by Carmen Van Kerckhove
Just a quick post to point you to a couple items. First, Latoya wrote a great piece for CNN’s AC360 blog yesterday:
If this isn’t a double standard, then what is?
Second, I made an appearance on CNN earlier today to discuss this issue (You’re fast, Minotaar!) and emerged relatively unscathed. 
Check it out:
I’ll share more thoughts on this in a later post, but wanted to get the clip up first.
Something I left out of the piece, but wanted to say, was of ALL the freaking places that Jesse Jackson could have chosen to talk about n*****s, this mofo HAD to pick Bill O’Reilly’s show. Why? Why? How could you feel relaxed in that environment to ever drop your guard like that?
I watched the first two minutes of this and got so annoyed that I had to hit stop…but then I realized I hadn’t seen Carmen speak yet so I had to watch again. Carmen you did great but I found that newscaster so damn irritating.
@Brigitte - I know! It was like someone was holding up a sign that said “Controversy! Up the viewers!”
I hate belligerent news people - especially when they start *out* that way with no reason.
I love that Racialicious is getting more exposure on mainstream media. Im not loving how mainstream media is so unable to ask the right questions. Why is crazy braid woman on this show, arguing that saying the n-word is a matter of “slipping up”? A civil rights leader should not “slip up and use the N-word” any more than a person with shellfish allergy goes binging at a raw bar. Reverend Jackson is showing his age.
DID HE GET A PASS? DID HE GET A PASS?
lol! I wonder what Don Lemon is like when his kids are caught in the school hallway without a bathroom pass.
That was cool and all, but I wanna know about Larry King and those UFOs!
No, I kid.
I’m curious: is that guy (sorry, I never saw him identified in a chyron or whatnot) the regular CNN anchor for this time slot? He actually struck me as being a little conflicted on the issue, like he wanted to interject more of his own experience into the matter.
When that newscaster said “Why can’t white people use the n-word?” I wanted to strangle him.
Brigitte,
I have a feeling the anchor “had” to ask that question, for the sake of the story — or, at least, for the sake of the angle it was being presented in.
I was sitting there eating lunch listening to Don Lemon and I look at the guests and am like “Hmm I know her from somewhere. Who is tha…It’s Carmen from Racialicious!!”
Then I started choking on a piece of chicken. Anyway I kind of wanted to give Don a tap to the back of his head in that interview although I suppose he could have been a lot worse.
Sorry if this derails things — hell, this is probably worth a whole other thread — but check this shirt out: ‘Obama Is My Slave.’” GAH.
I think Carmen handled this interview exquisitely! She highlighted the subversive nature of racism. She tried to bring the focus away from the media circus and address the real barriers that institutionalized racism (and other isms) present in contemporary America.
I also wonder if the anchor was instructed to get the “Black Perspective” of this issue—thus letting Deborah take most of the time. As a disclaimer– I am not familiar with this woman’s work, but why does the media always pick the most inarticulate Black folks to explain something. There is a skill to handling interviews like these. Carmen, although you weren’t given much time to talk, you were the only one with something substantive to add to the conversation. Thank you for doing what you do!
I am sorry but I don’t feel bad about what Rev. Jackson said about Obama and let’s put this in a wider context. Obama has been able to critcize Black- Americans without politcal penalty regardless if he may be right on some points, If McCain or any white politcan had gone into a Black Church and said the same things about Black Males most people on this board would go Apeshit and criticize him for his racial statments and “talking down” to Black Americans and not respecting out votes as citizens. I think that is wrong on all levels and is called pandering to get white votes and Jackson may have legitmate reasons not to like Senator Obama.
Obama has been the first President candidate to use racial sterotypes so openly in about 40 years to give him a nearly 10 point lead, and let’s admit it Latoya and everyone else because he has used the politics of Black urban pathology to court whites and every other Americans who are undecided “I aint like those Niggers like Jesse and Al wanting a handout” and it has worked for his campaign. Remember after he won the nomination he was still reeling from Pfleger and Wright’s comments and had to pull a “Sister Souljah” moment, his father’s day speech was a masterwork of politcal opprotunism at it’s finest.
I can understand Jackson’s anger because it is the anger of many Black Americans who oppose Obama and have been told to SHUT UP !!! there is a frustration that if you are black and say anything negative about Sen. Obama you “black pass” will be revoked, from Tavis Smiley to Adolph Reed and other progressive Blacks any challenge to Obama’s polices is meet with an anger and frustration that will lead to words like Jackson said about him on Fox News.
I think Obama supporters especially Black Americans should allow open debate on his polices and ideas and habit for politcal pandering because if Sen Obama’s supporters can’t stand the heat of criticism, satire and opposition on his ideas then he does not deserve to be President of the United States, he can not go into our pews and institutions and say what he wants because he’s family especially when he refused to go to Tavis Smiley’s state of Black America in Febuary. I think people should read what my hometown newspaper columnist Bill Maxwell said about Obama and his supporters opposition to legitmate challenges to his ideas and what they are doing to Black America.
I think too much is made over this. Jesse Jackson hasn’t been publicly trying to sabatage Barack Obama’s image. We hear something that wasn’t supposed to be broadcast and we react as if Jesse Jackson said it for the general audience. We know Jesse there are no surprizes.
I think Carmen (and Deborah, the other guest) did a really good job under the circumstances. Funny how after the anchor said “we have to move on” and apologized for not giving Carmen much time to contribute, the next anchor announced an upcoming story on Kevin Federline…
The great thing about Carmen is that, in my impression, she’s a very clear thinker and has the distinct ability to project control of her emotions.
Also, she listens, and she remembers what she’s heard. She learns, in other words.
The reason that, when Black people use this word, it’s “O.K.” is that, when we use it, it’s done in the recognition of mutual status. We’re talking to peers.
