Is Barack Obama black or biracial?
by Carmen Van Kerckhove
Check out Jen Chau and other folks from Swirl weighing in on the question!
(For those of you who are newer to Racialicious, Jen and I started New Demographic — and this blog — together.)
Trackbacks & Pings
Comments
-
If he wins he’s biracial - if he loses he’s black.
-
@ Kali:
I agree.
Goodness = Whiteness
Badness = BlacknessThey probably will play up his biracial identity, and subtly hint toward that factor being what won Obama the American vote (if he wins). More emphasis may be placed on his white heritage, given his background. I wonder what would happen to his family. Will there be much mentioned about Michelle’s side of the family? Where she came from? Where she grew up? Or will the main focus be on Obama’s Caucasian side of the family? Will most people just forget that his father is African? He’s already assumed to be black, but there will probably be an identity shift if he wins. I get the feeling that he may not care either way.
-
I doubt it will work like that.
And let’s not forget that this blog started off as Mixed Media Watch
-
LOL, Kali I’m thinking the same thing!
-
He refers to himself as black, so I accept that. I have a similar racial makeup to Obama, and I choose to identify as multiracial, but I also talk about my blackness. It’s really not as simple as choosing one easy label; that’s sort of the point. I think, as a politician in particular, that he knows that people look at him and see a black man. How else could you explain the people who think he is racist against whites because of his church? They clearly do not recognize his whiteness. I think it is up to the individual to define themselves, and he has chosen the term black, so that is what I use when I talk about him.
I also find it really amusing that the media is suddenly talking about biracial and multiracial people like we’re this strange new phenomenon they’ve never heard of before. One of the local Chicago newspapers had an article about mixed race people on the front page recently, and the article was this silly race-mixing 101 piece. I showed it to my friend who is 1/2 white and 1/2 Filipino, and was like “look! We’re trendy now!”
-
I agree with Kali.
-
Jen forgot to close out the Facebook tab. Funny.
On a serious note, John McWhorter and Glenn Loury had a brilliant chat about race re: Obama and the November election on Bloggingheads a few days back. McWhorter questioned how much race actually matters in the political race versus how much the media wants race to matter.
Drama means ratings, and I too wonder how much of this is constructed around Obama for view counts and ad dollars rather than a real curiosity about the nature of race and multiculturalism in America. It all just seems so surface, as if the only answer that matters to anyone is what a Sunday newspaper headline about Obama should read.
-
LOL Kali.
I thought that Bi-racial rhetoric, first and foremost, supported the notion of being able to self identify? So since he is very, very clear about he fact that he is a Black man, is it really a question?
Obama says he is Black. Does the media have the right to question that? It could open a whole Pandora’s Box. I wonder why this wasn’t really brought up during the coverage of Halle Berry’s historic Oscar win? Usually, people don’t question whether or not she should be named the first Black woman to have won an Oscar for Best Actress.
-
i watched this video earlier today. i think the comments made by the Swirl members where spot on. we need to speak to the racial reality fo the u.s. most interpretations/oppinions of what obama should or shouldn’t call himself have been “a-historyical.” i support addressing the “identity” issue instead of the “post-race” ideal; b/c identity and heritage are not always one in the same. our experiences shape our identity and heritage is the ancestral parts of us we did get to choose.
-
LOL@Kali. Do tell.
This should be an interesting topic…
IMO, I feel that he is Biracial but most importantly it is how he defines himself. I’m not in his skin.
I do hope I should be so lucky to meet him someday.
-Sandy
-
Kali - I was thinking the same thing!
-
Omg. If people still have to ask, maybe they don’t need to know. :/
-
i think he’ll be considered black whether he wins or loses. tiger woods, who’s also pretty vocal about his multiethnic background, is still considered a black golfer even if wins or loses the Masters.
i think there are many people in this world who will only see him according to his skin color (and his name) regardless of how he self-identifies.
-
“If he wins he’s biracial - if he loses he’s black.”
Oh, no way. If he wins it’s, “You’re still talking about racism? Give me a break. We have a BLACK PRESIDENT, for Christ’s sake!”
-
I think I may have misread the intentions of a couple of the comments so i’ll ask - was the “biracial = white = good” a dig at media or mixed race people? If someone IDs themselves as mixed race it shouldn’t be automatically assumed that they’re trying to garner an advantage from their ‘whiteness’. What the media intends when they label someone is another story.
From the media standpoint they should ID Obama as he chooses and from what i can gather he identifies as black so i’d question the motives of why the renewed focus on his identity - they might be trying to get back to the “is he black enough?” question.
Media bumbling on this issue is not only in america though, there was a thing a little while back with multiracial (read: black&white) footballers in england who identified as bi/multiracial but the media would only ever refer to them as being black and they wanted to be acknowledged as multiracial. I think they lost that battle and continue to be referred to as black - which to be fair doesn’t offend them, they just wished their identity would be fairly acknowledged.
-
What I’m curious about, is how he is/will be characterized in places outside the U.S., such as Brazil, where racial identity is more complexly defined than in terms of the “one drop” rule.
-
It is interesting to contrast the reactions to Obama’s self-identification as Black to those of new NAACP president, Benjamin Jealous’s similar self-definition. Jealous’s self-identity in particular reflects a long history of Black folks who *could* self-identify as something other than Black because of their appearance chosing to stand in solidarity with other African Americans.
This tradition, I think, is behind the mistrust on the part of some who self-define as Black of those with Black ancestry who claim a bi- or multi-racial identity. I cannot think of any society where creation of a govt/societal-recognized mixed race group results in more rights, respect, etc. for the darker-skinned people in that society.
But then again, ours could be the first I guess. Perhaps that is something else that Obama’s campaign can accomplish: an examination of multi-racial status that does not create a new hierarchical position a notch higher than “just Blacks” (or other minority designation).
But that may be asking too much of the Senator. It’s a lot for many Americans to digest the complexities of race in Black and White, and (as we have seen) too much for many to see the complexities of intersections of race and gender. Adding multi-racial stuff on top of that just might make our figurative national head explode!
-
Kali, you win at the internet.
He’s considered biracial as long as it can benefit white people. Of course his white side of the family will be played up because it makes white people feel better to know that part of the reason that he is president IS because he’s part WHITE.
Anything that is too black is considered as being too much of an issue here in America. Too black is considered as problematic. Blackness is not valued nearly as much as being biracial is.
Don’t you know? America wants to dilute some of that blackness!
-
and it did not take my {sarcasm} tag. wtf, comments.
-
@Kali - Exactly what I was thinking. Just like Wanda Sykes’ joke years ago about Tiger Woods when she observed that he lost some blackness with every major win… but if he ever does anything worng the media will say, “Black Golfer Arrested!”
-
“If he wins he’s biracial - if he loses he’s black.”
LMAO!
Thats messed up though.
-
I agree with thesciencegirl he calls himself a black man so I am rolling with it.
The thing is though I am pretty sure he would not come close to winning the Dem nomination if he identified with being mixed. I think that would of given pause to a lot of black voters and killed his chances.
It’s not the same with Tiger Woods, there are no other black golfers on that elite level so he still gets tagged as black, if there were other black golfers that played well, we would all be calling him Cablasian or what ever that term was.
-
The man is black. Period. Dot. Leave it alone.
Anyway, you slice it Barack Obama is a black man. “Biracial”/”Multiracial” …what black person in the western world isn’t?!?! Shit, Oprah Winfrey, the most powerful woman in the world is multiracial, genetically. So, should we debate her racial origins or if she should really be called “black”?
If Obama’s not black, then Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., Malcolm X, Walter White, Oprah, Martin Luther King, Jr., Henry Louis Gates and hell, every other African American achiever isn’t “really black”. You know why?
They all have known European or non-African heritage, that’s why.
Black in the western world = “mixed”/”biracial” by default so why debate it? What’s the point? What else do we have?
And how come no one debates if Eurasian celebrities like Keanu Reeves or Rob Scheinder or the Tilly Sisters or Vanessa Anne Hudgens are “really Asian or biracial”? Hell, they’re all seen as general white people!!!!
But black folks who “made it” should have their blackness questioned, neogiated, or examined??!?!?! Because we’ve “transcended that god-awful trait of blackness”?!?!
Gimme a break!!!!
-
Um, why does he have to be one or the other? He is both. Self-identifies as a Black man, with biracial parentage. ‘Nuff said.
-
A,
Since when is “biracial” valued when it doesn’t even really exist when you’re black?
I’ll say it again, Obama is black, to question or debate that fact, says a lot about how blackness is valued in this country.
