When is Black “Black?”

by Guest Contributor Danielle Belton, originally published at The Black Snob

“She needs to quit.”

That’s how the discussion got kicked off on One Drop Rule’s message board July 2nd. The person accused of needing to cease and desist was CNN reporter Soledad O’Brien who spent the past year working on a documentary for the cable news network entitled “Black In America” which airs this week. And the quitting in question was in regards to her black status.

“I have watched her with (African Americans) before and never once did she refer to (African Americans) in the first person, as in ‘I’ or ‘We’, or ‘we as a people’, etc. Maybe that’s just a journalism thing. But Tim Russert did identify as a Catholic when the Pope died, so?” wrote one commenter.

“Also, I have read at least one article … that says, rather Soledad says, that while her mother raised her/siblings to be just (African Americans), she sees herself as being bi-racial or mixed race. Now, she could just be saying that because she’s doing this show. Maybe on St. Paddy’s day, she said she was Irish.”

This attitude was sprinkled throughout many of the comments. At one point a few seemed to get an interview O’Brien gave to MyUrbanReport confused where she talked about her own upbringing as “black” and the story of a mixed couple she interviewed for the documentary who differed on whether to raise the children as biracial or black.

    “Here you have a kid to me who is completely biracial,” O’Brien said in the interview. “They’re little children, but their dad doesn’t necessarily see that (they’re black.) … My mom and dad were like you’re black. That was just the way it was. The way they were very clear about it made me clear about it in my head.”

O’Brien has repeatedly in the past given accounts of her life as a black Latina. In a profile with the Irish Echo Online, she talks about her identity (her mother is Afro-Cuban and her father is Australian-Irish) and the struggles her parents went through as a mixed race couple back when it was still illegal in some places and some restaurants wouldn’t serve them.

    O’Brien tends to treat her own ethnic mix with a light touch. She said that people laugh when they see her without makeup “because I have so many freckles that I look very Irish.” She also gently mocked the notion that her mixed-race background exposed her to unimaginable horrors.

    “I have had people say, like, ‘Oh, so you were a tragic mulatto?’ Well, um, not exactly. I was just a middle-class girl growing up on Long Island.”

    It isn’t possible, she contended, “to over-dramatize” what (her parents) went through … “They were doing stuff that for the time was very risky – socially risky and risky to their own physical safety. And they decided they were going to go ahead and get married and have six kids,” their daughter recalled.

While the board eventually clears up the confusion over what O’Brien said versus what the couple she interviewed said, there seemed to be a prevailing hostility towards the reporter for her alleged flip-flopping on her “black status.”

I’ve heard this on more than one occasion, but haven’t seen much from O’Brien to back this belief up considering she routinely plays up her black heritage over her Irish roots. After awhile I started to wonder if this hostility was over the fact that she was white enough to pass, but still ensconced herself in black issues and news stories (she’s a member of the National Association of Black Journalists). Were their “lying eyes” keeping them from recognizing her as a woman of color? Especially with her straight hair and nondescript accent, standard for any TV journalist?

Or was it because the belief that she was switching sides rang true in the subconscious of many blacks? That the thought of her being a racial opportunist, trading places when convenient was too good and malicious a story to pass for those grappling with their own degrees of racial self-loathing and schadenfreude.

After decades of the “one drop rule,” where blackness was based on the slightest amount of African heritage, it seemed odd to argue over a woman who openly embraces both sides of her family and talks candidly about being raised black, but also being biracial. It seemed odd to determine that this was some form of betrayal if she used the term multi-ethnic in reference to herself when she is, in fact, multi-ethnic.

Presidential candidate Barack Obama describes himself as a black man of mixed heritage and no one questions it, but Soledad O’Brien does it and it’s somehow contradictory. I have come to believe this is only because she looks white enough to pass and is married to a white man. These signifiers are used to strip her of her right to call herself a person of color. They are a way to reject her for having the gall to be born not looking black in an age where half-black people who don’t look black often choose to declare themselves otherwise.

The whole debate over O’Brien (and the misdirected, but true frustration over a black mother with white looking children who saw them, and felt the world saw them, as black) made me wonder if the rules had changed for some people. Was black really black anymore? In St. Louis we have a city license collector who looks as white as any white man, but possesses a southern drawl and a demeanor that is everything of a black man. Is that O’Brien’s crime? She doesn’t ooze blackness? Because I’m black, visibly black, and I don’t “ooze” blackness. But my race is not questioned because of that high visibility.

Is the problem that O’Brien isn’t seen as a “real” black woman? That she couldn’t have had endured a “real” black woman struggle because she is so light? Is this another variation of the “spectrum” warfare, the colorism that happens amongst black people? In a form of pre-rejection, where some blacks withholding their embrace of O’Brien because some lighter blacks rejected the darker in the past and present? To even the field a reversal must take place?

And if your mother is “black” as O’Brien considers herself, what are her children, who are blond haired and blue-eyed? Where does this fit when historically all it took was one Afro-Cuban grandmother to make you black? Does the rule no longer apply? Are their different rules for those who can “pass” and who can’t? And is that rule based on how black you look, if you can pass and if you are perceived as benefiting from your “whiteness?”

And how much of this is about ego — hers and ours? When a black person who could pass choses “us” I tend to look favorably on them. But is their endorsement an old lie based on outdated and outmoded beliefs? Can you be something other than black in America when you no longer look black in America?

I had a Great Great Aunt Josephine, and she, like many members of my father’s mother’s family were light enough to pass for white. Yet my great great aunt and her sisters and her nieces were vehement about their blackness. They would curse you out in an instant if you doubted who and what they were. They married the blackest men they could find. As did my father’s mother, explaining why the light-bright-and-almost-white lineage ended with him and his brothers.

Yet at the same time, when it benefited them, they didn’t exactly correct white people. My father is fond of telling a story where his Aunt Dinky, the only dark one out of his mother’s sisters, drove my father and his brothers to Kansas to see their great-grandmother who was in the hospital and dying. Aunt Dinky told the taxi driver what house to take her to and the cabbie said no colored people lived in that neighborhood, but she insisted he take her anyway. Then when she told him what hospital to take her to, he said no colored people went to that hospital, she still insisted that was the right place to go.

Once inside the woman at the front desk repeated the same tired song. There were no colored people at this hospital, but Aunt Dinky looked down the hall and there was Aunt Josephine and her sisters. She told the attendant she saw her family and kept going. When Aunt Dinky told her aunts that they had the folks in the hospital thinking they were white, Aunt Josephine shot her down. Why would they think that, she said while her mother lied sick in a bed, whiter than any white woman.

My Aunt Josephine would fight you if you told her she looked white. But she knew she did and she embraced blackness anyway. There were pluses to being that light, but she still dealt with racism and the wary looks of blacks who doubted her. What about today?

Can Soledad O’Brien embrace blackness while not looking black, not “sounding” black and not being married to a black man? Can she embrace it with blond, blue-eyed children? Have the rules of blackness changed, or are we still playing the same psychological mind games we’ve always played when it has come to race in America?

I often say in America you are what you look like.

But if you look white but call yourself black, what are you?

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Black is Black is Black… « The Secret Sociologist on 30 Jul 2008 at 10:47 pm

    [...] am so tired of the “Are you black enough?” issue, probed extensively in articles like this one following the “Black in America” CNN [...]

  2. A Question of Authority at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 13 Aug 2008 at 6:00 am

    [...] and a conversation with a friend got me thinking about issues of race and racial authority. In the post about Soledad O’Brien, Danielle Belton examined O’Brien’s multiracial identity and its reception in the Black [...]

Comments

  1. TXg wrote:

    Wow, this is my first time here, but this is a phenomenal post. I don’t even think you have to be black to recognize Soledad’s plight. She plays on her mixture of races whenever it benefits her most.

  2. Jenn wrote:

    Soledad is being questioned b/c her husband is white. When is a reporter ever supposed to use an “I” or “we”. If she was a video model letting a bunch of rappers pour liquor on her or single with 4 kids no one would question her blackness.

  3. A.J. wrote:

    Thank God I don’t live in America.

    As a multi-ethnic woman myself, it is so much easier to just be *myself*, here in Toronto, Ontario. None of this one-drop rule business. I do feel sorry for Soledad, though I don’t care for her too much as a journalist, but to chastise her for not being “this enough” or “that enough” is absurd.

  4. Nicole wrote:

    Jenn,That’s so racist, but I see what you mean.

    Anyhoot, I think the one drop rule is dead and gone. You cannot split your soul, and so, if you are mixed race just be mixed raced. If your kids look white or black, they are still in a mixed race family and a mixed cultural family, Latin, black, Irish, American. I also feel it’s her prerogative to represent herself as black whenever she feels that it will work for her. She’s biracial, and so, she’s a representative of each of her racial groups. Her children will obviously be raised as mixed raced children.

  5. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Awesome post. Best I’ve read here.

    You posted “who openly embraces both sides of her family and talks candidly about being raised black, but also being biracial.”

    As the father of two little bi-racial boys myself, I hope and pray they can becomes as comfortable in themselves as the above suggest of O’Brien.

  6. Dana wrote:

    A lot of people come from multi-ethnic backgrounds in this country. It seems that it only matters when you are hard to fit into a box, when your appearance varies from the preconceived notions of blackness, whiteness, or asiatic features, then all of a sudden you are threatening. People, all of us, human beings love putting things into nice neat categories. When something appears that we cannot neatly categorize, whether that be a person, an event, or a feeling–we become threatened and angry. That seems to be the problem.

  7. Jus Plain Ol Me wrote:

    Confession:

    I adore Soledad and actually stopped watching CNN for months when they took her away from CNN’s morning show (or she left, whichever happened). But that’s primarily a professional and aesthetic issue.

    Regarding the genetic and cultural piece (not that they’re all mutually exclusive), I’m not sure where someone gets off on telling another, who is at least part of a certain racial or ethnic group, that they can’t lay claim to that group. Doing so presumes there is a certain way to act, think, dance, dress, look, or speak black. There isn’t. (And that’s one thing I wish Soldead’s piece would have highlighted more.)

  8. Fatemeh wrote:

    This brings up some great issues that I’ve been thinking of recently, and which I will try to pour into a post soon.