When white people use it, it has the effect of strengthening racism. They’re talking to subjects.
This is especially when that use is anything but its harshest use. In other words, I’m actually more in support of white people using the terms as one of contempt and derision than I am on any other casual use by them; e.g., quoting it in speech, dropping the “er,” and all of that other confusion.
I mean this much the way many Black people say they’d rather deal with a Southern racist than a Northern liberal. The former is less confusing.
Finally, those inclined, please consider my George Carlin obit on MEDIA ASSASSIN. It’s relevant here.
HA
Excuse me: I meant, This is especially TRUE when that use is anything but its harshest use.
Perhaps New Demographic ought to do a seminar called ‘how not to lose your shit when you make relevant statements and a newscaster attempts to derail you’. That’s some wicked poise.
Wow, there needed to be a much greater Carmen: Deborah ratio. Carmen was the only thing about that discussion that didn’t hurt my brain.
@ Eric Daniels
“Obama has been able to critcize Black- Americans without politcal penalty regardless if he may be right on some points, If McCain or any white politcan had gone into a Black Church and said the same things about Black Males most people on this board would go Apeshit and criticize him for his racial statments and “talking down” to Black Americans and not respecting out votes as citizens.”
The difference with Obama saying this to blacks rather than McCain is simply privilege. The old white conservative “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” notion is largely based on privilege. If McCain were to say this, he would have to acknowledge his benefit from his White privilege and also speak to the degree to which institutionalized racism, among other racial barriers, has impeded the economic and educational development of blacks and other non-whites. If McCain would implement programs and policies that would help alleviate these disparities…then McCain would have more creditability if he were to address Black men as Obama did.
In support of Obama, I think that PoCs need to address certain in house issues. Obama is taking an approach of joint responsibility in action. He understands that there are problems in all communities, especially in PoC communities, but his focus is on working collectively to resolve those issues. Rather than pointing the finger at an institutionalized society, he is willing to support an inclusive effort to tear down those barriers. He also realizes the statistics that plague the black community. We have to be responsible too and continue to better ourselves agains all odds. “By any means necessary.”
“Obama has been the first President candidate to use racial sterotypes so openly in about 40 years to give him a nearly 10 point lead, and let’s admit it Latoya and everyone else because he has used the politics of Black urban pathology to court whites and every other Americans who are undecided “I aint like those Niggers like Jesse and Al wanting a handout” and it has worked for his campaign. Remember after he won the nomination he was still reeling from Pfleger and Wright’s comments and had to pull a “Sister Souljah” moment, his father’s day speech was a masterwork of politcal opprotunism at it’s finest.”
Let’s give Obama credit! He is the first political candidate that gets race, racism, and privilege. His speech on race was one of the most real and insightful explanations about race relations in the U.S. since MLK. Obama is not using race to win. He is simply confronting the giant elephant in the room, and quite well I may add! He is a black man running for the U.S. presidency. How would race not come into the picture?
“I think Obama supporters especially Black Americans should allow open debate on his polices and ideas and habit for politcal pandering because if Sen Obama’s supporters can’t stand the heat of criticism, satire and opposition on his ideas then he does not deserve to be President of the United States, he can not go into our pews and institutions and say what he wants because he’s family especially when he refused to go to Tavis Smiley’s state of Black America in Febuary.”
Again, Obama is a Black man running for the U.S. presidency. He has to make decisions that will give him the best chances of winning. We’ve already seen that many White voters believe that if Obama runs then he will use his power to exact revenge on Whites. These are the type of people who are voting. If Obama would have went to Tavis Smiley’s event, he would have been seen as a Black candidate for Black America. Although he already is viewed in this respect, Obama has a vision of reaching all people. He wants to change America using a united front and frankly, I think it is the best way to make some true and substantial change.
I agree that there needs to be open debate about Obama’s policies, but there also needs to be a unity to get him elected. Honestly, we all know Obama is not perfect. He is against same sex marriages, he’s for the death penalty, and a number of other things that I don’t necessarily agree with, but—he is the best candidate now. Even if you wanted Hilary to win the Dem nomination, the reality is that she didn’t. So, vote for the candidate that you think is the most capable of successfully running the U.S. and fixing the mess in which we live!
I am anticipating the tomatoes that will be thrown at me after I say this, but why is it that people say the N-word is a term of endearment? I have never heard black people use it as an uplifting word. It is used to either show that someone is in the same boat or to denigrate people who think they’re uppity. It is a bad word, always has been, and no amount of ‘owning’ it is going to change that. Calling myself stupid doesn’t change the definition of the word just because it comes from my mouth. I cannot support hypocrisy, whether it comes from my culture or not. Okay, throw the tomatoes now…
@kandee - think: “that’s my n*gga!” followed by back-slap or dap — term of endearment.
that being said, i used to use it, always negatively, as in “this n*gga right here” when someone was triflin’… until i took a class in 2006 on the origins of race.
after reading books by thomas dixon and other overt racists of the era and repeatedly seeing the word used against blacks so ruthlessly, i developed a disgust for the word.
it now is something i’d personally feel uneasy about using, as though i’d be using a slur. so i don’t.
regarding the cnn clip - i felt sorry for the other chick; she was clearly nervous and somewhat under attack by that annoying anchor. carmen did demonstrate, as someone noted, “wicked poise.”
1. “As a disclaimer– I am not familiar with this woman’s work, but why does the media always pick the most inarticulate Black folks to explain something. There is a skill to handling interviews like these.”
I have to retract one of my statements. After listening to the segment again I realized that Deborah didn’t do a bad job. Actually, she attempted to highlight the more detrimental side of racism too. She was in no way inarticulate and I am guilty of a poor initial assessment. She handled herself quite well too.
I just wish we heard some more of what Carmen had to say.
That CNN interview was revealing not for its insights into the topic discussed but for the way in which the network framed the conversation.
