Mexico’s Famed Monkey-Boy is Back, Black and on Wal-Mart Shelves

by Special Correspondent Nadra Kareem

Mexico’s favorite monkey-boy, Memin Pinguin, may now find an audience in the U.S. That’s because Wal-Mart has decided to carry the reissued comic books series, first released in the 1960s. There’s just one problem. Memin Pinguin isn’t simply a monkey-boy but referred to in the series as a “Negro.”

With that description comes all of the negatives associated with blackness. Other characters, who apparently beat him at various points, regard him as “stupid” and a “troublemaker.” Also of note is that one of the newly released comics includes a storyline about Memin Pinguin running for office, which some believe is an allusion to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign.*

Though it seems clear that a comic book featuring a “Negro” monkey-boy is offensive, Mexican dignitaries think otherwise. Not only have they defended the country’s love for the comic book figure, they also issued a stamp in commemoration of Memin Pinguin in 2005. To the critics from the North, they say, because Americans don’t understand the culture, they have no right to object to the character.

I beg to differ. In the 1950s and ’60s, when the U.S. made headlines for its Jim Crow policies, dignitaries from a range of countries spoke out about segregation, refusing to kowtow to the notion that Jim Crow was simply the Southern (American) way of life, a way of life they couldn’t grasp. The same went for our “peculiar institution” of slavery. And the same goes for Memim Pinguin.

He may only be a comic book character, but, by portraying this little black child as something less than human, the book sets the stage for children to further dehumanize blacks. Not only is this of concern to blacks in Mexico, the bulk of whom can be found in the Vera Cruz region, this is of concern to the blacks throughout Latin America, where the books also have a large following. Thanks to Wal-Mart’s decision to carry the Memin Pinguin series, now the comic book is of concern to American blacks as well.

Wal-Mart is an establishment I already strive to avoid, but the company’s decision to carry the reissued Memin Pinguin books only strengthens my resolve never to shop there again. What will they pedal next—lawn jockeys? But is it surprising that a corporation known for failing to provide employees with fair wages, medical benefits and the right to unionize would have no qualms about promoting a book for children that, at its core, serves to dehumanize?

As for the Mexican people’s supposed love for Memin Pinguin, I admit to knowing little about popular culture there. But what I do know is that there is a dearth of actors with indigenous and African heritage featured in television programming in Mexico, and, when such actors are featured, it’s usually to fill a stereotypical role, such as a maid. I do know that indigenous people in the country all too often fall at the very bottom of the socioeconomic totem pole there, with no way to work themselves up. So little is their worth that hundreds of indigenous women who work in Chihuahua’s factories have been systematically raped, tortured and killed for more than a decade, and no one has been held responsible. Despite international outcry, it is apparently acceptable for the country’s elite to hunt these women for sport.

Even if Mexico were a model of egalitarianism, Memim Pinguin would remain a character worthy of our censure, but the fact that the country has much progress to make in this arena makes it imperative that we speak (and act) out against any figure, real or otherwise, which serves to dehumanize a portion of its population.

*Editor’s Note: Check out this video for more insight into what the books actually contain. The book in question appears to have been published before Obama announced his candidacy.

(Thanks to Cheryl Lynn for sending this in!)

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. what…mexico has a monkey-boy too? « revolution of the lilies on 10 Jul 2008 at 11:42 am

    [...] 10, 2008 at 4:42 pm (anti-racism, chiapas) yep.  and wal-mart has decided to honor the racist comic books about a little monkey boy named: negro.  of course mexico does…no matter how many times [...]

  2. Alas, a blog » Blog Archive » Memín Pinguín on 16 Jul 2008 at 6:46 am

    [...] blogging about Memin Pinguin: Occasional Superheroine, Racialicious, Ann at “Beautiful, Also…”, and The Comics [...]

  3. Letter from the Editrix at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 04 Aug 2008 at 10:37 am

    [...] Memin Penguin thread got really ugly for those of us on the back end here. One of my writers was accused of not [...]

Comments

  1. VELMA SABINA!!! wrote:

    Barf.

  2. J wrote:

    didn’t wal-mart, a couple years back, refuse to sell the doll that could give birth? and this is better for kids, then?

    riiiiiight.

  3. Roger Green wrote:

    “You just don’t understand” has long been an excuse for intolerrance. “We need to profile Muslims because YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND the risk to America.” “We’re going to sell this [racist] comic book because YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND the culture.”

    Wotta crock.

  4. Threadbared wrote:

    My colleague Kirstie Dorr, an assistant professor of gender and women’s studies and Latina/o studies at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, actually wrote a brilliant paper about the Memin Penguin stamp and comic books. I can’t do her argument justice off the top of my head, so I’ll see if I can find my notes on her paper somewhere….

  5. Natalie wrote:

    I’m not the least bit surprised that Walmart would carry this book. Isn’t this the same company that hired illegal immigrants a few years back and wouldn’t even pay them minimum wage???

  6. Philly Phil wrote:

    there’s a dearth of actors with indigenous and African heritage featured in television programming in the ENTIRE world! and when such actors are featured, it’s usually to fill a stereotypical role…. again, in the entire world.

    memin pinguin is a character that is/was loved in mexico. i always hated how the character was drawn and i mean HATED. as a character, memin pinguin would be subject to racial taunts but the people taunting him were always cast as the villain.

    in the past, memin had experienced very real and emotional issues because of the color of his skin. there was a story where memin read about how cleopatra would bathe in milk to make her skin lighter. When memin’s mother catches him in the act, and becomes emotionally distraught over it, memin decides to take pride in his race and color (which is Afro-Cuban, by the way). other storylines include his crisis of faith because some kid tells him blacks aren’t allowed in heaven (evidenced by the lack of black angels in church paintings). with the help of a priest, memin paints one of the angels black.

    what’s distracting and upsetting about memin pinguin is the atrocious way he is drawn. mexico is no better than the rest of the world and the world’s cultures in the way they depict minorities. but there’s no excuse for it. but mexico’s problem has never been about race… it has always been about class.

    for the record, mexico was the first nation to abolish slavery and was also the first to recognize all persons as equal, regardless of race. you can count José Maria Morelos y Pavon, President Juan Alvarez Benítez, Vicente Guerrero as famous Mexican leaders who could count slaves as their ancestors.

    sheeeeeeeeit! Vicente Guerrero emancipated the slaves in 1828! Abe Lincoln was 9 years old when that happened! And it took a war for the US to actually do that. That was not the case for Mexico.

  7. Fiqah wrote:

    “Though it seems clear that a comic book featuring a ‘Negro’ monkey-boy is offensive, Mexican dignitaries think otherwise. Not only have they defended the country’s love for the comic book figure, they also issued a stamp in commemoration of Memin Pinguin in 2005.”

    [*Chokes on her lunch*]

  8. Heather wrote:

    “So little is their worth that hundreds of indigenous women who work in Chihuahua’s factories have been systematically raped, tortured and killed for more than a decade, and no one has been held responsible. Despite international outcry, it is apparently acceptable for the country’s elite to hunt these women for sport.”

    A few things. 1) I think this subject (the murders in Ciudad Juarez) would be a topic one of the contributors might want to write about.

    2) Why do you think that these women were killed by “the country’s elite” or that it was “for sport”? Was there a specific article you read or something you saw on TV?

    I suspect that isn’ the case. Generally speaking, murder victims and their killers come from 1) the same socio-economic class and 2) the same racial or ethnic group. I have not read as much about this case as I might, but what I have read so far does not point to this being a case of the upper class preying on poor factory workers. Except in the obvious way, of paying them low wages in poor working conditions. But not as far as the murders go.

  9. Bang Gully wrote:

    Philly Phil –

    It may be mostly about class in mexico but again class is highly intertwined with race. White Spaniard Mexicans being at the top while indigene and meztizos taking the rest of the spots.

  10. Mary wrote:

    Isn’t this the same company that hired illegal immigrants a few years back and wouldn’t even pay them minimum wage???

    Yep. But that at least makes sense in an Evil Corporate Logic way – better for the bottom line if you pay people as little as you can get away with paying them.

    What confuses me about Memin is – do they think the profits from the comic book will be greater than the sales they lose from outraged customers? More frighteningly, would they be correct in thinking this?

  11. Bang Gully wrote:

    I’ve gotta say, the anti-racist crowd in here has gotta be some of the most unhealthy people around. Everytime something that can be even slightly offensive gets mentioned, somebody throws up.

  12. Anonymous wrote:

    Imagine if this were about Italian, Irish or Jewish people. It would never happen, nor should this.

  13. Mickey wrote:

    @ VELMA SABINA!!!

    Barf^2

  14. atlasien wrote:

    I think racism in Mexico isn’t better or worse than America… it’s just very different.

    Mexico does have a good record in some areas. During the American Civil War, when representatives from the Confederacy went to Mexico to ask for aid and neutrality, then-president Benito Juarez immediately denounced them and threw them in jail.

    The voices here that are missing are black Mexicans. Do they love Memin as much as the Memin defenders claim? I kind of doubt it.

  15. Nadra wrote:

    Heather, I lived in El Paso, Tex., which is across from Ciudad Juarez, for nearly two years. The commonly held belief is that the people killing the women are elite, in the senses that, yes, they come from a wealthy social class, or, two, they are government officials. There’s also the possibility that the killers are both. I’d recommend doing a Google search about the murders and typing in the name Diana Washington Valdez, a leading journalist on this issue. As for the race/class argument, I agree with Bang Gully. If it were simply about class, why are all of the “dark” people at the bottom of the totem pole. As for pop culture, while representation is an issue worldwide, numerous countries have made advances in portraying people of color as three-dimensional people. While I am glad, Memin Pinguin has had some positive storylines, such storylines are trumped by the portrayal of the little black boy as something less than human.

