Hip Hop & Patriarchy: My Struggle with Mobb Deep

by Guest Contributor M.Dot

It’s challenging to criticize hip hop publicly.

My rationale is that Hip Hop gets hammered by the popular media, so why should I contribute further to it?

When given more thought, I see this as a poor reason to avoid criticizing anything. As an athlete I know criticism is feedback and nothing is improved without feedback. Professor evaluations are feedback. Customer service evaluations are feedback. Feedback is in many ways the oil that greases the improvement machine.

However, my reluctance to criticize may also be related to the tendency within the African American community to avoid airing our dirty laundry. On balance, I also know that dysfunction
flourishes when concealed out of sight.

As a teenager and full-fledged hip hop head, I never listened to Miles because I learned that he beat Cicley Tyson and was unapologetic about it after reading Pearl Cleage’s “Mad at Miles.” I bumped Coltrane, Roach and Blakey, but no Miles. One day, a few years ago, a film Professor and jazz lover who I respected, asked me how could I avoid Miles and listen to so much hip hop?

It was then that I began to see that I would have some reconciling to do regarding gender and hip hop.

bell hooks provides a context to understand gangsta rap in the essay Gangsta Culture when she writes,

“The sexist, patriarchal ways of thinking and behaving that are glorified in gangsta rap are a reflection of the prevailing values in our society, values created and sustained by white supremacist capitalistic patriarchy. As the crudest and most brutal expression of sexism, misogynistic attitudes tend to be portrayed by the dominant culture as always an expression of male deviance.”

I was further challenged to write about hip hop critically when I read Matthew Birkhold’s essay on Hip Hop Dogmatisim. The essay reminded me that our desire to avoid criticizing hip hop because Bill O’Reilly and Bill Cosby do so frequently isn’t a reason for us avoid critiquing it. He goes on to say that if we avoid it, then we are similar to the white folks, and I would argue all folks, who refuse to acknowledge the existence of racism and for that matter classism that exists in American culture.

Birkhold wrote,

“Perhaps we are intent to hold on to a culture that has internalized the worst aspects of a racist, sexist, capitalist society because, as a generation, our identity is deeply rooted in hip-hop. This unfortunately means that a critique of the way hip-hop has internalized patriarchy must lead to a painful examination of the ways we have internalized patriarchy.
Despite the soreness this may cause, reflection and self-critique is necessary. In many ways, refusing to engage in this reflection mirrors the refusal of many whites to admit to collaborating with racism or acknowledging that America itself is a racist nation.”

I knew then that I had to say something about gender and hip hop even if it made me uncomfortable, even if there were some parts where I didn’t have clarity on all of the issues. I knew that there were some areas where I did have clarity and it is how women are perceived in hip hop and pop culture.

The majority of rap videos make it clear that hip hop is one dimensional in how it perceives, portrays and represents women. Turn on BET now and the evidence is there staring you in the face. Video Vixens, both aspiring and official are dancing and posing as the rappers talk about spinning rims, murder and cash. Pop culture is also one dimensional with how it perceives and represents women. The coverage of Britney Spears, Amy Winehouse and now Miley Cyrus is indicative of this. Furthermore, in Hollywood, the shelf life of actresses is a short one – the ideal is approximately 18-30 years of age. While there are exceptions to the rule, the general notion is that if you are too old to play Brad Pitt’s or Will Smith’s girlfriend, then you are irrelevant.

This brings me to the uncomfortable gray area. I see kids rapping “bitch this” and “ho that” on the bus and on the train and I know they must be terrified to be coming of age in a society that is indifferent to their existence. The evidence of this indifference is that there have been 20 school aged children killed in Chicago since September 2007.

This is astounding.

Twenty school aged children, murdered in Chicago should constitute a state of emergency for Illinois. That being said, I know that the children listen to the music and are affected by it. What I don’t know is how they are affected by it and to what extent they are internalizing it?

This leads me to the question of what does caring about this look like? Does it mean NOT listening to my trifecta of emcees, Mobb Deep, The Clipse and Ghostface, who in fact, inspire me to write stories? Does it mean listening to more gospel? More house, blues or jazz instead? Part of me wants to say that I am uncertain as to what caring looks like and perhaps I don’t need to know, completely right now. Perhaps being torn and in the gray area wrestling with these issues is enough as a beginning. My willingness to be in the gray area is connected to the fear that refusing to criticize Hip Hop was an act of concealing dysfunction. I want to take a sensible of approach and avoid “lets eradicate Hip Hop” stance.

