Comments

1. Tariq Nelson wrote:

   I am really looking forward to seeing this film TONIGHT!

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 4:29 am ¶

2. Niki wrote:

   Going to see it early tomorrow! Can. not. wait!

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:19 am ¶

3. Roxie wrote:

   Yay! Your review excites me

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:27 am ¶

4. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

   OHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!!

   oh my god. I’ve always been a huge Heath fan AND I read Batman comics along with X-Men and Wonder Woman religiously.

   I get a clit boner whenever I see the previews for Batman. OH ALLAH!!!!

   whoooooooo hoooo

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:48 am ¶

5. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

   plus I’ve been screaming “WHY SO SERIOUS??” to everybody lately. I think people are sick of hearing it.

   heh

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:50 am ¶

6. JD/ formerly J wrote:

   Yesssir….I am part of the midnight showing crowd….This movie was the TRUTH…It is funny you mention the women, though. If therewas a weakness in the movie that wuld be it. Which badass woman should they introduce and who would play her….. I haven’t had a villianess fix since Michelle Pfeiffer

   P.S. Heath Ledger IS the Joker Forever.Not even Johnny Depp can do this role justice.

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:58 am ¶

7. Latoya Peterson wrote:

   @Tariq - Oh yes, oh yes, it is a treat. Random gasps of shock and applause broke out in the theater at random points during the long ass movie. (But then again, I live near a talky cinema, it’s always a group party when I hit the movies. )

   @ Nikki - No you can’t. Goosebumps!!! (But again, warning, fan girl talking. I have always loved the Joker and he made the damn movie.)

   @Roxie - More like scattered thoughts, I can’t do a review for a bit. Oh, but I love…

   @DFP - Bring a tissue.

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 9:01 am ¶

8. Latoya Peterson wrote:

   @JD - Seriously! Michelle as Catwoman was a serious portrayal, which they seem to have forgotten. And it’s odd because Gotham has so many interesting women. I hit the Wiki to refresh my memory and there were tons to choose from. But I was seriously not feeling R. Dawes. Maggie did the best she could to embody that role, but nothing was there.

   Heath Ledger IS the Joker Forever.Not even Johnny Depp can do this role justice.

   110% cosign. He hit every note, every contradiction, every flaw, every tic. And yet, still managed to make him strangely appealing. When I saw they were selling the Why So Serious Frosted Glass poster for like $125.00 (before Ledger’s death) I wondered what all the damn fuss was about.

   Now I know.

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 9:10 am ¶

9. Joy wrote:

   Hi Latoya, I’m glad you liked the film! I was lucky enough to see it on Tuesday night at a special IMAX screening. And while I did enjoy it, I was particularly interested in the way PoC were treated– and there were a lot of them in this film, which was surprising to me.

   In case anyone is interested in a “PoC Breakdown in Batman” here it is (very minor spoilers you could glean from the cast list):

   Hispanics: the mayor of Gotham is named Garcia. A female police officer with a minor subplot is Rodriguez. There are Hispanic thugs/gangsters who cooperate with the Joker.

   African Americans: Lucius Fox, Batman’s gadgetry whiz, is played, of course, by Morgan Freeman. The head of a black Gotham crime family is named Gambol, and he and his gang have two memorable scenes with the Joker. A prominent man in the Gotham Police Force, Commissioner Loeb, has a minor subplot. A black prisoner also has a minor, memorable, subplot.

   Asians / Asian Americans: Lau (played by Chin Han) is an accountant from Hong Kong who develops a business relationship with Wayne Enterprises– on the side, however, he is a shady money launderer who makes off with the Gotham mobs’ money. This leads to a subplot involving a nighttime jaunt through the Hong Kong skyline, an elaborate kidnapping, and several short, tense scenes of assorted Gotham characters interrogating and harassing Lau. There are some Asian female extras I noticed in Gotham– at a party, as a police officer, I noticed– but they have no lines and stay in the background.

   Batman’s portrayal of Asians is sort of complicated, and I think, not particularly good. Latoya commented that Asian males “looked sauve” in this film– if by being suave, you mean they wore suits. But they were portrayed as either faceless extras who get pummeled by Batman, or in Lau’s case, a dirty foreign accountant with an accent who betrays both of Gotham’s good and bad and is later used as, essentially, a weak tool.

   I think underlying “The Dark Knight” is a definite strain of Asian xenophobia, particularly towards Chinese, which mirrors the current socio-political climate in the US. In one scene, Harvey Dent proclaims “I suggest you buy American” when he comes upon an item “made in China.” Fox and Bruce both express doubt and hesitance towards doing business with Lau’s Chinese company from the start. And in the end, they’re right, and even Gotham’s bad guys get screwed over by the one prominent Asian character.

   Asians largely remain either faceless or as shady, troublesome, untrustworthy foreigners in The Dark Knight. Basically, then, the same as any other movie.

   Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 9:57 am ¶

10. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Joy -

    Way to my job for me!

    Cosign with all except for this bit:

    Latoya commented that Asian males “looked sauve” in this film– if by being suave, you mean they wore suits. But they were portrayed as either faceless extras who get pummeled by Batman, or in Lau’s case, a dirty foreign accountant with an accent who betrays both of Gotham’s good and bad and is later used as, essentially, a weak tool.

    My last direct comparison of Asian men en mass in an American blockbuster film is from the Departed. So, while the use of the shady Asian crime boss with overseas connections as criminal foil is kind of played out - notice, perpetual foreigner stereotype - it was better treated in Batman than I’ve seen in other films.

    1. Lau got to orchestrate his own scheme, from the beginning. He comes on the scene as the person in the most control before the Joker shows up and throws a wrench in things.

    2. I notice wardrobe and fashion a lot in movies - to me, it is almost as important as the acting itself as to how a character is presented. In other films - Departed is my most recent example, but I can dig up a few others lately - Asian males are often dressed cheaply, in ill fitting clothes, cheap hanging suits, plain clothes. I always find that odd, particularly as villains in control are often sharply dressed.