  16. otra vez! wrote:

    “I admit to knowing little about popular culture there”
    This is the magic phrase in this article, isn’t it?

    I’m not going to get into it in depth, but let’s just say that “negro” means “black” in Spanish. It is not an insult. It is not the Spanish equivalent for the N-word. Mexicans and other people from Latin America have their own racial insults used to refer to Blacks that have nothing to do with the word “negro”, but of course you wouldn’t know that, would you?
    This counts the billionth time people jump the gun and assume a completely neutral word is offensive, an assumption based on ignorance and a belief that the whole world is just a facsimile of your own.

    I care very much about issues of race and ethnicity in the US, and am an avid Racialicious reader. I find the Memin Pinguin character very troubling, specially since Mexico has a very small Black population that is not usually represented in the country’s popular culture. There are a lot of issues with the character’s representation, and the fact that he is at least a little bit racist is beyond question.

    However, i am constantly appalled at the way issues relating to Hispanic/Latinos and Latin American culture are treated here. Assigning an article about a popular Mexican cartoon character to a person who feels no qualms about announcing her unfamiliarity to the culture, and who makes unfounded assertions about words written in a language she doesn’t understand is so typical of the site’s myopic and dismissive coverage of Latino and Latin American issues. I understand that US Latinos and people from Latin American don’t really share a race or an ethnic identity at all, and referring to us in a discussion of race and ethnicity is always problematic, but come on. If you go to the “hispanic” and “latino” tags on this site every single article is below-par, filled with stereotypes, usually written by a self-hating Latino (Alex from Racialicious? She writes she’s more comfortable with “white culture” because she eats cheerios and grew up with the teenage mutant ninja turtles, that should have raised some flags right there. Consumption of American popular culture and breakfast cereals has yet to have any transforming effects on my racial and ethnic identity, but ok), and replete with commenters who either appear to be completely unfamiliar with Hispanic culture (really? never met a Hispanic person at all ever? ) or who are frankly hostile and dismissive of any and all Hispanic issues. Give me a break, come on!

  17. otra vez! wrote:

    *I meant to write “Alex from Guanabee” not “from Racialicious”.

  18. Bang Gully wrote:

    Thank you otra vez. I don’t know why but it felt good to read what you wrote.

  19. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Otra Vez –

    Fair enough.

    Some notes on your criticism:

    1. I’m not going to get into it in depth, but let’s just say that “negro” means “black” in Spanish Aware of that, but if you check out the video I linked to at the bottom, that is how it is being seen in the US market. I left Nadra’s analysis as is because it is still troubling to see MP referred to specifically as “black.”

    2. Assigning an article about a popular Mexican cartoon character to a person who feels no qualms about announcing her unfamiliarity to the culture, and who makes unfounded assertions about words written in a language she doesn’t understand is so typical of the site’s myopic and dismissive coverage of Latino and Latin American issues.

    As I have said before, we are a volunteer run site, and news items are picked up by the people who have time to do them. If someone is busy, someone else picks it up. One of the issues I run into is not “ghettoizing” the writers here. So while I could punt all mixed issues to Carmen and Thea, all queer issues to Wendi, all Asian man issues to Luke, all Asian women issues to Jenn, all Muslim issues to Fatemeh and all Black Issues to myself and Nadra, it’s not a habit I would want to get into. It is also not feasible, because sometimes, things need coverage.

    I talked about the Kristallnacht issue thought I am not Jewish and I will be talking about another LJ issue (involving Muslims) shortly. I also tackle queer issues and a whole lot of things outside of my experience, because if I do not do so, they won’t be covered. And, sometimes my go-to people for cultural guidance are busy. They have lives and jobs, and Racialicious does not offer compensation to it’s writers.

    So, in a nutshell, I don’t see an issue with asking someone to cover an issue that popped up in the media that does not directly pertain to their ethnic group. Personal narratives would be a bit problematic, but not really a media response piece. And as long as we acknowledge – as Nadra did – that we are speaking from a different perspective, it tends to work out.

    I understand that US Latinos and people from Latin American don’t really share a race or an ethnic identity at all, and referring to us in a discussion of race and ethnicity is always problematic

    That it is. There is a tremendous amount of difficulty in covering Latino/Hispanic issues here because I am never sure what the response will be.

    Sometimes, it’s nothing – I wrote an article about a Fast Company write up of a Latina marketing entrepreneur who built a business by bucking stereotypes about Latinas – and heard nothing. Crickets in the comments section.

    I cross-posted work from Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez, and got feedback that not only is she a self-hating Latina, but she also hates blacks.

    I cross-posted work from Alex Alvarez, who works on Guanabee and covers Latin@ issues and she also appears to be self-hating by your estimate.

    We’ve had Megan from VivrLatino rep here, and we could cross post more, no doubt, but again, her articles get few responses.

    I have spoken to some bloggers like Daniel Hernandez and Laura Martinez, but the issues they discuss are complicated and need more of a breakdown before I present them on the site. For example, Laura Martinez sent me some info on ads run by Spanish language publications unfavorably comparing Barack Obama to a Dominican. But to put that on the site would mean breaking down that issue to something that our readers – who span ages and racial groups – would understand, assuming no knowledge of cultural issues between Latinos of different groups.

    And then marks the question of how to cover Latin@ issues at all especially considering if the term is even of use any more. And I would need someone to help walk readers through a dynamic so complicated that many Latin@s do not agree on how to properly identify.

    And through all that, I still have to find writers willing to set aside time, write the piece, and submit it – while things still hit the news every day.

    So, in sum, I am well aware of ALL of the groups on the site that are underserved. But, as I have said before, it takes time to cultivate relationships, and to convince people to write (1) for free and (2) for this audience and then (3) to get them to write consistently.

    As always, the offer for writing a rebuttal or a n alternate viewpoint on a piece is wide open. Matt Egan just did one, you can too. Just be prepared for the brutal editing process.

    -LDP

  20. Philly Phil wrote:

    @ atlesian – i agree. the voices we do not hear in this argument are those of black Mexicans.

    @ nadra and bang gully – the internal strife in mexico that led to the revolution had to do with rich land owners and the poor farmers who worked the land. it was the promotion of industry at the expense of the working class. the working class was made of people of multitudes of color and racial backgrounds. their economic status in the “totem pole” is what united them.

    to say that ALL of the “dark” people are at the “bottom of the totem pole” is divisive and misinformed. first of all, what constitutes “dark”? and, by that rationale, are all “light” people at the top of the tomem pole?

    however, nadra, your final point echoes a lot of what i hope came across with my initial post. “While I am glad, Memin Pinguin has had some positive storylines, such storylines are trumped by the portrayal of the little black boy as something less than human.”

    all of you interested in the afro-mexican presence should definitely look up Gaspar Yanga.

    a writer whose name escapes me once wrote “the greatest distance between two people is culture”. so please, i urge you, dedicate as much time as you do searching for specific histories in Mexico related to your own ethnicity to researching as much Mexican history as you can as well. Only by viewing the bigger picture of Mexico and mi gente, can we maybe gain some uderstanding about this complex issue.

  21. Nadra wrote:

    Otra Vez, you are making major assumptions about me. For one, I said that I had little knowledge of Mexican pop culture, which is true. Having knowledge of Mexican pop culture and Mexican culture are two different things entirely. Secondly, nowhere in the article did I take offense at the term Negro. I know what Negro means in Spanish. I know derogatory terms Mexicans use for blacks, such as mayate. On the other hand, I know that a term like “moreno” for a black person isn’t offensive. As I mentioned earlier in this comment thread, I lived in a border town for about two years. That coupled with my relationships with Latinos from a broad range of backgounds in L.A. and Chicago hardly makes me clueless about “Latino” culture, if you want to lump all Latinos into a group, as you seem to be doing in your comment. Anyway, I’m sorry you feel that Racialicious has done a poor job covering Latinos, but your assumptions about me are way off the mark. I suggest you heed your own advice and not comment about matters (in this case, me) that you know nothing about.

  22. Philly Phil wrote:

    @ otra vez – the unfamiliarity of the author bothered me, too. hence, why i took the time to explain as much about MP that i remembered from back in the day as well as what i remember reading for my Latin American studies class.

    but c’mon, man (i’m assuming you’re a guy. get on my ass about that later if i’m wrong). let’s not be self-defeating here. latinos unidos y jamas vencidos, remember? so we might disagree with a blogger but throwing out the old “self-hater” tag is just combative. it ends the debate and starts the fight. it’s personal and disgusting.

    i grew up loving to read and always with a book in hand. naturally, my vocabulary grew. how many times did i have to hear “sell-out” from my own peeps just because i grew smarter? how many times did i have to defend myself with anger and scraped knuckles? looking back to those days, i’m always surprised at how those who hurled those insults were the ones who hated themselves.

    i ain’t calling you a self-hater. but labelling alex one because she’s being honest not only with herself but with a forum full of strangers is just wrong. i grew up with cheerios and ninja turtles, too. but i also grew up with my mom watching Rosa Salvaje, spending my summers en el Rancho with all my primos, playing canicas with the mocosos down the hill, going to el rosario, watching Chiquilladas (’member? you ‘member). ahhh… so much love, so many memories.

    Because Alex didn’t experience that doesn’t make me angry, just kind of sad. She missed out on a lot. But to each their own.

    @ Latoya – i think i’m going to take you up on that offer.

  23. Philly Phil wrote:

    @ Nadra – ChiTown Where You At?!

