They think have the right to go wherever they like

When you look from outside at your own white people and their actions you can’t help but feeling alienated. This is something nobody can do for a white. And perhaps this is an unconscious knowledge whites have - because if this happens you don’t have this feeling of belonging anymore. You realize as a white that this white world [that] is meant to be ‘your place’ isn’t your place. And what follows is a sometimes quite painful journey. You leave the comfort zone of ‘whiteness’ because surrounded by whites only no longer makes you feel comfortable and being ‘exposed’ to whites can then become quite stressful.Difficult to explain what I mean, I guess, but I hope that some can follow my thoughts.–jw (an especially insightful reader of “stuff white people do”)

by guest contributor Macon D, originally published at stuff white people do

About ten years ago, I was lucky enough to visit Indonesia with three travel companions. We visited several of the islands and did the usual Lonely Planet things (yes, I did have a copy of Lonely Planet’s Indonesia), seeking out places to sleep and eat on our own, looking for authentic cultural practices, and avoiding the (white) crowds.

We congratulated ourselves on being different from “tourists,” those people on package tours that kept them safe and clean from the more “seedy” and contaminating features of a crowded, relatively impoverished country. But now I realize that in some ways, I was worse than those tourists, and that the habits of being that I’d acquired from my life-long training into whiteness contributed to that effect.

I wasn’t a “tourist” doing a “tour” of Indonesia. I was a “traveler.” Maybe even an “adventurer.” My companions and I sought out sights and experiences that were “off the beaten path” (the clichéd nature of that phrase alone should have tipped us off to how much our supposed independence was in itself a kind of conformity). We hired guides with cars to take us to weird little villages and deserted beaches, quiet restaurants and cheap inns—places that Indonesians themselves actually used, or so we thought. And when we bought souvenirs, we tried to find authentic Indonesian stuff, not the cheap t-shirts and masks and pots and feathered things that were clearly made for those other “tourists.”

Before Indonesia, I’d been to other places in the world on similar terms, and I’d also worked as an English teacher in other countries. I think that overall, my extended encounters with other people, and thus with their very different perspectives and practices, gave me some different ways of looking at America, especially its peculiar racial obsessions. Maybe because I’m a rather introspective person, I also began thinking as well about my place in the world as a “white man.”

That mode of introspection was accelerated in Indonesia. Something about myself as a “traveler” hit me there, and that trip actually killed my itch to “travel.” It made me wonder just what the hell I was really doing when I ventured outside “my space,” and why I thought I had the right to do it.

Some experiences in Indonesia made me a bit of a stranger to myself. I suddenly wondered, for one thing, if I was really so different from those pampered hordes of American and Australian and British and German tourists. Having thought more since then about my status as an American, and especially as a “white” American, I now see that having been trained into whiteness made me feel especially entitled to go wherever I liked, and to do pretty much whatever I pleased when I got there, as long I was willing to pay for it. And pay for it I could, because the places I went to were cheap, man, a real bargain!

I think the thing that hit me came from the extreme poverty that I encountered while poking around on one of Indonesia’s less “touristy” islands. I’d never seen such poor, hungry people as some of that island’s inhabitants. One especially disturbing encounter came after we’d hired a car to take us to a quiet beach, where I had an incident with a couple of strangers that echoed all too closely another racially charged encounter, that famous one Camus created in the bewildering sunlight of an Algerian beach.

Our driver, who spoke enough English to work with us (or rather, for us), had given me a business card that some Australians had made for him—the card identified him as “Johnny Asshole.”

As we grabbed our towels and set out across the hot, white sand, “Johnny” (who insisted on being called that) told us again not to go more than a hundred meters down the beach in either direction.

“Not safe!” he said again, refusing to answer my question about just what the danger was.

As Johnny waited for us under the shade of a tree, we splashed around in the water for awhile, happy to have this beautiful spot to ourselves. It was a warm, totally sunny day, and the water was a shimmering bluish green that I’d never seen before. When we climbed out and spread our towels for some deeper sun worship, I saw that Johnny had fallen asleep. I looked up and down the beach, which seemed to curve for a quarter mile or so in both directions around a bay, and then I decided to take a walk.

I strolled along the water line, marveling at how fine and soft the sugary sand was, and how quickly my footprints disappeared in the gently lapping waves. I was so transfixed by these sensations, and by the beauty of the place and of the whole day, that I hadn’t noticed a little boy standing in front of me until I almost walked right into him.

He looked to be seven or eight years old, and he wore nothing but a pair of ragged shorts. I gathered that he didn’t speak the one language I spoke when I said “hi there,” and he didn’t respond. He had a split coconut in his hand, with what looked to be a straw sticking out of it. The straw had been fashioned from some sort of plant, and he held the coconut out to me. I didn’t have any money, though, which is what I was guessing he wanted, so I shrugged, waved my hand, and said, “No thank you.”

Then I saw another boy, coming at us quickly from the tree line that was forty or fifty feet away. This was an older boy, and instead of a coconut, he was carrying a machete. Like the younger boy, he wasn’t smiling, and when he reached us, he stepped between me and the other boy. He planted his feet in a broad stance and crossed his arms, with one of his hands clenching the machete at a defensive angle. His face was set in what looked to me like an unfriendly frown.

I wasn’t sure what this was all about, but I thought it best to back away and return to where I’d been told to stay. Looking over my shoulder, I saw the two boys returning to the woods. The older one swung the machete loosely as he walked with an arm over the other boy’s shoulders. He was talking to him in what looked like a serious, admonishing way.

In her essay “White World-Traveling,” white American philosopher Shannon Sullivan writes about people like me—white people, that is, who feel entitled to go pretty much anywhere they like. She also writes about the resistance of non-white people (in her case, Latina and African American) to the efforts of well-intentioned white anti-racists to enter ongoing, intraracial dialogues on solutions for racial injustice.

Those non-white dialogues tend to include words, phrases, and coded understandings that outsiders don’t know about. The trouble here with white interlopers, Sullivan writes, is that in addition to obstinately insisting that they see no good reason to resist the inclusion of white voices in such dialogues, they also tend to expect that this “unfamiliar” material be translated for them. Not only does this slow down the dialogue—it can also change it. Translation for the sake of white anti-racists can also reveal modes of resistance to whiteness that non-white people don’t necessarily want to open up to white people, however well-intentioned they may be.

Sullivan has also written elsewhere about the general common white tendency at work here, which she calls a white habit of “ontological expansiveness”:

As ontologically expansive, white people consider all spaces as rightfully available for their habitation of them. A white person’s choice to change her environment in order to challenge her unconscious habits of white privilege can be just another instance of ontological expansiveness. This problem leads to the question of whether white people can attempt to change their unconscious habits and simultaneously live space in antiracist ways. While the danger of ontological expansiveness cannot be entirely eliminated, the answer to this question can be “yes.”


As I walked back from my encounter on the beach with those two boys, I did realize that I’d probably intruded on their space. Perhaps that stretch of beach and the coconut trees behind it belonged to their family. One of them might have meant to welcome me with a refreshing drink, or maybe he did want money. The other seemed to see me as a threat, which confused me—me, a threat? How could that be? I certainly meant no harm, and I saw no reason for anyone to want me to stay away. Was there something criminal going on behind those trees, something they thought I would alert the authorities about?

In other words, what that moment did for me was it shook me, in a way that I eventually realized was about ME—about who I was, and what I thought I was doing on that foreign beach, and in that foreign country. I also began thinking about what my real relations were with the people who inhabited this island, and just how they did and didn’t welcome tourists. Despite the higher regard I had for myself as a “traveler” rather than a “tourist,” it could well be that Indonesians in general were more welcoming of the restrained, contained package tourist than the Lonely Planet white guy like me, who felt entitled to enter their private spaces, and to turn their private lives into mere, exotic curiosities.

I felt even more upset about all this the next day, when my little group hired a canoe to take us across a lake. The owner of our lakefront hotel, who seemed to be the brother of the owner of the canoe, had told us about a village over there that laid out its dead above ground for a month or two before burying them. It was actually an illegal, and therefore secret tradition, he said, but he could arrange for us to see it.

We gladly took this opportunity to see something different, and didn’t mind paying what seemed like a pittance to get there. It took about twenty minutes for the canoe’s owner to row us across the lake, and as we approached the village’s creaky wooden pier, an elderly man was there to greet us. He clasped each of us by the hands with both of his own, and then led us to the bodies. And there they were, seven or eight desiccated corpses with dried flowers draped all over them. The village elder refused our thoroughly stupid request to take photographs. The four of us gawked, shivered a bit, and then headed back to the canoe.

By this time, many of the inhabitants of the village, which seemed to consist of about fifty houses, had come out to watch us. They all looked extremely thin to me. “Emaciated,” I thought, “that’s the right word.” Some had their hands out, and as we stepped onto the pier, about ten elderly people lined up along the shore. As our canoe slowly pulled away, these people walked into the lake fully clothed, with outstretched hands. They were sort of smiling at us. Few of them had any teeth left. I realized why the owner of the canoe was pulling away very slowly—it gave us more time to thrust money into these people’s hands.

