Ask Racialicious: Am I Overreacting to Ignorant Assumptions? at Racialicious

Ask Racialicious: Am I Overreacting to Ignorant Assumptions?

by the Racialicious Team

Our first question comes from reader F:

Yesterday I went to a nail salon with my mother. I’m mixed-race, of mostly Indian descent, and while we there, quite a while after (and it was very quiet in there) an elderly Indian lady came in. There was one other (white) lady in there, and she witnessed everyone coming in at separate times, my mother and I talking, and having no contact at all with the older lady. At some point, I accidentally left my book on a chair and the nail salon person asked whose it was. Before anyone could say anything, the white woman piped up that it was ‘your daughter’s’ to the old Indian lady (meaning it was mine). Ok. This really annoyed me - because I knew that that woman saw brown people and just assumed, despite all evidence to the contrary, that we all belonged together or were related. If I and the older lady had been white, she never would’ve randomly assigned me to be her child, I think, because she would’ve been able to see more than colour and to identify more than that. She just grouped any brown people together automatically. I know it’s not a major thing, but to me it feels the same as when someone assumes I’m from India (I don’t assume all white people are from Norway, for example), or tells me I look like some Asian actress/friend/individual I look absolutely nothing like (I don’t remark to random white people that they remind me of Madonna), or can’t tell the difference between myself and other people they know who are also ‘brown’, despite huge differences in every other aspect of our being. So was this a kind of ignorant racism, or am I just overreacting? And even if it wasn’t, why is it still so deeply irritating, despite being so minor?

Andrea responds:

Dear F–

I don’t think you’re overacting to this at all. What the white woman did was flatten or erased all of your uniqueness and relationships–yours, your mom’s, and the elderly woman’s–solely based on what you all looked like to her. So, not only did she make assumptions about all three of you on race (”all brown-skinned folks must know/are related to each other), she made an assumption about all of you based on age, too. (”Elderly brown-skinned woman must have a grown daughter. I saw a grown brown-skinned woman walking in/getting nails done here. The other woman that came in with the grown woman couldn’t possibly be the mother. That grown woman, therefore, must be the elderly woman’s daughter.”) I suss that was the woman’s reasoning because she stated it when asked to whom the book belonged.

Now I didn’t say the woman’s logic made any sense or was based on any observable evidence, like your possibly referring to your mom as, well, “Mom” or “Mama” or “Mother” or whatever appellation you call her, in and overhearable conversation or in your and your mom not interacting with the elderly Indian woman. That white woman “knew,” and she was determined to tell everyone, by declaring that the book belonged to that elderly woman’s daughter–you, f–what she knew about you, your mom (who was erased in this situation, which also peeves me), and the other woman. The white woman’s “knowledge,” however well-meaning, was based on ignorance grounded in racism and ageism.

I’m also a bit worried that your friends are so dismissive of your feelings around this…

Fatemeh responds:

I feel for you, F. I had a friend ask me recently to teach her to Bollywood dance. wtf…?

Latoya responds:

F, I really like your question because it gets to the heart of the little day to day indignities of racism that function to wear people down. The reason you are second guessing yourself is because it is a very small thing - in the grand scheme of things, this woman’s small false assumptions don’t really have much of a bearing to your real life.

And yet…it bothers you doesn’t it?

All these little seemingly innocuous things become a lot more sinister when you cover a racist bias at the root, even when you know the person means no malice. So yes, what is happening to you is fucked up, even if it is on a small scale. However, advice in this vein is a little tricky, as it highly depends on the situation. As a person with a very prominent nose, I am often stopped in the street by strangers (generally white or black) who are pleased to tell me I look just like someone they know. Generally speaking, if the person stopping to address me is black, it is because I remind them of a family member. (One guy actually pulled out a picture.) If the person who addresses me is white, they normally compare me to some other black person with a large nose. (I’ve had two people look up pictures - online or in a yearbook - compare them, and then look crestfallen. “Well, not as much as I thought…”)

Every so often, I’ll ask directly “Oh, what about me reminds you of ____?” or “In what way do I look like (random celeb I do not look like - I got Queen Latifah once).”

And perhaps, if I was feeling like escalating a situation, and in your predicament at the nail salon I would have asked the women directly “Now, why did you assume that was my mother?” (Master the amused look of skepticism - one eyebrow raised, bemused looking smirk playing about the lips.)

But these interactions tend to pop up at random, when I’d rather be doing something else. So, most often, I (1) remind myself that I am not crazy because that was a racist assumption, (2) sigh and extract myself from the situation as possible and (3) go about my business.

It’s not the best solution, but it does tend to free up my time to fight on fronts where I feel like I can make an impact.

—-

So that’s our take. Readers, do you want to weigh in?

Comments

Rchoudh wrote:

I can relate to these little indignities well. Growing up and being of South Asian heritage people (black, white, other) always assumed I was of one particular background and religion from that region. They were ignorant of the fact that South Asia is highly diverse in terms of cultures and religions. Sometimes people would often mistake South Asia for being part of the Middle East and thus conflate those two regions as being one and the same.
I once remember when the movie “Mississippi Masala” came out how this one boy asked me if I was related to the Indian actress simply because we were of the same background and shared the same last name. The less a people know about another culture (and I believe Americans are generally the least knowledgeable about the Middle East and South Asia) the more likely they are to make ignorant and biased statements.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 8:53 am ¶
Will wrote:

I totally agree with the responses. I’m black, and I’ve had some white people tell me that I remind them of someone (and in a lot of cases it is some black celebrity who I absolutely don’t look like. I’ve been compared to Wesley Snipes, Cedric the entertainer, Dr Dre etc etc). Essentially, compared to people whose only similarity to me is that they are black. I’ve also faced the opposite, where people who I worked with didn’t recognize me outside work (blank stares or in one case handbag clutching).

I like calling this the ‘you don’t compute’ reaction. You are meant to fit into a certain category and if you don’t people can be quite stubborn about placing you in that category. I had a funny interaction where I was at a coffee shop and there was a little black girl being a bit rambunctious. She had come in with her mother (who was white) but at some point some other white woman got all huffy and told me to ‘watch my daughter’. Huh!

I think the same thing also happens when you are in an inter-racial relationship. My wife is white and there are times where you literally have to smack people over the head for them to realize that we are together.

Latoya Peterson is quite right about this being little incidents that cause cumulative damage (I remember hearing them termed as micro-aggressions). And in most cases, there is no good way to react appropriately without coming across as over-sensitive.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:02 am ¶
maisnon wrote:

Absolutely feel you, F. It’s a running inside joke with myself: if there is any other Indian-ish person in the room, someone will ask/assume we are related, EXCEPT for …. my mother. I am a foot taller than my mother, and that, apparently, does not compute. I used to try and reason with people (”You are black, and James is black, yet … you’re not related.d So, why would you assume I’m related to so-and-so?) Now, not so much.

Recently, a little girl in a restaurant told me that I looked like her mom. “I mean, she’s brown … you’re brown.” And I loved it. (Her mom, as it turns out, is Puerto Rican.) Then, she sang me a song in Vietnamese that she had learned at school.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:17 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Everyone assumes. And it’s not only white people who are guilty of this when it comes to ethnicity. I’ve done it myself and I have experienced it. I once assumed that a guy was a foreign student because of the way he was dressed (Asian dude, looked emo. All Emoesque Asian men I know are not “from here.) I have also had people assume that my family was very traditional (more often from other second generation Canadians than from multi-generational, white, Anglo-Canadians) and are surprised to hear that the family is not, and quite accepting of my non-Asian boyfriend. While I don’t think it’s good to assume, I don’t think one should feel that badly either, especially if this is someone you don’t know/someone you’ll probably never see again. Co-workers/social acquaintances, on the other hand, would be an entirely different story.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:19 am ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

This type of thing has perspective from many different angles. My wife gets rather upset because Spanish speaking people always want to come up to her and speak to her in Spanish.

I guess the assumption there is that everyone with olive coloured skin, dark hair and dark eyes must speak Spanish? I have witnessed Spanish speaking people get mad at her because she cannot speak Spanish. I think they assume that she is a Latina and just refuses to speak Spanish.

I told my wife you need to learn at least one phrase in Spanish so people will learn NOT to assume all people with brown skin and black hair speak Spanish and so they dont think she is being uppity by not speaking Spanish with them. I told her you need to learn to say, in Spanish “No I dont speak Spanish, do you speak Arabic?”

There are some people who are racially ambigous. My wife is like that. If she is in an area with a lot of Latinos, everyone thinks she is Latina. She walks into an Indian store, everyone thinks she is Indian, walks into Pakistani store, everyone thinks she is Pakistani. Most of them, no matter where they are from, give this look that says “what are you doing with a white guy”?

This is a human fault, it is just easier to group peoples together than to take the time to realise that everyone is different and to care enough to find out.

So yeah, the person had every right to get mad. Making assumptions like this is just plain rude.