    Not only did they give Lau a proper dressing, befitting of his stature, they allowed him to have light accent. Not the stereotypical one that Asians normally get stuck with. In addition, the viewer also gets to see Lau in his element, on his own home turf, surrounded by beauty and technology.

    In short, he was treated as a bit part villain should have been - given a role, allowing it to be fleshed out. By Lao’s own admission, he’s a numbers guy, not a thug - and I found his portrayal to be very realistic. (He was also the person who came off with the least bit of damage - wonder how he faired near the end of the film?) Him becoming the fall guy in the face of brute force (from Gotham PD) and the threats from his business partners reinforce this dynamic. He’s the polished brains guy - the physical stuff is best left to others.

    He was the player as much as he was bullied and that is why I am not so quick to label his portrayal as negative. I felt like Gamble was more of a stereotype - ignorant and brutish, brash and quickly dispatched - than Lau.

    But I do hear you on the Buy American comment in conjunction with some of the other scenes - but to me, that spoke more to Dent’s Mr. All American cocky persona than xenophobic sentiment.

    But that’s just my take - anyone else want to weigh in?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:18 am ¶

11. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Also on the Latino side of things, wasn’t the officer in the car with Gordon and Reis (the guy who wanted to reveal Batman) also referred to by a Latino surname? He got a speaking role as well.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:27 am ¶

12. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Or maybe not - was his name Berg? A couple names popped up on that cell phone, I’m trying to remember if it was Ruiz or Berg.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:28 am ¶

13. lxy wrote:

    @ Joy

    Interesting and insightful analysis of how PoC are represented in the film.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:35 am ¶

14. Philly Phil wrote:

    was it or was it not the shit?!

    heath ledger IS the joker! everything he did had me shaking my head, thinkin “this motherfucker’s crazy…” ESPECIALLY the “magic trick” he pulls in the pool hall! the whole place went bananas! it was at that moment that i/we knew we were really watching something magical.

    if i may throw in my 2 cents about a possible replacement to the joker role: joseph gordon-levitt. it has nothing to do with the fact that he semi-resembles heath (they both starred in 10 things i hate about you. guilty pleasure of mine). but the kid is amazing… from Brick to Mysterious Skin to the Lookout to anything he touches, the only place this guy can go is up.

    i didn’t like rachel dawes but i liked her as the plot device she ended up being for the batman/bruce - twoface/harvey conflict. she put on a brave face when she first confronted the joker but even he could see how nervous she really was.

    dammit! i just wanna see it again!

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 11:08 am ¶

15. Aaron wrote:

    First, the officer in the car. His name was Berg. He wanted to kill the man who was going to reveal Batman, because the joker said unless someone did, he would destroy a hospital. Berg’s mother was in the hospital. The other officer with a family member in the hospital was Rodriguez (?). She was the officer close to Lt. Gordon who ended up helping to kidnap Dent and Dawes (because she was given money to help with her mother’s medical bills).

    Next. I liked it. A lot.

    Finally, I wish Morgan Freeman would be cast in more LEADING roles that show how amazing he is. He’s serially cast as “best supporting actor” type roles, and roles where he gets to play some sort of wise old guy who is a member of some team’s inner circle. Most of those are pretty mediocre roles. I guess he’s probably now considered too old for many leading roles. And he’s black. Double whammy. But Shawshank? Freakin brilliant. Best actor in the movie. And it’s one of the greats. And it’d be nice if, like, other PoC could be given sweet roles to show of their talents too, you know. There are other great actors out there. He’s just one of the lucky ones who has been lucky enough to get modest amounts of mainstream recognition.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 11:28 am ¶

16. Joy wrote:

    I appreciate your points Latoya– and you’re right. Lau is portrayed with much more dignity than most other Hollywood films would have allowed.

    Still, I kind of wonder why writer/director Christopher Nolan felt it necessary at all to include that subplot– did the dirty money launderer *have* to be a shady Asian businessman? I don’t know. I really do think its a reflection on the recent vein of China-scare in our culture.

    I still enjoyed the film, but I wondered about the necessity of the Hong Kong subplot in the first place. A prominent reviewer– I think it was from the New Yorker– called that subplot “meaningless” (to the story) and “expensive” (to film)– and I think he’s pretty on target.

    As for the two cops: one was Berg, who was in the car with Gordon and the accountant, and the other was definitely Rodriguez (the female cop with a minor subplot that I referenced earlier).

    Once again Latoya, thanks for your insight and for sharing your thoughts on this. I always appreciate what you have to say

    (lxy– thanks!)

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 11:33 am ¶

17. Joy wrote:

    Oh and Latoya– and *****HERE BE GIANT SPOILERS****– as for Lau’s demise– he does end up very badly. Remember how Joker escapes from prison by blowing it up? He then snatches Lau from his cell and makes off with him to an abandoned warehouse.

    If you remember the near-silent shot of the Joker leaning out the backseat of a stolen police car’s window, smiling into the wind while the car careens rather maniacally and wildly down the street– I think that was Lau who was being forced to drive (uh oh, bad Asian driver?).

    In any case, Joker takes the piles of mob money and places Lau, bound and gagged, at the very top of it. He then sets all the money on fire, presumably burning alive Lau (we don’t see it actually happen, but if the money’s on fire, and Lau is on top of all the money…)

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 11:40 am ¶

18. Jack D. wrote:

    “I’ve only read one comic with Talia Head, but I was intrigued.” … And yet you’re familiar with Harley’s unique psychopathy?

    Merely as a matter of curiosity: When did you become a fangirl? It surprises me that you aren’t more familiar with Bruce’s primary love interest, the daughter of Ra’s al Ghul.

    And I think a quick side note would be appropriate for you to post here: What did you think of the Watchmen trailer?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 12:20 pm ¶

19. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Jack D. -

    Harley is one of my favorite characters. I spent time tracking down a lot of the things she was in. Not everything yet - it’s one of the things I don’t like about American comics, as it can be quite difficult to track down older stuff. As I explained to Philly Phil on the other Summer movie thread, I bounced back and forth between TV series and comics for quite a bit in my teenage years - what I read/saw depended solely on availability. As for fan girl timeline, that’s in the other thread as well.

