Has Class Trumped Race? Part 5 - Discussion Summary at Racialicious

Has Class Trumped Race? Part 5 - Discussion Summary

by Latoya Peterson

What I been through ain’t nuthin new under the sun
just lettin’ you know that it’s a new day
still struggle the same
the trouble’s the same
I’ma save every dollar till I make a change
You know I dig through the ashtray to make that change
I give a bum a dollar hope to make a change
Sweat on my blue collar, never see no change
I pay more but my w-2’s still the same

Politicians gonna tax ’till the well runs dry
Shells gon’ fly
death in the East paid by
hard-working, tax paying, non-votin’, unspoken
everday damn people the government can’t notice

You focus on the fact that I can’t do the math
And you call us “underclass” cause we don’t finish class
But we won’t finish last, broke begging for cash
when I make more than you, you can kiss my ass

– Far*East Movement, “Blue Collar Blues”

So, this is technically the end of the Has Class Trumped Race discussion. I still have a couple more posts planned on the subject - a discussion around why people in poverty have to be superhuman (taking their kids to cultural events and the library and other learning enrichment activities on their days off, working two jobs and going to school, practicing excellent spending and credit habits, switching to a vegetarian diet and cooking meat-free meals with a shortage of supermarkets…) and another one about the MTV True Life Special “I’m Dead Broke.”

I’ve learned a few things with this series. One, I need to finish the whole series before I post, so that I don’t have a three month gap between conversations. Secondly, I am not sure if the format worked - I wanted to break down a huge conversation into smaller bits, but people kept skipping ahead, so I am not sure if that is going to work.

So, readers, I open the floor to you. What did we miss? What aspect of poverty should have been discussed? (I have an inkling in the back of my mind about poverty and school but that’s not even an idea yet.) What do you want to hear more about?

Trackbacks & Pings

Food for thought: Issues of privilege » The-F-Word.org on 02 Nov 2008 at 6:00 pm

[…] Part 1: Understanding Privilege Part 2: Interpreting Privilege Part 3: Acknowledging Privilege Part 3.5: An Aside Part 4: The Question Part 5: Discussion Summary […]

Comments

CVT wrote:

Definitely would love to hear your thoughts on the public-school-system as it relates to class. Something along the lines of middle-class teachers working with kids below (or at) poverty line . . . you know the story.

As a middle school teacher, this one would be particularly interesting to me (to get an “outsider’s” view).

Posted 12 May 2008 at 8:38 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

I’d like to see comparisons between the intersection of class/race in America and in some other countries.

The word “caste” is associated only with India in popular speech. But taken more broadly I think it applies to many societies. I have read some essays on “castelike minorities” that are very insightful and interesting.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 9:13 am ¶
Indie wrote:

It would also be interesting to do a comparison of poverty in the past generations to the present generation.

I think the generations before us had much more obstacles to overcome in addition to the poverty, and they fought through all that to leave the present generation with more freedom, what will the present day generation leave the next one.

I met a really wonderful African American lady on a different site that we both are members. She is about 60 and we started to communicate off line, what a life she has lived, and to this day, her life’s work is improving her community. She said that when she went to high school, there was still segregation and they were schooled in a two room building, of the 45 students in class, 42 of them went to college and to this day are involved in their communities.

Is it possible today to have that ratio of a graduating black class going to college? The poverty level at the time was just as bad, so what changed? Have we failed those that fought so hard for us to have all the things that we take for granted today?

Posted 12 May 2008 at 9:55 am ¶
Miss Maxine wrote:

Indie, We had maybe 2 white people in my graduating class of 52 and we all went to college. (My high school was a private Baptist school)

It’s interesting… I’m black and I attend a mostly white private university. When I say I went to a majority black school, most people assume I attended an “inner city” public school and have one set of assumptions about me. If I say I went to a private school, people have a whole different set of assumptions… when (some) people realize both are true, they become really confused…

I would also love to read about Race, Class, and education.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 10:21 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:

@ Miss Maxine–you (sorta) took my answer.:-) If you wouldn’t my dove-tailing with it, how about a post about how certain races are perceived an synonymous with certain socio-economic classes in the US–such as white and Asian/Asian American=middle-class or wealthy and Black/Native American/Latinos=working-class or poor…even though the realities are far, far more complex and fluid?

Posted 12 May 2008 at 10:47 am ¶
Sewere wrote:

Hey Latoya, as you know I’m not much of a writer so I appreciate your breaking the series down to digestible thinking bits.

That said, I still don’t think that class trumps race. Both factors operate at different plains and intersect in others. In the field of public health, study after study African-Americans (and in some categories Native, Latino and Asian Americans) show that if you control everything else (education, income and even wealth) minorities suffer a higher burden of disease and thus lower life expectancy. Sidenote: This is why I take issue with approaching racism and/or sexism from an economic front.