I pulled out my wad of confusing Indonesian bills, reminded myself which were the smaller ones, and put some into several hands. By this time, the water was almost up to the necks of those who’d been able to venture out that far. As our canoe turned around to head away, they held their money up over their heads to keep it dry as they made their way back to shore. It didn’t look like all of them actually knew how to swim.

I hadn’t enjoyed the visit at all, but I didn’t know what was bothering me. It wasn’t the ghastly sight of dead bodies. I’d seen dead people before.

Maybe it was my own dead body. A sort of figurative “white” body. That of a white man who’d been trained to think that it’s okay to intrude on such private spaces, simply to satisfy his curiosity, his privilege-induced desire just to see something he’d never seen before. A white man who had been trained away from feeling any real empathy for such people, and for seeing them as a spectacle instead. And a white man who had also been trained away from understanding, by way of such a stark contrast, anything at all about the connections between their apparently desperate poverty and his own, relatively enormous wealth.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Off-topic question « spacedcowgirl on 25 Jun 2008 at 7:55 pm

    […] white Americans for “authentic,” “off-the-beaten path” travel as raised in this Racialicious post (which is very thought-provoking and well worth reading–I personally am so insular as to […]

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Comments

  1. mariamaria3 wrote:

    Great post. This really articulates some of the thoughts I have had when visiting foreign countries. I too, have often thought of myself as something other than, something better than, a “tourist.” Although framed in terms of the author’s experiences as a white man, this story resonates with me, a black woman. I think as much as we try and deny it, American racial minorities with the disposable income to travel (even on a shoe-string budget) assume “white privilege” when travelling abroad…particularly in relatively impoverished nations. We are ready and willing to pay more, to assert our privilege, our supposed “open-mindedness” which is often a product of higher education (itself a privilege) in order to have a more “authentic” experience and enhance our sense of moral superiority relative to the average tourist.

  2. perkinqq wrote:

    Hello Macon D,

    I very much enjoyed your introspective analysis of your recent trip to Indonesia!

    One question that came to my mind as I finished reading the article is the possible conflation with race and nationality. I wonder how Macon Ds actions are symptomic of whiteness rather than typical “Americanism.” Isn’t entitlement a very mainstream American value?

    And where do you draw the line between exoticization and curious exploration? When do seemingly simple curiosities become pathological?

    There might not be simple answers to these questions, but I would love to hear your thoughts.

  3. S wrote:

    Great, honest piece…Alex Garlands of the world should read this. (For younger readers, he’s the guy who wrote The Beach, an execrable interpretation of the “young white traveler saga,” later made into a forgettable movie starring Leonardo di Caprio.)

  4. Ejunco wrote:

    True, Look what happened to Natalee Holloway and this other white chick who only got some news air play disappeared about 5months ago in the Carribean.

  5. Treacle wrote:

    I really enjoyed this.

    As someone who is looking to travel outside of America for this time, this gave me a much-needed alternative perspective.

  6. F wrote:

    This really moved me. But I don’t know - I have mixed feelings as to whether people who truly want to see how others live, what other cultures are like, are doing so with a kind of arrogance.. perhaps yes, but overall, is it a bad thing entirely, if it leads to more understanding in the end? Or is it bad if it’s done in an exploitative way only, as if the traveller treats people consciously like curiosities?

  7. DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!! wrote:

    Sounds like a bad case of “white guilt.”

  8. atlasien wrote:

    I’ve written before about the interesting (and false) dichotomy between “traveling” and “tourism” here.

    I think we tend to really, really overthink these issues around the traveler perspective instead of the local perspective. I’ve worked in the tourist industry before, so I’ve seen the “local” side as well. Locals don’t care if the traveler is having a set of existential crises. They/we have a set of needs they want them/us to fill. Sometimes that need is just to be left alone, other times it’s much more complicated.

  9. Abu Sinan wrote:

    I think you, and others, confuse race (white) with economics (from rich/well off origins).

    I am a white dude and I have traveled all over the world. I guess I have seen a lot of what you talk about, but not just from whites.

    It is something that people with money do. It isnt the skin colour that they think gives them this entitlement, it is the money.

    It just so happens that the countries with the most expendable wealth often also tend to be of European background.

    I have been in places like Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt and Lebanon and seen non whites acting like this. Often it is oil rich Guld citizens who feel that their money gives them access, and the rights, to do anything they want.

    Egypt actually passed a law banning foreign men from coming to Egypt and marrying Egyptian women if the men are more than 25 years older than the Egyptian women.

    This law pretty much targeted those rich Gulf Arabs who head to places like Egypt, Morroco and Yemen to “buy” young virgin girls from their families. Of course these families are dirt poor and often the father will sell their daughters to help feed the family.

    The law itself was passed because many of these young Egyptian girls were then used, abused and thrown away when they got back to the Gulf and had no legal rights.

    Southeast Asia is a sex stomping ground for not just Europeans, but it has become a sex tourist vacation for rich Saudis, it has become a right of passage in some Saudi families.

    This isnt a white thing, it is a money thing. You need to take a look at what happens when other people, not white, get the disposable cash to travel. When they do they end up just like “the whites”.

    The new thing is rich Gulf Arabs traveling to Europe (the whites) and tracking in white European women, or coming to their countries and running roughsod over the citizens.

    A lot of people with money just feel like they have the right to take advantage of people who dont have money.

    As you see more and more countries around the world coming into more disposable wealth you’ll see more and more non whites doing this sort of stuff.

    It is sad, but it isnt racial. I think the history of colonialism plays into it some, but I doubt that means much to the dirt poor Moroccan girl sold to a guy from Riyadh because his country found oil 50 years ago.

  10. Sumayyah wrote:

    Excellent article! This should be placed in those travel books as sort of a “cautionary” tale. I’ve always wanted to see “real” culture, but not at the expense of the people. Very well written.

  11. macon d wrote:

    perkinqq wrote:

    One question that came to my mind as I finished reading the article is the possible conflation with race and nationality. I wonder how Macon Ds actions are symptomic of whiteness rather than typical “Americanism.” Isn’t entitlement a very mainstream American value?

    It sure is, and an especially mainstream “white” American value at that (as I’ve explained several times on my blog, which is about American “whiteness,” the training of people into it, and so on). In many ways, the American mainstream IS presumptively “white,” the whole fantasized realm of “foreign travel” especially so. Take a look at “travel” commercials or magazines–you’ll see, almost exclusively, white travelers surrounded by non-white “locals” and servants. The opposite is almost never depicted.

    And where do you draw the line between exoticization and curious exploration? When do seemingly simple curiosities become pathological?

    Now that’s a much tougher question. I think curious exploration is a great thing, but it becomes “pathological” when privileged citizens-of-empire feel “naturally” entitled to poke their noses in anywhere and everywhere they like, blind to the fact that their presence is sometimes intrusive.

    And when they feel somehow superior to ordinary “tourists” while doing so.

    And when they have unquestioningly absorbed that part of their training as citizens-of-empire that blinds them to the real, material relations between themselves and the people they’re objectifying and exoticizing with their supposedly benign curiosity.

  12. Tiffany wrote:

    Great article

  13. quakerjew wrote:

    Thanks for getting this out there! My favorite image is the older boy
    “he stepped between me and the other boy. He planted his feet in a broad stance and crossed his arms, with one of his hands clenching the machete at a defensive angle. His face was set in what looked to me like an unfriendly frown.”
    Can’t get that kid outta my head since I first read about him on your site, several days ago.
    The will to act, in the moment.

    Your reader’s comment about alienation is interesting to me, and my ruminations on self-imposed outcasting.
    thanks.

  14. dave wrote:

    A few others beat me to it, (deaf feminist punk & abu), but what tends to bother me about this piece in particular (and to be honest Macon, your site as a whole, which I’ve traveled to a few times) is yes, the conflation of whiteness with economic privilege.

    The analysis of tourism is superb, the reflexivity pretty acute, but part of unpacking this sort of feeling, both while traveling and looking at anti-racist dialogues/ontologies is learning to distinguish between different kinds of difference.

    @mariamaria3, you sum part of this up really well too, but you actually DEFINE that economic difference as you assuming white privilege. not all forms of oppression and power can be boiled down to one essence, so economic difference cannot be transformed into “assuming” any definitive qualities of “whiteness.”

    case in point, the “white trash” dialogues and rwandan tutsi/hutu/twa conflicts. discrimination and economic difference between the tutsis and hutus does not create “white privilege.” it creates something else, similar to, worth comparing, but not equivalent. if we make things too equivalent it furthers the intentions of those who like to “pimp out” their minority as having a greater plight than others.

    not trying to be preachy, on pick on people, just pick apart ideas. i welcome the same in return.

  15. sylvie wrote:

    i think it took balls to write this piece. very few white travelers (or more broadly American travelers) recognize that sense of false entitlement that they can make any locale their personal stomping ground. i also like that it touched on exoticizing what’s “off the beaten path.” i once had a white friend who said her dream honeymoon would be to go to the third world, that’d it be soooo cool to hang out with the impoverished peeps in Calcutta. thankfully, we are no longer friends.

