The Muslim Women of Hip-Hop

by Guest Contributor Duniya, originally published at Muslimah Media Watch

Although still a male-dominated realm, women have been an important part of the hip hop world both as artists and consumers. Anaya McMurray, in her journal article* Hotep and Hip-Hop: Can Black Muslim Women Be Down with Hip-Hop? explores the relation of Black Muslim women to hip hop music and asks the question, “Can Black Muslim women be a part of hip hop and Islam?”**

McCurray says that unique spaces in the discourses surrounding Islam are often ignored, consequently ignoring certain groups of Muslims, including Black Muslim women. Black Muslim women have become “agents in negotiating Islamic faith and hip-hop culture.” She aims to examine the ways in which Black Muslim women create unique spaces and negotiate Islam and hip hop in their music, as well as ways in which society represents Islam and hip hop which marginalize Black Muslim women. She does so by discussing the works of Erykah Badu, Eve, and herself as Black Muslim women hip hop artists.

When speaking of Erykah Badu we find out that the Islam McMurray tells us Badu follows is that of the Nation of Gods and Earths, or Five Percenters. Five Percenters are those who follow the teachings of Clarence 13x, a former member of the Nation of Islam. Five Percenters do consider themselves Muslims but not in the religious sense – in the political sense. Therefore, many mainstream Muslims do not consider them Muslims. And in reality their beliefs have very little in common with Sunni or Shia Islam. McMurray tells us how Badu does create a space for Muslim women in her songs by rapping about Five Percenter practices – practices which encourage men and women to remain within their respective, traditional roles. Beliefs which seem quite sexist but ones which Badu says are quite flexible, in her music. However, as Five Percenters have so little in common with mainstream Islam, and in fact consider themselves a part of a political movement rather than a religious one, using Badu to represent Muslim women in hip hop struck me as false advertising. She does not, from my understanding, represent the religion but rather the political movement.

The situation of Eve is not so clear. She has been quoted as saying that she finds Sunni Islam beautiful but cannot follow it properly. McMurray argues that, according to her calculations, Eve is a Muslim woman, though even McMurray admits she cannot be sure. McMurray reads Eve as a Muslim woman. Eve refers to Allah in her work as well as thanks Allah on her CD credits. Additionally, McMurray tells us that her own personal communications indicate that she is Muslim. McMurray makes an interesting observation about people’s assumptions about Eve and her religion. In one song Eve says “I thank Allah every night and pray there’s no turning back.” In many online lyrics sources this line is written as “I thank the Lord every night and pray there’s no turning back.” McMurray tells us that people, on all sides (within and without) just cannot fathom Eve as a Muslim so would never assume that she would use “Allah.” She tells us that people have never even asked the question of her being Muslim despite her use of “Allah”.

The author then presents her own creation of a unique space which proves to be the most fascinating of the three. She proves to be an intellectual rapper referencing not only academics such as Tricia Rose, Chandra Talpade Mohanty, and Fatima Mernissi, but also the Qur’an. McMurray states that it is her Islamic spirituality which guides her lyrics. For her Islam is a key source of inspiration for her work, in which she commonly critiques patriarchy.

McMurray presents another image of Muslim women. In her paper, she states that the images of Badu, Eve and herself challenge the traditional images of Muslim women and women in hip hop. She states that “Our images challenge the misrepresentation that all Muslim women are Middle Eastern and/or that Muslim women cover at all times, and don’t have the freedom to pursue careers in music and entertainment.” Additionally, she states that “we challenge the assumption that women who are not visibly marked as belonging to another faith are by default Christian.”

McMurray critiques the Muslim community, the hip hop community, and mainstream society for making assumptions about women in hip hop in general, and Black Muslim women specifically. Though at times her examples of Muslim women may seem weak, McMurray makes some very important points worth consideration about the space for Black Muslim women in hip hop. Muslims don’t see Black Muslim women in hip hop as Muslim because of what they wear and/or their controversial lyrics; many rappers don’t see them as Muslim because they would rather see women in hip hop as objects; mainstream doesn’t see them as Muslim because Christianity has been so important to the mainstream Black community. Therefore, Black Muslim women in hip hop are left in a difficult position where they have to struggle to create and maintain a space. Further critiques of their unique spaces would be interesting to see.

—

*Reference:
McMurray, A. (2008). Hotep and hip-hop: Can Black Muslim women be down with hip hop? Meridians: Feminism, Race, Transnationalism, 8(1), 74-92.

** Unfortunately I cannot post the article here but I have provided the reference so that if you have access to academic journals you can look it up. If you are interested in reading it and cannot access it please email us (at Muslimah Media Watch) and we can email it to you.

