Interracial Dating: A Nigerian Perspective
by Guest Contributor Sewere
I grew up in a country where despite the fact that the vast majority of people there are black folks, there are serious limitations to interactions between people from different ethnic groups.
These differences are particularly pronounced when it comes to who you decide to pair with (dating or marriage). As the product of one of those forbidden marriages, I grew up not paying any attention to who I could or could not date (obviously believing that the person should respect both my heritages and my family.) I pretty much stuck to that mantra when I moved to the U.S. So I am often surprised when I find myself pulled into conversations like the one I with a friend of my cousin’s….
Cousin [interjecting out of nowhere]: You know he’s dated white women?
Friend: What is it with these brothers with dread locks chasing after white women?
Me [playing the oblivious]: I don’t know, it probably because The Man ™ put something into the beeswax.
Friend: But really what is it with you brothers and white women?
Me: Um, I don’t know but I’ll be sure to take a poll at the next Brothers Who Date White Women meeting?
Friend: But I’m serious, is it because you don’t think black women are beautiful?
Me: That’s an interesting question, but why would you assume that because I’ve dated white women I couldn’t have dated black women, can’t love black women or any other woman for that fact?
Friend: But what is wrong with black women that you want to go look at other women? Y’all don’t know no better.
Me [wondering why the hell I’m being bothered at my own birthday]: Absolutely nothing, I’m just as attracted to black women as I am to any woman.
Friend: So why don’t you have a preference for black women?
Me [trying to understand the reason for the third degree on my dating life]: I don’t think I have a preference for any race of a woman to be honest. What’s your preference and why?
Friend: I want a Real Black Man ™. Someone who can really appreciate and deserves the beautiful black woman that I am.
Me: Ok, but what do you mean Real Black Man. Because my experience being black and Nigerian has been that I’m not really a black man.
Cousin [interjecting again]: Her husband is Nigerian!
Me: So does that mean that your husband wouldn’t be considered a Real Black Man.
Friend: You know I made him work to get my attention and I wanted him to prove he deserved me.
Me: That’s great but what if I were to tell you that he, like some Nigerian men, consider you more appealing than Nigerian women? What if I were to tell you that based on my experience some Nigerian men have a preference for African-American women because they think you’re better looking than Nigerian and/or African women as a whole?
Friend: I don’t care about that.
As much as this conversation felt that it was jumping all over the place, I think it embodies many of the conversations I’ve had with the majority of the black women who have noted their objection to my dating interracially.
I want to be clear on what I’m saying though, this isn’t to say that ALL/MOST/MANY black women subscribe to this perspective; it is simply to say the ones who have noted their objection have for the most part been unwilling to examine their privileges within the larger (global) black community.
As much as there has been discussion about black men who disrespect black women AND then use this as an excuse to date interracially, I get the impression that in conversations every black man/woman who dates interracially is automatically charged as being “race traitor” and having a preference for someone who is better because she/he is not black. I sincerely believe African American women have faced indescribable sexism from men from their own community in the form of being described as less than other women as well as being insulted as community property for dating/marrying interracially.
However, I find that when I try to engage the conversation injecting my dating history, things start to degenerate with charges of preferences, self-hating and race traitor are thrown around with no cause. This makes it particularly frustrating considering the complexities of dating hierarchies that exist within the larger black community. By this I mean the fact that in some instances black women enjoy certain privileges of preference amongst other black communities. To give you an example, I remember a conversation I had with my aunt when I mentioned that I was dating an African American woman. My aunt’s response was to ask why I couldn’t find a good Yoruba woman (I’m not even going to go into the maddening ethnic fractures that ensues when folks hear that I am Ijebu-Yoruba). She then asked me why I thought African American women were more beautiful because they had “good hair”, fairer complexion and were Americans.
Certainly, this basis of this question associates all Americans with “whiteness” and anything that is thus associated is better (even when no such difference exists between African-Americans and Africans). But this still does not negate the reality that within the black diaspora, African American women are in some ways privileged over African women. I wish I could tell you how many times I’ve actually seen this play out with exchange students I met when I was in secondary/high school and university, men and women who I noted enjoyed the attention and (to the best of my knowledge of our interactions) did not question the attention. I also remember SOME of the African American women who married well-educated, wealthy, upper class and in some cases celebrity Nigerian men*, who treated their Nigerian families and black compatriots with the kind of disdain you would expect from white colonials. I want to be clear again about this, I am not saying ALL/MOST/MANY African-American women who are married to Nigerian men wield their privileges this way. Not at all, what I am asking is why is it that black folks who date interracially are automatically labeled as haters of people of their own race when a similar unexamined racialized dynamic/ hierarchy and privilege exists within the diversity of the black diaspora?
* The anecdotal evidence that I observed on black intra-ethnic pairings while growing up in Nigeria actually bears out in the last data I’ve seen. Rachel at Rachel’s Tavern reviewed a 2006 article by Baston and Lichter in the Journal of Marriage and Family and noted that “West Indians and Africans marry African Americans much more frequently than they marry Whites” The other important thing to note is that majority of African-American and African pairings are African-American women and African men. The link is here.
(Photo credit: Nigeria’s Next Top Model, “Where’s Tyra” comment by Nijagal )
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
lunanoire wrote:
Interesting comment. For some reason I seem to appeal to people who are 2nd or 1.5 generation Americans who are either of the African or Latin American diaspora. However, as someone who usually dates about 1 person per year for 1-3 dates, this hardly feels like privilege.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 11:02 am ¶
drispe wrote:
Isn’t that just the height of arrogance? The people questioning a relationship that crosses ethnic lines never seem to question their racially exclusive romances. I’m sure they claim Barack Obama as their own in the same breath, and let his white mother off the hook.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 11:13 am ¶
Mickey wrote:
All that beauty in one picture.
Teh Internets will explode.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 11:21 am ¶
TierList E wrote:
Wow, I didn’t know such a dynamic existed between Afam and African women. I thought if you threw one under the bus, the other went as well.
It could be where I live, but the vast majority of black men I know accepts or prefers black women. I’ve ran across color preferences within the black community (in both sexes) but the times where anyone completely dissed the whole of black women were few and far between, whatever their actual dating history.
I mean, I ran across a few, but for everyone of those I ran into a non-black man who is okay with black women (overall a much rarer phenomenon in my experience).
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 11:24 am ¶
livininphilly wrote:
This is an interesting article. Thank you for putting this viewpoint out there. I had no idea this existed (before I get jumped on let me say that I almost exclusively date women). The question “why isn’t the privelege of AfAm women among the larger black population?” deserves a closer look. I have recently begun to start exploring my own privelege. In fact for a long time I didn’t think I had privelege (falsely believing only white people had it) but recently through discussions with friends I have started to see it. I wanna think about this more but I wanted to post this comment & give props.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:08 pm ¶
SAH wrote:
There is a lot of discussion that needs to happen about the African-American/African dynamic and co-existence in America. There is competition, spite, and tension between the groups that I think we are merely at the brim of.
