Whose Feminism?

by Guest Contributor Thea Lim

For the past few months, I’ve felt agitated and short-tempered most of the time. Taking the afternoon off, watching all three of the Bourne movies in a row, unplugging for a long weekend – even the dreaded Talking About My Feelings hasn’t made a dent in the ball of rage that’s been growing steadily in my lungs, my solar plexus and my belly. The rage creates even more rage – and I find myself wondering, why can’t I just freakin’ calm down?

And then I got this note last week from Carmen through the New Demographic newsletter:

A couple of weeks ago I found myself feeling really angry and rundown, but I couldn’t put my finger on what exactly was causing these emotions…This has been a grueling year for people like you and me — folks who are passionate about fighting racism and creating social change. While this election has given many of us cause for hope, it has also brought out a lot of ugliness around us.

I’m a Canadian living in Canada, and due to a hangover from a very short affair with anarchy, I’m fairly suspicious of electoral politics, and sometimes don’t even vote. So when trying to unravel the roots of this ball of rage, the Democratic Primary Race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama was not the first place I looked.

But you see, I’m starting to understand what my problem is: I identify as a feminist. And I don’t just mean I read bell hooks from time to time and appreciate the equity undertones of Gilmore Girls. I mean, I really live feminism. I work for an overtly feminist women’s health organisation, my first novel was a work of feminist fiction, and I helped put together the Shameless Magazine blog – online companion to Canada’s only feminist print magazine for teenagers.

I’m also an anti-racist woman of colour.

Last week as I waded through Geraldine Ferraro’s horrible op-ed and yet another listserv conversation about how feminists must support Clinton, I realised that, Canadian or not, for the past few months being an anti-racist person of colour AND a feminist has become a source of heartache, deep sorrow, and yes, pure, seething, rage. Because it feels like feminism, a cause that I have defended and supported for four years, has turned its back on me.

What has hurt me about this far-removed, distant and abstract primary race, is not what Clinton has done – though the racism that marred the end of her campaign sure stings. It is what’s happening at the grassroots level, not at the level of Chris Matthews and CNN, that hurts me. What’s truly gut-wrenching is the message the feminist blogosphere, feminist journalists, and feminist politicians have broadcast, bull-horned and sky-written in response to Clinton’s candidacy.

It’s the assumption that if you are a woman, Hillary speaks for you. It is the assumption that if you are a feminist, you will vote for a woman, no matter who she is, and no matter how little she may represent your experience. It is the assumption that if you are a woman, if you are a feminist, you will agree that gender is the greatest barrier to success in (North) America.

It is the assumption, in short, that if you are a woman, you are a straight, white, middle-class woman.

It is painful enough to be told that race and class don’t matter. It is far more painful to be told that race and class don’t matter by a movement, that by its very definition, knows that gender matters – but today won’t admit that anything else does. At the risk of being dramatic, for the past few months, living as a woman of colour who is also a working feminist – which means every day trudging through emails, blog posts, reports, listservs and conversations that imply (or exply!) that only gender matters – has been a bit like having my extremities cut off one by one.

The primary race brought the divisions between anti-racist feminists and non-anti-racist feminists* to the surface, but the worst thing about this ugly reveal, is that being forced to face a schism that feminism has been unable to brook over and over, could’ve been a chance to work through some of those rifts. Instead it just revealed exactly how unequipped feminism is to deal with race.

As our friend Latoya has mentioned on this here blog many times, white American feminists were shockingly silent on the racism in Clinton’s campaign.**

In her letter “Addressing the wounds between White feminists and feminists of Color,” activist Aishah Shahidah Simmons outlines the grief and anger she felt when White, third wave feminists did not critique the racism in Clinton’s campaign:

The concern for me is that I longed to hear from progressive, anti-racist White feminists who publicly supported Clinton but also publicly took stands against her and her campaign’s racism. I felt and feel many of her supporters (who know the vicious hertories and contemporary realities of the intersections of race and gender in this country) were complicit as she and her campaign fanned the fires of racism, which like sexism, is deeply entrenched into the very fibers of the founding of this country.

My beef with non-anti-racists feminists came from a different angle: when it became clear, after the backlash that met Gloria Steinem’s famous op-ed, that it was not ok to pit gender against race, instead of trying to understand why it was not ok, non-anti-racist feminists simply continued to make the same ridiculous statements that pit gender against race; except added in meaningless disclaimers.

For example, the point that Obama did not have to face racism in the same amounts as Clinton had to face sexism, continued to be made – this time though, it was preceded by “Not that I want to get into whether or not race or gender are bigger barriers.” Listen, if you don’t want to get into whether or not race or gender are bigger barriers, then don’t talk about how gender is a bigger barrier than race.

Come on now, it’s not that complicated.

What I am utterly baffled by, is why a discussion that Clinton has had to deal with distressing amounts of sexism has to be followed by the argument that Obama has not faced racism. Or that racism has actually benefited Obama, because people will vote for him because it’s hip to support black people.

Hillary has been treated badly because she is a woman, period. Why does that fact have to be followed by a snipe about how racism doesn’t really exist anymore? I don’t feel the need to discount the ways Hillary has had a hard time due to sexism, or deny that sexism exists, in order to make a case for the fact that racism exists. It actually makes me physically ill to have to continuously listen to this argument.

Newsflash: an environment that allows sexism to flourish is usually an environment that allows racism to flourish. Feminists, anti-racists – heck, anyone who cares about creating a culture that has less hate – should bolster the argument that sexism exists in our countries WITH the argument that racism exists here too, NOT deny the existence of one or the other – because sexism and racism so often go hand in hand (along with classism, homophobia, ableism…). As a woman of colour, the existence of sexism for me fuels my awareness of racism.

This may seem like an obvious point, but I feel depressingly driven to spell it out: I’m not a woman and a person of colour – I’m simultaneously both. Usually when people are being sexist towards me, they’re also being racist. I would like to fight both racism and sexism. So why is feminism asking me to choose?