@Will,

I am white, wife is Arab. We have that thing as well. People just cannot compute that we are together. I am the white guy, tall blond hair and blue eyes with tattoos, she is the olive skinned lady with black hair and black eyes. With us it is a racial issue and a religious issue. Muslim women are not supposed to marry non Muslim men, and the assumption (false in my case) is that I am a Christian and my wife is just messing around ruining her family name.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:22 am ¶
j wrote:

I like Latoya’s advice to master the look of amused skepticism. That’s how I’ve generally dealt with these kinds of situations. For years, when I had very long locks, so many well-meaning white folks would comment on my resemblance to Whoopi Goldberg. Now that I have a short straightish do, it’s Halle Berry!!! Between Whoopi Goldberg and Halle Berry it doesn’t take much to figure out that many of these well-meaning folks also have a very limited range of black public figures and celebrities that they can recognize and make reference to.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:38 am ¶
PerceptiveReality wrote:

Hey there. I can relate to this as well.

First I wouldnt say that you are overreacting bc we as people have the right to feel whatever it is we want. So, the annoyed reaction that you got must be the correct one for you. Personally (nowadays being a little older and smarter) I like to laugh at the true ignorance of people. And I have a rule that hurts and helps me out but I stick to it - Let people believe what ever it is they want to. By doing this you really get to know a person and how one sided their judgements and thoughts are.

But let me tell you about a situation that happened to back when I was in school. I am mixed (Mom white dad black) and I am fairly light skinned. It was a parents night at my school. I was in 8th or ninth grade and my mother had decided to go. (it would take me too long to try and explain why she reacted the way she did and her thoughts about race for herself and me growing up, but I will try if asked) Anyway my mother was in one of my classes that night and this white spanish teacher was handing out papers to all the parents - and all of the kids name were on the desk so the parents would know where we sat and where they were to sit. When she gets to my mother (this is what my mom told me happened I was not there to see it), she (the teacher) stops hesitates, pulls the paper back and says “well you cant be His mom because you are (pauses) and he is (pauses)… OOhhh”. When my mom got home she was in tears and I was HEATED, so in doing the WRONG thing I went in the next day and had some real serious nad threatening words for the teacher. Looking back I could have and should have handled it differently but at that time it was what I felt to be the correct reaction. But that situation accompanied by another around the same time really got me looking at race and people in an entirely different light. Funny sometimes how life lessons choose to present themselves to us.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:42 am ¶
PerceptiveReality wrote:

@ Rchoudh

I have a question for you, bc a situation came up over this past weekend.

If a person does not know where you are from proper or correct or preffered way to (i want to say clasify but that sounds bad and is not really what I mean) but I guess the way to mention where you are from? Meaning like if I say someone is (and not knowing) Asian or is “of the Orient”. or something like that without saying specifically Chinese or Korean or Japanese, bc I have a few friends that really get upset when people say they are Chinese and they are not. I am asking bc I truly dont know and am curious to know what you think? Some people may think that me just asking this is offensive, but they will get over it. Its always better to look Dumb asking the question, than to look dumb not knowing or assuming the answer.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:54 am ¶
RJG wrote:

Situations like this and the reactions to them make a pretty clear cut difference between being white and being everyone else.

When I’m mistaken for another ethnicity/religion (I live in a very Hasidic are of Brooklyn, so when I’m in more professional looking dark fabric clothes I somehow turn Jewish to a bunch of people), it’s more amusing than distressing/frustrating.

I just can’t get how it’s so annoying and “This just ruined my day”ing being mistaken as someone’s relative is, or people making assumptions about who I am, and so on.

That said my wife (who also sometimes looks Jewish) generally has [non-Jewish] people asking her if she knows some random Jewish person they know or read of in the news or whatever, as if she’d know the person through some secret Jewish network.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:55 am ¶
Glossolalia Black wrote:

Something similar happened to me at the laundromat: a man assumed that the Latino ten year old sitting on the bench next to my folding table was my son. (I am what is commonly known as “high yellow”, and have been mistaken for Latino before.)

The little boy had been playing with a rolling cart and the man addressed me, hand on the cart: “Is it okay if I use this?”

I told him, “He’s not my son, you might want to ask him.”

He sort of walked off without the cart and found another one, not even looking at the little boy. The boy and I looked at each other and shrugged at exactly the same time, then laughed.

There was probably more than just the assumption of race there, including assumed maternal dynamics.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:57 am ¶
Estheroette wrote:

I like the term micro-aggressions, those little annoyances that build up to be a very big problem over time.

I haven’t been mistaken for another ethnicity in my time, well, except by a girl who was amazed that I didn’t know what Jollof was until I told her I wasn’t West African just plain’ ol’ american black!) I have had instances where I was watching my little sisters or brothers (I am 9 years older than the oldest one) and people assumed I was the mother. Now, I can see if I was 20 or so with an infant in my arms, but at the time I was no more than 15 with a 2 year old toddler. It really was nothing more than people seeing another black girl with a kid and assuming I was fast and probably on food stamps.

I will say I got these assumptions from whites and blacks, from doctors as well who you would think were trained to at least ask first before wondering “When did you get started?”

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:29 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@Estheroette -

I have had instances where I was watching my little sisters or brothers (I am 9 years older than the oldest one) and people assumed I was the mother. Now, I can see if I was 20 or so with an infant in my arms, but at the time I was no more than 15 with a 2 year old toddler. It really was nothing more than people seeing another black girl with a kid and assuming I was fast and probably on food stamps.

OMG, cosign.

People used to think my sister was my baby all the time. People tried to give me toys for my baby. We got free food at fast food spots once because “my baby was so cute.”

Now, my sis was a preemie and a little on the small side, and I hit my current height when I was about 14, but fuck yo.

My sister and I are only 6 years apart.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:33 am ¶
Lola wrote:

One day a co-worker assumed I liked RnB music because I was black. And she was shocked that I didn’t give a F about “50 cent”!! WTF??

Or people assume my friend wears a WIG because she has long and thick kinky hair. So when she wears an Afro, that’s a HUUUUUGE ‘fro. Now we laugh at this all the time!

Or people who ask me WHY is it that my siblings and I we don’t have the same skin tone? And assume we have different fathers, when we all have the same parents which means SAME father. I’m like WTF? I don’t know if people assume this just because of the skin tones or if they think because my mother is black the only possibility is that she HAS to have different “baby daddies”?? That’s the kind of assumptions that really offend me.

Man it’s so many stories, if I was paid everytime someone said something stupid I’d be a millionaire.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:44 am ¶
Compa wrote:

To a certain extent I think this is largely human nature, and you only move away from it once you are exposed to a lot of people from the ethnicity in question.

I am white, and when on a business trip with my white boss in Swaziland, people would always assume she was my mother. I very quickly learned the word “umphatsi” so I could explain quickly & in a friendly way who she was. In fact at the Joburg airport the attendant gave my passport to my boss when she was returning it, assuming she was my mother. I sort of stood there with my mouth open till I realized what the dynamic was…

So it happens to folks of all ethinicities, which is not to say, of course, that when it happens to brown/black/tan folks in America that there is not racism going on as well.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:48 am ¶
TL wrote:

It’s sorta when people ask me about my origins (I’m Chinese), particularly by whites. They ask me where I’m from, and I always reply, “Brooklyn, New York.” It annoys me sometimes but doesn’t surpise me at all when they follow up with, “No, I mean, where are you REALLY from?” At this point, I have to explain that I was born and raised in Brooklyn all my life, and that no, I’ve never been to China and I don’t have an accent in spite of this (I guess they were either expecting me to have a heavy Asian accent or a fuggheddaboudit-type Brooklynese accent). I reserve my eye rolls for when people then compliment me for speaking English so well. Gee, thanks.

I had similarly weird reactions when I was in Okinawa for a few years. Walking into restaurants and bars with (mostly white) friends, the locals assumed I was the lone Japanese in the group and would begin speaking to me in Japanese. For the first few weeks, I could only shake my head sorry, I don’t understand. At least I took some basic Japanese classes and could exchange a few phrases to indicate what I wanted and that I wasn’t Japanese. Though these experiences were generally far more amusing than the previous ones I mentioned. The Okinawans were always very polite and friendly, so it was hard to fault them.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:52 am ¶
CVT wrote:

Perceptive Reality -
Please don’t refer to “the Orient” when talking about Asian people. Too many connotations of imperialism and general Orientalism. Just a heads-up. However - asking is always better. ALWAYS. I don’t know how many people have pissed me off by tip-toeing around my identity (I’m mixed Chinese/white) instead of just asking. I know people are curious. I know they don’t know. We all know what’s going on. So just ending the charade and asking from a place of honest curiosity is huge. That’s how conversations begin - so, if you’re curious, ask. If not, just leave it and move on. But don’t assume or tip-toe.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:54 am ¶
CVT wrote:

I was at a surprise birthday party for my uncle a year or two ago. When I walked in, everybody just stared at me, nobody greeted me, and I just kind of found a seat in the back corner to wait by myself (I was the only non-white person there). When my uncle finally walked in and people saw that I was his freaking nephew, suddenly they were all friendly . . . They still probably never considered that I wasn’t adopted, though.

Another time, I was at an all-staff meeting for the organization I’ve worked at for the last three years. The other Asian guy on staff (who had also been there three years) made some sort of announcement and sat down. Two minutes later, the older white lady next to me (who had worked with both of us the last three years) asked me what I had said. She never realized that it wasn’t me (and I’m mixed and ambiguous-looking, while the other dude is full-blood Korean).

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:58 am ¶
F wrote:

Hi all,

Wow, I knew that Racialicious was the best place to ask about this! After it happened, I felt bad for feeling annoyed, and decided to try and get some perspective on it. My family thought it was a case of racism, but the friends I asked (all white, I must admit), thought I was overreacting. This depressed me because I thought perhaps, as RJG wrote above, it was one of those things that the ‘other side’ would just never ‘get’. Many of them have not experienced it, so why should they understand it or think it matters?