    Those of us who are biracial and pass often grapple with the idea that we’re “racial opportunists” who passively pass when it’s convenient (or safer), and who play up their non-white ethnicities when it’s convenient or advantageous (for diversity-based job hiring, for example). This often gets us hate from all sides of the racial “divide.”

    Readers, I’m interested in your opinions about bi- or multi-racial people that can pass as white using this to their advantage; in effect, choosing which race to present oneself as at different times. What do you think of this? Does it have both positives and negatives?

    I don’t want to derail the thread, but I think this is relevant to the topic.

  9. Angel H. wrote:

    Anyhoot, I think the one drop rule is dead and gone.

    I disagree. Think of Tiger Woods and Halle Berry. Although Tiger’s claims himself as Cablanasian(?), he’s still generally seen as a Black golfer. Halle is still generally seen as a Black actress. Usually, they’re the ones who have stepped up to remind people that yes, they are multiracial.

  10. Persia wrote:

    Presidential candidate Barack Obama describes himself as a black man of mixed heritage and no one questions it, but Soledad O’Brien does it and it’s somehow contradictory.

    What about Debra Dickerson’s article on Obama’s ‘blackness’ or lack thereof?

    But this is a great piece, though depressing.

    Fatemeh, I don’t feel like it’s any of my business to tell people how to identify themselves. My family is mostly white, but I had a Native American great-great-grandmother who chose to throw out all her Native things and ‘pass’ in our white, Northern New England community. It breaks my heart– I don’t even know what tribe she was and probably never will– but I understand why she did it.

  11. Antonio wrote:

    “Presidential candidate Barack Obama describes himself as a black man of mixed heritage and no one questions it”

    I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. I recall several black writers and pundits mentioning that Obama is the son of a Kenyan and not a descendant of a West African slave like most black Americans. It was more like saying “Yeah he’s black, but…”

    Very interesting questions raised by this column. I’m very much like the author, black, visibly black, but not oozing blackness. I think there are no authoritative rules anymore and as the racial barriers of the past erode we’ll have to deal with such complexities more and more.

  12. atlasien wrote:

    Not being able to pass for white, I’m actually quite relieved I don’t have to face this issue. I wouldn’t begin to know how to face it; it seems like such a complicated basket of pluses and minuses. I’ll be hanging back and absorbing what other people have to say.

  13. Jaye wrote:

    For me, this isn’t so much about Soledad’s race or how she identifies. I personally think that in conjunction with her documentary, questioning her black status is a “polite” way of saying that the quality of her work and ideas shows her ignorance, her lack of racial sensitivity, her superficiality and her cluelessness. I honestly would have preferred Lisa Ling doing a “Black in America” documentary, I think it would have been infinitely more respectful, comprehensive, realistic and nuanced, because the quality of her work in the past has shown that to be the case. Soledad just seems like she has no idea what is really going on, or she is pretending she has no idea what is going on, I’m not sure which.

    Would people have been so critical of her if the documentary had been any good? I think rather than trying to critique the documentary and what a bad job she did with it, some people find it easier to go after her racial identity.

  14. Izzy wrote:

    [Mod Note - Izzy, you raise some good points in your comment, but I ultimately could not approve it. On this site, biracial and multiracial identity will be respected. It is not an optional designation, we allow people to identify as they see fit. So any comments that propose that people are being disingenuous for wanting to acknowledge both sides of their heritage is not going to work. Further, the majority of readers on Racialicious know the basics of race and biology. However, we are specifically discussing the *social* aspect of the societal construct and how it plays out in real life; not how things should be, theoretically. Please review and revise your comment. I particularly liked the bit about black and white social constructs being at odds with each other, and race being shorthand for actions taken. However, my coblogger Thea pointed out a very clear distinction that should be made:

    1) the way in which Soledad takes advantage of her privilege as a part white person
    and
    2) whether or not she should identify as black

    are separate issues.

    The first can be a valid, if tricky, argument to make and worth exploring. The second is not a valid argument. End authority on her blackness is Soledad herself.

    Please give our comments a think, and resubmit your comment. - LDP]

  15. WestIndianArchie wrote:

    [Mod Note - Please clarify your comment. I cannot approve it without an explanation of why. - LDP]

  16. browne wrote:

    “I honestly would have preferred Lisa Ling doing a “Black in America” documentary.” Jaye

    Exactly. I think stories should be doled out on level of experience, expertise and broad understanding. I would have MUCH rather seen Lisa Ling doing this series (though I haven’t watched it, owing to I don’t think Soledad is a good reporter, regardless of if what she is ethnically, she’s just not very bright in my opinion.) Hopefully people will get over this matching silliness and start assigning stories based on actual knowledge.

    Lisa Ling rocks, but she probably wouldn’t do the story the they wanted it covered. From what I read this CNN special seems completely ridiculous.

    Browne

  17. The Black Snob wrote:

    As the author of the post I wanted to chime in that I do think a lot of the hostility towards Soledad was in regards to the “Black In America” documentary. But the hostility I wrote about the post actually pre-dates the airing of the documentary, with the sparring on the One-Drop-Rule message board beginning July 2nd. (And I wrote the piece before the doc aired.) And I’ve heard the murr-murring over her for some time.

    The documentary and its shoddiness just made it all the more acceptable to question her race. So I saw this as long lingering distrust that turned into outward hatred when the doc aired and turned out so badly.

    I honestly feel there would be less questioning and hostility if she were married to a black man. There is this prevailing thought that if you are a person of color who marries a white person you have “sold-out” to some degree. I believe that because she is so light and because she married a white man most questioned her ability to speak as a black person and were offended by her calling herself black. It was seen as an insult.

    As for the Barack Obama comment, I wasn’t necessarily referring to the distrusting minority of critics and academics, but the vast majority of black people who do consider Barack Obama black and do not doubt him despite the fact he was raised by white people and lived in a largely white world. Soledad actually had one black parent who raised her, but she’s the one catching grief.

    I’d prefer if people would criticize Soledad as a journalist and not attack her “right” to call herself black, but this a very old and sensitive debate that involves the psychology of self-hatred, feelings of “racial treachery” and a mixture of jealously over the perception that lighter blacks have it easier — despite the fact that racism affects them as well.

  18. Afroamerica Writer wrote:

    I watched the Black In America series and a post show Soledad did with Anderson Cooper. When Anderson asked Soledad what she would call her children, she said “persons of color.”

    At the time, I’ve never seen her children (until here). And when I look at them I don’t know if I would call them “persons of color” since they look “white.”

    But I’m also a person of a diverse background and I remember once in college someone telling me my parents CANNOT be Africans since I was “light-skinded.” According to this person, all Africans are dark like “Amistad.”

    So I make it a point not to judge others by what they choose to define themselves. I’m black but some folks have said I should describe myself more as an “African-American.” I never said I’m not African-American but when you see me, you definitely can’t call me “white,” so thus, I’m black.

  19. maia wrote:

    wow. okay maybe i missed something. i am a dark-skinned black woman with a biracial baby, and it never (for a second) occurred to me that soledad could pass for white. i still dont see it. i have been watching cnn for years and from the first time i saw her, i thought, lightskinned black woman. maybe latina. (with a first name like soledad) obviously with the last name o’brien some irish roots as well. thats it. i assumed (and still do) that her privilege is the privilege of colorism, not whiteness. really? she passes for white nowadays? i guess whiteness is a much more forgiving and embracing category than i had previously realized.
    the funny thing is, latoya, your great aunt josephine looks black to me as well. i never would have assumed that she could have passed for anything but. granted it is a black and white foto, but still. i have a crew of family members who are ‘bright’ and because there was never a discussion of whether or not they were ‘black’, i think from a young age my category for ‘black’ has always been larger than the average white person.
    i remember in another post a couple of weeks ago, the author writing about always looking for the ‘color’ in folks in the media and in strangers. i think that i do this too. it makes me feel like i am warmly blanketed in poc. i guess learned to do this because i grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
    i think about this alot having a biracial kid that looks more bright than dark.
    but you know i have met a handful of poc who talk about passing as white and i wonder about the supposed white folk’s eyesight or intelligence. like my husbands white family likes to hint how my kid can pass for white. even though there are plenty of folks in family who are brighter than her and have never ‘passed’ a day in their life. i kinda think what my husbands family is saying is: it is easier to just pretend that she is white (especially if she is brought up in white culture) than deal with the complexity of her racial identity and thus, ours.
    maybe that is what soledad ‘passing’ means as well.

    Mod Note – The author of the piece is Danielle (the Black Snob), not me. I thought her aunt looked black too, but that’s just going off one photo. – LDP

  20. Clnmike wrote:

    My policy is whatever you want to call your self Im with it as long as you got it.

    You shouldnt have to choose, but at the same time I can understand the feeling that some one is “flip flopping” when it is to there benifit.

    But how other people of color relate to you is another story.

    “Is the problem that O’Brien isn’t seen as a “real” black woman? That she couldn’t have had endured a “real” black woman struggle because she is so light?”

    Im mean seriously though who believes that she had to go through the same trials that a darker skinned black woman would have had to go through?

    My younger brother is half British white, raised in the UK, and is bright as all out doors, but he is my brother.

    At the same time im not fooling my self into thinking that we are having the same experiences in life.

    My only beef with Soledad is that lousy CNN Black in America piece.

  21. frau sally benz wrote:

    I, too, think this is an incredible piece. Very thoughtful, indeed. (The only thing I would disagree with is Obama’s “blackness” not being questioned- I see and hear it questioned all the time.)

    My take on it is that people become so incredibly uncomfortable when they can’t tell your background just by looking at you. Then you end up having your identity challenged and outright attacked, which is quite sad. Nobody knows how much struggle you have or have not gone through just because of what you look like.

    I think it’s important for figures like O’Brien, Obama, and others to reiterate that they are mixed race.

    Also, I really hate the “one-drop-rule” almost as much as I hate people claiming they are “pure.” In reality, the number of people of mixed race is much larger than many tend to think. Just one or two generations back is all a lot of people need to find a “drop” no matter how pure they claim to be.

  22. browne wrote:

    I truly think with Soledad people may use race in regards to not liking her, but I think it’s her inauthenticity people have issues with. It’s something that’s difficult to articulate and I think even if she were married to a black man, even if she were darker, even if she had dreads, she would still be inauthentic.