It begins with acknowledging the differences and the history of the disconnect, and then moving forward with possible solutions that may result in the state of a more understanding and enlightened diaspora.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:13 pm ¶
CVT wrote:
Good post. I have all sorts of thoughts/opinions on interracial relationships, but this is definitely an angle I hadn’t pursued. Thanks for the point of view.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
Love wrote:
This is a good discussion.
I agree with your analysis. My sister’s friend, an African-American girl married a Nigerian guy and we witnessed her on several occasions treat him like crap. She made references to jaundice jokingly, even though his eyes weren’t at all discolored, she made fun of him in public; it was really a mess. He ended up leaving her, but the fact that he married her in the first place since she even did it while they were dating, showed that he had deep seated issues with himself and the status that he thought marrying an American would bring him. Also, I think it is the most common amongst Nigerians since they have more exposure than other African countries to American media, so they end up internalizing American ideals of beauty. Men from other countries generally still marry their women. It may be mostly Nigeria, but Nollywood still has very dark-skinned actresses. It may also be something that happens to African men that grow up in the US. They try to blend in to African-American culture to avoid teasing, isolation, etc., and end up adopting what is acceptable to African-Americans. The beauty of African women is not one of those things. Think about famous African-American women today. Almost ALL of them have European features.
Also to be fair, you definitely get both sides. There are African men who date African-American women for the same reason that Black athletes date White women, and there are African men who have very racist and stereotypical views about African-American women.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:46 pm ¶
jetessence wrote:
Why would you bring up an african american women vs african women argument during an interracial dating discussion? I read your explanation, but it still, as an afro-Canadian woman, doesn’t make sense to me.
Does the hierarchy that supposedly exists between AAW and AW negate or even make acceptable the hierarchy that exists in the North American that “white is right?”
Personally, I don’t care who is dating who. I appreciate that you acknowledge some of the societal ills black women have suffered at the hands of black men, but you don’t seem to grasp the effect those brothers have left on a huge group of black women. 70% of black women are unmarried in the US (i can’t remember the exact stat). For some of these black women, seeing a brother date outside of their race (especially if that women is not a PoC) is a slap in the face. Add the breakdown of the black family in America and the accepted misogyny that exists in black American culture. Who is there to support a sistah’s cause? Instead, she is blamed for the poor state of the family (she should have kept her legs closed, remember), crime, and “driving” black men to date women of other races. I don’t know any group of people (bound by ancestry and history) who treat each other the same way.
So, date who you will. I sure do. Just don’t imply that black women are benefitting from “whiteness hierarchy” or the historical oppression of colonialism in AAW vs. AW. It’s that hierarchy that’s killing our community today, and doesn’t benefit black people (especially black women) in the least.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:47 pm ¶
jetessence wrote:
let me just add that while I am an Afro-Canadian, I am first generation Canadian in my family. My parents and extended family were born and raised in Jamaica. So I have heard all the matchups:
-AA women vs. African women
-AA women vs. Carribbean women.
-AA women vs blah blah blah
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 12:50 pm ¶
shah8 wrote:
Just a data point…
I’d be pretty willing to date an african woman. I’ve had some pretty positive experiences with them in the US. So many are cosmopolitan and worldly, it’s almost like a reverse-sailer effect for me.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
Shelby wrote:
Hm, very interesting. I’m a Black American with some visible euro/amerindian features. I’m pretty aware of the amount of privilege I have over black people with darker skin or coarser hair, etc. However, I think when it comes to dating it’s not so much privilege as it is objectification. I definitely benefit when it comes to how people react to me in job or school settings. But when it comes to dating I feel like I’m either ignored or exoticized.
But of course, it’s hard to see privilege when you’re the one who has it. I’ll definitely be thinking more about this from now on.
Great discussion
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 1:20 pm ¶
Nadra wrote:
I am the product of a Nigerian/Af-Am union. My father is Yoruba and my mother is African American. Yes, I’ve noticed that African/Af-Am pair ups tend to be composed of African males and Af-Am females. In fact, I don’t know of any African woman involved with an Af-Am male. So, I agree that, in these pairings, Af-Am women seem to have an “advantage” over their African female counterparts. After marrying my mother and then another Af-Am woman, however, my father said goodbye to Af-Am women and is now married to a Nigerian Muslim woman. As for the reasons he was drawn to my mother, it’s not because she is light-skinned, has “good hair,” etc. She is actually darker than my father is and falls into the “Nubian goddess” variety looks wise. I will say that I know of a number of African women who have been involved with white men. Perhaps black men have more issues partnering with African women than white men do. I don’t know. I also believe that in some ways Africans have advantages over Af-Ams in white society. A lot of whites seem to be drawn to Africans because of the exoticism factor. I guess I shouldn’t call this an advantage, but you get my drift. Though I was raised by my black mother and my white stepfather and identify as African American, many whites who find out that I am half-Yoruba zone in on this. They want me to be African rather than African American because being African is much more appealing to them for various reasons.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
lunanoire wrote:
Nadra, in addition to the exoticism, the relatively low # of African immigrants to the US for political and economic reasons means that the average African immigrant is well-educated, ambitious, and worldly.
Shelby, I wrestle w/ my opinions on people who are objectified/ ignored/ exoticized. As someone who falls in the “ignored” category most of the time, I think at a more inocuous level it relates to giving someone the benefit of the doubt (or date). For example some men are attracted to women with large breasts, while others are attracted to large breasts and don’t really care about the woman who owns them.
On a more insidious level, it divides us into the ignored and the objectified. At this point I do view it as a privilege that may contain objectification.
What role do Af-Am women’s concerns about gender roles in dating/marrying other Africans of the diaspora fit in?
jetessence- yes, this issue seems to be small in numbers in the US compared to the 40% never married 30% divorced statistic.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 1:47 pm ¶
Milander wrote:
Good topic and I’m impressed that no single person has called out the ‘racist’ card as yet, you’ve articulated yourself very well.
Just to add something though, and my reason for posting, it is not just black or coloured people who experience these kinds of issues.
I’m a straight white guy married to a lovely white girl, difference is I’m British and she is Hungarian. We are both white but NOT the same race. We have experienced prejudice from her friends - “couldn’t you find a nice hungarian boy?” - “Hey, what’s wrong with british girls mate?” - and also some backhanded remarks as well from family and friends. When I’ve confronted them over it they’ve often just dismissed their comment as - “you didn’t understand what I was trying to say” - kinda crap.
I’ve lived in many countries over the years and beauty really is in the eye of the beholder regardless of race or colour and I’m not just talking about physical beauty but beauty of the soul too.
Personally, if I had not met my future wife, I’d be proud to have a woman of colour (black if you prefer to use that term) as a wife as they are usually strong of will, strong with their men, mentally strong and also amazing lovers.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 1:57 pm ¶
cw wrote:
Is the reason why African-American men and African women unions don’t happen as often is because of the negative image cast by the major media in this country?