  24. otra vez! wrote:

    Sigh. What else can you expect? Hostile, hostile, hostile. Way to go!

  25. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @PhillyPhil –

    Please do. The more voices and more perspectives we have on this site, the better.

    The other issue I have is one of those catch-22s : no coverage, no tips; more coverage, more tips. So if we can’t or don’t cover something throughly, that group of people doesn’t come to the site; if we cover something, but it gets no comments, those writers who cover those issues will not want to write for the site; if we don’t have the writers, we don’t get the commenters; if we don’t get the commenters we don’t get the tips or the writers; and so on…

  26. Barry Deutsch wrote:

    Update: WalMart has decided to remove the comic from its shelves.

  27. Nadra wrote:

    Philly Phil,

    When Latoya asked me to write about this topic, I told her that I was indeed familiar with Memin Pinguin. Two years ago I had a discussion about the character wih a friend of mine who was raised in Puebla. I didn’t just discover this character and up and decide to write about him. Your suggestion that we study another culture as much as our own is off point. What makes you think I haven’t studied other cultures as thoroughly as my own? In fact, if there’s any culture I am nearly familiar with as much as my own it probably is Mexican or Chicano culture. Just because I am not Mexican does not make me completely clueless, and I resent the insinuation. I will admit to not having read Memin Pinquin, and I thank you for pointing out some story lines. However, I have also not read Little Black Sambo, but do I really need to to understand that the character is offensive and racist? It seems the discussion about this character has turned into a very ethnocentric discussion. Essentially, you are telling me the same thing that Mexican officials who defend Mexico’s love for the character say: “It’s a Mexican thing, you wouldn’t understand.” That kind of comment is antithetical to any meaningful discussion about issues of race.

  28. Nadra wrote:

    Sorry, Philly Phil. I should not have addressed that comment specifically to you.

  29. La Mala wrote:

    excuse me, but who are we kidding. “negro” can be a neutral term, or an extremely negative term, depending on how it’s used , and most importantly, the inflection a person uses when saying it…sure there are worse terms, but it troubles me that in spanish there really is no 100 percent neutral term for black. negrito/a are endearing….negro can be neutral but can also be a bit dangerous… when one of my students calls the other “maldito negro”, you can guess what she means — “damned ni@@er”!…..and then from there it just goes south. maybe in mexico its different? because in el caribe, and in spain it ain’t neutral homey!!! better get off that high horse quick before you fall!!

  30. Philly Phil wrote:

    @ Nadra – yeah… i adressed that last part about researching a culture’s history that’s not your own to everybody and not you specifically.

    i am mexican-american, born and raised in the US, specifically Chicago. Chicago is a huge melting pot of people, but like a high school cafeteria, it’s highly self-segragated. just like any other kid growing up in the US, we learned about African-American history in schools. not as much as anyone would really qualify as an “education” but more than i learned about mexican-american history in the public schools. jealous much? yes i was. but i learned about african american history and those topics i wanted to learn more about i researched on my own. all mexican american and/or mexican history i was curious about was learned through independent reading.

    in chicago we have a beautiful mexican fine arts museum! i’m talking BEAUTIFUL. great exhibits come and go and i try to frequent the museum at least once a month. rarely do i see african american patrons but i never really looked for them, y’know? just looking at art, not taking a census. of course, when there was an exhibit about Gaspar Yanga, there were plenty of african american patrons. good for the museum, as they can always use the revenue and great for those black folks who wouldn’t have experienced the MFAM if not for this exhibit.

    but it struck as how uneven the knowledge of one another’s cultures stands. for any two cultures, for that matter. we need a uniting cause. what that would be is beyond me? but never have i been more surprised and proud as when the MayDay Parade passed by my office and I saw Mexican, Ukrainian, Polish, Korean, Puerto-Rican, and Irish flags floating above the masses.

    this post is already too long… thanks for reading.

  31. L. wrote:

    As always, while I enjoy reading these comments (especially hearing about the concerns of the Hispanic/Latino(a) readers), I do want to point out that amongst the arguing about the writers unfamiliarity with Mexican pop. culture, we seem to be ignoring the fact that she’s taking the perspective of a black person in the US where these comics were to appear on the market. I completely agree that it is discouraging when someone who presents information about a culture (or a certain aspect of it) has little-to-no intimacy with it; however, had the comics hit US markets, whatever they contained would have been translated into US cultural standards. Therefore, regardless of what may or may not be offensive in Mexico, millions of African-Americans would have been deeply disturbed to walk into a Wal-Mart to find a little black boy portrayed as a monkey in the comics sitting on the shelves. Given the history of blacks (and other minorities) being compared to as monkeys, it wouldn’t have sat well with me had I seen this in my local Wal-Mart. So while respect and knowledge of a culture/history and its byproducts are necessary and welcomed, in this case I don’t think it was wrong to tie the images and portrayals of the comic to the offensive nature that it would have taken on in the US. I mean, c’mon, we were up in arms when the Obama/Curious George shirts hit and Curious George ain’t never hurt nobody.

    ps.- I personally don’t think that the reference to the word “negro” was meant to elude to it’s offensive nature, but rather to point out that the monkey is clearly of the Negro race.

    pps.- How does one go about submitting articles to be considered for this blog?

  32. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Oh well, the character is back in the news. I really had wished his revival was a fad, back in the days when the stamp came out I started a thread to talk about it on Mr. Dwayne McDuffie’s forum (you gotta know who he is). I started defending the character as many mexicans do and learned a lot of things in the thread, I ended up hating the character, what i can tell you is that this whole conflict is misunderstood from both sides since the offensive imagery that Memín represents is way out of context in Mexico, that by no means justifies that it’s being sold in USA, i can’t see why they sell it there, but the fact was most mexicans thought the problem was the character was black, what he did, we’re so ignorant about the story of this imagery (as you’d be about anything else if you’re never been exposed to it) that most mexicans never even understood that the problem was the way the character was drawn!

    The Memin character was created in a really old comic called Pepin, (I believe there is a racist character called Pepin but I don’t know if there’s any relation, comics in Mexico back in the day were called Pepines, maybe even because of this comic, I’m not that old to know) doing some research in the delphi days I was amazed to learn that some Will Eisner’s Spirit reprints appeared in Pepin, so I suppose Eisner’s character Ebony White had some graphic influence on the character.

    Some americans i talked to on this issue acted like “what? didn’t you know it’s blatantly offensive?”, but to tell the truth, we don’t, I didn’t, and it’s wrong but it’d be nicer if people tried to explain why instead of yelling “racist” at me, we need , say, tv shows that speak on these historic subjects that are never covered, how can I, as a mexican, know that this imagery is racist when, for example, cartoons that are racially offensive in the usa are still aired on Mexico? who’s to blame in that specific case? the kids watching, or Warner Brothers?

    I thought the character’s appearance had been created graphically by Sixto Valencia but Sixto redesigned it from its early appearances, which were cruder. It has been mentioned that Memin is the only character drawn unrealistically on the comic, i don’t know if this was also the case on early appearances, his mother, while wearing “mammy”-styled clothes isn’t drawn so deformed. I don’t remember if any other black characters appeared on the comic, but I can tell that if they appeared, they didn’t look like Memin but were drawn more in the style of the other characters.

    Story-wise, Memin was created by Yolanda Vargas Dulche who created lots of other comics that were big sellers of the day, supposedly Yolanda was inspired to create Memin by some cuban kids he met while in Cuba (I can’t say but I bet Memin is supposed to be mexican, though).

    The race issue isn’t really the most important thing in the comics, much mentioned was a storyline where he travels to USA to some school sports contest with his classmates and is refused service at some restaurant, his fellas stand by him, but there’s also a story where he’s confused with a monkey

    I’ve recently read that some comics where Memin is running for president are causing controversy, actually this comics where he runs for president were printed when the publishers, Editorial Vid (whose president is creator Yolanda Vargas’ son) capitalized on the stamp scandal (actually the comic was a low-selling nostalgia title then) relaunched the comic. One thing why I think the scandal was a smokescreen, along with president Fox’s comments about blacks almost in the same month is because, well, I’m mexican and I’d never heard or seen the stamp in my life and american media got to know about it somehow.

    The “run for president” thing was because there were elections in Mexico at the time. What I don’t understand is why are those comics being sold right now in USA and I fully understand why it can be perceived as a dis to Obama, maybe it’s Vid’s president trying to capitalize on anything again with really bad taste.

    I read recently that the Memin’s comic reprints had got to a point where they ran out of issues drawn by Sixto Valencia (which actually are the ones they’ve been reprinting for more than 20 years now) and someone else started to draw them, I think that it would have been a good (but late) time to redesign the character to show good will, but fuck Vid.

    In Mexico people like Memin (I’d like to think fewer and fewer people as time goes by) just because of a nostalgia factor, they read it when they were kids so they buy it for their kids, I gotta say that the character’s race has little to do with it in the sense of they reading the comic to laugh on black people or something like that. I’d say that the wollywog imagery thing is so way out of context in this comic for the regular mexican reader. I was surprised to find images of KKK signs featuring Memin’s face, not because the character’s not rooted on wollywog imagery, but because the racial “climate” is so different in both countries that it’s hard to decontextualize, for mexicans as the Memin character, which represents positive things and for americans, where it represents blatant racism. That’s why the whole issue was misunderstood by the two parts.

    It was aknowledged that afromexican groups expressed their dislike of the character and I guess they’ve got a lot of reasons for that, but for what I read on some afromexican forums they didn’t care, some didn’t even understand the conflict, mexican media also played it wrong (on purpose I suppose) and it became something like “white house gringos butting in our business” than some cultural conflict that could have been used for both cultures to get to know each other better.