It’s not like I’ve never heard anti-racist women of colour say that while they are womanists or mujeristas, they are not feminists, because feminism doesn’t speak for women of colour. It was just that I thought – no, believed!1! – that my feminism, my third-wave-fourth-wave-no-wave feminism was for me and people like me.

I also continue to believe, very deeply, that the revolution ain’t gonna come until we recognise that struggles against sexism, racism, ableism, poverty, homophobia, heteronormativity, classism, consumerism, (etc) are all, at their root, the same struggle. So why shouldn’t anti-racist women of colour also fight for feminism?

Well, the answer turns out, because it hurts too much.

This is not to say that the whole feminist movement is rotten. All over the same blogosphere that posted so much of the racist schlock that made me lose my cookies, feminists – Hey! Feminists who happen to be white! – like Megan Carpentier and Jill at Feministe have written sharp, incredibly clever and fantastic critiques of non-racist feminism. In my non-virtual life, I work alongside many feminists who care about race and class. And I don’t plan to quit my job or distance myself from the feminist projects I helped to create, which I’m still proud of. But as a whole, the loudest incarnation of grassroots feminism today is one that is really starting to hurt my feelings, and that’s making it harder and harder for me to proudly call myself a feminist; or to call myself a feminist at all.

Denial is a common survival tactic. We hold certain truths of our existence at arms’ length for as long as possible, because if we were to truly grasp them, the pain would consume us. This technique doesn’t just apply to physical pain or extreme pain; i.e. to soldiers undergoing torture, to parents who have lost small children, to women whose partners abuse them. It’s a technique that many of us employ to get through our daily lives, because – as Carmen so eloquently noted – sometimes our daily lives can be a little battleground-ish.

For many months I denied, ignored and distanced myself from the fact that something as abstract as a US primary election – and what it revealed about my movement – could be the cause of my angst. The comments sections from feminist blogs I once loved seem like a funny thing to grieve over.

It’s hard to forgive and then move past an Ideology. But that’s what I have to do if I want to turf this ball of rage. And if that doesn’t work, please send donations: I’m gonna need a good therapist.

*Sorry, I know this term is a mouthful. But it’s not quite accurate to simply call feminists who don’t care about anti-racism White Feminists - I know lots of white feminists who are also anti-racist feminists, and who are just as disgusted by feminism’s failure to be anti-racist as anti-racist women of colour feminists are.

**Latoya’s Note: Mentioning something once does not constitute adequate coverage of a situation. But I’ll get to that in another post.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Feminism has done it again « Immigration, Assimilation, Ethnicity and All That Jazz on 13 Jun 2008 at 8:19 am

    […] by chinesecanuck on June 13, 2008 I usually don’t comment on Racialicious posts two days in a row, but I felt like I had to do so with today’s post by guest columnist Thea […]

  2. links for 2008-06-14 « Canadian People of Colour on 14 Jun 2008 at 8:32 am

    […] Whose Feminism? at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture “Newsflash: an environment that allows sexism to flourish is usually an environment that allows racism to flourish. Feminists, anti-racists – heck, anyone who cares about creating a culture that has less hate – should bolster the argument that sexism (tags: sexism racism white antiracism feminism Canada US Canadian women peopleofcolour womenofcolour) […]

  3. Too Much Going On - Short Links « Words From The Center, Words From The Edge on 16 Jun 2008 at 1:22 pm

    […] Whose Feminism? over at Racialicious by Guest Contributor Thea Lim where she discusses her feelings of anger and betrayal toward some of the white feminist blogosphere and grassroots movements that ignore any discussion of race. I think it puts into words what a lot of Women of Color are feeling right now toward the feminist movement. […]

Comments

  1. Liza wrote:

    Thank you, Thea. I rarely find myself at a loss for words, and yet, all I want to scream at the top of my voice where I am currently sitting in a cafeteria (where I am the only brown person) is.. THANK YOU!. This post feels like home to me….. nice work!

  2. stella wrote:

    The Clinton v Obama race provided us an insight into the state of feminism today. Alas it seems to be steeped in racism, classism etc. Take Sex and the City, a series about four independent women looking for love, they’re all of a particular class and race in a city with such diversity.

  3. Britta wrote:

    Thank you for the post Thea!
    As a white person who identifies as both a feminist and as someone fighting against racism. I too have felt incredibly alienated by the mainstream feminist movement recently, both over the primary campaign and other issues. I’ve had a somewhat ambivalent relationship with feminism for years, because of its racist, classist undertones, but recently, it really made me start thinking about what “women’s equality” really means. I think part of problem with that is that since men aren’t equal, women’s “equality” with men would still replicate our hierarchical society where the few are in power can exploit the many who aren’t. For an upper class white woman, to be equal to my male peers means that she too can fully share in the ability to oppress those beneath me.

    I used to think that was an unintended flaw with mainstream (white) feminists, who were so focussed on the few ways they were oppressed that they ignored all the ways they weren’t. Now, with the likes of Linda Hershman etc, I’m beginning to feel that they understand exactly what’s going on: they’re second class ruling elites, and being this close to power, they want every bit they can get. These are the types that celebrate female CEOs who exploit women in third world countries, and who brag about their cheap nannies and hired help. They fully understand that their liberation relies on the backs of poor (often) brown women, and they don’t care. I call it “plantation feminism.”

    Of course, I may just be being cynical, and I’d like to hope I’m wrong, but more and more, I’m beginning to feel that in order for feminism to truly work as a movement, it can only be intersectional–not because there isn’t such a thing as just “plain” sexism, but because if you separate feminism from other forms of social justice, it ends up being a “me-too” movement for wealthy white women.