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 2:09 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:
I know nothing about this topic due to the low number of first-generation Africans in town, a mostly Nigerian highly educated group and a mostly Eritrean former refugee working class group.
Is there a living tradition of arranged marriage among the middle and upper class Nigerian population, and was Sewere’s aunt anxious to take part in the matchmaking as well as anxious for him to marry into (presumably) her ethnic group?
(I am thinking about the sometimes conflicting marriage partner expectations of NRI/desi marriage-age children and their Indian or NRI parents).
(NRI = non-resident Indian - a common abbreviation in English-language Indian media).
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 2:14 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>We are both white but NOT the same race.
Not sure how racial classifications work in GB, {never mind that “race” is a social construct], but in the US, most people would consider 2 people native to Western or Eastern Europe to be “white,” “European,” “Caucasian,” etc.
Although I do know that slavic peoples have experienced (and sometimes still do) prejudice from western Europeans, (and Americans of the same) . I mean, please, the US Government had one set of immigration quotas for people from say England or France, and a whole ‘nother set for people from Italy, or Poland (and other parts of eastern Europe).
>I’d be proud to have a woman of colour (black if you prefer to use that term) as a wife as they are usually strong of will, strong with their men, mentally strong and also amazing lovers.
Oh, and then you had to go ruin it. For the last time, positive stereotypes are STILL sterotypes and false on their face. Not to mention the image of the “Strong Black Woman, ” (TM) which too often has been an excuse for mistreatment and dismissal of black women’s very humanity.
>strong of will,
As opposed to WHAT ethnic/”racial” group?
>strong with their men,
I repeat, as oppossed to what other group?
>mentally strong
Ideas like this is why mental illnesses and depression among black women is traditionally underreported and undertreated - after all, if you can’t DEAL with your man (ew on the sexism there) and life in general, then you must be weak and not a real sister. *UGH*
>and also amazing lovers.
EW. Lemme say it again. EWWW.
Sexual expression and personal preferences are LEARNED behaviors. They can have cultural elements as far as expression and judgements as to what is acceptable, pleasurable, or appropriate, or permissable (and culture can be religious, generational, etc.) but overall are a factor of personal experience, observations, level of biological knowlege, and self-awareness. Unless you’re saying there are… “black” ways to have sex?
Considering how often black women have been portrayed as Jezebels, as temptresses, as sluts, as easy lays… I repeat, THIS IS NO COMPLIMENT.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 2:22 pm ¶
exhausted wrote:
Milander said:
“Personally, if I had not met my future wife, I’d be proud to have a woman of colour (black if you prefer to use that term) as a wife as they are usually strong of will, strong with their men, mentally strong and also amazing lovers.”
Please. I’m exhausted today. Somebody PLEASE talk to Milander about this statement!
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 2:23 pm ¶
Eva wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how many barriers people put up. The reality is that if you find someone you can share your life with, no matter the race or the color, go for it. I’m not saying love is all you need but it helps.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 2:32 pm ¶
Jen* wrote:
My father runs into a similar stereotype from black women at church. Because he married my mom (a white woman), there is the assumption that he would only ever talk to white women. [now that they’re divorced]
In actuality, he has dated black, white, and mixed women in his life, but he is at an age where he doesn’t really care what other people think.
Interesting the leaps and jumps to conclusions that some will take, though.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:16 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:
Hey folks,
Many thanks for your comments. I unfortunately can’t respond to all of them right now as I’m on the road but I get back tonight and will respond accordingly.
Cheers!
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:36 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
@ Lyonside–I’d be proud to have a woman of colour (black if you prefer to use that term) as a wife as they are usually strong of will, strong with their men, mentally strong and also amazing lovers.
Oh, and then you had to go ruin it.
Co-sign with your whole statement, and especially this part.
@ Sewere–this is a really great post, friend! I, too, never really thought about how my American advantage would play out in larger (meaning international) black communities because I myopically believe that the disadvantages I have in the US would play out on larger world stages. And, I suspect, that’s where your “friend” was coming from with her criticizing your dating choices. You, in her eyes, became another Black man, flattened of any individual history or ethnicity, and “y’all” weren’t dating/marrying/procreating with the sistahs.
Sewere, I really gotta think about this one…which is why I heart you, dude.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:38 pm ¶
Shelby wrote:
I’d just like to co-sign on Lyonside’s response to Milander’s comment. You said everything I wanted to say! That last part about black women as “amazing lovers” gave me an “ew” feeling as well. I’d rather not be stereotyped as a sex-crazed animal, thanks.
Lunanoir, I definitely feel where you’re coming from. I spent (and am spending) most of my adolescence/early adulthood around white people. I was for sure in the “ignore” category all through middle and high school. And in college I fall somewhere between “ignored” and the glorified “mixed girl” status. I have a hard time giving men who call me “exotic” or say I have “good hair” the benefit of the doubt though (and they usually waste no time in letting these phrases slip.) Probably because men have used those terms as a prelude to assaulting me in clubs, on the street, or wherever else I happen to be. But maybe I tend to remember the negative. It’s possible I’ve been afforded more respect by some men for the way I look too.
So I guess I’d call being black american/mixed black a privilege that almost always contains objectification.
And I know black women as a whole face more violence. But I wonder if there’s a difference in the US between the violence perpetrated against African women and black women descended from slaves? Not a pleasant thing to think about, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the more “African” one is perceived, the more violence they face. I’d like to stick my head in the sand and say it didn’t matter, but then I guess I’d be acting kind of “colorblind.”
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:41 pm ¶
Ron wrote:
I know that Nigerian men will dissuade Nigerian women from dating black american men. However, I have close family and friends who happen to be married to African women, albeit Ethiopian and Fulani looking women.
I think the discussion about African men and African American women is outdated though. African men have been marrying black american women sense the 60s’.
Of course colorism comes into play. Many Nigerian (Hausa) men prefer Fulani women as opposed to Ibgo and Yoruba.
Many Nigerian women use bleaching products to lighten their skin to conform to such colorism.
African American women seem to be incidental beneficiaries of this colorism.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:49 pm ¶
JD/ formerly J wrote:
co-sign on the fact that there are more white male/African female combos.
I think some of it is because of the negative stereotypes of American Blacks around the world. I know my mom was surprised when she came to visit me in college from Ghana and all my Black friends were perfectly average middle of the road people….you know like people tend to be in college. Sometimes African parents think that every Black guy from America is a member of 3 6 Mafia.
Also Africans were colonised like a lot of other people around the world so marrying white is still considered by some to be an upgrade and the mixed kids are treated like hot stuff. Meanwhile with Black people in America, alot of Africans think themsleves to be better motivated and better educated than their American counterparts so the sentiment usually is if you are going to marry Black might as well be the good, well educated African boy whose father is your father’s business buddy.