Reading all these excellent responses, I think it is a mixture of the woman’s ignorance & racism and my overreaction. Yes, she said it because she probably can’t compute, as many of you said, individuality amongst people of colour, but at the same time this is one of those things that are more amusing than a cause for irritation and anger. I think that I got frustrated because, like Latoya said, it acted as a kind of straw that broke the camel’s back, all my life I’ve smiled off little ‘misunderstandings’ like this, and that does build up a level of irritation over time - worse, perhaps, because it did what it does every time, it shook me out of myself and reminded me, in a very small way, that some people see me as a brown face primarily and perhaps then go onto see everything else about me through that lens. It reminds me of what a friend of mine said to me once, that because he is gay, everything he does is gay, and it’s the most frustrating thing to be stuck in that category. I guess I’d like to pretend that this isn’t the case, and while not everyone narrowly categorises people, enough do that it is something that I should perhaps be conscious of without assuming racism always exists to some extent, in every instance, as a rule (I know people like this, and it can be a very stressful and unhappy experiences). I think it’s also important, for me personally, to remember as many of you said that this is not just something that ‘white’ people do, every group has its prejudices and is sometimes unable to attribute all the individuality and humanity it sees amongst itself to others. I’d like to see this as a general, if slight, human failing rather than an ‘us’ (POC) v ‘them’ state of affairs as I’m sometimes prone to do, I think this helps in certain situations in terms of being amused rather than angry.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:05 am ¶
F wrote:

& that should have been stressful and unhappy existences, not experiences!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:07 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:

Oh! I forgot to mention another angle to my advice: the very sexist assumption that all women have (or want) children. The woman in the nail salon made a leap of logic in assuming the elderly woman even have or had offspring and she deepened the mistake in assuming you, f, were her child.

@ Fatemeh–your friend asked you…to teach…her…Bollywood dancing? Whaaa–

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:12 am ¶
WestEndGirl wrote:

Frankly, I think this issue (people making such assumptions) is a truly “human” condition and getting upset by it, just doesn’t help or change things, just that your personal stress levels go through the roof!

I’m mixed Jewish living in London and I look like *everybodys* cousin, friend, relative, whatever!
I have been mistaken for:
Greek Cypriot and Greek generally
Turkish Cypriot and Turkish generally
Middle Eastern
North African
Italian
Spanish
Kurdish
South American (in general)
Indian
Mixed race
etc
etc
etc…

and by people from *every* possible type of background.

So all this tells me is that *people* are generally lazy, regardless of their backgrounds and have a fondness for grouping people together so that they can place them in context. In fact, the most common culprits I would say in my personal assumption game are actually POC, particular Southern Mediterranean people and Middle Easterners.

If I got annoyed by that or the age old question of: “No, but where do you *really* come from?” When asked and I reply I’m British, then I would be a permanent state of irritation. So I just don’t bother.

Life is too short!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:14 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

I’m surprised that I’m one of two people here who has mentioned non-white people mistaking other non-white people for being one thing or another. Do people really think this can’t happen?

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:20 am ¶
j wrote:

@ Estheroette + Latoya:

As a black teenaged woman toting around my infant nephew I often received stares and looks of disapproval from people on the street who assumed he was my son. It really irked me at the time that almost *no one* assumed that he was my little brother or my baby nephew. A few times, some people even had the audacity to make snide comments out loud, and on several occasions I was given phone numbers to local organizations for teen moms. Granted it’s great that there are resources for teen moms and some folks were trying to ‘help’ me in that respect, I couldn’t get past the fact of knowing that if I were white, that assumption that he was my son probably would not have been made.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:22 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:

>I’m surprised that I’m one of two people here who has mentioned non-white people mistaking other non-white people for being one thing or another. Do people really think this can’t happen?

Cynthia - of course it happens. But I think the factor here is that for many minority people, they are often surrounded by majority-white people, and the more people you’re around, the more likely someone will ask a rude question or make a rude assumption. Therefore, the people who make that rude question/assumption are more likely to be white. It’s just numbers.

If you’re only around a few minority people at a time, the likelyhood of someone who is a minority doing the same is less. Not to mention that in many areas of the US, there is not the diversity of, say, NYC - there may be ony 1 minority/majority group represented in the workplace, restaurant, neighborhood, etc. at one time.

But there is also the entitlement complex too, and that MAY adversely skew the numbers so that the people more likely to openly make assumptions are those of the majority. They may feel entitled to know, esp. when meeting someone of an ethnic group they know little about.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:35 am ¶
Sulyp wrote:

On the flip side,

I do know of several people who feign disgust, but inside are absolutely delighted that someone mistook them for “mixed” or “other”.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been on predominantly Asian boards, and people are literally bragging with glee how big their eyelid fold is (or the “sacred line”, she called it… no joke) and how because of that, someone thought they were Eurasian. Or a how Latina another board does everything she can to emphasize or create European features (blue contact lenses, bleached hair) and then acts “shocked” when someone mistook her for white. Or on black hair boards where a few women might start threads about how someone mistook them for Indian, or Hispanic because of the hair texture they’re wearing, and the responses, oddly enough, are congratulatory. :s

Sometimes, there are people who go out of there way to emphasize features that would likely confuse the casual observer into thinking they are mixed or of another ethnicity entirely.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:35 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

J.,

I’m not sure if anything would change if you were white. I participate on petite blogs/message board a lot and I’ve heard plenty of women on those sites who are assumed to be teen moms, regardless of race. And these women are often in their late 20s/early 30s.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:36 am ¶
bas bleu wrote:

I have several stories of people in stores and restaurants assuming that I am there with another black person who is standing in the same 5-foot radius. I don’t feel angry or hurt about it, but it’s a clear reminder that race helps people ‘make sense’ of the world around them.

On one occasion, I asked the (white) person right back if a white woman standing near him was with him. She was, but he seemed confused by my question. HA!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:52 am ¶
Miss Tiff wrote:

HeHeHe, LOVE it! I’ve had experiences similar to the nail shop scenario. For some strange reason whenever me and my brother go out together non-black people seem to think we’re a couple. Never mind that we share a very strong resemblance, even more so than with my elder sister (Sis looks like Dad, me and Bro look like Mom), they just seem to assume that black woman + black man = couple! I was visiting my brother in Los Angeles and we decided to check out a Picasso exhibit at LACMA. Big Bro had never seen a Picasso up close so we were both pretty giddy, that is to say excited looks and heads together, with lots of laughter! As we entered the exhibition this Latina kept going on and on about how pretty I was (Nice but kind of weird) and how lucky my “Husband” was to have such a dish on his arm! Now ignoring the hidden sexism in this encounter (Why wouldn’t I be the lucky one for having my handsome brother on MY arm or just both of us lucky to have each other?) why would she naturally assume we were a couple? We weren’t kissing, holding hands are touching in any sexual way? I’m actually more openly affectionate with my brother than he is with me but still…WHY? And it happens a lot, in fact so much so that I joked to my brother that we should just start saying we are a couple so we won’t have to suffer through all the shocked, slack- jawed looks and uncomfortable silences!

Also, I’ve noticed that white people and even some native Spanish speakers are REALLY shocked…Shocked I tell you!..that I speak Spanish. I’ve been thinking about what the reasoning could be but I’m at a loss. I think both white and “white skinned” Spanish speakers know there are dark skinned people who also speak Spanish but then maybe it’s because they just assume I’m American, black and incapable of speaking any other languages? Or is it because I’m American, black and a Texan (Read: Bigoted)? And once they find out that no I’m not Domincana or Boriqua or [Insert Caribbean or Latin America country with large percentage of African descendents] they then demand to know HOW I could possibly have learned the language? Did my Latino esposo o novio teach me? Am I SURE I’m not Latina (Uh… Mama, Daddy you wanna field this one?)? No it’s called Universidad me gente!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 11:58 am ¶
Alexandra wrote:

The two most memorable for me was when a white friend asked me did I ever weave in my hair and did I listen to rap. The second time was when someone made me blush and my friend exclaimed I didn’t know black people could blush?!. But to F I agree its little things like that just get to you and I don’t think you are being over-sensitive.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:10 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:

To salespersons when they deign to acknowledge me: “No, I’m not with that random black person.”

I had a teacher, Allen Trogden, in high school tell me that sitting next to my friend was bringing my grade down and that I should switch seats as she was a negative influence. He had it backwards. She had the good grade. There were only 2 blacks in his class. We have different complexions and shapes. I used to frequently stay after for help and he didn’t even know who I was.

F~sometimes it’s destructive, like knowing how Mr. Trogden (I passed AP Calc sonofabitch) really felt in Adv. Trig.

Sometimes it’s so damn ridiculous and lazy that you have to laugh:

I watched my gym teacher call my friend Chow (short, tan w/ freckles), Woo (tall, light-skinned) w/o batting an eyelash for the WHOLE year. My conlaw professor yelled at Chin as if she were Joo (longer hair, wore glasses), who was absent. Mind you, Chin was also constantly called Chang (the “other” one) in her tiny high school. A guy sat down next to Chin in class and started a convo like he knew her. He turned red and moved after awhile. Apparently he thought she was Kang.

J~ I apparently look like Whoopi Goldberg too…and I have a relaxer. I also look like Mary J. Blige.