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black women, islam, and hiphop « revolution of the lilies on 07 May 2008 at 11:43 am

[...] black muslim women and hiphop. Gorgeous pictures of Erykah Badu and Eve. And a discussion as to what consitutues Islam. It [...]
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Comments

Abu Sinan wrote:

I think the problem is, to a certain extent, that Islam in the R & B and Hip Hop scene is a fad. More often than not it is about making a statement, not any really knowledge of, or dedication to, a particular religion.

The 5%ers are not considered Muslim by anyone in the mainstream Muslim community. Actually, some of their beliefs actually are very specifically making them outside the bounds of Islam completely, the same with Nation of Islam, although the later has gone a long way to coming closer to real Islam.

You ought to do a story about people who were born Muslim or come from a tradition Muslim background who sing, artists like Natacha Atlas who has worked with many figures in the music scene, both here in the USA and in Europe.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:02 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

There has always been a huge racial and cultural divide in the U.S Muslim community. Many Black American Muslims often complain about feeling alienated from Muslim immigrants (including African immigrants), citing both their skin colour and the fact that they’re just as American as any other White Americans.

Black Muslims have complained about rampant racism and ignorant that’s very common with Muslim immigrants in the States.

And then there’s Muslim immigrants who complain feeling left out of Black Muslim culture, feeling that Black American Muslims are too “Westernized.”

Somebody should write an article about that. It’s very fascinating.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:29 am ¶
dnA wrote:

5% ideas are not incompatible with Sunni Islam, at least not for many of the practitioners. There are a lot of 5% in Harlem at least, who are also Muslims. Early Nas is an example of 5%/Muslim convergence.

Muslim men are far more well respresented in Hip-hop: Nas, Mos, J-Live, Lupe, Q-Tip, Ice Cube, Black Thought, Beanie Siegel, Freeway…Lupe strikes me as the most artist whose music is most informed by Islam as a global phenomenon, but it’s interesting that Islam appeals so strongly to men in Hip-hop.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:10 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:

I would think it would be diffuclt tobe a modest woman and be a hip hop artist when being half-anked with your tiggo biddies covered by pasties seems to be the only acceptable route for women. Muslim men wouldn’t have to comprimise their religious beliefs as much with the personal image they choose to project. I’ve seen big ol’ booty in Q-tip and ice cube videos. Ice Cube’s lyrics (”killed the pootenany”, anyone) in the past have not been so respectful to women, either.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
Anu wrote:

“I think the problem is, to a certain extent, that Islam in the R & B and Hip Hop scene is a fad. More often than not it is about making a statement, not any really knowledge of, or dedication to, a particular religion.”

Abu Sinan: I disagree–do you mind providing some more support/examples for your statement? Islam has long been a part of a significant minority of the African-American community, all the way back to slavery. Hip hop has its roots in Black culture, so a Black hip hop artist professing to be Muslim is not a fad.

There is also a double standard for women. Who knows how closely Eve/Erykah or Lupe adhere to the tenets of their religion–its mainly because of the sexualized nature of the women’s images and music that they are viewed as less authentic.

Also, a Black artist who said that they “liked Christianity but couldn’t follow it completely” would most likely be considered Christian–why is there a different standard for Islam?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

“You ought to do a story about people who were born Muslim or come from a tradition Muslim background ”

Additionally Abu Sinan you may want to clarify what you mean by “tradition Muslim background.” It seems from your post that you are implying that being Black is not a traditional Muslim background. I hope you realize that this can be seen as quite exclusive and not to mention inaccurate.

This sounds like the type of attitude McMurray was highlighting as problematic.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 1:33 pm ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Farheen,

That certainly was not what I meant. I didnt even think of it that way. What I meant is people that were born into Muslim famlies. My point being, cover hip hop and musicians that come from Muslim families and backgrounds.

Most of the people dicussed have no familial background that is Muslim and if they do it is distant. I think there will be a difference if you cover people who come from a Muslim background rather than those who have converted to one of the faiths that is wrongly associated with Islam.

I also mean people who come from view of the religion that is based on mainstream historical Islam, unlike the NoI or 5%ers.

I, personally, do not really view most of these people as Muslims. Because someone calls themselves a Muslim does not mean they are a Muslim. I could call myself Hindu, but I am not.

A Muslim is someone who conforms their lives, to a lessor or greater degree, to the demands made of them by the religion. Simply self labeling doesnt make one a Muslim.

One’s actions, combined with their beliefs, make them a Muslim. If you your beliefs and actions are not reflective of Islam, then you are not a Muslim.

5%ers and NoI beliefs are outside the norms of Islam, as a matter of fact, many of their beliefs would actually be considered “Shirk” the worst sin in Islam and move them way outside of Islam. The views of the NoI about Elijah Mohammad are certainly shirk and anyone who believes them certainly puts themselves outside of Islam.