-
Barrack HUSSEIN! Obama is neither biracial nor Black. Barrack HUSSEIN! Obama is an Arab, and therefore Barrack HUSSEIN! Obama is a sympathizer of terrorists.
Sadly, I’ve heard this rhetoric before. And that’s including using Arab instead of Muslim.
-
#23– He’s just as black as he wants to be known. You’re arguing that people of mixed heritage don’t have the right to claim all of their ancestry; that’s the classic “just one drop” definition.
People have the right to self-identify.
-
The man calls himself a black man an acknowledges his white family what is there to debate?
I wont argue with that.
Besides it’s not like there are pure blood
(non African) black men running around the United States for this to be that big of an issue. -
#26 You really should not use Muslim either.
-
Queerhapa and Mike said it perfectly. ‘Specially Mike. Did slavery not happen? If so, then we can debate the “purity” of a black person’s blood. But since it didn’t, we shouldn’t.
And has anyone read Dreams Of My Father, Obama’s autobiography. That should answer any questions about Obama you have. Especially about his blackness.
And to the poster who challenged my original post, Obama “identifies” as black and he is, so what is there to debate?
-
He is black, he considers himself black and some people need to accept that and get over it.
Regardless what he claims, I think many non-black people will always see him as a black man (in good or bad) just because he has a black wife. I have a suspicion if she was non-black, white or ambiguous looking, they would readily see him as “biracial” as in having an accepting attitude towards him
(imho, the term “biracial” regarding black and white heritage has almost now become a loaded term that usually represents one having a non-affirming attidude towards blackness. That’s one of the key reasons this term is comforting and acceptable for most whites to tolerate). I have the highest respect for Obama, he choose not to go that “easy” route.
And for those that disagree with me… I always wondered if the white race was the race mostly denigrated, disrespected and considered inferior among so societies around the world, would so many of these black “biracial” people be so quick to claim “biracial” status or correct others when they are “mistaken” for being just black? I doubt.
All that really matters to me regarding race, is the fact that he has an obvious black wife, and he loves and adores her. It’s about time the nation sees a black woman as being loved, respected, and cherished by a powerful man.
-
He is Bi-racial a women of European decent can not produce a child of African decent..
If that was the case we wouldn’t have these racial problems in the 1st place..
Yes he claims to his black identity which there is nothing wrong with that but he is still Bi-racial..
-
La,
If Obama had a non-black wife, he wouldn’t have even been considered for a Democratic nominee let alone won the damn thing.
(Even if he did, he’d be just another example for women like you to tout off when you argue that sucessful black men don’t marry black women.)
Other than Clarence Thomas, what black male political figure has had a white or non-black spouse?
Very few.
Harold Ford, Jr. is the only one I can think of at the top of my head and look what that did to his career.
Obama is a black man. If anyone has heard the brother speak or read his book, you see where his heart and consciousness is at.
To be debate otherwise, basically exposes ONE’S attitudes towards blackness, not his because he knows he is.
Did he ever debate it???
-
Also La,
“Biracial” doesn’t really exist when one is black in this society.
Where do you get the idea that whites just love the “idea” of “biracial” when most whites (consciously or unconsciously) DESPISE the idea of interracial marriage/dating between blacks and whites and the idea of white women/men giving birth to black kids???
And most blacks who come from black/white unions usually identify as black beacuse that’s exactly what they are, no matter how they slice it.
Black is black. Remember that.
Mod Note - J, please keep in mind that this site was Mixed Media Watch, and both founders identify as bi-racial or multi-racial. While you may say “black is black” there are many who would disagree. Please clearly indicate when you are speaking from your own experience. - LDP -
Tiffany wrote:
“He is Bi-racial a women of European decent can not produce a child of African decent..”
Says Who?
That man has one black parent, says he is black he is black, damn what his momma looked like.
I agree with J if his wife was anything but black his run would of been dead before it even started.
Boy I could hear black women and IR blogs burtsing blood vessels in there head with “I told you so” right now if his wife was white.
-
As a matter of fact if I was him I would walk around with a mask of Michelle Obama’s face just to leave no doubt.
-
I hate to keep replying but some of this comments confound me.
Tiffany,
Read my first post on this particular thread. All those black achievers that I listed. Are they not “black” to you since they, like any western black person, has DOCUMENTED non-African blood? Are they “biracial” in your mind too? I mean, Malcolm X’s mother (for example), while black, had much European blood. Is he “biracial” in your mind too? “Because a European woman can not give birth to a child of African descent”???
What about me? I’m a proud black man but my mother has a fair amount of Portuguese and other non-African blood (although the Portuguese are known like many Southern Europeans to have a fair amount of sub-saharan African blood). Am I less of a black person even though by definition, I AM multiracial (like you and any other Western black person).
You guys talk about the one drop rule but that “rule” is the reason why most black Americans (and most people overall), no matter their apperance or past ancestry, do NOT see themselves as multiethnic.
Why are we debating someone’s blackness when it’s inane and illogical to do in this part of the world?
Despite the other threads of ancestry, I’m black. Obama’s black. Malcolm’s black. Oprah’s black. We’re all black ….(Everyone comes from Africa at the end of the day anyway.)
To be black means to be of SIGNIFICANT or PREDOMINAT African descent. Period. Dot.
-
@J :
Well said man. I have 2 brothers, a sister and a nephew that are “biracial” , and they have always identified as being black . They’ve never had a choice one way or the other.
@thesciencegirl:
I can’t wait to tell them what your friend said; If you can get that article to me I’d appreciate it!
I can’t believe we don’t have anything better to talk about.
-
as i always say, people should be left to identify as they personally see fit
obama has brown skin and african features, and could never pass as white. and as black people themselves know quite well that we come in all different colors, with all different hair textures and body types, we could hardly see him as anything other than black. if no one knew who obama was or anything about his family, they would treat him as a black person, a black man in america, hence his taking that title seriously and to heart.
-
J, you are, IMO, seriously oversimplifying the issue of racial identity. One fallacy with your (unoriginal) argument is that there is a big difference between having some European or otherwise non-black ancestry and having a parent who is a different race. My experience as a woman with a white mother is not the same as the experience of a black woman whose great-great grandfather was a white slave owner. It’s just not synonymous.
You haven’t lived my life, so what makes you think you get to apply your oversimplified dichotomous classification system to me? It’s presumptuous and arrogant.
-
Brian Johnson,
In Brazil, Obama would be white due to his high socioeconomic status. The only ones who are black are those who have predominant African phenotype and a low socioeconomic status.
-
um CL,
obama would not be considered white in brazil, trust me. they don’t just base their race classifications on class status…wtf?they would prob just identify obama is biracial (mulato) or simply as dark featured (moreno). in brazil, your racial category depends on hair type, skin color, and other immediate phenotypic markers…and trust me, no one would call obama white there except a blind person.
also, everyone, stop relying on brazil as the exotic land of racial mixing and skinny bikinis. they have just as many complex race issues, if not more, than our own country has. they would still identify obama based on his phenotype (their physical features), especially if they knew nothing about him, just as we identify people by their phenotype here in the US.
also, your comment about blackness in brazil is ridiculous, sorry. people in salvador, for example, a city that is predominately made up of people with african ancestry, are incredibly proud of their history, and you will find even lighter people on the black spectrum calling themselves “black” (negro or preto, though these terms are highly contested…and sometimes, one or the other is considered offensive, depending on the region and the person using the term) because they want to embrace that aspect of their heritage (much like obama saying…i’m biracial, but identify as a black man).
so while i could identify simply as black in salvador, people might look at me sideways if i identified simply as “black” and not as some other moniker that more accurately describes my appearance and racial heritage. hell, someone from canada whom i met recently said she wouldn’t have considered me black whereas at home in the south, my only possible options are to be thought of as a lightskinned black girl or maybe someone who is “mixed.”
CL, i don’t know if you have ever been to brazil, but even so, take some time to learn a little more about their history before you making sweeping statements about their racial identities. brazil is a huge country with a ton of racial and ethnic diversity, but also a ton of diversity of thought…and that should not be ignored.
-
I still maintain it’s not an either/or question. Okay, how ’bout this:
Socially, Obama is Black. It’s how he identifies, and it’s how others in this country with our messed up history of one-drop rules perceive and treat him.
Genetically, he is biracial.
Culturally, dude goes beyond biculturalism, even. He’s the poster-child for multiculturalism, given his mixed-race family, growing up in Hawaii and Singapore, (former) membership in Rev Wright’s church, etc. etc.
-
First of all Carmen I apologize for my glib, jokey, untrue comment at #1 which seems to have derailed this discussion quite a lot.