  16. Yazikus wrote:

    This article came at an interesting time for me.
    Over the last year or so I have been wondering about traveling.
    I grew up traveling all over the world. Sometimes in the nice hotel and air conditioned bus, sometimes on the everyday train.
    But now, it just doesn’t seem like a sustainable thing to do.
    It’s like eating oranges in Alaska in January. Do we really need them?
    So I came up with some rules in my head, traveling is permissible if
    1) You are visiting a friend or family member.
    2)You plan to move their and make real and sustainable contributions to the community.
    But basically I can’t see it being a good thing otherwise.
    I am pretty torn about it. It would be sad never to see all those places, but why should I be able to? Should I be satisfied reading about them and wondering? I am thinking yes.

  17. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Macon seems to have a real issue telling the difference between race, class and socio economic status.

    He writes:

    “the whole fantasized realm of “foreign travel” especially so”

    He is completely attacking white America when he should realise that only a small portion of white America could hope to go on such trips as he talks about.

    This is all about money, those who have it often think it entitles them to do whatever they want. For Macon it would seem he is guilty about having the ability to travel as he has.

    It would seem a wealth issue transposed with a guilt of being white. Get over it. If you are guilty of having the wealth to travel you can give up your money. About being white……..not much you can do about that.

    I am not guilt because I have traveled so much, far from it I want my children to have the same opportunity I have. Traveling, if you allow it to, can open your mind and hearts to different peoples and different cultures.

    It doesnt have to be about exploitation, but certainly sometimes it is.

    But hey, as I live in Washington DC, one of the most visited places on earth, I guess I have to make sure I am exploited tonight by the millions of non white tourist coming here to exploit my culture.

    Of course that couldnt happen……..only white people travel abroad and take advantage of locals and local society right?

    I guess I should have told that to the half dozen Chinese guys who were at a hotel I was in a few months ago in the hallways wearing only underwear scaring the kids there for a school trip.

    It was amazing the way they imposed their social and cultural norms on those scared little kids from Indiana.

    Do yourself a favour, head to Beirut, hit one of the clubs and wait for closing time for all of those rich non white Saudi, Kuwait and Bahraini men waiting to pick up and exploit the local girls. If they cannot get one of those they’ll head outside looking for the white prostitutes brought from Eastern Europe, often by sex trafficking rings.

    Yep, white prostitutes brought in by local non white criminal organisations because the local men have a fetish for white skin and blond hair.

    It is about colour, but you’ve identified the wrong colour. It isnt white……….it is GREEN!

  18. macon d wrote:

    Abu Sinan and others,

    To say that whiteness makes one feel especially entitled to go anywhere and everywhere is not to say that money doesn’t sometimes do that too. Nor masculinity, for that matter.

  19. Persia wrote:

    Locals don’t care if the traveler is having a set of existential crises. They/we have a set of needs they want them/us to fill. Sometimes that need is just to be left alone, other times it’s much more complicated.

    That’s a good point. And there’s a lot of ambivalance about tourists in a tourist-based economy– even a relatively privileged culture like my home state (Vermont) has some real mixed feelings about tourists. A popular bumper sticker in the 80’s and early 90’s was “Welcome to Vermont, Now Go Home.”

    To say that whiteness makes one feel especially entitled to go anywhere and everywhere is not to say that money doesn’t sometimes do that too. Nor masculinity, for that matter.

    Yep. There’s a whole set of privileges going on, and they can intersect and overlap.

  20. Sarah wrote:

    @Yazikus

    Its fair enough to place travel restrictions on yourself, but are you really comparing eating an orange with seeing the world?

    Reading about a place or seeing a movie about it is never going to compare to being there yourself. I generally agree with the sentiments that some (wealthy more than white) people think they have the right to go anywhere they like. But there are ways to be a respectful tourist/traveler also.

  21. queerhapa wrote:

    Re: the “Is it white privilege, or is it class privilege, or is it 1st world privilege?” comments above, I think an intersectional analysis would be really useful here. It’s all of the above. White male American travelers with money have an “intersectional” standpoint too.

  22. queerhapa wrote:

    Whoops, Persia beat me to it!

  23. jvansteppes wrote:

    I think it’s worth pointing out here that Macon is also speaking about a specific subclass of white travelers, the ‘I’m conscious and I’m here to connect with the people’ group who hold themselves above others. Obviously class plays into it but his target audience is probably white middle class people who want to be anti-racist but never question the way their sense of entitlement is at play in their ‘let’s build a school in Nicaragua’ mentalities…

  24. Elizabeth Ann wrote:

    Abu Sinan brings up an important point about class vs. race. It clarifies for me why as I was finishing the article, I was reminded of a movie that spoke more to me about economic classes than about race. “Oliver’s Story” (1978) happens to be a sequel, but more to the point, it’s about a white lawyer who has to look at his attempts to escape his upper-class status by working with the poor, and living like they do. The movie ends (spoiler alert) with him attending his father’s funeral and overhearing co-workers of his father saying thatwith him gone, no one will oppose them opening more sweatshops in poor countries. When he hears this, he decides to give up his resistance to taking over the company.

    What I got out of the film, is if you have the privilege of being born into a status with power, take on the responsibility that comes with having that power.

    “Nothing can be unconditional: consequently nothing can be free.
    Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.”
    ~George Bernard Shaw

  25. shah8 wrote:

    kyriarchy!

  26. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Macon,

    You really need to learn to become more confortable with who you are. You are not “guilty of being white”. You are only guilty for what you have done and what you do. Get over it.

    I dont see what “whiteness” entitles anyone to do anything abroad. I have seen non white Americans from Morocco to Poland acting like the typical “ugly American”.

    It would be much more accurate to say it is a problem with American culture and those monied classes around the world than to try to blame anything on “whiteness”.

    I get a bit sick of white people who fall over themselves to blame the entire world’s ills on themselves. Take responsiblity for what YOU do and what happens around you. You cannot change anything that happened 100 years ago, but you sure can do something about what is going on now.

    Basically I see such screeds as nothing more than poor esteem by those who want to be accepted.

    What you have talked about could go for any group anywhere when they have enough money. We could talk about the non white Saudis and how they feel they feel entitled to exploit the Middle East and Asia.

    I am married to a Saudi woman and we have two young boys. I find your racism in attributing things to an entire group of people based on race as disturbing as I do any other racism. Do my children only have to take up half the guilt of whiteness?

    Get over your own self hatred, it will help you see things a bit more clearly. Reverse racism against yourself will not make people like you.

  27. Logan wrote:

    I think, it kinda depends on the mindset of the person going overseas, what they bring out of it. I’ve done a little traveling, mostly in Taiwan, and I’ve experienced those who go over just because something’s cool. I’ve also seen a lot of the local culture, from Taipei 101 to the Night Markets in Taichung, where you can see the poverty of people who are hoping to make enough money to survive. I think, as long as you’re able to have an open mind, and kinda know when you begin to encroach on the culture (ie: the beach or the burial), there isn’t a real problem.

  28. johnjihoonchang wrote:

    @Yazikus - What about adding 3) You are going to a location for business purposes?

  29. Yazikus wrote:

    @ Sara-
    Those rules as I mentioned were just thoughts in my head for me only, trying to figure out how it could all work, and how to be a respectful traveler as you mentioned.
    And yes, my point about sustainability stands. An orange may not be like seeing the world, but it is certainly a luxury we have grown to accept, like being able to travel.
    Again, not trying to impose my thoughts on everyone, just looking for feedback and discussion =)
    @- Abu Sinan, have you read the Ugly American?
    Because he was the good guy.
    Also, you keep saying “get over it”. We cannot get over it until the problems are solved, and they are ongoing.

  30. Yazikus wrote:

    @- johnjihoonchang-
    Maybe if it could be assured that the business was not exploiting the local culture/people?

  31. macon d wrote:

    Abu Sinan, I don’t hate myself. In fact, I just wrote a post a couple of days ago that answers pretty much everything you’re saying about me and my whiteness–it’s here. Again, I don’t hate myself, but I do hate some of the predispositions instilled in me by my social positionings, and whiteness is the particular one that I’ve especially chosen to focus on. As others have pointed out here, it obviously operates on me and through me in conjunction with the effects of other ways that I’m socially positioned.

  32. Jaye wrote:

    I really enjoy raveling and I can’t imagine stopping. I like not going to the regular tourist spots, and I prefer to find my own way through a country. It’s a lot more interesting and I think you learn a lot more. But I think I differ from Macon because I wasn’t a spectacle-hunter, I wasn’t looking for the new, the exotic, the different. I just liked to go my own way because you could meet regular people going about their lives. I liked finding out things about other cultures, and I thought that when you went to those resorts you only meet other Westerners, and saw a very superficial view of the city or country. But I have almost never hired a guide to take me to some out-of-the-way or “secret” place, I don’t even get the appeal of that. I’ve only ever hired a guide to take me through some typical tourist spots, so I can get a better understanding of the landmarks or temples or monuments. I think that travel, decent wages, access to resources, should be something that’s afforded to everyone, and that the solution isn’t to limit those of us who have those freedoms.

