Another Note on the Election

by Latoya Peterson

One of the most annoying memes I hear keep popping up in the media and on various threads and boards is that “blacks are voting for Obama – why is it racist to say whites vote for Clinton? It’s a fact that black people are voting for Obama because he’s black, just admit it.”

Here’s why that assumption pisses me off – because that is an oversimplification of what actually happened. Clinton and Obama started out more or less equal in the eyes of the black community. Yes, some people were determined to vote black, no matter what. And some people preferred to go with Clinton as we have seen her work. And some people had the idiotic mentality that a vote for Hill is another vote for Bill, so vote for her. So at the beginning of this race, Hillary was the assumed nominee. Many of us were intrigued by Barack Obama, but not sold. After all, who was he? Even after winning Oprah’s backing, people were still skeptical of Obama.

As I have said many times before, when this race started, I was happy with either candidate getting the nod. Both showed dedication and leadership, and while their tactics differed, they had grand plans for improvement. With Edwards in the mix, the conversation about poverty and class actually became a mainstay of the election stump speech which was a welcome addition. Things were tense, but cool. We were going to see who was the better contender and that person would become our nominee.

This was supposed to be a battle of ideals – not a rehashing of race and gender relations in the United States.

And yet, here we are.

A month or so ago, I was talking with one of my friends who happens to be white, female, and Jewish. She staunchly and proudly voted for HRC and campaigns for her to be president. Sipping on a beer, she turned to me and said, “See, you’re lucky. Black people stick together. Women, we don’t do that. Women suck. We can’t unite around our candidate the way black people can.”

I appraised her with some amusement. “Black people spend a lot of time talking about how we can’t come together to get things done. Even now, there are black people who are die-hard HRC supporters, a lot who aren’t voting anyway, and some Obama supporters. You generally only see the united black front after some high offense has happened.”

Like I said, that was over a month ago. We haven’t spoken since. But it is obvious that things changed. The fact that a split black populace suddenly decided to rally around a black candidate with numbers into 90% are telling.

So, when you read the headlines that we read, think about it from a black perspective. dnA reports:

Apparently not satisfied with her plummeting approval ratings among black voters, Hillary Clinton decided to remind us again that our votes don’t actually count:

    “I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in an interview with USA TODAY. As evidence, Clinton cited an Associated Press article “that found how Sen. Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

    “There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

Hard-working Americans = white Americans. Right. The rest of us sit on our porches eating watermelon and plucking banjos.

For some reason, despite this “broader base” Clinton still seems to be having trouble raising money, and you know, getting more votes than her opponent. But at this point any abstract metric besides votes or delegates that Clinton can use as a rationale for her candidacy becomes the only appropriate one to use.

This kind of comment is less a description than an agitator, it’s meant to give white voters the impression that they would be “disenfranchised” by an Obama win. It’s a not so subtle effort to evoke racial resentment over Obama’s success.

Now, I can understand the perspective of an HRC supporter. She’s worked hard. She’s come back from adversity time and time again. She has good policy. She is composed in the face of direct and blatant attacks on her womanhood, character, and appearance since 1992.

And for some people, they can see a lot of themselves in Hillary. They can see themselves striving for what some would say impossible. They cheerfully say “Pick Flick” referring to the movie Election, able to relate to working hard to have some one swoop in from the shadows and take it from you. For many women, Hillary is the hope they have in smashing the ultimate glass ceiling.

Fine. More power to you. If you want to support HRC, go ahead. As I mentioned in the last post, if you’re going to be a supporter represent.

But here’s where I’m coming from.

Young, black, female voter. Grew up poor, not dirt poor, but below the poverty line for 16 out of the first twenty years. I don’t need to play at poverty, I remember it well. I’ve been in the workforce since the age of twelve, illegally, age fourteen, legally, and working full time at age seventeen. And while many women have stories about how they were dealt with differently because of their gender, that was not one of my struggles.

I dealt with discrimination based on my blackness and based on my age. Being the youngest person in your office means that people look at your age first and your lack of experience rather than the results you produce. I thought this would get better the more I worked and the harder I worked, but that is not the case. I’ve had situations where I have met and exceeded every performance goal and not received a full raise. When pressed for an answer as to why I was not awarded the full amount, the responses always mentioned that “everyone has room for improvement” and included some kind of crack about happy hour being cheap at my age or how I didn’t have to pay for daycare or anything.

Apparently, the young and childless do not need proper compensation for our work. I’ve been passed over for promotions because I was the youngest person in my department even though I operated in the unofficial management capacity as I knew the most about what we were doing and how to do it. Apparently, older people have problems with younger bosses. It is better to have an older boss come and ask me how to do something, than to appoint someone young and competent to a management position.

So when the talk began about Barack “standing aside and waiting his turn” I wanted to spit blood. But I said nothing. (I should mention though that competence gets the last laugh, generally – I’m twenty four and self-employed. I have a day job of sorts, but that’s for financial stability more than anything else.) So, entitlement pisses me off quite a bit.

Just prove your worth through your work. That’s not so hard, is it?

And now, this comment arises to stick in my side thanks to all of the anti-black discrimination I have experienced. It doesn’t matter that Barack has more delegates and Clinton and Obama are neck and neck in the popular vote. No, fuck that. He still isn’t electable. The white vote is important, but it is not a monolith. But that doesn’t seem to matter. Obama will lose white votes (despite showing more than respectable numbers) and that alone should show us that he’s not electable.

I really wish Hillary hadn’t said that.

I wish she had stood up for herself. I wish she had argued about policy or having a better grasp on the issues or even fallen back on her oft-debated experience.

But no.

She decided to announce to America that white voters aren’t going to go for this black guy, so she should be the candidate.

When I read the quote, I immediately thought of that old adage “you have to work twice as hard to go half as far. You have to be twice as good to be considered good.” This was drilled into me from an early age. It doesn’t matter how well you do, no one will acknowledge it until you are fucking spectacular.

Obama has to suck this up. He has to continue to work twice as hard, which is why he had the state by state plan built into his campaign. We – and by that, I mean blacks – know we can assume nothing. He is still regarded as half as good, even though it is obvious that he is both capable and electable. Barack could never get on air and say that since he has the black vote and the “elitist” white vote, he’s more electable. Could never happen. This option isn’t even open to him. He knows the rules just as well as I do, and he’s been living them longer.

He’s going to keep going. He has to. There’s nothing else to do.