@the sciencegirl and J
There is no such thing as ‘race’ in the human species from any scientific point of view. The concept of race especially the term ‘Caucasian’ was introduced in the EIGHTEENTH century (forgodssake) by a German intent on proving European/White supremacy. It was partly based on the thoroughly discredited pseudoscience of phrenology (the shape of your skull for chrisssake!). This will offend some: from a scientific point of view all dogs however different they *look* belong to the Canine species. They are no races of dog.One cannot deny the reality of differing cultures/ethnicities which in this country at least seem to be less important than skin color falsely clothed in the false language of ‘race’.
And that is why so called multi-racial/biracial (in reality multi-ethnic) folk like those in the video are so puzzled by society’s attempt to pigeon-hole them.
Most of us in long-term ‘mixed’ relationships know that once the front door is closed on the world outside that there is no ‘categorical’ difference between us and we can thankfully stop subscribing at least in our private time together to the FALSE notion of race.
Of course, the perception, prejudices and the behavior of society outsied, where the priveleged (more or less in every community in the world) work 24/7 to retain that privelege makes for a heart-breakingly unfair world.
Given this reality allowing Obama his stated Black identity at least in the public arena redresses the balance to some degree. Ther is no more priveleged position in the eyes of ordinary people than being the Leader of the Free World. His mother and grandmother (never mind their pseudo-race) made him what he is today - if he is mindful of his African heritage and embraces his Black identity this must be true on part to thier upbringing.
Which brings me to my inevitable conclusion:
Women, of every color and ‘race’ should rule the world!
We are hard-wired to nurture and to strive for equality and fairness and survival of children: and everyone is some mother’s child.So shoot me for saying that…
-
Wendi Muse,
Thank you sooo much for exposing the true, complex nature of racial politics in Brazil. A lot of Americans’ ideas of Latin America racial categories are so skewered but hey, they get the information on such matters from the media, not from actual experience or first hand knowledge.
I’ve personally known a few Afro-Latinos were didn’t look like what society would think a black person looked like but guess what?
They still proudly proclaimed their blackness.
The vast majority of people of significant or predominant African descent (Black folks) live in Latin America. We need to hear their stories and varying perspectives more.
Now Scienegirl,
I see you missed the point.
Of course, some recently mixed blacks like yourself would have varying and/or unique experiences as a black person from a black/white or black/non-black union but that doesn’t make you less of a black person or make your personal racial/”identity” trials that distinct from the overall Black experience.
If you actually read what I typed, you’d see that I find the idea of questioning and scrutinizing a person’s blackness based on who they’re related to as pointless, stupid and inane. Most blacks are gentically mixed with European or non-African blood (in varying degrees), it’s just part of our history as Black people in the Western world so … why challenge or neogiate someone’s blackness because they have known non-African blood?
That doesn’t make much sense. It’s a total contradiction.
That’s what I was clearly saying and I don’t see how anyone can miss such an obvious fact.
I think so people try to make themselves more distinct than what they really are for their own various personal reasons.
Kali,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, race is a biological myth.
We all know that. But it is a VERY REAL social concept. One that affects lives, how people view other and most importantly, how people view themselves.
If not, then we wouldn’t be debating an obvious black man’s racial identity and this blog wouldn’t exist.
Yeah, race doesn’t exist in reality and it shouldn’t but BOY, does it exist socially …in a very real way!!!
-
@J:>If not, then we wouldn’t be debating an obvious black man’s racial identity and this blog wouldn’t exist<
There is nothing ‘obvious’ about his identity - as my “mixed race” offspring would be the first to tell you. This question would not be posed on *this blog* if it was as cut-and-dried as you seem to think it is.
You make the same mistake as the so-called ‘Whites’ - of pigeon-holing people and rationalizing the irrational. You must also have your own ‘personal reasons’, as do I, for even commenting on this blog.
Let us follow the lead of the mixed-up
young people in the video and make a start in trying to think out of the box. -
Kali,
Good luck on that. “Thinking outside of the box”. Sounds good but if you think that’s going to happen in the US, you’re woefully idealistic.
Obama is obviously black and you know it and if no one knew about his parents, there would be no debate about his race even if like ANY western black person he had non-African heritage by default.
Like I said, race is a very REAL social concept that affects many crucial things. What you and many other of the posters on this blog are talking about seem to have this specious idea that re-constructs race as a personal choice or a debateable topic.
Okay, that’s great for you psychologically.
But like it or not, society already knows what race people me, Obama and every other person of significant/predominant African descent is! No matter what we “identify” ourselves as. And that’s far more relavant than our own personal beliefs, which only work for ourselves.
Obama and me, despite any non-African blood, are black men. How are we not? Anyway you slice it, we are black people. Debate about that obvious fact all you want but facts are facts.
-
Good job Kali! And by the way J #45 what does “people try to make themselves more distinct than what they really are for their own various personal reasons” mean? Are you saying that people who claim their multiethnic background only do so because they want to be special? I hope thats not what you mean. Why should a person of mixed ancestry have to deny their background just to make others feel better?
-
Hi Kali. I’m not really sure why you addressed comment #45 to me. Did I say something to make you believe that I don’t understand the historical construction of race as a social construct?
-
oops… I meant comment #44.
-
So, Momo (or anyone else for that matter), if I wanted to identify as “multiracial” or “Portugublack”, would you give me the respect of honoring my self proclaimed racial identity?
Am I denying my non-African blood by calling myself a black man?
Please explain to me because I’m a bit confused by some of your reasoning here.
-
J, I understood your point; I merely disagree with it. Don’t insult my intelligence. I just think you’re wrong. I’ve heard the same arguments that your putting forth many times before, and I find them lacking.
I’m curious as to how you know that my “personal racial/”identity” trials” are not that distinct from the overall black experience. You know nothing about my history or experience, nor about my culture, nor how my physical appearance impacts the way others view and treat me. There are certainly many overlaps between my experiences and that of any black woman. This is why, as stated in my first comment, I identify as biracial and yet also talk about my blackness and how that is a part of me and my position in society.
I do not identify as biracial for some deep-seated personal issues, because I fancy myself superior, or because I want to be a unique, special snowflake. I am simply claiming all of what I am. You certainly don’t have to accept that. Some people do not. But perhaps you should stop for a moment and listen to others who have different experiences from you before assuming that you know the best way to classify everyone else.
-
Momo,
people should be free to self-identify. There are the extremes of completely-influenced-by-societal construscts and uninfluenced-by-societal-constructs in making that choice. Most people are somewhere in-between.
I have personally heard some mixed people say they enjoy it when people give them complements based on their “unique” features or wished they had additional “unique” features. For example, hazel/green eyes or straighter hair. Others have expressed discomfort w/ recieving praise that may be based on the racial hierarchy of beauty.Calling yourself a POC when you are mixed w/ European is a political and social choice.
Maybe that’s the conflict- monoracial/cultural/ethnic people have a group they belong to but have to aim for “uniqueness” in other ways, while some IR people are uncommon combinations and may have more difficulty finding a cultural group to belong to.@ queerhapa- I agree
-
Can anyone answer the question that I asked on comment #51?
To Sciencegirl,
Your comment basically backs up my entire point. See, what I’m saying isn’t merely opinion. It’s basically a fact that many recently mixed blacks like yourself can back up. (And they do). Why can’t you admit that? How you “identify” your race (something that society does since race is a social construct not a personal designation) is just that, what YOU identify as. Your sense of self is not autonomous. And society’s evaulation of your race is far more relevant than your self declared ethnicity.
Now, can anyone answer the question that I asked in comment #51????
-
Calling yourself a POC when you are mixed w/ European is a political and social choice.
So is calling yourself “mixed,” “bi-racial,” etc. Or “feminist” or “womanist” or “progressive” or “conservative”… Any act of self-labeling is a political and social choice.
-
@thesciencegirl
I was meaning to agree with and reinforce your arguments but got side-tracked.@J
We would like to continue to hear from you.Some of us are idealists who believe that encouraging dialogue is often the beginning to solving inequities.But please, keep the discourse respectful and cut out the amateur psychoanalysis.
-
Also Scienegirl,
There is no ONE black experience. Your experiences, my experiences, Obama’s experiences all comprise it.
To be black is to be of significant or predominant African descent.
If you fit this bill, then like it or not, you life experiences contribute the collective black experience.
Every black person is different. But doesn’t make one’s experiences invalid or so “distinct” that they’re something else.
-
@J. -
if I wanted to identify as “multiracial” or “Portugublack”, would you give me the respect of honoring my self proclaimed racial identity?
If your genes back it up, yes. It is not for anyone else to claim your background for you. If I decided to identify myself by 1/16th of a part, people would look at me strangely but it is my right to do so.