    I guess those who were more on the objective side spoke more honestly:

    http://www.suracapulco.com.mx/anterior/2005/julio/01/contraportada.jpg

    “Author from the Costa Chica celebrates that an afromexican character gets recognition”

    As I said, the racist imagery that the character represents is out of context, so it isn’t found offensive by many in Mexico.

    Another article:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/11/AR2005071101413.html

    Unlike thedays where I started defending the character, it’s not my point of view anymore, so i just wanted to show some sides of it.

  33. Ric Reyes wrote:

    By the way, I wonder if you’ve covered the reggaeton singer called “Nigga”

  34. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ L – yes, I thought the video I linked to did a good job in explaining the cultural translation issues involved.

    We have a very difficult submission process, consisting of the following parts:

    1. You write a piece.
    2. You email it to latoya@racialicious.com or team@racialicious.com
    3. I edit it.
    4. You revise it.
    5. I publish it.

    Okay, so it isn’t so difficult. ;-)

    All the basic stuff applies – in the Racialicious voice just means well thought out, good balance between academic and accessible, and more or less grammatically correct. We go by the AP Style Guide and Strunk and White. Make sure it is clear and concise and suitable for a wide range of people.

    And, that’s it!

    @Ric Reyes –

    1. So, it’s like TinTin, then? Or Johnny Quest?

    2. Nope, never heard of him. Have a link?

  35. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Sorry to post and post, just wanted to say sometthing on this comment:

    La Mala wrote:
    excuse me, but who are we kidding. “negro” can be a neutral term, or an extremely negative term, depending on how it’s used , and most importantly, the inflection a person uses when saying it…sure there are worse terms, but it troubles me that in spanish there really is no 100 percent neutral term for black. negrito/a are endearing….negro can be neutral but can also be a bit dangerous… when one of my students calls the other “maldito negro”, you can guess what she means — “damned ni@@er”!…..and then from there it just goes south. maybe in mexico its different? because in el caribe, and in spain it ain’t neutral homey!!! better get off that high horse quick before you fall!!

    There’s a lot of truth on what you say but I’d say that any word with the right inflection can be an insult it’s like saying “fucking mexican” means “fucking spic” or something like that.

    Some american people in forums used to think that “negrito” meant “darkie”, maybe it does but seeing it the other way around is funny that americans look for translations for words that are not there, like “there’s got to be a term that’s equivalent with N@gger”. I won’t deny there’s racism in Mexico but trying to translate one country’s racial climate to another’s just isn’t the way to get to understand each other, as a friend of mine said recently “they’re called “cultural differences” for something.

  36. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Here’s the link for the singer: http://www.niggaromanticstyle.com/

  37. HECHO EN MEXICO wrote:

    “Despite international outcry, it is apparently acceptable for the country’s elite to hunt these women for sport.”

    SERIOUSLY?!

    This is complete BULLSHIT! Where do you get this? I understand why Americans in general are upset about our comic books but COME ON, if you’re gonna blog about racism, do some research before passing judgement.

    That one sentence, to me, disregards any past and future articles of your. THIS is how racism starts, from uninformed people spreading rumors about a country or race.

    SHAME ON YOU.

    viva mexico cabrones!

  38. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Hecho –

    For clarification purposes:

    The reporter’s book is called The Killing Fields: The Harvest of Women.

    Synopsis:

    Explosive book exposes the Mexican killing fields that claimed the lives of hundreds of women at the Juarez, Mexico border. The author’s dangerous investigation reveals high-level corruption, a drug cartel run amok and more. Hollywood took note and produced a movie starring Jennifer Lopez and Antonio Banderas. Amnesty International, the United Nations and the U.S. State Department want the Mexican government to put an end to the murders and disappearances that have spread to other places. Exclusive material, including FBI interviews, puts this book at the frontlines of the issue. Author is the expert on the ghastly border crimes. It is the first nonfiction book in English about the murders that attracted international attention.

    The reporter also has her own blog, where she documents coverage of this issue. And it appears, she has just won the Chavkin award for investigative journalism.

  39. Ali wrote:

    @Philly Phil and Ric Reyes – I think you are both either a little bit in denial or perhaps you may have fallen and hit your heads before you made your posts. It also highly probable that I am misinterpreting your points! Please correct me if I am.

    Philly Phil said, “mexico’s problem has never been about race” and “for the record, mexico was the first nation to abolish slavery and was also the first to recognize all persons as equal, regardless of race.”

    Mexico’s recognizing all persons as equal eh? If that’s true then how do you explain the extreme poverty that Mayan and Afro-Mexicano communities currently endure? Why are the contributions of Africans to Mexican culture and Mexico’s African roots so often overlooked? Why are so few Mexicans even aware that they have African ancestors? If you don’t attribute these issues, at least in part to race/racism/colorism, what do you attribute them to? All persons were declared equal in 1814 under the Chilpancingo Constitution but how do you enforce such a law in the face of European supremacy, rampant discrimination and forced assimilation?

    Philly Phil also said, “you can count José Maria Morelos y Pavon, President Juan Alvarez Benítez, Vicente Guerrero as famous Mexican leaders who could count slaves as their ancestors.”

    Are you sure you can’t count yourself also? What about 75% or more of today’s Mexican population? In the 1500s there were over 6,000 slaves in Mexico, not to mention countless fugitive slaves, and free blacks that sought refuge and employment there. Surely all these people could not have vanished into thin air.

    Ric Reyes said, “we’re so ignorant about the story of this imagery” and “The race issue isn’t really the most important thing in the comics.”

    As my “country uncles” would say, don’t shit on my plate and tell me its lobster. You’ve got to be kidding with with this weak “it’s not racist, it’s just our culture” Memin defenses. I’m not sure if you’re aware but that’s the same excuse Bull Connor used to defend the Jim Crow south; cultural differences.

    Ric Reyes also said, “In Mexico people like Memin (I’d like to think fewer and fewer people as time goes by) just because of a nostalgia factor.”

    Who enjoys reading Memin for nostalgic purposes? Afro-Mexicanos? Afro-Cubanos?

    There are some white Americans who are still arguing to bring back Amos and Andy and Al Jolson. Just because something brings back fond memories for some people doesn’t mean that it’s not racist. If Memin’s race is incidental why even make him “black” in the first place? If he could be a little white monkey and the comics would still have the same meaning why not do that?

    Thanks for sharing the link to the reggaeton “artist” who performs under the name “Nigga.” Apparently his name has been changed to DJ Flex for the US market. Yes, I find that shit racist too. I guarantee you he would receive a very similar, if not much stronger, reaction that Memin if he tried to release an album under his “real” name in the states. There is no way in hell I’d be cool with strolling through Tower Records and finding the cd of an artist called “Nigga.” A non-black Panamanian reggaeton singer called “Nigga”? Talk about cultural misunderstandings.

    @otra vez! – I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, “Mexico has a very small Black population that is not usually represented in the country’s popular culture.” This is the underlying issue. By and large the Afro-Mexicano community has a very limited voice and the main media representation is Memin a character in which they have NO imput. Memin was not created by Afro-Mexicanos, he does not speak for them and he is not a poster boy for them. In fact, Memin in not a boy at all. He is a monkey, a monkey in black face. If you don’t see why this is offensive I really don’t know what to tell you. I agree that people very often assume the word “Negro” has the same negative connotation in Spanish as it does in English. However, I have never consulted Afro-Mexicanos to gather their feelings on the term so I wouldn’t really be able to attest to its appropriateness.

    If anyone is looking for more links on the Afro-Mexicano population here are a few:

    http://library.west.asu.edu/building/artexhibits/costachica.html

    http://www.gbmnews.com/articles/2743/1/039The-African-Presence-in-MAxico039-breaks-new-ground/Page1.html

    http://www.afromexico.com/

    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/local/me-afromexside13

  40. Ron wrote:

    I am from Los Angeles and have lived around Mexicans all my life. I do not buy that this character is not a denigration of black people.

    The defenders can rationalize and intellectualize the character to death and pontificate regarding “cultural differences.”

    As a black man, I am highly offended but I appreciate the reminder of where people stand.

  41. nati wrote:

    “mexico’s problem has never been about race… it has always been about class.”

    I’m sorry, but WHAT?? Like in our country, “class” in Mexico and throughout the Spanish speaking world (Latin America as well as Spain!) race has everything to do with class! Mexico was a Spanish colony with an economy completely rooted in the completely racialized cultural genocide and oppression of it’s original indigenous inhabitants to ensure their exploitation as a viable peonage labor force and a substantial, albeit not as visible as in many central and south american countries, African slave population. The archaic colonial hierarchy of castas continues to manifest itself socially and economically in Mexico in innumerable ways!

  42. wendi muse wrote:

    re: the use of the term “negro,” yes, it can have connotations that are negative, but depending on the latin american country, and even down to the city, the meaning is different.

    i discussed varied treatment of racial nomenclature and race in general in latin america in a piece i did back in the day while i was a special correspondent here called “we want you…to think just link us” about what i consider “identity imperialism.”
    within the piece and comments section, you’ll find a lot of the same themes discussed here, though with a bit more of a focus on brazil. anyway, it may be worth checking out, throw-back or not:

    http://www.racialicious.com/2007/08/09/we-want-you-to-think-just-like-us/

    i have issues with the cartoon, but i am also reluctant to judge it as racist on its face. race is considered in different ways and is contingent on each nation’s respective history. we should not lose sight of that. however, walmart, in being fullt cognizant of our nation’s historical treatment of race, should have known better…

  43. Jorge wrote:

    But Mexicans are the cosmic race!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza_C%C3%B3smica

    I believe we get our Dia de La Raza from this old idea. I remember reading and being taught about from government issued history books.