At it’s most basic level, one is not a Muslim if they have not said the shahada, but it moves on from there. Is the shahada and it’s beliefs the core of the NoI or the 5%ers? If not, they are not Muslim. It is the most basic, fundamental essense of what being a Muslim is. You say it every time you pray, and if you are lucky, you get to say it before you die.

To each their own, but I believe the mainstream media has far too often been pretty liberal in who and what they call “Muslim”. More often than not this is then combined with something as a way to attack Islam or Muslims.

I remember one such article about “Islam” in the hip hop world and tattoos. It talked about all of these “Muslims” and then talked about the tattoos they got in Arabic, often words like “sharmoota.”

They totally ignored the fact that none of these people were probably Muslim in any meaningful sense, and then had to point out they were getting words like “sharmoota” (slut in Arabic) tattooed on themselves.

It was a perfect example of using a very light hold on “being Muslim” as a way to attack Islam. I guess it would be like using Demi Moore to attack Judaism because she claims this or that about Kabbalah.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 3:15 pm ¶
dnA wrote:

Yeah I love that…A friend of mine is a cheerleader for the Miami Heat and people (non-muslims) are always lecturing her on not being a “good muslim” because of what she does, but you’d never hear anyone say something similar about Christian or Jewish women in similar professions. (cheerleading, dancing, ect.)

Posted 07 May 2008 at 3:17 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

Abu Sinan,

What does this have to do with attacking Islam? How does tattoing slut on your arm attack Islam? Do you expect all Muslims to be the same and act the same? We are trying to get away from this “all Muslims are exactly the same” mentality. We are a diverse population and within that population you will have Musims of all kinds doing many different things, who will still call themselves Muslim. If someone calls themselves a Muslim then they are as far as other people are concerned. No human has any right to say they are not.

Anyhow, only Erykah Badu identifies herself as a Five Percenter. What about Eve or the author herself? What assumptions are you making about them? Why are you just focused on Erykah Badu?

Please don’t go into any sort of holier-than-thou tirade against other Muslims.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 6:53 pm ¶
Korolev wrote:

Islam is a religion, first and foremost. How can some one be a Muslim without the religion-part? That’s like saying you have a car with no engine or wheels.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 5:39 am ¶
Korolev wrote:

And another point – while I am aware that Islam is a very diverse religion, encompassing over 1 billion people, I am also aware that just calling yourself a Muslim does not make oneself a Muslim.

I am secular. Even if I did call myself Muslim, that would not make me a Muslim, especially since I do eat pork, I do not pray five times a day, and I do not worship a God. No matter how many times I call myself a Muslim, it would be still be a lie.

I am Chinese/English. I could call myself Black, but that would not make me Black. Even though all of humanity has African ancestors, most people in the Black community, welcoming as they are, would not call me black either, no matter how vocal or fervent I was in claiming it.

A label is just that, a label. Islam is a religion, and the word Muslim applies to someone who believes in the religion of Islam, and if I’m correct, follows the 5 “major” rules.

I know that there are many different types of Muslims in the world, and as someone who as grown up secular all my life, I can’t really say I’m an expert on any of them. Some wear head-scarves, some don’t. Some drink alcohol, some (most) don’t (even though I do believe the Koran says you can’t drink the stuff). But all of them believe, as a necessity, the existence of Allah and the holiness of his prophet Muhammad. You cannot be a Muslim without any of that. You can not be a Muslim “Politically-only” because it is a Religion, first and foremost.

A catholic who never attended church, never celebrated Christmas, never prayed, wouldn’t be much of a Catholic. An atheist who nevertheless believed in spirits or ghosts, would be an atheist.

Anyone can call themselves anything they want, but that doesn’t make it so. I can’t call myself Chinese or English, no matter how much I would like to, because I am half of each. 50% of my DNA came from my father or my mother. I couldn’t call myself Chinese anymore than I could call myself English, because logically, it wouldn’t make any sense. So I’m chinse/english. I’m half. I’m mixed. I have no problem with that, because that’s the reality of the situation. Even if I did want to call myself “English” or “Chinese”, I couldn’t, because that would be illogical, in spite of what I feel.

The world has logic to it. The Five Percent-ers are not Muslims. They align themselves politically with Muslims (as sometimes I do, in the support of a Palestinian State), but they themselves are not Muslims, even if they call themselves that.

Eve would not be considered a Muslim by most, but since she does seem to believe in Allah, her claim has some weight to it. However, if she shares nothing else in common aside from a belief in God, she might as well call herself Christian or Jewish or Celtic.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 5:59 am ¶
Korolev wrote:

Sorry, I meant “would not be an atheist”

Posted 08 May 2008 at 6:00 am ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Farheen,

It is very clear that this is being used to attack Muslims and Islam.

Would you say the same thing if articles were being written about how David Koresh and his followers and their “link to Christianity”?