Society’s evaluation of blacks, J, was originally 3/5ths of a person. Was that correct? Should we have not campaigned for full rights to personhood just because society had decided we were lesser than?
Mixed kids are going to define themselves and change the way that race is understood. And as a monoracial person, I’m fine with that.
Someone identifying multiracially is NOT a threat to my blackness. A lot of people identifying multiracially is not a threat to blackness as most people who identify multiracially are doing so to honor all parts of their heritage - not to exclude one part or another.
If you haven’t already done so, please go listen to the Addicted to Race podcast (#90) where Matt Johnson discusses his journey from identifying solely as black to understanding the variations in the black experience to finally (currently) embracing the term mulatto as it more accurately describes his experiences.
Finally, please note that “truth” is informed by experiences. It is not something universal that you can apply to others. You need to take a step back and realize where they are coming from.
@All -
I did not know this post was going up, so yesterday kind of shocked me in terms of what comments were coming through on this thread.
I had hoped that by doing a series on interracial dating we could start working through a lot of these misconceptions. However, it appears that it is not working.
I did learn one thing though - I was not aware until I started blogging here about how much multiracial people go through in terms of identity, regardless of how they present themselves. Multiracial readers, Carmen and I are discussing the best way to handle this.
But please know one thing - hearing and respecting the voices of multiracial people is a cornerstone of this site and will remain so. I am not sure how we got here, to rehashing the same conversations over and over again, but we will not be here much longer.
-
I really respect your opinion Latoya.
But I have one question.
Ok, so I embrace my multiracial identity and my Portuguese genes as well, right.
I then declare that I’ll call myself multiracial or Portublack because that’s what I am.
I’m not denying my blackness and I’m threatning anyone else’s blackness, I’m just declaring myself the identity that I can rightfully call my own.
NOW
If I’m driving a shiny new Porsche in a ritzy, all-white neighborhood at 9 PM and a cop pulls me over. Do you think that my multiracial self-identity or Portuguese genes will alter the cop’s opinion of me, if he’s stops me because I’m appear to be black?
But I’m not “just” or “really” black, I decided to embrace all of my heritages and call myself “multiracial” which I and any black person am/is.
How about if I go to a loan office and declare that I want to check out multiple boxes on the forms or declare myself “other” even if the loan officer percieve sand treat me as they would a black person, since that’s the part of my heritage that is most visible?
What if someone calls me an anti-black slur? Should I correct them and tell them they’re just attacking one part of me? Call me a Portuguese or European slur too, right?
So, you see, I’m defining my racial background in an accurate way that I see fit.
But am I changing how people view race or how they view me?
If I think I’m “multiracial”/”Portublack” but the world keeps seeing me as black and treating me accordingly…
Who’s right? And who’s wrong?
Is my self-identity REALLY changing how “race” is viewed? Or it just a name I call myself?
-
J. -
The “how do the cops see you?” question is old as dirt and not really relevant to the discussion because…drum roll please…everyone is not treated the same by the police. As Matt said, his black but close to passing self will have a different experience than you.
Barack Obama identifies as black and biracial. Because he is both. His identification in society stemmed from a lot experiences, probably best summed up with the title of that Newsweek piece “When Barry became Barack.” At some point, he choose an identity that more closely resembles what we would call black.
However.
Barack is one person. You are one person. And if your identity and upbringing were different, you would be singing a different tune.
So, let me pose a question back at you:
Say you were raised black, in a black neighborhood, with a parent that identifies as black, have mostly black friends and dated black men all your life. You relate to black issues and call yourself a black woman.
And yet, people refuse to accept your answer that you are black because you *have* to be something else. They continually probe into your background because you have to be mixed. You are continually challenged on your identity because your skin/hair texture/eye color is not considered acceptably black and other blacks wouldn’t necessarily claim you on the street.
What would you tell them?
That society says that because they aren’t black, they aren’t? Fuck the parent that raised you? Fuck the causes that you identify with? Fuck your political identity? Fuck all the racial spy moments where people openly tell you how much they hate blacks because they don’t see you as black unless you tell them?
Are you saying, J, that if someone multiracial happens to “pass” for another kind of group then they should take that designation because that is what society claims?
Oh, and if you have an answer, please let me know - the person I described is my best friend.
-
J: THERE ARE MORE RACES THAN JUST BLACK AND WHITE.
There are more combinations than just black and white. A person of partial black heritage won’t necessarily “look black”–they won’t necessarily display that phenotype. They might look “white” or “Asian” or “Native American” or something in-between everything. Thus your definition that people who look black are black would indicate that they aren’t really black. But that doesn’t mean they can’t lay claim to their heritage.
If someone who doesn’t “look black” can lay claim to their black ancestry, then someone who does “look black” can claim their non-black heritage. It works both ways.
But OMG, stop talking about being black versus being white like those are the only two divisions out there.
-
Great response Latoya,
I see that like many of the other posters on this particular thread, you nicely danced around the questions that I asked …I don’t blame you/y’all because they are answers that people who think like you guys can’t answer because it collapses your whole idyllic theory.
No disrespect. Everyone has their own opinion.
But by not answering the questions or changing the subject or attemping to flip the script, you/y’all are basically giving credence to the solid position that myself and many recently mixed blacks have.
Now, based on the scenarios that I posed above, does my new self-identity really change the way people look at race if they just see me as black and treat me accordingly?
Who’s right? And who’s wrong?
Are they “one dropping” me and piegeonholing me by “only seeing me” as black? But then again, I am of significant African descent, so are they wrong if they see me as black man???
Is your friend of significant/predominant African descent? If so, then she IS black, whether she embraces it or not.
People may question one’s sexuality but if one knows that they are straight, should they start partaking in gay sex or call themselves gay when they know they are hetrosexual?!?!
Obama has always said that he is a black man. AND HE IS!!!! What is so hard to understand about that, people? I know you guys want to rebel against that evil “one drop rule” and break away from the other blacks and you want a black man who has recent mixture to be your messiah but ….it’s not working like that.
He’s never called himself “biracial” and if you read his book, he tells his clear life story of a BLACK MAN coming of age, not a “half white” or “mixed” one …because that doesn’t exist in the real world when you’re black. He never lived his life as a white person EVER. And never will. So if he’s living the black man’s experience and by American standards, is black , then what’s there to debate???
And another question that many posters skipped over was this:
How come Eurasian celebrities don’t get their racial origins dissected or analyzed or questioned when they do great things????
Would we be having this conversation if a German and Japanese dude ran for president?
I think we all know the answer to that (or do we?)
This thread and this question that it (inanely, in my opinion) asked is NOT about Obama, it’s about how blackness is viewed in this society.
When a black person makes it, “they’re above black”. “They’re not really black”. “Are they black?”
That’s what this is all about. We can deny it and put our heads in the sand all we want but let’s just call it for what it is.
-
J,
Perhaps you can define for me what “significant” African descent means. Is there a certain percentage cut-off that only you are aware of?
Further, I never claimed that there was one black experience. That’s clearly not true. I only referred to “the overall black experience” because you did. But if you are suggesting that the way society views me determines my identity, then your conclusion that I am black is erroneous. I would either be black, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Indian, Saudi Arabian, Cape Verdean, or any other number of things people have assumed me to be, depending on the day, my hairstyle, whether I’m tanned, or the perceptions of the viewer.
I personally feel that a person’s racial identity has 2 major components: their self-identification and the way they are identified within their society. The societal aspect could change based on geography, politics, social trends, etc. It is the aspect of their identity that most perhaps colors the way people treat them, but it is fluid, based on assumptions and stereotypes, and not necessarily accurate. I am not claiming all of my racial heritage because I somehow think this excludes me from anti-black racism; it certainly has not. But my status as a person of mixed race has always affected the type of treatment and prejudices that I experience. Just as people have hated me for my blackness, so too have they hated me for representing the mixture of 2 races. Trust, there’s a whole slew of racial slurs for mixed people that I get to experience on top of the anti-black slurs. We talk about how race is a social construct, and how nevertheless it is real. The point I am trying to make to you is that the social construction of my race is not the same as that of a person who is black (though there are overlaps). I’m not quibbling over ancient history here; like you, I am talking about my current experiences. For instance, I have distant Native America
heritage (something like 1/16), but that has no bearing on my life; I don’t know what tribe it is, or any NA culture, or anything like that. I know it’s a part of my history, but it’s not really a part of my racial identity. But that is a very different thing from the way that my >50% white ancestry is a part of me. My appearance, my family, my Italian-American culture, etc. are a huge part of my identity, as well as the way that society views me, and to claim otherwise is nonsensical.Why does it bother you so much how other people identify themselves? You seem very passionate about something that has no bearing on your life.
