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1. Feminist Law Professors » Blog Archive » Whoa. on 13 Aug 2008 at 7:09 pm

   […] This. Not sure what I can productively add. See also. […]

2. Welcome to CNN viewers at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 14 Aug 2008 at 2:05 pm

   […] Here’s a link to the ongoing conversation we’re having about the Spanish basketball team’s offensive ad. […]

3. Lashing out at the white race on 15 Aug 2008 at 9:38 am

   […] was on CNN yesterday to comment on the racist ads that Spain’s Olympic basketball teams participated in. It went pretty well, and it got […]

4. Olympic Chink-Eye Photos « An Ordinary Person on 16 Aug 2008 at 7:51 am

   […] For some perspective check out the article and comments section in this Los Angeles Times article. For balance check out the comments at Racialicious. […]

Comments

1. Paul wrote:

   Racially insensitve Europeans? I’m shocked, shocked.

   This ought to come as a surprise to no one. Look at how many Europeans behave at soccer games. They throw bananas at black players and chant horribly racist slogans at each other. Some even use Nazi/fascist imagery in their banners and songs. As bad as things are in the US, Ole Miss banned the waving of the Battle Flag years ago and actually punishes fans who display it.

   I think that having relatively small (and traditionally quiet) minority populations has kept Europeans from learning to keep their racism to themselves. Furthermore, they probably don’t even understand why this is wrong. Afterall, they make German jokes about Brits and Germans, so in their mind, it’s probably the same thing.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:44 am ¶

2. RJG wrote:

   I wish I was at that shoot.

   “Okay everyone! TIME TO LOOK ASIAN!”

   Argh.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:52 am ¶

3. Stella wrote:

   Unbelievable… how people are so utterly clueless is beyond me. It’s too bad the Chinese men’s basketball team lost to Spain last night .

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:55 am ¶

4. PaulPortland wrote:

   You’re right, Latoya, these discussions always unfold in exactly the same way. Might as well just cut and paste the comments from threads having to do with Abercrombine & Fitch t-shirts, Michael Richards’s outburst, and Blackface/ ghetto parties and be done with it.

   At this point, I’m almost willing to just fling open the racial floodgates. Just let anyone and everyone revel in racist “jokes” and “humor” to their hearts content because, you know what? In 50 years when that little white boy or white girl are the minority in every school district on the East and West coast of America, my future kids’s future kids are gonna have a field day making fun of their easily sun-burnt skin (cuz global warming’s gonna be a bitch), their big ass noses, and their boring fucking food. Aw, does that sound mean? Jeez, get a sense of humor and stop being so sensitive. It’s just jokes.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:13 am ¶

5. SolShine7 wrote:

   I’m sure some of those players had a gut feeling that it wasn’t a good idea when they did it, but they probably succumbed to peer pressure. It’s unfortunate. It’s clearly offensive and I’m not Chinese or Asian-American. It’s sad mark on the Olympics.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:23 am ¶

6. Chairo wrote:

   I still cannot believe they thought this made sense

   I think this illustrates just how unprepared/apathetic many are when dealing with racism outside of black vs white discourse

   I stopped watching South Park after the “shitty wok” character got introduced and the pokemon episode

   Nothing about the “shitty wok” character in south park is ironic, or subversive. We’re just supposed to laugh because he is Asian.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:26 am ¶

7. Darcy wrote:

   I still haven’t figured out what the advert company was hoping to accomplish with this photo. If it had just been a stupid frat boy stunt by the players that would be one thing, but the fact that someone actually dreamed this up thinking it would be a good advertising gimmick baffles me.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:31 am ¶

8. deb wrote:

   Man, I can only wonder what that photo would look like if an African country was hosting the event.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:31 am ¶

9. Chairo wrote:

   Just to add, it wasn’t simply the “shitty wok” character that put me off south park

   the homophobia, and jockish humour turned me off as well.

   Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:32 am ¶

10. Dorian wrote:

    Yeah, Spain has a pretty bad track record of racial sensitivity.

    It’s a little of refreshing to know, though, that mainstream media is picking this up. I feel
    racism against Asians generally isn’t publicized
    that much.

    And yeah, I’ve seen a lot of the “Hey, who cares, people are too sensitive” comments, too. It’s frustrating but then I guess whenever there’s charges about racism, there’s always going to be people to play them down with that line. It’s apparently their favorite defense. *sigh*

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:34 am ¶

11. WYSIWYG14 wrote:

    Wow, that definitely is a pretty offensive looking ad.

    One thing that I would request of the responses though is a more indepth analysis of this ad. Rather than simply stating “that’s racist,” I think we could benefit more from discussing why it’s racist. Blantant racism, is not blatant to everyone. What specific history is the gesture referencing?

    From my own “asian” perspective, a quick glance makes me somewhat queasy, but the more I look at it, the less I understand why I should be taking such an offense to it.

    I read the gesture as mocking “asian faces,” (i.e. look, I’m asian. I look like this, I’m funny looking) but outside from that point I’m stuck. To me, this ad says more about Spanish men’s basketball team ignorance than it does anything else.

    This ad brings up an interesting discussion; racism, I’ve learned to understand, is a system that is historically laden. Therefore, it is location and time specific. Are we allowed to impute our meaning system to this gesture and assume its underlying meanings even if the meaning system is nation specific?

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:34 am ¶

12. Tony wrote:

    I swear, sometimes this “we didn’t know” stuff ticks me off more than vehement racists.

    I mean, atleast with a guy in a Klan outfit I know what to expect.

    These “Oh, we didn’t know” people, you never know if they are just using that as an excuse or if they are actually so wound up in their little world they don’t think of how things look to others.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:36 am ¶

13. Sobia wrote:

    Paul:

    I’ve noticed that too. Look at the Zidane head butt a few years ago. The head butt was in response to a racist comment made to him by an Italian soccer player.

    I know I’ve seen countless Bollywood films which contained highly racist scenes whether in regards to Black people or Asians. I wonder if countries which are not as culturally diverse, because of lack of exposure to the issues, just don’t realize how offensive such things can be. However, Spain I’m assuming is a bit more diverse than India and really should know better.

    This reminds me of an acquaintance’s visit to Spain. She was of Pakistani descent, and when she told a local this he was shocked, stating that he didn’t believe she was. Why? Because, according to him Pakistanis are ugly, and he thought she was pretty.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:37 am ¶

14. Gironde wrote:

    “Okay everyone, on the count of three everyone say ‘me put peepee in your coke!’”

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:44 am ¶

15. bas bleu wrote:

    WYSIWYG14 - Yes, racism is historical. And as we see in this case, some racist expressions have an international history and presence.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:45 am ¶

16. deb wrote:

    I mean, atleast with a guy in a Klan outfit I know what to expect.

    And that’s the thing. That type of racism is referential. It’s like, “Hey, I’m not burning crosses, or lynching black people, so I can’t be a racist!”

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:46 am ¶

17. EvilAngelfish wrote:

    I’ve forgotten most of the Spanish I learned but does wink mean something other than close one eye?

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 11:46 am ¶

18. Estheroette wrote:

    Klassy with a K. This is yet another case of cultural cluéléssnéss.

    I am not surprised by this, but considering Spain’s record of racial sensitivity as many commenters already pointed out, I think they’ve just decided to pay lip-service to the offended parties but then just say fuck effort.

    They’re comfortable in doing this and they don’t want to think past their own misguided attempts at “humor”.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:04 pm ¶

19. Wayne Park wrote:

    wut a bunch of dicks.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:05 pm ¶

20. atlasien wrote:

    WYSIWYG14, the links Latoya put up there have more than enough context for why it’s so offensive.