    Possibly her appearance makes people judge her on that level quicker (actually I’m certain it does), but I think even if she didn’t look the way she looked eventually people would have issues with her, because she’s not a good reporter.

    Lots of successful black women writers, reporters and artists are married to white men, so I don’t think it’s that.

    A reporter needs to have a broad understanding of the world around them and how do you manage to be a woman and biracial and still mange to be as clueless as she is. She’s a talking head hack and unfortunately many people don’t get why they don’t like her, so they go for the easy and the obvious.

    But I think it’s just something about the inside of her that people don’t like and opportunist like quality and you don’t have to do that.

    Lisa Ling doesn’t, Farai Chideya doesn’t and yet Soledad does this and she’s not even that successful, so when is she going to figure it out and stop being a puppet for the machine.

    Her doing that show is sad, because a Katie Couric or a Tom Brokaw could have probably done just as good of a job. She just got to do that show because she was of African descent and that’s sad, that’s truly sad, if that’s what CNN thinks diversity is well I don’t want it.

  23. Lyonside wrote:

    >Although Tiger’s claims himself as Cablanasian(?), he’s still generally seen as a Black golfer.

    As one who does not pass either, I’m hanging back. But that misquote gets me every time. Woods said on Oprah that AS A CHILD he made up the term “Cablanasian.” He doesn’t use that as an adult or put it on any forms. From what I’ve read, he identifies as multiethnic/multiracial/whatever, and feels strong ties to his mother’s Thai culture.

  24. Cara wrote:

    wow, it’s like she can’t win for losing! ppl should lay off Soledad….like the authour stated above. i know and knowof many light skinned blacks who could pass for white but didn’t! I thnk a lot of the comments on the original post steem from darker blacks’ suspicion of lighter blacks. The light/dark Black prejudice is not unilateral. Speaking for myself…I’m light but not that light….I too have seem and experience some hatred from my darker sisters taht wasn’t warranted. It just steems from years of hurt and rejection they’ve experienced.

    My grandfather (A Red-Boned…”high yellow” and I use that term loosely….Mostly Native American (3/4) Black Man (1/4)) also found the prettiest dark brown skinned girld he could find and married her! They had kids with varied complexions and he suffered because of his family’s feelings towards his choice for a wife. He was rejected by his tribe and his family; and never returned to his tribe. ….But he had 10 children withmy grandmother and they had a good life together. They raised their children as “black.” But we are just as much Native American as we are Black. They are not mutually exclusive terms.

    Why does she need to “explain”/down play her white heritage; or contantly mention her black heritage order for ppl to get over the way she looks?!

  25. mGa wrote:

    Hello everyone!

    I’ve been following Racialicious for a long time now, but this will be my first post. For me, this post links to a deeper and more important question: When will the finger pointing end? When will racial prejudices (on the scale that they exist now) be an item of the past?

    I doubt that these issues will ever fully be resolved, because it’s human nature to be weary of what is different from you. But there is still A LOT of room for improvement, especially in the US. Which brings me to my point:

    Who is going to lead us to the future? One where Carmen and Latoya can sit back and take a break from schooling a society that is so racially ignorant? The answer is interracial folk. They are the ones who truly see both sides of the picture. They are the ones who will be more likely to date interracially, refuse normal prejudices, and bridge the gaps that exist between the many cultures living in the US today. It’s simple mathematics, y’all.

    So while I can’t comment on this documentary because I haven’t seen it yet, and I agree that Solede’s reporting isn’t top notch, I do say GO FOR IT GIRL. And anyone that is hating on her for “choosing the convenient side” should remember that you’re preventing progress from happening with that kind of attitude. Not letting Solede into “your club”, whether it’s the Irish one or the Black one, is just putting up the same useless barriers that we’re all trying to fight in the first place. Notice how Solede refers to her upbringing as “black”, yet she married a white guy, and has trouble sticking to one side of the racial fence. THAT’S what I’m talking about. It’s not because she doesn’t have loyalty, it’s because she doesn’t have all of the answers! That’s were interracial people will take us, if you’d just sit back and let them.

  26. Paul wrote:

    Katie Couric could do better? She who has benefitted from being perky and cute, yet now decries such sexist attitudes because they rob her of gravitas? She’s a weather girl who got lucky, not a journalist. Maybe Amy Goodman could do a decent job on this or someone else who actually has a brain.

  27. The Black Snob wrote:

    My Aunt Josie thought she looked black too. But considering the good white folk of Junction City, KS were prepared to arrest her dark-skinned husband until she produced proof that she was, in fact, a Negro too, sort of indicates that people have a notion of what “black” is supposed to look like and much like the incident at the hospital, white people had decided that my aunt and her family did not look black.

  28. mGa wrote:

    Woops, missed part of my conclusion.

    Solede is exhibiting a brand of open-mindedness that many of us could benefit from.

    Have the rules of blackness changed?

    I’m sorry, but to even say there are rules of blackness is three steps backwards. There shouldn’t freaking be rules!

    But if you look white but call yourself black, what are you?

    You’re the future! How can you ask this question and expect anything to change?

    Sorry if this was convoluted and/or incoherent.. but I hope people see what I am saying here. Feedback greatly appreciated.

  29. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Clnmike –

    Im mean seriously though who believes that she had to go through the same trials that a darker skinned black woman would have had to go through?

    No, but many black women also cannot say the same. If you look at my photo, Wendi’s photo, and AJ’s photo on our site, we all identify as black women but we all have different complexions (and features and hair textures). We all probably have had different experiences with colorism, and the world treats us differently because of it.

    I think that your comment speaks to how many black experiences there really are.

    @mGa –

    Welcome. Glad to see you joining the conversation. But ooooh-weee:

    The answer is interracial folk. They are the ones who truly see both sides of the picture. They are the ones who will be more likely to date interracially, refuse normal prejudices, and bridge the gaps that exist between the many cultures living in the US today.

    Carmen would have a field day with that one. She’s shown me sites I never thought existed, including a multiracial supremacist and a site for mixed folks who wanted to fully transition into white. Obviously, not all mixed folk think this way, just like not all black people give a damn about racial advancement. It really comes down to the individual.

  30. Jen* wrote:

    I never knew Soledad’s background until BiA came up. A coworker of mine said he felt as though they should have gotten someone else to do the special, and after I watched, I felt similarly. Perhaps this is my own issue of colorism, which I was unaware had affected me so deeply – being mixed, myself.

    I don’t know if it was her effort to be impersonal/objective about race/being black when she talked about it, or what. Something put me off, and it was specific to the BiA special.

    I have no problem with however she identifies, but think that maybe a sharp dichotomy seemed to arise in her interviews on the special. It didn’t seem as though she identified with the people she was showcasing. Even her interview about the piece was strongly objective.

    I suppose that objectivity is appropriate in journalism, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

  31. Izzy wrote:

    [Mod Note - Yes, please take that line out. That definition of whiteness is complicated and debatable. Best if we leave that one alone as well. I want to keep the focus of this thread on Ms. O'Brien.

    if we aren't dabbling in theory, then we need to acknowledge that racial classifications, SHOULD be an autonomous choice, but in this society it simply isn't. Identities are a mixture of choice and imposition. That's totally fine. Feel free to expand on that point. Therefore the idea that Soledad is the sole authority on her blackness seems to conflict with the idea of a group identity. Also, something interesting to explore. Feel free to pose that question.

    The gender analogy doesn't work here because Soledad has the background to back it up, in a way that anyone but an intersexed individual would find it difficult to do in the gender realm.

    In line with this site's stated goals, mission - and founder - it is an invalid argument here. Feel free to argue that point elsewhere - I believe the Black Snob's blog (you can follow the link at the top) tackled the question in the comments section. But here, due to past issues and present goals, it will not fly.

    I may not personally care for it, but I certainly am not bothered by people calling themselves what they want. I simply don't see a problem with questioning it either. But many do. And here, specifically in this space, we are changing how we approach multiracial issues in a multi-racial multi-ethnic space. This is covered in tomorrow's editor's letter - you just happened to bump up against it earlier than I anticipated. Any more questions, feel free to drop an email to team@racialicious.com - LDP]

  32. Anonymous wrote:

    @Jaye
    I couldn’t AGREE with you more. I would have preferred Lisa Ling over Soledad any do to dissect the perplexities of Being Black in America.

  33. browne wrote:

    The question is this should we give Soledad a pass because she’s a person of color? Should we just be happy that she is just up there, is that a “win” for us?

    I’m of the school of thought of no we shouldn’t. I don’t care if a person of color is never seen on TV or movies again if her mindset is what they are looking for. My issue with media has absolutely nothing to do with if the people on the screen match me ethnically or not.

    Just being a person of color isn’t good enough anymore. Just being a woman isn’t good enough anymore. It’s 2008, we deserve better than that. The American people deserve better than that.

    I’d take a conscious white southern man over a clue woman of color any day of the week.

    I’m open minded and to me if you’re in that high of a position, I’m going to judge you just as would a white person doing the same thing.

    If she were white I would say exactly the same thing.

    I would call her a hack reporter.

    And I think objectivity in American media is misinterpreted. I think the American media thinks objective means ignorant and it doesn’t mean that you can still use your common sense.

    Keep in mind I haven’t seen the show and do not plan on watching it, because I’m not sure she could have gained any additional IQ points since the last time I saw her on air. And the blogosphere speaks volumes on this.

    Maybe I’ll watch a snippet tonight if it’s online.

  34. A.J. wrote:

    For a fact, if everything about Tiger Woods stayed the same– save he had a Thai last name– people would not be calling him African American.

    They would suddenly, very publicly, acknowledge his multu-ethnicity.

  35. livininphilly wrote:

    Such an interesting article & as usual the comments really get me thinking:

    @maia- I totally agree with you. I never looked at Soledad O’Brien and thought, “there’s a white woman.” I always thought of her as a woman of color. I thought latina mainly b/c of her name as well. But if her name had been a less readily identifible with a particular culture I would’ve still guessed biracial.