WEG~ you are killing me softly!! They all want to claim you! Have you considered intelligence/espionage? Get a few passports, work on the accent…have a blast!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:15 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

L, the woman was unobservant, ignorant, racially unenlightened, and “helpful” to the pushy point, but not necessarily hostile specifically to Indians, given your description.

White people mistake identities of other white people all the time. For some reason, I look like lots of other people’s relatives.

I think that the “they all look alike” bit arises partly because the white person doesn’t see and note particular individuals enough to get a “library” of variations on “racial features” and other variations. I think that in-person encounters are much better than video/still photo viewings in impressing variability within “races” on people who were raised in a homogenous environment.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:33 pm ¶
Wordsmith wrote:

If I and the older lady had been white, she never would’ve randomly assigned me to be her child, I think, because she would’ve been able to see more than colour and to identify more than that.

If I may — don’t be too sure, now. Some folks don’t ever pay attention. I noticed within your own citing that you assume things as well about the ‘thinking’ of that ‘white lady’ who apparently assumed things her own self.

Your question, though: “So was this a kind of ignorant racism, or am I just overreacting? And even if it wasn’t, why is it still so deeply irritating, despite being so minor?”

Ignorant racism - what are you meaning by ‘ignorant’….. nonthinking? irrational? stupid? I think racism is usually pretty damned obvious to the racist. I think they (’the racist’ - protagonist[?]) are usually quite aware of their racism as well as being aware of their reasoning behind their racism.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:40 pm ¶
RJG wrote:

@F’s “This depressed me because I thought perhaps, as RJG wrote above, it was one of those things that the ‘other side’ would just never ‘get’. Many of them have not experienced it, so why should they understand it or think it matters?”

I think the last part of that is really important.

I don’t get it in the “I just can’t imagine having that same kind of frustration myself” sense, but that doesn’t mean I/others can’t/shouldn’t get it in the “I can see why you would react that way” sense. Hell, if I can get why people like sports/tv show X/blah so damn much even though I care less, why not this too?

There’s always that episode of South Park with Stan trying to understand why Token found the N-word offensive.

Stan: “I get it now! I don’t get it!”
Token: “Now you got it.”

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:51 pm ¶
Fatemeh wrote:

@ TL: YEAH! I HATE the “where are you from? NO, where are you REALLY from?” questions? Just come out and say it, jackass! lol

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:54 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:

Anyone get the freaks who want to ARGUE with you about your ethnicity? If you’re Black with Euro or Asian features and tell people you are Black you’ll get asked “And what else? Because you can’t be ‘just’ Black. You have to be mixed with something!” If you say you’re Biracial people will tell you “No you’re not, you’re Black.” And then you get the people who want to put things in your family tree that simply aren’t there and will suggest that maybe your dad (or grandfather) really isn’t who you think it is. *sigh*

You just can’t win, which is why I simply say “American” now or give the questioner a blank stare. It’s a rude question to ask a stranger anyway, and if you can’t tell from looking at someone, then maybe you don’t need to know!

What I really can’t stand are assholes who will hear your child call you Mommy and STILL ask the “are you the nanny/babysitter/friend” question. Those people aren’t asking innocently; it’s coming from a more malicious place and it’s intended to make you feel bad.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 12:57 pm ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

@Kaonashi,

My wife gets that. When she doesnt speak Spanish they actually get mad at her. Why should she be able to speak Spanish when she is not a Latina?

The assumption on their part is that she thinks so is too good to speak Spanish, not that she just might not be a Latina.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:10 pm ¶
different Ali wrote:

I’ve never really gotten anything like that as far as race is concerned (I’m white) but you’d be amazed at how many people, usually white themselves, think that all blonde people are related.

The one that’s been popping up more and more recently with me is people assuming I’m lesbian. I don’t flirt with women or talk about sex or dating, and I’m just as likely to hang out with men as women (and with the men there’s usually a lot less personal space between us) but I’ve had people argue with me that I’m just in the closet or something. One guy that I even went on a date on was convinced I was at least bi.
Just. Strange.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:21 pm ¶
Ivy wrote:

@ J

I feel you on that one! I was 18 when my nephew was born. It was annoying when I took him for walks alone, because people made assumptions. I even joked that it would be nice to have a shirt that said “Aunt Ivy”.

Now he’s 5 and tall for his age, so its no longer an issue.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:21 pm ¶
Rchoudh wrote:

@ PerceptiveReality

Hi. To answer your question I personally don’t mind if people ask me straight up if I’m from X place. I would have preferred a more general question from people like “where’s your family originally from?” but knowing that general questions like these don’t come up too often I don’t mind people asking if I’m Indian/Pakistani or not.
What irritates me the most is when people assume they know where I’m from and start asking me questions about a culture I am unfamiliar with. An example would be when someone asks me why Hindu women wear bindi dots without first asking me if I’m
A) Indian and B) Hindu. When I was growing up it was worse in that people wouldn’t understand that not all South Asians are alike in terms of culture; they would even casually dismiss these differences as not being worth knowing about!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:25 pm ¶
Joseph wrote:

“Micro-Agressions”! That is perfect. Have to remember that. The awful trap of this dynamic is that if you react at all, no matter how reasonably you are “overreacting” or being “oversensitive.” So the onus is always on the person who is the center of these kinds of assumptions to “rise above” them. For me, that is the lasting damage inflicted by this sort of thoughtlessness.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:43 pm ¶
cacy wrote:

I am guilty of assuming lots of things in regards to race but I am not sure if this qualifies as racism. I’ve always thought that racism was a structure where one dominant race held power over another race. How could/can this one woman be racist in her assumption? I am an East Indian man with an Afro-Latino background who looks black. Many people, black and white and Asian, associate the way I look with the rapper 50 Cent. I find it amusing, not racist.

The other day I was on a train heading into NYC with my friend when we noticed a cool looking and handsome Asian man with lots of tattoos. I had no idea who he was or where he came from but looking at his tats, I thot: Japanese! So what do I do? I start talking to him in Japanese. He looked at me retreated in his seat and replied in ENGLISH Ia m not Japanese, I am Chinese!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:49 pm ¶
frgt wrote:

I think you overreacted, I don’t look like my mom in anyway at ALL. She’s pretty light skinned and I am dark. People never think she’s my mom at all, even other black people! Is it annoying? Yes. Worth losing any sleep over? Nope.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 3:36 pm ¶
khia213 wrote:

My least favorite micro-agression involves my hair. It’s in long braids that are loose at the ends. I can’t tell you how many times white people will just reach out and touch my hair without asking. Older white women are the worst. I had one decide to pet me, like a dog, in a store one day! I want to yell at them but they’re old and I try to accept that they don’t know any better. It happened yesterday at a funeral. It burns me up everytime and I just don’t have a good response for it.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 3:38 pm ¶
Lisa J wrote:

Can I just mention, that I know where a lot of you are coming from on being mistaken for your little nephew/niece, sister/brother’s literal baby mama, I can tell you that I know white folks who’ve had the same thing happen. I had a white friend in high school, who was occasionaly mistaken for her baby half- brother’s mother when she baby-sat for him (and got nasty looks from people). And my close friend and college roommate, who is also white and 4 or 5 years older than her younger brother, mentioned people mistaking her for his Mom when she was a teenager and she had (still has) a baby face. People can be weird and random. That isn’t to say that people didn’t assume these things in your cases b/c of racism though. That is what is so hard sometimes though about being a POC in America, you always wonder, “did they do that/say that b/c I’m black/ Asian/ Hispanic/Middle Eastern or other POC or was it b/c that person is just ignorant/stupid/clueless.” It can drive you crazy sometimes!

It is also interesting that a few folks mentioned people not wanting to acknowledge that their other race significant other was with them, because lately quite a few people have assumed that my white male friend who I hang out with often is my date/boyfriend/husband for no reason other than we are together. I’ve had the same thing with a black male friend of mine and used to think people assumed that only b/c we were both black, but now given my experiences with my other friend, maybe people take my high comfort level with them both for a romantic relationship or just seeing a guy and a girl together. Then again, at one wedding I attended as the sole black woman, I had several people come up to tell me that they loved my husband’s speach b/c the best man (who had been teleconferenced in from abroad b/c he couldn’t make it last minute) gave a great wedding toast and he happened to be black. His white wife who traveled to the wedding alone and who I knew and shared this story with-thinking she might find it funny- was not amused. Probably b/c they had people assume they weren’t together all the time. Who knows why people think what they think. Like I said, it can make you crazy and sometimes I feel like the Martin Lawrence character in “Boomerang” who said everything was “racial” b/c I often don’t know if I’m right or wrong and don’t feel better either way.

Hang in there F and others who have these annoying encounters all the time.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:15 pm ¶
Lisa J wrote:

I meant to say speech not speach, I’m having a lot of Dan Quayle spelling errors lately. And I also meant to put a but after the word “baby Mama” in the first sentence.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:17 pm ¶
ole wrote:

You know what’s even MORE disturbing than having strangers assume that your brother is your husband (rather than the white guy next to you with a wedding band and his arm around your waist)? Having strangers assume that your FATHER is your husband/sugar daddy. OMG! It’s creepy!!!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:23 pm ¶
cacy wrote:

Re: cacy wrote:

I am guilty of assuming lots of things in regards to race but I am not sure if this qualifies as racism. I’ve always thought that racism was a structure where one dominant race held power over another race. How could/can this one woman be racist in her assumption? I am an East Indian man with an Afro-Latino background who looks black. Many people, black and white and Asian, associate the way I look with the rapper 50 Cent. I find it amusing, not racist.