The 5%ers and NoI are cults and when the media attempts to portray a story about them and link them to Islam it is clear they are using the bad behavior and bizzare beliefs of these people as a way to tar all Muslims.

If the other artists are indeed Muslims then I would have to say “alhamdulillah” but talking about “Muslims” and then giving us a bunch of 5%ers and NoI members is completely misleading. They are not Muslims.

You write “If someone calls themselves a Muslim then they are as far as other people are concerned. ”

If you are familiar with hadith and The Qur’an it is clear that there are certain things that make one a Muslim, simply deciding to call yourself a Muslim doesnt make you one.

You think you can be a Muslim and, say, worship Satan? Can you be a Muslim and believe that Jesus is the son of God? Can you be a Muslim and deny that Mohammad is the messenger of God and is His last prophet?

Of course not, so it is clear that calling yourself a Muslim doesnt make you a Muslim.

Sorry. Some people want to liberalise Islam out of existence, others are extremists who want to drag us back into the 7th century.

The trick is to reject BOTH sides and choose moderation, the middle of the road. Dont get caught out on either side.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 7:43 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

as a liberal Muslim feminist, I have to agree with Abu Sinan. the 5 Percenters are NOT Muslim and have NOTHING in common with Muslims (whether Sunni, Shia, Orthodox, or liberal, etc) or Islam or the Qur’an.

I don’t think the 5 Percenters use the Qur’an as part of their faith.

Calling the 5 Percenters “Muslim” is a huge paradox. It would be like calling Scientologists “Christian.” Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.

Also, the ignorant ASSUMPTION that Black American Muslims are members of NOI or 5% is a dangerous, false stereotyping and it’s unfair for Black Muslims who don’t follow NOI or 5%, but rather, practice mainstream Islam.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 9:34 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

*looks at the comments*

Wow, this got interesting. I guess I’ll have to do a write up of that Vibe article on Hip-Hop and Islam. Y’all are going to have a field day with that.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 9:36 am ¶
shirky wrote:

“You think you can be a Muslim and, say, worship Satan? Can you be a Muslim and believe that Jesus is the son of God? Can you be a Muslim and deny that Mohammad is the messenger of God and is His last prophet?”

Well, ‘Jews for Jesus’ seem happy living with the contradictions. Unusual, but it’s their business right?

Posted 08 May 2008 at 9:38 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

@shirky:16,

I’ve actually heard some of my Jewish American friends bashing “Jews for Jesus,” and telling me that it’s an undercover campaign trying to lure Jews away from Judaism.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 10:34 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

I’ve heard “Jews for Jesus” bashing acouple times as well.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 10:52 am ¶
shirky wrote:

well, I’m sure you have, in no way do I dispute that there is plenty of bashing of odd religions and beliefs.
I think people do get to declare their own religion though. Asterisks and all.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 11:38 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

@Shirky:

well, yeah, I DO agree with you. People should have the right to call themselves what they want.

5 Percenters can call themselves “Muslim” if they want (and it doesn’t bother me, either).

But the point is that: they will NEVER be considered Muslim by many Muslims, whether American or overseas.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 12:03 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

Abu Sinan,

Have you even read the post? The post is about Black Muslim women in hip hop. Not about Five Percenters and whether they are Muslim or not. The Five Percenter thing is only a small portion of the article. The post even tells us that Five Percenters do not consider themselves Muslims. Did you read that part? You seem to be getting worked up over nothing.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:41 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

And I still don’t understand how Black Muslim women in hip hop is being used to attack Islam.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:44 pm ¶
JDsg wrote:

@ Farheen (#9): Do you expect all Muslims to be the same and act the same?

To be the same? No. To think the same and act the same? Absolutely. There are certain beliefs and behaviors that are absolute requirements before one can call him or herself a Muslim. As a friend once said to me regarding Islam, “This ain’t no club, man!”

@ Feminist Punk! (#20): Heh, you said that before I could.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 7:55 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

JDsg:

It’s not possible for all Muslims to think and act the same. There are a variety of interpretations. And no one interpretation is the one right one. All of them could be valid. Why is the Muslim community so averse to diversity?

Posted 08 May 2008 at 8:28 pm ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

Why is the Muslim community so averse to diversity?

Um, maybe because that’s what YOU think? there are different forms of flourishing Muslim communities in India, Turkey, and many other nations overseas. there’s a LOT of diversity in Islam, and many Muslims have welcomed it through-out history and to this day.

You just don’t hear about it on the news. After all, the U.S media likes to paint us Muslims as all the one same angry Brown Guy with the Beard.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 11:57 pm ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Farheen,

You seem to NOT be getting it when everyone else is.

I made a choice to center my thoughts on a particular aspect of the article and the concept.