However, another part of me wants to conclude that I find it difficult to let go of Mobb Deep because it is the dysfunctional soundtrack to the patriarchy within me. There is something to be said for finding Mobb Deep entertaining. These Black men are rapping about killing other Black men. Lately I have began asking myself and my peers what does it say about us that we find Black male murder entertaining when all of us have lost Black male friends and loved ones? When reflecting on it, I realize that I am arguably more able to enjoy the beats and the story telling because I don’t live amongst the kind of violence that Mobb Deep is speaking on. I did from 1989-1992 and I am still haunted by it. In a way, the music keeps me connected to that part of where I come from and listening to it reminds me that I will probably always have one foot in the hood and one foot in the future. On Balance, there is the possibility that listening to “Shook off the Realness” is nurturing something dysfunctional in me. Perhaps it is nurturing my survivors guilt associated that stems from the fact that I have made it out alive and so many of my peers haven’t.

It may be time to acknowledge that hip hop is both enjoyable and harmful. You and I both know that young girls see video vixens and want to be them. Getting paid off how you look is a serious grind. To young girls it looks glamorous. The cars, the jewelry, the stilettos, champagne. What these young girls don’t know is that there is severe inner turmoil involved with constantly being evaluated on how you look and having your income, your ability to pay your rent connected to these evaluations. What they also don’t know is that the Video Vixens are the only material members on set of the video who are not members of a union and because of this they receive an inequitable share of the profits in relationship to the value that they contribute. The cinematographers, editors, directors, the writers all have unions. As a union member your are guaranteed a minimum wage, health insurance and dressing rooms and meals in many instances as well. Vixens are both disposable and essential to the attractiveness and success of the videos. In fact, I would like to see three or four videos without the video vixens dancing.

Then of course there are the young men and women who hear rappers talk about selling crack, having money and attracting women and naturally they want to emulate the lifestyle. I know in my heart that little black boys go through a fundamental change between six and eight. At six they are warm, expressive and curious and by eight their eyes become stony, their jaws tighten and they well on their way to learning how perform black masculinity. While I know that hip hop most certainly isn’t single handedly responsible for this, a lot of our music doesn’t help our boys figure out what constructive Black masculinity looks like.

Continuing in the essay Gangsta Culture, bell hooks analyzes gangsta rap and feminism and makes it clear that the misogyny and patriarchy that we see in Hip Hop, is simply a mirror a mirror of the same that behavior that exists in popular mainstream culture. She writes,

“Gangsta rap is part of the anti-feminist backlash that is the rage right now. When young black males labor in the plantations of misogyny and sexism to produce gangsta rap, white supremacist capitalist patriarchy approves the violence and materially rewards them. Far from being an expression of ‘manhood’, it is an expression of their own subjugation and humiliation by more powerful less visible forces of patriarchal gangsterism. They give voice to the bare, raw anger and rage against women that it is taboo for “civilized” adult men to speak.”

It is time that we acknowledge that Hip Hop is harmful to young people who cannot discern that music videos are a marketing tool and not reflective of reality.

The joy that hip hop brings makes it easy to try and conceal the dysfunction within it. When something brings you pleasure it can be very difficult to acknowledge the harm that it causes others. Further more, as is the case with hip hop, I have to acknowledge that while Ghostface, The Clipse, Mobb Deep, all of whom would qualify as gangster rappers, all of whom inspire ME to write short stories, all of whom have been both patriarchal and misogynistic at one time or another. It has become apparent that I have put my desire to enjoy this music above the harm that it causes to young people. In many ways, hip hop is my friend. Like that drunk Uncle that Jay Z raps about in “Dear Summer”, “They like the drunk uncle in your family, you know they lame, you feel ashamed, but you love ‘em the same”. It is hard to consider not being friends with Mobb Deep after all these years. This is a poignant conclusion to come to and I have wrestled with it all day.

Part of the difficulty in acknowledging this about artists that we like is that once we say it, we are either compelled to do something or risk coming across as hypocrites who know better. The question becomes what do we do? Do we cease listening to the music? Do we work with teachers to create a curriculum that helps them use music videos to teach students about gender, capitalism and patriarchy? Do we continue to listen to the music and have these discussions and urge others to do so as well? Do we try to eradicate it completely? And if so what does that look like? Perhaps it will take a combination of all of the above.