The other day I was on a train heading into NYC with my friend when we noticed a cool looking and handsome Asian man with lots of tattoos. I had no idea who he was or where he came from but looking at his tats, I thot: Japanese! So what do I do? I start talking to him in Japanese. He looked at me retreated in his seat and replied in ENGLISH I am not Japanese, I am Chinese!

_
Sorry about the typos. I had to get back to work.

I don’t think the man even identified himself as Chinese honestly…

Anyway, I say this to illustrate and wonder if I was being an ass or racist when I assumed that dude was Japanese. Why did I think he was Japanese? Cuz he had tats that looked like yakuza tats. Which was dumb because I am not a scholar of yakuza tats; I only saw a bunch of movies and made some assumptions. Does my assumptions about a particular culture represent my race as a whole and a particular power scheme held by my race (s) ? If it does then you’re saying that every black/east indian/ latino person thinks like I do.

Am I stretching? Am I missing something? Please inform. Thanks!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:37 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

This kind of thing happens to me all the time. I can relate to SO many of the comments. I am black/white biracial. I have often had shop clerks or other random people assume that I am with other brown people in the room. Of course, people assume that I work in stores too, but that’s a whole other phenomenon.

My (white) mother often had the experience of people not believing that her kids were hers.

I also frequently have people come up to me in the street speaking Spanish; this just happened 2 days ago, and the guy who did it blathered on and on while I shook my head in confusion, said “I don’t understand,” and pantomimed directions to the place he seemed to be looking for. After all of that, he looks at me and says “no hablos espanol?” (sp?) Uhhh, NO. Isn’t that clear?

And to the women who made the remarks about younger siblings/relatives being mistaken for your kids, I can so relate! As a teenager, I often saw people looking at me sideways when I held my baby niece (she was born when I was 15), and I always could tell that they were judging me from that one glance, based on a stereotype, and they got it all wrong.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:59 pm ¶
Numa wrote:

Comments like that may not be malicious in nature but hearing them just makes you feel so isolated. They remind you that so many people still think of you as the ‘other’.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 5:22 pm ¶
Zanzibar wrote:

When I was in Ghana, visiting my stepsister where she was stationed in Peace Corps, a Ghanaian volunteer said my sister and I looked just alike. We laughed, because we don’t–we have no blood in common, different coloring, different features. He shrugged and said that all white people look alike to him.

He went on to talk about what features he used to differentiate between black people. At the time, it seemed like a form of reading that would be hard to practice in the US–because it required looking at people’s faces, especially around the eyes, in ways that might seem intrusive.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 5:43 pm ¶
jb wrote:

This is ridiculous, one makes assumption on the available information. Oversensitivity and generation bias is clearly evident. Thank her for her concern, what would be worse not reporting the oversight?

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 6:33 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:

I am mistaken for being of another nationality by other African-descended people. In Durban, everyone was coming up to me and speaking, and I could only say “Sawubona.” Zulu men trying to flirt, had to have another man help me with that one…Xhosa women asking for assistance at a grocery store.

TBH, it felt nice. I felt there was a place on the earth where I wasn’t the other. The other shoe dropped when people from the same groups would ignore me in checkout lines, or wait on me last at a restaurant. Then I had to open my mouth and show I was American, to receive even halfway decent service. Sad.

When I was more fluent in Spanish (it’s gotten away from me) I would be mistaken for Costa Rican or Dominican. I pretended to be Panamanian one evening at a club in the ATL, that was at the beginning of the huge wave of eroticizing Brown Latinas down there. It was amusing for a hot minute, but once I knew what that group of men thought about “hot-blooded senoritas,” I felt icky.

Cynthia: my uncle once asked my friend Laura where she was from. She replied “San Francisco.” He said, “No, before that … Hong Kong? Taiwan?” That girl was born and raised in Cali, just like me. I as mortified, she laughed it off, and said “we all have them.”

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 6:48 pm ¶
b+c wrote:

I agree…’micro-agressions’ is a great term. As I get older, I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by assumptions about race.

Growing up, my parents didn’t discuss race at all. Not ours or anyone elses. Luckily for me, it left me with no assumptions about anyone, but it also left me really shocked and unprepared for the upcoming days when people came with, uh… unwelcome commentary.

Once, on a date (with an Italian guy) I was asked “What type of music do you like, you know, other than R&B?”
I’ve also had almost everyone I know tell me that my sister and I MUST have different fathers. We look exactly alike, btw, apart from skintone (I’m darker complected and she is, for lack of a better descriptor, orange).
When I was 14 people thought my little sister was my child (we’re 6 years apart).
Also, most are SHOCKED to learn that my name is Bettie. They can’t get over it. Everyday at Starbucks for years “Huh? Bettie!” followed by a long stare waiting me to say ‘just kidding!’
And these really, are just the tip of the iceberg.

My problem is that in my teens (I’m 25 now) I was so into answering the questions and helping people understand that assumptions like those are silly. But now, I’m at a stage where I feel like the educational portion of this program is over. I just want to be.

And not being able to be an individual (in certain situations) is really the worst part.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 6:48 pm ¶
Lainad wrote:

Interesting topic. There are sooo many stories from being a transracial adoptee that I could tell, but that would be a whole post in itself……

Here is one story that burned my ass. Last summer I went to my brother and sister- in-law’s (both white, I’m black) birthday party at their house. Despite my brother having two black sisters (my older sister is biracial) he doesn’t associate with people of color. Why? I don’t know. So I’m hanging out in his backyard playing with my nephews and one of my brother’s friends walks up to me and says - point blank - “what are you doing here?” like I was casing the house to rob. I, despite being very annoyed I replied that I was C____’s sister. He then just stared at me and I stared back. Figuring that I wasn’t going to explain myself, he just smiled and walked away. I later saw him with his wife and they were both looking at me with this disapproving look. I swore to myself that I would never attend one of my brother’s social events again. Who needs the bullshit? (I never bothered to repeat this incident to any of my family members as when I did so in the past, they either thought it was funny or I was being too sensitive. See, if it hasn’t happened to you, you don’t really know).

Despite my background, I have never gotten used to the stares, the rude remarks and while i was raised better, it is pretty damn obvious that many people feel that they can blurt out the first thing that comes out of their mouths and do not think twice about how it sounds. I am not perfect, and I don’t think - despite my parents being relatively cool people - I have ever gotten ‘used’ to people thinking that when I am hanging out with my 70 year-old father, that I am either a prostitute or his ‘chippy.’ I am very angry because despite being proud of my (well, lack of) heritage, I have worked to godamned hard to be an individual and yet it is so easily dismissed. Am I doing something wrong?

One of the commenters said it best: When people make these stupid observations, it makes you (me) feel like you - or let’s put it this way - validates the feeling you have being a black / brown / asian person in this NA world that you are just a face, an ‘other’ - you are not seen as an indivdual. No one is looking at any specifics that make a person an individual, they see the skin colour first and whatever negative connotations are going through their ignorant minds, which greatly worries me, as I am slowly getting into a profession that is traditionally white and male-dominated and where I need people to see my passion and talents for my chosed profession more than the fact that I am a (proud) black Canadian with a vagina.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 7:12 pm ¶
AC wrote:

Several studies have been done that establish that cross-racial indentifications are notoriously unreliable because people from different races have trouble identifying the differences in facial features of people of a different race than their own. This difficulty would obviously apply to white people as well as POCs.

In your case F, as I read it, it went beyond that because this woman did not just think in her head or assume the three brown women were all together or looked like they were related, she also IGNORED the obvious cues of different arrival times and the lack of interaction between your party and the elderly woman. Then she took it a step farther by stepping in and proffering that you were all together, again as I read it, in response to a question that had been posed to the air and not neccessarily directly to her. I can see why you’d be offended.

Always remember you are entitled to your feelings, and they are self-validating. That’s not to say you have to address every micro-agression (love that term), usually we get to pick our battles. I’d consider it a trial run. Next time this happens you will know it for what it is when you experience it and perhaps you will feel less restrained and able to address it in the moment if you so choose.

I once was confused with a co-worker at work to my detriment. I had been called to the office of my supervisor’s boss to “mediate” a workplace disagreement with another employee and was admonished by the boss that she had spoken to me before about my “attitude” problem. Only she hadn’t. I was so non-plussed and blown away that I wasn’t able to respond immediately or thereafter, it wasn’t for another week before I even realized, through sharing my story, that she had actually confused me with a co-worker who was a different height, weight, skin tone, drastically different hair length, style of dress (she wore designer wear, I did not) and who didn’t wear glasses like I did. My supervisor knew that her boss had confused us but didn’t speak up and forevermore I was the girl with an “attitude problem” and I never got past that at that job.

My point, and I did have one, was that as we move through life and survive these micro-aggressions, and share our experiences with others we gain the wisdom to begin to shape our future responses to them. Which in some circumstances can be important, because sometimes the battle is bought to you and you have to address it or deal with the consequence of not calling someone on his/her ish. For my part, just TRY and confuse me with any of my other black co-workers now - lol!