Finally, I have found ( in my own admittedly limited experience) that my ‘exotic-ness’ is considered more apealling to white people than AfAms. I mean if (supposedly), there is no love from the brothas for dark-skinned American sistas then I dont know if there is any out there for a ’straight from the motherland- no mix’ African chick.
Please forgive any rash generalisations
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:58 pm ¶
JD/ formerly J wrote:
whew, there are some crazy long sentences in my post. Sorry
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 3:59 pm ¶
really wrote:
@ Ron & JD
Um yeah, you do realise that Africans come in all shades from really light to really dark and not only the North Africans but West Africans too. I don’t understand what you guys think African chicks looks like.
@ Ron
The generalisations you make about Nigerian men and women are crazy, I don’t even know where to start. Many Hausa men prefer to marry Fulani and Hausa chicks because they are Hausa and or Fulani. The same way Igbos and Yorubas tend to marry within their tribe. Like attract like, nothing to it.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 5:52 pm ¶
chairo wrote:
I identify with so much of this article it’s kinda worrying lol.
In my case my Nigerian mother married a black Carribean man. Growing up every now and then i’d get the insult “you black african” from my cousins. In high school black africans students would get the same dumb crap from Carribeans. This was always, always one sided. I’d never see a kid from Zimbabwe, Ghana, or nigeria bullying a Carribean kid cause of his/her complexion or facial features.
To be really honest black africans in my high school were more likely to experience insults about skin complexion and facial features from black carribeans than from whites. This attitude and other “black” memes just make me dislike the suffocating confines of “blackness”.
With interracial dating i’ve also experienced this hounding from black females. The “race traitor” attitude isn’t exclusive to black men. I definitely understand why some females would feel insecure, and frustrated. But to go as far as to call someone a “race traitor” or “ashamed of being black” is just ridiculous. There are certain areas worth noting.
In the “indie” “alternative” environment I usually find myself in there are hardly any non-white folk. When I’d see a black female with a white guy at first I honestly found this really cool seeing as that seldom happened; but the more i saw black females just with white guys and not asian, arab, or black guys the more it kinda bothered me. I’m pretty sure the scene kinda gets many non-white kids yearning for a white partner, but I’ve just decided to put social conditioning out of my head whenever i see these white + non white combination. I try to be optimistic and hope that the kid isn’t racially conflicted. Even though i’m not a punk i identified with the kids in the afropunk documentary when this issue was brought up.
A friend of mine from philedelphia has been making me aware of a few of her non-white middle class and intellectual friends who have a racial preference for white guys; and aren’t abashed about proudly saying that.
Now I find any racial preference just worrying, and when an indian girl sardonically says “i prefer the aryan look” and “they just have stronger genes y’know”
I get very scared
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 6:19 pm ¶
chairo wrote:
just to add
I think my Greek and Turkish friends could probably identify with the point Milander made about not being the same race as his girlfriend. I won’t address the silly positive stereotypes he added as others already have.
But when it comes to race, people very easily can differentiate between many european “whites”.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/istanbulmike/311011123/in/set-72157594400180191/
calling a guy like the dude above white just seems silly to me. None of my aforementioned friends would “identify as white”, their family life and culture is completely different to that of English whites. People in my neighbourhood would easily recognise them as greek, turkish, Italian, and regard them as that before even thinking of saying white.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 6:41 pm ¶
JD/formerly J wrote:
@ really
Well, I did say in my limited experience….I can only speak as the dark skinned Ghanaian child of two dark-skinned parents. I am not saying there are no lightskinned Ghanaians but I did nt see THAAAT many in my 18 yrs. Of course I stand corrected….
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 7:27 pm ¶
Nadra wrote:
I know that Nigerians come in all shades, as I have seen “high-yellow” Nigerians, including among the Yoruba.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 7:37 pm ¶
KOKO wrote:
Sewere. As a white woman married to a Nigerian man, I find your article very insightful. I understand your correlation between Afamw and Afw and how it applies to your relationship with your wife. I have found no matter who you date, inside your race or not, there will always be someone out there that feels the need to find a flaw in your relationship. It is sad when people feel the need to devote even a minute of their time to question your dating preference. Love is love, and if someone love’s a person of your own race enough to commit their entire life to them, where is the fault in that? Isn’t that what should be trying to achieve? I think we should be embracing interracial relationships. Shouldn’t we be rising above a world where we judge others because of their skin color or ethnicity? I am happy in the family I married into and am very blessed to be surrounded with in laws who see my love for my husband as just that. I have experienced many years of hateful words, looks, and discrimination from complete strangers because I love a man of another race. This has only taught me that I will never please everyone and to only feel sorry for those ignorant enough to pass judgement on someone they do not even know and a relationship they know nothing about. We can’t please them all…
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 7:58 pm ¶
dt wrote:
I’d also like to cosign Lyonside re: Milander. Ick!
@jetessence - Please don’t pull an Obama and fault Black men for the problems with Black families. If far fewer than 1 in 9 Black men 20-34 were behind bars the dating pool of Black men for Black women would grow far more significantly than if Black men decided to only date within the race. And the racist prison system is something we can “blame” and work towards abolishing without putting down anyone just for having a consenting adult relationship…
I think there are also issues of self-image and self-esteem that affect racial preferences, because white features are put on a pedestal. Personally my preference is not towards people of any given race or ethnicity, but rather people who love themselves (and I wish more people of color really did love themselves) and carry themselves appropriately. Personally I find myself attracted to people of lots of backgrounds who are proud of who they are and embrace their features, and I find myself turned off whenever I find someone who is trying to escape their ethnicity to be something they’re not - black woman putting loads of product and relaxers in their hair to make their hair look straight or white women putting chemicals in their hair to make it look ethnic just doesn’t do it for me.
I just wish we didn’t live in a world where non-white people were constantly told that they should aspire to look white. Self loathing is a turnoff for me, and that lowers my dating pool way more than anyone’s racial preferences for partners, and, just like going after the prison system, going after self loathing is way more positive than going after the relationships of consenting adults.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 8:10 pm ¶
Twentysomething wrote:
@cw
I think so. I am Nigerian, and although I do not like to talk badly about my brethren, I do believe that many (not all) Nigerians look down on African Americans… mainly because of they way African Americans are portrayed in the media. I know a lot of Nigerians who call African Americans “akata”, which to me is synonymous to the n word. I think some Nigerians are afraid of being lumped together with African Americans because of these images, and as a result, they tend to stay away from them.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 8:38 pm ¶
Ron wrote:
really -
You know there is a difference between Hausa and Fulani - just because they are from the North and muslim does not make them the same.
I know sometimes Southerners tend to lump Northerners into one ethnic group based upon shared hostility to both groups.
I know Nigerians and/or Africans come in many shades but we have to generalize here. Lets be honest. The average Nigerian is dark brown that is the normative color.
Is colorism an issue in Nigeria?
Are Fulani women known for their beauty?