    From my perspective as an Asian-American, the other kids (white) used to make fun of me and reinforce the fact that I didn’t belong by pulling up their eyes in exactly the same way. A lot of other Asian-Americans had the same experiences, so viewing that ad is like getting a kick in the face.

    I’m willing to concede that in other contexts it might not be as offensive. The last time it happened to me was in Puerto Rico… the hotel clerk, during casual conversation, asked me if I was Chinese or Japanese because I had eyes “like this” as he made the gesture. It felt like a kick in the face… but since his intention didn’t seem malicious, and since I knew Puerto Rico has a different and less strict-exclusionary perspective when it comes to race, I didn’t say anything about it.

    Also, I’ll buy that the players didn’t intend to be racist. But the effect is still that they were racist.

    I don’t think a lot of Chinese nationals are going to be offended by this. I could be totally wrong, of course, I’m not Chinese nor do I have family there… but my guess is that there’s no context for the average Chinese person to immediately understand that this is offensive. Nobody ever made that gesture to them. They’d probably have to be explained it logically first in detail in order to feel offended.

    It does have an immediate impact on people like Asian-Americans… including Asian-Spanish. Not a lot of people know about this but Spain is the country that adopts the most children from China after the U.S.. I’m willing to bet a lot of those kids are going to get the eye-pull pulled on them. And their tormentors are going to say, “we didn’t mean to be racist…”

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:13 pm ¶

21. Mammith wrote:

    I live in Europe and I’ve gotta say, the situation here is VERY different to in America. Oh we have the whole general notion that nothing is racist unless you’re saying something like ‘Kill the pakis! kill the chinks!’

    But we’ve never really had a mass movement against racism and such, we’ve had a few little pockets of resistance but the general tone from well known POC is VERY apologetic (Yasmin Albhai-Brown, I’m looking at you). We don’t have anyone commentating or deconstructing the things we see and hear everyday. (Part of the reason I read this site is because there is NO European equivalent whatsoever).

    Whenever anything like this happens, people just cry ‘you don’t understand!’ and everyone forgets about it. Not that I view America as a utopia of understanding and equality, but you’re miles ahead of us.

    I think partially because so much American television gets exported here it’s generally unacceptable to be very openly racist to black people (only openly however). But when it comes to Arabs, south and east-Asians and everyone else its very explicit.

    Many white people in Britain wouldn’t bat an eyelid at saying something like ‘lets go to the paki shop’. And I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard someone start talking in a ridiculous ‘Asian’ (South and East) and start saying the sort of crap you hoped died years ago.

    Hell, even personally my mothers horrified me with stories about the sort of things shes had to deal with in this country (I’ve been shielded a lot because my area is mainly POC, but when my mother emigrated here she was in a mainly white area).

    God, I’ve started rambling on. but it just gets me so angry!

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:31 pm ¶

22. Safiya Outlines wrote:

    I think it’s not accurate to discuss Europe as one big homogenous entity as regards racism.

    Certainly Spain has had several instances with sportspeople of colour being racially abused. A recent case was of Lewis Hamilton (a British biracial racing driver) who suffered a barrage of racist abuse while competing there this year:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/05/sport.world

    As for football, in the U.K there has been a concerted effort to stop racism, hence the outcry about the racist chanting meted out the England team (who have a sizeable proportion of POC players), whenever they play in Eastern Europe.

    Each European country is different in terms of racial diversity and problems with racism.

    Mannith - I’m not sure if the U.K can really be compared with the U.S. The demographics and histories are very different.

    The main difference is, that in the U.K, unlike the U.S, there have been anti-racist movements, there have been movements on behalf of certain ethnic groups, but there has not really been a POC movement. Plus, there is this whole ‘heads down, mustn’t grumble’ attitude in the U.K anyway and you can see that reflected across society.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:51 pm ¶

23. Daniel Jiménez wrote:

    As a Spaniard who now lives in New York, I thought that I should write something. Although I have been following this blog from some time, this is actually my first comment.

    I am really ashamed of what the Spanish basketball team did. I really am. I would like to say that these players do not speak for my country, but after seen the responses in most Spanish forums and blogs, I am afraid that they may be representing us Spaniards very well.

    The photo is of course racist, and there is no way to justify that, but I think that I should explain why something like this could happen in Spain an not in in any other European country or the USA.

    Paul says it very well: “I think that having relatively small (and traditionally quiet) minority populations has kept Europeans from learning to keep their racism to themselves”.

    The Spaniards are only now becoming a multicultural society. Now is the moment in which we are dealing with inmigrants, but it is very rare to see second generation asians or blacks, among others. Only now children are sharing schools with non-Spaniards (yes, we had the gypsies before, but the gypsy-white relationships would need a separate entry of its own).

    What I mean is that the Spaniards rarely see the consequences of their actions, as they almost never have to live, date or work with someone of a different race. It is pretty much like Japan in this sense (and yes, I have lived in Japan too). When they showed the trailer of Resident Evil 5, the Japanese didn’t understand very well what were the complains about. In a racially homogeneous society, it is harder for the people to dectect racism.

    What I find frustrating is when people like the basketball team instead of saying “We are sorry” try to defend their position and declare that it was “harmless fun”. This has also to do with the perception that the Spaniards have about themselves.

    Despite the evidence, the Spaniards consider themselves non-racist, at least compared to the Anglo-saxon cultures. You will see every Spaniard invoking the past and saying “we descend from the arabs and we mixed with other races in the past (in America) while the anglo-saxons created things like the Apartheid. They cannot say that we are racist”. But they won’t say that slavery existed in the Spanish Cuba way after the British forbade the practice in their country.

    I believe that racism in Spain will not go examined until we have a solid second generation of inmigrants who start to denounce it.

    Sorry for the long post, I hope it helps.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:53 pm ¶

24. jvansteppes wrote:

    “An expression of eastern eyes”
    Yeah, nice euphemism.
    While I don’t want to paint Europe as a homogenous continent I’m under the impression that this is still considered to be uncontroversial in many countries there in ways it wouldn’t be in the U.S or Canada.
    In Quebec I encounter people from France all the time and several have made this gesture to me when casually referring to Asian friends. The shocking thing is that it isn’t meant to be racist even in a hipster way, it’s actually considered affectionate or simply descriptive.
    Which doesn’t make it any less baffling or revolting.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 1:14 pm ¶

25. Paul wrote:

    @ Safiya,
    So there’s no more violence between Celtic and Rangers supporters?

    Also, there have been anti-racist movements within the US. They might not have entailed mass marches, but they have had an impact. This can be seen in the answer to the following question: Do you think that this sort of ad would’ve made it past the USOC?

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 1:35 pm ¶

26. Mammith wrote:

    @ Safiya -

    I agree that I oversimplified in my previous comment. Attitudes Europe-wide are very diverse (comparing Sweden to Poland for example). But there is a general feeling in Europe that is very different to that of the U.S, because of our differing histories.

    America while still generally being thought of by many as a ‘white’ country, is afterall a nation of immigrants. When I think of an American I can just as easily think of a Latin woman or a black man as I could someone white.

    I think in Europe (and this really is a Europe-wide feeling in this case) we’ll never be thought of as proper Europeans until some sort of huge cultural shift happens, we’ll always be ‘Johnny Foreigner’

    The whole ’stiff upper-lip’ doesn’t really seem to exist anymore in the UK. people do nothing but complain nowadays, about those ‘lazy Somalians who just have kids and live off benefits’ and all those ’soap-dodging terrorists’. The phrases may be dulled when it comes to certain people but the meanings always the same.

    Europe doesn’t want us, I can’t wait to move away as soon as possible to be honest.