    It’s interesting that this peice also doesn’t deal with the fact that she is a Latina. I mean, when did she become african american if her mother is Afro-cuban? That is a heritage and experience from her mother that is distinct from the US based context as well. I do understand that Soledad herself grew up in the US but she still carries that particular heritage.
    I had also not seen a picture of her children before now. i think it’s very important that she is instilling in her children the fact that they are multiracial because that’s what they are! I wonder though how her children will deal with this issue. There is no way to know how she raises her children but from her comments it seems as if she has put a lot of thought into how to raise them which I applaud.

    @mGa- wow… just wow! I was all with you until
    “The answer is interracial folk. They are the ones who truly see both sides of the picture. They are the ones who will be more likely to date interracially, refuse normal prejudices, and bridge the gaps that exist between the many cultures living in the US today.”
    This is also a very, very problematic stance to take. I agree that humanity itself is becoming more and more “mixed” but there are still a lot of people who resist. Your arguement also leads me to think that in this envisioned future there is no room for people who may not be interracial. That is as scary as white supremacy and leads me down a path that makes me equally weary.

    I agree that BiA was not handled the way that it should’ve been. I only saw the black man episode (so I will not comment on the black woman) but I did feel as if a lot of teh program actually reinforced several stereotypes and was terribly predictable. The final question & handling of the answer was so painful I cringed RE: “could Micheal Eric Dyson have recieved preferential treatment b/c of his skin color over his brother (darker and serving a life term)?” It was almost as if they didn’t quite want to fully deal with it and instead ended with a soundbyte of Soledad saying “but there are plenty of darker black children who succeed.” OMFG, sooooo soooo terrible I screamed at the TV b/c it was so wrong and made me feel icky b/c the truth of the matter is that there is a huge amount of colorism among black folk and society at larger.

    Finally (I promise i’ll be done after this!) Would we have been calling Soledad a sell out if she had acted with a familiarity with the people that she interviewed? In other words would it have been more acceptable for her to “act black” when speaking about what it means to be black in America? As a reporter she probably felt huge pressure to NOT do that precisely b/c it would’ve been expected.
    whew! done!!

  36. Tariq Nelson wrote:

    Personally I found the attacks on Soledad to be appalling and they say more about the people making them than about Soledad.

    I have to agree with Jenn in comment #2. Ultimately, she is being attacked (by some) because of the race of her husband. I don’t think that she would be attacked by these people had her husband been (a dark skinned) black man.

    On the other hand, if Barack were married to a white (or other non-black) woman he would not have the credibility that he has now in much of the black community. I even wonder at times if he’d be the nominee right now.

  37. livininphilly wrote:

    wait! one final thing I promise:

    I wholeheartedly disagree that the one-drop rule doesn’t exist. Its still very much in play, especially if the person acknowledges thier black heritage.

  38. Jasmine wrote:

    “But if you look white but call yourself black, what are you?’

    It doesn’t matter if you look white – you’re still conscious of your blackness! If you’re raised black and told by your parents that you’re black, it really doesn’t matter that to some people in the world you look white. *You* know who you are — Soledad knows who she is. Skin color and hair type aren’t always telling signs of a person’s background; upbringing and life experiences play a role too.

  39. drea wrote:

    I agree with the commenter who said that her “black” box was much larger than her “white” box. Of course this is heavily influenced by me being born and raised in America and accepting the one-drop rule. I’m conflicted when it comes to the idea of erasing the labels though. I feel like that would also erase the idea of community, which I think could be devastating.

  40. The Black Snob wrote:

    @ livininphilly: I think a lot of Americans struggle with the concept of Latino, wanting to separate it out as a race over an ethnicity. I didn’t go into that facet of it (largely because of the nature of the debate), but there is this annoying “otherness” that hovers in the room when dealing with who is and isn’t black by definition in Latin American cultures. The US has its rules, but I know that these same rules do not apply in other parts of the Americas. Hence why the issue was taken off the table by some criticizing O’Brien who chose to target her claim of “blackness.”

  41. Margari Aziza wrote:

    Chiming in from over in Egypt, without actually even watching the program, may not be very useful. I don’t have any hostility towards Soledad O’Brien, I don’t see her choice in a life partner as a sign of her sell out status. But at the same time, she can deploy all her multiple identities, as bi-racial, multi-racial, latina, Black, etc. But the distinction between her and I is that I have only one, primary and apparent identity. To me, it kinda reminds me of Egypt which claims a Western, Mediterranean, Arab, and African identity. If you deny Egypt is in Africa, you’d have to be geographically challenged, but at the same time its clear that Egypt hasn’t really thrown its lot in with sub-Saharan Africa. The debate goes on and on about what does it mean to be African? What does it mean to be Black? I guess it is more than just labels and identity. I’ll have more, but I have somebody over my shoulder waiting for me to get off the computer. Sigh….third world internet.

  42. soledad wrote:

    Hate or like our doc–or my reporting–your discussion is pathetic. I’m black and latina. My father is white and australian. My mother is black and cuban. I’ve always been the same thing–just nobody cared when I was reporting from Cyprus or thailand. My parents (who were not allowed to marry when they came to this country in 1958 because interacial marriage was illegal) made it very clear to me: don’t let people tell you you’re not black. Don’t let people tell you you’re not cuban. Here’s what’s troubling about your posts–you’re so busy sorting people into categories, you’re missing the greater picture: schools are failing black and brown (and poor kids). A pathetic percentage of black boys graduate. Black and Hispanic women aren’t included in medical trials, so we don’t know WHAT treatments actually benefit us. Gazing at pictures of my children while you try to determine how you plan to judge them in the future is not only idiotic–it’s a waste of time.

  43. A. wrote:

    I hate when people use the one-drop rule to their advantage when they’re trying to make a racial point, but otherwise, want nothing to do with us “Negroes.”

  44. Black Politics wrote:

    Excellent post and quite thought-provoking. It always frustrates me when you have to prove your blackness… Identity is as much mental as it is physical. To me, how you think, behave and believe is as instructive as how you look. Besides, anything else is to give in to stereotypes of how blacks are “supposed” to look, act and behave. That is ridiculous. I know blacks that are nearly white as a sheet but they identify as black. Don’t even get me started on “acting” black. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of .

  45. timarasa wrote:

    fantastic post! another reason for me to love this site :o ) i don’t comment often (i prefer to read and absorb) and this is off-topic, but i was slightly perplexed by the use of the word “bright” to describe skin tone in the post and a couple of the comments. maybe it was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek (i.e. exaggerating positive word associations/connotations like with “white”)…or maybe i’m just reading too much into it. either way, i hope the word “deep” makes a comeback for dark skin tones…i always thought it had a nice ring to it :o )

  46. C-Marsh wrote:

    This is just kind of a ramble of thoughts, but please bear with me.

    I think it is interesting to look at the spouse of a PoC in question and see how the race of the spouse either authenticates or undermines a person’s status as a PoC. Would we question Soledad’s credibility if her spouse were black? Can a comparison be made between Soledad and the Assistant Superintendant whose family was showcased on the Black Man segment in BIA?

    This family was presented as an affluent and authentic black family, but it seemed that CNN was justifying their blackness from their introduction. The portrayal of this particular segment seemed suspicious to me. The family was introduced through their father who was one of the first Blacks to attend Central High in Little Rock, Arkansas, but their upbringing became really white really quickly. There was even some mention that the father had been accused for acting white because his kids were Eagle Scouts. Then it is revealed that two of his sons were dated/married white women. As much as I hate the notion of “acting” like a race, I can’t even lie. When I first heard that about the white spouses, I questioned whether or not they were “authentic blacks.” Being someone who was always accused of “acting white” I don’t particularly like that phrase; however, I think that I questioned the amount of exposure to other cultures (besides white) that this family had rather than whether or not they were “authentic blacks” (I didn’t watch the whole segment, so I may have missed some things). Although the father was among the first blacks to attend Central High, it seemed as if his family demonstrated the white/black flight tendency. It was made clear that the decision for the family to move was because of the level of violence in their previous neighborhood, but it appeared to me that they decided to build a house in one of the whitest and riches suburbs. Admittedly, I am not familiar with the demographics of Little Rock, but I would have liked to see the family move to a more diverse neighborhood.

    I write all this to ask three things.

    1. Do you all think that the family’s exposure to other cultures would have come into question if the two sons married/dated other PoCs?
    2. Was I the only one who felt a little suspicious about this family’s cultural exposure?
    3. Would we prefer a PoC who can pass, but acknowledge and embraces his/her ethnic culture(s) and presumably educates his/her white looking children about their culture (i.e. Soledad) or a PoC who was a pioneer during the civil rights movement and marries another PoC, but goes to hide in the white suburbs losing contact with other cultures and fades into white America (i.e. Butch, the Superintendent)?

  47. Chairo wrote:

    Every now and then I’ll have a moment when I stop and think about how ridiculous it is that people actually refer to people as brown as me and with my features “black”. I know what black looks like and I”m quite far away from there.
    If it was simply about the colour of my skin then certain South Asians should be referred as black; heck some would be “blacker” than I am but with straight hair.

    The american “black” spectrum which has really “light skinned” people on one side, rihianna in the middle and gabrielle union on the other side is problematic
    Common sense should inform us who is of a historically persecuted group; the right nomenclature would have to develop. If i see a group of meditterneans and i was trying to indicate to a friend who I wanted him to focus on, i would mention the color of their skin; “the light Mediterranean guy”
    which i think is better than “the italian looking dude”
    I think also relying to heavily on what a person looks like as an anchor for a conversation can be problematic in itself. We’ve all had those “but where are you from really” moments. A carribean friend called a turkish friend of mine “exotic looking” which led to an awkward exchange of words.

    I mean right now the term “black” evidently isn’t working as well as other racial terms for other groups.
    As Latoya said, all the POC female contributors women have experienced different issues regarding colorism; but something about referring to them all as black rubs me real wrong.
    It feels lazy and in some ways defeatist in the face of the one drop rule. I’m not forcing anyone to do anything just hoping in the future things change and no one is referred as white or black.

    I’m a dark brown son of west africans, on either side of my family my great-grand mothers were as light as Spanish people
    My half brother is far darker than I am, and sometimes I often wonder if there is a long term benefit of calling us both black when we’re clearly brown.