Of course most relationships are within Ibgo and so forth. I would go so far to say staying in one’s caste is also preferable as well.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 8:53 pm ¶
Korolev wrote:
First of all - to the author of the article: Great Article. Wonderful Article. Couldn’t agree with you more.
The very idea that people should only date members of their own ethnic group is a form of separatism, division and racism.
Why should a black person be confined to only dating black people? Are white people somehow viewed as being “different” in a fundamental sense?
Too many people say they are not racist, but secretly harbor a “separate-but-equal-view”. Let me be crystal clear. Go to a dictionary. Look up the very definition of racism. The dictionary definition of racism is
“A belief that human races have distinctive characteristics that determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s race is superior and has the right to control others”
That is racism.
So a “separate-but-equal” way of thinking is racist. Black people are not a separate “people” in any biologically significant way. The only real difference between Black people and white people is the amount of melanin in the skin.
This idea that “black people should date black people” and “white people should date white people” and “asian people should date asian people” - it’s racism. Pure and simple. It is assigning people to a category.
Maybe a black person dates a white person because they like each other! Oooooh is that such a shock!? Why should a black person show preference to black people? Isn’t that racism itself?
If someone exclusively dates ONLY within their race and refuses to date outside their ethnic group, isn’t that itself a form of discrimination and fetishism?
In a perfect world, no one would care who dates who. We are all HUMAN.
Posted 09 Jul 2008 at 10:37 pm ¶
stickinthemud wrote:
I found this to be a fascinating post. But I’m not sure what to make of it yet. I have my hopeless pan-Africanist moments, so hearing about tensions within the diaspora tend to make me weary very quickly. Also, I am the child of an AfAm woman and Nigerian man, though I was just raised by my mother.
And on a slightly divergent note: I have to confess that as a black woman, I often tire of repititious discussions of white privelege. I’m not saying I don’t think it is necessary, but I worry about what happens to nationality privileged people of color –especially black folks, men and women–when we get so used to highlighting the advantages that whites have and don’t take the time to examine our status as “Westerners”. Oftentimes during discussions about race, I am curious about what parallels there may be between a white person’s privilege in this nation and my American privilege in the world, but I am afraid to bring it up for fear of being reprimanded (not necesarily at Racialicious, but in other discussions I run into in my life). I don’t know if that is a false fear or not, but in an increasingly global world, I think black people could stand to explore the passes our nationalities give us a bit more, lest we wield them as thoughtlessly and arrogantly as other groups of folks we that we love to critique.
—————
chairo–
“In the “indie” “alternative” environment I usually find myself in there are hardly any non-white folk. When I’d see a black female with a white guy at first I honestly found this really cool seeing as that seldom happened; but the more i saw black females just with white guys and not asian, arab, or black guys the more it kinda bothered me. I’m pretty sure the scene kinda gets many non-white kids yearning for a white partner, but I’ve just decided to put social conditioning out of my head whenever i see these white + non white combination. I try to be optimistic and hope that the kid isn’t racially conflicted. Even though i’m not a punk i identified with the kids in the afropunk documentary when this issue was brought up.”
Along with Afropunk, there’s another independent film that recently came out that deals somewhat with this issue called Medicine for Melancholy. That has nothing to do with this post, but reading your response made me think of it and I just wanted to mention.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 12:14 am ¶
AC wrote:
Really interesting article. My sister-in-law is Kenyan, my brother 1st generation Carribean/Canadian/First Nations (we identify as Black - lol!). What I have noticed while visiting with both her and her sister (who is also married to an American Black male) is some level of colorism - a lot of admiration of my hair and my facial features. And this coming from a former model? Heady stuff to a woman who grew up largely ignored in my predominately white community, much like Shelby.
But all that admiration did touch off some thought on colorism. I hadn’t gotten to any deep thoughts about my potential privilege vis a vie African women because I see examples of african american men marrying african women around me. I didn’t realize it was statistically atypical.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 12:21 am ¶
Sewere wrote:
Apologies for the long comment but I wanted to get back to y’all
@Jetessence
Good point, as Lyonside as said, even positive stereotypes are false stereotypes. It still doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who in the short-term “benefit” from this stereotypes. Perfect example, there are black men who think that the stereotype of having a large penis helps them get into women’s pants. It’s short-sighted but in their minds it’s a benefit. Other people are willing to challenge their privileges.
Shelby for example (by the way many thanks for the example Shelby),
@ Nadra
Omo iya mi, I’ve been meaning to greet you properly since you came on board. We definitely have much to talk about.
@ Milander,
I appreciate what you intended to say in your post, but as most folks have said what you ended up doing was trotting out stereotypes that do not benefit women of color and black women in any way.
@ cw
To be honest, I think this is part of the problem, but I also think that the major reason is that sexism limits the choices African women have in the people they choose to have a relationship.
@ NancyP
There really isn’t a culture of arranged marriages that I know of with Yoruba folk (other Yoruba folk can correct me if I’m wrong). However, there is definitely a push to pair with someone who is of the same class and ethno-lingual group (For ex. Ekiti-Yoruba with Ekiti-Yoruba). Fortunately, that has been happening less often and most people in my age group are starting to marry outside their ethnic groups (For ex. Yoruba and Ibo, Ibo and Hausa).
@ Lunanoire
You said it better than I could.
@TCS
Can’t wait to read what you think.
All that sweet talk has me blushing dark ebony
P.S: What happened to your blog? I’ve been trying to get back to you on a paricular post. Please ask Latoya to send me your email or get mine from her. (Latoya if you catch this please send TCS my email, Thanks). [Done - LDP]
@ Shelby
Great and very important question, although I wouldn’t immediately jump to the same conclusion. Working in reproductive health and issues surrounding gender equality, I often see evidence of how violence is manifested amongst different groups of the same race (e.g. immigrant blacks and US-born blacks) but I haven’t seen anything that points to increased violence in immigrant blacks. But that could be as a result of how data is collected. I wish I had more time to research an answer to your question.
@ Ron
Partly true, this is the sexism I was trying to explain.
Also very true, most folks of my parents’ generation were among the large wave of African’s going to college in the US and Europe.
To quote Lyonside, “Oh, and then you had to go ruin a perfectly reasonable comment with overgeneralizations.” Sure you don’t have more prejudices to add? Oh but before you jump into them here a few questions for you.
How is what you said about preference for inter-ethnic pairings any different from what I and others have said?
How did you get to do a census on ALL/MOST Nigerian women that you can unequivocally say “many” use bleaching products? And how are they different from other dark skinned people who use bleaching products?
And how did you come to the conclusion that colorism only exists in the African context?
@ really
Thanks for bringing in some sense into the discussion.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 1:15 am ¶
Johnathan wrote:
I am so glad I found this blog.
The people who comment are so interesting and diverse.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 1:48 am ¶
Vanes wrote:
My parents are from Nigeria.
Some of you guys got it wrong about black american women being more desirable than African women and children of African immigrants.
The most common reason why you see more Af-men with black american women is the fact that these men are free to marry whomever they want. African women are not so free b/c in general their fathers will not tolerate it under no circumstances.