    @Daniel Jiménez - In the UK we’re getting on to 4th and 5th generation children-of-immigrants and still no one accurately explores race and racism in modern Britain. I don’t know if it’d be any different in Spain.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 1:53 pm ¶

27. Safiya Outlines wrote:

    Paul - there has certainly been efforts by both clubs to reduce the levels of violence, but then while there is a sectarian element to the Old Firm rivalry, violence in U.K football matches is usually linked to hooliganism rather then racism.

    Look at the history between Newcastle and Sunderland, or even the two Bristol clubs, or Swansea and Cardiff City, Millwall and numerous other clubs.

    I never said there hadn’t been anti racist movements in the U.S. Please re read my comment. For the record, this advert wouldn’t have gotten past the U.K Advertising Standards Authority either.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 1:54 pm ¶

28. PaulPortland wrote:

    @Daniel Jimenez:

    You are right that this ad (or the other incidents of racial taunting involving Spanish athletics) to implicate Spain as a racist country is absolutely wrong. Different countries have different histories in regards to interacting with non-homogenous populations. I remember as a kid visiting Taiwan and being shocked - shocked, I say! - when I saw a brand of toothpaste called Darkie Toothpaste that used a foul caricature of an African man as its “mascot.” So indifference or ignorance to racial sensitivities happens to everyone. Cultural rules in regards to these sensitivities are myriad (and oftentimes specific to certain regions and to very specific subgroups, etc.) and it’s unfair (to a certain extent) to expect people to somehow know them instinctively.

    However, the part that pisses me off the most about these types of “controversies” is what you wrote about here in your comment:

    “What I find frustrating is when people like the basketball team instead of saying ‘We are sorry’ try to defend their position and declare that it was ‘harmless fun’. This has also to do with the perception that the Spaniards have about themselves.”

    And I find it frustating too. You see, the Spanish b-ball team may not have done the “Chinese Eyes” thing maliciously, but their response to the outrage is most certainly not innocent. Because once you realize that something you’ve done HAS offended a sizeable amount of people, the only proper, respectful, gentlemanly way to handle it is to apologize, right? Rather than to hem and haw and make excuses and try to shift the burden away from yourself by claiming to be the victim.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 2:17 pm ¶

29. Eva wrote:

    I think what the Spanish basketball team did was racist. I’ll admit I did something stupid like that when I was about four or five. In the 1960’s all the kids I knew, both black and white did stupid stuff like that.

    But then I grew up and learned better, it’s a shame to see grown men act like that and then be surprised that people didn’t think it was funny.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 2:37 pm ¶

30. Bobby wrote:

    What’s the Chinese perspective on this issue? I’ve heard a lot from the U.S. media, but none from China.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 3:27 pm ¶

31. MinorityMilitant wrote:

    What bothers me about this is the Chinese (in China) have turned a blind eye to this and brushed it aside as a sort of “miscommunication” between cultures. WTF? And to an extent, the AA community here in America haven’t really come out with a strong response. Sad I say.
    The good news is this might be the straw that breaks the camels back and strips their chances of a Madrid 2016 bid it it gets any bigger. Chicago 2016!

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 3:52 pm ¶

32. Alexandra wrote:

    I think the thing that irks me the most is the fauxpology they gave the typical “sorry if you happened to be offended but we didn’t do anything wrong it just fun and games”. Not to mention they weren’t called racist their actions were called racist. action If they owned up to their racist actions I’d be less bothered by the whole thing.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 3:53 pm ¶

33. Thea Lim wrote:

    A friend from http://www.shamelessmag.com sent me a link to this article on Torontoist detailing Jose Calderon’s thoughts on the whole thing (Calderon is in the picture and also plays for the Toronto Raptors): http://torontoist.com/2008/08/jose_calderon_begga_for_fohgivaness.php

    Calderon uses the word “oriental” and then goes on to say “some of my best friends are Chinese!”

    I also love how everyone including Calderon is saying “they misinterpreted us!” - sorta suggesting this incident was misreported and that what people are saying happened didn’t happen. Uh, people are saying that the Spanish team made “chinky eyes”. That is what happened. Not much to misinterpret there.

    Booooooooooo.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 4:18 pm ¶

34. sdg1844 wrote:

    Not surprised at all.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 4:27 pm ¶

35. Miss Fruitfly wrote:

    What I find most upsetting is that picture touched many many hands before it hit the news stands. The sports editor, editor in chief, copy editor and the dude who printed the newspaper all saw it and didn’t think it was offensive enough to pull. Also, the newspaper didn’t issue an apology.
    It’s pretty sad.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 4:31 pm ¶

36. Paul wrote:

    The Chinese media will say nothing about this because the Communist Party controls it. The Party wants these games to be China’s crowning glory (see the replacement of the “homely” girl singer with the “cuter” girl singer and the removal of people from their homes). Thus, it will likely instruct its media to state that the Chinese people accept the team’s apology and then try and sweep the whole incident under the rug.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 4:40 pm ¶

37. Genevieve wrote:

    Huh. I can honestly say, I’m offended, and I’m not Asian-American. I can also say I was reminded of two things:

    1. I remember when I was about 5/6 I did this… but it was after watching the Fantasia sequence with the mushrooms, and I didn’t see how wrong it was because I was 5. My mother set me straight the minute she saw me by asking me how my friend (a Chinese-American girl) would feel if she saw me, and I was so ashamed of myself I never did anything like that ever again in life.

    2: I was also reminded, oddly, of an interview I read with Dante Basco, a Filipino-American actor, about a dance movie he had done with Antonio Banderas where his character was supposed to be Puerto Rican, but he’d interpreted the character as Filipino. To which Banderas commented that it was all the same to him because the Spaniards had colonized them all anyway. I thought (and according to the interview Basco thought) it was really funny in the terms of a “fuck you” kind of joke, but my sister & aunt were both really offended before I mentioned that it was said in a joking manner. I still think Banderas’s joke was funny, but is this, like, a particularly Spanish sense of humor or something?? (like Monty Python, or Extras for the UK)

    Other than that, I’ve found the worst/most annoying racism I’ve had to deal with is from people who don’t mean to be racist, but just are; they don’t mean to be malicious, but that doesn’t mean that what they really think is true is any less absurd.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 5:34 pm ¶

38. shoepins wrote:

    Being of Asian decent and having grown up in Latin America, where people are do this sort of thing without batting an eyelash, I now understand where this type of racial insensitivity comes from—the conquerors themselves!

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 5:44 pm ¶

39. jmn wrote:

    Since some of those players on the Spanish team play in the NBA, I want to hear their perspective in this.

    Great commentary here:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/basketball/news?slug=aw-nbaspainphoto081308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 6:01 pm ¶

40. brownstocking wrote:

    You know, it’s the end of my day, and I’m hungry and tired, but I swan, one day I’m going to use a visual racist gesture about white people.

    You know, how we …

    Well, we do this thing where …

    Yeah, no answering ignorance. There is no such universally recognized gesture. Wonder why?

    I keep wanting to write about all of this, but it’s not coming out! Ugh!

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 6:01 pm ¶

41. Wade wrote:

    The photo was bad, really bad. It does not matter what the true intention behind this idiotic photo posed by the idiotic men and women of Spanish basketball teams is. The truth of reality is: The photo and the people in the photo reflect badly upon Spain as a nation and Spaniards as a people.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 7:10 pm ¶

42. Shelby wrote:

    Oh Spanish racism! We got to know each other pretty well this summer while I was studying abroad. And this story makes me laugh out loud at my program director who vehemently denied that the constant, overt racism we experienced there was definitely NOT typical of her country.
    Some of my friends in the program told me that one of their professors did this EXACT same “winky” thing in class while talking about Asians. I don’t mean to sound all self-righteous cuz the US is for sure racist…but damn. I was definitely taken aback by how racism functions in Spain.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 7:53 pm ¶

43. Anupa wrote:

    I can’t help but look at the picture and laugh because it’s so unbelievably, ridiculously ignorant that I don’t even know what to think.