  48. Chairo wrote:

    ok when i said “lazy” i didn’t mean the individuals themselves saying they’re “black”
    more the way the “black community” and the wider community OKs that
    Completely leaves whites out of the equation

  49. Kandee wrote:

    It sounds to me like there are a lot of hurt feelings that stem from who in the ‘black’ pool are more readily accepted by society and those who, by no fault of their own, are instantly rejected because of their obvious ‘blackness’. That hurt has made it hard for bi-racial and multi-racial people to identify as such without being seen by some as traitors. But it’s no fault of their own either. The one-drop rule forces people to choose sides. It also preserves the concept of whiteness as ‘pure’ and untouched by ‘others’, which is a big part of racism and white supremacy. This is a very good example of how the rule is still alive and well. Let the woman choose how she wants to live her life. If she’s racist, call her on that. If she’s not loyal in the ways that you want her to be, call yourself on that.

  50. Jas wrote:

    First time I saw Soledad O’Brien I thought she was white. Once I learned her name I figured she was just a Latina married to a white guy. I didn’t even know she was part black until the other day. Honestly I think people have the right to call themselves what they want. I just hate when people use their racial mix-up when it works to their advantage and then downplay it when it doesn’t. I’m not sure if O’Brien has done this because I didn’t watch her segment and from what I’ve heard I honestly don’t care too.

    But ya I know there can be a lot of suspicions of individuals who are part black but can pass for another race/ethnicity. I’m guilty of having those suspicions myself more often than not when I do interact with lighter blacks. I’m a work in progress I guess: /

    And I agree she probably wouldnt’ have caught as much flack if she was married to a black guy and had kids who at least looked somewhat black regardless of her segment just like Obama probably would not have done as well in the black community if he had married a white woman. Unfortunate but the color complex has never been simple and IMO it’s just as strong as ever.

  51. waksik wrote:

    I am an American Indian woman with a grandfather from the Mediterranean. The Mediterranean genes seem to be the dominant so I look white. However, that side of my family was not active in my life and all I know is my American Indian side. I grew up as a part of my tribal community and participate in our traditional events.

    When I go outside of my community, I am seen as a White Woman. I am aware that my appearance has been advantageous in terms of how I was treated in school, employment and just in everyday life. I struggle with my own privilege.

    While my own community would call me an AI, other Indians or non-Indians just meeting me would not. Its very hard to have your own perception of yourself not match the perceptions of others. And when it comes to something as central to your being as your cultural identity, it can be very hurtful.

    That said, I too can be skeptical of white looking folks claiming POC status. Yes, there are often times where folks will claim up on a heritage when they have no knowledge or real interest in, simply because its advantageous for them at that moment. But, appearence isn’t everything. I’m not about to tell Soledad O’Brien that she isn’t Black just because she doesn’t meet some people’s preconceived notions on what a black person “should look like”.

    This is my first post on this site (I’ve been following Racialicious for sometime) and I’ve re-read it several times hoping that it makes sense. If it doesn’t I’ll gladly clarify. Thanks for posting this article for us!

  52. G. K. wrote:

    @ black politics

    I totally disagree—there IS a such thing as “acting black” and “acting white”, but that has more to do with how people are brought up and who/what they are exposed to culturally as well as the environment they came up in. Just because there are such things, however, does NOT mean that you are only supposed to act/like/be/do certain things ONLY because you are black/white/Asian/Latino/Native Am. Even though those stereotypes exist, you don’t have to let them completely define who you are. As a rock ‘n roll foreign film-loving black women, I’ve definitely defied a few stereotypes in my time, and I will happily continue to do so.

    About Ms. O’Brien—I haven’t seen her enough on tv to judge her reporting, and I have yet to see “Black In America” (I don’t have cable) but yeah, it seems like people are hating on her because they feel that she didn’t connect more with the subject and also because her spouse is white. So she can’t relate to the people she was interviewing—since when is that a crime? Who cares? Obviously she’s proud of her black heritage, or she could have just passed and never said a damn thing about it,period. Also,was she just the host or did she have a hand in getting it produced,or what? If the series was as awful as people on here say it was, and she had nothing to do with how it was created, then it isn’t entirely her fault, so why should she take all the blame? I’m like this—the woman percieves herself as black, she’s proud to be black, what more could black folks possibly want? She’s as back as she’s gonna get—plain & simple. I am so tired of this “splitting hairs” nonsense when it comes to deciding who’s black enough to be black and who ain’t.

    And yeah, Obama’s blackness HAS been questioned literally from day one–even to this day, he’s never been left off the hook for that at all.

  53. NancyP wrote:

    If a blue-eyed blonde straight-haired Scandinavian-looking person says that zie is black, I want to hear a sincere tone of voice and a sensible reason, for example, loyalty to a favorite member of the family, or adoption by black stepparent. Otherwise I am likely to dismiss the claim as one of those idiotic attempts at humor made by racist college students: “Hey, I’m black! I guess I don’t need to study hard.” (Yes, I have known such twits, they are legion, and not exactly amenable to correction).

    Other than that, I don’t think about such statements of identity – I assume the person making the statement means it.

  54. RainaWeather wrote:

    Since race is just some made up bull shit anyway ,yes, you can look White and call yourself Black. Even though others may not automatically think black when they see you, if you feel Black then I would say you are Black. Although I don’t see what all the fuss is about Soledad, she looks Black to me. It’s not like she’s pale with blond hair and blue eyes.

  55. Jess wrote:

    Hm. This piece made me think about my own experience. My mother is half-Japanese and my sister is blonde and blue-eyed. (People used to ask if she was adopted).

    And yet when I identify at all it’s more Jewish if I am pressed, even though my family isn’t religious. And I often say I am from a multi-ethnic background but I get so tired of telling people about it because it’s just too damn long a story. I’ve been mistaken for Latino (because I speak Spanish well enough if no one listens carefully — seems to fool Chileans for some reason). I’ve been called all sorts of weird stuff in Europe, usually, but as long as I don’t open my mouth I can “pass” anywhere.

    (As an aside, Europeans seem more attuned to differences between otherwise similar-looking [to Americans] people. I mean, can you tell the difference between a Serb and a Croat? I can’t).

    My Japanese relatives were really nice to me, but in Japan when other (Japanese) people found out I speak some of the language they seemed to think I was some kind of a) weird creature — “hey, he can use chopsticks! He can speak!” or b) were all wondering why I didn’t “know” everything about the culture already and how to get around. “Your obaa-san is Japanese, didn’t she tell you?” Um, no, she lived in Westchester, sorry.

    Viz. O’Brien I can identify with someone who self-identifies as “white.” Lord knows I do, mostly because it’s just easier. I used to think about it sometimes, but generally I check “other” on the forms and don’t bring it up unless someone is really interested. Or I’m making jokes, the whole story is a hoot sometimes.

    I haven’t asked her about it so I am speculating, but I can see a kid who is light enough to look Italian or Latina or whatever just deciding not to get into it with people ‘cuz it’s just tiring. “You don’t look ___ ” is really annoying.

    This of course has all kinds of implications for privilege and I understand that I have a lot of them b/c a cop isn’t going to shoot me, for example, when I reach for my wallet.

    So while I can have my differences with her reporting, and I don’t necessarily agree with her analysis (if one can call it that) I understand, I think, sort of where she is coming from.

  56. sfsinger wrote:

    Let’s just remember the one drop rule was a way for those who profited from enslaving people to maintain the status quo and deny property and inheritance rights to those selected offspring. And appearance is not a strong enough indicator of percentage of genetic markings. The issue I have with Soledad producing the special is that it was imbalanced and supports the meme of Black inferiority aka Being A Black Woman Really Sucks. I found it interesting that someone mentioned Lisa Ling. She would have done a much better job at producing the special, but CNN wasn’t interested in an accurate portrayal anyway. It was to reassure white people that black people have problems. Lots of problems.

  57. Chairo wrote:

    @rainweather

    I think the problem here is with how people perceive “black”
    I think what shows how futile this term is, is how much people will argue over its usage.
    No group out there has the authority to apply the label to who they see fit, or dont see fit; if you can initially think soledad is “latino” learn she has “black” ancestry and then reconsider your initially position then you’ve obviously failed your “black identification” test to which there is no real way of passing.

    To you maybe she does indeed look “black” to me when i first saw her I thought she was white, then i looked closer I began to think she was probably mixed-race. low and behold she is mixed. To me calling her “black” feels almost humorous . And yes I understand completely that race is a social construction but in order for this system you seem to espouse to really work, everyone should be able to be able to call themselves black; unless it becomes this club that an already ambigious group of somewhat brown people control
    Not every brown experience of the USA is the same.

  58. rhian wrote:

    Prologue: I’m a frequently white-passing (or otherwise “ambiguous”) PoC-identified white/south asian multiracial woman. I straddle a lot of lines, racial and otherwise, and it’s important to me to straddle them.

    So first there’s self-identity. As much as I honestly do appreciate the sentiment being expressed here that people can identify however they choose and all will be well, in my experience that’s just not the case. My self-identity as multiracial, which is pretty strong, is virtually meaningless to everyone else because they put me wherever they want me.

    How I am perceived, on the other hand, has everything to do with how I function in the world. No one’s checking in with me to see how I would like to identify before I’m mentally categorized. For me personally, this means that I get a lot of white privilege; I’m extremely aware of that. Yet on the other hand I feel as though I’m constantly trying to prove myself as south asian “enough” to other south asians, even within my own family. It’s pretty much a constant battle, to try to be in two communities that think of themselves as mutually exclusive.

    I generally agree with the author–”in America you are what you look like.” But I’m not about to ignore half of my heritage just because most people don’t see it when they look at my face. Apparently Soledad O’Brien isn’t either.

  59. Katie wrote:

    I’m noticing that some commenters are positing this sleazy, opportunistic mixed person as if this stereotype is the norm.

    Many mixed people I know, myself included, tend to “out” themselves at times when it is NOT convenient, NOT welcome, etc., because to do otherwise would be counter to our principles. For example, when white Jews makes the assumption that I am not Jewish, I correct them. When Koreans or Korean Americans make the assumption that I am not Korean American, I correct them there as well. I do not sit around letting people put me in the box that is most convenient for me, and the mixed people I know don’t either.

  60. Marcus Kwame wrote:

    This was a great post that raises great questions. As far as I’m concerned Soledad O’Brien is definitely black. Who is it that designates certain people as “race police” who get to define another’s race for them? To thine own self be true. She’s a sister.