It is at this moment that I need to acknowledge that voting is a complicated thing. People base their votes on everything under the sun – the way they felt that day, policy, pundits, who their favorite celebrity is voting for, who their friends are voting for, what pet issue they like the best. That’s why elections are a potent mix of issues and emotion. Because a mix of the two is what resonates the most strongly.

Obama had me, from a policy standpoint on his ideas to solve longstanding problems. (See the highlights on the candidates and poverty post.)

But today, Hillary Clinton delivered Barack Obama the emotional side of my vote on a silver platter.

There are things that I have come to expect in life: hardships, adversities, challenges, based on all manner of things, from what I can control to what I cannot.

But there is nothing quite like all the subtle indignities that one is forced to endure with grace because we happen to be born brown.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Why “experience” was the wrong meme | season of the bitch on 18 May 2008 at 10:01 am

    [...] Latoya at Racialicious noted, many of us younger people have been told we can’t do something because we’re too [...]

  2. Snowed In » Blog Archive » Checking myself on 03 Jul 2008 at 12:44 am

    [...] what about this post, from a couple months ago, where I liberally quote Latoya Peterson and dnA, two people of color?  I’m quoting them, with attribution and links.  And in some [...]

Comments

  1. Jack D. wrote:

    I am fatigued by the way the news media gloms onto categorizations as an *explanation* for why certain candidates get a certain amount of votes — blacks, middle-class blue-collar workers, women, Catholics, angry white old men, dyslexic redheads, whatever. Hell, I’m surprised no one yet has declared that Obama is ahead *merely* because he’s secured the left-handers voting blok that has eluded politicians in past elections (he’s a leftie, you know). … In lumping people together into tidy little labeled groups, the media makes it ridiculously easy to discount the value of the individual, the issues, and a highly complex decision-making process. Instead, we’re left with generalizations such as “All Blacks Will Vote THIS Way.” … It makes me so very tired.

  2. Laura wrote:

    I am curious what your ‘friend’s’ Judaism had to do with her comment (as ignorant as it was). If she was Christian, would have felt the need to include a descriptor of her religion?

  3. Sheri wrote:

    Latoya, that was an incredible post. I briefly saw a story about what Hillary said. I went about my busy day but it left me uneasy. You broke it down why what she say was offensive.

    Everytime I heard a news pundit talk about “Barack is losing the white vote” I think, “What about Hillary and the black vote?” They don’t even bring it up anymore because the numbers are so bad for her. What she said today just screams, “Look at him! He’s Black! A Black person can’t win the general!” Like Gov. Ed Rendell (PA) citing the racism of whites, what does that make you if you base a candidate’s electability on “other” people’s racism?

    I find it increasingly hard to believe that Clinton see black people as equals. But I also find Hillary concerns for working class whites is questionable. During Bill’s campaign in ‘92 she allegedly said “Screw em! You don’t owe them anything.”

  4. Laura wrote:

    sorry…typo: ‘would you’

  5. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Laura –

    She identifies primarily as Jewish. She would be pissed if I only identified her as white, though that is a common descriptor. And since I know a few black jews, I tend to offer the full description.

  6. JustPlainOl'Me wrote:

    Nice post Latoya.

    My wife’s family is fairly conservative and two Thanksgivings ago, I remember a family spat breaking out over how much one of her family members despised Hillary. I felt out of place because I was, at the time, one of the few in the room that would have actually voted for Hillary. It’s safe to say that I’ll feel quite at home this coming Thanksgiving (unless they start bashing Obama).

  7. Xavier wrote:

    Please listen to the audio of the interview. It then becomes clear that she was modifying her original phrase twice, first she said working Americans, then quickly added hard-working Americans, and then white Americans. Its not as offensive as some are attempting to make it out. We all do the same thing when we forget to specify something. I would think an emdash is more appropriate than the comma the way its being reported. Obama’s strategist–and the candidate himself–have said much the same thing, referring to this group as “blue collar workers,” but we all know what they’re talking about.

    Moreover, what Hillary is saying is true. Obama has failed to appeal to working class whites, a crucial swing demographic, who are seriously affected by our troubled economy.

    This is not something new. I’ve been in about 6 states volunteering for Hillary’s campaign, and I can tell you that working class voters are, generally, not voting against Obama, but rather for Hillary. It has nothing to do with the fact that he’s half-black or that she’s white… they just feel more of a connection with her, feel that she, not he, understands where they’re coming from, and has the policies to get their families and communities back on the right track.

    As a Chicano, I’ve hated the way the coverage of the Latino vote has framed this as browns voting against blacks, because its not that simple. As you mentioned, there are blacks voting for Obama because he’s black, just as there are whites who are voting out of racism. But its a small majority. The Latinos who came into HRC’s East LA Office were strong FOR Hillary, not strong anti-Obama, just as the whites who volunteered at the HRC office in Lima, OH, Davenport, IA, and Marion, IN were strong FOR Hillary, not anti-Obama.

    What people misunderstand about Sen. Clinton’s comments is that she’s not just talking about the general election as an abstract, she’s talking specifically about the general election match-up with Sen. McCain, who has strong appeal to working class whites, Hispanics, and single women–the groups Sen. Obama has not yet proven his ability to do well with.

    In this context, her comments make perfect sense.

  8. Xavier wrote:

    Sheri, I think Hillary sees the reality that a coalition of African-Americans and college students will not lead Democrats to victory in November, no matter how high the turnout.

  9. CEdwards wrote:

    Thank God! I’ve been waiting for someone to post something about this.

    Whenever I hear that black people vote for Obama, two ideas come into my mind:

    1. Assumption: Black Americans are omtomotons and think like sheep. If we see one of us jump over the cliff, we all do. Thank you, America, for thinking so highly of us.

    2. Where is this question when whites vote primarily for Republicans? It’s not surprising in my opinion that blacks vote Democratic (given political history), but let’s be sure that if blacks are voting based on race, that there must be a similar correlation to be said about Whites.

    Just a thought from the peanut gallery…

  10. Xavier wrote:

    Also, I would suggest reading the article Sen. Clinton was citing which was entitled “Race key in NC” and states flatly, “Obama, the Illinois senator battling to become the first black president, again failed to gain ground with a crucial voting bloc that has consistently eluded him — working-class whites.”

    Also, isn’t it some sort of logical fallacy to say that Hillary’s statement that working-class Americans are hard-working is to say that the rest of America is not hard-working?

  11. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Xaiver -

    And why would someone vote for a candidate who is intentionally alienating segments of the core democratic base? Do you really think everyone will kiss and make up come November?

  12. Xavier wrote:

    CEdwards, its difficult to make that parallel when the white vote is generally split between the two candidates and the black vote goes 9-1 for Obama.