-
Kali said,
“If he wins he’s biracial - if he loses he’s black.”
So very true.
________________________________
La said,
“I always wondered if the white race was the race mostly denigrated, disrespected and considered inferior among so societies around the world, would so many of these black “biracial” people be so quick to claim “biracial” status or correct others when they are “mistaken” for being just black? I doubt.”
Excellent points la, very thought provoking.
___________________________________Mike said,
“I agree with J if his wife was anything but black his run would of been dead before it even started.”
I don’t agree, maybe if she was white. but him having a Latin, Asian or mixed wife wou ld have made non-black and white people trust him more. They wouldn;t think he’s just looking out for black people. They wasn’t going to pick on her like they do Michelle either.
_________________________________
J said,
“if I wanted to identify as “multiracial” or “Portugublack”, would you give me the respect of honoring my self proclaimed racial identity?”
Only if you look the part. Then it’s obvious you’re dodging being black.
_________________________________
I also agree with Wendi about the race class in Brazil.
-
J. -
There was no dancing. And now, your responses are starting to piss me off.
Is your friend of significant/predominant African descent? If so, then she IS black, whether she embraces it or not.
Please read what I wrote. My friend identifies as black. It is society in general that challenges that, based on how she looks.
Where is her narrative in the scenarios you keep spewing?
And re: When a black person makes it, “they’re above black”. “They’re not really black”. “Are they black?”
Who is asking those questions? Establishment. White media wondering why Barack is black - which is why Jen was on there in the first place - and (if you remember back when this first started) black establishment asking all the questions you posed - with a lot of people coming down on the side that Barack is NOT black, most notably Debra Dickerson.
The point is - society is wrong.
Barack identifies as black and biracial. He made a conscious choice to embrace his black identity and that narrative more than a multiracial one. But that does not dilute his heritage. And regardless of what Debra Dickerson says, pundits say, white people in West VA say, the only person whose answer matters is Barack’s.
-
@Latoya
I think that J like your best friend, like you, like me, has an aching desire to ‘belong’.The trouble is we expect people to choose just one *racial* identity and exclude the others.
To me Js question is much like that of mixed-race kids: which part of me can I acknowledge and which part do I have to deny.
WRT the ever-growing population of Happas today: historical ancestry is not as compelling as immediate ancestry. Having two parents right there on your radar - people you love and identify with deeply is *viscerally* different from having remote genetic forbears from a different race . One can *intellectualize* one’s response to the latter but not to the former.
Here is food for thought: I grew up in India being part of the mainstream. I had a very few friends of British extraction whose families stayed on after India became independent of England. Their parents were secure in their European-ness but these kids, my friends, ached to be Indian, to be accepted and to belong with their Indian friends. I have never forgotten the pain of their struggle to straddle two cultures.
-
@Vodalus I totally agree…even with the presidental race all you hear is Barack is getting the black votes and blah blah blah the white votes…but what about everyone else? People call America the melting pot…but for alot of people it just black and white.
@ Latoya I can Identify with your friend i’m black and people always ask me what I’m mixed with. I identify with black because thats how I was raised. If anyone says well I thought you were ____ because you have_____ I just explain to them my make up since they want to know so bad but at the end of the day my parents look black and I just got the features of certain family members in the past.. but I wont deny them, because without them I wouldn’t be here.
@ J let people call themselves whatever they want… its their life. If I said I’m Black, Cherokee, and White I’m not hurting anyone nor am I trying to sound “extra special” . If I called myself Black I’m still not hurting anyone because thats who I am, but if I wanted to identify more with my Cherokee roots I should be able to without someone giving me grief about it. I have family members from the Cherokee Nation I can talk with them. I have learned cultural things from them so if I wanted to tell the world that I also have Cherokee blood running through my veins I should be able to. Why…because its my life and my choice. -
Okay,
Answer this question, Latoya, that you appeared (doesn’t mean you did, just seemed like it) to dance over:
“How come Eurasian celebrities don’t get their racial origins dissected or analyzed or questioned when they do great things????”
And you know …you never did answer the other question that I posed multiple times before:
“Now, based on the scenarios that I posed above, does my new self-identity really change the way people look at race if they just see me as black and treat me accordingly?
Who’s right? And who’s wrong?
Are they “one dropping” me and piegeonholing me by “only seeing me” as black? But then again, I am of significant African descent, so are they wrong if they see me as black man???”
I didn’t ask about your friend and since she is of significant/predominate African descent, she is black and correctly (IMO) sees herself as such. So …?
And where has Obama ever declared himself a “biracial” person? Any quotes?
-
If I think I’m “multiracial”/”Portublack” but the world keeps seeing me as black and treating me accordingly…
Who’s right? And who’s wrong?
I’ve been reading this thread with many conflicting thoughts to your posts. I’m assuming your limiting yourself to a US perspective on race, as concepts of race are not steady worldwide. Yes, in the “Western” world/countries where blacks are present, “black” carries a negative weight for the most part, some places worse than others. But what if you were to place yourself within an environment where your race would not be an issue, then how would your raised scenarios play out (and as I type this, I see that Latoya has raised a similar, more detailed scenario, raising another issue into the conversation)? Would others’ perception of you physically matter then?
I identify as an Afro-Dominican. Genetically, I’m predominantly of African descent, the Spanish/German/Lebanese /etc. pieces are mostly in the background. And I admit, there are political and cultural reasons beyond genetic as to why I make sure that I insert “Afro-” in there, due to 1) the continual denial of African roots and contributions to what the Dominican Republic is and me embracing them, 2) as well as the anti-black/Haitian sentiments and atrocities committed under the dictatorship of the mid-1900s, which only added on to the denial of blackness/African roots within the nation.
Yet, the US will never view me as a person of African descent (only if I let my hair airdry, then the “are you mixed, are you half-black?” questions will follow), as the US’s perception of Latin@s is very homogeneous, as demonstrated throughout the immigration debates and during the primaries (”would Latinos ever vote for a black person?”). Combining both African/Afro + Latino is still a shock to most people here. So where would that leave me?
The way I see it is that I self-identify myself. I have no intentions of influencing the way that race is viewed in this country as to my views of others in general are very cynical. Hypothetically speaking, if I were to achieve that here, and then move to, say Spain, then there goes another conversation on race and perception, where I am actually viewed as an Afro-Latina in its broadest terms (not necessarily in the most positive ways, however), or if I move to DR where I viewed as of “better” quality, due to lighter skin and lesser coarse hair, etc.
And as I end this (I’m so slow with writing these things up), I see that Latoya posted another post, and summed up a lot in one sentence:
The point is - society is wrong.
Ditto.
-
@Kali -
Yeah, I can feel that. But some people don’t really feel like straddling. To them, they are this one thing. And I think the multiracial experience can capture that as well.
You can understand and appreciate both sides of your background, but culturally identify with one over the other without being self-hating, I think.
But then again, this is painted by my experiences - where my multiracial friends see blackness as a refuge because it allows for so much variation. My uncle, who is multiracial, solely identifies as black because that has been his whole experience up to this point. He is aware of his Latino background but everyone who has been important to him and most of the places he’s been have been black.
So I guess I am more sensitive to the “I am confident in my identity but others are trying to challenge it” side of the debate than I am with people arguing that there have to be set boundaries for everything.
-
Kali, you describe this perfectly, “Having two parents right there on your radar - people you love and identify with deeply is *viscerally* different from having remote genetic forbears from a different race.” Yes, exactly.
-
@J
Let me turn your question around. Why do you call Eurasians Eurasians? That is the same as saying they are biracial. So why then are you arguing that anyone with one-drop of AA blood must declare themselves black or be damned.To all:
As for Obama even if his mother was African American he would be the product of widely different ethnicities and cultures, the pigment in his skin notwithstanding. -
“How come Eurasian celebrities don’t get their racial origins dissected or analyzed or questioned when they do great things????”
And which ones are you talking about? Keanu Reeves? (Sorry Carmen!
)Depending on who you are talking about, it goes two ways:
1. The black/white racial dynamic predominates all conversations about race in the US. Even now, it is difficult for other minorities to get anything close to equal airtime.
2. There actually is a lot of dissection going on, a least to tell by the searches that lead here. But many celebrities are in the entertainment industry and they aren’t really making huge contributions to society beyond pop music or some cool movies. So there is a difference of degree of achivement.
But even then, Eurasian celebrities like Maggie Q often find themselves blocked from succeeding here because they are “too Asian” and end up going to Japan, China, Korea, or Hong Kong to try to make it in that kind of industry.