    I agree with the many other folks who say that the worst part of this is that the Spanish team can’t even admit to their gaffe once it’s been pointed out. The eurocentricity is appalling.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 8:56 pm ¶

44. Eric Grant wrote:

    JM Calderon plays for the Raptors, in TORONTO (four Chinatowns and counting!) and he thought this was all in good fun?

    Here, pull the other one.

    (Not that Shaquille “ching chong” O’Neal knew any better).

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 9:56 pm ¶

45. Dolly wrote:

    I remember a long time ago in my fifth grade class, my teacher would “joke” about Asians by pulling his eyelids like that. His justification was that he was simply explaining the physical differences between Caucasians and Asians. It prompted an entire class of white students (myself included) pulling on our eyelids and laughing at one another. I’m humiliated and ashamed to admit this now. But it’s a true story and I think it needs hearing because it’s proof that the eye-pulling in this picture is NOT a “wink.” This is a globally recognized, unkind gesture intended to mock Asians. It’s overtly racist and should be condemned immediately. I mean, does Spain think everybody is just stupid? That they can get away with it by saying, “Oh, it’s just your interpretation.” Ugh…

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:08 pm ¶

46. Lola wrote:

    Alexandra wrote:

    I think the thing that irks me the most is the fauxpology they gave the typical “sorry if you happened to be offended but we didn’t do anything wrong it just fun and games”. Not to mention they weren’t called racist their actions were called racist. action If they owned up to their racist actions I’d be less bothered by the whole thing.

    This is exactly how I feel. They weren’t called racist, the action was. And they didn’t apologize for doing this racist action, they’re not sorry for doing something ignorant, they just apoloLIED for the people who felt insulted by “something that was meant be funny”.

    But Spain is known for being racist, they immitate monkeys when black soccer players have the ball, throw bananas at them and so on.

    A comment over at Hyphen had me thinking. What would they have done if the Olympics were in Nigeria? They would have worn black faces just to be “funny”? And I guess that wouldn’t be offensive either?

    It’s such a shame!

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:08 pm ¶

47. dirkdiggler wrote:

    being racist and stupid is no way to go through life, spain.

    Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 10:22 pm ¶

48. Prometheus wrote:

    LOL at EvilAngelFish (17). I was thinking that too. I won’t go all into this as I’ve already responded on my blog. But, the short of it is this move was inconsiderate, irresponsible and tasteless, whether they thought it was ok or not.

    Did anyone hear about the opening ceremony fiasco with the singing girl? Yeah, that was a mess too.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 12:01 am ¶

49. Kaonashi wrote:

    Spaniards doing something racist and trashy? You don’t say!

    In other news, grass is still green.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 2:03 am ¶

50. LexaLove wrote:

    I don’t know much about the NBA but I gather that some of these Spanish players are members of NBA teams. Can you imagine for a moment what the reaction would be for any Spanish player returning, after the olympics, to an NBA team if the Olympics had been held in an African country??? Do you think the Spaniards explanation of, “we painted our faces black as a sign of respects to our hosts” would go down well with Kobe, Shaq et all???

    Like many who have posted comments here my anger is at the Spanish who once realising that their actions had caused offence refused to apologise for these actions. But with Spains recent track record this whole incident is sadly not surprising.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 6:23 am ¶

51. merq wrote:

    Yeah, I was working late last night when my cousin IMed me this mess.

    What I love is how whenever these things happen, they grasp at examples of every [insert offended group here] person they’ve ever met as proof of their innocence.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 6:55 am ¶

52. Jorge wrote:

    What do you think the reaction would have been if the US basketball team would have posed for such a racist photo? There would be an uproar in the USA but I have a feeling that the Chinese would have reacted a lot more negatively.
    @Daniel Jimenez.
    Unfortunately this is not the first time that such things happen in Spanish sports. Formula one fans having “black face” to insult Lewis Hamilton (british formula one driver), the former Spanish Soccer national coach referring to a French player as “Black shit”, fans making monkey noises during a Spain-England soccer game when Black English players touched the ball, bananas being thrown at Black players during numerous LaLiga games and the list goes on and on …
    In all those cases, the reaction of the authorities was to say the least lackluster and they tried to minimize the incidents. Do you see a pattern??

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 9:44 am ¶

53. Reiter wrote:

    Offending the people of your host nation (all 1 billion+ of them). That’s smart.

    I like how the NBA is silent thus far on the issue, even when several members of the Spanish team are on NBA teams. Those key players must have known that that particular gesture was overtly racist. To say otherwise is just dodging the situation and any responsibility for what they’ve done.

    It’s also infuriating that the Chinese gov’t is also mum on this issue for fear of alienating the West and risk jeopardizing any commercial contracts involved. Money before pride, I suppose.

    The most fair outcome I can see out of this whole fiasco is to deny Madrid the Olympics for the forseeable future. Spain obviously couldn’t care less for cultural unity and understanding that is so central to the Olympic Games.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 9:53 am ¶

54. Lisa wrote:

    Yeah, here in China it’s only foreigners who are upset by this. Chinese are still too insulated from global racism to “get” the insult. And I’m sure the Spaniards will be, like, “The (Mainland) Chinese don’t care, so it’s not offensive!” I’m having a similar problem explaining to a Brit here why “flied lice” is offensive, since “The Chinese don’t care”.

    China has yet to acclimate to global racism and sensitivities. The Darkie/Darlie toothpaste is still around, and still with the blackface minstral logo. Chinese don’t really understand when I object to their donning blackface or whiteface, or using “Oriental”. Things like the slant-eyed gesture, or ching-chong, don’t make sense, because the history and context exist in China/Asia.

    I think China is still kinda proto-racist, there are all sorts of unpleasant attitudes towards, and mockery of, whites, blacks, Japanese, Indians, etc, and people from different parts of China, but it’s all mostly innocuous and naive. That is starting to change in good AND bad ways, ie people are becoming more aware that such stereotypes are wrong, but in others those biases are hardening malicious hostilities, and there have been some hate crime style attacks on caucasians in recent months.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 9:58 am ¶

55. Paul wrote:

    Innocuous racism? If there were an American company that sold blackface toothpaste, then people would rightly pissed. Let’s not cut the Chinese any slack in this regard just becasue their PoCs. Hate is hate and bigotry is bigotry.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 10:10 am ¶

56. Gothic Guera wrote:

    I agree Paul
    Dear Spain this is why my mami said “We are better off as orphans!” when I called Spain the motherland in Spanish
    mucho amour
    Gothic Guera

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 12:28 pm ¶

57. Daniel Jiménez wrote:

    @Jorge

    I never said that this photo was an isolated incident. There is plenty of racism and xenophobia in Spain. What I was trying to explain is why it happens and why it is tolerated.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 12:42 pm ¶

58. Ray wrote:

    So, I really don’t think it’s that bad. They were probably just clowning around. Spanish culture is a lot less serious than American culture. I think it was a mistake to put it in the paper, but not too much more.

    This goes back to another post. How many of you are Chinese or Asian? Do you have the right to be offended on behalf of someone else?

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 12:48 pm ¶

59. Roger Marlowe wrote:

    Remember that the Spanish teams are under the thumbs of their sponsors and the Olympic Comittee. If they refuse to do the photo shoot there could be repercussions; they’re victims!
    The culprits are the sponsors who organized the photo shoot and the Olympic Comittee. Let them step forward and take the heat!