  13. CEdwards wrote:

    Xavier, I don’t think anyone can deny that blacks are voting for Obama 9-1, but if it was simply an issue that he’s black then, (a) see my sheep theory, or (b) why haven’t we all turned Republican red and voted for someone like Alan Keyes?

  14. Xavier wrote:

    Latoya, I don’t think that she’s intentionally alienating African-American voters. Her campaign has done aggressive outreach to African-Americans, which includes her campaign manager Maggie Williams, Maya Angelou, and other prominent African-American voters.

    But I think the running conversation in the media for over a year has been whether Obama can win over white voters in numbers required to win in a general reason. The media narrative around why the polls switched in South Carolina from huge margins for Hillary to huge margins for Barack is that he proved he could win white voters by winning white voters.

    But to this date, he hasn’t really proved his ability to win white voters outside of the context of caucuses, which, having experienced several, tend to be dominated by party activists (as they were intended to be) which trend more liberal, and do not see large turnouts of working-class voters, as you would in a primary or in a general election.

    I’m not denying that racism is not helping to shape political behavior, only attempting to explain that, even if Sen. Clinton was making the statement you assert she is (and I don’t believe she was), this has been the conversation amongst politicians, pundits, and the press for over a year, they just coin more cute, less overtly race-based terminology to describe it.

    Political behavior is determined by a variety of factors, I agree, but, why are African-Americans voting for Obama by such a wide margin? I don’t ask that question rhetorically. I’d like to know. Because certainly race is shaping their choices, just as race is shaping the choice of whites.

  15. BT wrote:

    I agree, I’m really tired about breaking down votes into race, education, and economic status. Its so judgemental. I’m tired of the speculation. The media has created so many fake controversies in this election that they should all be ashamed. Hillary needs to just stop the madness. This is just embarrassing!

    This was a great post and a poignant critique that I haven’t read elsewhere. I agree that they are making things more difficult for Obama. There were other presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy who had the same amount or even less experience than Obama. I also read on the Huffington Post that winning democrats usually don’t get the working-class white vote anyway and that Hillary is playing games by telling everyone that they are the most powerful group in electing democrats.

    I identify as Black first and woman second so thats why if I have to choose only based on my group membership then I would choose Black. But thats not the only criteria people use to select someone and the media seems to forget that about Black people. If Obama was actually a weak candidate and Black people didn’t like what he had to say then they would not elect them. There have been other Black people who have run for president but this is the first one to appeal to a wide range of people and his message is much better. Thats why he’s winning. He’s just better presidential material than Hillary.

  16. Xavier wrote:

    CEdwards, I don’t think that the sheep theory is accurate, and as I mentioned, voting behavior is not determined by one factor.

    But I do think there is something to the argument, outlined, in part, in Latoya’s post that African-Americans, more so than women are relative to their gender, are more aware of the way their skin color affects their daily lives, and this makes race a more salient force shaping political behavior.

  17. Kirk wrote:

    Yeah, I got that “black votes don’t count” vibe too. And the sad part is that she’s right. Do you honestly think that black voters will lean towards the GOP if Barak doesn’t get the nomination? HRC is taking our vote for granted because she knows she can. We are the most dependable,loyal voting block the Democrats have had. It hurts because while I’m for Barak I like em both! Bush has pretty much shot the GOP in the foot with his actions.

  18. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Xavier -

    Having African American endorsement is not the same as outreach. And we’ve been thrown under the bus by Hillary. 10% of black democrats are still voting for her, but if you read the piece above you, you would see why so many blacks decided not to support her even if she becomes the nominee. Offenses were committed and she as the candidate DID NOT DISTANCE HERSELF from them. Obama was forced to reject and denounce Wright’s statements and later distance himself from the pastor. I have not seen or heard an apology or a distancing from the Clinton camp.

    Did you understand that – even if she becomes the nominee. She is sacrificing support in the short term hoping to regain them in November, and if you were reading blogs like Jack and Jill Politics or like Too Sense, you would see that probably is not a good gamble.

    If Hillary does manage to defy the odds and become the candidate, and it becomes a tight race with McCain, she will be KICKING herself for screwing over so many voters who could have helped victory swing her way.

  19. Xavier wrote:

    BT, but the problem is that he’s not appealing to a “wide range of people.” He’s appealing to a lot of certain demographics (latte liberal elites, African-Americans, college students, college-educated voters). His ability to tap into these demographics is amazing, yes, and they fuel his unprecedented fundraising totals.

    But OH, PA, and IN reinforced the fact that no matter how much money you spend (he outspent HRC 3-1, 4-1, and 3-1, respectively) it can only go so far if you’re not offering the policies and relief that lower-educated, lower-income (white) voters are looking for. The reason that I put white in parenthesis and why I believe that race is more of a factor in the decision of African-Americans than for working-class whites is the margin of victories. Although Hillary won working-class whites by a healthy margin, Sen. Obama got a good share of their votes… the same is not true of working-class African-Americans, while the split is similar among working-class Hispanic voters in California and other states (HRC wins a healthy share, but not 9-1).