  4. Gurl wrote:

    In this country if you’re rich and white your only impediment may be your gender. Femimism has largely been the concern of that particular group because it meant removing the last obstacle to real power. From the latest brouhaha about Clinton and Obama one gets the sense that the pioneering feminists have only given lip service to the other isms plaguing our society.

  5. Sumayyah wrote:

    WHEW! This piece was refreshing and thought provoking. I’m glad somebody said it. As a WOC, I was torn, in the beginning, between Hilary and Obama. However, as time went on, I saw that maybe, just maybe, I was not being represented by Ms. Clinton’s campaign. It’s time for an overhaul of the movements, both of them. Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this.

  6. Renee wrote:

    Your posts explains so well why I choose to identify with womanism. I believe that it is foolish for WOC to identify with a movement that has made clear that we have never had a voice and never will.

    I did not grieve or go through an emotional loss when I disavowed feminism as I realize it was never mine to begin with. At least with womanism I can be counted, what I say matters. Womanism has a place for allies.

    When something is rotten to the core, which feminism certainly is you cannot reinvent it. This is similar to those people that try to reclaim hate words and use them as terms of affection. Since its very beginning feminism has been about rich/middle class white women and we should take them at their word and move on. This does not mean an end to advocating for women. It means allowing them to have the space that they clearly want and creating something new and inclusive out of the ashes.

  7. tanglad wrote:

    I avoid commenting when I have nothing more to say that thank you, but damn. Salamat, thank you, salamat! Your post articulates why I feel shaken, even as I still call myself feminist.

    In the late 1980s, I viewed feminism in much the same terms as Hirshman (please note that I was a teenager then. but still, sorry). I was still living in the Philippines, revelling in how we had deposed a dictator and elected a WOMAN president, and things were going to be all right for Filipina women from now on. Snort. “Feminist” goals were defined by Filipinas who were in a certain demographic–upper-middle class, college educated, Catholic. I am ashamed to say that back then, I was complicit in the silencing of marginalized women — migrants, peasants, urban poor. And before someone raises the crap about how there’s no racism in countries where most people are brown or the same color, please read up on indigenous Filipinas and Muslim Filipinas.

    Throughout the primary, I wanted to scream at people that putting a woman’s face on the presidency is meaningless if the structures of racism, homophobia, class privileges, sexism, etc remain. There’s a lot of coalition work that still needs to be done.

  8. juju wrote:

    Thanks for saying it.

    “As our friend Latoya has mentioned on this here blog many times, white American feminists were shockingly silent on the racism in Clinton’s campaign.**
    I think some (not only some white feminists) have not spoken out about it because they don’t believe that it exist. They believe that those who see it are being overly sensitive or are misinterpreting.

  9. juju wrote:

    @Britta
    I don’t think you’re being cynical. I too believe that this is a battle for power, with the contenders believing that the battle is won by whoever most closely mimics the wealthy white male elite minority. The same phenomenon functions within POC communities where men, upper classes, and various others among the relatively privileged, hope to be crowned king of the hill. I also agree that this is wholly intentional, and not based in ignorance. We all know the stakes.
    I like your “plantation feminism” term.

  10. Radfem wrote:

    Really good article and good discussion. I’m White, was once a feminist but the issues that I work with with other women are issues that feminism isn’t interested because anything outside of its White middle-class paradym is seen as advocating for men. Because if you’re not a White feminist advocating for issues germane to White feminists or women, then you’re pushing for focusing on men over women, otherwise known as a cardinal sin in feminism.

    Many but not all White feminists refused to see racism in Clinton’s campaign even as they decried and practically put out as a loyalty test that you had to decry sexism in Obama’s campaign. Okay, fine there was especially in the media and that’s definitely worth calling out. But for them to say, it’s sexist and racism’s wrong but we’ll deal with it when it actually happens, is just racist or the kind of privilege that allows ignorance and denial. Then when you disagree, it’s about calling them “racists” which somehow became worse than racism.

    And I’m a Cynthia McKinney voter anyway but the campaign negated any good feeling about seeing a woman running for the nomination. But what’s disgusting too is that there’s silence among White feminists that she’s even in the race as there’s silence on the racism and misogyny being aimed at Michelle Obama because the only thing they seem focused on is the so-called “Whitey” video.

    It’s disappointing but it is what it is and what’s called “mainstream” feminism has no ownership over defining what women’s issues are and are not and over them. Still, it tries to exert that control even over the issues it cares not a whit about.

    I was having a conversation with White feminists online about the NAACP’s challenge of the sentencing of two Black men for bank robbery (who got prison) compared to two White women (who didn’t even the one who violated probation). It’s amazing how quickly that thread turned around to how bad things were for the White women b/c they were called Barbie (as in Barbie bandits) and bimbo in the media. Okay, so yeah that is not right and it’s sexist and something should be said about it, maybe on a different discussion? But if you want to talk about sexism, their gender along with their race and how the two are defined together kept them out of prison because most bank robbers even if everyone’s in on it still go to prison. Certainly if they’re Black. And I don’t think most of them know or have talked to people who’ve been to prison to understand what a 5-10 year prison sentence is compared to probation. But why should they? How much time do they spend discussing or working on CJS issues including penal system issues even as more and more women are incarcerated. You don’t see many White women doing that and FTMP the ones I’ve met who do don’t identify as feminists.

    The way society is, the two White women would probably do their probation or couple of months in county jail, wait until any “Son of Sam” provisions are not in place and probably sign a book or talk show deal.

    So a discussion about racism which in that case did impact men but if they’d been Black women, they’d got prison time too was twisted to be about those poor White women being called barbies in the news. And ask yourself, being called a barbie or 5-10 years in the pen? Maybe think about that a little?

    Maybe that’s all that White feminists can see. And you’re being called on your sexism and for not calling Black men on their sexism (even though in this case, sexism helped the women, hurt the men) and so forth.