    Another interesting thing to look at, in my opinion, are the pinturas de castas that were produced in the colonial period (I think they were made all over New Spain, Peru, etc.). One of the most beautiful example of these paintings are by Miguel Cabrera (and I mean it in an aesthetic way).

  44. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Hey Ali, I’m not saying there’s no racism involved or that there’s no racism in Mexico, I’m just saying you can’t translate USA’s racial problems to Mexico.

    It’s true that the existence of afromexicans isn’t even known by many and that their valuable heritage isn’t taught, but as mexican writer Carlos Monsivais said “in the worst case, in Mexico black is just another shade of brown”, those who have it the worst when it comes to racism, as you mention, are the darker skinned brown indigenous people, not afromexicans, and I don’t say this is a good thing, it’s just different, earlier it was mentioned that “negro” could be an insult but it’s nowhere near as offensive as “indio”.

    Alsounlike in USA, in Mexico class is a higher segregation cause than race.

    “Are you sure you can’t count yourself also? What about 75% or more of today’s Mexican population? In the 1500s there were over 6,000 slaves in Mexico, not to mention countless fugitive slaves, and free blacks that sought refuge and employment there. Surely all these people could not have vanished into thin air.”

    Again unlike USA, most of the black heritage is there but goes unnoticed because races have been mixed more frequently, many people in the afromexican movement don’t even look obviously black but walking through any mexican street you surely can see the genetic heritage is there.

    “Ric Reyes said, “we’re so ignorant about the story of this imagery” and “The race issue isn’t really the most important thing in the comics.”

    As my “country uncles” would say, don’t shit on my plate and tell me its lobster. You’ve got to be kidding with with this weak “it’s not racist, it’s just our culture” Memin defenses. I’m not sure if you’re aware but that’s the same excuse Bull Connor used to defend the Jim Crow south; cultural differences.”

    I’m not saying that we’re ignorant about these issues to mean we’re right, it’s clearly wrong, but it’s asshole-wrong if you will, not racist-wrong, for example, some lower class mexicans wear swastikas and many think it’s a cool symbols or many mistake it for the anarchy symbol or just wear it to shock people, they’re assholes, but that doesn’t make them nazis. the imagery used on Memin is undoubtedly rooted in racism and it’s wrong but since it was copied from “american entertainment” it was used very differently.

    What americans rightfully see in the character makes them think the character was used the same way it would have been in the USA, but I’ve seldom seen criticism based on what happens in the comic, surely there are many things to criticize but it’s not a KKK pamphlet.

    Ric Reyes also said, “In Mexico people like Memin (I’d like to think fewer and fewer people as time goes by) just because of a nostalgia factor.”

    Who enjoys reading Memin for nostalgic purposes? Afro-Mexicanos? Afro-Cubanos?

    I can’t talk about afro cubans, although the comic was sold in many latin american countries with larger black populations, in Philippinnes it was even labeled as a must read for elementary school kids because it promoted civic and family values, again, i’m not saying this to applaud the comic. From what I’ve read in forums (see the link I posted earlier for example) some like it and some hate it. I think that for most the character isn’t much of an issue because the character has been fading into obscurity for years, it’s only this “controversies” that the comic’s publisher has used to gain some prominency lately, it’s not like it’s Mexico’s Mickey Mouse and all kids love the character and have its image in their rooms.

    “Memin’s race is incidental why even make him “black” in the first place? If he could be a little white monkey and the comics would still have the same meaning why not do that?”

    Well, I can’t really know what they intended to do, from what I’ve read most of the storylines would work if the character wasn’t black, if I was the publisher I would have at least redesigned the character as a black kid drawn as realistically as the other characters to show good will, but the sucker is just trying to capitalize on the thing, that you’d have to ask him.

    “Thanks for sharing the link to the reggaeton “artist” who performs under the name “Nigga.” Apparently his name has been changed to DJ Flex for the US market. Yes, I find that shit racist too. I guarantee you he would receive a very similar, if not much stronger, reaction that Memin if he tried to release an album under his “real” name in the states. There is no way in hell I’d be cool with strolling through Tower Records and finding the cd of an artist called “Nigga.” A non-black Panamanian reggaeton singer called “Nigga”? Talk about cultural misunderstandings.”

    I guess it’s similar to Memin in the sense that it’s something rooted in reacism and took out of context, I even doubt that the singer fully understand what the word fully means, maybe he thought it was cool from what he heard on rap songs, again, I’ve never seen mexican media ask him why he did choose that name ’cause they don’t even seem to know it’s a racial slur. Honest.

    @otra vez! – I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, “Mexico has a very small Black population that is not usually represented in the country’s popular culture.” This is the underlying issue. By and large the Afro-Mexicano community has a very limited voice and the main media representation is Memin a character in which they have NO imput. Memin was not created by Afro-Mexicanos, he does not speak for them and he is not a poster boy for them. ”

    Just to be reiterative, I agree wholehartedly

    “I agree that people very often assume the word “Negro” has the same negative connotation in Spanish as it does in English. However, I have never consulted Afro-Mexicanos to gather their feelings on the term so I wouldn’t really be able to attest to its appropriateness.”

    Well, Afromexicans used the term “negritud” (which would translate as “blackness”) very proudly. I’d say the spanish “negro” can have negative connotations depending on its usage but it’s definitely not like its specific use is a slur, I think it’s cool when english speaking people analyze its use and get to their own conclusions but in debates like these most people just go “it reads the same so it means the same”.

  45. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Another comment on the same:

    ““Thanks for sharing the link to the reggaeton “artist” who performs under the name “Nigga.” Apparently his name has been changed to DJ Flex for the US market. Yes, I find that shit racist too. I guarantee you he would receive a very similar, if not much stronger, reaction that Memin if he tried to release an album under his “real” name in the states. There is no way in hell I’d be cool with strolling through Tower Records and finding the cd of an artist called “Nigga.” A non-black Panamanian reggaeton singer called “Nigga”? Talk about cultural misunderstandings”

    First of all, it seems to me that the singer is at least part black, not that it’d be right to use the name either way but I found it strange that you saw him as non-black.

    What I wanted to say is, lately it was rumored that Nas was planning on naming his latest album “N@gga” and then “N@gger”, there are groups like NWA and rap songs that used the word every three words, these artists get prominence all over the world,companies like Warner Brothers air cartoons banned in the USA because theyr’e racially offensive elsewhere worldwide labeling them as innocent kiddie fun. The reggaeton singer is an asshole for choosing that stage name, but at the same time if he went to the states he (and maybe all of Panama) would be labeled racists and enemies of America by american media while Nas can talk crap and still get rich selling records?

  46. sadlilstar wrote:

    sooo…
    I like what Phill had to say.. I grew up much of the same way in Mexico . I just want to say “Negro” can be positive, endearing or negative. A mom may call her darker husband or child negro or if he is pudgy gordo. just like she may call him guero if he is lighter or flaco if he is thin. Anyone have a problem being called flaco? How about guero? why? It can be used to identify a person much like a name is used. These words that are used instead of name go further than just the word.. i’ts not someone calling someone nigger or whitey it’s a identifying statement. So what? Their skin is whiter… or darker, or they are young so they are called mocosos, or short so they get chatos or chaparro. Everyone in the U.S. wants to get up in arms about racisms when they themselves are racist. I have NEVER experienced racism against my person as I have in the US. Here, in the US they automatically want to categorize you as something.. if your Hispanic they want to say your lazy, poor, dirty ect.. if your white your the enemy of anyone that is not white… I think white people get it the worst in the states – even the ones that had nothing to do with any racism. Memin is defiantly a cultural thing and I am glad that Wal-Mart is carrying it – it helps first generation immigrants teach their kids and grand kids what cultural value it has. Just because YOU don’t understand how the cultural value is there does not mean it doesn’t exist.

  47. J. Wiley wrote:

    As an African-American, I’m personally offended by the illustrations, mostly because I imagine they’re created by non-blacks for a largely non-black audience. Playing with explosive racial stereotypes usually isn’t tasteful when appropriated by outside groups.

    Example: I am not Asian, so I have no business making Asian jokes; and if I hear someone who’s not Asian making that kind of joke, I’ll call them on it because it’s not acceptable. It’s racist.

    That’s precisely why something like this bugs me – are the creators of this character black? Is the audience black? If the answer is no (and I suspect it is), that’s a problem.
    So, yes – from my perspective as a black American, I don’t like it.

    Granted, it’s hard to say whether they’re offensive in the Mexican context. I simply don’t know enough about Mexican pop culture, unfortuately.

    But even though I don’t know anything about Mexican pop culture, I have a general rule for deciding whether or not something is offensive that I think can be applied anywhere, no matter what marginalized group you’re dealing with.:

    Does a significant portion of the group being depicted find the depiction offensive? If so, the depiction is offensive, period. Full stop.

    Are black Mexicans reading this comic and giggling over the nostalgia and kitsch, or do they find it problematic? If they find it problematic, it absolutely is.

    When I decided that ‘chief/brave’ mascots are offensive, I looked to Native-American opinions. No one else mattered – certainly not the hordes of over-privileged white college kids who wanted to drown out dissenting voices.

    When I decided that the Uncle Remus character is offensive, I looked to myself and the opinions of other black Americans. No one else mattered.

    Similarly, the opinions I’d value most here are those of black Mexicans. How do they (obviously ‘they’ aren’t a homogenous mass, but is there a general consensus?) feel?

    “I am from Los Angeles and have lived around Mexicans all my life. I do not buy that this character is not a denigration of black people.