    I do things a little bit different though than I used to, when I first started traveling. I don’t bargain, unless I’m dealing with a store that’s obviously doing well. But at a market, on the street, I pay the first price they ask. I don’t haggle with little kids over the price of fruit or clothing. If I want a piece of art, I pay the full price. They do tend to think I’m an easy mark after that, and start trying to sell me everything they have, but I’m clear on what I want, I pay the asking price, and I move on. Because no matter how much they ask, I would probably be paying at least 2-3 times, maybe 20 or 30 times or even more, back home. I’m already paying practically nothing for hotels, travel expenses, restaurants, etc. A lot of people say that they shouldn’t pay more because that’s the going rate for that country, but if it is, then why do the people seem like they’re barely above poverty-level? I mean, I don’t think it’s going to solve the world crisis, but I just hate the idea of pennypinching and calculating over how much to pay someone selling sarongs on the beach, when I would easily and without thinking, pay 10 times that back at home.

  33. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    *Pre-existing bias is still in effect.*

    Some thoughts -

    @Abu - Stop telling Macon to get over it. Consider this a mod warning. We explore identity here, and that will occasionally include white identity. Macon has the full right to explore his whiteness.

    In addition, I will remind you that this is a PoC run site that primarily features PoC (particularly, WoC) voices. If I put a white perspective on this site, it is because I saw good anti-racist value in it. Just like Wendi’s guide to brown traveling a while back, Macon’s piece explores the role of travel and identity.

    @Yazikus -

    Over the last year or so I have been wondering about traveling. I grew up traveling all over the world. Sometimes in the nice hotel and air conditioned bus, sometimes on the everyday train. But now, it just doesn’t seem like a sustainable thing to do.

    Jet setting may not be environmentally sustainable, no. But what about economically so? I agree that we as privileged travelers of any hue should be more mindful of how they interact with locals, but a lot of places depend on our tourism dollars. While I am uncomfortable with the idea of people intruding on the private lives of the poor, I am also concerned that if we do not bring our money to certain areas, the places would be worse off and people would not be able to earn a living or supplement their income. I think travel is one of the few ways the US distributes wealth, and while this certainly isn’t an ideal situation, I am a bit concerned about the loss of revenue to people who need it.

    For those who have traveled much farther than I, what are your thoughts on this?

    @atlasien - Cosign.

    @Queerhapa - I agree that the intersection of class, race, and gender privilege are important to explore in this situation. However, I think there is a sense of entitlement that comes inherently to whiteness. Macon’s description of the confusion he felt why he may not be welcomed somewhere is similar to how a few white people I know have reacted when I didn’t invite them to certain PoC focused spaces. Bewilderment, and occasionally anger, a lot of wondering what they personally did to anyone, sometimes an impassioned diatribe about how horrible it is to exclude people from things - but not as much an acknowledgment of a safe space set up, or why it may not be appropriate for a white person to go to black family reunion, even if it looks fun. So there is that as well.

    And as I’ve said before, I am a little wary of people trying to insert class privilege over race privilege. (Not directed at you QH, but some other comments in this thread.) Yes, money provides privilege.

    But so does whiteness.

  34. miss girl wrote:

    “It’s like eating oranges in Alaska in January. Do we really need them?”

    Huh? I mean, I get it, it’s your own personal philosophy, but it’s like asking if we really need movies. Because we don’t. But we do. I’d feel terrible if I couldn’t watch great films anymore, or least of all travel the world, simply because they’re not “practical” activities.

  35. Josh wrote:

    You know, I agree that there are issues with travel, including with “off-the-beaten-path” type travel. But I think it’s a rather enormous leap - and an unduly moralistic one - to extrapolate from those issues that it’s never a acceptable to travel unless you meet a very small set of criteria.

    Yes, travel can be problematic, fraught with privilege, and harmful. But I don’t see why it has to be if the person doing the travel respects the place, the culture, and the people they’re traveling amongst - and if that respect is reflected in actual practice. To stop all such travel except among people who already have family or other obvious connections to the destination will only further ignorance, misunderstanding, and cultural arrogance - especially in a country like the United States, which is large and, for many people, very insular despite the prevalence of immigration.

    And yes, there are sustainability issues with travel. There are sustainability issues with everything we do in modern society, from driving to eating to eating up electric power by reading blogs to, you know, farting. Doesn’t mean we should get rid of them altogether.

  36. Fatemeh wrote:

    This is a really great post. The idea of “white people consider all spaces as rightfully available for their habitation of them” really strikes a note.
    I think the idea of “assumed privilege” in people of color who travel to cultures outside their own is a reality, also. I also don’t think this is just a U.S. thing: I see similar behavior from those in higher socioeconomic classes in other industrialized nations (Gulf countries, for example).
    Great points also about socioeconomic class and gender: very true.

  37. Yazikus wrote:

    @ Latoya-
    I think it was mentioned in the article, perhaps if we do go touristing, should we then stick to the designated tourist spots?
    That way we could pay into the tourism industry instead of trying to bargain our way by?
    Hmm.

  38. Abu Sinan wrote:

    LaToya,

    I get where you are coming from. I guess I dont understand the anti-racist value of someone having a self esteem issue with the very basis of who they are.

    You cannot erase where you come from, you cannot change who your parents were and where they came from. “White guilt” serves no purpose.

    I am white and I am exploring his views on our race. Isnt that what it is supposed to be about? You cannot explore an issue if you only cover one side of it.

    I was just voicing frustration with the viewpoint of some that the only way to be constructive is through guilt. I didnt mean to offend.

    Anyway, history is full of travel narratives that document the travels of foreigners from one place to another. What would our history and our understanding of it be without these narratives? Think Ibn Battuta!

    To me it is clear that travel has a great role in understanding between peoples. What is the alternative?

    Think about past times where people on almost any level did not travel at all. This made it all too easy to demonise “the other”. We know where this leads.

    Travel, as LaToya points out, is a good way in which the money of those socio-economic classes of all races is redistributed to other places. For as much as some would complain about the affect of tourism on cultures, many places around the globe would suffer greatly if not for the tourism and the trade it brings.

    I have been to dozens and dozens of countries over the past few decades. I never looked at it as a way to lord my money over others or try to spread my culture.

    I am one of those types that when I live abroad tend to become “more local than the locals”. What is the use of living and traveling abroad if you are not going to partake in local society?

    Fatemah is spot on, this at it’s heart, is a class issue, not a race issue. If we stopped everyone of us white people traveling today it would still be an issue that needed to be discussed.

  39. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Jaye,

    You write:

    ” But at a market, on the street, I pay the first price they ask.”

    In some places this would be seen as an insult. It is one thing to want to help people and another thing to step on local customs in that attempt.

    Trying to help must be mixed with a healthy mix of knowledge about the place you are at. Learning as much as you can about a place before you visit can keep you from making such mistakes.

  40. queerhapa wrote:

    @ Latoya: Totally agree. By bringing up intersectionality, I was trying to (perhaps too subtly) remind people that the author’s class and citizenship privileges don’t nullify his white privilege (or, as you put it, entitlement) as a traveler. They reinforce it.

    And wow, Abu Sinan–I’m a bit shocked you are throwing around terms like “reverse racism” on this site!

  41. miss girl wrote:

    Just an aside note: I never really thought about the word ‘tour’ - as in “I went on three tours of duty in Iraq”, so says the husband. How problematic is that kind of wording?

  42. Jann wrote:

    Abu, I think you make a good point. Class is the major factor defining the experience of the author in the article above. My husband is Indonesian and I have observed very similar “exotification” and cultural superiority issues expressed by affluent Indonesians toward their more traditional rural neighbors. Although both the affluent Indonesians and the American tourist experience this class issue, each filters it through their own cultural identity. The American my have a sense of colonialism, while the Indonesian maybe more conscious of subtle ethnic differences that are lost on the American traveler.

  43. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Abu -

    “White guilt” serves no purpose.

    I agree. But like I said, I don’t see that in this piece of Macon’s. There are a lot of people who would tell the people who participated in Kelvin’s thread on “Racializing Music” that they should just get over it, and not talk about these kinds of experiences. Or that multiracial people should just get over their experiences and identify as X. Exploring the why of a certain mind set qualifies.

    I find this turn of phrase interesting:

    I am one of those types that when I live abroad tend to become “more local than the locals”.

    Not to pick on you, but isn’t that also a bit of white privilege? One of my friends is spending time trying to convince me to travel with her to S. Korea for a while; I’ve often wanted to live abroad in Japan and study hip-hop there. But, one thing I know is that no matter how much I fit in with the culture, no matter how well I can grasp the language, no matter what I eat or what I do, I’ll never be more local than the locals. My skin color and build will see to that. I have no hope of fitting in - I just have to be myself. The people I know who want to be more Japanese than a Japanese tend to be white - overly concerned with being 110% authentic, oblivious to the fact that you can’t change who you are and your own authentic self has a lot to contribute to the world.

    Or, did you just mean that as an expression and not as a travel mantra?

    @Yazikus -

    See, here’s the thing. What if having that “off the beaten path” experience motivates you to dedicate your resources to helping to prevent disease or provide someone clean water, or to build a school? What if it provides you the opportunity to show those of us in privileged parts of the world how other people actually live? (Like the authors of Hungry Planet?)

    Or what if the mindless, fifteen minute conversation you have with a seven year old kid selling you Chiclets sparks in that child an interest and lifetime love of language and travel?