    It’s not worth it to waste the time trying to explain why it’s still an important issue in terms of how Black men and women are treated disproportinately in terms of sentences, charges filed and percentages in the system compared to White men and especially White women. I guess I’m more interested in working with women who believe these issues are feminist issues and are willing to work on them rather than argue about them or poo-pooh them as “men’s issues” and outside of feminism’s focus.

    I was talking to several teenaged Black women, both minors, who were beaten, kicked and/or tased or hit with batons by police officers in two different cities this week or treated on traffic stops like they were drug couriers by officers pointing guns (and when most White women think of traffic stops they think it’s so horrible if they get ticketed). It’s a big feminist issue in my opinion. But most White feminists for example draw a blank and bristle up when reminded that this kind of thing happens with the goal of making them feel safer.

    I was also talking with a White woman whose son was shot after he crashed his car by police. He was identified as “Hispanic” because of the neighborhood I guess and he was actually biracial. But these issues even when they impact White women (though it’s much rarer and they are often mentally ill or initially identified as women of color by police). Not much involvement by White feminists because only men get killed by police of course and the police must have a reason and maybe they’re keeping the women safe and in the case of Sean Bell, I even encountered White feminists who not only said that had nothing to do with feminism even as part of a larger issue that impacts women but that he was misogynist for going to a stag party.

  11. Persia wrote:

    Britta, I’m pretty much where you are. I’ve felt increasingly betrayed by women who seem to have learned nothing in the past decades, and seem to not want to learn.

    At the same time, paradoxically, the nastiness those ‘older white feminists’ (though not all of them) keep throwing at people who advocate intersectionality and a better connection with reality gives me a lot of hope. If we weren’t making progress, would those women be so angry and fearful? I doubt it.

  12. Jennifer Gandin Le wrote:

    “Newsflash: an environment that allows sexism to flourish is usually an environment that allows racism to flourish… the revolution ain’t gonna come until we recognise that struggles against sexism, racism, ableism, poverty, homophobia, heteronormativity, classism, consumerism, (etc) are all, at their root, the same struggle.”

    Thank you, Thea, for so elegantly and concisely pointing out what should be painfully obvious. I hope that articulating all of these things helps you push that ball of anger and discomfort out of your chest and back into the world, where it belongs. Thanks for a great post.

  13. Morgan wrote:

    I understand all the anger in this post; I have felt it too, as well as disappointment and shame.

    What lets me sleep better at night, I try to keep my personal concept of feminism locked in the political idea that women are equal to men and should advocate thereof. When ever I try and find a spokewoman or base my idea of feminism on a more famous woman who calls herself a feminist, I am always disappointed, as they are inevitably full of human foibles and fuck up. Lately a lot of big names have fucked up. But that doesn’t change how I feel. I consider myself a feminist, but that does not mean Ferraro at al speak for me.

  14. Kirk Van Irvin wrote:

    To Ms. Lim:
    I’m glad you put this out. When I hear feminists shout out that they are going to vote for Mc Cain, I want to laugh. Do they honestly think REPUBLICANS are going to fight for their issues? This is just acting out of pure spite, and all it’s gonna do is hurt their cause . If Hillary would have won I’d have supported her , because A) I like them both ; it would have been a win -win situation for the democratic party no matter who they picked , and B) the alternative is four more years of Republicans .

    I have some questions though , I saw a lot of sexist remarks from some of the MSM, but I didn’t notice any from the Obama’s camp . it might be me with the blinders on If some body could clue me in , I’d appreciate it.

  15. juju wrote:

    @Morgan

    I think about feminism in a similar way. To me feminism is about the liberation of women, all women. I reserve the right to define the term and my definition may or may not intersect with how big name activists/mainstream thinkers/many white women define it.

  16. Kandee wrote:

    Great post! Racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism all operate in the same sphere. Supporting the abolition of one and not the others is pointless.

  17. CScarlet wrote:

    Thank you, Thea. More and more of posts like yours are cropping up and I can see that feminism is going to need a drastic overhaul if it’s ever going to affect true change, and I don’t want a part of the movement if it doesn’t.

    I feel so much rage in the face of all this. One of the reasons that ultimately stopped me from supporting Hillary Clinton WAS the racism in her campaign, and this was largely brushed over by some feminist friends supporting Clinton (mostly white, but some not).
    I hate that I can’t just, by knowing someone identifies as a feminist, know that their ideas/views are going to be compatible with mine. And I don’t mean that everyone should be the same, I just want everyone to ahdere to some basic principles. Like sexism is only one of myriad oppressions that intersect in this society. That talking about race and gender in opposition erases people.

  18. Medea wrote:

    Very few of the feminist bloggers or journalists I read have assumed that any right-thinking woman would vote for Hillary.
    Part fifty-four of the Obama racism watch was recently posted at Shakesville. Feministe has two articles addressing racism directed against Obama so far this month, and Feministing has three June posts on racism directed against Barack and Michelle. Geraldine Ferraro and Gloria Steinem were criticized at Shakesville, Pandagon, Feministing, and Feministe, the “Big Four” feminist blogs. I don’t think it’s fair to say that the feminist blogosphere has been ignoring the issue, or that they have only mentioned it once.
    On the other hand, I was pained by the general silence on the topic of racism utilized by the Clinton campaign, and Amanda Marcotte’s explanation as to why she hadn’t posted on Michelle Obama was utterly inadequate.

  19. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Medea -

    Thea specifically shouted out places like Feministe in her piece, but she refers to a much broader feminist base. The things she has forwarded me from listservs (of which I belong to zero) and articles from here and abroad are absolutely horrifying.

    And I think your last bit here:

    On the other hand, I was pained by the general silence on the topic of racism utilized by the Clinton campaign

    explains a lot of the ire.

    A racism watch rings kind of hollow if you are only willing to point it toward people you don’t like.

    I have other issues with that, but I’ll bring those up at a later date, as I indicated in the piece.

  20. Joseph wrote:

    From the mouths of Canadians…

    Thank you for this great post.