Firstly, it’s interesting that CNN (surprise, surprise) had a person of color doing the interview. Can you imagine the distinctly different tenor of this interview if a White guy (like Lou Dobbs) were asking the same questions and breezily talking about how the N-word has a “certain je ne sai qua”?
Next, I thought that the format of the interview almost presented Carmen as an apologist for using the N-word. For viewers unfamiliar with her work, they could easily miscontrue Carmen’s position as somewhat Michelle Malkin-like in its politics.
Finally, this interview is a good example of how CNN is increasingly devolving into sensationalized McNews.
UFOs over military bases!
K-Fed!
I was disappointed there was no Brittany Spears update.
I have to say I always had issues with so-called progressives who go to Fox News. Why would you do that? Insane.
But you know every politician is an opportunist. That’s part of being a politician. That’s why I will never be one.
As a person on the far left I do have some issues with Obama BUT to me Jesse going on to Fox News and saying the first comment and then the rest. I just can’t get behind that. For Jesse to say Obama is using black people, well he sort of invented that game. Don’t get me wrong, Jesse has done alot, but there was no reason for someone as old and as sophisticated and savvy as him to make that kind of slip, especially after the Don Imus and Michael Richards thing.
You have to be consistent in your bs. That’s what good politicians that can help a community does, so at least we all know how you’re going to screw us.
That’s all I’m asking for, I don’t know of any honest politician, they are all liars, but be consistent in your lies.
Browne
C-Marsh the goal of the civil rights movment was to give Black Americans dignity and their human rights, and frankly Obama does not have the right to talk down to Black Voters unless he is going to publicly articulate what policies will use he is going to do to make fathers more repsonsible, and where was the criticism of single Black Mothers for not buying preventive sexual aids themselves during that speech. Nearly 50 percent of Americans divorce each year and why hasn’t Obama argued that marriage in America amongst Hetrosexual couples is falling apart because Obama knows that if he says those same words around working,middle and upper class -class white auidneces he will get criticized for playing racial politics so why should he get a pass because he is a biracial person and married to a black woman?
And Black Americans have these debates on C-SPAN, HBO , BET, TV-One and every talk show known to man so it’s not unusual for whites and others to see black folks debating these issues because they are always complaining to Brian Lamb everytime there is a show on “Black Issues”. Obama, like Reagan and Clinton before him is a politcal master at the game of social rhetoric where he can talk plain talk in front of his so-called base without politcal penalty but many of my older friends did not march, put their lives on the line and registered people across the South to have some Biracial Hustler from Hawaii totally disrespect a voting base so he can win an election without doing what politicans do to every other potential voter RESPECT THEM AS CITIZENS.
“Here is what I want to do to win your vote for President”, what Rev. Jackson, Tavis Smiley and other Blacks who oppose Obama want is the simple act of respecting my vote as a citizen of the United States of America and if you want my vote don’t talk down to me like a child, that is what Obama himself, his supporters don’t or will never get, Obama is not a “black leader” but a candidate running for POTUS not for the leadership of 38 million people of Black descent.
I have to cosign with what LaToya said about the environment, saying this on Bill O’Reilly’s show was a REALLY bad environment to “slip up.” BTW, this is the worst job I’ve seen by this particular newscater. There was clearly the urge on his part to want to interject his personal experience into the issue, alas…that’s not his job!
To the larger issue…the nigga or (nigger) is analagous to many other terms our culture has used to describe and degrade people. For example, think faggot and queer to the gay community and bitch and pussy to women. In all these cases, members of the group in which it was originally designed to degrade have now switched the connotation for them to be a terms of endearment. It is a way to re-empower a group of people.
Furthermore, I really have to cosign to what Carmen said on air. We focus so much on these few incidents in the public eye, but why aren’t we examining the issue of race in a larger context. With these newscasts all we seem to focus on is the notion that there is a double standard of using the word, which is a given. I really wish we took the time to have a REAL conversation on air for the world to learn from.
First time I have visited your website. Once I saw your picture I remembered you from today’s program (Jesse Jackson’s comment).
Thank you for sounding reasonable.
I was shocked to hear the other lady, a black woman justifying his actions and coming up with bullshyt excuse in the world.
I was scared to hear what you would say but I am pleased. After hearing what she had to say all i could think was “if this black woman can excuse the behavior, i can’t wait to hear what kind of crap this woman is going to say”.
Thank you for the thoughtful comments.
A very interesting article, as a black man, I can definitely understand the confusion my fellow caucasian brothers and sisters have regarding this word. If all black people were using this world, than I for one would definitely agree that everyone should use it. On the breakdancing website I go to, everyone actually does use it with no hostility meant.
With that said, my caucasian kin has to realize that not all african americans feel the N word is acceptable. In honestly, I would actually believe the majority of african americans distest the word just as much as caucasian’s do. So with that said, many of us do not see it as acceptable either. I have and will never use the n word in my life. I do not tell other individuals to use or not use it, I just ask that they do not call me one.
But if a debate came to place regarding this word, I would definitely side with my caucasian brothers and sisters and my african american kin who disapprove of the word on how that word shouldn’t be used
It would be helpful if this article would link to an original news source, though other blogs are also assuming that the reader comes in knowing what was said and what the context was. I may be the only American who missed it but I am betting not.
JACKSON: “Barack…he’s talking down to black people…telling n—s how to behave.” If he had quit while he was ahead with the first half of that sentence, he would have had a point, but he blew it big time.
The word makes sense in a black-black dialogue but highly inappropriate for mass media and gives racism free reign in the ensuing so-called analysis.
Carmen, you made two great points under fire. A) eliminating this word will not eliminate racism and B) obviously there is no pass being given. Like the brouhaha over Rev Wright, it’s a smoke screen that clouds any intelligent discussion. Word, Carmen.