    Or what if you strike up a conversation with some of the locals and find that while you want to live in South Africa, they want to come to America? So you push your bosses for a company exchange program?

    There is a lot to be said for interacting with the world at large. But I do think there is a difference between using an exotic locale as the backdrop for your own self-involvement and traveling while being considerate of the wants, needs, and desires of the other people you met on your journey - and being open to meeting other people.

  44. Yazikus wrote:

    @ Latoya-
    Excellent points, I find myself wondering similar things. Again, this is an issue that consumes a lot of my thought.
    I guess this is a hard topic for me because I love to travel. I have spent more than half of my life living in countries other than America.
    They used to give us these seminars, and talked about kids like us being “Third Culture Kids”. We didn’t relate to our home country’s culture because we didn’t have much experience with it, we definitely weren’t of the culture where we lived, and we didn’t really have a “home base” to go back to.
    I feel far more at ease in certain other countries than I do here in America where I was born. I find myself to be socially awkward and oblivious to certain American customs. That doesn’t mean I am not American though.. Its tricky.
    Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and bringing up this great topic.

  45. atlasien wrote:

    “The people I know who want to be more Japanese than a Japanese tend to be white - overly concerned with being 110% authentic, oblivious to the fact that you can’t change who you are and your own authentic self has a lot to contribute to the world.”

    Right on…! It’s that looming Japanophile example that colors a lot of related cases for me. If someone wants authenticity soooo badly that they start telling the locals they’re doing it all wrong, that’s some serious imperialist mentality. That really irritates me. It’s so common, too. You see it in statements like “those people are ruined by tourism, they’re not interesting anymore”.

    I think the experience of becoming a local in a different culture is possible, it’s just that it takes really serious emotional commitment and a willingness to give up as much as you gain. And that commitment is usually lacking in people from very rich countries like America. Even if we move to a different country, we’ll generally live and die as expatriates, not immigrants.

  46. Grandpa Dinosaur wrote:

    MACRON D, I LOVE YOU! <=unproffesional

  47. Slush wrote:

    “I think travel is one of the few ways the US distributes wealth, and while this certainly isn’t an ideal situation, I am a bit concerned about the loss of revenue to people who need it.”

    [By which I’m guessing you meant ‘re-distributes wealth that we took from them earlier.’]

    I hear you on this idea but I don’t think I believe it. It’s hard to know, but I think that the tourist industry gets built up because it is relatively easy money, but like many weak economies that are built on just one industry, is very precarious.

    The theory that American tourists do good for the world by buying things smells very suspicious to me, like it was made up by people who want to make themselves feel better about their colonial past without undoing any of it, and on top of that, reinforces the mantra of consumer capitalism to the far reaches of the planet, because nothing solves a problem so nicely as just getting people to buy and consume more!

    Of course I don’t know how to assess the whole of it very well, (and I’m not implying those are your reasons, Latoya, just that they might be lurking behind the origins of that idea), and I think that it’s probably a very mixed bag of benefits and drawbacks, not a simple good or bad.

    But I am wary of swallowing this idea that consumer capitalism is the way to create equity in the world, as opposed to, you know, imposing corporate accountability and enforcing human rights standards and things like that.

  48. Jann wrote:

    I think running parallel to the concept that class entitles someone to “go wherever they like” is the concept that poverty firmly revokes that right. Travel and immigration are the luxury of the privileged and wealthy. This is due to more than the obvious restrictions of having no money, it is something reinforced by society. For example, while the wealthy American can caper around Indonesia and my affluent Indonesian friends can plan their yearly trips to New York, my Indonesian brother in-law has been unable to obtain a travel visa to the US - even to come to his brother’s wedding. He has been rejected numerous times by the US gov because his low income and young age supposedly flag him as high risk for not returning to Indonesia. Or think of the outrage over “unskilled migrant labor” these days. Just something to toss into the discussion.

  49. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Slush -

    I hear you on this idea but I don’t think I believe it. It’s hard to know, but I think that the tourist industry gets built up because it is relatively easy money, but like many weak economies that are built on just one industry, is very precarious.

    Yes, it is. It is not an ideal situation as I mention, I believe we’ve had a few discussions here on the roles of the World Bank, IMF, and WTO in jacking up developing nations in the name of progress. So that dynamic is misunderstood.

    And yes, tourism mainly benefits the governments and not necessarily people.

    But in our current system - because it doesn’t look like we will be switching economic policy anytime soon - I think we do more harm than good by withholding tourist dollars. Rightly or wrongly, there are entire economies that depend on us to spend money. And while I have serious issues with a system based on consumption (and consumption only, apparently) this is what we currently have set up. If we pull back on our world travel out of concern for our own feelings of colonization, we may well be taking food out of someone else’s mouth. (Especially if the WTO/WB/IMF is still exerting authority on what nations can and cannot do in terms of crop growth and textile focus.)

    But I am wary of swallowing this idea that consumer capitalism is the way to create equity in the world, as opposed to, you know, imposing corporate accountability and enforcing human rights standards and things like that.

    The problem with this part is that people actually have to give a fuck. Corporate accountability is cool, but only as long as a person is inclined to think along those lines, economically boycott companies that violate those practices and hold our elected leaders responsible for corporate oversight.

    Most people will only exercise a small fraction of their consumer power, and principles are often seen as dispensable - nice to have, but only if it is convenient.

    I do not shop at Wal-Mart and I have never purchased an item of clothing at Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister. But those places aren’t starving without my business as there are many people who don’t know and don’t care about the issues behind the goods they purchase - they just want the goods.

    So if I opt-out of a system and I do not have a critical mass of people opting out with me, what am I accomplishing? Is it better to try to help understanding how the system is designed to benefit? Or is it better to opt-out entirely while things churn along as they have been?

    So you’re right, there is no simple good or bad - it’s complicated. Just like everything else.

  50. wendi muse wrote:

    i agree that it’s not just a white thing. i see a ton of american tourists who take advantage of their position as americans…and they come in all colors. i know i always bring up brazil as an example, and for that, i apologize, but i can’t help but think about the black american men who go there for sex tourism…that’s an absolute exploitation of a brazilian resource…it’s own people. it’s a troubling practice, but i think BECaUSe they are black, it bothers me even more. it’s like a group of people oppressed in one group, going to another country and using their economic, national, and gender privilege to oppress others (read: poor brazilian women)

  51. Slush wrote:

    Well, I don’t think deciding not to travel is the right outcome, for sure. I think the value of intercultural exchange definitely outweighs some of the complexities of the economics and racial and class privileges in the process. And a lot of the things you learn from traveling you just can’t learn from reading about.

    I guess what irks me is that a lot of people will make that argument about economics without taking responsibility for their privileged status in the global economy, like they’re doing it out of altruism, not some kind of responsibility or attempt to create more equity in the world. It’s not that I disagree with your argument, because for better or worse you are absolutely right those economies do exist and it seems better to sustain them than build them and drop them. It’s just that it ties in so neatly to so many other assertions of American arrogance, imperialism, and privilege, like everything we do for the rest of the world is a favor to them.

    “Most people will only exercise a small fraction of their consumer power, and principles are often seen as dispensable - nice to have, but only if it is convenient.”

    Yeah. So true. This is so depressing to me.

  52. A. wrote:

    What makes things even sadder is that in some of these countries, most of the beachfront property is taken by a bunch of white Americans, who are only there half of the time, if even that much. As if the locals there didn’t want it for themselves.

    Meanwhile, the locals are relegated to working as servants.

  53. dave wrote:

    …good thoughts in here.

    worth saying to abu that analysing our own attitudes towards whiteness, and doing something about it, is one of the strongest responses to racism that a white man can have, as far as i can tell. a lot of anti-oppression work posits that, by virtue of the position of power (middle-class, straight) white (men) folks exist in, they might be in the best place to dismantle that power if they chose to do so. that doesn’t GIVE the power away, it just makes sure you don’t get in the way when it trickles down.

  54. Whitney wrote:

    I kind of take offense to this article because I am white and I love to travel and desire to go basically everywhere in the world.

    I would never in my life do what the person in this article did. If there was any indication in his first experience with the two boys that he was not “welcome” I would think he would have enough common sense to not view the sacred tradition that he did. I think there are some things that foreigners of any kind shouldn’t understand or see. Some things are sacred to people, no matter what their culture is, race, class, country they live in, etc. I think all people need to respect that. When I plan on traveling, I know that it’s respectful to stick to the “touristy” places.

    I take offense to this because I don’t think that white people feel privileged and feel like they can go anywhere they want… maybe it’s more like rich people.

    I just think that we can learn about different cultures in a way that is not offensive to the “locals” of the community and country, in a way that does not make them feel as if we as outsiders are treading on them and their traditions. I think some things are best left unexperienced.

    I think a good (fictional) example is from LOST, where Matthew Fox’s character (Jack) is in Phuket. He meets a local woman there and has a relationship with her, and her job is a “tattoo artist.” She does not tattoo outsiders, as it is a tradition and custom of her people, and she says that her gift is to see peoples’ true selves. Jack forces her to tattoo him what she sees. The outcome is something like “He walks among us but is not one of us.” The next day, his friends from the community beat him up and almost kill him because he tread on one of their sacred traditions and he forced her to do it. Basically, he got what he deserved. I think he exemplifies this privilege that foreigners feel.