    @Aaron, cosign on Morgan Freeman being a leading actor. I wonder what happened with the Alex Cross franchise…

    @Philly Phil - Hmm, will check out Joseph Gordon-Levitt. (And we share the same guilty pleasure - I fucking love that movie.)

    @Joy - That was Lau at the top of that? I *knew* I should have went back for my glasses!!! I normally don’t need them in the big ass theatre setting, but I do tend to miss the fine details.

    I was going to respond to your other comment, but now I don’t see it. BRB.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 12:46 pm ¶

20. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Joy (again) -

    I appreciate your points as well. Your comment reminded me of something that isn’t often broken in Hollywood Paradigms - the Asian villain who is just a villain. There *always* has to be some kind of connection to shady overseas connections or huge Chinatown underworld mob bosses. No one comes to mind that just sprung up organically. So that’s something to note as well.

    Now, villains aren’t normally as well fleshed out as heroes but still, I kind of have to wonder if people wouldn’t benefit more from being able to watch roles switch every so often. If we break the traditional idea of a villain - must be unrepentantly evil, must be contemptible - would we break some of the other paradigms as well? Worth pondering, I think.

    Speaking of Asians in lead roles though, this is the second time I’ve seen the trailer for the ABC Family Channel movie about the Samurai Girl. What did you think of that one, Joy?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 12:59 pm ¶

21. Jack D. wrote:

    Quick comic book aside: Checked out the latest X-Factor issue this week, Latoya? You might appreciate a brief scene, appropriate for Racialicious, in which Darwin’s father expresses surprise at his son’s pale skin tone and another character offers a disturbing theory as it relates to Darwin’s reflexive adaptability to his environment. … Peter David is an interesting writer.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 1:11 pm ¶

22. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    See? I’m gonna fool around with y’all and change my movie plans for tonight.:-D I’ll see The Dark Knight next week; tonight it’s Hellboy 2, dammit!

    At least, you all gave me something to look forward to seeing. As usual, I love the Racialicious crew.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 2:10 pm ¶

23. Joy wrote:

    Hi Latoya– I haven’t seen the Samurai Girl commercial, but I read Angry Asian Man’s blurb on it today. I generally hate the ABC Family Channel– this is a channel with “family” in its name, yet it regularly broadcasts stuff like “Mean Girls” and “Greek”– so I wouldn’t expect much from them.

    Its nice, I guess, that MTV Real World alum Jamie Chung has found herself a role in Hollywood, but I’m not into it at all. What do you think?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 2:17 pm ¶

24. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Jack - I’ll add it to the list.

    @Joy - I had two thoughts:

    1. Yes, Jack Yang! Hotness!

    Then, a little later in the trailer…

    2. Fuck, he died and the series hasn’t even premiered yet!

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 2:25 pm ¶

25. Philly Phil wrote:

    @Latoya

    “i have a penis drawn on my face, don’t i?”

    i crack up at that Ten Things I Hate About You line every time…

    other guilty pleasure: Mannequin.

    can i get a Here-Here?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 2:28 pm ¶

26. V-Knowledge wrote:

    The Dark Knight is the new standard for future superhero films! The next follow up has a HUGE mountain to climb.

    10 out of 10! If you haven’t seen it yet, just what are you doing with yourself?

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 8:23 pm ¶

27. Tariq Nelson wrote:

    Just saw it. Action from beginning to end. (I didn’t particularly care for the end, but it was still a great movie)

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 9:56 pm ¶

28. Tariq Nelson wrote:

    BTW, the showed a Terminator teaser trailer (also starring Christian Bale) that made everyone cheer

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 9:57 pm ¶

29. Phrone wrote:

    Just to throw in my two cents. I read your summary before I went to see the movie (which I’m still wired from) and so I went in expecting it to be generally good for POC.

    The whole minor subplot with Lau, though, really bothered me. For one, he’s referred to (more than once?) as being “just an accountant.” Really? That’s not stereotypically Asian or anything.

    Secondly, I didn’t think he was really in charge of the situation — he kindda freaked out once the Joker showed up (hiding his face in fear when the Joker talks about how he knows who will talk or whatnot)

    They also talk a great deal about how corrupt China is, which at the time, I just took in stride with “Ok, but Gotham is corrupt too”, but then the whole ending message about how corruption is really bad (see: the Chief, aka Gary Oldman) and people are essentially good (see: the whole thing with the boats) kindda had me wondering. Taken with the whole “buy American” line, I’m going to say that the movie sortta fed into a lot of anti-Chinese sentiment.

    It was definitely not as bad as it could have been — not by a long shot — and those were fairly minor points, but still, I had the sense of ’same old, same old’ with that.

    I thought the movie was FANTASTIC, and I’m definitely going to see it again, but that bothered me. (Also, on an unrelated note: they go and give Joker this amazing make-up, and then they go screw up Two Face’s make-up. He reminded me of the Terminator or something. I was disappointed in that.)

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:13 pm ¶

30. Mel wrote:

    **SPOILERS**

    Ramirez was the female cop that sold out Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes. When Dent escapes the hospital, he takes Ramirez hostage and forces her to call Commissioner Gordon’s family so he can kidnap them and lure Gordon to the warehouse where Rachel was killed.

    Anyway, it was a really great movie and it was nice to see some Asians on the screen though I would appreciate them in roles that aren’t related to them being shady businessmen.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:49 pm ¶

31. Logan wrote:

    Latoya: Probably me showing my comic book nerdiness here, but Harley is, for the most part, a new character, so you shouldn’t have trouble tracking her stuff down. When I think “old”, it harkens back to the 60s or 70s, where as Harley was introduced in Batman: The Animated Series circa 92?, and was so popular there she crossovered into the comics. Of course its still a pain to track her down, especially if you do it properly (ie: Find each issue instead of just torrenting it), but her stuff is relatively recent, so to speak.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 10:49 pm ¶

32. RJG wrote:

    I’ll armchair plot out the next Batman movie that could work well if people wanted to see a good female villain role that fit in with Two Face, gave Catwoman some connection, and continued with the mob problems that occur during this paticular Batman movie.