Carmen, you rocked that, despite his pushiness.
WE WANT MORE CARMEN! WE WANT MORE CARMEN!
“I am anticipating the tomatoes that will be thrown at me after I say this, but why is it that people say the N-word is a term of endearment?”
Well, for the same reason many whites affectionately call each other “peckerwoods”. For the same reason South Louisiana Cajuns call each other “coonasses”. For the same reason whites who aren’t South Louisiana Cajuns call them “coonasses” Don’t tell me you don’t understand the concept, because you do.
Arturo–
““He reminds me of Adolf Hitler,” Braun explained, adding he does not like the Illinois senator because “he is a Muslim” — a myth that Obama apparently cannot escape.”
This guy also made a t-shirt that says Obama=Hitler. He’s crazy!
I just don’t think it’s a contradiction for me to be my best friends nigga without being anybody’s nigger. And any journalist who says the term is simply racial or self-hatred is as deluded as someone who says it’s solely used as a term of endearment.
I know plenty of gay dudes who call each other fag and women who call each other bitches. They’re not insulting each other, it’s a form of friendly irony, you sound like you’re expressing hatred but you’re really expressing love. And mad people do it.
What I do know is that everyone knows the difference, and everyone pretends that we don’t, out of a sense of self-righetousness. And the people who most want “nigger” removed from the American lexicon are the people who never want to talk about America’s racist history, so it’s no surprise they’re so salty about the way the word is used today.
The fact that it can never entirely subverted to one end or another is a good thing, that means it can never be entirely divorced from it’s historical context, one so many would like to forget or pretend doesn’t exist.
And fuck yeah I copped that Nas album.
Jessie Jackson slipped up, he’s not perfect and he’s getting old. People tend to slip-up as they age, the self-censor doesn’t work as well. And he has a point that’s getting lost in this so-called debate.
Heard on MSNBC: white leaders and politicians get to become elder statesman. But black leaders and politicians become vilified and obsolete. Why is that?
I agree with Eric Daniels. Obama is doing a Bill Cosby. Who do we think he’s talking about? Educated, middle or upper class blacks? No. He’s talking about poor blacks, complaining about them like Bill Cosby does. You can’t always blame white folks. I got mine, so what’s your problem. That entire personal responsibility mantra. We sure like to beat up on poor people in this country (better if they live somewhere else, then yeah, there’s compassion AND money). And white privilege gets the free pass. I am sick and tired of it. It’s like I read at the Dictator Princess blog, the problem with liberals throughout the western world is that they can’t speak truth to power. I concede that the reality is to get Obama elected, but after his FISA vote and the Cosby act, I’m wondering just how different he really is: perception is reality.
How much personal responsibility do poor blacks have for the problems that gentrification brings to lives? This WSJ article should be titled, The Cost of Black Flight, not The End of White Flight. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121642866373567057.html?mod=djemRealEstate
On another subject. Anyone heard of Obama condoms? http://www.obamacondoms.com/
[*Waits for someone to plug Jabari Asim. Wonders how ANYBODY could ever see a parallel between the brilliant and conscious CVK and Michelle “Embarrasment to WoCs Everywhere” Malkin. Sighs and decides to leave this shit alone today.*]
the newscaster is a complete tool…terrible interviewer and I love is fake righteous indignation.
I also like how CNN suddenly got a person of color to talk about the N-word…come on.
Carmen you were pretty cool.
Well done Carmen, despite the silly faux-outrage on the part of the gentleman interviewing you two.
Yes , it is a double standard. I occasionally use it with my family and close friends. As I have gotten older, however I use the word less and less, because it’s an ignorant word to use. And I never use it at work, because 1) if I use it, how do I expect others not to, and 2) if white people overheard me using it, they would feel that it’s all right for them to say it, and I’m sorry to say , we would be having some words. Most black people know it’s a double standard. And most white people know it’s a double standard , and they don’t go there, at least when I’m around !
And as for Jesse getting a pass, what pass? He’s Tommy on Martin; HE DON’T HAVE A JOB! What can they take away? If they (The MSM) want to punish him, quit giving him news time. I’m not doubting what he did for civil rights; Barack Obama wouldn’t be where he is now is not for Jackson and others like him. But he’s getting in the way now. If you’re not going to help, don’t hurt!
The fact that this interview/discussion was preceded by Larry King Live’s special on UFO and a Britney and K-FED update just shows how this country need to take a good, hard look at what’s important and what’s not so important.
Carmen didn’t get much time to speak but I’m glad the media was called out on focusing on superficial questions. Did he get a pass? Who cares? That is not an intelligent discussion of race issues and relations.
It’s always bugged me out to hear white people ask, “if Black people can say it, why can’t I?” (my response is usually, “why do you WANT to use that word) but there was something extra creepy about a brother asking why white people can’t use it if black people can.
@ Eric Daniels
Perhaps you should go back and listen to the speech again. Obama is not talking down to Black Folks. I find it tragic that whenever another Black person speaks to us about responsibility we want to stone him. Where was that backlash when Bill Clinton made a similar speech awhile back. Put bluntly, it’s slave mentality. “We oughta listen to Masta. Masta ain’t never gon steer us wrong.”
In this speech, Obama recognized the barriers that have kept PoCs from making satisfactory progress; however, those factors are not an excuse to not try harder. The reality in which we live is that PoCs have to work three times harder than your average white person. It’s not fair, and Obama knows that, but that is the way it is now. If we want that to change, we cannot simply wait for the Government to fix our problems. Please stop trying to cast Obama as some arrogant black conservative like Shelby Steele or Bill Cosby. Obama gets it! He simply is urging black people to fight harder! There is no use in maintaining a victim mentality in America. Honestly, that mentality has contributed to our current state. Again, we all know the institutional barriers that make it hard for Black Folks and Obama acknowledges those barriers; nevertheless, Black Folks still need to continue to fight! Like everyone else, we’ve become apathetic. How many rappers and other powerful Black Folks didn’t go down to Jena to protest. Mos Def’s frustration with some of those in our community is justified. We are not united as a group. If we are not united and cannot talk about real problems within our own communities, then how are we going to unite with everyone else to alleviate those problems?