    That being said, I think we should all be careful to be respectful when we travel, especially when it is to a country with different cultural traditions than us.

  55. TierList E wrote:

    I would just like to be another voice in the ‘intersectionality’ response. This entitlement can be easy fueled and affected by a number of things, including economic status/upbringing, race, nationality, ethnicity, etc, etc. It’s not simply a ‘this or this’ situation.

    And I’m weary of the seeming equivalency of white privalege with white guilt. Not the same thing and it never should be (causes lots of problems). I know I have privaleges with being straight, not poor, and Christian, and I wish to know how that works so I can fix it, but I’m not ‘guilty’ of any of those things, want to apologize for it, or blame ‘reverse prejudices’ or the like.

    Don’t use the fear of guilt to (inadvertantly?) shut down discussion and exploration of thought.

  56. TierList E wrote:

    Lol at my spelling. “privilege” to all. And everything else I missed.

  57. NancyP wrote:

    I don’t see “consciousness of white psychological entitlement” as “white guilt”. To paraphrase Nisi Shawl, science fiction writer and critic, there are invaders, tourists, and guests encountering unfamiliar cultures. You can avoid being the worst invader. Most people will remain tourists. It’s hard to become a guest. It all boils down to realizing that there are human beings (or aliens, in sci-fi) on the other side of the exchange, that they may not think as you do or have similar customs, and that they do have feelings and a right to be recognized.

    It seems obvious that one should be very careful about anything having to do with death and burial customs - we Westerners have our various protocols for polite, considerate behavior, and the Indonesians have their protocols. Respect them. Duh! If it is considered a mark of respect for strangers to visit / pray / leave flower offering / whatever, then I’d say it’s ok although not obligatory to go. If it’s a family thing, stay away!

    Entitlement can be white, first world, wealth, male, etc. I don’t doubt that rich Saudis can be boors and worse outside their country, that men of all races go on sex tours to take advantage of cheap, rapeable women (and men and pubescent girls and boys), that wealthy Asians occasionally express racist thoughts on their tours of Harlem, etc.

    I would have more guilt concerning the economic disparities. One person isn’t going to be able to provide enough money to feed a city of beggars. But I would hope to feel a little humility and shame in enjoying a feast when others are starving.

  58. jd wrote:

    “The other seemed to see me as a threat, which confused me—me, a threat? How could that be? I certainly meant no harm, and I saw no reason for anyone to want me to stay away. Was there something criminal going on behind those trees, something they thought I would alert the authorities about?”

    Or he might have worried that you were a sex tourist pedophile. There’s a very ugly underside to international travel that you may not be aware of, but which locals don’t always have the luxury of ignoring.

  59. NancyP wrote:

    One other thing to append to my long post.

    Orientalism. Avoid it. Don’t demand that every person and place fit some predetermined vision of “exoticism”. It’s not exotic to people in the host country, although it may be about two generations behind the times.

  60. waxghost wrote:

    Interesting article. I’m still not sure if I understand what this has to do with being white, though I’m not sure if that’s the truth or my own pale privilege talking.

    Isn’t the instance with the boys on the beach an example of actually being respectful? As soon as you realized that the beach was actually safe but you weren’t wanted there, you turned and left. Or am I missing something?

    Also, I’m curious if there are ways to continue traveling but not impose oneself. Personally, I hate traveling anywhere where I don’t already know at least one person (thank you, Internet). It gives me a place to stay but, more importantly I feel, gives me a “guide” who knows the area, knows ME, and will show me where I can and can’t go and what I can and can’t do. I make a concerted effort to get to know people first, and then they can choose what they would like to share with me (if anything). Would this solve the problem of imposing oneself or is there still an element of privilege going on that I’m not seeing?

  61. marge twain wrote:

    I’m an American brown person who has travelled extensively and can relate to all of Macon’s feelings in my attempts to be an ethical “traveler not a tourist” as Rick Steves puts it, constantly seeking authenticity.
    Just like on his site, Macon confuses class privilege and first-world privilege with whiteness. I have a lot more in common with white tourists than native Indians in India. That doesn’t make me an honorary white person, it just makes me a first-worlder.

    A lot of the “stuff white people like” is stuff I can well relate to but poor whites surely will not. Whiteness does not=everything privileged, even if it does sometimes intersect.

  62. Jaye wrote:

    I have a really good quote from Andrew Woolford that tackles the issue of guilt. Sorry for the length, but I found it very relevant:

    “The desire to distance ourselves from feeling guilty likely results from guilt being a taboo emotion in our society. It is perceived as wholly negative, as a weakness, and as resulting from a personal fault for which we deserve punishment. This fear of guilt can have the unfortunate consequence of preventing us from feeling responsibility: if we are responsible, then it is assumed that we must be guilty. And so we deprive ourselves of a sense of guilt that is positive and proactive. SUCH GUILT…WOULD BE “METAPHYSICAL” IN THAT IT WOULD REFLECT AN EXPERIENCE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHICH WE HAVE NOT DIRECTLY CAUSED YET HAVE PARTICIPATED IN AS WITNESSES AND SURVIVORS. Through metaphysical guilt we are led to a feeling of solidarity with those who are suffering, and we desire to act with the hope of relieving their suffering. How we act is a more difficult question since attending to social problems requires that we rely on an institution of some sort to act morally on our behalf…

    …when faced with the suffering of those around us, instead of feeling a sense of moral responsibility…we tend to isolate the sufferer regionally and to see ourselves as separate from him or her…By making this separation we sever our potential solidarity…They become unrecognizable, and it is difficult to feel deep human emotion on their behalf because their suffering appears to be irrational…The stigmatizing discourses that produce and reproduce the distance…are countered by discourses that provide other representations and that try to prevent people from settling on convenient, simplistic understandings of a social problem.”

  63. Jaye wrote:

    Abu Sinan - I know that some places expect you to bargain, but I’m not talking about well-fed, well-to-do storeowners who happen to sell their products in an open market. I was in Jamaica once, and the guy offered me a lower price, and I said it was fine, I could pay the full price…but from the look on his face I realized he actually felt insulted by my “generosity”.

    So you definitely have to be careful, but I have also seen others bargaining with children on the side of the road for the equivalent of 25cents, and their reasoning is that it’s the difference in currency or standards of living so it’s ok to pay so little…

    But you’re right, you have to be sure you’re not inadvertently insulting someone.

  64. marge twain wrote:

    @Macon: When you claim things as the provenance of your race that also belong to others, it’s a form of cultural imperialism.

    I cross my arms at Bright Eyes concerts, buy overpriced sandwiches, and attempt to witness local culture when I travel. You can’t take that from me.

    “In many ways, the American mainstream IS presumptively “white,” the whole fantasized realm of “foreign travel” especially so. Take a look at “travel” commercials or magazines–you’ll see, almost exclusively, white travelers surrounded by non-white “locals” and servants. The opposite is almost never depicted.”

    You aren’t just reflecting this, you’re using your blog to cement it.

  65. macon d wrote:

    waxghost: Isn’t the instance with the boys on the beach an example of actually being respectful? As soon as you realized that the beach was actually safe but you weren’t wanted there, you turned and left. Or am I missing something?

    The point was that I felt free to wander, even after being told not to–that wasn’t respectful. That rather willful wandering almost symbolizes the kind of “white world-traveling” that Shannon Sullivan is talking about.

    marge twain: Just like on his site, Macon confuses class privilege and first-world privilege with whiteness. I have a lot more in common with white tourists than native Indians in India. That doesn’t make me an honorary white person, it just makes me a first-worlder.

    But in India, as in most other places, I as a white American am in a way “more American” than you are, thanks to media representations, and to the broader context of white supremacy. As Toni Morrison once put it, “American means white.” You’re right that we both have class privilege, but that doesn’t cancel out the differing significance of our racial classifications.

    A lot of the “stuff white people like” is stuff I can well relate to but poor whites surely will not. Whiteness does not=everything privileged, even if it does sometimes intersect.

    Perhaps you’re confusing my blog, stuff white people do, with another, famous one?

    Jaye, thanks for that quotation, it’s wonderful, very much in line with what I was getting at. The thinking I’ve been doing about “empathy” also has an echo there. I think being trained as a white American has discouraged the fuller development of my capacity for empathy in the face of non-white misery. (And yes, for those who insist on intersectionality, that would be another socially induced disposition that is also instilled in members of other social categories.)

  66. Britta wrote:

    Interesting post. There are lots of parallels between traveling and anthropology (my future career, hopefully), in terms of a growing awareness (”self-reflexivity”) of the role the anthropologist herself plays, and an attempt to unpack/dismantle “westerner studies the savage” paradigm the discipline was founded on. Macon D, your story reminds me of story we read about an anthropologist in the 30s or 40s, who was told that a certain ceremony was off limits, and if he saw it it would mean death. In the name of “research,” he disregarded the warnings, snuck in, was found and killed. My prof said, the moral of the story was, respect the boundaries of the culture you’re studying.