  20. Jennifer wrote:

    I have been lurking on this blog for a very long time and I love it! There is actually intelligent conversation and I feel like I have learned something from reading this blog. (The ironic thing is that I found the link to this blog on Black Voices, and if you have visited this site then you will know why this is ironic but I digress) Latoya, your post are so intelligent on on point and after reading this one, I felt I just had to post. I never really would admit why I favored Obama but I knew it was racial and I knew it had to do with being turned off by Hillary. I just could not articulate why and I believe your post hit the nail on the head. Like you, I started this campaign season open to both candidates…actually I was leaning towards Hillary to be honest. Then slowly but surely all this other stuff began to happen and I saw the Clintons for what they truly are. And you know, I can swallow some things in the name of politics because it is indeed a dirty game and I realize that Obama is not a pure as the driven snow. Yet there is a line that I draw on some things and Hillary politely plowed right through it. I am cool with the fact that other minorities, Blacks, or women can still be down with her but I just can’t do it. I used to hear (mainly white women and men) speak viciously about Hillary and call her all sorts of names except a child of God and I was like damn…is it that serious? I kinda felt that they were threatened by her and probably her and her husband Bill’s association with people of color. I live in the deep south (Louisiana) and to me it always seemed like all the vitroil directed at the Clintons from other whites did have a racially tinged base. In turn, I vigorously defended Hillary and the racial and sexist attacks aimed at her from other whites. (Interestingly enough, I noticed few blacks, and if they did then they were usually conservative, attacked the Clintons so intensively). That being said, it makes it doubly painful for her and her campagin to pull some of this racist crap when let’s be real….African American Democrats (such as myself) have found themselves defending her to the very people she is pandering to get votes from. Moreover, I do not know if you are aware of it Latoya, but I find that her current position in relation to Barack Obama in the media has a distinct southern gothic tint to it. Maybe because I am an English major and a graduate of an HBCU therefore highly paranoid and see signs in everybody’s behavior as clues to American society’s neurosis concerning race but it appears that she is playing off of the white woman versus the dangerous black man dynamic. Hear me out. White women, not all but many, are very aware of their position in the power structure of patriarchial society. That is to say, they come in second to white men. In order to access some power, they must manipulate minorities or their position to minorities to gain sympathy and support as well as visibility from others within that power structure. I hate to do this but it reminds me of all those times when white women cried rape on African American men to access some sort of attention from the White males. These women were able to access power and provoke reaction in their communities by using the fear of Black men and the currency of their white womanhood for their own gains. Now before everyone gets this twisted….I am absolutely NOT saying that Hillary Clinton is comparable to these women. What I am saying is that these tactics that she and her campaign have used in this election against the Obama campaign have yielded the same results as the ones these women used back in the day in the Old South. Women’s power back then (even white women) was limited so they had to do what they could to access some of it. Look at the way the many, especially those in the Right wing area, in the media viewed and treated Hillary Clinton prior to this campaign. Pardon my French but it was pretty much like shit. I used to listen to Elizabeth from the View (to use a small, minor example) and she would go on and on about Hillary. Now, with the campaign taking this turn that it has in these few months, she sounds a lot more sympathetic. An eyebrow was also raised when I saw her go on Fox News and engage in conversation with the very people who supposedly despise her. I just couldn’t help but wonder what she was playing off of and I realized after reading your post that these people who previously felt strongly one way about this woman, seemed to be turning another way, even if it was ever so slightly. Then I realized why. Hillary was comparing herself to Barack, who was a Black man and of course people lean towards who they identify the most with….in this case, Hillary. And she knew this and she played off of people’s prejudices and that my friend, just about turned my stomach. It’s one thing to use all of your resources but to pull that out, in addition to that “I have a broader base” bullshit….I’m done with her and I think a lot of African Americans are too.

  21. Xavier wrote:

    Latoya, I did read your post, and am not one of the entitlement vain of Clinton supporters. But, being a person of color myself, I think the coverage of this campaign has focused on the wrong aspects of race and does not do anything to expose the structures of racism that still exist in our society

    And you might be too generous in saying that Obama knew he would have to work twice as hard when he built in the caucus strategy…

    I will add those blogs to my feed readers. But, as a general rule, I’ve discovered that blogs are not an accurate representation of the “real” world, and its something that I myself have been struggling with. There’s a certain class of people who read blogs, post blogs, comment on blogs. Now, there may be a wide range of opinions and those opinions may be a window into the lives of other types of people, but its not a complete picture and it largely lives out those most affected by the digital divide (low-income & rural Americans).

    I really just wish that one of the reporters who covers the election would bother to get off the bus, leave the press riser, and talk to the people on the streets in these small towns or urban centers. Because you’d get an entirely different picture.

  22. atlasien wrote:

    “why are African-Americans voting for Obama by such a wide margin? I don’t ask that question rhetorically. I’d like to know.”

    Last year, Clinton had a higher percentage of the black vote than Obama. She lost it while he gained it. The process was crystal clear following it on the local level here in Atlanta.

    The majority of black people liked Bill Clinton, also liked Hillary Clinton and trusted that she would look out of African-American interests. Obama’s race was a factor — after all, being African-American is usually strongly correlated with looking out for African-American interests — but prior familiarity with Clinton trumped Obama’s relatively small racial advantage.

    I went to a predominantly black Obama fundraiser house party last year, and the crowd was lackluster. Several people were only there as a favor to the host, and demanded to watch football instead of the boring Obama speech DVD, and said they didn’t think he had a hope in hell and they were planning on voting for Clinton.

    Among the powerful Atlanta civil rights old guard, Joseph Lowery was an early Obama support, but John Lewis had declared for Clinton.

    From that point on, the process was inexorable, and extremely simple. As Clinton pissed off African-American voters, and Obama inspired them and picked them up. John Lewis realized he had to change his support because he was going against the will of his district. This is a congressman who has run unopposed for decades… but once the tide started changing, a challenger popped up because Lewis was suddenly vulnerable and seemed out of touch.

    Obama never had a magic “lock on the black vote”. He worked at it and he leveraged into it.

  23. Big Man wrote:

    And what happened in Indiana?

    Or North Carolina?

    He did just fine in Indiana and killed in N.C.?

    Just because Obama loses to Hillary among working class white people does not mean he will lose to McCain. In fact, considering the fact that McCain and Hillary have nothing in common as far as long term policy, if people decide to switch their vote to McCain when Obama wins, that is not a policy decision, it’s a race decision. The fact is, both Hillary and Obama have struggled to obtain key demographics that make up the Democratic base, for Hillary to pretend that Obama’s struggles make him unelectable and hers are no big deal is dishonest and appeals to racism.

  24. Persia wrote:

    But to this date, he hasn’t really proved his ability to win white voters outside of the context of caucuses

    I call bullshit. He’s performed well among white voters across the board or he wouldn’t be a contender. He won my small state– Vermont– handily, despite our being the whitest state in the union. You’re also assuming that white working-class Democrats will flip to McCain if they don’t have Hillary to vote for– which, IMO, is a serious insult to a lot of white working-class voters, as well as Obama.

  25. Indie wrote:

    Obama has not really reached out to black voters nor addressed the issues that pertinent to black people as we would have demanded from a white candidate.

    There was such an outrage amongst my friends and family members when I said I will not be voting for Obama in the primaries. It was automatically assumed that I will have to, not only am I of an African origin and his dad is Kenyan. It was sacrilege to them that I will even consider not voting for him, when I asked if he had addressed the issues that were important to them, they said it did not matter. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will deliver, we might all be in for a rude awakening.

    Colin Powell would have been my choice, I identify more with struggles that Hillary have had to deal and her tenacity in the face of adversity is admirable to me.

    I ended up voting for Obama because I do not know when there will be such an opportunity again for a black person to have this type of opportunity, it will be easier for a woman in the future.
    What I detest though is the outright lies being said about Bill and Hillary being racists. In all all their years of public service, they have been fair to both minorities and women, it is a shame that some in the black community has decided to demonize them. I have my doubts about Obama and wish Powell had the will to run for president.