As to some of the other commentators who have been mistaken for latina/o - me too. I have been mistaken several times for Puerto Rican - I think that because latinas run such a color gamut it is a pretty common occurence. I don’t mind - I just wish I spoke spanish. I have the feeling that if had I could have made some new friends and had some fun times.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:10 pm ¶
CL wrote:

This is why I never help people.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:16 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

I completely relate. I constantly have people wondering why I don’t speak Spanish. I have been referred to as a fiery Latina. I’ve had a lady compliment on my nice Latina hair (I’m not Latina, nor do I have the thick hair that she was referring to). A lot of people mistake my husband for my brother. The thing is, any one of these really isn’t bothersome. It is the sheer magnitude of it. It is (as F already pointed out) a constant reminder that the world sees me as my race first and a person second (if you don’t understand that concept, read The Autobiography of Malcolm X; if you still don’t get it, I’m sorry; I don’t know how to explain it any better). It’s the constant expectation that I should just laugh off these “micro-aggressions.” I do understand that when these mistakes are made, they are not made in malice; but it can still hurt.
When I was a little girl, I was with my father at Costco. I was holding on to the basket that he was pushing. I asked him if I could get a free sample, and he said yes. When I went to reach for the sample, the lady told me I needed to have a parent with me. (He’s white; I’m brown.) I misunderstood, and thought she was telling me that he wasn’t my father. I cried all the way home from the store. It hurt. Now that I’m older, and understand more, it isn’t as bad. But the constant assumption that people can assume they know who I am just by looking at me still bothers me.
On another note, I understand the commenters that mention that people assume your younger sibling is your child. I’m in my late 20s and I still have people who assume I’m a teenage mother (I look young, but not that young). It is a really interesting topic. I’d love to see a post about this.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:22 pm ¶
heyhey wrote:

I can’t believe I’m going to do this, but as Star Jones of all people said “If I went after everyone who talked smack about me there’d be dead b1tch3s up and down the road”.

Okay, that’s poorly paraphrased, but the small daily manifestations of racism are, for me, a case of picking your battles. With the white salon lady, if I was in a WTFmode it coulda been ugly. But if handled in a certain way, as Latoya said, you can school someone in the most literal way… teach them to think about what they said without scaring them (tho, woo, sometimes people need some fear to get the lesson to sink.) Not so much escalate as educate, imo.

And with the tatooed japanese/chinese guy, man, trendy ink has so little to do with ethnic identity nowadays it’s just not reliable to assume. The last time I saw a dude with a full-traditional Japanese sleeve he was a Jewish hipster. Additionally, that guy with the sagging jeans? Not in a gang. There’s two to grow on– the fluidity of fashion makes it an almost useless indicator of race.

@Sulyp - “Sacred line”? For real. Damn.
I’m of “ambiguous ethnic extraction” (how’s that for antiquated messed up turn of phrase!) and whenever I get mistaken for another race I take it somewhat of a compliment but hopefully not for the reasons your friend did. It’s not like I’m proud I’m “passing” and better for it– in fact it’s an ass-pain to have to justify/defend my racial identity to my own people (”YES I’m full, yes, both sides”…gah)– it’s because I know that they were reaching out to connect with me in some way, that it’s a friendly gesture, if ill-informed. I’ll thank them for their intent, but then I’ll correct them, and hopefully again school them.

Yah, so, weathering the daily ignorance and assumptions can be a grind, but big battles can be fought with smaller, well-chosen skirmishes.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:27 pm ¶
heyhey wrote:

ETA: Whoops, yah, I’m sloppily using “race” and “ethnicity” interchangeably. Sorry, these late night Olympic viewings got me all dull and sleepy.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:29 pm ¶
Brian wrote:

I didn’t read all the comments, but I have what feels like a related question about assumptions.

First off, I am white. Figured that is important to put out there. What I am curious about is how to handle interactions with people who may not speak English. For instance, at work, much of the cleaning crew are Spanish-speakers. My interactions with them are generally minimal as they come after I leave, but from time to time, we do cross paths. I’ll usually try to be friendly and courteous without distracting them from their work. I know they are Spanish-speaking because of how I hear them speak to each other but I have no idea if they speak English and, if so, how much. As a result, I’ll generally say a quick, “Hola”, “Buenas Noches”, “Gracias” or whatever little Spanish I feel comfortable using. Is this appropriate? How far does this extend? When I ride my bike I often encounter pedestrians I need to navigate around or who politely will navigate around me and I try to thank them. Once, I encountered two men speaking Spanish and said, “Gracias” and they seemed a bit perturbed by it, but the interaction was not long enough to figure out the full effect. It is possible they viewed me as stereotyping them as being non-English speakers. Basically, I’m asking at what point are “assumptions” informed enough to avoid offense, especially when interactions are brief and don’t offer opportunities for further exploration? Obviously, with my co-workers, I could stop to learn more about them, but what about more fleeting circumstances? Sorry to ramble, but this has really bothered me, as I don’t want to disrespect their culture NOR do I want to stereotype. UGH!

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:07 pm ¶
superchunk12 wrote:

Not to get off thread, but this reminds me of a very beautiful moment between my nephew and my brother in laws mother, who we call Popo. I had always had a suspicion that Popo never really accepted my side of the family, more tolerated it, and embraced the opportunity to see her grandsons. We were watching the Olympics and in one of the events, a swimmer with the last name Hsu, my brother in laws last name, won an event. My 4 year old nephew asked Popo, “did he win because he’s Chinese?” based on previous conversations in this vein, I expected her to say yes. But she said “No, he won because he practices, like everyone in the Olympics.” Not only did I almost stop breathing, I kinda teared up. It forced me to rethink some assumptions on my side anyway.

Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:26 pm ¶
waxghost wrote:

Cynthia, J., Estheroette, and Latoya, I’ve been mistaken for the mother of my younger brother too. The differences, I suppose, are that I’m white, he’s 13 years younger - so it’s at least plausible, even though I look younger than I am and would have been 12 when he was conceived, ew - and the people who assume I’m his mother have all been very POSITIVE about it. (Interestingly, the comments I have gotten have usually been, “he looks just like you,” even though he has darker skin, hair, eyes, a different build, and even noticeably different teeth.)

F., I just want to express my support to you. I don’t think you were overreacting at all and anyone who tells you otherwise doesn’t matter and you shouldn’t have to justify yourself.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 12:17 am ¶
Lisa wrote:

Lots of interesting stories, the peripheral chafes versus the head-on attacks. While I’ve been recipient of many, I realize I’ve also issued my share of ignorant assumptions.

I’m anglo-caucasian and have lived a lot of my life in Mainland China. I get almost daily the “talking monkey syndrome”: people trying to talk at me in bad Chinglish, getting them to stop it and talk Mandarin is a battle. Or when I’m speaking, perfectly fluently, and people just stare at me uncomprehendingly because they can’t digest that I’m speaking “normal”, not a foreign language, and it takes another exasperated Chinese person (usually behind me in line) to repeat exactly what I just said four times. At restaurants the servers will ask non-Mandarin speaking Hongkonger or Overseas Chinese friends to translate what I just said in Mandarin. People assume my Chinese boyfriend is my assistant/translator/tour guide, or that I’m his Russian prostitute.

I always get asked where I’m “FROM from”. It’s always a trajectory of Xujiahui, then Shanghai, then I’m an American national, then I grew up in California. “But where were you born?” Michigan. Then where were my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents born. Eventually we get to Europe, they want to know what country, and then they want to argue with me that I “really” must be either Russian or French, not Anglo-American. Apparently I am “too short to be American”. I also get lots of insistance that I must be half or a quarter Chinese, since of course language fluency is genetic!

I used to try to educate people that asking all non-ethnic Chinese “Where are you from?” is rude, but gave up. Plus Chinese always ask other Chinese where they’re from, as regional ethnic stereotypes are strong, so I’ve learned to just ask it back at them. What angers me now is that parents/society teach that it’s “friendly” to go up to us monkeys, er, foreigners and scream “Haaa-looo” and poke at us. I really tell off parents when I hear them teaching their kids this. Right now, with the Olympics and in general, a lot of what foreign tourists interpret as “Oh the Chinese are so friendly!” makes me cringe because the usual actual intent is mocking and condescending and dehumanizing. Imagine if white Americans habitually went up to Asians/Asian-Americans and screeched “Nee Hao!” two inches from their faces?

Then when I visit the US, friends introduce me as “Lisa from China/Shanghai,” and inevitably some self-impressed sorority chick type will quip, “You don’t LOOK like you’re from China!” I just blank stare at them until they get embarassed, unless they follow up with a ching-chong or the slant-eye, then I’ll point out that they “don’t LOOK American.”