    In terms of traveling, at least for me, I draw the line at paying money to see people perform their culture. I think “off the path” experiences are valuable if you are able to actually connect with people and engage in cross cultural communication, but once people stop freely offering it to you, the dynamic changes to where you have power, and people are obligated to “perform” for you, even if it’s humiliating or violates their sense of privacy or dignity.

    One other interesting thing, I lived in China for a year and a half, and I often found myself becoming a tourist attraction for domestic Chinese tourists. Literally, hundreds of people have pictures of me in their photo albums, and walking around tourist attractions, I felt like I was being followed by paparazzi. I have also had similar experiences at home, where Japanese tourists have photographed me as “one of the natives.” I guess because of this, I’m a bit less self conscious about the whole travelling is necessarily exoticizing the other narrative, because for me it’s always seemed like a two way street.

  67. merq wrote:

    Abu Sinan wrote:

    I think you, and others, confuse race (white) with economics (from rich/well off origins)…

    I have been in places like Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt and Lebanon and seen non whites acting like this. Often it is oil rich Guld citizens who feel that their money gives them access, and the rights, to do anything they want.

    Abu Sinan,

    I’m afraid not. I’m from a pretty wealthy family, and began traveling as much as school (and now work) permitted from a very young age. But no matter where I go, I was always cautious about encroaching on other people’s space — very much the opposite of what Macon D so eloquently described.

    For you see, I’m black. Even here in NYC, where I have lived for almost a decade, I still have to scold myself for exhibiting the irrational caution only felt by one who feels basic rights are an ephemeral non-reality in his present surroundings. I’m 6′7″, and over 200lbs and I very seldom fear a physical threat not related to weapons (and in a post-Giuliani Manhattan, such a thing is most likely to affect me at the hands of the police).

    Perhaps it’s the fact that I’m also not an American, but rather Nigerian. However, while I don’t consider myself American, I proudly identify as a New-Yorker. So I have to wonder why it is that I am never at ease even in this city that I feel so represents me .

    Long-winded post, no doubt. But my point was to illustrate that the standard “don’t talk about race when you can discuss class” approach doesn’t successfully apply in my case. The fact is that white travelers aren’t reminded of their “place” wherever they go.

  68. Donna wrote:

    We had a good discussion about this at my place last year. It got started by a thread at Pandagon where the privilege was just screaming out of the webpage.
    http://the-silence-of-our-friends.blogspot.com/200er 7/04/more-sofia-coppola-feminism.html

    Unfortunately kactus deleted her blog so her tour of Milwaukee is no longer available in full, but at the bottom, there is a link from Progressive Gold where Republic of Palau has an extensive quote from it, and she also has the Pandagon post linked there.

    The comments are even better than my post and Kai even linked to Atlasien’s excellent post there.

  69. Donna wrote:

    Hmmm that link doesn’t seem to be clickable. Let me try it again…

    Post about travel at The Silence of Our Friends

  70. Joseph wrote:

    @NancyP
    “Orientalism. Avoid it. Don’t demand that every person and place fit some predetermined vision of “exoticism”. It’s not exotic to people in the host country, although it may be about two generations behind the times.”

    Yeah, well one way you could avoid it is not posit that Near/Middle Eastern countries are “two generations behind the times.” Whose times exactly are those poor un-exotic savages “behind”?

    I applaud the sentiment–Orientalism is often completely overlooked in discussions about “race” but NancyP, please…try not to reinforce it even as you are saying it’s wrong.

    We are all in modernity together, at the same time. Some modernity looks like New York and some looks like Ramallah, but it all happening at the same time. The “Third World” is not running on a special Bronze Age calendar.

    Not trying to bust up the flow of this excellent thread–just had to jump in with that.

  71. Aquarianbrass wrote:

    Maybe the real conceit is thinking that you have this sense of entitlement that these so-called “third worlder” lack.
    You don’t think immigrants have a sense of entitlement.
    Money or lack of it, doesn’t necessarily determine how priveledge you feel.

  72. luckyfatima wrote:

    this was an amazing post…i think there IS an undeniable facet of the parcel of white American privilege in the thinking and behavior you describe, despite the fact that yes, if you think about it, Americans of color, elites from developing nations, and monied people of color in developed nations besides the US can engage in this sort of thing. But I think the psychology described here in the post is indeed a very white American way of being nonetheless.

    Thanks for sharing it Macon D

  73. kiki wrote:

    I am a well traveled American who is currently living abroad with my family. I live in a neighborhood, my kids attend the local school and we have become immersed in this culture. We have been welcomed into homes, invited to share celebrations and generally made to feel part of the community. But we are not locals and will never be. That does not belong to us. And part of that acceptance process involved our having to take responsibility for what America has done in our name and an acknowledgment that we have contributed mightily to this world being so fucked up. When you are outside of the US the various subtexts and meta-conversations that define so much of our discourse fall away and instead you are viewed as an American and you must own up to the privilege that affords all of us regardless of race, etc. At home I admit I had the latitude to partake in the fantasy that I was not really responsible for the war, that it was the work of white men or Republican neo-cons or a president I believe was not legally elected! But outside the US that don’t fly and it’s been a humbling experience.

    And so I personally think that more Americans need to travel…not less. I recently read that only 25% of Americans even have a passport and that out of those the average person may only take one or two international trips in a lifetime. Americans are woefully ignorant of both geography and history and live in an insular world where they mix with very few others unlike themselves. The vast majority are monolingual. A dangerous mix considering the power we wield and a dead end considering the global changes afoot. Maybe if more Americans saw first hand the poverty our overconsumption creates, or had to personally answer criticism about our policies, or took the time to actually meet and get to know people in other places we would be less willing to turn a blind eye to the suffering, less likely to drop a bomb on someone’s town and just maybe more able to see the other as fully human. Tourism is an imperfect method for this, I know, but what is the alternative? Stay holed up at home and have the world filtered and sanitized for your passive consumption? Even the most pampered tourist has at least the possibility of something more substantial and transformative…history is filled with such tales.

  74. Torontonian wrote:

    Most Americans may not have passports because they may not be able to afford to travel. Europeans can usually travel to other countries by land short distances, but Americans usually have to travel by plane.

  75. penni brown wrote:

    The commentor that suggested that this is more about economics than race is very on point. While the relatively ‘wealthy’ traveler/tourist will feel entitled to experience whatever he can pay for. The reason he’s allowed to get away with it in most cases is the money. The residents of that country have the right to say, ‘No. You’re money can’t buy this.’ But, we all know that doesn’t happen often, for many reasons. I’m sure we all can think of one of the, if not THE most prolific example of this complex bought and sold dynamic.

  76. Abu Sinan wrote:

    LaToya,

    I was using a phrase when I mentioned being “more local than the locals” but I was trying to make a point as well.

    When I traveled and lived abroad I did what I could to fit in with the local culture, get involved in local events and immerse myself in the area. Some areas this was easier than others. I have spent a lot of time in Ireland in the last twenty years although I am not Irish. Because of my time in the area I was able to witness and actually be a victim (although to a much lesser extent than the people around me) of the British treatment of Catholic Irish in the north of Ireland. This caused me from an early age to get involved in the civil rights movement in Ireland and become active in Irish Republican circles. This activism, in a round about way, is what lead me to Islam.

    When I traveled and lived in places I did my best to learn the customs and languages of the area. I speak German, Arabic, functioning Spanish, French, Irish, Italian, Basque and a few other languages because of this.

    So when I mean “more local than the locals” it is more about getting involved in what is going on around you rather than expecting for people to cater to you.

    As to that being a part of white privilege, I’d beg to differ. In my travels I saw South Americans, African Americans, Africans and Asians all doing the same exact thing as I was.

    Merq,

    I have seen people of colour traveling and living abroad acting in a way in which some here are describing as “white”. My best example of this, amoungst dozens I could give, is the African American lady in England in front of me in line who was arguing with the English lady because the English lady had the effrontery NOT to accept US dollars. Imagine that, not accepting US dollars in Britain. I guess I could talk about the Kenyan fellow and his wife I saw almost physically abuse someone in Galway. The “uneducated, dirty Irishman” wasnt quick enough to meet the couples needs. I could write a book about the way Middle Easterners with money treat and mistreat foreigners at home and abroad, my personal stories with this are legion.

    This behavior is NOT a race related issue, it is a socio-economic issue and no amount of “white guilt” will change that. The whole race thing actually tends to overshadow the REAL issue. That is too bad because it is something that needs to be dealt with.

  77. macon d wrote:

    This behavior is NOT a race related issue, it is a socio-economic issue and no amount of “white guilt” will change that. The whole race thing actually tends to overshadow the REAL issue. That is too bad because it is something that needs to be dealt with.

    I see this kind of dismissive comment a lot on my blog (which deals specifically with racial whiteness) along with the other sort of comment that’s coming up a lot here, the acknowledgment that while whiteness is or may be a factor influencing the particular mode of behavior at hand, I should be writing instead about how many other factors are at play as well.

    However, while social class, masculinity, first-world status, and other factors influence the disposition of travelers and tourists, race is also a factor, and I believe that foregrounding that factor can help to explain just how being trained as a white American can ALSO predispose people in certain ways. In terms of “travel,” that means that white Americans are more strongly inclined toward thinking that they have a right to go wherever they like than those raised and trained into other racial identities. The white consternation over occasional non-white gatherings that exclude white people is another among many examples of the “ontological expansiveness” that Sullivan so insightfully describes–it’s a habit of being that white folks should wake up to.