  26. Persia wrote:

    Indie, what issues particularly pertinent to black people would you have liked to see addressed?

  27. gatamala wrote:

    Yeah, I got that “black votes don’t count” vibe too. And the sad part is that she’s right. Do you honestly think that black voters will lean towards the GOP if Barak doesn’t get the nomination? HRC is taking our vote for granted because she knows she can. We are the most dependable,loyal voting block the Democrats have had.

    Kirk,

    It is high time that we stand up and stop being taken for granted. HRC is not right, it is up to us to show her how very, very wrong she is. There is no rule that says, if you dont’ vote Dems, McCain is your only option. Write in, vote Nader, stay home.

    BT, but the problem is that he’s not appealing to a “wide range of people.” He’s appealing to a lot of certain demographics (latte liberal elites, African-Americans, college students, college-educated voters). His ability to tap into these demographics is amazing, yes, and they fuel his unprecedented fundraising totals.

    But OH, PA, and IN reinforced the fact that no matter how much money you spend (he outspent HRC 3-1, 4-1, and 3-1, respectively) it can only go so far if you’re not offering the policies and relief that lower-educated, lower-income (white) voters are looking for

    Do you not understand how some of us hear statements like these? We (really, black folk) are the “demographic”. We are not a wide-range of people, nor are we included in the wide-range of hard-working/working class Americans. HRC doesn’t need to INTENTIONALLY alienate us, she just does it willfully with the “understanding” that we’ll come shuckin & jivin’ (thanks Cuomo) back in the fall.

    As for whites, policies and relief, I grew up in NC….those textile jobs….dwindled from 92-2000. Yet, Silicon Valley had a ball…Go figure…

    Latte liberal? I thought folks were tired of the GOP???

  28. kd wrote:

    @INDIE-
    Thank you, especially on that made up racist shit.

  29. Indie wrote:

    @KD

    I discovered this site today because of LaToya’s post on another blog and I absolutely love her posts but I can see that I will not agree with a lot of people here.

    My problem with Obama is his inability or fear to address issues that affect black people. I was very disappointed with his response to New Orleans after Katrina. He refused to call a spade a spade that the response of federal and state government was at best abominable and would not have happened in a white or Hispanic neighborhood. He has tap danced around that issue whenever asked, it reminds me of Oprah getting into New Orleans and saying repeatedly,”I am just so angry,” yes O but who where you exactly mad at, it was left up to Kanye to articulate what most of us were feeling.
    I read about black communities in Indiana complaining that he doesn’t hold campaign rallies in the black neighbourhood and that they had tried without success to reach out to him without any luck, If that is not taking black vote for granted then I don’t know what is, the same thing we are accusing Hillary.

    I hate that black elected officials that backed Hillary were threatened and some had to have their numbers changed, and that happened to the congresswoman from Ohio.
    CBS news went behind the scene of Obama’s campaign headquaters, there were hardly black faces shown amongst the paid staff, is that going to reflect on his appointments.

    He is obviously relying on a lot of powerful white people behind the scene, will he owe too many favors that will be called on if he wins, will he have the power base to be his own man.
    We lost our shit when Hillary said that Martin Luther King worked hard to establish civil rights but that it also took a very strong president to push them into law, most of us saw that as trying to minimize what MLK has achieved. Could you imagine if George Bush was the president, do you think those civil right bills would have been passed into law? Sometimes we get too emotional and over react, I am offended that Malcolm doesn’t get his due prop from the mainstream media for his contribution to the civil right movement.
    Will Obama have the will power and conviction to do something like that without fear of being seen as dealing with a black issue, if he doesn’t, are we going to hold his feet to the fire?

  30. Bronze Trinity wrote:

    I agree that many Black people did not support Obama at first. Some of them, like me, thought that he would never come close to winning so why even bother. Others were worried that someone would assassinate him or something else horrible would happen. I thought Obama was great when I first saw him on Oprah, but if he had lost terribly on the first Super Tuesday I would not have been surprised at all. But when he started to win, public figures started to endorse him, and the whole Obama fever started it seemed as though he had a chance. I have never seen support for a candidate they way it has been for Obama so that made a big difference. In the past 4 years things have changed in terms of media coverage. Its not that a celebrity endorsement or music video makes me like the candidate, it just makes it clear to me that other people REALLY want him to win so he might have a large support base. Its like people were crazy in love and fanatical about him (yeah me too I guess) and thats proof of his charisma that could translate into votes.

  31. Zoe wrote:

    As an Asian American woman, I don’t feel that Clinton has ever reached out to my “demographic,” whereas Obama almost always mentions Asian Americans (along with people of various races and sexual orientations) in his stump speeches.

    As for Obama not appealing to white voters: last I checked, except for Iowa City, Iowa is a pretty white state. (And I don’t want to hear crap that he only won there because of the caucus.)

    Great post, Latoya. I feel so alientated by Clinton that if she ends up the nominee, I don’t know if I can bring myself to vote for her. I don’t want to reward her racism.

  32. silverkris wrote:

    I had supported Hillary in the primary (my state is CA) because at the time I felt she had the organization, resources, experience to win. Also I wanted in a pretty snarky way to have the opportunity to make all those rightwingers who vilified her to crap in their pants (there is no sweeter vengence than winning).

    But alas, Ms. Clinton has really run a terrible campaign, with poor advice and positioning. She’s squandered her first mover advantages, name recognition and resources. And I have been pretty fed up with the desparate, scorched earth tactics she and Bill have been doing in the campaign, a total turn-off, including the pathetically race-baiting appeals.

    Meanwhile, Obama has kept on “keeping on” and he’s gotten where he has to be. I have no doubts to throwing my support for Barack Obama this fall.

  33. sfsinger wrote:

    You know some people just refuse to see the forest for the trees. They will use any excuse to hold onto their prejudice. And yes, I say prejudice, because if after ALL that you have seen if you are still not moved then you are just lost! A legit policy question can be answered. One’s personal racio/social unease is not something anyone else can resolve. Anyone who has memorized talking points to use as a mantra to oppose a real critique of their candidate of choice’s behavior and actions is being willfully ignorant. What do you have to say about the campaign finance fraud trial against the Clintons being tried in California RIGHT NOW that is on virtual media blackout by the corporate media at a time they are using their personal fortune to fund her campaign? And being a person of color does not give an automatic understanding of other people of color’s collective existence in this country [contributions and obstacles] and what has occurred with them specifically. Compassion, critical thinking, open-mindedness and clarity are not traits every person possesses – neither is self-esteem or inclusiveness.