If you can name more specific people, I’ll give you a more specific answer.
“Now, based on the scenarios that I posed above, does my new self-identity really change the way people look at race if they just see me as black and treat me accordingly?
You in a vaccum? No. You choosing your identity along with hundreds of thousands of other people? Yes. After all, everyone isn’t thickheaded. If you tell someone, “I prefer to call myself xxx” generally they will defer to what you ask. Why do you think they changed the racial classification for the census (and other forms)? One day, they just decided it would be cool to add a new bubble?
There is a limit to how much can be done at the individual level. However, there are many people on an individual level who are pushing forward the ideas into the national consciousness. The more people that choose to self-identify, the stronger the idea gets, the more pervasive it becomes.
Are they “one dropping” me and piegeonholing me by “only seeing me” as black? But then again, I am of significant African descent, so are they wrong if they see me as black man???”
That assumes your features lead them to “see” you as a black man. What if they don’t? Are you still not black because someone thinks you look Italian? Because most people think you look Ethiopian? Spanish? Asian, when you’re really a Latina?
I didn’t ask about your friend and since she is of significant/predominate African descent, she is black and correctly (IMO) sees herself as such. So …?
You still aren’t reading. She identifies as black. She has been IDed as many other things, depending on the way she wears her hair. She is not of predominant African descent. Her mother is a fair skinned black woman. Her father is a fair skinned Guyanese man. She doesn’t really look like any one race, which is why people tend to ask her what she is - or make an assumption. You have failed to provide an answer for what people do when how the look and what society perceives as their race conflicts. Particularly when they already have a racial classification that they are comfortable with.
And where has Obama ever declared himself a “biracial” person? Any quotes?
Have you read the transcript of the race speech?
@L-K -
Exactly.
-
Latoya, will you or any of the other posters answer the questions I posted above multiple times?
“How come Eurasian celebrities don’t get their racial origins dissected or analyzed or questioned when they do great things????”
And in the scenarios I posted above, who is wrong? And who’s right?
To Sciencegirl,
I could give two damns what someone identifies themselves as. I’m just asking that people LIVE IN REALITY. That’s something that seems to elude people.
Yes, yes, yes, you have a right to call yourself whatever. But …you can’t act like society’s views doesn’t really matter or are irrevelant. In actuality, it’s the other way around.
Yes, it’s an uncomfortable truth. It may reflect very poorly on American society. You may have a point there. But for better or for worse, it’s just how it is in this world.
But I do know that many of the posters on this site have a much different position on issues such as “racial identity” and that’s fine. I do know that someone like me who sees myself as a realist, can rankle some people with my much more concrete, yet highly realistic approach to such matters. But a good debate or sharing of ideas is always a good thing.
To Tudie (?), trust me Obama would still have his scrawny behind in Illinois if Michelle wasn’t black. Name a black male politican who didn’t marry a sister who prospered in his field.
And only if I look the “part”, eh? But that’s going against what our friends on this site are saying. Society shouldn’t define us, we should define ourselves because society is wrong and their perceptions of our race doesn’t matter.
Right? Right? Right?!
-
@J. -
You are two seconds from being banned from the conversation, because at this point, I am getting the impression that you are only here to advance your view, not to interact and learn.
This is a warning. And probably the last one.
And if you want people to answer your questions (as I already did) you need to start answering theirs.
-
>I do know that someone like me who sees myself as a realist, can rankle some people with my much more concrete, yet highly realistic approach to such matters.
J: Here’s “concrete” for you - I’m black/white first gen biracial, with 5 traceable ethnicities in Western Europe, Western Africa, and Bermuda (which really means a mix of both of those). I was born in the 70s. And I do NOT look or pass as black to just about everyone. So I ID as biracial, always have, and I, like Latoya’s friend, have been assumed or outright accused of being everything but what I am. Under your “realistic” worldview, who should determine what I look like (I’m an ARP contributor, so my pic is googleable)?
Do I go by my fellow preschoolers in the 1980s who thought I was part-Japanese or Chinese? (those slightly slanted eyes are from my African-American grandmother)
Do I go by the rental employee giving me a tour of an apartment who assured me that it was easy to tell the maintenance from an intruder because they all had Spanish accents, and then did a double take and said, “I’m sorry, are you… do you speak Spanish? I didn’t mean…” (I told her it was OK, I knew what she meant - and I did, she wasn’t saying speaking Spanish or being “Spanish” was a BAD thing. I also didn’t answer her unspoken question about my ethnicity)
Or,
Do I go by my new boyfriend’s mother who asked her son later after meeting me, “She’s not Mexican, is she?”
Do I go by the guys who needed to know what I was before they decided whether they wouldask me to dance? OR the ones that thought, “What are you? Oh, that’s different!” was a good pick up line?
Or do I wait until I’m stopped by the cops or others in authority positions to determine how I am to functionally identify in this country?
Or do I identify MYSELF, based on personal experience, factual information, and personal preference, and demand that I be taken seriously as a person, as a woman, as a mother, as a citizen, and TO HELL WITH the person trying to (mis) identify me, or for that matter, stereotype my beliefs, actions, or behavior based on that identity? In orther words, sticking up for myself and for everyone’s right to self-identify.
Or do I ask your permission/opinion first?
-
J- what are you talking about?.All you have to do is look at ANY articles written about biracial or bicultural stars in the Asian media to see that they do. Some even take it a step further and break it down between ethnicities– I have yet to see an article on Takeshi Kaneshiro that DOESN’T mention that he is Japanese and Taiwanese. Crystal Kay is always mentioned as being Black and Korean. They always manage to stick in the “1/4 Native American” when talking about Tadanobu Asano. The list goes on and on.
-
I read damn well Latoya and that weak attempt to flip the script by bringing up your Black/Indian friend was the same tactic that you used on Gregory A Butler when he correctly told it like he was on a much earlier blog thread this year.
As a black woman, you know what’s up. I mean, you can’t be that dense.
I understand that the people on this blog and across the internet believe in this whole “multicultural” concept to get away from the “one drop rule” (i.e. blackness- call it for what it is).
But guess what, you people are in the minority.
And America just will never embrace a multiracial identity especially when African blood is in the veins.
We all know that. I mean, c’mon now.
Let’s live in reality!!!
Talking to a lot of you people is like talking to a brick wall. People are going to believe that they want to believe even if they know that it’s not logical or that it’s not the truth.
This is the main reason why we can never have a real discussion on race in this society:
We don’t face unbiased reality.
(P.S. Latino is not a racial term, it’s a demographic term. There is no Latino look. Also, Ethiopian is the epitiome of Black African so that’s not being mistaken for another “race” when you’re “ambigiously black”.)
Mod Note - Banned! -
@All -
I assume that everyone is here on Racialicious to challenge racial (and racist) assumptions, to play a part in expanding the discussion, and to help create the world that we want to live in.
And America just will never embrace a multiracial identity especially when African blood is in the veins.
We all know that. I mean, c’mon now.
Anyone holding views like this needs to step aside and get out of the way. The world will change, with or without your consent.
And while I am happy to work through complex racial issues, I refuse to waste my time with people who cannot accept that change starts person by person, small shifts in thinking that add up to large actions.
Defeatists don’t really have a place here. And anyone content with the way the world is, you can find another blog to keep pushing the status quo on.
ETA: Oh, almost forgot - virtual door to the left.
-
Latoya
Hope you banned him from writing but not from reading.
We may yet teach him something! He has a lot to learn…Mod Note - We always ban people from the conversation. If they wish, they can still read the blog and even start their own blog to comment on the things we discuss here. [Example: Cynthia C]. But I don’t really see the point of allowing someone to continue to antagonize the blog when it becomes clear that they aren’t hearing other arguments.
And, keep this in mind - we don’t really have a safe space kind of blog set-up, but it disturbs me as many of our multiracial readers have stopped commenting here, due in part to people like J. This used to be their space. So that bothers me as well. - LDP
-
Kendra asked, back in #2,
>Will there be much mentioned about Michelle’s side of the family? Where she came fromSen. Obama is using that currently; I just watched his economics speech on Pams House Blend, and he talks about Michelle’s father in law (disabled with MS, but still able to hold a decent job in a plant.) So it is being mentioned - now, does the MSM care, is the question.
-
Well, that was fun.
-
@thesciencegirl
High five!@latoya
I agree you should have banned him earlier - he was just being an exhibitionist and likely misogynist - judging by all the ‘inanes’ and ’stupids’ that were being bandied about. -
Latino is not a racial term, it’s a demographic term.