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 2:04 pm ¶

60. Miri wrote:

    @Ray

    I don’t think it matters what race you are. You don’t have to be Chinese or Asian to feel offended by that picture. If anything, I think it’s important that different groups in the PoC community start reaching out to eachother. Like someone said previously, racism is racism, and the fact that it exists between two different minority groups, doesn’t make it any less important than a minority group vs. whites.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 2:32 pm ¶

61. MinorityMilitant wrote:

    I totally feel you, Miri. That’s what’s gotta happen. The Asian American community needs others to stand beside us and let people know this shit shouldn’t be tolerated at any level.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 2:42 pm ¶

62. Thea Lim wrote:

    @brownstocking:

    There actually is a visual gesture intended to make fun of white people that is basically the opposite pulling your eyes to make them slanty. Maybe I’ve come across it because I live in Toronto of the 4 Chinatowns…(really Eric? I can only count 2!)

    I’m not going to describe it in any more detail b/c it’s an offensive gesture!

    BUT the thing is that even the existing, well-known slurs/gestures that are intended to insult white folks never have the same weight as the ones aimed at people of colour. B/c the reason why these gestures are offensive is the historical context between white folks and the community of colour they intend to insult.

    When a white person drops the N-bomb, it’s horrifying b/c in North America many white folks owned or contributed to the enslavement of black folks and all the things that that encompassed. If a black person were to call a white person a cracker, it might hurt their feelings a little, but it would not bring up the same horrifying history and the basic message: “you may be considered to be my equal now, but not so long ago we owned you.”

    So I can go around making the gesture I know of that makes fun of white folks as much as I want, but it wouldn’t work
    a) because it’s offensive and brings me to the level of the Spanish Olympic Basketball team
    b) because the sting it would impart is nothing compared to the pain the slanty-eyed gesture reminds Chinese folks of.

    Thanks a lot, institutionalised racism!

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 2:51 pm ¶

63. TruthHurts wrote:

    [Mod Note - I understand what you are trying to say to PaulP, but your comment violates mod policy #3. If you want to call him out on his hypothetical do so, but without direct personal attacks. Try again. -LDP]

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 3:10 pm ¶

64. jmn wrote:

    Holy crap! The Spanish Olympic tennis team engages in the same behavior!

    http://gawker.com/5037034/spanish-tennis-team-also-strikes-chinky%20eyed-chinaman-pose

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 4:23 pm ¶

65. evita wrote:

    hate to say it… hate it BUT I believe we HAVE to start having a constructive conversations with idiots who really don’t get it. Why is it offensive? I really do believe some people live under rocks.

    Sorry. I hated to say it… I really, really did.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 5:15 pm ¶

66. PaulPortland wrote:

    @jmn:

    Wow, now it’s just getting stalkerish. Does China even have economic or political ties with Spain? Is there even a sizeable East Asian immigrant population in Spain? Does China even know that Spain exists as a country? Because the Spanish people’s obsession with East Asian features borders on the fetishistically creepy.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 5:50 pm ¶

67. Lisa wrote:

    Paul: Innocuous racism? If there were an American company that sold blackface toothpaste, then people would rightly pissed.

    Contexts ARE different in different countries. While Chinese are mostly quite racist towards ethnic Africans, with things like Darlie people just don’t kow the North American context that makes it offensive to us.

    As a daily recipient of that “innocuous racism”, I do recognize that it comes out of limited experience and exposure to ethnic minorities. Given the way most caucasians in China act, I kinda understand why we’re all assumed to big bumbling buffoons. 99% of the time, when I point out why racial mockery or stereotypes are hurtful, people are genuinely apologetic - they didn’t know better.

    Nonetheless, many Han (both Mainlanders and overseas, and especially the Taiwanese) do believe themselves to be the master race, and social darwinistic theory is frighteningly popular here. Also, it’s laughable to call Mainland Han “PoC” in the American sense, since they are the dominant and priviledged majority in this country.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 9:22 pm ¶

68. LexaLove wrote:

    So ray to take your theory to its end… if you and a black friend (i don’t know if you have any black friends this is theoretical) are in a club socialising and someone begins to abuse your friend using racial epithets such as N**ger your reaction would be to do nothing because your not black so why should it concern you?

    I hope reading the above it dawns on you just how misguided your previous post was.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 2:51 am ¶

69. Marion wrote:

    I’m a half-Asian (half European) living in Barcelona, Spain. After seeing the giant display of the theatre show “Comeme el coco, negro” at the Coliseum in Barcelona, nothing surprises me anymore. Generally people’s awareness and engagement in issues regarding racism/ethnicity is nowhere near that of countries like the US or the UK. Being half Japanese and having lived in Asia for a while while I was younger, I wouldn’t say it is anywhere close in Japan or in other Asian countries either.

    I agree with Daniel’s post that these things will take time, as increasing immigration into places like Europe and Japan will force their societies to revise their racial attitudes, and I want to be part of this movement. For now, I just have to take it with a grain of salt, observe, and understand what people like myself can do to make Europeans understand that racial attitudes are wrong.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 7:51 am ¶

70. Pookumssays wrote:

    I agree that racism is wrong in general and that everyone has at some point in their lives, a racist thought or moment. Anyone who denies this is living in a bubble. While China has a lot to learn about tolerance, the “eye for an eye” argument I’m hearing a lot is rather disturbing, especially on a site for POC. And yes, as an Asian American, I am a person of color. TO LISA the Han people “a dominant and privileged majority in the US”? I’d like to know where you got this statistic from, if it is actually true. Go visit any Chinatown in the country and see how these people are living. Fifteen people to a two bedroom apartment, working eighty hours a week with no overtime and no health benefits. Sixty year old delivery guys peddling around on their bikes at 11pm, here in NYC. Sixteen year old kids working full time at laundries. The reason the mean household income for these people is higher than average, if that is what you are referring to, is because the average number of people in each household is greater, thus more money from a greater number of salaries, not higher salaries in general. Privileged? If only someone reminded me everytime I’m called “chink” on the street, geisha girl behind my back, denied a scholarship because I’m not an under-represented minority, when I was working thirty five hours a week at my parent’s grocery while going to college full time. Wake up and get real.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 8:11 am ¶

71. mike vizzo wrote:

    If this is meant as a “goodwill gesture”, then I’d really be scared to see what they would really consider as “inappropriate”.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 8:35 am ¶

72. RJG wrote:

    Just as a heads up on how Spain is reacting to the coverage and so on, from the journalist who originally broke the story…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/15/olympicsandthemedia.pressandpublishing?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 10:44 am ¶

73. cb wrote:

    I sort of feel like half these comments are really unfounded. I don’t think it’s fair to simply say the Spanish are racists because of this gesture (or anything else they do, for that matter). I’m actually sort of surprised that other Spanish and European natives didn’t mention this: the Europeans are very emphatic with gestures. Half of their conversations are built on gestures. I’ve seen this particular “winky” face plenty of times in Europe and South America. And never once was it meant in an offensive way. This, of course, does not make it right, but it certainly changes the perspective a bit, doesn’t it.
    I absolutely do not believe the Spanish were purposely being offensive or malicious. Ignorant? Absolutely. Insensitive? Sure. In their eyes, and probably in those of a lot of Europeans, it wasn’t a big deal. America, on the other hand, is hyper-sensitive to racial issues. You can’t win in America with racial issues. If you make a comment calling out a race in particular, you’re racist. If you try to be ‘blind to skin color’ you’re racist for ‘overlooking the minorities’ needs. It’s actually a really interesting phenomenon to us cultural anthropologists.
    I will, however, agree with whoever said that Americans are ahead of most of the rest of the world in terms of tolerance. And Europeans would do well to take after some of our policies regarding racism. Europeans are infamous for their racial intolerance, but I do hope that everyone realizes it’s not just the Europeans. It’s everyone. It’s your parents and grandparents and all of your ancestors. In every culture, there has been some kind of racism, and in fact it used to be much worse than it is today. There has, historically, always been a racial hierarchy in every corner of the world. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not excusing it by any means. But I think that in order to make an accurate response to what happened in Spain you should try to understand the motivation and perspective behind the issue.
    Well, I apologize for the length of this post. I thank and commend all who’ve read this far.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 10:52 am ¶

74. Lisa wrote:

    Pookumssays - I mean Han Chinese in Mainland China, not in the US. When I say “this” country, I mean my “here”, which is Mainland China. Apologies that my Sino-centricity wasn’t more obvious. Certainly, Chinese are not the majority in any Western country, and many have it very hard, I know.