    There is clearly a difference between feminism as an ideology of gender equality (which is not specific to race, ethnicity or class) and feminism as a political movement, which is principally an expression of privileged white women. Not incidentally these women are also overwhelmingly straight: second wave feminism threw lesbians under the bus in the same way that first wavers dumped women of color. While establishment feminism has often aligned itself with other movements (civil rights, gay rights etc.) it has just as often jettisoned these populations to present a “normal” face to the world as a strategy to agitate for equality, a paradox that is largely unexplored in the west.

    Meanwhile self-described third world feminists have made thoughtful critiques of feminism as an expression of white/western/colonial privilege for decades. I’m mostly familiar with Middle Eastern critiques like those written by Parvin Paidar–who coined the term “Orientalist Feminism”–Roksana Bahramitash and Saba Mahmood–but this discourse isn’t limited to one part of the world. So why do western WOC get the bum’s rush when it comes to raising these same issues?

    If any good emerges from the ugliness of the Clinton campaign it will be a serious consideration of these issues in the west. But I won’t hold my breath that it will come from establishment feminism.

  21. Hot Tramp wrote:

    it really made me start thinking about what “women’s equality” really means. I think part of problem with that is that since men aren’t equal, women’s “equality” with men would still replicate our hierarchical society where the few are in power can exploit the many who aren’t. For an upper class white woman, to be equal to my male peers means that she too can fully share in the ability to oppress those beneath me.

    Britta, this is awesome. Thank you for saying what I’ve been grasping at for a while.

  22. Thea wrote:

    Oh wow! Thanks so much for all the positive feedback. I actually haven’t had the chance to speak to too many WOC/feminists about this, and hearing that my experience isn’t unusual is a huge relief.

    @Jennifer Gandin Le: much to my surprise writing this stuff out - and hearing what other people have to say about it - has made me feel better. I feel much lighter and more cheerful today than I have in a while!

  23. waxghost wrote:

    If it makes you feel any better, seeing the parallel racism against Obama and sexism against Clinton in this race forced me to realize that they were, as you say, from the same place and that I needed to educate myself (a white woman, in case you couldn’t guess) a lot more on racism. I personally felt rage and sadness at how a lot of people I once thought were on my side of sexism were treating Clinton, so when I saw the same kinds of expressions of rage and sadness from women of color, it really opened my eyes and made me realize that there was more to feminism than just women and sexism. I just hope I’m not the only one.

  24. Fellow-ette wrote:

    Yeah, as a young white feminist, I’ve been deeply, deeply ashamed by some of these older women’s behavior. Chris Matthews et al have been racist AND sexist. But the clinton campaign race-baited whereas the obama campaign never systematically engaged in sexism.

  25. Thea wrote:

    @waxghost - I’m really happy to hear that you made that connection. It seems like people often don’t, which both enrages and puzzles me.

  26. juju wrote:

    @Fellow-ette

    “I’ve been deeply, deeply ashamed by some of these older women’s behavior”

    I think another thing that we have seen in this election is the scapegoating of older white women. I don’t think the older/younger dichotomy is so clear cut.

    I can’t speak to whether systematic sexism was employed in the Obama campaign, but from my limited viewing, the sexism was certainly there.

  27. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Juju -

    I agree. I think a lot of older white feminists have been tossed under the bus unfairly because the views aren’t necessarily coming from them.

    I’ve heard/seen a lot of third wavers who were quick to argue that racism isn’t as important anymore or that the charges of race baiting were false, or what have you.

  28. Renee wrote:

    “I agree. I think a lot of older white feminists have been tossed under the bus unfairly because the views aren’t necessarily coming from them.

    I’ve heard/seen a lot of third wavers who were quick to argue that racism isn’t as important anymore or that the charges of race baiting were false, or what have you.”

    Older white feminists have been very vocal, need I remind you of the rant wherein Barack was called an incompetent black man, say nothing of the repeated attacks by Ferraro. I cannot believe that woman was ever an inspiration to me.
    I will agree that there are just as many third wavers who have displayed their white privilege by continually ignoring the racism in the campaign that has been directed towards the entire Obama family. Now some of them think that they can show solidarity by voting Cynthia McKinney. They all make me just a little ill.

  29. Persia wrote:

    @Medea– I think it’s important to remember that the feminist blogosphere is only a small part of the feminist conversation, and is often considered the most ‘fringe’ of all among mainstream thinkers.

    @Thea– yay! I’m glad you’re feeling better. That makes me doubly glad for this post.

    There is clearly a difference between feminism as an ideology of gender equality (which is not specific to race, ethnicity or class) and feminism as a political movement, which is principally an expression of privileged white women.

    Good point, Joseph. I think it ties in to Radfem’s earlier post, too– too often “plantation feminists” don’t recognize the way that sexism intersects with racism and boxes all kinds of people in. The stereotype of the rampaging black man usually hits both the racist and sexist axes– because who are his ‘victims’ but delicate, vulnerable white women? We can’t fight one stereotype without pulling the other out, and I wish more people could see that.

  30. juju wrote:

    @Latoya

    “I’ve heard/seen a lot of third wavers who were quick to argue that racism isn’t as important anymore or that the charges of race baiting were false, or what have you.”

    Yes, and some of those espousing this POV like gospel are W/MOC.

  31. juju wrote:

    @Renee

    “Older white feminists have been very vocal, need I remind you of the rant wherein Barack was called an incompetent black man, say nothing of the repeated attacks by Ferraro. ”

    The vocal few do not represent the whole.

    “Now some of them think that they can show solidarity by voting Cynthia McKinney. They all make me just a little ill.”

    I hear you on the newly found Mckinney love. She was been around for some time, what makes her so appealing now?

  32. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Renee -

    Yes, we’ve covered that. But I noticed a lot of the older white feminists who disagreed (or came out for Obama) found themselves quickly shuttled off to the side. They are not the ones being approached by TV stations or by the editors of Op-Ed sections.