I wouldn’t limited it to just a demographic term, but that’s not the way it’s viewed in the US. We can thank the government for starting that mess.
And wait, I thought we were having a discussion of other people’s perception of race particularly within the US, so considering what the term “Latino/Hispanic” has become in the US, shouldn’t it be fair game as well? And someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the term “Asian” mostly in reference to one’s location as well? And Eura/o? So, what about your Eurasian question, then?
But guess what, you people are in the minority.
Hmm, be in the minority or accept what others believe? Ehhhh, I prefer to be in the minority, thanks!
-
Oops, sorry, just read the banned notice. Reading is indeed fundmental!
-
Good riddance.
I too am disturbed by the hostility to multiracial identity that comes from some commenters. LDP and I are working on how to address that going forward. If you all have any ideas, email us at team@racialicious.com.
-
UGH.
The “one drop rule” was instituted by a White Separatist IN THE FIRST PLACE due to the increasing power and wealth the “Free People of Color” were getting in areas like LA and Atlanta. That would be because that law had absolutely nothing to do with genetics or race and everything to do with fear and keeping a power structure that was slowly eroding.
What absolutely SLAYS me is the same people who fight to keep the one-drop rule alive are the SAME PEOPLE nine times of ten who would argue with you and say “No, you’re not ALL Black. You’re mixed with something else…TELL ME NOW WHAT IT IS!” as if someone is giving out 100 dollar bills if they guess correctly.
-
@Lyonside
Loved your *concrete* broadside response to J. -
The Bakersfield Californian (newspaper) is looking to interview multiracial families (through marriage or adoption) for a story on the trend of using multiracial families in advertising. The article is scheduled to be published Thursday June 12. If you know of any multiracial people or interracial couples who live in Kern County, California, and are willing to be interviewed and/or photographed, please call (661) 395-7372.
-
The title of your article speaks volumes. How about “Is Barack Obama white or biracial?”
I thought so.
-
Geez, that was some read from where it started. I’m not as active, and to be honest as well-informed as a lot of regular commentators on this site but for various reasons have found the blog a bit dissapointing comments-wise recently (posts still thought provoking though!!). I put it down to americans all being sleep deprived from the marathon election season and thought it would calm down a bit, but apparently not
But anyway i’d thought i’d speak up and say i appreciate both Latoya and Camen’s willingness to try and keep this space friendly to multi-racial ppl, it’s how i found this site in the first place & would be dissapointing to see that change. -
Man I thought this post was dead, but back to the topic, Mr. Obama refers to himself as a black man while still acknowledging his white family, that is fine by me, considering the mixture of blood of Black Americans that does not seem to be something that needs to be debated. At least not in the press.
What I find funny is how this is brought up now that he has locked the Dem ticket. It sounds like the writers of history are already pouring a big tub of bleach to dip him in if he wins.
I dont like the racial drafting that goes on in this country, I have a half white brother and I would not like to think about him having to clarify himself to blacks or whites, and from the tone of some the comments about this topic, or to the multi racial selection commitee either.
I leave that choice to him, Ive warned him the world will not see eye to eye with him.
As for J he was a little heavy handed with it but he has some very valid points.
-
hm, this has been a very thought-provoking (and lengthy) read. yeah, i know i’m here really late, and probably no one will read this. now i’m pondering a question: is it really possible for a multiracial person to identify as only as one race, and still totally acknowledge all of his ancestors, of both/all races? as someone who has been raised to believe that respect for one’s ancestors is paramount, this is a very interesting topic to me.
-
mogs - that is a great question -
“is it really possible for a multiracial person to identify as only as one race, and still totally acknowledge all of his ancestors, of both/all races?”
there seems to be two different needs at play. one to honor a (series of) historical moments. and another to just have control over one’s individual (in the now) identity.
-kerrita k.
-
J you won’t win that argumenton this site, SURRENDER, SURRENDER, Brotha. LOLOLOL
like John Lennon said it best in the song “God”God is a concept,
By which we measure
Our pain.
I’ll say it again.
God is a concept,
By which we measure
Our pain.
I don’t believe in magic
I don’t believe in I-Ching
I don’t believe in the black church
I don’t believe in Tarot
I don’t believe in Gaye
I don’t believe in Jesus
I don’t believe in Kennedy
I don’t believe in Panthers
I don’t believe in White
I don’t believe in Jackson
I don’t believe in Obama
I don’t believe in King
I don’t believe in Shabazz
I don’t believe in Stewart
I don’t believe in Morris
I don’t believe in America
I just believe in meAnd that’s reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?But now I’m Eric.
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on
The dream is over. -
@mogs
You hit the nail on the head.
My view: If you think of ‘Black’ not as a race but as a social/group descriptor then yes, ofcourse you can be of mixed-ethnicity (Ok, biracial) AND Black. However, you cannot just declare yourself Black, at least some people already in this group must accept your claim to membership. And *appearance* is key - not so much traditions, language, culture or even ancestry,
The confusion arises when all the centuries-old baggage about race kicks in and we think of it (wrongly and not just IMHO) being something authentic and non-negotiable like age or gender.
My story of English-Indian friends growing up at #66 was recounted to illustrate this. If my friends were not so ‘white’ in appearance they would have blended in without a problem and still kept their European roots. Folks from neighboring countries to India can cross cultures easily - and invisibly in a sense - and do!
So the key in some part is *appearance *- and how intelligent or humane is that. Just because this is the case right now does not mean that it cannot change. And it was not always so in the past. Reports from travelers to other parts of the world were full of awe and excitement.
When people learn another language or live in another country (as Obama did) it is considered *additive* ie it does not subtract from your previous experience or language acquisition.
Yet we insist that people must choose between their cultures or group-membership as if it has to be rationed in a miserly way.
I believe that when there is real and perceived equality of power and privilege between ‘races’ there will be no racism.
That is why the election of a black president is so important and hopefully transforming. -
Hi, I’m also jumping in late here, and I mainly have 1 (maybe 2) comments:
1) The term “Eurasian” really bugs me. I think the preferred term, at least by those who self-identify this way and/or work in mixed-race studies is one of the following: “mixed-Asian,” “multiracial Asian” and sometimes “AmerAsian” (although that also has its problems). “Hapa” used to be really popular and is still used by quite a few mixed-Asians, but it’s also become problematic due to its etymological roots with Hawaiian language/culture and the sense of indigenous appropriation/misuse associated with the term (see Wei Ming Dariotis’s excellent essay on this in in either Hyphen magazine or the Mixed Heritage website).
And to answer J’s question (if he’s still out there), a LOT of people–including academic types (of which I’m one) do interrogate the identities of mixed-race Asian American celebrities and everyday people. There are several websites and books and active blogs that talk about these issues (and many others). In other words, your question, to me, does not seem innovative or provocative because the answer is yes. If you (or others) don’t find that this gets discussed in mainstream media/blogs–welcome to my world. Asian American discourse, in general, is severely underrepresented in popular culture and mainstream media.
2) In DREAMS FROM MY FATHER there is a refrain in the second half of the book where Obama recalls a phrase from one of his Kenyan aunts with respect to a point she was trying to make about Obama’s father: “If everyone is your family, then no one is your family.”
So maybe this is in response to commenter #93 if s/he is still out there. Identity, especially “racial” or “ethnic” identity is so tricky and complex. And flexible. So I would say that yes, Obama, at this point in his life, identifies as a black man with a bi-racial or multiracial background. And there are many people who may seem to be choosing a singular identity but who are also, in their own way, simultaneously embracing multiple affiliations and honoring multiple ancestors. I don’t think it’s an either/or choice–I think some in society, like the cop who pulls over a dark skin person–may want to make it seem like racism dictates our lives. It impacts it, certainly, but we have to be free to claim who we are–not out of a sense of naivety or privilege but because it seems like fundamentally, this is just a basic human right–to claim our own selves.
-
The issue of biracial vs. monoracial identity in America is obviously very tricky. I will probably say a few things that have been commented on previously on this site, so bear with me. In addition, I am talking primarily of black / white identity and the U.S., another caveat.
The U.S.’s long, sordid past / present of race relations is one built on hierarchy and racial ranking, with the primary poles identified as white (top), black (bottom). Adding new categories or identies doesn’t necessarily break this hierarchy or redefine it; these new identities are just placed within the existing structure. White will still be top, black will still be bottom, and multiracial will be a refuge that some (formerly black) people can take from America’s negative definition of black. That is, unless biracial people actively work to define their identity and place in society for themselves by resisting the underlying racial hierarchy.