    The Asian Wall Street Journal has a blog post about this topic, delving into the cultural differences about what is offensive. http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/08/15/%e2%80%98friendly%e2%80%99-offense-spanish-gestures-fail-to-rile-china/ Again, Mainland Chinese as majority/”oppressors” end up with very different perspectives than Overseas Chinese as minority/oppressed. The comments are as interesting as the article, and that they have exploded to so many in a few hours is telling.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 11:39 am ¶

75. Cynthia wrote:

    Pookumssays : Please define “Chinatown.” In some cities, “Chinatown” can mean any community where there are lots of people of Chinese descent. In others, it’s just the slummy parts. The Highway 7/Highway 404 part of Markham, Ontario is suburbia where many of the homes cost 500K+. Yet, some people consider the area one of Greater Toronto’s Chinatowns (some would beg to differ, because to them, Chinatown is the inner city).

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 12:00 pm ¶

76. Jorge wrote:

    @cb.
    “You can’t win in America with racial issues. If you make a comment calling out a race in particular, you’re racist. If you try to be ‘blind to skin color’ you’re racist for ‘overlooking the minorities’ needs.”

    Before I reply to your statement above, can you please expound?

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 12:17 pm ¶

77. Lisa wrote:

    Sorry to double-post, but wanted to share some of the comments from the WSJ article:

    Yes American ignorance isn’t the issue here.
    The issue is them, and british too, are a bit paranoid qith the racial problem. They want to hide what they have and do nothing more than show that they are obsessed with it
    Comment by No offense at all - August 15, 2008 at 9:53 am

    Its incredible that the only people offended are those who have nothing to do with the ad. It was made for the Spanish market so maybe the US should get its racist mind out of the gutter and not project its hate on others. Stop using the Spanish basketball team as a way to feel better about yourselves and your constant displays of hatred in your own country and abroad.
    Comment by Amazed - August 15, 2008 at 9:54 am

    For all you non-Asians who posted here, stop wasting your breath pontificating on something you know nothing about.
    The response of the Chinese in China or the Chinese Embassy is muted because they have no context of that the gesture means. It’s like going to the middle of non-English speaking Africa and shouting the “N” word with a smile to everyone on the street. Sure, they’ll think it’s friendly. Or going to the middle of Mexico and calling everyone a “sp*c”, and saying it with a warm handshake. Sure, a warm and affectionated gesture.
    For those of us Asians raised abroad, that gesture, along with the “chingchangchong” (or the infinite variations thereof - it’s amazing that people in different corners of the world are fluent in that same language), have been directed at us from time immemorial with one intent, and one cruel intent alone - to mock us. They’re “fighting words” and gestures, so use them at your own peril.
    As for you cultural imperialists who think that every Asian person wants a big nose and round eyes and a “Western” look, keep deluding yourselves. That kind of smug mentality is what led to the demise of the once-mighty Spanish empire into becoming the mere purveyor of ham and wine. I’ll take my check now, mozo. Can I pay in yuan?
    Un abrazo fuerte a todos.
    Comment by Sonny - August 15, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Jorge, did you grow up Asian in a Spanish or Latin country? I did. In Argentina in the 1970’s. Last I heard, they speak Spanish there. And what was I greeted with as soon as I got there? The “slanty-eyes”. As a playful affectionate gesture? No, it was almost always the prelude to a fist-fight. It was a hateful way of saying “You are a slanty-eyed, funny looking outsider, and you deserve to be ridiculed.” Guess what? When I beat them up, the slant-eyed thing stopped. They didn’t continue doing it as a gesture of ANYTHING. So no hables de cosas que no comprendes, and Spain not being part of the “anglosaxon world” has nothing to do with the spread of racist acts. Oh, did I mention the extermination of the Mayans or the colonialization of the Philippine Islands??? Hmmm, who would have done that ….
    Comment by JC - August 15, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Again, I do understand the argument that neither Spain nor ML China know the context, but it only goes so far. I totally hear the bewildered Chinese response, “We don’t LOOK like that, so how is it mocking us?” It is the same as with what’s her face ching-chonging two years ago: I totally didn’t get it, I just thought she was a moron, Chinese doesn’t sound like that!, before reading this and other blogs to have the background explained.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 12:38 pm ¶

78. Pookumssays wrote:

    TO CB: “Winky” gesture? Nice try. I believe winking in done with one eye. Not pulling both eyes back with your fingers, in obvious mockery of the Chinese and all Asians in general. Affection is established by highlighting similarities, not mocking differences. Just b/c you’ve seen this gesture many times across the Atlantic does not make it not racist. This argument doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. If anything, it is a testament to how widespread ignorance and cultural insensitivty is in many European countries. “It never was meant in an offensive way.” Are you the orchestrator of the photo? How do you know this? Also, to say this gesture is not racist and hurtful is a bold and arrogantly ridiculous statement. Even if you are of Asian descent, which you may not well be, as everyone thinks they can speak for Asians, the target of these gestures, your opinion doesn’t speak for those offended. Since the Chinese are at least 25% of the world’s population, and anyone with sense enough knows this gesture is aimed at hurting people while having irresponsible fun, there are at least millions of people out there who are offended. Speaking from a personal perspective, this gesture is the nightmare of many many an Asian child who was continuously taunted, harassed and assaulted in schools after being flashed this “harmless wink.” This is speaking from personal experience. If you have children or ever will, maybe one day you will know what it’s like if your child is obese and constantly harrassed (it’s a harmless gesture, people signaling a blimp-like figure), slow (it’s a harmless gesture gesture, people knocking themselves on the head), disabled (it’s a harmless gesture, people miming a “gimpy” walk), whatever, or if you are a person of color, being mocked in whatever way HAS BEEN TRADITIONALLY USED ACROSS THE GLOBE AS A SIGNAL OF AN ETHNIC SLUR. you will know better than you do now.

    TO LISA: We are all in trouble when we use either the term and/or identify with being “an oppressor” or the “oppressed.” People, as individuals, should take responsibility for their actions. I’m not really understanding your point here. Are you trying to invalidate the feelings of every single Asian, Asian American, and everyone else who has sense enough to know that this gesture was inappropriate, at the very least?

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 12:49 pm ¶

79. dirkdiggler wrote:

    it’s funny that as much as the spanish try to defend this as an “affectionate wink,” they seem to be the only ones (other than perhaps maybe argentina) who are so very “affectionate.” if they didn’t intend to exhibit their fundamental racist tendencies (see, their treatment of blacks in the soccer and formula 1 racing), then their defense that, well, i didn’t realize that i was giving offense, exhibits a deep and troubling stupidity. seriously, you cannot, as a people, be that stupid, can you? and the more so because many spaniards seem to be unwilling and unable to acknowledge the inherent racism of the photo (actually, multiple photos in a variety of contexts). maybe it’s the culture and society that is fundamentally bankrupt. of course, there are those in spain who probably don’t accept this as appropriate, but i certainly haven’t seen or heard it. all i’ve seen are apologists who try to defend this as somehow appropriate in that culture. that’s ass. just like pau gasol, their best player, trying to play this off like it’s really our problem. ass.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 8:58 pm ¶

80. Lisa wrote:

    Pukumssays - I am also disgusted and offended by the Spaniards’ behavior (original gestures as well as being asses about it in the follow-up), and that the IOC hasn’t kicked them out of the Olympics for it shows how indifferent the West remains to anti-Asian racism. I am not invalidating your feelings and others’: I agree with and support and share them.