    If my blog were instead focused on, say, gender or social class, and if I had written a post about such an incident in those terms, I would anticipate similar complaints or denials from some readers, claiming that race or some other factor is the most significant factor instead.

    It seems clear to me that my classifications in several terms (race, class, gender, nationality, and more) each influenced these moments in Indonesia. Because I have since woken up to some of those categorical influences on myself, I wouldn’t think and act anymore in such moments in the ways that I did back then.

    I find “whiteness” the most difficult influence on myself to see and understand, so that’s the one I’ve been foregrounding in my writings. For me, writing is a concentrated form of thinking, and writing about whiteness, especially my own, has been a way of thinking through, and thus to some extent escaping, the ways that fictional classification has “made” me who I am. Or hopefully, to some degree, who I was.

    Finally, Abu, I suggest that you read comment #62 by Jaye more closely. You seem to dismiss “white guilt” as automatically a bad thing. (Also, perhaps ironically, you seem to have as much trouble seeing “whiteness” as most white people do.) If being trained to act white means acting at times in some ways that are objectionable, and if one becomes aware of that and doesn’t change those ways, then isn’t one “guilty” of being, at least, irresponsible and lazy?

    Oh, and Jaye, if you’re still reading this thread, what is the source of Woolford’s wonderful quotation?

  78. Juan wrote:

    I’m with people on pointing out intersectionality.

    But, I call bullshit on it people pushing aside race and advocating economics. Within the U.S. you still have white people who think they can go wherever they like within a local setting–’cultural tourists’ who often lost their damn mind and don’t think they have in home training. And even when they still have their minds intact they’re still skeezy and insulting.

    Places like at a pow wow, not just the advertised to the public, touring black churches or even gallivanting about majority person of colour areas–no not just your average person coming there for whatever but actively looking at us with much the same a tourist views the local colour when on traveling among other things. Sometimes the white people out-of-towners and other times they’re the locales within the city or state and they inhabit various parts of the economic ladder.

    More class than race my ass. Intersectionality matters.

  79. waxghost wrote:

    I am trying to understand how wandering is white privilege but I still don’t get it. Perhaps it’s because the only places I’ve ever wandered were already white-dominated (Canada, Sweden, Finland, and various American cities… (Why aren’t we talking about travel to other cities within America as well? Is it really vastly different?)) but I keep coming back to: “But that’s what you DO when you travel, isn’t it?”

    But I’m also thinking in particular of a very close friend of mine who is half Swedish and half Malay. He was the reason I went to Sweden and we spent many hours wandering Stockholm aimlessly together. Yet I can imagine that his experience doing it was quite different than mine since he has dark skin, dark eyes, dark hair, while I was constantly being mistaken for a native Swede. He never said anything to me about any discomfort, but that could easily have been because he either felt like it was so normal that I would already know or didn’t think I would understand.

    I think it would be really helpful to have a sort of parallel narrative from a person of color, Macon. As you say, it is often very hard to see whiteness when you are white, but being able to compare it to the experience of a person of color would highlight (for me, at least) what is so different. Merq’s post cleared up a lot for me, in fact. Maybe I’ll have to direct my friend here and see if he has any input himself.

  80. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    WaxGhost -

    You can start with Wendi’s Brown and Out of Town: The POC Traveler’s Guide to Racism

  81. waxghost wrote:

    Latoya, thank you. I should have known there would be something like that here and looked for it myself. Going to go read it now….

  82. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Macon,

    If “whiteness” is the issue how do you explain the EXACT same behavior, or worse, from people of colour? The ONLY thing these people have in common is the fact that they are traveling and the fact that they form part of the international wealthy class. If this was something that was exhibited solely by white people I’d agree with you, but it most certainly is not. I have traveled the whole world and seen these sorts of behaviors from every racial and ethnic group you could imagine to name. Again, one thing united them all and it most certainly was not race, it was money.

    I am just sitting here shaking my head. I spent a majority of my life outside of America, so the “trained to be a white American” label just doesn’t stick to me very well. I know what I have seen when I have traveled. I have seen very nasty behavior and sense of entitlement from people from all backgrounds, all shapes, sizes and colours. Again, the only thing that united these people was money. If I had to do a scale Americans, white and non white, would NOT be at the top of the list of ethnicities and citizens who act the worst and have the most patronising attitudes. They would be in the top five, but at least two of the other top five would be citizens from countries where the people are decidedly non white.

    When one realises this is makes the whole “blame it on whiteness” excuse just not work in this case. I have no problem talking about white entitlement and privilege when it is merited and where it plays a role. This just happens to NOT be one of those cases.

    The fact that you center your blog on race then doesn’t mean that you must go ahead and attribute things erroneously to race. I think if you read back on the comments on this thread you’ll find most people think economic issues trump race, especially those who seem to have the most experience traveling.

    The “whiteness” thing I dont have a problem seeing. I am a white convert to Islam, my “whiteness” is something that I live every day because of the unique position of white converts to Islam. Non white Muslims remind me almost daily of my “whiteness” sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. I am the proud father of two multiracial children who are half white and half Arab. They will have to be Muslims in a religion where whites are often both demonised and lionised, they will be Arabs and Muslims in an America that often hates and always distrusts Arabs and Muslims. I see whiteness from a perspective that not many people do. So I would contend when you say that I have trouble seeing “whiteness” that you are completely wrong. I see it, I guess it is the way I react from it that is different from you. Many have said that for whites converting to Islam is actually to remove yourself from “whiteness”. It has been called “apostating from whiteness”. That is something I dont buy, but it is out there.

    I do dismiss “white guilt” as an automatically bad thing. Even LaToya agreed with me when I said “white guilt serves no purpose”. It doesnt. From a psychological respect, there is little positive about guilt and it does little or nothing to solve anything. Most often what I see with a person who comes out professing “white guilt” is a person who ends up doing nothing at all. It is nothing more than abasing oneself for something they didnt do to try and get the respect of a certain group around them.

    My perspective is that white guilt is actually just another way of people trying to get by without actually doing anything. Instead of feeling sorry and guilty for something you didnt do, become active and be PROUD of something that you have done to change society. All too often whites who profess “white guilt” end their activism with that.

    You talk about your “training to be white” that at times taught you to do some things that objectionable. Again, I sit and shake my head at that. That training must have an international school, it must be attended by many races and nationalities around the world and it must cost a lot to enter. If not, how do you then attribute those same exact “trained white behaviors” to people who are not white?

    You are taking a human condition and a socio-economic position and making it into a racial position when it isnt. I’ll tell you one thing I noticed, there are a lot of newly wealthy travelers from China whom I have seen abroad the last ten years. They must have visited that school to be “trained to be white” because they are following in the footsteps of all of those other non whites who are “trained to be white”.

    The issue is money and the feeling and sense of entitlement it gives people. As Europeans/Americans start to cease to be the dominate econmic base of this world you’ll see that the issues you have talked about do not go away, rather they will grow as the number of RICH people from non white countries grow. It is about the money. As a person who has traveled extensively the last 20+ years it is a trend that is already out there and growing by leaps and bounds. Maybe it is your “whiteness” that caused you to fail to see the number of Chinese tourists in Indonesia doing the same things as the white Americans? Maybe you just didnt notice them because they were not white? They are there. To the extent there is a huge racism problem against the Chinese in Indonesia.

  83. macon d wrote:

    Abu, I agree that money IS an issue here, but can’t there be different causes for the same kind of behavior?

    Also, I agree that guilt CAN be disabling, but can’t the realization that one is guilty of something also serve to motivate that person to do something different?

  84. Joseph wrote:

    @Abu Sinan
    “I see whiteness from a perspective that not many people do.”

    “My perspective is that white guilt is actually just another way of people trying to get by without actually doing anything… All too often whites who profess “white guilt” end their activism with that.”

    “I think if you read back on the comments on this thread you’ll find most people think economic issues trump race, especially those who seem to have the most experience traveling.”

    Cosign.

    Couple things:
    I understand completely a defensiveness about shifting the conversation away from race–even in the fairly subtle way that is being proposed by many of the posters, on a site devoted to race. But what Abu Sinan and others are saying is not really different from what Wendi Muse said in her post:

    “Don’t always assume racism is at play. As a result of the history of the United States, people of color and whites alike have been rendered into sensitivity machines, often analyzing things at a level of sociological sophistication that may not be of issue in some other countries. Also, bear in mind that every nation has its own respective history and deals with race and ethnicity accordingly. Don’t attempt to color their history with your own. Think of these things before you jump the gun.”

    I also appreciate the weariness (expressed by LaToya and others) with a class argument, which is sometimes used to silence dialogue about race. But some topics lend themselves to this sort of intersectional critique (I’m thinking here of gentrification discussions). This topic is one of those.

    I don’t hear anyone arguing that race is not important (if they were I’d wonder why they are here) but rather that it is an element in a cluster of factors that shape the experience of world travelers. When the conversation turns to privilege, especially on an international scale, reproducing American racial categories and projecting them onto the entire world doesn’t explain privilege, it embodies it.