“and where was the criticism of single Black Mothers for not buying preventive sexual aids themselves during that speech”
This statement perplexes me. You criticize Obama for telling Black men to take care of their children, while you fault women for not using birth control. This simply passes the buck. By your logic, it’s not the man’s fault for not taking care of his children, but rather the woman’s fault for getting pregnant. There needs to be a joint responsibility and a partnership to rebuilding the Black family structure and rebuilding America. These are key themes in the Obama campaign. I think that the Black Folks that take offense to Obama’s speeches are the arrogant ones. They are too proud of their of themselves to actual hear what Obama is saying. They are part of the reason it is almost impossible for PoCs to get ahead in America. The new American Tragedy…
Below is a key quote from the Obama speech. I really hope you go back and listen to his speech.
“We can’t simply write the problems off to past injustices. Those injustices are real. There is a reason why are families are in disrepair and some of it has to do with a tragic history, but we can’t keep on using that as an excuse. Some of it has to do with the failures of our government and those failures are real, but we can’t keep on using that as an excuse. Yes we need fewer guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them. Yes we need more money for our schools, and more outstanding teacher in the classroom, and more after-school programs for our children. Yes we need more jobs, and more job training, and more opportunity in our community. We know all of that. And that’s why I’m running for President of the United State of America. We know we need to bring about change in America. We know that. But the change we need is not just going to come from Government. It’s not just going to come from the President. It’s going to come from us. It’s going to come each and everyone of us.”
@Eric Daniels: That’s what happens when you’re on the wrong side of the cult of personality. “You’re not against UNITY are you?” If you’re not black and you’re skeptical of what Obama’s been saying and doing you get called racist.
For the record, Deborah Douglas is an editor and columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times. Here’s the column on Jackson that was referenced in the interview:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/douglas/1062377,CST-EDT-douglas18.article
I can understand the importance of trying to turn a negative word into something positive (like bitch, for example) but if you advocate for a word to stop being used, and in turn use it yourself, in public or in private, you’re a hypocrite. He may be human, but he’s a hypocrite. I’m not saying that the n-word should or should not be used, but if you advocate to discontinue its usage, and use it yourself, you’re a hypocrite.
It’s not up to me to determine if it’s morally acceptable to use that word (or any derogatory word for that matter) in public or private, but when you are a public figure that many look up to, if you are a civil rights leader, what have you, it is your duty to uphold your beliefs in public and in private.
It is the same as those Republican anti-gay senators and representatives that are caught in gay sex scandals. They are against gay rights, yet themselves practice what they preach against.
The only thing that Jesse Jackson did that was wrong was do something he advocates against. Can he be forgiven? Absolutely. But it’s his duty never to be in this situation again. It’s his duty to set an example for his community.
@Arturo:
Some people are freaking idiots. The woman who bought that shirt and got beat up reminds me of the obese people who sue McDonald’s. You do stupid things, you’re going to pay the consequences. Granted, the guy who made the shirt is a freaking idiot as well, but he didn’t force her to buy the shirt. We need to be held responsible for our choices. Her suing him is her choosing to blame someone else for her stupidity.
“Carmen didn’t get much time to speak but I’m glad the media was called out on focusing on superficial questions. Did he get a pass? Who cares? That is not an intelligent discussion of race issues and relations.
It’s always bugged me out to hear white people ask, “if Black people can say it, why can’t I?” (my response is usually, “why do you WANT to use that word) but there was something extra creepy about a brother asking why white people can’t use it if black people can.”
There is nothing creepy about it. The individuals are simply tired of the me vs them mentality that exhibits strongly in some parts of the african american community. I for one disagree with the word, and use that tactic if why white people can’t say as a tool to try and get people to understand about the usage of the word.
Some people’s opinion can never be change and that is perfectly fine. But what is Creepy is the individuals who do believe they can say it and white people can’t say it. As a country that wishes to move forward, those individuals sure are trying to reverse the steps.
“Some people’s opinion can never be change and that is perfectly fine. But what is Creepy is the individuals who do believe they can say it and white people can’t say it. As a country that wishes to move forward, those individuals sure are trying to reverse the steps.”
And those whites who ask that question, and never thing to ask the same question of white ethnics who do the same thing is…what? Forward-looking? It’s only the black individuals who are the problem, right?
“The individuals are simply tired of the me vs them mentality that exhibits strongly in some parts of the african american community. ”
In other words, they’ve been browbeaten into capitulation, and they take their shame over it out on other blacks. Got it.
I was taught from an early age that the “N” word was a not one to ever be used. So I don’t. And it does make me uncomfortable when anyone uses it –regardless of color. As it has been said, expunging it from one’s personal vocabulary is no substitute for thoughtful discussion, however, use of it can stand as a roadblock dissuading others from going further.
I always ask people this question when it comes to ethnic slurs, If I was Italian could I use “Dago and Guinea” if I was an outsider and not affilated with that group, I always find it funny that White Americans feel that they should be able to use “Nigger” when I can’t insult their ethnic group. I can’t use Kike, Pollock, Camel Jockey, Jap, Gook , Mick ,Fag, Dyke or any insult because outsiders created those words and many other ethnic groups have used these slurs amongst themselves for good and bad.
I hope you don’t ban me from the group Carmen and La Toya because the point I am trying to illustrate is that ethnic groups do use the word just like Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra amongst themselves as a term of endearment. Outsiders of every group around the world knows you don’t use these ethnic insults if you are an outsider, but White Americans who would go ballistic if I called them those names want the right to use “Nigger” or “Nigga” like rappers, comedians etc..