    I think we can grant the context argument without agreeing that the context makes it non-offensive. I do realize I’m upset by it because I’m from North America, and know what it means. What I’m trying to explain here is why Mainland Chinese in Mainland China don’t care, seem to think it’s cute, or just stupid, since “But we don’t look like that!” As with the “ching-chongs” and “flied lices”, I have to sit my Mainland Chinese friends down and explain to them why it’s derogatory. Just because you’ve been insulted in a language you don’t understand doesn’t mean you thus haven’t been insulted.

    While there are plenty of racist white foreigners in China, they lack the numbers or the power for Mainland Chinese to really feel any impact from them. It is rather how US whites feel when recipients of racism: ruffled, yes, but minority-towards-majority racism is less egregious than majority-towards-minority, since it lacks power and pervasiveness.

    Regional racism, ie the attitudes of Taiwanese, Japanese, Koreans towards Mainlanders, is a lot more sensitive. The worst though is intra-Chinese racism; people here will be a lot more upset by, say, being called a “short darkie” by a Northern Chinese because they’re Southern Chinese, because that’s the power-backed prejudice they encounter regularly. Only that’s not really understood outside of China because Westerners mistakenly view Han Chinese as monolithic. Hence my “quotation marks” on “oppressors”, because it’s not the cut and dry Han being mean to Tibetans that the world likes to believe, it’s much more Han oppressing Han.

    In other words, the topic of race and power is complicated enough just in the US/North American; when it crosses boarders it can get really convoluted.

    Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 10:21 pm ¶

81. Marla wrote:

    What in the world? MMM MMM MMM. I’ll have to come back to this one.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 9:40 am ¶

82. Reiter wrote:

    As I’m writing this, the Spanish men’s basketball team is getting their racist behinds handed to them by Team USA. And that makes me smile.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 10:41 am ¶

83. allheavens wrote:

    I am not surprised by the general cultural insensitivity or outright racism of the Spanish team.

    I wish to state now that I am not going to paint all Spaniards with the broad strokes of racism but my recent experience as a women of color in Spain left me with a decidedly bad taste in my mouth.

    I have never experienced so much blatant hatred in my life…that is until they found out I was American. Then suddenly I became “super negro”, so much better than the North Africans for which I was mistaken.

    In southern Spain my experience was enjoyable, only one incident. But in Madrid and Barcelona, honey let me tell you, I was ready to issue some major beatdowns. However, my son’s cooler head prevailed by telling me to take a chill pill before I ended up in a foreign jail for ten years.

    I did not experience this 35 years ago as a student or even 20 years ago but because of the influx of Arab and North African immigrants into Spain, a lot Spaniards now think they have a license to hate.

    I will not be going back.

    NOTE: It was three times worse for my son. Let’s just say I was more than a little concerned when he went out alone.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 10:47 am ¶

84. Speener wrote:

    Let us not forget that Madrid is in the race for the 2016 Olympics. The IOC really needs to get back on the right side of things. After rewarding China for it’s wonderful record on human rights, they should not reward Spain for being a country full of bigots.

    By the way - note to Pau Gasol and all of the other morons that don’t understand - if the offended feels that what you did is racist, then it is.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 10:50 am ¶

85. Reiter wrote:

    82 - 119, Team USA. Have fun on the plane ride home, Pau. Expect a lot of booing from Asian-American fans when you start up play for the Lakers again.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 11:14 am ¶

86. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Reiter

    Ugh, I at first thought the same thing - that Calderon would get booed by East Asian Toronto fans - but the more I thought about it I don’t know that that will really happen…Sigh.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 11:20 am ¶

87. BewareofWhiteRacists wrote:

    RACISM.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 3:37 pm ¶

88. Torontonian wrote:

    I’m not surprised that the vast majority of Chinese in China would not be offended by this. Most people who would be offended by this would be East Asian minorities in Western countries, since this is how we were mocked on the playground. Chinese kids in China probably don’t mock each other’s eyes like that.

    My relatives who are foreign-born often refer to fellow East Asians are “Orientals”. They also don’t see a lot of racism directed at them, because they don’t fully understand the cultural nuances, when people are being sarcastic, etc.

    Posted 16 Aug 2008 at 4:33 pm ¶

89. Bewareof WhiteRacist wrote:

    Spain is, in all honesty, RACIST and stupid. Other countries can clearly see the racism in this display.

    This can in no way be a gesture of greeting. It is common knowledge that the Chinese bow to each other as an expression of respect.

    Spain, as a guest, has shown itself to be crude and irreverent to the customs of China. This is an international sport that requires the highest display of sportsmanship and virtue. Spain’s athletes represent their nation, the team in China’s Olympics, and the world. In no way would this be acceptable behavior in front of dignitaries in China, let alone the whole of Asia, U.S., Africa, or Europe. Even in Europe, you bow - sometimes kneel - before royalty. You don’t stretch your eyes back!

    If this were several hundred years ago, the royals would have sentenced Spain’s team to the gallows. Such disgrace and thoughtless conduct would not be tolerated, let alone entertained.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 12:59 pm ¶

90. Dee-Rob wrote:

    As a white person who is no way an expert on racism and/or Chinese, I just have to clarify one thing.

    BewareofWhiteRacist wrote, ” It is common knowledge that the Chinese bow to each other as an expression of respect.”

    I had this “common knowledge” challenged by every Chinese person in my partner’s family and all of their neighbors and friends I met in Malaysia and Singapore. They’ve told me (while teasing me, I might add) that bowing is more of a Japanese thing.

    What I learned from them is mostly that with billions of people and a large diaspora throughout the world, there is no one Chinese way of acting, and what the west considers “common knowledge” is beyond limited and flawed.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 3:19 pm ¶

91. Dee-Rob wrote:

    Oh, and I would concur with Torontonian with the unscientific sample of one. My partner who grew up in Asia has almost no reaction to the childish, racist things I grew up with like slanting your eyes. He never was mocked that way, and I had to explain.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 3:22 pm ¶

92. MinorityMilitant wrote:

    Torontonian,

    It’s not just persons of East Asian descent, it’s also those of Southeast Asian descent as well. Many people can’t tell us apart but group us in the same category.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 5:17 pm ¶

93. Paul wrote:

    Why do people keep excusing the Chinese, Mexicans, etc. for overtly bigoted imagery? Whether it by Dark(l)ie or the monkey boy, negative images of black people are inherently bigoted. Black people need to get on the ball and call out non-whites on their dehumaization of black folks. Wrong is wrong.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 5:23 pm ¶

94. Jaye wrote:

    Don’t mean to change the subject, but speaking of racism at the Olympics…I wasn’t sure if I should be offended when they were talking about Usain Bolt, the runner from Jamaica, during the 100m race. They called him a ‘freak of physics and physique’. I wasn’t sure if I was being overly-sensitive, then they went on to describe him as a ‘monstrously long specimen’.