  61. Yashieka wrote:

    I have a niece who’s bi-racial, she’s White, Black, Indian, and Asian. I tell her all the time, you’re not Black, you’re Black, White, Indian, and Asian. I explain to her if you were to say you’re only Black, that would mean you’re not acknowleging your entire make up. I dare anyone to tell her different. I’ve had arguments with her teachers about classifying her as Black on her state tests. DO NOT PUT HER IN A BOX! I’m not saying she shouldn’t be proud of her Black Heritage, I’m just saying it’s only part of who she is…Anyway…

    I’m still trying to trying to figure out who I need to speak to about me being “Black” enough?

  62. Kmoney wrote:

    Fantastic post. You’re asking the right questions!!!

  63. Princess wrote:

    Although I’ve only seen online clips of the CNN BIA special, I don’t think it’s beneficial to anyone to attack Mrs. Obrien, her racial identity, choice of a marriage partner or family.

    Two of my grandparents were very fair complexioned, yet refused to discuss the details, and my mom says it’s because some were caucasion and multi-racial.

    I have four bi and/or multi-racial nephews and three nieces also of this very rich heritage. Although some may experience “privilege”, I pray that they become well educated, tap into their gifts and talents and grow spiritually. I hope they will “pass” for all that they are and not allow anyone or anything to box them in.

    Mrs. Obrien is a Sistah, a career woman, a wife, mother, daughter and more. I’m glad we are all unique, yet all part of the human race.

    By the way I’m a brown skinned sistah, almond toned in the winter and darker in the summer from sweet kisses from the sun. I have been disliked by various races and some have claimed I’m not “black enough”. Go figure…

  64. Korolev wrote:

    You see, it’s rather difficult to assign labels to mixed people…. actually, it’s not – mixed people are mixed people.

    This sort of thing just high-lights the fact that its just better to call ourselves human and be done with it. I know that not how society views mixed people, but that’s how it should be done. Being black, white, asian, etc – doesn’t REALLY matter outside social conditions. Biologically, it’s insignificant.

    It’s tricky, though. Is someone black because their ancestor is black? If so, everyone is black, since all of humanity originated in Africa and then split off elsewhere, as any sensible anthropologist/geneticist will tell you. If you go by ancestry, then techically, EVERYONE is black, because everyone has a black ancestor (if you go back far enough).

    If people assign race based on appearances, then that’s just one more reason why the concept of race is unimportant. If someone can be called “black” even though half their DNA came from a parent who isn’t black, then doesn’t that really prove that these labels are biologically insignificant? I think it does. And if it’s biologically insignificant, I don’t think it’s something to get hung up on.

    I’m a human being. I have a human brain. I have human organs. I have human DNA. People really shouldn’t let their ethnicity play such a large part in their identity. I know that society sort of forces it on people, but everyone needs to take a stand and say “I am human, you are human, we’re all human”. Yes, I’m a fervent believer in the “one-species” concept, because it is biologically sound. We’re all human.

    And yes, if it is possible, I would advocate a one-state world. Just because people live in another country, just because they have a different skin color, doesn’t make them any less human. They’re still my species, to me. All human beings are “my” people. All human culture, all human history belongs to all of us.

    I know that society tries to force us to view others through the lens of race. That doesn’t mean we should accept it. If I let other people define my ethnicity by what they thought it was, I’d be changing it every damn day. But I DECIDE my ethnicity, based on the ethnicity of my parents. In this case, one is Chinese, one is Caucasian, thus the only logical conclusion is this: I am chinese/caucasian. I am not caucasian, I am not chinese, I am somewhere in between. I’m not even both – I fit into the category of mixed. I know that my ethnicity is really insignificant in terms of my humanity, but ethnicity, despite being insignificant, still exists, and “mixed” is the only label that can logically apply.

    But at the end of the day, ethnicity shouldn’t matter. Culturally “loyalty” is a myth. There’s only one thing to be loyal to – other people. Be good, be kind, be nice to other human beings, be an upstanding citizen. That’s it.

    If someone wants to call themselves black, there’s no harm in it. If someone wants to call themselves biracial, then that’s fine too, because at the end of the day, it’s merely social labels, something which exists only in the psychology of the populace. And such things can (and do) change.

  65. Korolev wrote:

    In a nutshell – ethnicity exists. Yes. But it doesn’t deserve to be thought of as an important factor in judging a person, because we are all human. Ethnicity is like your star-sign – it should be thought of as being irrelevant.

    I dream of a world where all nations are united, where all humans share the planet equally, where all of humanity is united for one single purpose – the advancement and well-being of the human species, the planet, and the continual strive to explore and invent and create. We all live on the same damn planet. It’s time we acted like it.

  66. Lyonside wrote:

    Apologies – this is going to go OT fast.

    Korolev: I appreciate where you’re going, but ethnicity is not irrelevant. Maybe the way you see it, or what you think it means, is irrelevant.

    Ethnicity can include language structure and slang and modes of expression, gestures, religious practices, food contents and preparation methods (which can persist even when food types change), social priorities, family structure, gender roles, artistic expressions, literary and folk traditions, attitudes towards medical and personal care, music instrumentation and rhythms, etc.

    Is ethnicity fluid? Yes, often in multiethnic societies and families. People adapt one thing, lose another through inclination or happenstance. But ethnicity expressions persist in various ways depending on the individual and the environment, and they are far from irrelevant in daily life and in how a region, nation, or any organized group expresses themselves. They are often reinvented, sometimes without deliberate thought, but they are still passed on.

    Do they change someone’s worth as a human being? Of course not. But the richness of ethnicities should not be denigrated.

  67. Lyonside wrote:

    Shorter Lyonside: You’re going to have to acknowlege and respect differences in ethnicity if you’re going get to that “world unity” you’re looking for.

  68. Eva wrote:

    I never thought Soledad O’Brien was white, I always saw her as a light skinned black person, kind of like Vanessa Williams.

  69. Glossolalia Black wrote:

    My son is blue eyed, freckled and very pale due to me having a white mother and to him having a white father. He identifies (completely on his own) as AA, and I’m proud of him for doing so.

    When I asked him how it was for him to be able to pass for white so easily, he looked uncomfortable and said, “I get to hear a lot of stuff that darker skin people don’t, and it makes me mad, and when I tell them that my mother is black, they always get ashamed of their racism.” He’s learning a valuable lesson this way. He also gets a fair amount of flack from his black friends, but according to him, they seem to accept his blackness and how he identifies himself.

    It seems to me, from my own experiences as “high yella” girl, that even though black people will give you shit for being mixed, there’s also an acceptance there that simply isn’t in the white community. My son learned that though he could infiltrate and be “accepted”, he doesn’t *want* to based on his own principles.

    It’ll be easier for him, perhaps, to get a job. There are plenty of perks to looking white, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with playing the hand you’re dealt. Some would call that opportunist. I call it taking care of yourself. There’s a risk there of forgetting where you come from, but there’s also due vigilance that helps keep one from sliding into oblivion.

    There are many “white” people in America who aren’t, and most don’t know. You gotta wonder which of their ancestors slid of into “whiteness”, and why.

  70. Diana wrote:

    Unfortunately, because Americans are color-struck, black people, no matter what shade or hue, are bound to experience some challenge to their perceived “blackness” at given time. When you look at me, there is no question that I’m black. Yet my blackness was challenged in my youth, when other kids used to tease me for “talking white” (i.e. using “proper” English). We really need to cure ourselves from this malady and embrace the fact that we are not monolthic. There is no litmus test for being black and forcing one on ourselves is essentially apartheid.

  71. Yvonne wrote:

    [Mod Note - Your comment has been deleted. Please see #8 of our comments policy. - LDP]

  72. cancan wrote:

    I’m with Jaye, Lisa Ling could have done a better job. Soledad may be blk but she is out of touch if she thought that helped the race or even did a decent job.

  73. Black Stocking wrote:

    A large number of “black” people are actually mixed race. Not biracial, as in my dad is x and my mom is y, but going back to the days of slavery mixing (also known as rape, but I digress). Those mixed folks used to marry each other in high numbers, but some like the author’s family (and my mom), started marrying darker folks and so now, when the average “black” couple has a baby, folks stand by w/ curiosity specualting about the color of the little blesssing. Nowadays it seems that being biracial (half-blk-wht) is privileged over being “black.” In some circles, it is cool to biracial, but outdated, so 20th century to be “black.” My husband and I get the “how quaint two blacks married to each other” looks in more liberal circles. I missed my memo from the future that I needed a white husband.

    My mother’s family history is a lot like the author’s. There are members that even passed out of the black race. I for one see “black” as being able to embrace the lightest to the darkest w/ some African ancestry. Some of Negroes always knew that some of us had a white daddy or a Jewish mother or a….

    I think that a lot of this questioning, “am I black or white or biracial” stems from the larger culture moving to a point where the white community did not accept half-black/half-white children, to more acceptance today. White mothers of children of color are refusing to disappear; they are demanding that their children be seen as half-white. And if said kids are light enough too pass, that is pleasing to some. I even know one white mom who encourages her kids to pick their race on a daily basis. Silly, when the kids have black features and get very tan this time of year, putting to rest any ambuguity about what they look like.

    Perhaps we need to bring back “colored” as a category/descriptor. There are many older blacks who hate black (that whole black and ugly thing), and w/ so many mixed children knowadays… I have two nieces, one is half-blk-wht, the other is “black” two parents w/ African ancestry. The girls are the same color (lighter than Soledad) and both have non-brown eyes. Neither look white to me, but nor do they look as black as I do (I’m in the mid range). What are they? Human.

  74. Bree wrote:

    This is my first comment.

    I haven’t seen the documentary, but I never knew Soledad O’Brien was black until I read this post. I assumed she was Latina who married a white man. But I don’t care if she’s black, Latina, Martian, etc.

    I am multi-racial. My father is black, my mother is white. I also have German and Irish ancestry. My features are definitely more black than white.

    I was raised by my white grandparents (my mother’s parents) and at times I felt different because I was the only dark one in the family, I was always accepted. There have been comments made to me by darker skinned women about my lighter skin, and one girl in high school told me I wasn’t black because I “sounded white.” I asked her how was I supposed to sound?