I hate the N-word because it mythologizes the word Nigger instead of the insult it is. I tell White Folks you can use if you want but if you say to the wrong Brotha or Sista don’t blame or sue me if you end up in a hospitial and those who use in public whether they are Black or whatever should know it could cost them their careers or worse,You just can’t do that in polite society.
I would like to ask the non- black people this question can I call you those ethnic slurs as an outsider of those groups ? does anyone know how stupid that sounds!!!!!
What the hell is wrong with personal responsibility?
Yes, I know all the pitfalls of being poor and Black in America. I grew up poor and Black in Texas in the 50s and 60s. I know about “white priviledge”, I’ve gotten to see it up close and personal every day of my life.
No, I don’t know what it is like to live with gang violence, drugs, absentee fathers and mothers, homelessness or drug addicted parents.
But if we (PoCs) continue to paint ourselves as victims then we will forever and always be just that “victims”.
We need to seriously address our communities problems and stop worrying about “white folk” getting to see our dirty laundry. Because honey that shit is pretty damn dirty and we need to come together as a people I get it as clean as we possibly can.
Community outreach, mentoring kids, tutoring kids, teaching parenting, teaching birth control, teaching young men and women how to protect themeselves from the virtual minefield of STDs that exist, teaching them respect for themselves and one another.
We can show these children that there is light at the end of that dark tunnel. That there is a different life.
I am not asking that the community produce dual Master’s candidates for Harvard and MIT but produce young adults who are capable of reading, writing, filling out a job application, capable of dressing appropriately for a job interview, capable of conducting themselves properly in an interview. Simply capable of leading full and productive lives. Yeah, I know that’s cliche but we need some fucking cliches today.
Really is that too much to ask?
Or are we too worried about whether Obama is pandering to the white vote in order to win the presidency or too busy crawling over each other like crabs in a damn barrel trying to be the first one to the top in order to point a finger at anyone who dares calls us on our shit?
“And those whites who ask that question, and never thing to ask the same question of white ethnics who do the same thing is…what? Forward-looking? It’s only the black individuals who are the problem, right?”
Of course not, but how often do you see non-caucasian members asking if they can say the ethnic slurs within the caucasian race, or any other race? The problem is that some people point the finger at someone else when we also have some garbage in our back yard. By continuing to pass on the responsibility to someone else just because they do it too, prevents the individual from becoming a better person themselves.
I for one know very few slurs outside of the N-word. However, in the same case as the N-word, I would side with the individuals who disapprove of the ethnic slurs being used and fight the common cause.
The problem is that you loop all white people within one bubble, as if all white people want to say the word or all white people use ethnic slurs, and that is not the case. Just like how there is a selected minority of individuals within the black community who still believes the N-word is fine, there is that same minority within other races.
“In other words, they’ve been browbeaten into capitulation, and they take their shame over it out on other blacks. Got it.”
No they just have the capability to realize everyone is an individual. They learn you can’t loop a group of people together because everyone is different. They understand the US is suppose to be a melting pot of all, not separate but equal states. So they band together with their fellow brothers and sisters of different race to move forward towards what are country was meant to be, a melting pot. While everyone else will just be left behind in misery.
I’m a little disturbed by the constant use of the “melting pot” term. Does it suddenly have a new definition now? Are we trying to redefine the “melting pot” into a truly multicultural exchange and practice?
Historically the “melting pot” has been either a source of one-way assimilation or white acceptance. The ingredients might vary in their present state in terms of religion, class, race, nationality and other distinctions, but after having mixed those components together you’ll end up with the mixture that was present before.
So really, what is the “melting pot” other than a vehicle for one-way assimilation? Is the “melting pot” idea something different now or are we talking about what it has been for the past decades?
BabyBro unless you have blinders on, grass -roots black organizations are on the front lines everyday and do a yeoman’s job unless you are going to get your hands dirty my advice to people like you Cosby, Obama and other people white or black who are bitching about Urban Black Behavior is simple ….
WHEN ONE FINGER IS POINTING AT SOMEONE ELSE FOUR FINGERS ARE POINTING RIGHT BACK AT YOU !!!!
You black Obama supporters are getting on my last nerves criticizing and sterotyping Black Americans who oppose him and waving pathologies with no sesne of stats or reasons.Why don’t some of you start by looking in the mirror and come up with real solutions instead of rhetoric.
Melting Pot to me represent something different. For me, a melting pot means that we merge ALL cultures into one, not have one dominant culture completely obliterate the rest. Right now, we all have separate cultures within one land, and we are solely a melting pot just because there is different races mix in one. IMO, that does not warrant the term melting pot because there are plenty of countries around the world that has a heavy mixture of “races”, but they are not called or considered a melting pot.
To me, a melting pot would truly take place when we merge all of our cultures together to form the American culture. We’re we take everything from the black culture, from the white culture, from the asian culture, and the latin culture and mix it all together into a “melting pot.” Would we ever achieve this goal? Perhaps in hundreds of years with every generation, but definitely not now.
To many of Americans still have that them vs us mentality. To often, if you see somebody from a different race do something that is “supposedly” associated with another race, they say, your not that race, you can’t act like that. The younger generation continues to pick up from our failures. More and More young black people are realizing that Rock isn’t just for white people. More and More young white people are getting into hip hop, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, that is only just the tip of the iceberg as well as we have tons of things that are involved within everyone culture.
But to me, a melting pot will officially happen when we all merge our cultures into one big culture, the American culture, and than, we wouldn’t have that them vs we mentality, than it will become us.
This is my opinion of course.
Yes, they mean one-way assimilation.
“The problem is that you loop all white people within one bubble, as if all white people want to say the word or all white people use ethnic slurs, and that is not the case.”