I started this essay with the goal of writing about gender and hip hop and I have only ended it with more questions.

M.dot is a blogger based in Brooklyn and the Bay Area, she can be reached at m.dotwrites@gmail.com

(Photo credit: MTV.com)

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Trackbacks & Pings

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  3. For Colored Girls who Considered Homicide When Patricarchy was Enough « Becoming A Woman on 17 Jun 2009 at 2:47 pm

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Comments

  1. Cynthia wrote:

    I think you have to make the personal choice on whether you want to support a particular artist or not.

    Some people deem certain character flaws as more palatable than others.

    I think when it comes to children, you have to make sure that they have more than just one particular type of influence in their life. I listened to hip hop growing up but it wasn’t the only thing I learned or was exposed too.

    Kids need to be more worldly and self aware and you can’t expect that to come about by just sticking to one particular formula especially since you can see how that one formula may not be the best thing for them.

    Good post, though!

  2. Chica Dificil wrote:

    Thank you M.dot for this very thoughtful critique on Hip Hop & Patriarchy. There are three things I especially dug about this essay:

    1) There is no absolutle RIGHT or WRONG answer to the questions posed above. Just consequences (both good & bad) with the choices we make, even when it comes to the music we listen and support $.

    2) Highlighting the inequities and injustices of being a Video Vixen when it comes to pay and benfits, incl the emotional & psychological effects of being evaluated solely on the size of your breasts, bootie, and attractiveness.

    3) MOST IMPORTANT!!!! That the ultimate GANGSTA in U.S. society is our white supremacist capitalistic patriarchal system! I don’t think our young people (or people in general) truly understand this.

    Thank you! Excellent!

  3. Slush wrote:

    I really like to go out dancing. And I have this simultaneous problem that I’m kind of a righteous feminist and about 90% of the music offends me a lot. Often I don’t know all the words, but then the snatches I hear are still pretty appalling. And this is not just hip hop, mind you, but hip hop is a fair portion of it.

    On many occasions I find that, as much as I love dancing and just want to keep doing that and having fun, I feel better about leaving the floor when a song is particularly repugnant. Especially if I announce good and loud to the people around me that I just can’t stand to dance to that song, and I’ll be back later.

    It’s not some kind of call for censorship or a huge statement, but it’s a reminder to everyone that’s participating that they are reinforcing and affirming something that is in truth not acceptable. And it’s not an expectation that everyone else should do the same thing, but just encouragement to think about it, and not give it a pass without thinking.

    Tangient: There are these incredible film/documentaries on youtube of bell hooks talking about race and feminism and pop culture, that are really worth checking out:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQUuHFKP-9s

  4. Philly Phil wrote:

    ghostface, mobb deep and the clipse… that is the trifecta, isn’t it?

    i’m at work at the moment and ghostface’s “greedy bitches” just finished but then brother ali’s “rain water” came on after it… and that, i believe, is the balance we need to strive for when schoolin the young ones about hiph-hop. it’s all about balance. when things start to get one-sided in the musical choices, especially within the genre of hip-hop, their own personal views can be distorted and violence, brutality, and sexism could end up being the only filter with which they perceive.

    i work with kids here in chicago. one of my kids who was able to escape his circumstances in the hood through a boarding school scholarship was riding with me to his new campus. lupe fiasco’s “hurt me soul” came on and this talkative ass kid just shut the hell up and listened. and then he played it back and listened again and the next thing i know, this kid who used to idolize three-six mafia was downloading all the lupe fiasco he could get his hands on.

    balance is the key.

  5. ill Mami wrote:

    M.dot,
    I agree with almost everything in your article except your assertion that Ghostface, The Clipse, and Mobb Deep all qualify as gangsta rappers. Maybe it’s my NYC roots, but in order of ascending gangsta-ness, it would be Ghostface<The Clipse<Mobb Deep. And Mobb Deep are way too short to seem threatening to me. Ghostface’s love of old soul samples, nostalgia, and his mother (”All That I Got Is You”) to me does not put him t all in the classification of gangsat rap at all. I have always thought of gangsta rap to be a West Coast-only domain. If I had to choose any East Coast gangsta rappers, they would include Biggie, Kool G Rap, and M.O.P.