    Sofia Gigante Falcone would, in my opinion, rock as the primary nemesis.

    Posted 18 Jul 2008 at 11:29 pm ¶

33. Clara wrote:

    I’d like to point out that Lau is a self-proclaimed “numbers” guy, which is very reminiscent of the stereotype of Asians being mathy and technical a.k.a. nerdy. Perhaps I’m a bit sensitive to this stereotype because I don’t fit it (Chinese-American English major, baby!), but I kind of rolled my eyes at this part. Couldn’t he just be a really smart businessman? I guess though that the nerdy stereotype is complemented by the high position Lau has in his company and all the power displays. Kind of wished the Chinese characters spoke Cantonese instead of Mandarin in the Hong Kong scenes though, because, come on! They were in Hong Kong! Cantonese central, anyone?

    But despite this gripe, I really enjoyed the movie. The action sequences were wonderful, I was at the edge of my seat almost throughout the entire movie.

    Posted 19 Jul 2008 at 2:46 am ¶

34. Clara wrote:

    Errr, sorry, let me rephrase a sentence:

    I guess though that the nerdy stereotype is offset>b? by the high position Lau has in his company and all the power displays, not complemented.

    Posted 19 Jul 2008 at 2:51 am ¶

35. Vanessa wrote:

    who liked the joker joke

    WAtch me make a pen disappear…now that was hilarious.

    Aaron Eckhart was hot and I hope who somehow survives and cause more mayham but I doubt it.

    I wonder if they are going to make another batman film in it with the joker or are they giong to write him out.

    Cilliam Murphy was in it…wished they had done more with him.

    Posted 19 Jul 2008 at 2:01 pm ¶

36. JD/formerly J wrote:

    Favorite ALL time scene was the joker ‘magic trick’…….I am still laughing.

    It is amazing how this movie was freaky as all HELL. I think that knowing that there are people ‘who just want to see things burn’ is just so mind blowingly scary. I mean no motives…DAMN.

    How did people feel about the Black ex-con sub plot? I loved the statement it made but I am still ambivalent about the imagery. Partly because I was convinced he would blow them up. Then I felt guilty for pre-judging him. I hope it was because he was a convict not because he was Black…and even then….
    P.S. I am Black which actually makes this worse?

    Posted 19 Jul 2008 at 6:39 pm ¶

37. Jake wrote:

    I’m not sure about Harley Quinn. In the Batman cartoon (where she was invented), she was often portrayed essentially as a battered spouse, still clinging to her abusive partner.

    And I’d be interested in seeing the Racialicious folks’ take on the comic Blue Beetle. It’s a reinvention of an older character, where the magical/alien artifact that granted the earlier characters their superpowers is discovered by a latino teenager in El Paso. I’m told that one issue is set in Mexico and that all of the dialogue is in Spanish (haven’t read that one yet myself).

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 12:38 am ¶

38. Michelle wrote:

    An amazing movie.

    Easy one of my top five favorite movies! The scene where the car turns into the fly motorcycle, what? What? The joker in a dress and wig, what? What?

    I see what people are saying about the Asian subplot, but the shot of Hong Kong was beautiful. I mean, I think that sort of begins to show the majesty of and beauty of a city, which I think then translates to the people. Also, I saw his whole, I am a numbers man thing as a sort of tongue in cheek. I thought he was being ironic.

    One thing I noticed, there was one Black woman in the whole movie. With one line and 3 secs of screen time. Come to think of it, there has only been one other Black woman in the entire franchise with lines, a Vivica Fox cameo in Batman and Robin. There were also only two Black women in the whole of the Spider-Man franchise as well, so I guess its a thing, huh?

    The movie was the best action movie of our time. Period.

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 2:29 am ¶

39. Ike wrote:

    First off, I loved The Dark Knight. Great character development, great effects, great cinematography, great acting. Easily the best movie of its genre.

    However, as an Asian-American, my gripe is that there were no Asian AMERICANS in the movie other than extras. New York City is 10% Asian. With those odds, you’d think there would be ONE Asian American with a speaking role.

    Hancock disappointed me on the superhero-movie level, but at least it had an Asian American guy with a speaking role in the boardroom scene, and those Asian American gangbangers at the beginning. (I chalk up the racist remarks on Hancock’s end to character development without going into just trying to be racist.)

    And yes, we do remember stuff like that when we judge movies.

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 8:54 am ¶

40. Natalie wrote:

    Latoya you were as giddy as a kid in a candy store I couldn’t help but smile while reading your review. The boyfriend and I went to see the film on Friday and we both enjoyed it thoroughly. Heath Ledger totally worked the hell out of the joker role!

    The only downfall of the movie I found was Aaron Eckhart’s role as “two face”. I thought the character could have been developed a little more. I felt like they brought on the aspect of two face too late into the movie for it to make a real impact. I understand what christopher nolan was trying to do when he wrote harvey dent as the savior for gotham city but I feel like the villan was underplayed. Also, the movie was too damn long! It could have been narrowed down to 2 hrs as opposed to 2 hrs and 30 mins.

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 11:20 am ¶

41. thesciencegirl wrote:

    Just saw it. Freakin amazing. As everyone else said, Heath Ledger owned that role. Fantastic. The Rachel Dawes character had no depth; that was really disappointing, especially because Maggie G is awesome and could’ve rocked it had she been written better. Also, Christian Bale as batman = HOT, even if he did overdo the growly Batman voice a little.

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 6:44 pm ¶

42. Ratrace wrote:

    Caesar Romeros is the only Joker period.