This means, that in a field like women’s health (one of the fields that I study) health outcomes are strikingly different. The incidence (number of cases per number of people in group/occurrence) of low-birth weight for example occurs more often in African-American births than other race/ethnicity groups which is etiologically similar to the number of spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) and later poor health outcomes for the child. This is even the case for well-educated and monied black women.

I could go on and on about health outcome after health outcome but you get the general idea. The good thing is that this has spurred researchers to to approach the issue of racism and its effects on health outcomes in a more nuanced way. There’s a joint UCSF and Berkeley project on a qualitative approach to measuring racism, aptly called Measures of Racism. I’ve got a lot more to add but very little time. I will try and follow this up in the next week (hopefully).

Posted 12 May 2008 at 2:57 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

Sewere -

That right there. The point of the series was that class doesn’t trump race - they play into each other. Maybe I need to add a clearer, fact based conclusion to my “to write” list.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 3:02 pm ¶
queerhapa wrote:

Yeah but by saying that class doesn’t trump race, does that imply that race trumps class? I think you need to spell that out too.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 3:43 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:

It depends on whether we’re playing oppression bridge or oppression pinochle… or perhaps Oppression: The Gathering?

I don’t mean to be too flippant. These popular card-based metaphors are rather interesting, just like all the food-based names for race traitors.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 4:10 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

sewere, are you a public health student/prof? You have an interesting expertise - might you think of submitting a guest post to Latoya?

I have noted a tendency to geneticize health differences between blacks and whites in the US - partly because clinicians have noted that some diseases are more prevalent in blacks, or in whites. In some instances, there is genetic basis for observed prevalence (common variant of gene with altered activity more prevalent in one group than another). In most cases - not! Societally driven race and class stress doesn’t enter the equation for most layfolk, a lot of docs, and a few researchers.

So, the medical profession and allied researchers are having to address “how to define race?”, and race v. class issues.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 8:04 pm ¶
drydock wrote:

On the health question Vincent Navarro who is the director of public policy program at John Hopkins and former Jesse Jackson presidential campaign health chair, argues that class is the strongest predictor of health outcomes. He writes (i’ll paraphrase):

A black man is 1.8 times more likely to die of cardiovascular disease than a white man. A blue collar worker and is 2.4 times more likely to die of cardiovascular disease than a corporate lawyer.

He also writes (and I’m not paraphrasing):
…..Needless to say racism and sexism have enormous influence on health conditions of people living in the US and on characteristics of the country’s medical care services. But, they alone do not go to the root of the problem, which is class power………..Class mortality rates are, indeed, the largest mortality differentials in the US.

Sorry, I can’t link this article, which appeared in the Sept. 2003 addition of Monthly Review.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 9:07 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

@ Latoya

“That right there. The point of the series was that class doesn’t trump race - they play into each other.

Sorry about that I should have been clearer. I meant that for the folks who say class trumps race.

@ NancyP

sewere, are you a public health student/prof?

Yup, doctoral degree in public health.

You have an interesting expertise - might you think of submitting a guest post to Latoya?…..So, the medical profession and allied researchers are having to address “how to define race?”, and race v. class issues

Shhhh… We’re putting the final touches to a million dollar deal… and you’re about to disclose one of my upcoming posts/trade secrets…

Posted 12 May 2008 at 10:54 pm ¶
Joseph wrote:

This has been really thought provoking. I am still not clear what is gained by keeping “race” and “class” separate but it is interesting to hear a passionate discussion with many points of view. I also think it is really timely, with all of the focus on “hard working” lower middle class white people in this election.

I definitely want to hear more about health care and mortality rates and class/race in the follow up.

Also: I spit out my coffee laughing when I read “Oppression: The Gathering.”

I’m just saying.

Posted 13 May 2008 at 12:04 am ¶
jvansteppes wrote:

The title also implicitly begs the question, does race trump class? I understand that originally the allusion to a trump card was a reaction to claims by socialists [among whom there are always those who insist that class trumps everything…], but after a while it seemed like we were really being asked to take the question seriously.

Speaking of health, I would suggest a comparison of the American health system as it plays out among race/class lines and systems in other countries. In the US a family’s economic situation can be totally destroyed by a single illness or surgery.

Posted 13 May 2008 at 5:49 am ¶
Corbin wrote:

I’m not sure if I might have missed this from previous posts of message board discussions, but I think one interesting question to discuss is how class relates to the goals of POC movements; for instance, why did the US’s Civil Rights movement lose steam when MLK Jr. began working with Unions and focusing on issues of class? Could part of it be that middle and upper class blacks (not to mention whites) weren’t down with MLK Jr.’s critiques of capitalism and ideas of an economic restructuring of the United States?

Posted 13 May 2008 at 8:16 am ¶