    But I do agree with you wholeheartedly on everything else, especially when you write “listening to ‘Shook off the Realness’ is nurturing something dysfunctional in me. If you have ever grown up in a NYC ghetto, dysfunctionality abounds. It is precisely this dysfunctionality that is reassurring, familiar, and thus feels like “home.” As I have gotten older, I still rhyme along to these songs, but it is harder to listen to any of my favorite rappers new works, especially if it isn’t on a positive tip.

  6. R-SON the Voice wrote:

    “The majority of rap videos make it clear that hip hop is one dimensional in how it perceives, portrays and represents women.”

    The majority that make it on air with heavy rotation..

    HipHop itself is far from one dimensional. It’s representations in the major media are, but the culture itself is much broader. That’s what O’Reilly and his ilk either fail to or refuse to recognize.

    So..
    Do we cease listening to the music? That probably won’t happen

    Do we work with teachers to create a curriculum that helps them use music videos to teach students about gender, capitalism and patriarchy? Most certainly

    Do we continue to listen to the music and have these discussions and urge others to do so as well? We have to

    Most importantly we (HipHoppers) have to take control of what is used to portray us to the rest of society. We are much broader, grander and more dynamic than the booty video of the day, or the newest radio smash hit. We are not all drug dealers who degrade women and commit acts of violence towrd our brothers.

    Resist…..

  7. fem.men.ist wrote:

    Thanks for this post M.Dot!

    I think it is important to critique hip hop. I appreciate your thoughtful journey with this! have you seen Byron Hurt’s Hip Hop: Beyond Beats And Rhymes ? it very thoroughly addresses concerns around masculinity, sexism and homophobia in hip hop, from the perspective of a hip hop head. In my top 5 documentaries for sure.

    As a dj i really have to navigate these questions and make choices. The crowd at my parties know that they will not hear any songs calling women b’s and h’s, or that showcase gangsta bravado around killing folks. This includes not playing blatantly homophobic dancehall (by blatant, i mean songs where that is the main subject of the chorus, though some lyrics still contain messages calling for a heteronormative, hegemonic masculinity, but most people don’t understand it anyway in the US. ie, i do not spin “Dem A Sissy” or “Boom Bye Bye”. As a Jamaican, i also think its important to critique dancehall, but that’s another convo). When i spin, there will be a sector of people annoyed, because they basically won’t hear some of their favorite top 40 songs. I am clear that my role is not to reproduce these messages to my people, OR to basically regurgitate the same couple songs on rotation on the radio all day. In the end, some people won’t feel it. The people that do, come up and thank me, saying they feel good, refreshed. These people come back and bring others who can appreciate a much less oppressive party atmosphere.

    I also agree with R Son, hip hop is not a monolith, there are many sides to hip hop, but only one side is given air time tho. Byron Hurt’s documentary gets into that too.

    Thanks again!

  8. Lane wrote:

    For me, blaming hip hop is blaming the messenger. The type of hip hop you’re writing about is, to my mind, merely a symptom of society’s ills.

    Hip hop is, like most of us, full of contradictions. The Mobb Deep of “Trife Life” (”got me thinkin’ like an animal”) is the same Mobb Deep of “Temperature’s Rising” which, to me, is full of humanity.

    Or, look at Tupac. So many of his songs were full of misogyny and violence, but he was the same man who wrote “Dear Mama”, “Brenda’s Got a Baby”, “Keep Your Head Up” and “White Man’s World”, among others. I would never trade back those songs to get rid of the negative.

    Still, I think it’s right to critique. Yet, I don’t believe a strong critique requires you to abandon hip hop. More important is working to alleviate some of society’s problems to try to rid communities of the conditions from which this type of hip hop springs.

    Great post!

  9. Anonymiss wrote:

    This is an interesting topic as I’ve been wrestling with this for years. I’ve loved Hip Hop for so long and for more than a decade was desensitized to the BS.

    Hip Hop has been offending my senses for the past few years and I’ve become withdrawn. Like Chris Rock, I couldn’t defend it anymore. It just seemed far too hateful of women and gays and far too in love with material things and drugs. The venom that’s directed towards women and gays is never the same type of venom directed towards the government and others that hurt their underpriveleged communities. I don’t get it.