    Posted 20 Jul 2008 at 9:12 pm ¶

43. Michelle wrote:

    Gotham is supposed to be Chicago right? Gotham City as sung by R. Kelly, right? And wasn’t a lot of it filmed in Chicago?

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 1:21 am ¶

44. Lyonside wrote:

    Michelle: Always heard of NYC referred to as Gotham, regardless of filming.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 6:40 am ¶

45. Daomadan wrote:

    “I’m not liking this Rachel Dawes character, at all.”

    Heck, I liked her (and Gyllenhaal is a big improvement over Holmes) but she was only there for one reason: woman in the refrigerator syndrome http://www.unheardtaunts.com/wir/. She was the piece that pushed Dent over the edge and she was Wayne’s hope for a normal life. What did they do to her? Oh, make her a symbol/memory and kill her for the purpose of hurting the men in her life. Nice.

    I really want Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy and any other woman in the Batman universe to make it into the next film and really give Batman a run for his money.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 8:21 am ¶

46. Nicest Girl wrote:

    I totally agree about Harley Quinn… she is my absolute favorite female villain ever and I would love to see her. But I would love to see her with Heath Ledger’s Joker… and it makes me sad that now we never will.

    Heath was awesome.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 8:50 am ¶

47. Niki wrote:

    Saw it Saturday. Probably the best movie I have seen so far this year. Heath Ledger played the hell out of that role. The moment the Joker first appears, you cannot take your eyes off of him. You even forget that it is Heath in the role–he immersed himself so much in it. He made the Joker frightening and weirdly endearing. The bit with the wig and nurse dress is priceless. Too incredibly sad that we won’t get to see him reprise this role in future Batman movies. I most def will be buying this when it come out on DVD.

    I, for one, loved the ending because it is more true to what Batman is really supposed to be–an avenger whose aim is justice by any means, not always within the law or using standards of “right” and “wrong”.

    Perhaps POC will have a more expanded role as the Batman universe continues on screen. Glad to at least see them in this film in speaking roles and as many extras.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 8:52 am ¶

48. Rach wrote:

    After Lau disappeared before the third act (he was burned alive I think?) I totally forgot about him. I remember he had a really cool accent though.

    As I’m aware, Lau was originally going to be played by Edison Chen, the guy from The Grudge 2. Don’t know if that would have made a difference but at least he would have been a really hot guy instead.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 9:07 am ¶

49. Elizabeth Ann wrote:

    I saw this movie last night and I know this isn’t a political blog, but it’s the smartest blog I’ve found that is critical of pop culture, so I thought it might be relevant to share my reaction here.

    Is there anyone else who is familiar enough with the Telecom issue and the neo-conservative propaganda about terrorists being crazy to get a really bad taste in their mouth after this movie?

    I’ve always been a huge fan of Batman, but the more this movie sits with me the more I feel like his persona was usurped by the likes of Dick Cheneyesq minds to say, “See? When things get bad, you’re going to have to spy on the public, lie to the public, and use very harsh interrogation tactics, just like Batman did.” I could probably list a dozen other anti-peace, anti-critical thought, anti-UN messages which on the whole left me very un-nerved. My conclusion is that Dark Knight was pure propaganda. Powerful, very very well done, well written propaganda.

    But I haven’t found a single word on the Internet similar to this idea. Does anyone else see this?

    I’m tempted to write an entire essay on the idea and try to get a blog somewhere to publish it.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 10:06 am ¶

50. Ali wrote:

    OMG! I too was so shocked to see Deebo in this! This film was awesome! I loved the first Batman movie and this absolutely did not disappoint. I was reminded multiple times why this is my SHIT! When he hooks the plane with the grappling thing I almost fell on the sticky theater floor! Heath was amazing, performance of a lifetime (literally). I don’t see how anyone could possibly take up the mantle after him. Not even Johnny Depp could top this. He was haunting!

    Only a couple of (tiny) disappointments for me overall. I thought there was some lame subversive political stuff. We’re fighting the corrupt Chinese, orly? I also remember hearing some crack about the superiority of American made goods and I half expected Harvey Dent to blurt out the phrase “stay the course” during his Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Joker speech. But overall I absolutely loved it!

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 10:24 am ¶

51. RakuMon wrote:

    @ Elizabeth Ann: Well, Batman has been portrayed as a bit of a fascist in the comics, so the surveillance thing made sense.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 11:14 am ¶

52. Tasha wrote:

    PoC regards they at least met minimum standards - goodie!

    i really realy liked the movie. batman was completely over whelmed by heath but it couldn’t be helped dude was in his zone

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 11:34 am ¶

53. Chris wrote:

    Elizabeth Ann-
    I really do see your point, but from both sides. Assume we are talking about the kind of terrorists that aren’t motivated by money (i.e. Joker), the type that might blow up a ferry or an office building (i.e. 9/11). At some point you have to recognize that they aren’t playing by the rules and they will use your rules as a limiting factor to gain an advantage. When people aren’t motivated by things like money or power and are not afraid of death, there can be no deterrent for what they will do. What do you do at that point? I hope that we never have to ask that, but the time is likely coming quickly. Note that while the people on the ferries didn’t make that choice (it was too difficult), it was one that Batman cannot avoid because his inaction would in effect make him an accomplice that than simply a bystander. When the time comes to make those tough choices I hope there are modern day heroes that can make them for us, since it appears that many of us aren’t capable of it. Now please don’t imagine I’m calling Cheney or Bush heroes, because I hope Obama is capable of making the hard decisions when the time comes. Sometimes the right things aren’t popular and sometimes the right things are seen as wrong. Sometimes you really do have to be the “Dark Knight”.

    BTW: Saw the movie in IMAX. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!!!

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 2:02 pm ¶

54. Jay wrote:

    As I’m aware, Lau was originally going to be played by Edison Chen, the guy from The Grudge 2. Don’t know if that would have made a difference but at least he would have been a really hot guy instead.

    Well, he still has a cameo in the Dark Knight. But given what Hollywood would offer him (probably not any sexy leading/major supporting roles), he probably chose correctly.