  34. Shauna wrote:

    I have two problems with this post:
    1) Twice you say that someone “happens to be” a race, once when referring to your friend, and then again at the end. It was on this site or some other anti-racist blog that I read about how silly that statement is. The blog was on how that statement ignores how our lives are often shaped by our race in this society.

    2) Also, do you really think that your life hasn’t been shaped by being a female? Read some feminist literature or blogs and you’ll gain perspective on this.

    But let me add that I enjoyed how your post openly stated that you identified with Obama because you too faced discrimination based on race and age, showing how often the political is personal. (I am also an Obama supporter, but as a female I have too often been offended by sexist attacks against HRC and would support either of them over McCain)

  35. Chica Dificil wrote:

    As a Latina/Chicana feminista, it always angers me when people assume, most especially the main stream media, that ALL Latinos support HRC. There is a growing number of Latinos who have become disenchanted with HRC after voting for her in the primary (like my die hard Mexican born father who loved Hillary and on his own has now swung over to Obama). As a progressive Latina, I have supported Obama since day one. LIKE TONI MORRISON SAID REGARDING WHY SHE IS SUPPORTING OBAMA, “Neither his race, his gender, her race or her gender was enough. I needed something else, and the something else was his wisdom.”

  36. thesciencegirl wrote:

    I’d like to echo many of the sentiments expressed by other posters. I am a biracial (b/w) woman, and when this election season began, I was really unsure as to which democratic candidate to support. The week of the New Hampshire primary, I read up on the candidates’ positions on issues that matter to me (the economy, education, funding for scientific research, healthcare reform, foreign policy, etc.) and I found that I aligned quite closely with both Obama and Hillary (their platforms aren’t all that different), but that many of Clinton’s soundbites really resonated with me. And when I watched the NH debate, I thought Clinton performed really well, and I got pissed off when it seemed like Obama and Edwards were tag-teaming her. And the more the press harped on her showing emotion and the more sexist crap I heard, the more I defended her and appreciated her strength. I also had a lot of distaste for what I saw as the “trendiness” of Obama as a candidate… you know, the college kids who have Obama facebook groups and who probably won’t bother to actually vote. And I was waiting for him to prove to me that he could back up his beautiful speeches with some details and actions. I wasn’t convinced, though I liked them both quite a bit. I decided to support Clinton. And I got a lot of flack/surprise that I didn’t automatically support the black candidate (which I found incredibly insulting to my intelligence. Why wouldn’t I consider the real issues just like any white voter?)

    And then.

    As the weeks went by, I heard more and more negativity and, most troubling, racism from Clinton staff and supporters, and I saw Obama handle it with grace. I saw him being pigeonholed into the corner we all knew he’d be in, where he had to respond to every ignorant or offensive attack with calm, understanding words, no hint of anger, no sign that he was “too” black. Clinton, conversely, seemed to be upping her forcefulness to combat the sexism she was experiencing. Nevertheless, the more I watched the two of them, the less I really believed Hillary. I stopped seeing an experienced, intelligent woman and started seeing a politician who would do anything for success. And it left a bad taste in my mouth.

    The final turning point for me was Obama’s speech on race. That day, I saw a man who shares similar racial background to mine, who was being dogged in the media for association with his pastor (whose words were twisted anyway), and he gave an honest, powerful, gutsy speech on race that echoed things I have been saying for years. He took a critical look at things that affect my life daily, and he did it with understanding and compassion. And it reduced me to tears. I was moved. I can’t recall ever being moved by a politician before.

    In the weeks since then, I have become increasingly frustrated by Clinton’s campaigning style and more impressed by Obama. My vote changed because he earned it. Not because of my skin color.

  37. Manju wrote:

    in light of these comments, i think its important to remember what the southern strategy really is. as kevin phillips stated in 1970:

    “From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that… but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.”

    the Clinton’s have long known how to play race. they tried desperately to turn obama into a jesse jackson, knowing what a reaction that would get. bubba in SC, gerry ferroro, bob johnson even gloria steinam’s comments makes sense in this light.

    add that the bonus of anti-Muslim xenophobia: madrassa, bob kerrey, hillary’s 60min appearance, 3am ad, maggie willaims and steph tubbs johnson (somalia is his native country), etc.

    they came close, but it didn’t work. obama’s right. america has changed.

  38. Onion wrote:

    I can only speak for myself (black, male, was poor but moved up to middle class) but neither Obama’s race nor his sex played into my decision to vote for him. I’ve seen many critics complain about the fact that he doesn’t strongly stand up on black issues. A fair enough critique as far as that goes, but one that assumes that the issues that he does stand up on don’t effect blacks. This is not true. I find that many of the things he and Edwards (who I had been leaning toward until he dropped out) effect ALL Americans, and to focus on one subgroup at the expense of all the others (even if it is a group to which I belong and benefit from the attention) is not the proper way to change the system for the better. This whole furor over Senator Clinton’s poorly worded observations, seemingly focusing only on middle class whites at the expense of everyone else, just goes to reinforce my belief. He couldn’t win on black issues. He shouldn’t even try. Rather, he needs to work on improving the country as a whole. That includes race issues, gender, employment, and a whole host of things that go beyond the relationship between his skin color and my own.

  39. annie wrote:

    Fantastic post, Latoya. Thank you for writing it.

    In the beginning of this race, I would have been excited for Obama or Clinton to win. I’d already volunteered for Obama’s SEnate campaign, but I would have been fine with Hillary.

    The Clinton campaign lost me when they began making race an issue. I lost respect for them, and this latest USA Today debacle is just another instance of the race-baiting. It’s terrible. The way they’ve emphasized Obama’s race is appalling. It’s one thing to hold him up as an example of a mixed-race man who’s succeeded. It’s another to imply that his race is somehow a reason to keep him from succeeding. This white lady is absolutely appalled.

  40. Shelby wrote:

    Interesting post. I’ve been reading this blog for awhile, but never posted a comment until now.

    Shauna-
    Although I don’t think you meant it to sound this way, your comment to the author about how gender shaped her life seems condescending.
    To me, your comment assumes that
    1. The author has NOT read feminist literature or blogs and that
    2. Doing so is inconsistent with having the perspective that one’s race has been the primary force shaping his/her life

    Like the author, I’m also a young black woman who is aware of and deals with feminist issues. And one thing that bothers me is that many other feminist women I talk to assume that my strong identification with the black community (over my less strong identification as a woman) is somehow flawed or less enlightened.
    I know that many black women feel that feminists invalidate their experiences as black americans. And I don’t think that you meant for your comment to come off that way, but I think it’s just something to watch out for.