    I started listening to more “positive” rappers and that brought me back. Every now and then, I nod my head to the stuff that I loved back in the day but I can’t see myself buying the music of an artist that has no respect for me.

  10. kayla wrote:

    i think that the answer is instead of not supporting any Hip Hop artists, is instead to support the ones with a positive message more and those with negative messages less.

    in the end it’s always going to be about what sells the most and what people are buying. if music moguls see a change in what is selling, then they will begin to put out more of what the consumers want. if we don’t want those negative messages infiltrating our children then we have to find an alternative within hip hop instead of abadoning the music altogehter.

  11. marge twain wrote:

    @kayla: you have a good point but it’s important to realize that the audience of top 40 hip hop includes a lot of white people. I always cringe when I walk by one of the fraternity houses in town and hear them playing 50 cent at a party or when a bunch of white dudes in backwards hats pull up in their SUV bobbing their heads to Lil John. And I know for a fact, from what they’ve told me, that some white people think they’re hearing God’s honest truth about the “black experience” since it’s made by black people.

  12. Angela wrote:

    M. Dot–great piece. I do think the idea of creating a positive space to critique and discuss hip-hop and music videos with children is a good one, but underneath the entire article, I feel the continued existence of equating blackness with hip-hop.

  13. m.dot wrote:

    Good Morning everyone and thank you for reading my piece and for sharing your thoughts.

    @Chica Dificil, I see you and your lawyerly outline format:) Thank you for your highlights.

    @ Slush, thank you for the bell hooks youtube links. You have NO IDEA what you have done!

    @Philly Phil
    this kid who used to idolize three-six mafia was downloading all the lupe fiasco he could get his hands on
    =======
    Yo. Can I use this comment for a piece on how hip hop helped raise us? I am really thinking, after a conversation with Birkhold, that Hip Hop is like our father, and that may be the reason that we defend it like we do.

    @ illMiami I have always thought of gangsta rap to be a West Coast-only domain.
    ======
    Thats interesting. Hmmp. “Who is a gangsta rapper?” is a GREAT post idea. Thank you.

    @fem.i.nist
    What a small world it is. I met you recently @ Lucky Lounge and took a flick of your *smash patriarchy* shirt.

    @anonymiss
    It just seemed far too hateful of women and gays and far too in love with material things and drugs.
    =======
    Gurrll. Thats the realness. Knowing this “me still hearts” Mobb Deep. BUT, I have been listening to a LOT of Lenny Williams tho.

    @Kalyla
    in the end it’s always going to be about what sells the most and what people are buying.
    =====
    This line of thinking has me shook. I think about whether this thinking would pass the muster in the abolitionist era.
    What if they said, “We can’t do anything about this slavery stuff, its just too powerful”?

    I feel the continued existence of equating blackness with hip-hop.
    ========
    Perhaps I did unintentionally. Based on the feedback, I realized that I went into the piece with some presumptions that I would have been better served by mentioning out loud. Lord knows I know that Black folks are more dynamic than a bag of jelly belly’s.

    @marge twain
    when a bunch of white dudes in backwards hats pull up in their SUV bobbing their heads to Lil John
    =====
    Its lightweight BLASPHEMOUS for us to own ANY part of this. You noticed I didn’t mention it? I think it deserves its own article.

  14. CVT wrote:

    It’s a struggle, isn’t it?

    As a middle school teacher AND hip-hop fan (and creator), this stands out a lot. When the kids ask to listen to some music and ask what I have to put on, and I have to say “it’s not school appropriate,” that doesn’t feel right.

    So I, myself, stay away from music that doesn’t have a message. There will still be language and some tricky imagery (especially around women and/or homosexuality), but I feel that if there’s something worth saying behind it, I can justify it.

    As for the kids – I like trying to expose them to hip-hop that isn’t mainstream. Because most of what they know is from the radio (and, therefore, “gangsta rap”), I like to play them a snippet of something hard, but political (i.e. “Immortal Technique”). They invariably find themselves nodding to the beat, and then they ask, “Who’s this?” That’s something. Just making sure the kids know that it’s NOT just gangsta rap – and, hopefully, they’ll follow the road to more purely conscious and POSITIVE hip-hop.

    The other thing I do is talk to the kids about being real with their lyrics/what they say. They are all about “being real” at their age, but they seldom do it – so if I harp on being honest in their lyrics, instead of just copying somebody else (using their pride as a tool to prevent biting), a little bit less of the purely commercial “gangsta” comes out in what they say/write.