    He talks about it here:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/11/DDGOLLLO541.DTL

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 7:32 pm ¶

55. Jay wrote:

    Sometimes the right things aren’t popular and sometimes the right things are seen as wrong. Sometimes you really do have to be the “Dark Knight”.

    But there’s a reason that Batman isn’t Harvey Dent, or Commissoner Gordon, or the Mayor of Gotham. Your analogy to Bush/Cheney is horrible in that sense.

    Posted 21 Jul 2008 at 7:37 pm ¶

56. ghanja wrote:

    Unfortenetly Hollywood movies are white washed…Im glad other cultures are stepping up and saying something about it. Im black and I think John Leguizomo is perhaps the best character actor around. I dont feel they have nearly enough asians, or latinos with starring roles. and the black roles are stereotypical…the only good roles go the white folks and every other culture fights for the scraps…Its taken me 22 years to just admit this…but hey…” WHY SO SERIOUS”

    Posted 22 Jul 2008 at 2:04 am ¶

57. angel wrote:

    I wasn’t feeling the Rachel Dawes character either, but the movie, overall, was fucking fantastic!

    I’m also cosigning on Heath Ledger as the Best. Joker. Ever. I wouldn’t think anyone would dare attempt to take on the role after his protrayal.

    Posted 23 Jul 2008 at 11:27 am ¶

58. angel wrote:

    @ Philly Phil - HERE, HERE (and mannequin 2, haha)

    @ the science girl - I completely agree. I thought that the Batman voice could have been dialed down a bit.

    @ Daomadan - Gyllenhaal is a HUGE improvement over Holmes. I couldn’t stand Mrs. Cruise in the role.

    Posted 23 Jul 2008 at 11:35 am ¶

59. sardine. wrote:

    In Batman Begins, what country did Bruce Wayne go to, to get away? Was it China? If so, maybe Nolan wanted to have a little recurring theme?

    Or maybe, I’m naive.

    Posted 23 Jul 2008 at 12:42 pm ¶

60. Elizabeth Ann wrote:

    Hey thanks for the responses to my comment!

    @ RakuMon: Good point, although that sort of makes me further question my loyalty to the series.

    @ Chris: Seems to me that’s exactly the republican message which I’m calling out this movie for supporting.

    @ Jay: I’m not sure if what you’re saying is that because no one elected Batman what he does is ok. The message I’m getting is that we need a hero like Batman, so stop crying about Gitmo and Blackwater and the telephone companies etc.

    Posted 23 Jul 2008 at 4:38 pm ¶

61. PaulPortland wrote:

    Just saw the Dark Knight today, and, yeah, it kicked ass. Much, much better than Batman Begins, with most of the credit going to Ledger’s Joker. He nailed that role to the point where he makes Nicholson’s Joker from the first Burton film seem like the mischievous, but ultimately harmless fat uncle who shows up at family get togethers and gets drunk by the half-time show.

    You know, the worst part of The Dark Knight for me was Batman. I don’t mean Christian Bale as Batman because Bale was fine as Bruce Wayne. I mean Nolan’s presentation of Batman - stiff, silly smoker’s growl, overly reliant on gadgets and (barely perceivable) ass-kicking (instead of the detective work and just the sheer amount of self-loathing that represents the most interesting aspects of the comic book character).

    For example, there was a shot of Batman in the film where he’s standing on a rooftop, watching over Gotham City at night. It’s an iconic shot - there must be one of those kinds of shots in every movie or comic book or cartoon about Batman. The only problem? In The Dark Knight, he’s standing like a mannequin, unmoving, when Nolan should’ve had him crouched, like a gargoyle. Of course, Bale in his batsuit probably can’t even sit in a chair.

    So, overall, loved the movie, but whenever the focus shifted to Batman, I felt myself being bored just a little even though I love the character.

    Posted 23 Jul 2008 at 5:36 pm ¶

62. Dan wrote:

    I’m glad you enjoyed the movie LaToya, however please…for the sake of all things holy, stop with the ZOMG ELEVENTY!!!

    Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 8:13 am ¶

63. Pookumssays wrote:

    I enjoyed this movie overall, but as an Asian American, came away with a lot of uneasy feelings. Had I known that the portrayal of the Chinese (and all Asians by extension: lets face it, most Americans still can’t tell or don’t care to tell a difference) was yet another propogandist “Yellow Peril” representation, honestly, I would have saved my ten bucks and encouraged my friends to do the same. Hit Hollywood where it hurts, in the accounting department, ha. This was a truly cheap shot (though perhaps literally expensive for the maker’s of the film) - to buy into the whole anti-Chinese sentiment that has been broiling America (part of a whole history of discrimination against the Chinese in this country, starting with making it illegal for Chinese to immigrate in the 1880’s, the first immigration exclusion laws based solely on race, in this “land of immigrants.”) “Lau” was indeed completely un-developed; no doubt the writers, director and other decision makers counted on the audience to fill in his stereotypically “inscrutable and immoral, yet ultimately emasculated” character with their own prejudices, just as no explanation was needed for the mob boss, referred to “the Italian,” or for the other guy with a (Latin) accent, depicted as a greasy haired goon. I think this is one of the most intelligent and saavy (there is a difference) sites on race and pop culture and was a bit disappointed at how some of the readers (whom I consider to be proud anti-racists and extremely conscious individuals) were quick to point out the basically token POC in this movie as being positive portrayals. I guess we all would like to sit back and enjoy a Hollywood blockbuster now and then, and pretend we either 1. can identify with the majority and just enjoy a (brainless) action film or 2. as POC be sated with crumbs and try to fish for all the positives in a sea of negatives - until its our own people that are constantly villainzed and de-humanized. Although this movie is less racist than some others I have made the mistake of seeing, it’s sad that we recognize these as the standards, which is why I stay away from mainstream films, which are made with the lowest common denominator in mind. The Dark Knight portrays Asians (and since there is only ONE “character”, unless you were to go in with a microscope, I didn’t see any other Asians in a city with over 10 million of us at all socioeconomic levels, all religions and professions and all nationalities, many of us are US born with families that have been American for generations, in all five borroughs, this is ridiculous (besides at the press conference, which could have been filled with “international” reporters), as being 1. foreign 2. evil 3. corrupt and inscrutable 4. ultimately emasculated and powerless. Does it matter that Lau got to wear a fancy suit? I find the fact that this was brought up at all to be ridiculous; he wears a fancy suit (and not cheap clothing) because the movie makers want a mainstream America to fear the economic power of the new China - not because they want him to look good. He still winds up kidnapped and dumped on the sidewalk like a bag of garbage in one scene. This generated a lot of nasty laughter - (Ya’ll know the type I’m talking about. Just like when the one of the African American villains was killed when a pencil got slammed into his eye and presumably into his brain, the whole audience roared.) Lau ends up being burned alive on top of a pile of money. Precisely because many of the commentators on here remarked that they didn’t realize or remember what had happened to Lau makes me think that the filmmakers were successful in their propaganda: provide a few cheap laughs at the chinaman’s expense, then dispose of him as a colored and therefore worthless body, on top of a pile of currency, showing the ultimate powerlessness of China, which has come to be a stand-in for Asia in general in the minds of the American public. Also, where the heck were the Asian Americans? This film could have saved itself by having a couple of Asian Americans, without accents as we Americans, of Asian decent don’t have accents - it’s not genetic you know! - in small but visible roles, maybe a police person handing in a report, saying “here you go,” a clerk in an office, a waiter in the fancy restaurant, whatever. The film “allowed him to have light accent”? This comment is shocking. What if he doesn’t actually have an accent? You know, there are plenty of Asians, born and raised in Asia without heavy accents or accents as well. It’s all a matter of scocio-economics. Why does he have to have an accent at all? Have our standards sunk this low; have we really bought into racist and racialized ideology so much?

    Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 12:57 pm ¶

64. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Pookum -

    Good points.

    Specifically in reference to this:

    Precisely because many of the commentators on here remarked that they didn’t realize or remember what had happened to Lau makes me think that the filmmakers were successful in their propaganda: provide a few cheap laughs at the chinaman’s expense, then dispose of him as a colored and therefore worthless body,

    There’s that. Or I also mentioned I left my glasses :-). I saw a figure at the top, didn’t know who it was.

    Outside of this, your points are all valid. I am well aware that many Asians in the US speak with no accent (generally because they are native speakers of English) but for some reason, that does not jive with the preconceived idea of what “Asian” is in the eyes of Hollywood screenwriters and casting agents.

    I had a few issues with the film from an AR standpoint (like the representation of Gambol and other African Americans, including a mammyish looking commenter from the press conference) but there wasn’t really a WTF moment as we had in say “Live Free or Die Hard.”

    That doesn’t excuse things, by any means, and yes our standards might be lower due to the onslaught of ridiculousness in summer movies. But I feel like Nolan’s film is more thoughtful with reference to actually using minorities in acting roles than the average film, even with the flaws.

    Even still, the leads are still white, the main side characters are white. So there’s that.

    Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 1:34 pm ¶

65. Kelsey wrote:

    Maybe it was the way that they wrote Rachel Dawes, but part of me liked her more in the first movie.

    I REALLY hated that “made in America” BS.

    Now, as for the “dumped on the sidewalk” thing and the Magic Trick - c’mon, those would have been funny no matter what nationality the guys would have been - Chinese, Russian, Canadian, American, whatever. But I see your point - most mainstream movies feature white people.

    And I’m glad they didn’t flesh out Lau’s character more - he’s a minor villain. While they worked in the necessity of his character into the plot very well, it still felt like he wasn’t integral to the overall movie, that they didn’t need to spend so much time on a minor character. It felt like it wasn’t necessary to work a money launderer of ANY nationality into the plot at all. It felt like a very engaging, pretty, but distracting, sidequest that muddled the plot enough that while, for the rest of the movie, I was focused on the other main characters (of which there were plenty), I forgot why exactly the money launderer, and even the mob, were so important. It makes sense when you step back, take an effort to recall everything, and go, Oh, yeah, the mob was important because of cleaning up the city (and they weren’t just going to dissipate with the death of Falcone) and the establishment of Harvey Dent as Gotham’s elected (as opposed to self-appointed) savior, the White Knight, and the mob was also important in unleashing the Joker (which I don’t buy. This guy pulled a major heist on his own, and he certainly didn’t need the mob’s money to be motivated to wreak havoc. The Joker’s capable of stuff without the mob)…

    The plot was VERY well put together, but there were so many details that were key, yet easily forgotten amongst the action and drama and moral dilemmas of the Joker and Harvey Dent and Batman (and I disagree on the movie promoting secret surveillance techniques - Lucius Fox made it VERY clear that it was wrong, and as he and Alfred are the strongest moral compasses in the movie, I think that speaks VERY strongly. They were the moral compasses. The Joker, Harvey Dent, and Batman were the moral fuzzy areas.

    And I must say I loved the ferries part. Indeed - the power of the mob and anonymity. Everyone’s perfectly fine with going along with the group and shouting and calling for action, but nobody wants to do the dirty deed. They made that clear rather than emphasizing (though it was there) too much the self-sacrifice and refusal to turn into monsters.

    The first movie had a more clean plot - smaller focus and therefore could provide greater depth. But The Dark Knight did a fabulous job even while it seemed to have more details than it could really focus on (seriously, what was the Scarecrow doing there? He was in there for what, five minutes? Why?).

    Oh, also? I don’t think the thing with, “Oh, Lau burned alive? I didn’t realize” wasn’t about “disposing of him as a colored and therefore worthless body”. I think it just accidentally got lost in the focus on how the Joker really - doesn’t - care - about - money. He just likes chaos.