It is rather easy to see why and how these people are being used to attack Islam. When some of them are involved in the most immoral and nonsensical things, it is then tied back to Islam and Muslims, even when it is clear that many of them are not even really Muslim, but members of pseudo Muslim cults.

The Muslim community is diverse, I think I am a great example of that. I am a white dude, former punker, converted to Islam, married to a Saudi lady, with two great little boys. Alhamdulillah.

I am a poster child for Islamic diversity.

There are many interpretations in Islam, sure, but there are certain things that ALL Muslims agree put you outside the bounds of Islam, and follow another God, following prophets after Mohammad are two of the biggest.

If you do that then Sunni and Shi’ite alike, you are NOT a Muslim.

We can argue about whether or not a cut that bleeds invalidates wudo, but following Elijah Mohammed? No arguments there!

Posted 09 May 2008 at 10:41 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

Abu –

Let me point a couple things out from the piece that I liked to reference.

In reference to Eve:

She has been quoted as saying that she finds Sunni Islam beautiful but cannot follow it properly.

So, would it be wrong to still term Eve a Muslim even though she has lapsed in practice? A lot of Christians also experience lapses in faith before coming back. And if Eve still believes in the five pillars, why would she claim her identity to be something else?

The understanding of Islam in the black community is undoubtedly different from your own. It would make sense to me that Erykah would call herself culturally Muslim, based on black experiences in America. But I understand that Islam does not necessarily accept that designation.

Maybe I should write about that a bit more…

Finally, I liked this piece because of this part:

She states that “Our images challenge the misrepresentation that all Muslim women are Middle Eastern and/or that Muslim women cover at all times, and don’t have the freedom to pursue careers in music and entertainment.” Additionally, she states that “we challenge the assumption that women who are not visibly marked as belonging to another faith are by default Christian.”

I post these pieces on Racialicious to debunk myths, not exactly to adovcate for the one true way to follow Islam. I try to make sure the information I put out there is correct, and all information can be challenged, but I intentionally post differing (and occassionally unpopular) perspectives on a variety of subjects.

Feel free to weigh in with your opinions, but please keep my statements in mind when you post.

Posted 09 May 2008 at 11:29 am ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Latoya,

There are some fundamentals in Islam that mark one as a believer. One of the most basic is what is included in the shahada (the Muslim profession of faith).

In English it goes “There is no god (diety) but God and Mohammed is His messenger”. That is the absolute, most basic requirement to be a Muslim.

If she has not said it, or doesnt not believe it, then she is not a Muslim.

Example, to become a Muslim in an official sense one must say the shadada in front of witnesses. For me to be able to marry Muslim woman or travel to a place like Saudi Arabia, I had to have a form that showed that I made a public declaration of faith in front of witnesses.

Of course the Saudi Embassy here in DC made me go further and take my shahada certificate and have it validated with an expert in Islamic law to make sure if I was, according to Muslim law, a Muslim.

Thinking that “Sunni Islam” is beautiful is fine, I think that to, but it doesnt make one a Muslim, neither does singing about God or Allah.

In Islam one of the most important concepts is that of “niyya” which means “intention” in Arabic. To be a Muslim one must make an open and declared intention to be a Muslim.

The Muslim experience in the African American community, to me, often seems to be less about religion, and more about a political statement. At this point in history where Islam is often hijacked for political purposes, we need less of a political natured understanding of Islam and more of a viewpoint based on the reality of the religion itself.

If she considers herself “culturally Muslim” I would ask in what way? Does that mean she refuses to eat pork? Does that mean she doesnt drink? That she abstains from sex outside of marriage?

To me, once again, I think when one talks about a “cultural Muslim” in such a way it is more about an idea of ethnic nationalism and political activism. Not all of which really have anything to do with Islam.

Ethnic nationalism of any sort is actually AGAINST Islamic teachings. Again, my point being that when things like this are thought of improperly, it is often used to attack or discredit Muslims and Islam.

I havent gotten into talking about the “one true way to follow Islam” because I dont think there is one. There are so fundamentals to which ALL Muslims agree, and those are the most very basic things that would would have to adher to, or at least admit that they are supposed to, to be called a Muslim or considered one.

From a different perspective, the idea of Islam as a religion in the African American community has become almost a joke, a stereotype to some. Often this is because people claim to be Muslim who are not, or are put forward as Muslims by the media, when they are not.

It has become something that is sometimes used to batter the general Muslim community with.

It really does a disservice to those African Americans who really do try to live a life according to Islam, and dont just view it as a tool to further or proclaim their allegience to a paritcular set of political ideas.

I think here is where someone like Malcom X was a great example. He started following the ethno-centric cult that the NoI is, and got very involved in what was essentially a political, not religious movement.