  41. Jaye wrote:

    I am going to come to the defense of white people. The media makes it sound like working class white voters are a bunch of ignorant, racist sheep who simply don’t like the black guy because he’s black…Clinton got the white vote by 60-40 margins IN THE MIDDLE OF REV. WRIGHT SCANDAL…the media was playing an endless loop of this preacher shouting about black power and his disgust with America, and 40% of white people STILL voted for Obama, no questions asked. I think that’s a pretty significant number.

    Yes, some white people are racist, and voted for Clinton because they didn’t want to vote for the black guy, I do think that is what put her over the top for the win. But some white people voted for Clinton just because they actually like her better and think she is the better candidate. And not every white person that voted for Clinton wouldn’t vote for Obama. To be honest, I am impressed by the huge numbers of white people voting for Obama despite all this controversy. A 40-60 margin is not a racist voting bloc, and to paint all working class white people as prejudiced because of a 20% difference in the midst of the worst few weeks of Obama’s campaign where race has become a central issue…I am actually amazed by the number of white people who seem like they just don’t care about the race-baiting, the Muslim-insinuations, the radical-black insinuations, the flag pin issue, etc.

  42. Ms. Four wrote:

    This white feminist mom enthusiastically supporting Obama gets sick of

    1) The assumption from other white women that because I’m a woman and a feminist, I should support Hillary

    2) The comments in general about white people supporting Hillary. Most white people I know are all Obama all the time.

  43. jvansteppes wrote:

    Shauna I second the assertion that your assumption that Peterson hasn’t read anything feminist and if she did she’d know better. Perhaps you should go back to the posts about the white feminist movement and its alienating effects on her. Telling her that she didn’t know how gender had affected her own life is basically an accusation of false consciousness.

    Why is it that when black people vote for Obama its a race decision and when white people vote for a white candidate it isn’t? And how the hell do people keep conflating the two as if black people being excited about finally having a black presidential candidate who might actually win is comparable to white people voting white as a way of voting against people of color.
    If you doubt that’s what its often about go look up the pictures of the white people holding the sign that says ‘vote for hillary, not barack HUSSEIN obama’. Having said that I do think watching her trying to shore up those votes at nascar rallies is good for a laugh.

  44. kiki wrote:

    Great, great post Latoya.

    While I agree with Chica I have to say that one thing I haven’t seen addressed is the fact that during this election cycle Latinos have been put into a difficult position by some blacks and whites who view us with suspicion and see this as a possible litmus test of loyalty. Are you going with us or them?

    It’s depressing to have your choice framed in this way.

  45. Ric Caric wrote:

    While acknowledging Latoya’s points, I still think that Hillary Clinton’s campaign has been largely progressive in terms of the American racial drama.

    Hillary’s campaign has been progressive in two ways.

    First, the Hillary campaign decided early to fight Obama for the black vote. Hillary didn’t just “assume” that Obama would win the black vote in places like South Carolina. She went into black community and fought him. I’m 54 and the last time I remember a white Democrat fighting a black Democrat for the black vote was in the 70’s.

    Sure, Hillary made an inept about MLK and her surrogates made really stupid comments about Obama. But, I believe that was mostly a matter of the poor skills that white Democrats have in dealing with African-Americans and racial issues.

    The Hillary campaign paid a just price for their racial ineptitude in losing the black vote. But I believe they deserve retrospective credit for making the effort.

    The second area where Hillary has been progressive was to specifically go after the white working class vote and to name that vote as a “white” vote. One of the unacknowledged legacies of segregation is that white people have been working overtime to come up with honorific titles for themselves that aren’t connected with race or the history of American race relations. Refering to themselves (ourselves given that I’m white) as the “mainstream,” “typical Americans,” “normal Americans,” or just “Americans,” whites have sought to escape the moral burden of segregation.

    In this context, I think it’s progressive that Hillary named her constituency as a “white” constituency. With this language, Hillary identifies white people as one group in the United States but as one group among many rather than “typical Americans.”

    In labeling the white working class as “hard-working,” I think Hillary was trying to distinguish them from Obama’s white upper-scale demographic rather than black people. But it’s still a tinny complement and I can see why it ticked off Latoya. Given that I’m a hard-working college professor, it should tick me off as well.

    I’ve been supporting Hillary all along even though I’m in Obama’s white demographic. But now that the end game is here, I think it’s important that Obama and Hillary supporters put more focus on their common ground.

    That goes for me too. I’ve generally found Obama’s white supporters to be pretty annoying and I’m around them a lot (given that I’m married to one of them). But I’ve got to swallow my pride, recognize that Obama believes in most of the things I believe in, and open my wallet for the general election campaign.

  46. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Shauna –

    1. Read more of the blog, particularly my references to my friends, and you’ll understand why I chose those words. You can start with my post on “Can You Be Anti-Racist if You’re Anti-White.”

    2. Click our tab that says “feminism.” And read. Or, search Feministe and Feministing for my name.

    3. I am assuming you came into our space from somewhere else. When entering a new space, it is always better to ask than to assume. Just food for thought.

    RicCaric –

    Great points. I will slightly disagree on the Hillary has been fighting hard for black votes as I haven’t seen much evidence of this since Bill’s “Jesse Jackson” reference. Then again, it is in that time frame that I unsubscribed from a lot of pro Hillary blogs, so I could be wrong.

    In this context, I think it’s progressive that Hillary named her constituency as a “white” constituency. With this language, Hillary identifies white people as one group in the United States but as one group among many rather than “typical Americans.”

    You know, I never thought of it that way. But I can see what you’re saying on this. I’ll think on that.

  47. Robert G. Pielke wrote:

    As someone noted a while ago in this campaign, “race is America’s ‘Original Sin.’” It’s an intrinsic element of our Constitution and the Amendments. It’s the essence of American history from the Colonies, the “3/5″ clause, the Civil War, Reconstruction, Plessy v. Ferguson, Brown v. Board, Segregation, the Civil Rights Movement…and now the Democaratic Primary of 2008.

    Sure, sexism exists and is intolerable, but racism is an infinitely more serious problem. Unless we resolve it, the “United” States will remain a chimera.

  48. Ric Caric wrote:

    I agree with Latoya about Hillary giving up on her effort to appeal to black voters after S. Carolina. Still, I think the original effort was significant.