On the other hand, when I see elderly and/or ugly as sin white men walking down the street with pretty young Chinese girls, I do give him the glare of utter disgust. And perhaps some of those ARE adopted fathers (although probably not most). When just arrived and navigating airports in the US, I always feel so surreal and disoriented, and if I hear people speaking Mandarin or Shanghainese I find it comfortating, but have learned if I go talk to them I get a, “WTF, crazy lady?!” response. Which - is how I feel here in China when random foreigners come up wanting to chatter at me in English, the whole, “We’re both white in this crazy brown place, so we should be buddies.” To which - I usually run away screaming, or back away looking frightened, which confuses them entertainingly.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 12:44 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Lisa: Chinese (& other East Asian) people are brown? Since when? i thought brown= SEAsian (as in Filipino), South Asian, Hispanic

Chinese/Japanese/Korean = yellow/taupe/tan

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 7:47 am ¶
different Ali wrote:

Lisa, I get you on the language thing. I have several friends where if they hear some speaking in perfectly inteligible English, only with a slight accent, they can’t understand a word being said. It usually corresponds pretty strongly with how “not white” the other person looks.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:24 am ¶
different Ali wrote:

*hear someONE

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:25 am ¶
Michelle wrote:

I get compared to every redheaded celebrity you can think of - none of which I look anything like. When I wear my hair curly I get Nicole Kidman or Julia Roberts. When I was little and my hair was short I got Molly Ringwald and Little Orphan Annie. When Lindsay Lohan got popular, I looked just like her. It is highly annoying, but I really do think it’s just people being lazy and not really looking carefully at the rest of my features before coming to these conclusions. Red hair? That’s the only feature that gets noticed.

Several of my closest girlfriends in college were redheads too (did we self-segregate? hmmm) and any time I went out with all or one of them, people always thought we were sisters. My best friend was a bridesmaid in my wedding along with my two blonde sisters, but everyone who looks at the pictures who doesn’t know better thinks that she is my sister and the other two must be my friends.

I don’t really lose sleep over it and I know that the hair color thing doesn’t have the same weight or social implications as lumping people together because of their race or skin color, but it really does demonstrate how people pick a feature that stands out and assume that anyone with that feature must be together or related.

It will be interesting to see what happens if my husband and I happen to have a redheaded child - which is a possibility, because he has redheaded relatives in his family too. I remember the first time I introduced a non-white boyfriend to my parents my mother said, “but it you get married and have kids, they won’t look like you! Do you really want kids who don’t look like you?” I really don’t remember what I said in response but I do remember being disgusted that she a)felt disappointed that a grandchild wouldn’t be white and b)thought that it was important that they look like me. I don’t look like her! People always thought I wasn’t her child because I was the only redhead. Maybe that’s where it comes from, but I think she also had just not ever even considered the possibility that she could end up with non-white grandchildren. She has since decided/discovered that a)my children could, in fact, have some of my features even though they would not be white and b) that she will love any grandchild no matter what he/she looks like and c) that non-white people can have red hair too.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:34 am ¶
Pookumssays wrote:

Ooh, lots of good stuff here. LISA: Imagine if white Americans habitually went up to Asians/Asian-Americans and screeched “Nee Hao!” two inches from their faces? It’s funny you bring this up, Lisa, BECAUSE THIS HAPPENS TO ME AND MY FRIENDS ALL THE TIME. I am a third-generation American. At least three or four times a week, and guess what? I now live in Manhattan in NYC, microcosm of the world.

People still ask me where am I from all the time. If I say Boston, they will ask me “No, where are you really from”? Um, twenty minutes outside the city of Boston, born and bred? Then, exasperated, they will say “No, what’s your nationality”? People are just dumb. Nationality is not to be confused with race or ethnic origins. Also, I agree with you, Lisa, that there are ignorant people of all backgrounds. While I can appreciate that you’ve been “victimized” while choosing to live in China, I’m having problems fully identifying. China is not a country of immigrants; it’s never advertised itself as such, in contrast to the US, which from around the 1880’s to after WWII passed the only laws in history to prevent a specific race of person (East Asians) from immigrating. The passing of law sends a strong anti-Asian and racist message to the world. While there are now well over 14 MILLION Asian Americans in the US (Census information taken in 2005), I know there are less than 100,000 non Asians in China, which holds over 25% of the world’s total population. Still a foreigner is still a rariety in this developing country, so while I’m glad you are standing up for yourself, cut people some slack.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 12:33 pm ¶
Rachel wrote:

Ironically, a little incident happened at the dentist this morning. Luckily I’d read this thread first so it gave me something to think about.

It was my first time going to this dentist and, upon walking in, the front receptionist said hi and then said that Sue would be around to talk to me. Having no idea who Sue was, I went over to the waiting room and Sue (a dental hygienist) came out to talk to me. I asked if she wanted to see my insurance card, to which she replied she didn’t. I mentioned that they didn’t have a copy of it and said I was a new patient. Sue then realized that I wasn’t who she and the receptionist thought I was going to be. Both women said they thought I looked like someone else - a woman named Letitia. Going back to the front desk, we got that all straightened out and I went back to waiting for my appointment.

Bonus: Letitia came in while I was sitting in the waiting room. Though we’re both Black, my complexion is darker than hers, she’s clearly taller, and we’re built differently.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 2:24 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:

Pookums-keeps-me-on-my-toes: You’re very right, and while there are parallels and what I encounter is probably more frequent, I have repeatedly caveated here regarding the behavior I encounter that: 1. Permanent resident whities ARE rare in China, so ignorance is fairly justified. 2. The motivations ARE 90% well-intentioned ignorance and 10% malicious, as opposed to the reverse proportions for Asian-Americans. 3. There is not the context of oppressive history and power structure that exists in the US.

My Cali- but some East Coast- Asian-American friends discuss this with me, and anecdotally most have gotten the language compliments and “Knee How”s once or twice in a lifetime, but nonetheless upsetting and scarring. The FROM-froms (rhymes with pom-poms?) are more frequent, they say. I first encountered it when travelling in Mexico with two Singaporean friends; I didn’t really understand it then, but cringed nonetheless.

Now I understand why I cringed. I’m not claiming to be a victim or “victim”; I’m sharing my experiences, and that it can happen to everyone. If every American WASP similarly lived as a minority, and processed regular prejudice? It’s a pain, sure, but a small price to pay for a great life, and I get such incredible support from my neighbors and friends. In general, and on the racial/xenophobia issues. I am blessed and endlessly grateful. I also appreciate the perspective it gives me, however hard come by.

Cynthia - What gets translated from Mandarin as “yellow” actually is medium brown. I roll my eyes that the paler brown Northeast Asians take umbrage at being grouped with the darker brown South/Southest Asians. The only “yellow” people I’ve seen in eleven years in China? Have bordered on puce, and looked a few more shades of sickly green away from croaking like a frog. While at least 20% of Chinese are paler even than my bright pink ass, no doubt yourself included, almost none are yellow in the English-language definition of the color. I’ve always considered “yellow” as a racial moniker up there with Oriental and Eastern and Inscrutible, things that get really badly fucked up in translation. The Huangdi, Huanghe backdrop just doesn’t get through the cut, and you end up with a conceptual comic page neon.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 2:24 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Lisa, I thought “brown” in Chinese was Ka-feh (”coffee coloured”)? Or is that only in Cantonese? I’ve always been taught that kah-feh and wong/huang/wang were really, really different.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 2:47 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:

^^^ kah-feh and feh are used interchangeably, at least with my family.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 2:48 pm ¶
Antonio wrote:

Here’s an interesting incident that made me think of this discussion. White English reporter seems to be mistaken for Michael Phelps in China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OOXXnDugM

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 5:10 pm ¶
Jaye wrote:

Brian -

A lot of times people who speak other languages to each other may also speak English too. Plus most people who don’t speak English usually know the basics, such as thank you, sorry, excuse me, etc.
I usually start with English, and if they don’t answer, then I will try the language I think they speak. They’re usually pretty appreciative at that point, if I get the language right. But if you just go up to strangers on the street speaking a language not your own, even just to say thank you, it’s a little weird, unless you’re in another country.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 6:07 pm ¶
FemaleBillCosby wrote:

@ #55

I’m sorry but I hate to do this but it deeply bothers me when people use Spanish/Hispanic and Latino Interchangeably.

My point is: Puerto Ricans aren’t Latino. They are Hispanic.

This may be a little off topic but I understand F’s frustration. Many times I have been in a checkout line when a man approaches, stands so close behind or beside me that the cashier thinks we are together. Much to my dismay the cashier IGNORES my body language. The guys that do this don’t seem to mind though.

Once again, I know my post is off topic but this article made me think of it.

Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:32 pm ¶
Traveler wrote:

Oh my God, Lisa. I know exactly what are you talking about. I grew up in Asia as well (in Japan) but I’m black. I’m actually in Shanghai now (are you in Shanghai?) and anytime I meet Japanese people, they are SHOCKED at how good my japanese is and tehy can’t get over it. Even after I say I grew up in Japan. So me being able to speak Japanese is no different from you being able to speak it… In fact, I once had this ridiculous conversation. I knew a Korean guy who studied Japanese in school, so he was really good at it, and he had brought 2 of his Japanese friends.

Me: Jay is really good at Japanese.
Japanese Friend: Yeah, he is. So are you though!
Me: That’s because I grew up in Japan.
JF: Yeah, your Japanese is so good, I can’t believe it.
Me: I lived in Japan for 11 years…
JF: Yeah, you speak really well.
Me: Jay only learned Japanese from studying it in school, that’s not how I learned it…
JF: OMG! You didn’t even study it in school?? You’re sooooo good!

Seriously? Like my Japanese speaking ability is unfathomable because I’m black?

One thing that really annoys me about China is that people think I’m like, obligated to have a discussion with them just because I happen to be here and be black. I would really just like to get on with my day. It’s also really fun when they ask my…non black friends where they’re from. They’ll ask about specific countries like France, or Korea, or America, or England, but somehow for me it’s “Are you from Africa?”

