workers are exploited too? That them being exploited because they need the money is their right and we shouldn’t comment on the atrocities that being paid under the table manifests?

    Go to strip bar around 3pm in LA and see all of the “happy” women there and you tell me how empowering you think that is. Go to strip bar for five days in a row sober and tell me how you feel?

    Heck most strip bars will let just about anyone try out. All of you that think it’s empowering and glamourous why don’t you try it out and tell me how it feels.

    It’s pretty easy, they’ll let anyone willing to take off their clothes and shake it do it. I would truly like to know what people who write on this topic, but never had to do it for money think about this issue once being from the other side.

  39. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @browne - Did you read the links I gave you?

    Why am I getting the feeling that I’m thinking the “not cool” way. I can’t have an opinion that’s opposite of the trendy?

    You think people who do porn and take off their clothes for money are having happy lives? You want your daughter to grow up and take off her clothes for a living, fine. I think it’s sad, but I also think being a lawyer is sad.

    It’s not the opposite of trendy and you have a right to your opinions. But lawyers are paid to perform a service, as are sex workers. If there wasn’t a need for these services, they wouldn’t have a job.

    What I take issue to, specifically, is the removal of agency for women who are “making bad choices.” I feel like a lot of young women make uninformed choices about their lives and bodies, based on popular culture. It is one of the reasons I am a hip-hop feminist.

    But, I find myself chafing hard at the idea that these women don’t know their own minds, or have fallen victims to society’s oppression. Just like you came to your conclusions, someone else has lived through life and made their own, based on their experiences and what happened to them.

    I don’t care how fucking stupid someone else’s decision looks to me, I respect their right to make it. And I don’t see what slut shaming accomplishes. Calling Melyssa Ford an exploited person downplays her agency and business acumen. Even someone like Whyte Chocolate (best known as the ass Nelly swiped a credit card through in the Tip Drill video) can sit in a book on hip-hop and masculinity and proclaim if people are paying then she doesn’t care what they do - it’s sad, but that’s her choice.

    That’s something she lives with. Her choices, the direction her life, everything - it is up to her to decide what she wants to do.

    So I could sit here, cluck my tounge at those girls over there and feel superior.

    Or I could figure out the why behind what is being said or done and present an alternate take.

    Either way, my main goal is for women to be able to make the best choices for themselves in any situation - not necessarily choices that *I* agree with.

  40. jvansteppes wrote:

    This is the kind of statement that got me hooked on your words in the first place Latoya.

    Browne, I think the other thing to remember is that there are a lot of different kinds of burlesque, not all of which have to do with stripping, and it has a place in queer communities especially as a place where people can celebrate non-normative bodies and gender bending. Many of them are like drag shows but a lot more inclusive of different styles of performance. Very few of them could accurately be compared to strip shows for reasons that have already been listed here.

    Black Canseco, I call it the gayborhood so I don’t have to call it Le Village which is what ours is called here in Montreal. Here they even change the feminin ‘une’ and ‘la’ to ‘un’ and ‘le’ so they can masculinize everything. This is particularly intense because in Quebec you can get in trouble for having bad grammar on your signs. I hear what you’re saying about getting treated worse when people don’t think you’re gay too. The flipside of that is that certain straight couples like to hold hands and other PDA in this really obnoxious way because they’re afraid that we might mistake them for queers. So much for a friendly community…

  41. Black Canseco wrote:

    Jvan,

    Straight US Males don’t hold hands unless they’re a couple… I’ve seen hand-holding in different cultures in europe and Africa and the occassional kiss on the cheek as common between straight males, but it’s a total no-no stateside.

    people are just funny here about non-sex affection among men.

    It’s much more accepted by women/girls, tho. Growing up in black communities i didn’t see it nearly as much among black girls as i did among white whites in high school, college, etc.

  42. Candelaria wrote:

    One of the things in the post that got lost in these comments I think - is ambivalence about one’s heritage.
    No matter how hard we try, we cannot (and perhaps should not) divorce ourselves from our family. What I’ve realized time and again as I’ve gotten older, is that my family loved me, nurtured me and launched me as best they knew how. They prepared me to interact in a world they didn’t necessarily understand. Now that I’ve had children who are grown, I undersand my parents better.
    As much as I pulled away from the restrictions of the community in which I grew up, I can still see how blessed I was to have that community.
    The only thing worse than having a family is not having one! And I’ve met plenty of people who didn’t have a supportive family and even people who were adopted or fostered and don’t really know their racial identity.
    Writers, comics, artists, etc., we all plum our family for content - critical and celebratory. TV makes everything more “in your face” and these reality shows do play it to the TV and become more confrontational and dramatic than is perhaps the true reality.

  43. Torontonian wrote:

    Margaret Cho annoys me. That clip isn’t even funny.* It’s stereotyping and dehumanizing gay people, and stereotyping her parents.

    * except for deadpanning “oral”.

  44. Persia wrote:

    I started the first episode of the Cho show and wasn’t fully comfortable with it. After reading your entry, Fatemeh, I decided to give it another shot. This was the “beauty pageant” episode, and though there were some predictable moments, I liked the way she acted around her entourage and family. Her parents came off as decent people, not stereotypes, and it was really funny in places.

    jvansteppes, thanks for pointing out the difference in burlesque, and LaToya, for pointing out that not all sex workers are the same.

  45. browne wrote:

    In my opinion the differences in the sex worker right’s movement seems to be based in a classist paradigm.

    There seems to me that people who don’t have to do it want to be viewed as different as people who do have to do it for cash.

    I of course view every worker of every movement as individuals, but to me the differences in sex workers seems strictly based on class.

    If you are middle class and educated and you do it for fun that group seems to want some special designation. I could be off based, but it sure looks like that from where I am sitting.

    You know the “We’re not like a street walker, we’re different. We’re making a statement.”

    It seems to be the same kind of rights brought to you by upper middle class “feminists” whereas some people’s rights and designation as inviduals trumps that of everyone else and everyone else is the poor and women of color.

    I am for sex workers having rights. I’m for the decriminalization of sex work, but I’m not for making a hierarchy within sex work. To me that would seem to make some fields of sex work more ok than others. Sort like how pot is not ok, but smoking and drinking are fine or how powered cocaine gets you less jail time than crack.

    I’m for the decriminalization of the whole field not of parts of it that seem more cool and less extreme.

  46. sylvie wrote:

    comparing margaret cho to dat phan is downright blasphemy. yes, they both do the asian accent. but dat does it to get cheap laughs out of non-asians, while margaret does it to show that her mom’s experiences (i.e. dealing with homosexuality and even surviving a heart attack) are inextricably linked to her own. the accent is an homage, not a caricature. every comic imitates significant people in their life: greg giraldo imitates his hispanic dad, russell peters imitates his indian father, dave chappelle does the “white voice” of his buddies all the time. they’re all in context of THE JOKES, not just impersonating a nasally nail salon owner because american audiences think foreign accents are funny. there is a stark difference.

    side note: generalizations about korean parents disowning children who date outside the race, huh? that never gets old. if i could only count the number of times i’ve been asked, “so would your parents kill you if you brought home a (fill in non-korean race here) guy? because that happened to this korean friend of mine…”

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