    The defenders can rationalize and intellectualize the character to death and pontificate regarding “cultural differences.”

    As a black man, I am highly offended but I appreciate the reminder of where people stand.”

    I hear where you’re coming from, but citing your negative experiences with “Mexicans all [your] life” as further evidence of “where people (i.e. Mexicans in general) stand” seems inflammatory to me.

    It has that dangerous “I know what those people are like” tone that often makes me so angry when I happen to overhear white people discussing any racial issue.

    I’m not going to claim that there isn’t anti-black sentiment in Mexican -or any other group- communties. I’ve personally experienced it myself.

    However, reading your post gave me the impression -if it’s a false one, I apologize- that you were painting all or most Mexicans with the same brush, which is neither fair nor accurate.

  48. Philly Phil wrote:

    @ ali – let me correct you. you are misunderstanding my points. but let’s not harp on that…

    “If that’s true then how do you explain the extreme poverty that Mayan and Afro-Mexicano communities currently endure?”

    um… don’t know how to tell you this but 50% of the damn population is in poverty. why do you think you illegal immigration is such an issue here? now last i checked, poor is poor. be it brown, black, mulatto and fair-skinned. pointing out that mayan and afro-mexican communities face poverty is like, to quote David Simon, “you’re up on the corner of a roof and you’re showing some people how a couple shingles came loose. Meanwhile, a hurricane wrecked the rest of the damn house.” are you really going to tell me that, even within mexican’s diverse people, cultural differences are STILL going to drown out economic similarities?

    then you’re going to ask why afro-mexican contributions are overlooked and then, in the next paragraph, quote me and the list of Afro-Mexican figures who contributed greatly to Mexican history?

    i can only speak for myself and not Ric Reyes but i, for one, am not trying to defend MP. i was merely trying to present more context than the original article posted. what latoya refers to as a “good balance between academic and accessible.”

    did i ever say MP wasn’t offensive? nope. even rereading Ric Reyes’ post right now i can’t find anywhere where that man defended the visual depiction of this character.

    does poverty bother you? does the exploitation of an ENTIRE class of people bother you or just the ones that you can physically relate, too?

    @ron – really? you’ve lived around mexicans all your life (in LA, no less) and now, over some silly ass book, you know where we stand?

    @nati – there’s the trees and then there’s the forest. and, to push this metaphor a bit further, our forest may contain a multitude of trees, but the forest is still the forest. for example, here we are, debating one another, and Wal Mart was still trying to put this book on its shelves. see how race distracts us from class?

    and for the record, i am NOT dismissing the power and influence race has in any society. call me naive, but i just want us to stop arguing over which of us has the biggest scar and actually DO something to heal each other (someone want to cue kumbaya?).

    and by the by, before i’m accused of avoiding the question of african ancestry in my mexican blood, and sorry if this offends you, but who cares?! i’m more worried about my family in jalisco surviving day-to-day as well as for the safety and well-being of certain relatives who’ve crossed their poor asses over here to work to better support them than anything else. because, in the end, the only color that’s going to help any of them is green.

  49. NancyP wrote:

    Proof positive that Americans aren’t the only jerks in the world.

    Pulp the things.

  50. hello wrote:

    I don’t think the issue otra vez brought up is whether memin is racist or not. of course he is. I think the issue is the common misconceptions and misrepresentations and broad assumptions about Hispanic culture that are carried out by usually unfriendly non-Hispanics. Notice the not-so-subtle animus exhibited by various commenters–even the writer and Latoya herself–towards Hispanic issues here. The aggressive and angry tone of a lot of the comments here speak volumes.

  51. andrew wrote:

    as a white american who has lived for over a year in mexico, i would like to share a few things from my experience. first of, in mexico if someone refers to a black person as “un negro” isn’t the same as calling someone a “negro” in the US. It’s the equivalent of calling someone “a black”, just like i was often called “un blanco”. furthermore blacks may be called “morenos” just as whites are called “gueros” in mexico.

    having gotten that out of the way, i would say that i found mexico to be an extremely racist place. i met people from poor mestizos living in rural villagers who had internalized horrible racist stereotypes (which they explained to me as having come from the “authentic” experience of watching american television programs and movies). i also met extremely wealthy white mexicans who were openly racist. i can recall two occasions in which mexicans tried to talk to me about the problem with “los negros” in the united states. i found that most racist mexicans had never actually met a black person before and based their stereotypes on racist media (mainly american movies and music) that reaches mexico. many young college students whom i met in mexico love 50 cent, they also thought it was fun to use the word nigger.

    i think the main problem with racism in mexico (and the US as well) is that people there have no meaningful relationships with black people. when a mexican friend of mine came to visit me in the US and spent two days hanging out with two of my black friends, afterwards he actually told me how happy he was to have gotten to know black people and admitted to me that prior to meeting them he had a very negative view of blacks, one which he quickly came to realize was completely wrong.

    while i dont want to generalize all of mexico, or all mexicans, the culture as a whole has a long way to come when dealing with racism against blacks. i must admit,however, that it’s a lot easier to see open racism in mexico than in the US. here everyone is too preoccupied with being PC and yet they refuse to acknowledge the institutional racism inherent in our white supremacist culture.

  52. Ric Reyes wrote:

    J. Wiley, I aprecciate your thoughtfulness, I just gotta say that racial identity isn’t that clear on most mexicans, again, I won’t deny there is racism in Mexico, but most mexicans don’t perceive themselves as belonging to any specific race 100% (even if they are in denial of some of their actual heritage), and we don’t, some of the most vocal people on the afromexican movement don’t look obviously black, I think that the way to go in Mexico to fight racism, a way that maybe wouldn’t work in USA, would be to aknowledge all the races involved in our heritage and accept it as part of every single mexican, instead of segregating us more and more using tags that would divide us. I, personally hadn’t heard the term “afromexican” until the earlier Memin controversy and I personally think that using it as a division point instead of just as a term that aknowledges heritage is dangerous, all mexicans should be afromexicans.

    I, as a kid, reading Memin and unaware of many other aspects of the comic that make me not like it now, thought of the character as a kid like me, not to laugh at “the black boy” and that’s what’s hard to see for americans, that (most) mexican readers didn’t perceive the character as “the other” just because of how he looked. Regardless of whatever’s wrong with the comic and our perception, that’s telling on both cultures.

  53. timarasa wrote:

    yes, i understand previous posters’ comments on how the term “negro” can have positive or negative connotations depending on how it is used (hello? many people feel the same way about certain word(s) used to refer to black people in this country, but that’s already been discussed on this blog ad nauseum)…however guess in what context you think “negro” is used in the examples shown of memin being kicked, abused, and ridiculed?? it makes me think of the online articles regarding the brouhaha around naomi campbell’s anger management issues and sentencing last year: with the exception of this, there was probably not one article i came across that didn’t have someone leave a comment about how much he or she “hates that black bitch”…hmmm, as if plain-old “bitch” didn’t suffice. in those instances color is used as a ‘negative reinforcer’, and the examples of memin i saw are essentially no different.

  54. Kaonashi wrote:

    I completely agree with you, J Wiley.

    This is yet one more reason why I will never darken Walmart’s door. I really see no difference between MP, Golliwogs and Little Black Sambo since they are ALL depictions of Blacks as being something less than human. :/

    Hecho:

    I wish I COULD say it’s an exaggeration, but unfortunately I’ve read a few stories myself about what is going on in Juarez independent of the source Latoya has given. Apparently, women have been disappearing for YEARS around Juarez; their bodies (if lucky, as some simply disappear) found days later lying around in a field or something violated and no one seems to give a damn. The articles I read suggested that some sort of serial killer (or killers, due to the sheer volume of ladies disappearing) working the area, or suggested that it was someone from the States who had a “normal” life crossing over to do these crimes…and then going back home.

    The most horrible part? I read these things YEARS ago…and it’s still going on. :(

  55. Paul wrote:

    What exactly is “Hispanic Culture”? Do Dominicans and Mexicans have the same folkways and traditions? Are Brazilians Hispanic even though they speak Portugese?

    It’s akin to saying that Greeks and Swedes share a common European Culture or Egyptians and Kenyans share a common African culture.

  56. Ron wrote:

    My comment regarding living around Mexicans meant that I can get their jokes and inside humor. You have to understand that blacks in L.A. may have special insight to all of this. I went to a school that was 75% mexican and 10% Salvadoran and 5% other hispanic.

    The neighborhoods I grew up in were predominately hispanic.

    I spent countless hours in college debating this issue with hispanics.

    Now – the comment of where you stand refers to individuals who seek to rationalize this character as non-offensive or innocent NOT ALL HISPANICS.

    Mexico is a corrupt country where people of African descent are on the bottom of the totem pole even below those in Chiapas.

    People of African descent would risk complete genocide if they were to speak up so now is not the time for that. Any reference regarding how they feel is really irrelevant. You cannot get people’s feelings in corrupt place like mexico.

    There is a reason – no Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey, Gabriel Prossers, the Prince, Harriet Tubman’s, Frederick Douglass, Booker T., WEB DuBois, Marcus Garveys, Malcolm X, MLK and countless others are not prominient in these other countries with black populations.

    You cannot say that Afro-Latinos have reached the level of consciousness that African Americans have as far as human rights are concerned.

    That is why AA are such a thorn in the side to many people on the planet – we have a strong legacy.

    Mod Note
    – Ron, please refrain from making such large generalizations. The Afro-Latino movement has a different history from our struggle and they deal with different issues. But they are organizing. Black Enterprise covered the idea of blacks organizing with Black Latinos in 2004. The issue has even become a topic on the table for Congress to lend help to Afro-Latinos in other nations. Keep this in mind for future comments on this subject. – LDP

  57. Nicole wrote:

    Thanks to everyone posting on this subject. I am learning a lot.