    The key, though, is exposure – exposure to something else. Exposure to what’s NOT on the radio, so they have something else to strive for (or just listen to).

  15. Hilary wrote:

    What a fantastic post.

    I think the key here is nuanced conversation. There is no oppression quota. Racism and sexism are definitely patriarchal, and you do a great job of explaining how that can be internalized, even into hip hop.

    Saying that some hip hop is misogynistic does not condemn all of it. Not all hip hop is misogynistic, and hip hop artists certainly did not invent the video babe. Hip hop took off at the same time that glam metal bands dominated Mtv. Hot for Teacher, Girls Girls Girls, Sam Kennison’s Wild Thing, and countless other videos with trashy dancers dominating the videos.

    We need to be willing to examine culture that we identify with, where it’s uncomfortable, to really make progress.

  16. Hilary wrote:

    Sorry for posting twice, but I replied when I read the original post and didn’t read the replies.

    Slush inspired me to write about something that happened to me this week. Before I was a mom and a medical student, I used to like to go out dancing, too. And, as you said, it is not all hip hop that can be offensive.

    I was listening to the radio just yesterday and a song came on that I used to dance to and somehow defend it, “Smack my Bitch Up” by The Prodigy. Now I can’t defend it or say that it is just ironic. I had to change the station and I cringed that I used to listen to it.

    Definitely, it is a genre of music, and other types of music have their bad eggs, too. And white hip hop performers also perpetuate misogyny – I was just listening to the Beastie Boys the other day, and they were talking about their bitches. This is not a problem in which race is the effect modifier.

  17. fem.men.ist wrote:

    no WAY M.dot!!! wassup!! it is a small world. you should pass thru Lucky Lounge again this saturday, its gonna be off the chain… Raashan Ahmad from Crown City Rockers and DJ Lovelee are gonna share the decks with me.

    didja peep the Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes clip? there are a lot of great quotes but one of the more deep ones for me is seeing an anonymous black woman say:

    “i jokingly say that i am in recovery from hip hop. Its like being in a domestic violent situation. Your home is hip hop, and your man beats you.”

    wow.

    i would imagine queer folks feel similarly about dancehall in Jamaica. Still waiting for THAT documentary to be made….

    be sure to holla if you stop thru! bless up

    ~richard

  18. mylie wrote:

    I really connected with what you said about the kids changing between 6 and 8. I work with a bunch of 2nd graders and they’re 7-8, some are 6. The boys, especially, and a few of the girls, will curse around me and I’ve heard them say the N word (with the -a sound on the end, not with the- er). I know they don’t say these things to their teacher, but they feel fine saying them around me and their other tutors, who are 15-18 years old. The classroom, by the way, is 100% black and in a low-income area.
    The kids have often sung rap songs to me. They’ll tell me about what they saw on Family Guy or some other vulgar cartoon the night before, without a hint of embarrassment. And I know I’m young, but I really don’t think they should be watching stuff like that or listening to stuff like that. At least not until they have some perspective. We can’t just go straight into showing them the bad side of hip hop. We need them to be firmly rooted in the good stuff.
    My brother would sometimes listen to this kind of music in his car, with the cursing and whatnot when my sister and I were very little. But he would always *very* firmly tell us that he should never hear us or hear about us saying those words. So we never did. We also had the privilege of basically never running into anything bad at all, so even at that young age, we were somewhat firmly rooted, so a short burst of a few bad words didn’t send us spiraling in the other direction. But the kids I work with don’t get those kinds of reprimands. A lot of them are raised by grandparents who are too old and tired to be that stern. Their mothers and fathers (who are frequently not a part of the picture) are too busy working to know what their children are watching and hearing and saying. Though the kids I work with do have a good teacher, they only have her for one year (Not an issue in my childhood. I had all my elementary teachers for 3 years.) and have had many bad or just mediocre teachers before her. And they’ll have many ones like that afterwards.
    I’ve seen the kids who grow up like this. A few of them go to my high school (7-12, only for students with above average IQs, highly ranked) and despite their great surroundings, they continue to be the way they were in elementary school. And they flunk out or have such low GPAs that they need to leave, in alarming numbers. They’re also very rude to women. So it definitely has a lasting effect, a big one.