  49. J wrote:

    RicCaric-

    I think you’re straining a bit to give Clinton more credit than she deserves. I don’t think that campaigning in the black community in South Carolina qualifies as “progressive.” This was an important state where blacks made up a very high percentage of the democratic vote. Campaigning in the community was a political necessity. Let’s also not forget how the Clintons conducted themselves in that state. First, Bill and other campaign surrogates completely dismissed Obama and his campaign (remember fairy tale, Lyndon Johnson/MLK, shuck and jive?). Then, when some people grumbled about it; they went into full attack mode, accusing Obama of trying to play the race card and trying to turn him into the next Jesse Jackson.

    Now, here is where I always part ways with people who defend this type of behavior. Do I think the Clintons are racist? No. That question doesn’t matter one iota to me.

    What does matter to me is that since they realized they were going to lose South Carolina, their strategy has been to dismiss the significance of states with a lot of black voters, and more recently of black voters themselves. These are not accidental gaffes. This has been a deliberate, there is a pattern here, and this is the “electability” argument that this campaign has subtly and not so subtly been making. There is nothing progressive about it.

    I don’t know or care if it’s racist, or if it’s just arrogant and cynical. Really, which one is worse? In some ways, I’d rather it be that they are racist than that they are willing to throw black voters under the bus for the sake of political expediency.

    I hope you don’t take this as my attacking you. I just wanted to put that out there.

  50. Sarah J wrote:

    To whomever mentioned that Obama didn’t do anything about Katrina:

    Hillary Clinton didn’t even GO to Louisiana before its primary.

  51. DivergentDana wrote:

    “Sure, sexism exists and is intolerable, but racism is an infinitely more serious problem.”

    *hand stapled to forehead*

  52. Mogs wrote:

    As a Constitutionalist, I don’t like Obama, Hillary, or McCain. Any of them. I criticize McCain, and people smile and nod. I criticize Hillary, and people scowl and accuse me of betraying my gender. I criticize Obama, and people usually don’t straight-out call me racist (I’m white, if anyone cares) but they usually make some remark about how a lot of white people won’t vote for a black man. This usually comes a few minutes after I’ve just said that the person I’d really like to see in the White House is Alan Keyes, a conservative who was considered for the Constitution party ticket. Oh, and he’s also black. So because I prefer Alan Keyes to Barack Obama, I’m racist against black people??? How does that meet any twisted standard of logic at all? Do conservative political values negate blackness or something? Because I can think of quite a few black, conservative people that I know who would not like that idea at all. I’m also SO sick and tired of hearing how because I’m a woman I should vote for Hillary. I would, really I would, except for the one tiny little fact that she and I have COMPLETELY opposite political philosophies. But aside from that minor detail, yes i’d love to vote for her! She’s a WOMAN, after all!
    Race and gender played no role in my choices about this election. REALLY. Hey, I would vote for a little green alien with stalk eyes if I thought he(she? it?) would faithfully follow the Constitution. I’m just frustrated by so much talk about race and gender in the media and so little discussion of actual POLICY.

  53. A. wrote:

    First, the media kept pushing the “Is Barack Obama Black Enough?” question as a reason that Black people wouldn’t vote for Obama. When they learned that that did no good, now they want to cry that black people are too united.

    The media was freaking feeding on that division, and they’re learning what “United We Stand” means.

    Besides, Black people have been voting for white males since we’ve been able to vote. All of a sudden, we have a black candidate, and that should suddenly turn black people off as much as it has turned off white blue-collar voters.

  54. Shauna wrote:

    I’ve actually visited this blog and feministing regularly over the last 6 months, they’re my favorites because unlike most anti-racist and feminist blogs they tend to have a discussion rather than being complete ideologues who dismiss anyone who doesn’t agree with them in a totalitarian mentality. And the way in which people disagreed with my comment has reinforced my view that this is one of the less ideological blogs. I’ve also already read everything that you directed me towards, although I obviously did miss that you have clearly read feminist ideas and I would like to apologize if this comment came off as condescending.

    But I still think that saying that you have never experienced discrimination based on your gender (”that was not one of my struggles”) has got to be untrue. At the very least, your life is surely much different than it would’ve been if you were a male. I mean imagine if you weren’t childless, the discrimination in the workplace you would face. Or if you continue to be childless when you are older, the chastising you will face from your peers. And I think you have even blogged about beauty standards–if you were a male, you would not be constantly bombarded with the idea that the way you look is important to your worth.

    @ Shelby I didn’t say that there was anything wrong with primarily identifying as black. I just think that being a woman of any race shapes your life. @jvansteppes I don’t think that a flawed feminist movement should make a person decide that gender hasn’t at all shaped their life. Like I said earlier, I find that feminist and anti-racist movements too often dismiss any objections, which doesn’t help in winning over supporters. But I still identify as an anti-racist and a feminist. Saying gender discrimination hasn’t affected you plays into the view of some that race and gender don’t matter in contemporary society, and therefore everyone can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

  55. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Shauna –

    As I explained before, and Wendi neatly summarized, I don’t really have problems because I am a woman, it’s because I am a black woman.

    This is not a constant among women of color. Some women feel pains from their gender more acutely. Others feel pain from their race more. I feel a lot less pain from issues of gender, but that’s probably because a large, black female is often desexualized, except by members of her own community.

    Also, I find it a little odd you insist on assigning a universal experience to gender. You haven’t lived my life – how would you know?

    I have written often about sexual violence toward young women of color. That is one way gender manifests negatively. Other issues of entitlement by men in our community. No so much outside the community though, which is a problem in itself.

    But when I wrote:

    I dealt with discrimination based on my blackness and based on my age.

    It was exactly that. The discrimination I have personally faced did not come in the form of gender discrimination. Just the facts of my life. I did not ever state that gender discrimination or race discrimination doesn’t matter because I’ve never felt it.

  56. Shauna wrote:

    Thank you that cleared up a lot of what I was curious about. I grew up in a community where discrimination was often dismissed as not existing so I am very sensitive to statements that might support that view.

  57. Celeste wrote:

    I’ve been watching this conversation and i agree with Latoya that most of the shit I’ve had to deal with is because of my age and race. As it is, sometimes there’s this animosity between female nurses/tech’s and female physicians. So the one thing I have in common with many of the support staff doesn’t really count. If anything, it seems that male physicians are treated better than female ones are by support staff. Add to that being a person of color and there you have it. So I don’t see many of the female support stafff as allies. Some of the nice ones are nice but treat me like their daughter, as in referring to me as “young lady”. Oh, and don’t get me started about always having to make sure no one finds you uppity or that you have an attitude. Some people are very quick to do the faulty math of young+female+black=attitude problem.