    I’m just going to be me, and those that have issues with me not being “black enough” or “white enough” have the problems, not me. Let me live my life without trying to pick one side of the racial fence.

  75. Tasha wrote:

    Maia : (it is easier to just pretend that she is white especially if she is brought up in white culture) than deal with the complexity of her racial identity

    There seem to be various issues at play. The one that always strikes me is what makes the other person comfortable. It is easier for everyone to pretend that person is mostly like them. Everyone strikes for a commonality which begins with appearance, goes to background/culture/heritage, crosses class/wealth and ends, hopefully, with a connection for the comfort of knowing ‘this person is just like me.’

  76. Ali wrote:

    @Paul – I would LOVE to see Amy Goodman host a special on the black experience in America.

    @Tariq Nelson – I think you make a good point about Barack. I’ve always wondered whether or not issues of perceived credibility may have factored into his choice of a life partner. I really do think he’d be having a much harder time right now, and possibly not even be where he is, if he weren’t married to a black women. I remember what happened to Harold Ford Jr. during his run for senate. I think things would have played out much differently for him had he been able to take advantage of the perceived credibility a black girlfriend/ wife/whatever would have lent him.

    @C-Marsh – I think the ideas you’re questioning are a little more complex than you’re allowing. In my experience it is not possible for a family of color to “hide in the white suburbs.” It’s as awkward for us as it is for them (white people) no matter how it may appear on the outside.

    I am the child of parents who came up poor and struggling during the Civil Rights era and decided to move to an all white upper-middle class suburb with their young kids. They had to make certain cultural sacrifices to make their money situation work. Sometimes these things come down to survival. If you are a struggling, new family with young kids you can’t necessarily afford to live in a more dangerous neighborhood where your property value could take a nose dive at any moment; it doesn’t matter what that area may offer in the way of racial diversity, you just can’t chance it. Sometimes you have to put your financial well being and safety first. Trust me, there is no such thing as running away to the suburbs and escaping your people/problems. It’s more like trading one set of problems for another.

    My parents accepted that in order for their family to make it they had to make some personal sacrifices. Most black families that I know who live in all white suburbs aren’t trying to deny their identity. They are very aware of their outsider status in these neighborhoods. That’s why in a lot of white suburbs you’ll visit most of the families of color all know each other. They have to create their own community within the community at large because they are not fully accepted/ supported. Trust and believe that any black family living in “Stepford territory” knows that when it comes to fighting racial intimidation their kids may face at school, or challenging the way an ill equiped teacher presented to Kill A Mockingbird that resulted in their kid being singled out, they have to rally together with other families of color in their area to get shit done. Families of color don’t automatically become white by default just because they moved to the burbs.

    @waksik – Thanks for sharing. I found your point about it being difficult to have your inner notions about yourself not match the outter perceptions of others especially enlightening. I think one of the key elements to discussions of “passing” is the experience of being trapped in the space in between knowing who you are and how you feel and having people outside of your body constantly trying to challenge that and take that away. I’ve been accused of acting/sounding/being white several times in my life. I can only imagine how those accusations would impact me if my outward appearance didn’t provide such strong evidence to the contrary.

    @Bree – I totally agree with you. Especially after moving to Brooklyn, I’ve found myself making more jokes about my having a “white girl voice.” I really need to stop doing that. I don’t owe anyone an apology for the way I sound. My voice is my voice, other people’s perceptions and misconceptions are their own problem.

  77. Joseph wrote:

    @ Black Stocking
    “I even know one white mom who encourages her kids to pick their race on a daily basis. Silly, when the kids have black features and get very tan this time of year, putting to rest any ambiguity about what they look like.”

    To you.

    Putting to rest any ambiguity about what they look like to you. And that is the crux of this, isn’t it? The different reactions to Soledad Obrien’s black/latin/white/mixed appearance (not to mention great, great Aunt Josephine)proves that we are not all seeing each other with the same eyes.

    I have stayed quiet on this thread because it seems like a conversation between black people but I think it is worth making this larger point: establishing racial designations based on what we see is inherently flawed not only because it is shallow and discounts the sometimes complicated lived experience of people, but because it is utterly unreliable. As in the example of Aunt Josephine, who white people believed was one of them yet who, based on her photograph, was clearly “black,” the unspoken standards for racial categorization shift and change.

    The assertion that “you are what you look like” obscures the most important question: Look like to whom? Who is the final arbiter on this?

  78. Alyssa wrote:

    I know I’m a little late to the conversation, but I thought I’d have my say anyway.
    Just so you know, I am half white (my father’s side) and half Guyanese (my mother’s side), and most people mistake me for being Hispanic (I don’t have a drop of Hispanic blood in me, but I am married to a Hispanic man).
    My mother is incredibly Americanized, and I did not know her family growing up, so as a child I always identified as being white. It wasn’t until I was older that I really understood that it doesn’t matter how I identify. Everyone else looks at me as being brown, and because of that I will never truly be white, even though that is the only culture I know. I think that is the difference between being white (or part of any culture that is the accepted social norm) and being not white. If you are white, people accept you as who you are. If you are not, you are constantly being reminded that you are the other- you are not part of the predominant culture and you never will be. It doesn’t matter if you move to the suburbs; it doesn’t matter if you marry a white person; it doesn’t matter how light your skin is; you still bear the mark of otherness, and this mark will haunt you forever. You are always faced with the question: did I get/not get accepted by that person/for that college/for that job because of my race? White people are free of this burden; minorities are not- even when… especially when they integrate into white culture.
    As for being mixed… We really are both cultures and neither at the same time. Both cultures affect who I am, yet I am rejected by both. White people always pose the question, “No really, what are you?” At the same time, I’ve been called an Oreo by my Guyanese family. As soon as Hispanics realize I’m not one of them, many of them lose interest in me. My husband’s (then boyfriend’s) father used to refer to me as his “white girl” even though I share that same mark of brownness.
    Please understand that we really don’t get to choose what we are. Culture for us isn’t just a group to identify with; it is our family. If I marry a white man, am I then choosing my father’s family and rejecting my mother’s? If I marry a brown man am I then choosing my mother’s family and rejecting my father’s? No! Just because I identify with a culture that one side of my family belongs to doesn’t mean that I forfeit the other side. It’s not an either/or sort of thing. Yet, I shouldn’t be asked to constantly point out that I belong to both. As Jess (comment 54) points out, it is tiring to explain my background to people. Do I really have to fight this battle every time someone looks at me? Can’t I have a break without being considered a sell-out and opportunist?

  79. C-Marsh wrote:

    @ Ali

    “I think the ideas you’re questioning are a little more complex than you’re allowing.”

    True Dat!

    PoCs in white suburbs definitely is much more complex than I led on. I think the point that I failed to make was that I wished the BIA would have highlighted that more because that sense of exclusion that we face speaks volumes of the racial barriers that still exist today. Maybe if they would have discussed some of the struggles that PoCs in white upper/middle class suburbs face it would have painted a truer picture for the audience. I probably would have been more satisfied then.

    The family did mention that the move was because their house got shot up. I can definitely understand moving to preserve the safety of your family. You gotta do what you gotta do!

  80. lunanoire wrote:

    Glossolalia Black-
    “There are plenty of perks to looking white, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with playing the hand you’re dealt. Some would call that opportunist. I call it taking care of yourself.”

    I find this comment disturbing to some extent because when taken too far, such behavior harms others. I understand why some people choose to pass, move to the ‘burbs, whatever, for their personal gain. I only hope that some are generous and willing to lend a hand to others who are struggling and do not have the benefits of passing.

  81. ron wrote:

    I always considered Soledad black – her voice, hair, skin texture, lip curvature, eyes and temperment gives it away – same for malveaux. I know that an in person encounter would give more clues.

  82. RainaWeather wrote:

    @Chairo: I think it also depends on what kind of Black people one is used to seeing. Growing up in New Orleans, I knew many people who looked completely White, no question about it, but they still called themselves Black. When I saw Soledad, she looked, sounded, and acted just like so many other Black people I’d known in my life that I labeled her Black. I must say, I really don’t see how anyone could think she was White.

  83. Ken wrote:

    Having sifted through many posts on the series, it’s nice to read a thoughtful & articulate post.

    You leave your own question unanswered and I think that may be all you can do on a blog post. Like the the series, I think the important thing is to bring these issues into the public eye and get discussion and dialogue going.

    The “Black Woman & Family” program alone attracted more than 2.1 million viewers in its two-hour premiere, including almost 1 million viewers between 25 and 54 years of age.

    CNN.com’s online interactive special section for Black in America has already gotten over 2 and a half million page views.

    Hopefully, educators & parents will take advantage of the discussion materials online, and I hope that CNN will make the specials available to schools on DVDs.

  84. gatamala wrote:

    Ali~ you perfectly described why my parents moved where they did. I used to resent them for it, being on the front lines of old school hard core racism. You don’t know how black you are until you live in a mostly white neighborhood. It didn’t matter that my dad had the same job, we were in the same schools and wore the same clothes.

    or challenging the way an ill equiped teacher presented to Kill A Mockingbird that resulted in their kid being singled out

    For me it was There Eyes Were Watching God.

    I didn’t understand the investment/wealth-building aspect until I was older.

    Now, as I plan my future I respect, understand and will do the same thing.

  85. soledad, eh? wrote:

    Soledad O’Brien is half Cuban and half Australian. It appears to me that her parents made a very deliberate and concerted effort to emphasize the parts of their background that were more relevant to American society at the time (her father’s Irish heritage, her mother’s Black skin), and raise their kids accordingly. Just like Soledad’s mother made the deliberate choice not to speak Spanish, the language of her childhood, to her own children. I guess Soledad’s life is a study on the elastic and mutable nature of race in America. The story of how a Cuban and Australian woman became an African-American is one for the ages.