Also, when I lived in America, I was constantly confused with this one other black girl in my grade. It was a school of 2000. There were 4 of us in my grade. Seriously, how hard can it be to tell us apart? The only similarity between us was being short and black.

I could go on about this for days…

Posted 21 Aug 2008 at 12:41 am ¶
Jasmine wrote:

I’m an 18-year-old Black girl. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told I look South Asian or Puerto Rican…or been given a double take by people of those ethnicities. I don’t really mind because I don’t take it that seriously. Like, I know who I am and I could never - and would never - be anything other than what I am. And even though we may be of different “races” we can still resemble each other because we’re all…human.

Anyway, my mother is the only medium toned girl while the rest of her family, save for one brother, is caramel and lighter. One day my mom, my aunt, my cousin (the aunt’s daughter) and me were at a clothing store. My aunt, cousin and I are similar colors. To make a long story short, when all four of us got up to the counter, I addressed my mother as “mom” and the white cashier was like, “Wait…that’s not your mother?” pointing to my aunt. And she was *shocked*, like in the “OMG NO WAY!”-annoying way…and it was really weird because my mom and I are like carbon copies of each other as far as facial features go. The only difference is skin tone. =/

And my other cousin MUST get it worse. As stated before, My mother and one brother are the only medium-toned kids in the family. He has a son and a daughter with his wife, who is dark skinned. The son inherited the genes and looks like a handsome little mixture of his parents, but the daughter is light skinned, light hair and eyes that change colors…and as far as facial features go, she doesn’t look like either parent AT ALL. So I can only imagine the stares and the questions she gets because she honestly doesn’t look like *anyone* in the family! But she’s a tough little cookie, so I’m sure she just takes it all in stride!

Posted 21 Aug 2008 at 12:42 am ¶
TL wrote:

You have to remember that a lot of Asian countries are still largely homogenous, so having people of different ethnicities is still a relative rarity. The influx of immigration (slowly but surely) will gradually change this (such as Chinese migrant/seasonal workers in Japan as a bandaid to their shrinking/aging labor force) but for the moment most Asian nations haven’t had to deal with immigration issues to the extent that the US and Europe has had. So of course people in countries like China and Japan are going to consider foreigners oddities if not outright curiosities. Why act so shocked when they act so shocked to see a minority in their country? I’m not saying that condescending racism should get a free pass, but most of the time they just don’t know better in dealing with other races. A little patience can go a long way, I’ve learned from my own experiences in Japan.

Posted 21 Aug 2008 at 9:15 am ¶
Traveler wrote:

Hey, I’ve lived in Asia most of my life, but thanks for the tips and the information, since I had no idea that Asia hasn’t dealt with immigration. wtf?

Posted 21 Aug 2008 at 7:19 pm ¶
Tara K. wrote:

I get your reason for being angry, and I’m not saying there’s no right, but I do want to point out that this happens to white people too. As a white teacher in a school where my students aren’t white, they constantly confuse me with the other white teacher, even though we have radically different appearance (10 inches of hair difference; eye and hair color difference; about 3 or 4 inches of height). I am not offended by this; it only happens the first few days.

Now, I realize that as a white person being unrecognized doesn’t occur much to me and is not as meaningful; there are about a thousand reasons why the situation is different, and I get that. I’m not claiming the situations to be the same — just wanted to let it be said that, though rare, this happens to white people too.

Posted 23 Aug 2008 at 9:49 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:

Antonio: Ha. Yeah, sometimes I can’t even tell myself from other foreigners…

Cynthia: Kafei se is also used in Mandarin, but it’s dark blackish-brown, literally coffee color. It’s an interesting question I’ve wondered about before: the word probably was imported from English in 1920s Shanghai, but odd that the Chinese language previously didn’t have or need a word for dark brown. (Have never heard fei se without the ka - rather cringible as it’s also then a pun for “Africa colored”; uncomfortable “fei” - also means flying and not - puns have been in circulation lately regarding Bolt.)

Traveler - Welcome to Shanghai! Yeah, we could swap tales all day. My favorites are how my Shanghainese friends give me grief for any imperfections in my Mandarin (and don’t get them started on my Shanghainese), and either laugh their asses off or get offended on my behalf whenever I get the Talking Monkey treatment. And the “You really look like a foreigner! You must get that a lot, huh? I’ll bet it’s annoying…”

When I came to China in 1997, yes it was innocent ignorance, and it still is in the countryside. In the big cities, though, there are now lots of foreign residents and tourists, so the freak-out factor doesn’t hold water unless they’re country bumpkins. But, that most urban Chinese have had some interaction with non-Chinese doesn’t always help, since I feel like most whites when in China go out of their way to reinforce the stereotypes that we’re all loud, obese, dim-witted, bellicose and easily overcharged.

Posted 24 Aug 2008 at 1:11 am ¶
Erika wrote:

Boy, it just shows that people assume things all the time. While I try not to, sometimes I think it’s just second nature.

I’m white w/a quarter American Indian, and I have olive skin and dark brown hair. I would say I’m kind of a cross between both my parents. To some people I look white. To other people, I’ve been mistaken for Latina, American Indian, Indian, Middle-Eastern, Italian and Egyptian. It always seems to depend on the person, but a lot of times, Latinos have tried to speak in Spanish to me, but it doesn’t bother them when I tell them I don’t.

Posted 24 Aug 2008 at 9:34 pm ¶
anonymous wrote:

This is something that I never know how to deal with. I’m half Asian, half white and have been mistaken for being latina, black, native american, russian and uighur in China. Many times it is people who are actually latina, etc. who mistake me for one of their own. Most of the time it is white people who just really need to put their finger on my “racial ambiguity.” But what really really bothers me is when white and asian people alike feel the freedom and entitlement to comment on my appearance. As if their first impression of whether or not I look asian or white should mean something to me. The last time it happened was when a white woman asked me if my mom was actually taiwanese (I told her my mom was thai, in her mind, I guess the same place), because I don’t have many “oriental” features. I look just like a new yorker (i.e. white). Jesus, lady, what new york do you live in?!

Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 2:24 am ¶
sans. wrote:

I must say it really is encouraging to see/hear/read about how people everywhere face similar problems.

Honestly, this issue is just about drastic error in classification.
I live in Singapore, which by the way, isnt in China, but is a little red dot just below Malaysia. If you need to know more, we’re hosting the Youth Olympic Games in 2010.

So Singapore consists 75% chinese, and then come the indians(largely just ONE type of indian - tamils), malays, and others. I am Indian, but i don’t fit under that small category so broadly named ‘indians’, so my mother tongue isnt taught in singapore.
So, I learn Chinese. When I say that, people stare at me like I’m some alien and demand that I speak Chinese to them just to satisfy their minds’ disbelief.
Also, since i’m not dark-skinned as the tamils, and i definitely do not fit the Chinese category due to my large eyes and body structure, I am constantly referred to as Malay and Muslim. (i just have to swear. WTF?!)
This of course, results in various stereotypes and questions as to why I’m not religious and so on.

To everyone that faces similar crap.
You’re not alone

Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:00 am ¶
Araja wrote:

Lisa: I’m sorry, I don’t understand how yellow translates to medium brown? I’m genuinely confused! What word for yellow are you referring to? I’ve heard “zongse” used to mean brown, instead of “kafeise.” Honestly, I think kafeise is one of those words that almost every foreigner who studies Chinese learns, while maybe zongse is a little rarer to come by for a foreigner? Anyways, really curious about the yellow translation. Huangse to me means yellow.

Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 11:11 pm ¶
msday wrote:

Now, you see….This is why I don’t like other people, white or black. Some of them have a tendency to always want to put things in a little box. Everyone has to be generalized and grouped into neat little categories. In the past, I have looked like Whitney Houston, Halle Berry, angela basset, someones best friend, the girl who works at the mall. I have had it assumed that I was “foreign” while living in America because I looked like something, “other than black”. I have looked like an American Indian and have had one man tell me, “I’ve been amongst your people.” He was just about to tell me about his adventures in east africa when I blurted out that my people lived in rockville center New York. Now I live in Italy and people have to stare at the brown girl. Some people assume I speak French, Some think I am Cuban and some hit the nail on the head when they know I am an American. It is ashamed that people just can’t look at others as human beings as opposed to a “type”. Now, instead of being the nice girl from the town of Hempstead, I was raised to be. I am now the grouchy, angry 36 year old black woman living in Italy.

Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 2:38 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:

Araja - Well, take what is called “blue” in English. It has a broad range, from lightest eggshell to deepest navy. Imagine there is another language in which “blue” only narrowly means a precise shade of turquoise blue.

Mandarin “huang” and English “yellow” are the reverse of that. “Huang” includes a vast range of all hues of brownish or yellowish, from near-white cream-colored to the dark brackish brown of the Yellow River; it also includes bright English “yellow”, but that is a tiny fraction of its meaning. So, at least 80% of what gets described as “huang” in Mandarin would be better translated as “brown” in English - including skin tone. Which, in Chinese has all the range of “huang” but almost never is “yellow”.

Separately, there is intense historical racism associated with describing east Asians as “the yellow races” and such. It calls to mind old racist cartoons, and images of Chinese as jaundiced opium addicts. So calling Asians English “yellow”, like with the “slant-eye” gesture, one it’s offensive, two, they don’t actually look like that!

Posted 29 Aug 2008 at 12:37 am ¶

Ask Racialicious: Am I Overreacting to Ignorant Assumptions?

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