My father put it this way for me when he told me ” Nigerian (Igbo) men only…definitely no black american b/c they are lazy” ( my mother totally agrees with him)….b/c of the fact that when a women Marries out she is gone forever in their eyes. He says that she has married into her husbands family culture and thus less likely to come back to Nigeria. Yet, when a Nigerian marries out…the children are Nigerian, his wife will most likely visit Nigeria b/c they take on his name and must defer to the husband/father since he is the man of the household.
Nigeria is a very patriarchal society…men could do whatever they want but women can’t.
Plus, whenever I visit Nigeria my relatives are constantly hassling me about getting married and that I must go “home” aka IMO state or other Igbo states to find a husband.
My brothers don’t get the same pressure that my family have been pressuring me for the last few years. In fact, my parents have not tried to set up my brother with any women but on several occasions at least 4x they have tried to get me to “talk” to some good boy in Nigeria.
So, this whole thing about black american women being better is totally B.S. considering so many people in my family always talk badly about black Americans.
It boils down to the girl being pressured into doing what is right for the family.
The OP should discuss how many Africans think 2nd generation or the children of immigrants are seen in a negative light. You don’t know how many times so African dude would say…” You smart and honest for someone being born in the u.s”.
The OP didn’t also discuss how so many African men usually go home back to Nigeria to the village to find wives b/c the they the Africans born are not submissive enough. God honest truth.
The OP also doesn’t point out how many men may have a wife in Nigeria and a wife here in the U.S….very common. For an example, My uncle is married to a Japanese lady ( they have 1 daughter) that I have never met but 2 years ago he went to Nigeria to marry a lady from Port Harcourt b/c his Japanese wife didn’t give him a son and his mother was pressuring him to marring a Nigerian women.
LIke I said before the whole thing about African men preferring black american women and thus reason why they marry them more is hogwash.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 3:01 am ¶
Kepler wrote:
Not to derail the topic, but I love how the generalization of Africans is backed by West African POVs, predominately Nigerians. As an East African (Kenyan) 2nd gen American, allow me to throw in my two cents.
It’s been my experience that both Kenyan men and women are pressured by their families to marry from their own tribe. A more ‘lenient’ parent might ‘allow’ a child to marry outside one’s tribe as long as the intended is still Kenyan. (wow, it just dawned on me how our culture views even adult children as property, and expects them to perform the role of ‘obedient child’). Marrying a person from another region of the continent is considered revolutionary or suicidal, depending on what part of the continent. Many parents frown down on marriages to Americans, whether black or white (it’s also interesting how the overall perception of Americans is still restricted to these two groups). If a person (usually male) marries an American, it is generally assumed the person is seeking a green card and plans on eventually divorcing the American and marrying from the approved group. This was very common in the 70s, but seems less so now (purely anecdotal).
I guess that means, most single women from Kenya fret more about Kenyan men marrying outside the tribe.
But as Vanes stated, the view of women leaving the community and men staying after marriage holds in Kenyan communities. As such, there is more pressure on Kenyan women to marry within their tribe. Again, anecdotal, but I’ve seen female relatives denied parental blessings on a union on the sole basis of the male not being from our tribe. However, this almost never happens to my male relatives, some of whom have sworn up and down they will never marry within our tribe.
To address the concept of whether there are dating advantages to being an African female, I’ve noticed two types of people who gravitate towards me: Men (usually American or Western European) who are interested in being with (or is it having?) an ebony goddess (after all, I am, ethnically speaking, ‘not-mixed’); and Kenyan men who are trying to stay in/enter the country legally by marrying an American. In their minds, this is the best of both worlds: a marriage their parents can bless with the benefits that come with marrying an American.
I hesitate to call those advantages.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 8:52 am ¶
Jenn wrote:
What’s the deal with all the colorism. Most black Americans are brown/dark skinned and don’t have so called “good hair” or the beauty supply industry would have crashed years ago. If you look beyond TV and into real life one would notice that. The average black woman is not a light skinned/biracial woman. There is no colorism issues among aa women and african women. Give me a break
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 9:22 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Jenn,
Sorry, that’s your last sentence is making a huge assumption.
Yes, there are colorism issues among AA women and African women. From personal experience, I can remember a lot of issues in high school revolving around that dynamic, including an African-American girl who was dark, being teased. In addition to being called “Jackie Blackie” she was also called “Jackie African” and one guy said “she’s so dark, she looks like she came from the motherland.”
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 9:31 am ¶
Ron wrote:
To quote Lyonside, “Oh, and then you had to go ruin a perfectly reasonable comment with overgeneralizations.” Sure you don’t have more prejudices to add? Oh but before you jump into them here a few questions for you.
Q: How is what you said about preference for inter-ethnic pairings any different from what I and others have said?
A: We said basically the same thing so I am guilty of not adding anything.
Q: How did you get to do a census on ALL/MOST Nigerian women that you can unequivocally say “many” use bleaching products?
A: Never made such a conclusion but if I did then I am incorrect.
Q: And how are they different from other dark skinned people who use bleaching products?
A: There is no difference. My point was to illustrate that colorism is an issue on the Continent. Further, the bleaching industry is growing in Africa and worldwide wherever dark skinned people exist. Thus, colorism exists in many places besides Africa.
Q: And how did you come to the conclusion that colorism only exists in the African context?
A: No, colorism exists even among AA and Africans in the US.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 10:01 am ¶
Ailurophile wrote:
Thank you for this post. It’s eye-opening and informative to read about IR’s that are not just “POC + white person.”
It sounds to me as if culture, background, and family expectations (not “race” per se) has a lot to do with whether a relationship succeeds or not; and/or whether someone dates or marries outside their group in the first place. Much to think about.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 1:16 pm ¶
C-Marsh wrote:
@ Jenn
Latoya hit the nail on the head! I would venture to say that it is an erroneous assumption on your part to believe that there is no colorism in the black community, or to believe that about any community for that matter. I am a light skinned black man and I know that I have experienced privilege over darker brothas from the time I was 10 years old. For instance, one time when I was playing with my friends, who were racially diverse, and the cops rolled up on us. They didn’t mess with the white kids, but harassed my black friends. Because I was so light skinned all I had to do was make sure I blended in with the white kids. Guess what? They didn’t harass me either. Not to say that I haven’t had bogus run ins with the PoPo because I am black, but even at such a young age I was able to recognize that because I was light skinned I had privilege.
Furthermore, there is an array of different skin tones among the black community. In fact, there is more genetic variability within a “race” than there is across “races.” My point is that people are not made from cookie cutters. It is possible for there to be phenotypic diversity within a “race.”
Props Latoya! I’ve just started checking out this site and I think you are amazing!!! Keep up the good work!
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 1:24 pm ¶
chi wrote:
@ Vanes–
You have a point. Nigeria is gradually becoming more modern, so to speak, with regard to social standards. With that said, though, the culture is still generally male-oriented. But as other commenters mentioned with regard to colorism, Nigerians are not a monolith and do not all share the same opinions, thoughts, etc.