  58. Ron wrote:

    I know that I made a lot of generalizations with that last comment. However, I need to mention a very important point and distinction.

    Black Americans have accomplished much with the assistance of non-blacks and a society willing to change its attitude towards blacks.

    Black Americans could not have made it without the help of non-blacks and a system that allows change from the bottom up.

    Unfortunately, many Afro-Latinos only have themselves to rely on and a system that resists change.

  59. Nadra wrote:

    To Hello:

    If I sounded angry, it was because I felt that I was being stereotyped. Certain commenters made a number of assumptions, including that I know nothing about Mexican or Latino culture generally, that I don’t understand Spanish and that I am somehow hostile towards Mexican culture. The truth is I’ve lived all of my adult life in border states, lived in a border town, have made many trips to Mexico (my next visit will be later this month) and have studied Mexican/Latino literature, sociology, etc. I have also taught a class of all native Spanish-speaking students for the Los Angeles Unified School District. Perhaps some people jumped the gun because I said that I have little knowledge of Mexican pop culture. What I mean by this is that I can’t tell you who’s topping the music and TV charts there right now. There are Americans who have little knowledge of American popular culture, but that doesn’t make them clueless about the social issues here. Because I’ve lived in El Paso and have written myself about the murders of the women in Juarez, not to mention participated in activism to raise awareness about the murders, I was also angered that people assumed I am just rattling off misinformation about that matter also. The troubling issue for me is that because I am not Latino I must have no idea what I’m talking about. In closing, here is a link to an article I wrote about the murders: http://altweeklies.com/movies/real_life_drama/Story?oid=147725

  60. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Ron:

    “Mexico is a corrupt country where people of African descent are on the bottom of the totem pole even below those in Chiapas.”

    I doubt it, and I tell you why, the race mexicans act more racist to are… other mexicans, people who look obviously black in most of the countrie are thought of as foreigners, so they are treated differently, I’m not generalizating but those who have it the worst are the indigenous people still living according to their own cultures. I find it racist that you speak of “people of African descent” as if you meant only the people that looks black, I’ve got a friend who is of african descent, her grandma was afromexican, she’s whiter than me, is she no longer of african descent? I’ve always assumed that there’s african blood in my veins but I’m not really interested on percentages.

    it’s funny but now that I can think about it Mexico can accept a big afromexican pop star, singer Kalimba but somehow it’s harder for artists with features that tend towards more indigenous likenesses.

    “People of African descent would risk complete genocide if they were to speak up so now is not the time for that. Any reference regarding how they feel is really irrelevant. You cannot get people’s feelings in corrupt place like mexico.”

    Yeah, Mexico is so corrupt that my man Geronimo Baños, clearly and afromexican from Veracruz can own his own byciclw manufacturing company, go figure.

    “There is a reason – no Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey, Gabriel Prossers, the Prince, Harriet Tubman’s, Frederick Douglass, Booker T., WEB DuBois, Marcus Garveys, Malcolm X, MLK and countless others are not prominient in these other countries with black populations.”

    While i think it’s be nice for everybody to know about these great persons, to me it seems again like the old american attitude of “you have to think exactly the way we do”. I bet people of african descent form everywhere has their own heroes , some you’ve never heard of.

    “You cannot say that Afro-Latinos have reached the level of consciousness that African Americans have as far as human rights are concerned.”

    That might be true in some senses but not in the “Oh, we americans are so advanced”, maybe, just maybe they haven’t reached that level ’cause they’re not treated so badly in the first place, America is the country with the KKK after all.

  61. K wrote:

    I wish I had enough time to read all the comments, but it’s way too many. I did read some comments and I have to say that Philly Phil and Otra Vez are the ones that made me say “yes finally someone I agree with…” Ok I was born and raised in a Latin American country and we called black people Negros and black kids were Negritos. For people that don’t know, Negro means black in Spanish and it doesn’t have the meaning that it would have here in the United States. I remember my family using those terms with their friends and they never got offended. People see it as something normal, as Philly Phil said it’s not about race, it’s about class. It might be hard for people raise in other parts of the world to understand this and probably whoever reads this will say that it’s just an excuse and that this is unacceptable, but you have to understand that things are seemed differently around the world and people have different points of view. I never thought that calling some one black was going to be so offensive until I came to the here to the United States.

    Philly Phil, I can completely relate to you when you say that people call you “sell-out” because you want to do better, I’ve heard that and seen that many times. However, I don’t know if you know that this only happens with the Latinos here in the US, because I know that in Peru (that’s where I’m from), you are left out if you don’t get higher education.

    Finally, this goes to Latoya Peterson. I understand that it’s really hard to talk about the Latino/Hispanic culture because, well, every country in Latin America is different. I agree with you, and it makes me really sad that many people don’t understand that and still classify us and judge us all the same.

  62. yvette wrote:

    I don’t know why but whites seem to act in the same racist manner no matter were they come from (Latin America, South America, the US, and so on). They all have the same attitude towards people with a darker skin tone. They seem to be the only common denominator in the racism problem.

  63. Philly Phil wrote:

    thanks, K.

  64. omg wrote:

    “There is a reason – no Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey, Gabriel Prossers, the Prince, Harriet Tubman’s, Frederick Douglass, Booker T., WEB DuBois, Marcus Garveys, Malcolm X, MLK and countless others are not prominient in these other countries with black populations.”

    These people are Americans from the United States, or are prominent figures in US history. They are not Mexican. I’m sure you know this. Mexico and the USA are two separate countries with different, if very intertwined histories. Mexicans have their own historical figures they look up to and learn about in school. Your comments are very US-centric. You seem to be just transferring your feelings about US race relations to a non-US country, which makes pretty much all your points moot. You are generalizing and making assumptions.

    “People of African descent would risk complete genocide if they were to speak up”

    Really? Who is going to carry out this so-called “genocide”? Do you know? I’d love to hear about it.

    I think the problem here is that it looks liek you (Ron) are regarding all poc’s as one big undifferentiated lump. AA’s and AA history are not interchangeable with non-American Blacks and Black history outside the USA. You are taking a US-centric approach to a non-US issue.

    Nadra:
    As a writer you must keep a lot of things in mind. As readers, we know nothing about you and your life, and when someone ciriticizes or comments on your writing, she is not criticizing you personally. Someone reading your article only has your writing to work on. Nothing more. Unless the reader knows you personally. You mentioned that you were not familiar with “mexican pop culture”. That is what your reader knows about you. From reading your article, a reader does not know where you live, where you’ve lived in the past, where you’ve travelled, the friends you keep, the substance and content of your educational background, etc. People here tend to be quite thin skinned, and this high sensitivity will always be problematic when you are constantly publishing content on the web, were many people can read it. You can’t just throw a fit whenever someone disagrees with you. It’s not productive, and it kills any debate. I assume that articles on this site are meant in some way to spark a conversation about race-related topics. If you take criticism and disagreement so emotionally and so personally, it really isn’t conducive of debate, and creates a really negative vibe. Just my two cents.


    Mod Note
    – omg, Nadra had every right to be angry because the initial charge was that she had gotten her facts wrong. And then, in a subsequent charge, that she was making things up. I will remind you that this is a blog, not a large media house, and people here write for comments, not pay. That makes quite a bit of difference to how people approach the reaction to a piece. It is very easy to brush off negative comments with editor approval and a check in hand (as I have done) than it is on a blog, which is essentially a community conversation.

    Had the two commenters who attacked Nadra specifically took issue with specific facts in her piece (or even only specifically took issue with this blog’s handling of Latin@/Hispanic issues as a whole) the reaction would not have been as harsh. However, one of my contributers – not even the author of this thread – was called self-hating, Nadra’s ability to cover issues was called into question specifically because of her race, and she was accused of making up a well documented event.

    You may think we are thin skinned, and that is fine, but we hold people to a higher standard of communication here. If you are not willing to be accountable for the words you say to the author of the piece, this is not the place for you. We are not an anonymous news mass. You know who we all are. And we write to interact with our community, no more, no less.

    Finally, as blog editor, I do expect more out of the Racialicious community because our community strives to be better. So, while this thread started out negatively, I was quite heartened to see one story idea and two volunteers come out of this thread. I have never been opposed to dissenting opinions. What I do not like is nasty sniping described as criticism. And I am glad to see that this thread was not overwhelmed by the sniping that occurs often on other sites. – LDP

  65. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ K –

    Yes it is. It doesn’t mean it isn’t worth discussing; it means we have to be able to do it justice.

    There was a thread I crossposted from Guanabee a while back, and a woman left an excellent comment about how the label Latino/a was confining *and* colonizing – it is a short cut to shove a very diverse group of people into a very small parameter. And I think that needs to be discussed, particularly as there are so many assumptions about where people are from and their background based on that label.

    (For example, the woman I used to nanny for occasionally spoke to me in Spanish. A bystander who witnessed this told her to stop speaking “Mexican” – despite the fact that on that particular day, she happened to be wearing a shirt that said “El Salvador.”)

    However, that also brings up a new issue – a lot of political and economic power in the United States comes from having a large unified group with a clear goal. So, say we drop the label Latin@ for country specific identification. Would that dilute political power?

    So there are a lot of fascinating conversations to be had, provided we find the right guides.

  66. Ric Reyes wrote:

    http://occasionalsuperheroine.blogspot.com/2008/07/about-memin-pinguin-controversy.html

  67. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ Ric –

    Good find! (I really like that blog.)