You want to show me where I’ve done that?
“Of course not, but how often do you see non-caucasian members asking if they can say the ethnic slurs within the caucasian race, or any other race? ”
It’s not a matter of anyone “asking” My point is that some whites call each other ethnic slurs in a joking manner or as a term of endearment, just as some blacks do. Not only do I not have a problem with that, but it’s never crossed my mind to even question it. So, why are blacks and whites discussing this phenomenon only in terms of blacks using the “n-word”?
@Eric Daniels : “You black Obama supporters are getting on my last nerves criticizing and sterotyping Black Americans who oppose him and waving pathologies with no sesne of stats or reasons.Why don’t some of you start by looking in the mirror and come up with real solutions instead of rhetoric.”
eric i think you need to do some of the same. what you just posted is much more of the rhetoric side than the stats/reasons side of things. i’m really unclear on how you conflate a centrist-liberal Obamaa with a conservative Cosby, and as stated before, laying the onus on contraception on the both men and women is not saying that “Black Women are so blinded by the Black Penis” like you say on your website, its acknowledging that men’s attitudes when it comes to intimate practices (refusing to wearing a condom) isn’t passively staying uninvolved in whether or not a kid results, but actively encouraging that occurrence. def passing the buck to ignore that.
“It’s not a matter of anyone “asking” My point is that some whites call each other ethnic slurs in a joking manner or as a term of endearment, just as some blacks do. Not only do I not have a problem with that, but it’s never crossed my mind to even question it. So, why are blacks and whites discussing this phenomenon only in terms of blacks using the “n-word”?”
Well that is a simple enough question, it’s because of hip hop. Hip Hop has become a trend setter throughout the united states and the world. It’s perhaps the only black experience you can see in certain places like japan, korea, or other foreign countries. It many ways, it’s the only black influence many cultures experience. So when people want to join in on the trend, they realize a huge portion of that trend, the N-word, is off limits to everyone but black.
That’s where the questions come from. Without hip hop, I highly doubt many of these individuals who ever consider wanting to call each other the N-word. But Hip Hop has shape America in many ways we know, and many ways we don’t.
Hip Hop had the trait of being exclusive towards blacks at one time, but not, there is 3x more white people buying hip hop than black people, so again, it’s understandable where the questions come from.
So until something hits white america where it’s cool to use such words, and people jump on the bandwagon like hip hop, than other racial slurs will continue to remain unquestioned.
“Yes, they mean one-way assimilation.”
I hope your not talking about me, as I already explain myself earlier.
Baby Bro, I have been listening to Rock Music since the mid-70’s and many black people I know listened to Elton John, Bowie, Queen, and other groups along with classic R&B and other musics including Hip- Hop. That both races are now open to listening to other people’s music is same tired rhetoric I have been hearing since I was a kid in the 70’s. Most Americans have been listening to diverse musical sounds or maybe you should you watch “Woodstock” sometime. Tell Jimi Hendrix, Funkadelic and Sly Stone the news that blacks and whites are still playing separate musics if that were even true.
And Dave why is asking Black American Women to be also responsible for their sexual reproductive protection is ‘passing the buck’. I am demanding that both sides can go to Target, Wal- Mart and Rite- Aid and buy sexual aids to prevent pregancies. It takes two when it comes to having intercourse, Dave are you agreeing with the majority of Americans and other conservatives that Poor Black Women have no sense of sexual self- control when it comes to the black men?
And for Hip- Hop being the only musical expression when they see Black People around the world is ludricous on it’s face BabyBro when many Japanesse and Koreans also listen to Reggae, African Music, Funk , Jazz and House Music. (created in Chicago and Detroit by Black and Hispanic DJ’s) There are many types of Black Music that foriegners listen to around the world and just because “Nigger or Nigga” are lyrics used in commerical American rap-pop music does not make it their onlyconnection to American Black Culture. Check out some Japanesse Soul and Funk bands sometime there is nary a black racial slur in those sounds.
“Baby Bro, I have been listening to Rock Music since the mid-70’s and many black people I know listened to Elton John, Bowie, Queen, and other groups along with classic R&B and other musics including Hip- Hop. That both races are now open to listening to other people’s music is same tired rhetoric I have been hearing since I was a kid in the 70’s. Most Americans have been listening to diverse musical sounds or maybe you should you watch “Woodstock” sometime. Tell Jimi Hendrix, Funkadelic and Sly Stone the news that blacks and whites are still playing separate musics if that were even true.”
Than perhaps you should explain some of that to the people down in detroit, as where I stayed, the minute I mention I like rock music I was classified as liking “white people’s” music. When I was living in detroit, I was staying a mostlyblack area and constantly I was chastised for like rock music. So just because you were fortunate enough not to be ridiculed for liking rock music does not mean everyone had the same experience.
Now with that said, I have stated more and more are listening. I never stated they did not listen during the 70’s. My dad was also very interested in rock music and constantly jams on his electric and acoustic guitar. What I am saying is that the streotypes that music is associated with certain races is weakening over time. Because I surely know they exist, but they become less with every generation.
“And for Hip- Hop being the only musical expression when they see Black People around the world is ludricous on it’s face BabyBro when many Japanesse and Koreans also listen to Reggae, African Music, Funk , Jazz and House Music. (created in Chicago and Detroit by Black and Hispanic DJ’s) There are many types of Black Music that foriegners listen to around the world and just because “Nigger or Nigga” are lyrics used in commerical American rap-pop music does not make it their onlyconnection to American Black Culture. Check out some Japanesse Soul and Funk bands sometime there is nary a black racial slur in those sounds.”
You are correct regarding it not being the only source, but it is the main source of exposure from the black community. I know because I live here. I live in Saitama, 40 minutes away from my work spot which is in roppongi tokyo, I work for goldman sach branch and will be returning back to the states in september.