Later, when he come to discover the religion of Islam, he discarded the ethno-centric racial political nature of the Nation of Islam and accepted the religion of Islam.

One was a political ideology that actually contradicted the most basic ideas of Islam, and the other was the religion of Islam itself.

I have never been the fan of the idea of “cultural Catholics” or “cultural Muslims”. Either you are, or you are not. In the case of American “cultural Muslim” I question at what level of what makes them “cultural Muslims” is based on religion in the first place.

To me it does not seem to be based on religion, rather ethnocentric politics.

If you can point me to tenets of “cultural Muslim” practices that owe their roots to the religion of Islam I’d be happy. Maybe I am just missing something because of my different approach to the whole thing.

I appreciate your comments and your efforts to try and debunk certain stereptypes, but we must always be sure we dont add the sterotypes when we are trying to help.

This is a great forum where I feel I have learned a lot of subjects I wouldnt otherwise be exposed to.

Thanks.

Posted 09 May 2008 at 12:57 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

Abu Sinan,

“…but we must always be sure we dont add the sterotypes when we are trying to help.”

Good point but then you say

“The Muslim experience in the African American community, to me, often seems to be less about religion, and more about a political statement. ”

Stereotyping perhaps?

Your first comment stated that “Islam in the R & B and Hip Hop scene is a fad” and then you ask writers to do a piece on a “traditional” Muslim. From this comment it seems you were not focusing on the Five Percenters but rather on all, but using Five Percenters simply to prove your point. How am I not supposed to assume you are speaking of all three women, Eve, Erykah, and Anaya.

Your comments seem redundant considering the piece already points out the relation of Five Percenters to mainstream Islam.

Feminist Punk:

I was referring to JDsg’s comment that all Muslims must act and think the same. Perhaps you should be telling him/her about the diversity of Muslims and not me. JDsg’s sentiment is one I’ve come across all too often.

Posted 09 May 2008 at 1:26 pm ¶
JDsg wrote:

I was referring to JDsg’s comment that all Muslims must act and think the same. Perhaps you should be telling him/her about the diversity of Muslims and not me.

Actually, I had addressed this point in an earlier comment yesterday that, for some reason, didn’t get through. What I had written was:

“Let’s rephrase then: There are minimum requirements that one must undertake before one can be considered a Muslim; see Aaminah’s post, What Makes a Muslim? for the lists. If you cannot accept all of the two sets of lists (the five pillars of Islam and Islam’s six articles of faith), then you are not a Muslim. It’s as simple as that. The pseudo-Islamic cults such as the NOI and the 5%ers are outside of Islam because they don’t accept one or more items on the two lists. There are various interpretations inside of Islam (e.g., the various madhhab), but they all accept everything on the two lists. It’s not that Muslims are averse to diversity (there’s a tremendous amount of diversity in Islam); what we’re averse to are non-Muslims masquerading as Muslims. You either accept everything in Islam’s basic requirements or you’re not a Muslim. Islam is not a cafeteria religion.”

Finally, on a personal level, I’m well familiar with the tremendous diversity of Muslims and Muslim culture, having met Muslims from at least two dozen different countries, and having prayed in masajid in five countries on three continents. And yet, despite all that diversity, we all believe in the same fundamentals.

Posted 09 May 2008 at 7:04 pm ¶
Brooke AKA Ummbadier wrote:

Sorry to be a bit long, but this topic has been irking me for a few months so I decided to “share” what I have found. First let’s keep in mind that we have been commenting on what Duniya said that McMurray said about Eve. That’s a lot of interpretation and speculation.

“McMurray argues that, according to her calculations, Eve is a Muslim woman, though even McMurray admits she cannot be sure. McMurray reads Eve as a Muslim woman.”

Well, that suits McMurray’s purposes. How she “reads” Eve to be Muslim is atleast unIslamic and also not very “scholarly.”

It would at least help to get a closer readin of what McMurray said. “In fact the only explicit clue that speaks to Eve’s identity as a Muslim in her music is the occasional use of Allah.” or how about “Grapevine communication helps to support my reading of Eve as a Muslim. Third, Eve’s use of Islamic terminology and my grapevine communications are supported by the particular community she came from. Philadelphia has one of the largest black Muslim populations in the country.”
So Eve is from Philly and folks there say she is Muslim. Nuff said? No.

Hunches and heresay are what McMurray uses to determine if Eve is Muslim. Not a direct question to Eve. Or even use of a direct statement from Eve–like this one–
“E: Islam is a beautiful religion. But right now, with my career and my life, I can’t live the Sunni Muslim way. I refuse to be a hypocrite and cover my head on Friday, go pray, and then the rest of the week I’m out cursing and drinking–and performing. So right now I’m just comfortable with God.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_11_30/ai_66937988

Posted 09 May 2008 at 10:33 pm ¶
Farheen wrote:

I am amazed at how offended people seem to be that Eve could be an actual Muslim. This is exactly what Anaya talks about in her paper.