    Of course, I AM a big fan of the idea that sometimes, a cigar is really just a cigar. Also, keep in mind that, while this excuses nothing, for many, racism can be subconscious. People, and not just whites, people in GENERAL, tend to favor those who they identify with and resemble. White people aren’t the most racist people. They’re just the ones who, by luck of the draw, have been in power and oppressing. Doesn’t mean that the oppressed aren’t guilty of racism. Anyways, so when white people are featured prominently in many films… like I said. People group themselves according to similarities, not differences. There’s actually a REALLY great article on inherent disposition against gathering in diverse groups that I read a few months ago… Very interesting.

    Even so, everybody should still TRY to get past their prejudices. I was pissed to hear that the American flag bearer failed to tip the flag in respect when passing the stand of the president of the hosting country (China) at the opening ceremony for the Olympics, as opposed to the other 200 something country-representing flag bearers. Booooooo. So much for peace and unification and crossing boundaries and borders!

    Posted 10 Aug 2008 at 4:45 am ¶

66. Lee wrote:

    Hi Folks. Ive enjoyed reading all the takes and wanted to throw a couple of my own into the mix.

    On the Lau issue…
    First, let me say one of the things that disappointed me about TDK was that a lot the script seemed to “take the easy way out”, or was dumbed down, being written in contexts that were (and, unfortunately, probably are) most easily digestible to the largest possible audience, ie catering to post-911 conditioning (but without any real insight), stereotypical criminal arch-types, some ridiculously corny one-liners, etc, etc. That said:

    - I suspect the creation of the role of “Lau”, specifically being Chinese based in Hong Kong, was a plot set-up and justification for Nolan and crew to use their fancy new IMAX cameras in the most realistically spectacular possible setting they could think of, ie the impressive Hong Kong skyline. As Nolan’s angle with his Batman series is “realism”, the Chinese/Hong Kong avenue was probably the most easily rationalized and the most convenient place to play with their new toys. The scenes leading up to, during the stomach-churning flight/abduction, and the subsequent air retrieval would not have been as beautiful (or as realistic) in another setting. I honestly cant think of a better location, so Im sure they couldnt either. Ergo, to justify their movie magic, they had to contrive a convenient reason for the Batman to visit.

    I had the pleasure of watching TDK with my friend, who politically falls somewhere to the left of Michael Moore, and his new Taiwanese bride. I chuckled to myself more than once observing him squirm in his chair at what he clearly perceived as anti-asian sentiment, while his wife was grinning ear to ear throughout the film and pumping her fists with delight everytime the Joker kicked someones ass. I suppose some of the more subtle points and implications could have been lost in translation, but she didnt seem very offended. Thats not to say that I think any of the opinions expressed here are invalid in anyway, but, that gal is as sharp and as perceptive a person as I know and if she didnt walk away saying “WTF was up with that?” then I will simply chalk it up to all to0 convenient, if not clumsy, script writing… but maybe that was the point in the first place?

    One thing that had me scratching my head waaay before I even saw the film was the casting of Aaron Eckhardt (sp) as Harvey Dent / Two Face, a character who has traditionally been portrayed as an African-American. Also, and maybe Im getting my franchises mixed up, but wasnt Gambol and his crew historically a white gang? No biggy there I guess.

    Also, I couldnt agree more on the pro-Morgan Freeman comments, who is consistantly excellent and is deserving of more leading roles!

    Thats it I guess.

    Y’all take care!

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 3:04 pm ¶

67. Lee wrote:

    One more thing real quick…

    RE: The speculation TDK had a conservative agenda:

    Hmmm, things are never as simple as they seem and I certainly havent dismissed the possibility that there could be more than meets the eye with this film. But please consider the following…

    Consider the treatment of firearms in the film. Did you notice that the Batman initiates each action sequence by disarming his opponent and then dismantling the gun with his bare hands. He does this a dozen or so times. To me, there is a clear “only bad guys use guns” message in the film. Yes, Gordon and the neutral prop characters carried them, but they were of no consequence and, further, a firearm is never used to a positive end in the entire film, save the “capture” of the Joker after the streetfight. Even Harvey Dent wasnt strapped and disarmed his opponent, breaking the gun in the process, when he was acting in the role of a hero, and only turned to using a gun for menace and ill-intent as he decended into evil. Anyway, not exactly a right-wing message.

    For the record, by the way, I thought the execution of the “Always buy American” dialogue was very poor, though I think it was trying to convey a message between Dent and Maroni that he was on to his connection to Lau. Still, it made me wince, HARD. Poor execution! Poor script writing. Besides, who is really being insulted by being declared the superior manufacturer of tools of destruction?

    also

    If a film was pushing a right-wing agenda would it be wise of them to make the “terrorist” infinately more appealing, even sympathetic on certain levels, than the “hero”

    I dunno, more to say, no more time.

    Y’all take care!

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 3:28 pm ¶

68. Lee wrote:

    D’oh!

    I know Ive already taken up more than my fair share of space on the comments thread BUT I made a critical error on my “anti guns” point…

    I said:
    “Yes, Gordon and the neutral prop characters carried them, but they were of no consequence and, further, a firearm is never used to a positive end in the entire film, save the “capture” of the Joker after the streetfight.”

    That is dead wrong! I forgot that the whole crux of the film’s climactic action sequence was the hero trying to deprive an armed-to-the-teeth police force of their guns before they mistakenly blew-away a bunch of innocents, whom they perceived as “terrorists” also armed-to-the teeth… adding to the tension of the sequence as the hero, critically short of time, must go out of his away to take people’s guns away before they hurt someone.

    Dont get me wrong, I am in no way, shape or form trying to ignite a debate over the Second ammendment or the NRA!

    I am simply pointing out that, with the exception of the apprehension of the Joker scene, Nolan and company continuously portray firearms as negative objects of destruction which the hero, who clearly has contempt for the them, spends an inordinant amount of time disabling or destroying. Ergo, guns are bad, mm’kay? Or at least that was the message I got, which isnt exactly conservative in orientation.

    ps - I know I used Ergo improperly, twice. I like to think of my GSP skills as “creative”, so shoot me

    Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 4:26 pm ¶

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