So true, there is other branches of music that japanese people do listen to from the black community outside of rap, however, rap is easily the strongest output, as it’s displayed on the japanese mtv constantly. They obtain rap albums almost the same day in japan as they do in the states. Hip hop is a phenomenon here in japan where hip hop clothing is scene from the posh areas of roppongi to the not so friendly streets of shinjuku. Hip Hop has shape Japan in many ways, and is a much stronger force than other brands of music that you mention.
So again, of course questions will be asked when they do not know why they cannot say it. An honestly, many japanese people do not know that you can’t say it. I have met quite a few guys and gals in the hip hop clubs of japan who has no hesitation of using
the N-word. Because they have no idea the struggles behind it. So of course I try to explain to them and some of them are quite confused as to why we still use it. While others don’t care because it’s a part of hip hop.
So to deny the powerful message the hip hop portrays, that would be ludicrous.
Although Jesse Jackson’s use of the N word proves he is an angry Black man and hypocrite from the past generation it does not mean he is a racist. Rev. Jackson did not use the n word “publically” nor did he use it in mixed company (with white people or other races around)
It was the White man coined the n word phrase; and so I guess they feel they too should be able to use it. But it was the same white man that used this word to enslave, deny equal rights and pay to people that through no fault of their own were born with a darker skin color than they. By law it only took 1 drop of Black blood to be considered 3/5th of a person.
Rev. Jackson was wrong, but it shows that men like him; and paster Wright if they have enough Faith can produce Miracles. Such as to Raise the dead N word they claimed was buried a long time ago.
Mod Note - He dropped the n-word in the racially mixed Fox Newsroom. Just pointing that out - LDP
17 years ago I tried to seek out and get involved in the Rainbow Coalition, but was depressed to discover it basically didn’t exist unless Jesse Jackson was running for office and needed people to campaign and raise money for him. My discovery at that time was that Jesse had already moved on from organizing-oriented activity to Jesse Jackson-oriented activity. Jesse is like a Ralph Nader of the civil rights movement. It’s been all about Jesse for a long time.
As for “n-r” , I heard Carl Mack give his talk on this for young people when he was president of the Seattle NAACP and was powerfully affected. I came to the conclusion that it ultimately can’t be made not to be a put-down of self at some deep level. I don’t use it and I’ve made a big effort to make sure my son understands why and why I don’t believe he should ever use it to describe himself or to legitimze the term in anyway.
Jackson is all about attention getting.
Obama is trying to inspire people to stop being passive and do something personally difficulte by acting to change the country, despite the fact that he bears many of the burdens of a traditional corporate Democrat at the same time.
Carmen, you are a rockstar! I so totally agree with “jvansteppes” comment on July 18th - despite attempts from that knucklehead anchor to derail you, you clearly demonstrated an uncommon calm and cool in an otherwise (slightly) hostile environment. Keep up the good fight my dear - there’s plenty other “smart” people out here who appreciate you representing the voice of reason - especially when the voice of stupid is so loud and irritating!
“Honestly, that mentality has contributed to our current state. Again, we all know the institutional barriers that make it hard for Black Folks and Obama acknowledges those barriers; nevertheless, Black Folks still need to continue to fight! Like everyone else, we’ve become apathetic. How many rappers and other powerful Black Folks didn’t go down to Jena to protest.”
Funny, but the exact kind of “fighting” you describe is what is defined as “victimology” by the “there is no such thing as anti-black racism, it’s all blacks’ own fault” contingent.
“i’m really unclear on how you conflate a centrist-liberal Obamaa with a conservative Cosby…”
I don’t know. In his last Larry King appearence, Cosby expressed a preference for Dennis Kucinich as a Presidential candidate. But then again, maybe he’s just “conservative” when it comes to blacks, hmm?
Carmen, some really smart analysis on that — from you, that is.
Also, your voice is great.
Reference the Modnote:
Lets be very very clear; Jesse’s N word quote was “Eased dropped” and whispered to another black person. It was not a public statement made like that guy from the Seinfield show.
According to CNN and MSNBC what Fox newes did was considered as easedropping and Not ever done before? hum?
Further, I beleive the only reason it wasnt leaked” and put on the Air before; was because the Easedropper reliezed what He did; could actually Help Obama.
I sure there are Tapes with President Johnson calling Black People the N. Word; that havent been Leaked; Brought Up; or Admited by Fox News either.
What disturbs me about the discussion of the “n” word is how people want to take away the context and intent when black people use it as opposed to white people.
I personally try not to use it and I think that black people should limit how it is used. But when this (rather annoying and Fox-like rude) commentator tried to imply that it is no difference when a white person uses it is just being disingenous.
Woman calling a woman a bitch does no have the same emotional impact as a man calling a woman a bitch.
The discussion of the word ‘nigger’ has to be about systematic power that ‘white’ people have in this country and most of the world. It is not merely an insult when a white person says it. It is a confirmation of white supremacy. There isn’t even a word that a black person can call a white person that can cut as deep as nigger. Once again in comparison…there is no word that a woman could use that can insult a man like the words such as bitch or whore does women.
To say that a black person calling black person a nigger is just as bad as a white person doing so is ridiculous and in actuality seems to be a tactic to steer away from the real discussion of institutionalized white racism.
Yes it is a double standard. But that doesn’t necessarily make it bad.
White people have nearly all the power over our lives…can we at least have the right to determine who can call us what without white people’s okay?
Also, a question.
Where do they get these ‘gate-keeper’ people of color such as that commentator?
I completely Agree with Lynn
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of New Demographic, an anti-racism training company. She hosts the podcast Addicted to Race and blogs at Racialicious, Anti-Racist Parent, and Race in the Workplace.
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Regular Black Guy Post July 19, 2008 « Regularblackguy’s Weblog on 20 Jul 2008 at 1:35 am
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