    I am sure there are plenty of women who agree with Ferraro. But there are many who do not. But I can only recall seeing one written piece published that had that alternate viewpoint.

    Part of me wonders if it is the same silencing employed when they publish someone like Linda Hirschman, but black women and non-sensationalist feminists have to go to majority black or alternative publications to be heard.

  33. Joseph wrote:

    @Latoya and Juju
    I agree we have to be attentive to creating an artificial separation based on age in discussing this topic for the reasons you’ve both said, but I also think it is legitimate to question the behavior of older women in the Clinton campaign because they made themselves so conspicuous as feminist leaders.

    Gloria Steinem and Geraldine Ferraro spoke out–not only for themselves, but on behalf of “women” as a group. And in so doing defined “women” as a political force that is white and privileged.

    While it is true that the “sexism trumps racism” message is not exclusive to older women, in the Clinton campaign it was explicitly delivered by older women and directed toward an older, white female audience. This demographic was (and is) touted as a powerful population in this election and Obama is working hard to try and win them over even as we speak.

    So, in those terms I don’t think it is out of bounds to look at age as a factor. Not to demonize older white feminists but to try and understand their reaction to this race and how it impacts feminism(s).

  34. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Britta -

    Plantation feminism is spot on. I am completely going to start using that.

    @Joseph -

    No, we agree. I am just a little wary of saying “all older white feminists” because I have seen it used more as a “whew, glad we aren’t racist like that” justification than a jumping off point to wonder why older feminist icons would act like this in the first place, and to actively call them on it. It’s kind of like the age divide discussion we had the other day - yes, it is easy to blame older people for the issues of racism, but there are a lot of younger folks doing their best to keep things going.

    What is starting to bother me more is the lack of alternative perspectives in the mainstream media. For every Linda Hirschman, there should be a good, through rebuttal - but for some reason there isn’t. They got Moe from Jezebel to rebut her piece in the Washington Post…

    I know controversy sells, but damn.

  35. juju wrote:

    “@Joseph -
    No, we agree. I am just a little wary of saying “all older white feminists” because I have seen it used more as a “whew, glad we aren’t racist like that” justification than a jumping off point to wonder why older feminist icons would act like this in the first place, and to actively call them on it. It’s kind of like the age divide discussion we had the other day - yes, it is easy to blame older people for the issues of racism, but there are a lot of younger folks doing their best to keep things going.”

    What Latoya said.

    I am talking about the scapegoating. Some seem to be using “older women (white)” to deflect attention away from their own b.s., and also saying that it is something about their age. As in, “don’t look at me and my problematic statements/behavior, I’m young, cute and progressive, it’s those ugly hags who need to shut the f-up, those are the ones who should be dragged to the temple for sacrifice”.

  36. Black Canseco wrote:

    “Gloria Steinem and Geraldine Ferraro spoke out–not only for themselves, but on behalf of “women” as a group. And in so doing defined “women” as a political force that is white and privileged.”

    They’ve repeated only what they learned from “feminists” that came before them–whichever wave you want to give them.

    Feminism’s biggest problem isn’t generational or waves or who gets to speak for whom, but rather it remains the stunning inability to combat and analyze its roots.

    Similar to patriots who dismissive slavery and native american genocide as hiccups and “unfortunate incidents” in our history, the classism and racism in feminism was there from the beginning.

    Feminist weren’t fighting for native women or black women who were largely seen as chattel if not second/third class citizens, they were fighting for themselves.

    If feminism has any hope for evolving it’s going to come when people stop writing off its roots as “incidents” and “i see your point but…”

    Feminism needs a fundamental paradigm shift in which all involved acknowledge its roots as they really were and commit to moving forward together–not one wave condescendingly trying to “include” others as if “they” are guests in “their” movement; and not one in which any criticism of a woman is written off as sexism and women of color are relegated to screaming from the blogosphere because they have no voice anywhere else.

    You can’t cure a disease as long you’re convinced it’s just a case of sniffles. And right now, that’s how this whole thing looks to me—just cold medicine and kleenex over cures.

  37. Fellow-ette wrote:

    @ juju (26)

    When I say older women, I’m speaking obviously of a specific, small group of second-wavers who I once considered role models/heroines. Obviously, not all older women are like this–my mom and grandmother rejected Clinton after the race-baiting–and not all younger women are saintly. I didn’t mean to perpetuate the silly “generation divide” media story, but rather to express the profound disillusionment I’ve experienced.

  38. Torontonian wrote:

    Thank you, Thea!

    I actually really like the term “non-antiracist” feminist. Its flip would be “non-feminist” antiracist. It’s safe to assume that non-antiracist feminists have a racist POV until proven otherwise, and that non-feminist/non-womanist antiracists have a sexist POV until proven otherwise.

    On another Racialicious post a while ago, some commenter said that racism is unacceptable in our society, while sexism is acceptable. This just shows the huge, fundamental gap between non-antiracists and antiracists in understanding something as basic as what racism is. Non-antiracists, including non-antiracist feminists, think that racism is limited to something obvious like violence against people of colour, lynching, KKK, and racist hate speech. These things are unacceptable in our society and nobody wants to be called a racist, so they think that racism is unacceptable.

    That’s so completely out of touch with reality. Non-antiracists who think that racism is unacceptable in our society are like non-feminists who think that sexism is unacceptable in our society because our society is against wife beating and domestic abuse. A person who thinks that they are “not racist” because they hate Neo-Nazis is like a person who thinks that they are “not sexist” because they hate wife beaters.

    Non-antiracist feminists think that society is more against racism than it is against sexism, because blatant racism is more universally condemned than subtle sexism. But what about subtle racism? Non-antiracists can’t even see subtle racism.