Why does it matter? The whole point is the difficulty these women face in the hip hop and Muslim worlds and the comments on this post are demonstrating the Muslim antagonism well.

Posted 09 May 2008 at 11:30 pm ¶
Ginny wrote:

Greetings, all, as a Muslim, I’d have to agree with Abu Sinan, Ammainah (did she comment here or on her blog), JDSG, et all, in that you can’t be a Muslim just ’cause you say your are. There are just certain things that *make* you a Muslim, and as Aaminah has so eloquently pointed out in her blog, those things can be summed up in the 5 pillars of faith and the 6 articles of belief. If you don’t believe in any of those things, you’re not a Muslim, plain and simple. Now of course if you want to identify as such, well, you can do what you want, but don’t expect mainstream Muslims to accept you as such.

As far as “Muslims not being tolerant”, “Muslims not being diverse”, etc., etc., etc., frankly, I’m tired of hearing this, everytime we put our foot down and say “this is not Islam”, every time someone tries to shove something in our faces and scream to us that “yeah it’s Islam!” Even though we as Muslims should, I’d think, be able to tell what’s a Muslim and what isn’t.

If you believe in more than one god, that a human came in the form of a god, that there was a Prophet after Muhammad (peace be upon him), etc., you’re not a Muslim and to be frank, you’re far outside of the bounds of Islam itself.

Now as far as whether Eve is a Muslim or not, God knows best on this, but judging strictly by her comments, she seems as though she’s familiar with Islam, seems to have some “liking”/reverence for the religion, however, due to her career, she feels she’d be a hypocrite if she adopted the religion one day of the week, and went back to doing, well, whatever she does, the rest of the week.

Well, unfortunately, judging on those statement salone, you can’t call her a Muslim, “liking” Islam, is different than professing your faith, and believing in the things that you should believe as a Muslim, as already outlined in my comments and in those above, and in so doing, follow the commandments that God has set down for us.

As far as “Muslims not being diverse”, all I have to sa is, “whatever”. Muslims are a very diverse group of people, we have varying cultures, languages, ethnicities, and yes, varying levels of practice, but we’re still Muslims. It just gets me that we’re called out for “not being diverse” because we don’t say “yeah they’re a Muslim” when someone expects us to, or in some attempt to be more inclusive or whatever. Either you’re a Muslim, or you’re not pure and simple. There’s no in-between here.

Posted 10 May 2008 at 6:29 am ¶
Brooke AKA Ummbadier wrote:

Farheen-
Did you read McMurray’s paper? She does not say that Muslims are “offended” by Eve or anyone else (including herself) identifying as Muslim. She does say there is a double standard where by it is easier for society and Muslim communities to accept male rappers identifying as Muslim. “Second, though there are also specific roles that Muslim men are expected to play, which may often seem antithetical to the roles men are encouraged to play in the hip-hop music industry, double standards may make it easier for men to reconcile their faith and the space they occupy in the industry.”(McMurray)
But I am sure that the list of “Muslim” artists she sites would be argued just as vehemently as Eve and Erykah–”Artists such as Africa Bambata, Public Enemy, Brand Nubian, Rakim, Mos Def, Freeway, Beanie Siegal, Busta Rhymes, Q-Tip, and Black Thought have been able to express their religious beliefs while still fulfilling an often conflicting role in the music industry; blatant double standards existing within Islamic communities, hip-hop, and the larger U.S. culture work to their advantage. ” (McMurray)
What is offensive is the attempt to secularize the religion.
Why does THAT matter? Well, because it is offensive that something of such vital significance is treated mistreated, distorted, attacked, etc.

Posted 10 May 2008 at 9:26 am ¶
lechatnoir wrote:

hum.. Eve should rename herself Awa to begin with. then we will see.

to add to the discussion, i am a MOURID those of you who do not know what it is. it is another segment of the muslim religion there are 8 millions of us 2/3 in just one country .

Posted 10 May 2008 at 8:31 pm ¶
Eric Daniels wrote:

That’s why I rejected religon along time ago because of people like Abu Sian and Feminist Punk who want to be the gatekeepers (when many Arabs would say they aren’t Muslims because they are not Arabs) in many ways they are as hypocritical as Christians like James Dotson and the “Reverend” JESSE LEE Peterson who think that there’s only one way to be a Christian. I say let God, Allah or whomever you believe in (or not) sort it out.