  68. Ron wrote:

    Ric Reyes, omg –

    We can agree to disagree.

    I think Argentina is good example of the policies in Latin America toward Afro-Latino populations. The polices mirror those of the Arab world with regard to its African populations. The Moorish influece with regard to race relations has been transferred to Latin America.

    I have considered your points before because its not like I have not heard them before.

    However, I will reevaluate your points in trying to gain a better understanding of the issues in Latin America.

    I fully aware that being “US-centric” can confuse the issue. But isn’t that the first thing people say, “You do not understand our culture.”

    Are health, land rights, education, political and economic factors important in determining the condition of a people?

    Is there a correlation between how Afro-Latinos are depicted and their condition? Yes.

    Carlos Moore is one of the foremost leaders in studying Afro-Latins you should check out his work.

    There are other experts out West and East who are good also.

  69. superchunk12 wrote:

    As a woman who is Half-Afro Latina, that monkey is offensive, so is his mammy stereotype mother. The fact that he is a monkey and his mother is human suggests an interchangability between people of African descent and monkeys IMHO. We as Latinos from whatever country we are from, cannot absolve ourselves from racism because we’re “not as bad” as the U.S., Poverty is horrific, whatever color you are, but so is racism. Injustice is Injustice and one is not more salient than the other. I have been discriminated against in the U.S., Puerto Rico where my father is from, and in other countries, in Brazil; I was called girl, and told to use a service entrance, and I was attending an academic conference!
    Even if we stepped back for a second and said, yes I can understand how this could be offensive, that would be a step in the right direction. But to deny racism in Latin American culture, or to sidestep it is not the answer to this problem.

  70. bfp wrote:

    hey racialicious ladies!
    I’m going to be very bad form and admit I haven’t read all the comments closely, I’ve just skimmed them–so if I’m repeating something, I’m really sorry!

    but just so you know, Wal-Mart actually decided to take the books off the shelves. they *did* carry the books for a while, but after the complaint was made, they announced that they would no longer be selling the book. Vivir Latino covered this here:

    http://vivirlatino.com/2008/07/10/walmart-removes-racist-mexican-comics.php

    Now, I’m going to go back and read the discussion more thoroughly! :-)

  71. Ric Reyes wrote:

    @ LaToya:

    You’d do well to click on the Adalisa link too:
    http://adalisaz.blogspot.com/2008/07/trouble-with-memin-pinguin.html

    @ Ron

    I think that every latin american country is a case on its own, from what I understand for example, most indigenous people in Argentina were exterminated and in a sense Argentinians are the “whitest” in Latin America, other countries have larger black populations than Mexico so the dynamic changes. You can´t apply what goes on in Cuba, for example, to Peru, etc.

    As Adalisa says in the earlier link I can’t try to make you understand how something like Memin is or isn’t supposed to be racist if I’m not also willing to take your word that for your culture it is.

    Back in the days of the stamp controversy many americans, black an not black got mad at me and some mexican friends ’cause back then my posture was that it wasn’t racist, I couldn’t even see that the problem was the drawing, and some yelled at us “racists” and were mixing up other issues like inmigrants and stuff . Others instead tried to explain us why this imagery was offensive, the story of it, etc. And I, for one, got it. I now know that saying memin is not racist is kind of like showing a swastika to someone of jewish descent and telling him it isn’t racist. It IS racist, people like Adalisa and me are just trying to show some context and sides to it ’cause it’s hurtful if americans go from “this comic is racist” to “Oh, Mexico is a very racist country”. This debate should be about this comic, that isn’t even much of a mexican cultural landmark nowadays, not a cultural war beetween african americans and mexicans.

    @ Superchunk12

    I, for one, am not trying to make it look like the comic isn’t racist and I won’t even try to make one injustice bigger than the other, but sometimes what I’ve felt form some americans while discussing this issue is a debate on which country is less or more racist, as I’ve said, there’re similar views in both countries but also different views. For example, I understand why americans can be shocked to see so much ethnic mockery on latin american TV, but at the same time latin americans would be shocked as how many artist get millionaire performing songs that feature racial slurs such as the n-word. The dynamics are different and instead of trying to make all countries cultural McDonald’s we could learn from what works and doesn’t work on every place.

  72. Ric Reyes wrote:

    Once again:

    Another problem is the way media plays this, for example american media says things like “this comic sells by the millions” to make you think there are Memin comics in every mexican house, but comics haven’t sold those quantities like for 30 years or more. Then mexican media says “americans areoffended by the fact that Memin is black” and never mention the backstory on the imagery the character represents.

  73. cw wrote:

    Negro is not that derogatory of a word to most African-Americans. It is just a word that was used in the past just as African-American is used today. Also, in regards to people who think some blacks in this country are calling other countries racist and not this country no for the most part we are the pot calling the kettle black [sic].

  74. dirkdiggler wrote:

    that’s some racist shit.

  75. Adrianna wrote:

    I’m not suprised. In latin america Television is really white . I use to watch Mexican soaps a lot and I stopped ,because of thier stupidity , sexism and racism. And Now this! I wonder How they feel about the way Mexican are portrayed in America. If they Like it. It’s truly disgusting.

  76. not buying it wrote:

    “but mexico’s problem has never been about race… it has always been about class.”

    hahahahaha! Tell me another one!

    Look: “latino” culture is so deeply steeped in anti-Black racism that you’d have to be blinder than a bat not see it. Just look at all the incredible denialism on this page full of comments for proof. Half the arguments are exactly the same crap white racists use to defend their own strain of petty bigotries.

    And by the way? The pejorative word used by Mexicans to describe black people = “dung beetle”. If describing a whole ethnicity as shit-eating insects isn’t racist….wow. You people have issues.

    Mod Note – No “you people” comments directed at entire ethnic groups. Next one gets deleted.

  77. Barry Deutsch wrote:

    I’m kind of late commenting on this, but I wanted to point out that in fact, some members of Mexico’s black community — including “The Asociacion Mexico Negro, which represents some 50,000 blacks living on the Pacific coast” — have objected to the racism of these comics.

    The folks who are implying that no one in Mexico would see these comics as racist are mistaken.

  78. nezua wrote:

    wow, i know i took a day or two to get here, latoya, but it seems ustedes have it all covered. (and “not buying it”, you’re a dumbass talking about latino culture being steeeeeeped in racism. how gross of you to arrange your perception this way. but as you demonstrated and summarily projected, you have issues.)

    i am not a black mexican, but from what i know of memin, the stories are definitely anti-racist, but sadly, (and as we can see above) the art is quite racist. this is not projecting cultures on someone else. and not all mexican nationals will defend memin, either.

    the rest has been said here already. and yes, mexico has racism. please. that is why you will hear stories of parents being proud of babies that look guero. and yes, mexico’s record with slavery is better than the USA and yes, they abolished slavery first.

    but white supremacist standards wrap the globe, they are not corralled or cordoned off from any place. because white supremacists long ago circled the world with a goldthirst and a landthirst and with indigenous blood tried to slake it. and with their laws and courts and manners, planted their infected mental seed in many societies. we battle it one by one by one, here there, everywhere. peace.

  79. Roberto wrote:

    Well, I’m a bit late on this. I read all the previous comments and just want to say a few things. First, I’m from Mexico and as Ric Reyes said, MP has not so much influence here at present, Editorial Vid, has been republishing it a lot but is no longer a bestseller. That was on 1960’s.
    I read, in so many comments, about the issues of racism in Mexico and have to say that yes, the ones who get the worst are those of indigenous appearance and also like to point that Mexico is so much more racially mixed, because that started since the time of “La Colonia”. And here are very few people that are completely white.
    Yet again, Spanish, as every other language, allows a lot of intonations that can change the meaning of what you want to say, for example, you can say to me “pinche Roberto” (”pinche” being used as an insult on ocassion) in a casual tone and I will not take offense but if your tone is angry, I will immediatelty respond with another insult. Same goes to words that can be used as racial slurs.
    I also like to say that much of the idea that people here has of USA comes from movies and music from there. If you don’t believe me, in the movie theater today, the movies are: Hellboy 2, The dark knight, Hancock, Get Smart. The music heard here (aside from natonal artists like RBD, Kudai, Nikki Clan, etc.) is 50 Cent, Beyonce, Madonna, The Killers, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Metallica, Eminem. I’m not sure if all of them have anything new now, but all of them have been on the radio station that I hear and you can see my point.
    Yes, there are soap operas which uses a lot of stereotyped characters but that is true for almost every country. And the fact that they exist, and people watches them don’t makes them good television.

  80. EvilAngelfish wrote:

    Not to beat a dead horse, but does it need to be *further* clarified that pop culture and culture are not the same thing? I don’t understand why other commentors have been confusing Nadra’s not having familiarity with Mexican pop culture with ignorance of Mexican culture, since, in her post, she clearly admitted to the former, not the latter.

  81. shoepins wrote:

    Latin America culture is engrained with racism imparted by the Spanish conquistadores, who, during colonial times, established a class system based on race. On top were the Spaniards actually born in Spain, second were their sons and daughters born in the colonies, third were Mestizos (half Spanish/half Indian), so on and so forth. Black people were probably at the bottom. This is so much part of the culture, that people don’t really notice. For example, the telenovelas are filled with white people or light skin mestizos. The maids are always Indian or black. In Latin America is OK to make fun of people based on race; even on TV or the movies. Being of Asian descent and growing up there, I was taunted by both adults and children!

  82. Cassie wrote:

    What a terrible thing for Wal Mart to do…depictions like this one have been quite common in shows and books for children as well. Nothing like brainwashing the young and impressionable youth…The last thing this country needs is more racism and hatred.