This is one point that didn’t seem to be addressed in the argument between J and the other commenters, even though this point is implicit in J’s irritation with and (fear of) biracial identity. This point of the enduring racial hierarchy and the possible incorporation of biracial idenity in it is also implicit in the topic of this post and the first few comments. If Obama is successful in his presidential bid, he is viewed as biracial. If Obama is unsuccessful, he is viewed as black. This idea highlights the fact that in America presently, biracial identity is being used by the media, and those with racial privilege, to carve out a space for some POC while also maintaining the dominant paradigm of black=bad.
On a side note, to thesciencegirl, as you want people to be respectful of your identity as biracial, you should show some respect for the complexity of the mixed racial history of black people in America. Although a black person who has grandparents of multi-racial identity does not have the same direct experience as someone with two parents of different races, that black person’s mixed heritage is just as valid. Dismissing it as a case of someone whose “great-great-grandfather was a slave owner” owes as much to the dreaded one-drop rule as does the person who insists that that black person should only identify as black.
In a related question, if Obama is multi-racial because his mother is white (and thus has the direct experience), what are his daughters? Are they multi-racial also? This is just the sort of tricky distinctions and the grey area that applies to many black people in America.
-
@socstudent
I don’t think I was being disrespectful of people with more distant white ancestry, so I apologize if it came off that way. And my intent was certainly not to assume how such people should identify. I would hope that my comments indicate that I think each individual has the right to self-identify; I was making that argument for all people, not just myself.
Further, I was merely stating that it is a DIFFERENT circumstance to be the direct result of an interracial union and to have more distant mixed heritage. I think that perhaps it is easier to dismiss or choose not to claim more distant heritage (as many African Americans do) than it is for me to do so. I was merely making an observation on why I might identify differently than such a person, not assuming how they should identify.
I absolutely see that there are grey areas. I reside in one. And I have given much though to the specific scenario that you brought up. How will my kids identify if I marry a black man? A white man? Another race entirely?
BTW, I brought up the example of the great-great-great-whatever as slave-owner because that is a part of my history as well. My father (who is black) has white and native american heritage from the era of slavery. I wasn’t trying to be glib by using that example.
-
i dont think j should have been banned
he speaks for many
-
@C-Love,
Well, he can continue to speak on another blog.
As I said many times, we don’t mind dissent.
We do mind people not engaging with others and not being respectful of differing viewpoints.
If your point is that important, you can find a way of making it while engaging with the other people who are commenting and being respectful of views that are not your own.
-
racial tolerance means understanding that this new found pride in being multiracial may make plain ole “black” americans feel like yet again…we are less special simply because we are all black. We unfortunately dont know our heritage (for the most part)…..and no one has EVER apologized for that. Im sorry…yes in 2008 im not over it. Ive never felt it was okay to simply be black….and now…the first man that identifies himself as black has got the dem nominationa and all you multi-racial, mulatto, white and everything else want to attribute all the things that are good about him to something other than being black. Not saying his color makes him special, but only a colored man could have sat quietly while white American played the games it did during the primary election.
Not sure if race is a social construct or in my head as many of you like to say (sophistry)……but multi racial ppl got the color of black ppl, but seem to not have inherited the pain…..you are lucky and cursed at the same time.
and for the record…most black ppl in America are multiracial….
im sick of all the multi-racial talk.
call yourself whatyou want. I wish that my proud and intentionally black people would learn to love the other proud to be “plain black” people.
Let others be…..
-
@ C- Love “all you multi-racial, mulatto, white and everything else want to attribute all the things that are good about him to something other than being black.”
That is not the point of the conversation here, though I can see where the frustration stems from. If you saw the video, you would see that all the representatives from Jen’s program, Swirl, all agreed that they support Barack’s choice identify as black. (CNN was trying to pose the question in a different way.) In addition, one of the members of Swirl (Lynda) noted that while she is biracial, she could never identify as white. She made clear that the racial reality of the United States is such that often times, your identity is chosen for you.
So, I feel like this conversation was somewhat misguided. People reacted to the title without watching the video. And people are reacting to their limited experience with multiracial identity, and not what it has become today.
As I said before, I am a black woman and I identify solely as black. Most of my friends who are mixed also identify more with their non-white side. But it was not until I started blogging here that I understood that the right to self-identify is not always an escape from blackness. As some of our commenters and other bloggers have noted, there are a multitude of experiences that occur if you are biracial. They want to be able to speak truth to those experiences as well.
I have no doubt that there are people who want to use the idea of a multiracial identity to try to escape from the concept of blackness. But our commenters, the publisher of this blog, and the people over at Swirl don’t hold that view.
And they deserve a voice as well.
-
People reacted to the title without watching the video.
I agree. The video is definitely worth a viewing. I also recommend a recent segment of NPR’s “Tell Me More” http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91375775
-
i tried to post from work earlier, and something happened and it didn’t go through.
anyways, obama is mixed. however, from where i stand, he doesn’t seem to embrace it.
and as a mixed person, i’m disappointed.
i wish more mixed people would feel some pride about being mixed, instead of looking for ways to hide it.to J, who continually beats about “anyone who is part black is black”, you need to chill.
i’ve been identified as many things in my life, the biggest is “indian”. i am not part-indian, but, by your reasoning, i should identify as indian because that’s how most people see me.
there are also a lot of white people with black ancestors, do we start calling them black too?
what about the white people that say they are 1/32 cherokee or something?identifying as mixed or biracial is how you identify with your family. it has nothing to do with running away from blackness, asianness, etc.
-
Agreed. -_-
Obviously someone who has a mixture of Black, White and Indian ANCESTRY (ie: Most Black people in America) are in a different place than the person WITH ONE BLACK PARENT AND ONE WHITE PARENT. They aren’t “running from Blackness.” What I don’t understand is the people who feel like how someone else’s self-identity is taking something away from them because it’s not. Be proud of whatever you are.
this new found pride in being multiracial may make plain ole “black” americans feel like yet again…we are less special simply because we are all black.
You have no idea how sorry I am that you feel this way. Having pride in being biracial has absolutely nothing to do with making Black people feel “less special” and EVERYTHING to do with being able to identify one’s self and the refusal of letting others do that for you. There are a hell of a lot of special things about being Black, and how some other person self-identifies shouldn’t take away from how you personally feel about yourself. ~_^
-
technically speaking, Obama is any color you want him to be. Even purple.
http://sycologist.blogspot.com/2008/06/barack-obama-black-or-white.html
-
I am a white/american indian decsent man. I have 1/4 of Cher0kee Indian blood in my gene pool. I associate myself as being White. Is that wrong? I don’t think so. Although I do not embrace the Cherokee culture in which my grandmother was of full blood descent, it doesn’t classify me as being solely white either.
I agree with the mod in the fact, you are who you associate yourself as being. If someone who is Black/White associate themselves as being White, is that wrong? NO! But, you can rest assure that Black culture would attack that individual based on the basis that their skin tone is dark. There are many double standards that I see today. Thoughts?
-
The truth is that race is a social construct created for economic exploitation and gain. Genetically there is scientific proof that there is but one race and that is the human race. (Ex. blood type A/ you can only receive blood from a person with universal O or A. You can get this from someone of any other race that has the same blood type/ because all human blood has the same composition. The one drop rule was instituted so that the offspring of plantations owners ( with Africans )would not have the same legal standing as whites. Otherwise they could sue, be free etc. I have a friend whose mother is aisan and indian and her father is black and white. Please pray tell me what nationality she is (American) my point. Nationality has to do with where you were born. Almost all Ameircans have more than one nation in their viens. That is the uniqueness of being American. But we all belong to one family—Humanity.
-
Race in America is more of a social cultural identification that gives people leverage depending on which group you are a part of. There is no social leverage in being black. But what people really mean when they speak of race is their sociological identity: their norms, way of thinking and identifying. My first cousin who is a fair skinned African American (with two black parents) had one of those test done to determine his heritage. The gene pool identified him as a white man. I laughed because he was shocked to find out after all his black struggles he was suddenly white according to the genology test. I found it all rather amusing. He does not look white by any stretch, maybe mixed. But this is how foolish this race issue is in America. It is designed to endorse one group of people and disdane another.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Pop + Politics : Blog Archive : The Obama biracial question on 17 Jun 2008 at 11:06 am
[…] CNN: Is Barack Obama black or biracial? Racialicious commentary Stereohyped […]
Bring back my body to me at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 02 Jul 2008 at 5:42 am
[…] In a CNN video that Carmen posted a few weeks back, Obama discusses how he is read as black, and other mixed race commenters discuss how, due to the colour of their skin, identifying as anything other than a mixed person of colour is not an option. In America Barack Obama is a black man, and there’s nothing that anyone can do about that. […]