    There are many more feminists in North America than there are antiracists. Sexism is more than just violence against women, and racism is more than just violence against people of colour. Being against blatant sexism doesn’t mean that you don’t have sexist views. Being against blatant racism doesn’t mean that you don’t have racist views. Non-antiracists, usually whites, have trouble understanding the latter. At least when it comes to people of colour, about 50% of the population understand that sexism is not just the blatant kind.

  39. Torontonian wrote:

    Non-antiracists, including non-antiracist feminists, think that the “default” is not racist, that racist people are those who go against the norm. Similarly, non-feminists think that the “default” is not sexist, that sexist people are those who go against the norm.

  40. Black Canseco wrote:

    “anti-racist feminists”… “Non-antiracist feminists”?!

    What does this say about the state of Women of Color in the feminist movement when terms like these have to be embraced just to broaden the discussion?

    “Women” might be the biggest problem here… Who defines “women” in the feminist movement?
    Who’s always defined it? And no matter how much people fight to broaden and evolve the definition, it seems as if the same group of people are bent on keeping “women” from ever changing.

    to me, excluding/marginalizing WOC as feminism does is sexist–way more sexist than most of what gets decried as sexism on a regular basis.

  41. Persia wrote:

    Part of me wonders if it is the same silencing employed when they publish someone like Linda Hirschman, but black women and non-sensationalist feminists have to go to majority black or alternative publications to be heard.

    That’s an interesting point, LaToya. I noticed in a lot of the Salon posts that disintegrated into Obama vs. Clinton smear attacks there were women self-identifying as older feminists and calling out racism. One of Obama’s most vocal supporters on Ezra Klein’s blog was an older feminist too, same deal. Is the gap as big as we think it is, or are the ‘plantation feminists’ just getting the mic?

  42. NancyP wrote:

    Latoya at #32, you are spot on.

    Mainstream news is a business, not actual news. Extremist sound-bite conflict is favored because it is easy to arrange and is favored by the viewers (advertisement targets) for its lack of demand on the brain. It suits MSM to have HRC and Obama have down-n-dirty fights by proxy (pundit, low-level campaign staffer, obscure blog). The MSM isn’t going to examine the considerable similarities in policy, the considerable differences in background and temperament, a not-so-obvious similarity in ability (or disability) to make compromises, and so on. That doesn’t get market share.

    Furthermore, the MSM, being for-profit, and following the trend of consolidation with different types of media in same market, and consolidation with non-media items (food, etc), is conservative. They want to further consolidate, and for that require a passive and compliant FCC run by Republicans. Now, it’s no surprise to me that MSM and the owners are hostile to female and minority power and governance. The MSM pundits are selected with this in mind - prime example for women being Maureen Dowd at the NYT (she’s a gossipmonger who rarely attends to serious issues).

    Feminists of any type rarely get face time on MSM. When they do show up, they are taking an adversarial position versus other women, not other men. Linda Hirschman has had two major articles in prestige newspapers. Article number one had her castigating women who choose to opt out of high-demand jobs to take care of family. Bingo - stereotype of child-hating, man-hating feminist, to be opposed to the 6,000 word articles about the bliss of (wealthy) women who opted out of careers. Article number two had her castigating third-wave feminists supporting Obama. Divide and conquer!

  43. juju wrote:

    @Black Canseco
    “to me, excluding/marginalizing WOC as feminism does is sexist–way more sexist than most of what gets decried as sexism on a regular basis.”

    White feminists didn’t invent this definition of “women”. This is the very same definition that comes from the larger society; many feminists have historically accepted this definition without challenge. This is coming from mainstream western culture.

    And of course some feminists have historically fought against this definition; remember Sojourner Truth and “Ain’t I a woman”. What are you suggesting, that WOC give up the struggle and embrace ideas like womanism, that we do movement building outside of mainstream white feminism, or are you saying we should give up focusing on gender equality in general?

  44. Black Canseco wrote:

    juju,

    You’re right: “White feminists didn’t invent this definition of “women”. However they were happy to embrace and cosign it as it served their needs despite its marginalization of WOCs specially Black, Native American and Hispanic women.

    Still, I would never suggest WOC give up the fight for equality; i just think the WOC’s should ban together and start a movement of their own to ensure that WOCs are heard. Now obviously some White feminists see that women isnt means all women. and those feminists would be more than willing to align and combine at the very least on issues of intersectionality.

    But as long as WOCs are chasing mainstream feminism for inclusion and acknowledgment, I think these problems will always be here.

    I can’t be free as long as i need your approval to be what I already know I am and this case, equal and relevant.

    Half the anger and frustration comes from the hurt of being ignored by folks you want to validate you.

    Now is there strength in numbers and the more the stronger? Sure. but at some point i’d rather have a like-minded crew of 10 than a crew of 10,000 that i have to constantly beg and plead and convince to work together.

  45. bea wrote:

    Thank you for this post, Thea. I totally agree with your assessment of the so-called feminists for Hillary. I have a multi-racial background (half Asian, half Caucasian) and consider myself a feminist.

    To me, the fallacy behind this whole Obama/Clinton, race/sex polemic is that somehow, in and of itself, a person’s race/sex will make them a better president. Will Obama be a better president because his father was African? Will Hillary be a better president because she is a woman? In my experience, a person’s race and/or sex does not always mean he or she will be sensitive to issues of discrimination or qualified to do a particular job. I have known plenty of incompetent, insensitive women and men of all colors and ethnic backgrounds.

    What matters here is “how” Obama’s ethnic heritage and “how” Hillary’s sex has informed them as individuals and could lend them insights that would be valuable as a president of a diverse country like the U.S. I feel like the “feminists” focusing on getting a woman in office are completely disregarding what this particular woman stands for and whether she will be a good president.

    It seems to me that supporting a candidate simply because he or she is from an underrepresented group amounts to playing the same game as those who have systematically discriminated those groups.