I’m a second generation American-born Nigerian woman with Igbo parents (from Imo state as well). I’ve dated both White and Asian men but have not been forced or heavily encouraged to consider marriage to a Nigerian (Igbo or not). Instead, my parents are quick to offer advice, particularly when it comes to racism from the side of my partner’s family, which I’m grateful for of course. They are completely open to my marrying (if I choose that route,…I’m anti-marriage right now =P) outside of my race/ethnicity; it’s my happiness that matters most to them and that whomever my partner may be respects that and my family.
Wow…my longest comment yet. I was taught to “speak my discomfort” so here I am.
Great post Sewere! Surely, it’s difficult to cover such a range of topics in one post, but I’m happy that you brought this issue to light.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 2:01 pm ¶
lunanoire wrote:
C-Marsh, Thank you for offering an anecdote of light skinned privilege. It seems like often when colorism is discussed, light people discuss their pain and are less likely to admit their privilege, but that seems to be a common thread w/ all forms of privilege.
At the risk of being inflammatory, I would really like to see African American marriage rates based on skin color b/c the odds are that light people have a wider pool of people who would be interested in them: some for the right reasons, some not. Even at a date auction at an HBCU, the females chosen for the fundraiser looked the most like a video girl- they all would pass a paper bag test.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 2:46 pm ¶
C-Marsh wrote:
@ Lunanoire
Not to shoot your idea down, I think it would be interesting, but I think that it would be a tough study to conduct. It seems that there would be too many mediating variables which would make it difficult to amount any statistical significance or draw any accurate conclusions from the results. Furthermore, the national divorce rate is around 50% anyway, so it might not yield any substantial answers. I’ve always been a fan of utilizing both qualitative and quantitative data to try and gain a more holistic understanding of any research question, so maybe pairing the numbers with interviews of people would give us something worthwhile. Again, if someone can pull it off I think it would be interesting.
But I do appreciate your comment about recognizing privilege. I have my pain stories, but so does everyone else!
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 3:47 pm ¶
TierList E wrote:
@Jenn
Lol, you just knocked out like 72% percent of my mom’s side of the family with that generalization on non-light blacks. In my experience there’s a good range in the shading. If you averaged everyone out it would be a decent brown yes but you wouldn’t have to search for a ‘fair’ black person. Well, I don’t. I’d bet they’re more common than natural blondes in caucasians.
Posted 10 Jul 2008 at 8:17 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
Damn Sewere!! Just when a topic was already complicated!
Many of you have brought up some good points.
I’ve been hit on my West African men, but I they have also highlighted AfAms shortcomings (sometimes by the one that’s hitting on me). I could understand that AfAm women may have a privilege over West African (Nigerian in this case) women. But considering that we are American women (and we know what the world thinks of us), I figured THAT would offset any privilege.
I also believe that the dearth (yes it exists) if AfAm men forces some women too look for “other blacks”.
and YES, sexism and the ownership of women/culture thing plays into African women’s dating choices.
I also agree that there is an element of exoticism that some whites seek in African women.
Posted 11 Jul 2008 at 9:40 am ¶
Phil Deeze wrote:
Great post. Great discussion.
Posted 11 Jul 2008 at 7:10 pm ¶
Mona Lisa wrote:
I went to high school with mostly Black and Nigerian Americans…before high school I thought of myself as African American ,but a Nigerian dude, (who liked/likes me) informed me that he was an African American and I was a Black American. He also let me know that black girls were cool to date but not to marry, I was offended and told him so, fast fwd 5 years we are still friends and he’s a little smarter.
As a result of my high school/college experiences I still have a lot of Nigerian/African friends, the females ones have def made comments about my light skin color/long hair being a factor in attracting men of all races esp African men. My light skin /long hair has not been an advantage for finding a quality man, men who cite those factors as primary reasons for being attracted to me freak me out.
Colorism is alive, one thing that has always confused me is darker women confronting lighter women about the preferences of men, I am sorry he likes me maybe he has internalized some ideology that lighter is better, there is nothing I can do about that, I don’t want a man who thinks like that ,and neither should you… After telling a Nigerian dude that I was not interested in him (because he was a weirdo) he assumed it was because I thought he was dark and said “yeah I have to admit that we (Nigerians) are ugly (dark=ugly???) people, some of us look good but for the most part…” WHO TALKS LIKE THAT? anyone who doesn’t love themselves can not love you.
I know Nigerian/African women of all shades who have dated black men and vice versa, I feel like any adult can eventually tell when they are being dated based on some kind of twisted preference versus genuine attraction. When it comes to marriage I agree with what the other commentators said about gender and culture being bigger factors in these interracial pairings then Black American female privilege.
Posted 13 Jul 2008 at 2:24 am ¶
onyinye wrote:
yea so many have the WRONG views of african women…..so many think were all dark and look a certain way, everyday i have to tell people im African, aka Nigerian and they make those stupid jokes like Oh you must have white in your family…….or some stupid nonsense…….its quite annoying….i actually stumbled on this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fWfi_YkZKMU
and its great because no theirs so many light Nigerians and dark ones……..we are not MIXED you idiots and im tired of defending myself……people say hey i thought you were american well to all those that dont ask first go to the Nigeriaa and go all the way to Port Harcourt or Igbo area and then tell me if we all look the same
Posted 22 Jul 2008 at 3:31 pm ¶
onyinye wrote:
actually a lot of people dont understand AKATA an OYIGBO………it means black and white I dont say it but I know so many Nigerians do actually Africans it does not mean ” n…” its like NEGREO in spanish means black and BLANCO means white……AKATA and OYIGBO is the same thing.
Posted 22 Jul 2008 at 3:34 pm ¶
onyinye wrote:
TO VANES I THINK EVERY FAMILY IS DIFFERENT MY FAMILY IS NIGERIAN ALSO FROM RIVERS STATE
AND THEY ARE MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHO THE MEN MARRY AND NOT THE WOMEN…..THE WOMEN CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT BECAUSE USUALLY PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY ARE CLOSER TO THE WIFE’S FAMILY MY FAMILY DOESN’T CARE WHAT WE MARRY BUT MY BROTHER HES THE ONLY BOY IN THE HOUSE IF HE MARRIES A BAD WIFE THAT WOULD RUIN IT SO THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT HIM…….I DONT KNOW MY FAMILY ISN’T TYPICAL I GUESS THEY DONT REALLY TALK BAD ABOUT ANY RACE MY DAD DOESN’T CARE MY MOM JUST JUDGES PEOPLE ON IF THEIR CUTE OR NOT BUT AGAIN NOT ALL FAMILIES ARE THE SAME I DO KNOW THAT 3 WOMEN ON MY DADS SIDE MARRIED GERMANS AND THAT WAS LIKE WAHALA BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN NIGERIA SO EVERYONE WONDERED HOW 3 OF THEM DID THAT BUT THEN MY FATHER SAID IF IT WAS IN AMERICA ITS DIFFERNT THEIR SO MANY DIFFERENT RACES IT CAN HAPPEN BUT MY MOM SAID NO WHITE MEN ARE LIKE ANY MEN AND IN NIGERIA IF THEY WANT TO ASK SOMEONE OUT THEY WILL LOL
Posted 22 Jul 2008 at 3:39 pm ¶
Gorgeous Black Women wrote:
For Nigerian men who came to America as adults, I can buy that it is sometimes self-hatred on their part. I have a very large family. All the women are married to Nigerians, most within my ethnic group. A lot of the men who came in the 80s are/were married to white or African-American women. My hairdresser was married to one and from the insults to the culture to which their 2 kids belong that was totally unintentional, I’m going to assume that their marriage didn’t go so well.