And Abu Sian, I know plenty of real “Sunni Muslims” who would say you aren’t being a true muslim in any yourself like all good books say, “Get rid of the Board in your own eyes before you talk about the speck in your brother’s eye “

Posted 14 May 2008 at 11:25 am ¶
The Truth wrote:

As-Salaam Alaikum,

All of these comments are wonderful expressions. And dialogue is important, especially in Islam. First and foremost, there shouldn’t be a such thing as mainstream Islam. It should be Just Islam. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), wasn’t the author of the Quran, Allah (swt) is! Allah (swt) revealation is clear. He said nothing about Sunni, Shi’a, 5% ters, just Islam! Freedom Justice, and Equality. A muslim is a person who submits his/her will totally to do Allah’s(swt) will. So, if you are compromising anything and you’re putting Allah second to those things, then there is a chastisement for the wrongdoers! That goes for Eve, Erykah Badu, and the cheerleader. A women should wear loose fitting clothes, not to reveal her shape that’s Quran and man’s sentiments. As for NOI, Elijah Muhammad is a messenger/ warner to us all not a Prophet. In the Quran, Prophet Muhammad states that 3 generation after him will no longer be of him. Therefore if you’re following mainstream Islam and not looking for the Mahdi, you may want to step outside the box and find out what kind of work the Mahdi is to do on his return!
Asa

Posted 17 Jul 2008 at 10:39 pm ¶
Sulukskywalker wrote:

I think there is to much confusion between Al-Islam and Muslims. The former being the complete and perfect system of guidance that ARRAHMAN has blessed us with, and the latter being the imperfect, dare I say, “adherents” to the former.

Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 10:16 pm ¶
eRiC wrote:

Nice piece….I’ll have to find the academic article as well. I’m a Hip-Hop scholar who has avoided the topic of misogyny…but I want to spend more time researching it. I will soon post some questions on my blog (www.ghettogeekin.blogspot.com) to see what I can learn.

Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 12:20 pm ¶
msday wrote:

“It seems from your post that you are implying that being Black is not a traditional Muslim background.”

Stop being so quick to jump on the offensive. You know good and well what he means, the nation of Islam was founded by a criminal, named Wallace Fard and for many years the followers considered him, “god on earth.” The creation story of “Yakob” a scientist from out of space who created the white race??? Come on, you know good and darned well that is not Islam. Yet, you have the audacity to get offended by this man’s comments. Ewww, if that’s not the dew, dropping off the cool green leaves!

Posted 26 May 2009 at 10:00 pm ¶
the lenor christ wrote:

Peace,

You have a few facts about The Nation in correct, but this article is pretty decent compared to many of the others I’ve read. You must understand we should not be compared to our Brothers and Sisters of Islam.. It is true yes, some in The NGE [the nation of gods[men] and earths[women] and stars/seeds[child], see the doctrine as political and very little theological. Yet, for the most part in my 5 years of practice and my Husband who has been building for 20 years, this is our philosophy, our theology. In the way that Buddhism can be applied to other theological systems, the same is of The NGE. Our daily lessons[and yes, I mean daily] consist of the Supreme Alphabet and Supreme Mathematics, this is our guide lines to moral and righteous living. Men and Women are equal, completely equal. Though, obviously we have some difference in our building[learning with self/others], most of the lessons are blind to sex.
Also speaking of being blind, one’s racial background is not an issue, though a white man or woman would have a more difficult task, I know many white 5%. I myself am half original woman[indigenous american], and though my skin is light I have found little prdjuce. lso as you said in your article, most Muslims do not except us as Muslims, this is not true. to some degree some Muslims may at first be very skeptical, but if you have devoted yourself to building your Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding [the first three numbers in our Supreme Mathematics] our Muslim brothers and sisters often except us. You have to understand tis philosophy was grown out of The Nation of Islam and brought to New York[New Mecca] and spread from one area to the next like fire.. This was empowering for many young black men and women.. A new alternative to the hopelessness of teachings that could not apply to what the situation was for the lower struggling class. Don’t get me wrong, many folks of all eco- background are now 5%.. and it is deeply rooted in hip-hop. And many women in the industry are 5%, including myself[though I am in management]. Sister Badu, Sister Lauren Hill, Sister Jill Scott.. are only a few, this runs very deep. Aside from solo women I could name over a hundred acts that are 5%, Wu-Tang, Nas, Brand Nubian, Rakim, Brother Ali[muslim], Ras Kass, Az, Digable Planets, Killah Priest, Plant Asia, Gang Star, and many others. Though this may seem to be mostly male dominated, this is not true. For every male [God] there is a female [Earth] by his side. We are growing more and more, even artists like Jay-Z, Kanye West have their roots in The Nation.. and though most would not pick up on their lyrics that plainly point toward an education in The Nation.. there are many examples. Anyhow, than k you for this article.. As I said you did pretty well for not knowing anything about it.

One Love,

The Lenor Christ [The Anointed Wiz-Dome]

Posted 11 Jul 2009 at 1:58 pm ¶