    I support Obama because he is an inspirational, sharp, genuine man who has leadership qualities the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime. I also think his heritage gives him a unique ability to think outside of the divisive “race” box that has done nothing but retard the progress of this country and humanity in general.

    Sure, Clinton is a woman, but, in my opinion, she is a corporate lap dog with the ingrained old guard mentality we so desperately need to abandon. A product that comes in packaging that appeals to us may still be a piece of junk!

  46. Kirk Van Irvin wrote:

    @ Black Canseco:
    you wrote- “Women” might be the biggest problem here… Who defines “women” in the feminist movement?

    I agree. From a guy looking in from outside it seems that the biggest obstacle to feminism are other women. I remember when they were trying to ratify the ERA and WOMEN were fighting against it! Black people as a group don’t agree on everything, But if there is a issue that affect us for either good or bad , we will rally around it, regardless of sex ,class or political affiliation. Even Black Republicans are going “it’s about time” as far as Obama’s concerned. When Condoleezza Rice broke out with that speech on slavery being a “birth defect”, I was like , WHOA!!” Didn’t think she had it in her! It just proved my point, a point that’s been touched on in this blog, as well as other places , until all women stand together, feminism as a whole is not going to be taken seriously by men.

  47. juju wrote:

    @Black Canseco

    You make some great points.
    I especially appreciated this sentence:
    “I can’t be free as long as i need your approval to be what I already know I am and this case, equal and relevant.”

    I noted that white feminists did not invent the popular definition of “woman” in an effort to provide some context. Feminism is too often singled out for blame for the evils running rampant in the larger society.

    Of course, WOC have been doing and continue to do feminist work outside of the white mainstream, and they may or may not call themselves feminists.

  48. Black Canseco wrote:

    “Of course, WOC have been doing and continue to do feminist work outside of the white mainstream, and they may or may not call themselves feminists.”

    So my question now is, do they/we continue to work outside of the mainstream simultaneously seeking inclusion into a movement that has no right to exclude in the first place without automatically devaluing itself, or should there be a rallying and galvanizing for a new movement one rooted in a true collective of woman as opposed to being “accepted” by someone else definition as if they’re doing WOCs a favor?

  49. juju wrote:

    @Black Canseco

    I think this has already happened, and continues to happen. “Womanism” is one example, and I believe Latoya calls herself a “Hip hop feminist”. Is there something like a New NOW? Not to my knowledge. But a movement is so much more than a major nonprofit that seeks to further a cause. We should probably be talking about movements, in the plural. Whether one should identity with the mainstream and struggle for inclusion, well I suppose that is a question that each individual must answer. There is work to be done on many fronts and there are issues that cut across many demographics.

  50. Autumn wrote:

    Let me first say that no type of oppression is acceptable. When I read most of these comments I felt sad, not empowered. To hear someone say feminism is rotten to the core is very troubling to me. It seems that power minorities need to work together to accomplish change. Sexism, racism, classism, hetero-normativity, etc are all very present in our society. As a woman with a degree in women’s studies, work experience as a social worker, and someone who now does research on women and the law, I can say with all certainty that feminism is incredibly focused on intersectionality. I think it is very dangerous to generalize an entire group. To be a feminist is to advocate for the equality of women, no matter the color. 2nd wave feminism does not represent feminism. The primary season revealed that sexism and racism are still enormous problems in our society. It is a mistake to argue that either isn’t an issue or to rank them.

  51. Jonathan Richardson wrote:

    Great article Thea,

    I also feel that our (people of color-I am a Black man- and women of color) desire to make some inroads into areas of societal conciousness, has historically had us grabbing hold to any small nugget of hope of equitable treatment. Because of this, at times we are not able to totally and completely present our positions without having White Americans feel an uncomfortability that may stop them from supporting even the most minute parts of our cause. So we find ourselves presenting an “icecube” sized portion of an “iceberg” problem in hopes of making the topic “comfortable” enough for Whites to handle, but being “surprised” when they only want to acknowledge the “icecube” we presented and not the “iceberg” we know exist beneath the surface. I love the fact that Barack Obama could be our next President, but I am concerned that his “need” to make White America comfortable enough to vote for him leaves him distancing himself from groups and issues that are needed to be addressed and discussed if we are “REALLY” going to deal with tough issues in America concerning Race and Gender. For the larger society to deal with feminism, women of color have relegated their specific concerns to the back of the line in an effort to see the needs of the larger group addressed. While this may seem to be appropriate for the “cause” , when the need to address the specific needs of the women of color within the feminist movement is brought to the forefront, the White feminist wonder “where did this come from” because it had not been brought up before. Yes it is tricky terrain that we navigate in trying to know when and what we can bring to the table of discussion. But know this, if we don’t bring it up early there are those who are going to act as if our concerns don’t exist.

  52. easywriter wrote:

    I’m trying to figure out if you were asleep at the wheel all these years, or if you didn’t have the experience of seeing your Mom left out of the whole feminist movement when it came out full force in the 1970’s because 1. She didn’t relate to the white women; and 2. She thoroughly never thought of herself as downtrodden because she was a mother and homemaker and worked harder than anyone we knew. In short, there is an academic veneer, that doesn’t quite cut it for all women.

    Were it not for the feminist movement, we would not have had many of the career gains we enjoy today. In addition, men would not have found their strength as parents.

    However, on the political end, there is a stridency or a lemming attitude at times about what feminists should believe and what they shouldn’t. Unfortunately, you have two ends of the spectrum: NOW and on the conservative anti-NOW side, Concerned Women Of America. CWA does not see itself as feminist, however, gauging how utterly independent, opinionated and bossy they are, how could they not?

    I think the Hillary supporters who are voting for McCain are reacting devoid of any understanding or support of issues. Hence, they are as stupid as the old guard, which voted for people based on race and sex.

    And frankly, while the McCain camp welcomes their votes, believe me, they’re the object of a lot of snickering.

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