Several are married to light skinned African-American women, all supposedly great prizes. Only one is happily married now (not necessarily due to ethnic issues) and he’s the one who married someone who was bad on paper by our standards: had a kid, very rough around the edges and still to this day parties like a Freshman in college who is under the false impression that alcohol is about to go out of style. She treats him well and he treats her well. Both their mothers, both widowed, live in the house.
Also, African-American women are easier to bed and far easier to pull your crap on than the un-assimilated Nigerian and Nigerian Americans. If my brother pulls some crapon his girlfriend, the whole damn world would know about it and possibly, a meeting would be called to set him straight. He pulled some horrible ish on his African-American girlfriends because he could. Result? He gets cussed out or a drink thrown in his face. Oh well.
It’s a way to marry a black woman but one with “decent hair.” Ah, see that hierarchy forming?
The rest are divorced or should be. Some of these men who actively bashed their culture with their spouses are now 50-something and they seem completely shocked that their spouses have little regard for Nigerians. Gee. Wonder why.
I am pretty certain that I won’t marry a Nigerian and after seeing who’s interested in me, I probably won’t marry a black guy. I’m an African woman (though I’m told “you don’t look African” which is supposed to be a compliment much like “you’re different from other black people.”). I don’t have “good hair” and my hair is not relaxed. My devotion to my hair is miniscule compared to many black women. That low maintenance thing seems to only attract white men and the occasional Persian.
Mod Note - This almost didn’t get approved. Watch the generalizations like “Also, African-American women are easier to bed and far easier to pull your crap on than the un-assimilated Nigerian and Nigerian Americans.” However, it is interesting to see how stereotypes are applied in different circles, so I will let this one go. - LDP
Posted 24 Jul 2008 at 4:12 pm ¶
Gorgeous Black Women wrote:
I apologize. That is a stereotype and I should have made it clear that it is a stereotype. That was intended to be a stereotype comparable to the one about white women being easier to bed. What I meant to get across was that the same stereotypes that are often applied to white women by some to explain interracial dating are also applied to
I do think that it is easier for the guys to pull of crap on women outside of that culture because there’s simply a different dynamic and people are well aware of it. There are more people involved in the relationship and more people one must answer to.
Posted 26 Jul 2008 at 6:26 am ¶
Ada wrote:
Vanes and Kepler are on the right track. Colorism it is not; my dad told me that in his village (both my parents are Nigerian) that if a woman was dark, people would say she needed to marry a lighter skinned person and vice versa to even out color, which I took to mean that there was an ideal color, but it was not necessarily light as with blacks in the US. Nigerians have bad stereotypes about Black-Americans, some even going so far as to call them “akatas”, a slur which means “nonsense people (plural)”. Prejudice against marrying outside the ethnic group just has to do with the fact that a lot of the culture has been lost and the elders are trying to preserve it. Also some are just flat out racist; my mom doesn’t have an affinity for Asians as well as Blacks and has made cringe-worthy remarks to others about their choice of boyfriend/girlfriend.
I know plenty of 2nd generation Nigerian-Americans who will not date other Naijas because too much family is involved; the communities are so small that we all know one another too well. As a female minority w/in a minority, I will date whoever! But I probably won’t want to meet a Nigerian guy’s crazy Nigerian mother.
Posted 31 Jul 2008 at 1:35 am ¶
Kelechi wrote:
I’m a Nigerian woman and I think you couldn’t find another country in this world with a greater concentration of good-looking and attractive men than you can in America. (Not in Africa, not in Canada, not Mexico, maybe in Italy) I have lived here for 11 years and I married an American man.
Ladies, why do you think so many women around the world want them? I think something is wrong with any woman who cannot find one man good enough for her no matter whether she’s Indian, African, Asian, or American. Case closed.
Posted 01 Aug 2008 at 2:38 pm ¶
ken wrote:
some of the most famous african american women have certain european features but most don’t.
Posted 03 Aug 2008 at 10:40 pm ¶
ken wrote:
one correction too,narrow noses is not just a european feature.this feature existed in africa before any white existed.thin lips is is not a european feature either.it is more common in whites but there are some blacks with this feature.this feature existed in afric too before thier were whites.straight hair could be found in certain blacks of southasia too.
Posted 03 Aug 2008 at 11:11 pm ¶
AL wrote:
My wifes dad is from cameroon and her mother is jamaican, i am a black american man and she was teased a little in jamaica going to school they called her a” jafrican” she is very darkskinned and has quote very african features and i love her soo much, her fathers tribe is, bantu and we have a biological son together and we have adopted two young ladies one from haiti and one from liberia and we may adopt another child probably from west africa in the future, and to all of the black people on here fighting and calling each other derogatory names, reach out and help somebody less fortunate then your self, PEACE!
Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 1:35 pm ¶
Brice wrote:
I think people tend not to recognize that hierarchy and “privilege” as they are not as aware of it. naturally,we understand the issues within our own local American context better.
I noticed it in my experience abroad in Southern Africa and Ghana. More so in Ghana this past summer, being older(SA was 2yrs ago) and more insightful perhaps.
I knew there was a certain foreigner appeal I think travelrs can have anywhere, just for being different, intriguing, exotic.
But I wondered was I getting certain attention because of how I look and the fact that Im American. I didn’t consider it a priviledge(as good as it feel to have attention from the ladies), it was upsetting. I was upset that I may be viewed by some people as better, because of internalized views of inferiority(my accociation with whiteness), or assumptions of my American wealth. Id like to be seen as just a Black man like the local Black men.
it was painful to see that slightly different but still familiar Ghanaian brand of self-hate and image/identity crisis(bleaching creams, excessive weaves, wigs and perms[and aversion twds natural hair] being an extension of this)
So some are aware of these issues and I will definitely keep them in mind if I date an African woman (especially a 1st gen or one still on the continent).
Interesting topic, I think the racial/ethic/cultural heirarchies between Africans and African Americans are as worthy of confrontations as the color complexes/racial hierarchies between AAs and between AAs and white Americans.
Posted 10 Sep 2008 at 3:39 pm ¶