    I’m not really into the Olympics so I only watch it occasionally, but did they ever refer to Phelps as though he was a scientific experiment being examined under a microscope? And this wasn’t even off-the-cuff remarks, it was part of a prepared video commentary by NBC on his background and history. Sorry to derail, but just wanted to point out that racism seems written into the script of the Olympic coverage to the point where it’s not even noticeable or newsworthy.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 5:32 pm ¶

95. michael wrote:

    jaye,

    michael phelps has been accused of cheating, of being a druggie, along of being called “the human amphibian” and “human fish”….no racism exists in these comments, it’s just human fascination with people out of the ordinary….this exists in all sports, such as gymnastics.

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 10:57 pm ¶

96. BewareofWhiteRacists wrote:

    Dee-Rob is wrong.

    Bowing is esteemed as a form of respect in all societies, including China and Spain.

    You bow to Prince Charles; you don’t pull your eyes back! Spain’s prank would not be tolerable in a business meeting, among dignitaries, in the U.N., in front of royalty, and in the Olympics!

    Posted 17 Aug 2008 at 11:46 pm ¶

97. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Michael -

    No, it’s racist. There are lots of ugly whispers about olympic athletes (I’ve heard unflattering comments about a variety of competitors) but there is a history of racist reporting attributing the performance of black athletes to innate ability or instinct, or using very loaded words to discuss the same topic.

    For example, the coverage of Venus and Serena Williams - while their competitors are lauded for playing with “grace” and “intelligence” the Williams sisters were often described with monikers like “brute force” and “raw power.” In a sense, such reporting can be quite diminishing as it plays into racial stereotypes about blacks. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t powerful players - but it is suspect how these talented women tend to have most of the focus on their strength rather than the mental aspect of tennis. And again, these things would not be significant if they were parsed out equally - but they are not.

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 6:13 am ¶

98. Leon wrote:

    Spain can do whatever they like, because at the end of the day it’s their chance of hosting an Olympic games they’re putting on the line.

    BTW heading to day 11 of the 2008 games, Spain has 32 gold medals ALL TIME and China has 39 in 10 DAYS of the 2008 games…so like I said Spain can do whatever they want, it’s still doesn’t change the fact China absolutely SCHOOLS Spain.

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 12:38 pm ¶

99. Dee-Rob wrote:

    @BewareofWhiteRacists

    Your original assertion was not about bowing in general, which is, of course, practiced in the U.S. as well. I certainly have bowed my head respectively and courtesied and genuflected, which are related.

    Your post made a comment about bowing as a common practice by Chinese people. I only mention that has not been my experience at all within several (diaspora) Chinese communities. I’ve been hugged and had my hand shaken and been patted on the back. But, no bowing.

    It would seem in keeping with this site to question “common knowledge” that doesn’t match experience, especially when you are talking about a group of people 1/5 of the planet.

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 1:05 pm ¶

100. Ray wrote:

     @LexaLove
     If I was at a club with a friend and someone was using racial epithets against them, regardless of their race I would help defend my friend. The difference I see between this and the story is that I’d be at an American club with an American friend here in the US, whereas on this story I’m giving an American perspective on a Spanish gesture towards Chinese people. In the first situation it involves 1 culture and the second involves 3 which think drastically differently from each other.

     Having lived in another culture I know that in Brazil I witnessed things that bothered my concieved notions of race, but when I talked about them with Brazilians I understood that things that bothered me were an acceptable and normal part of the culture. We might just be misunderstanding Spanish culture here.

     Wheather someone can or cannot be offended by racism towards another person, I was refering to another post on racialicious found here: http://www.racialicious.com/2008/08/11/may-i-be-offended-on-your-behalf/#more-1813

     Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 6:36 pm ¶

101. Lisa wrote:

     Dee-Rob/BewareofWhiteRacists: If you actually bowed to someone in Mainland China, they’d fall over laughing at you. Might as well take those stereotypes all the way and just kow-tow!

     What people do still do here, and the rest of East Asia I think, is when first meeting and exchanging business cards, we lean forward a little from the waist, accept the card with two hands, and nod slightly. You could argue that the practice is derived from a traditional bow, but that’s really really really a leap in my opinion.

     Geez, “Chinese people bow a lot,” that’s just hilariously misinformed. No wonder foreign tourists act so weird in China, they read all this hooey “cultural” advice - which someone probably made up knowing some gullibles would believe and follow it. Hmm, maybe that’s what happened with the Spaniards - some prankster started a rumor that “slanty eyes” are a Chinese gesture of endearment?

     Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 9:04 pm ¶

102. Jean wrote:

     Clearly we have not come very far and have a long way to go to evol to the truly spiritual, loving beings we’re intended to be… when it looks like things are progressing we take a thousand steps backwards. I hope my children’s, children’s, children’s generation can get it right for the rest of us. All this conversation about slanting eyes bowing and the like… would the spanish team have done the act if they truly loved themselves, would they had a true love and understanding of humanity? I think not! Let’s keep at evolving.

     Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 1:52 pm ¶

103. Dee-Rob wrote:

     Thanks, Lisa.

     I haven’t been to Mainland China, yet, but I certainly had folks laughing at me in Malaysia and Singapore over my naive, Western notions.

     My Mandarin teacher did show me the proper way to present a business card. Fortunately, I never had to actually master that to hang out with family on Chinese New Year.

     Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 3:08 pm ¶

104. Tad Nathaniel wrote:

     Time-slip, if you will, back to the 1950-1960’s. The boss (of course, male) walks into the office, and pats his female secretary’s rear end. He says, ” I like them round and plump.” Now, someone from the 21st century tells this boss that he has done and said an awful thing, and he is being downright sexist.

     His response: “I was giving my secretary a friendly greeting. It was just harmless fun. It is absurd for anyone to make a big thing of it. How could women possibly take offense at this? I’ll have you know that I am friends with many women!”

     Dear stupid Spaniards, don’ t you think it’s about time you learned that it is offensive when the people you direct your words and actions think it’s offensive. The one dishing it out has no say in whether people should be offended or not.

     Join us. We have already moved into the 21st century. Hope you can catch up.

     Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 9:47 pm ¶

105. barbara wrote:

     The players posing in the pictures should have had enough kahunas to say no. Even if you didn’t “know” it was racist, it was childish and stupid.
     Aside: when we were kids one of my friends had “chinese” eyes and everyone who described her said she was pretty because she was light-skinned with chinese eyes and “good” hair. Even now I hear little black kids described as so cute because of their chinese eyes. Does that make us racist…….

     Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:48 am ¶

106. Slant-eyed Asian wrote:

     You’ve heard of the fearsome team from Spain:
     They persevered for Gold in vain.
     Poised with confidence, unrestrained,
     Their eyes betrayed the heart they feign.

     “Friendly and harmless, simple and plain.
     You read into it; it’s all in your brain.”
     Such words of comfort they hope have regained
     The misplaced trust ever more to attain.

     Good humor they claimed they wish to retain,
     But it all came under fire and rain.
     In centuries passed, their glory has waned,
     In clueless oblivion they choose to remain.

     Shell-struck people of Asian terrain
     Witness again the white man’s refrain.
     Branded “sub-human”, they once were detained
     In the confines of their master’s domain.

     So goes the story of the team from Spain:
     They persevere for support in vain.
     Poised with resolve, but now restrained,
     Their shame foreshadows all that they feign.

     I am your slant-eye, but this I maintain:
     My blood is as red as that in your vein.
     My insides are torn, my emotions drained,
     To hear you proclaim there’s no one in pain.

     …by Slant-eyed Asian…

     Posted 22 Aug 2008 at 11:10 pm ¶

107. Jin Xaong wrote:

     I’m from China, and this picture was for a CHINESE company. Nobody here in China was offended, it was clearly meant as an indearment: “we’re all chinese during the olympics”.

     Its strange to see how offended Americans got by this. It just goes to show further how much more racially sensitive americans are than other countries. Probably due to your racist history.

     Posted 13 Sep 2008 at 2:42 pm ¶

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