  86. bdsista wrote:

    Did u all catch that Soledad posted? Cool that she is on with us. I thought the series was interesting, covered some important issues, but honestly was surprised Soledad did it b/c I thought she was Latina married to a white guy and found out in the series that she was Black. I was happy to find out she was Black, but her kids I think are going to find their walk interesting as they look white and will grow up basically as privileged white children. It will be up to their parents to ensure that they have a sense of community and responsibility for those in the Black community.
    Re: episode about the guy in Little Rock whose sons married white women. Being real, it made me sick. I am so sick of BM making it and then marrying WM like that is a status symbol. Their Father is partially responsible for that. I wonder what goes on with BM that they choose women who look nothing like their mothers, grandmothers, aunts, cousins and wonder why if they got a lot of unmarried sisters, cousins and aunts why its a big edgy when they bring their prize to the cookout. Maybe they should bring their prize and some eligible men who are actually interested and find Black women to be the prize.
    ok done venting.

  87. london wrote:

    i have not seen the black in america series over here in the uk..
    i saw the picture of soledad and thought.. she’s a pretty black woman.. what is all the fuss about..
    shame on me..i denied her true heritage in one swoop..
    we need to stop this boxing in of people..
    i sincerely apologise to soledad..
    from the outside looking in on this i believe she is getting flak because of her choice of partner…
    my fellow brothers and sisters have turned on me just because of the way i speak so i can only imagine what they think of her…
    soledad should remain strong.. she has a beautiful family to raise… they are going to need it..
    this reminds me of my elder afro caribbeans calling mixed heritage children – mix breed or half caste… and telling me and my brothers not to trust them when we were growing up…
    i makes me laugh now… as i realise how many of us are in fact mixed in one way or another.. our history made it so…

  88. Lyonside wrote:

    Bdsista: So, No black men or black women ever marry or date non-black men or women out of, I dunno, love and compatability, hunh?

    Good to know where you stand.

  89. Sewere wrote:

    Wow, I’m in and out of conferences for the next couple of weeks and missing out on great conversation.

    To jump in

    Joseph said,

    The assertion that “you are what you look like” obscures the most important question: Look like to whom? Who is the final arbiter on this?

    Great comment and if I may add to it, the reality that she may have white privilege does not mean that that privilege is guaranteed ALL THE TIME. For those folks that keep harping that her appearance is immutably white, how do you know for sure that her race isn’t questioned in white settings? How do you know her struggles as a black woman?

    @ bdsista

    Interesting supposition. I’m going to follow Lyonside’s questions a bit deeper? How do you know ALL/MOST/SOME Black men who marry white women are doing it for the prize? I can sort of get your initial visceral reaction given the low number of black women who have partners but that is not as a result of black men outmarriage since there is evidence showing that less than 10% of black marriages are to white people (data shows more black inter-ethnic/diasporic relationships in the US than not). So you can understand that although you needed to vent, your blanket statements discount and demean people’s lived experiences. So you can understand those of us black men and women in interracial relationships who do care about what happens to black women refuse engage you in any discussion about interracial relationships.

  90. Princess wrote:

    In my opinion, I think travel in the U.S. and abroad is an excellent way to learn about and embrace others of various racial backgrounds, cultures and ethnicities.

    For example, I lived on the northside of Chicago, a melting pot for about 10 years. The diversity of races and cultures in this community taught me so much. One day while out running errands, I met a Cuban woman and she made her identity clear to me regardless of her skin tone or texture of her hair. She asked me what my nationality is and during the conversation, she said, “I’m not Black I’m Cuban”. We both smiled and complimented each other as we chatted.

    Now, I could have challenged her and engaged in a negative interaction by trying to project my own sense of identity on to her, but I chose to respect her and not try to box her in. Yet, there was still a connection regardless of our cultural differences and she is a sister/sistah because we both share human experiences as women.

    Of course, culturally some of our experiences are very different while others are quite similar.

  91. bdsista wrote:

    Just for the record, I have been in interracial relationships as well, and in my marriage also, and do understand that people marry for love and compatibility. But I also see a double standard that some folks have regarding their own. There are those who have posted who talk about how brothers have a halo effect for WF and have no such postive outlook for BW. Am I mad about it? Hell yeah, I didn’t get married until I was 40 and just like in the CNN series, there is an entire generation of BW who are educated, professional, politically conscious and care about their community who may never marry. I don’t buy into the great white savior either as some have posted and even if I did, I don’t see WM stepping up to the plate much. I think if you are in CA you see more diverse IR, but on the east coast, like DC, MD, its still pretty much B/W, at least where I live. I don’t count interethnic diasporic marriages as IR. If an AfaM marries someone from Nigeria or Jamaica, they are still Black.
    I am not opposed to IRs, its just I don’t like what seems to be a pattern of behavior whether its low income people not marrying the baby mamas or middle to upper, preferring to marry the beauty standard. Don’t mean to generalize, Lyonside, I did not say ALL, and yeah that is where I stand. I just feel bad for my friends, who have spent most of their lives not knowing what it is to be loved who are older and yes have been raised to prefer a BM. I was lucky to experience that even if my marriage didn’t work. I would hope everyone could experience that in their lives from whatever person of whatever race or gender. My IR married friends (I have many) have happy healthy relationships, but also agree with me on some points about the pathology that is used to reject suitable mates. That is what I take issue with. You don’thave to engage me in discussion, but then you would not be engaging a large portion of the BF population on what is an issue of concern and is discussed from high school to college to the gerontologist.

  92. brad wrote:

    It’s the One Drop Rule, home to many of the most racist “mulattoes” the Internet has. Case in point: A.D. Powel spins her web of anti-black hate andanger at anyone who is mixed and calls herself “black.”

    Ignore the ODR.

  93. Alfred Lopez wrote:

    I am just becoming aware to this site, so trying to take it all in. I was looking for a bi-racial blog or multi-racial blog and found this.
    My issue isn’t with her “playing up” her blackness to get ahead. I don’t think she is that great of a reporter, but indeed uses her “blackness” to get money, stories, and coverage she wouldn’t get on her own.
    I do have an issue with her flip-flopping. I am multi-racial along the lines of Tiger Woods. I walk into bookstores everyday looking for more bi-racial and multi-racial reading and find it mixed in with Afro-American , Latin-America, Asian-American, and so on. And while all coloured people need to unite, I think it is important for us multi-racial people to identify ourselves and push for independence.
    Instead of doing a series called “Black in America” or whatever, she needs to be doing “Multi-racial in America”. Maybe I will do that myself. Because people seem to think being Black in America is bad, or being Latino in America is bad, but you combine them and your life is automatically Heaven on Earth. It isn’t, wasn’t, and I don’t know if it will.

  94. Genevieve wrote:

    Very good post. I haven’t seen this particular aspect of the “issue” of being mixed verbalized at all, but then I haven’t been with the site for a very long time. I’m not familiar with the documentary or honestly, with Mrs. O’Brien because I get most of my news online, but I can see where she is coming from and sympathize.

    I only skimmed through some of the comments, but I’ve seen some mention of “taking advantage” of appearance. I’d just like to point out again: people don’t choose what they are. Obviously, bottom line is how we choose to identify ourselves and how other people identify us will differ, and for some people it will be a simple toMAYto-toMAHto issue to them, and for others there is more significance to it, including personal and cultural history.

    None of my sisters looks alike, most of us look “mixed”, and for most of my life I was the one who looked “white”. I’ve since tanned some, and my nose has curved more to the point where I’m the one of us who looks more obviously Native American, which I was disappointed and a bit hurt to find increased my acceptance and credibility as a woman of color, as if my experiences while I was paler weren’t as valid as those of other minorities. My black great-grandmother was a green-eyed blonde with “white” features, and she identified as black until the day she died. She and her siblings made a conscious decision to not pass for white, and whatever other benefits there were to being “whiter” than her daughters, she never “took advantage of her whiteness” knowingly seeing them as an “advantage” (as far as I know and as long as I’ve known her). Additionally, any advantage wasn’t only given without her identifying it as such, but, due to the nature of being something given or withheld, advantages (just like disadvantages) represent also a problem/favoritism/preference inherent within the judges of a person, not the person judged.

    I have had my struggles with my various “identities” (I don’t think of myself as that functionally multifaceted because, uh, I’m a freakin’ person, not a rock), not the least of which was other people’s expectations of me identifying specifically one thing or the other, of their wanting me to be something I wasn’t or didn’t identify as (whether for some reason my word wasn’t good enough, or I just must be somehow mistaken, or because otherwise I would be some kind of race traitor), attempting to sort out physical characteristics into what group kindly donated parts (because I am obviously a racial Frankenstein’s monster *eyeroll*), and even of other mixed people’s expectation that I have multiple, separate identities to switch to at any particular time based on convenience (as if being all of them at once was too much for me to expect people to handle, or that I would naturally choose the “easier” path of being pigeonholed by the people I choose to surround myself with). These assumptions are offensive in themselves without going into more complex issues of race and ethnicity such as divisions (perceived or “actual”) between those groups, and cultural interactions historically and currently between them. And in case anyone is wondering: it is not the responsibility of the ethnically ambiguous to correct the people who think they are something they are not, whether or not these people voice their opinions, and it is not required for them to divulge their detailed family history to stop people from wondering (or worrying, as the case may be) what they are. It’s in the Constitution. Look it up.

    Any of you catching on to the themes in the above sentences can see my frustration with being dissected or looked at like a curiosity or a zoo animal, but also with label exclusivity. A shared sentiment among a lot of mixed people that I’ve spoken with is how once it is revealed that said mixed person is something other than whatever group they are trying to be a part of or be friends with or whatever (whether they are additionally “other” or the established members of that group were just mistaken) , they are rejected or ignored by members of that group; that may or may not be worse than being accepted and then having to sit through prejudiced comments about whatever else you are rapidly followed by, “Oh but not you, you can’t even tell!, you’re not that kind of whatever, etc.” It’s a close tie. Anyway. I would like to make the following declaration, probably not a unique one, but just the same: I am whatever I say I am, and I don’t have to prove that to anybody. (Again, look it up.) Racial and ethnic identification aren’t exclusive clubs where I have to ask permission to join, prove my whatever-ness, play a role designated for me by members of that group or outside it, or pay dues to be allowed to stay (and despite the US government’s systems in place to the contrary, that includes Native Americans). Racial identity is not the Girl Scouts of America.

    THANK YOU RACIALICIOUS
    YOU’VE BEEN A GREAT CROWD, GOODNIGHT

  95. Genevieve wrote:

    Uh… sorry for the long-ass post. My bad.