Longform Links – 2008-05-07 – Muslim Women, Feminism, Myanmar (Burma)
When dealing with issues of women in Muslim countries, even the compassion that comes from some women in the US sometimes takes the form of “Oh my god!” I know, stoning is a savage idea and it’s appalling. But when you say “Oh My God!” to make yourself feel better, it shows. It makes you seem not genuine, because it has that little bit of satisfaction that comes with disassociating yourself from such an appalling act. After all, it’s not the human society who is committing this act, it’s “them,” it’s those countries. When you think about domestic violence in these countries:”Oh My God!” It doesn’t make you think about prevalence of domestic violence in the US. It doesn’t make you say, “yes, we have the same problem, what can we do together to fix this?” Because you think there is something inherent about “them” that makes them more suitable for domestic violence,”the women must be sheepish and submissive, their religion makes it ok, their men are savages” but you sound so concerned: “Oh my god, those poor women, it’s so preposterous!” as if it doesn’t happen in your homes.
Womanist Musings – East vs. West Feminist Divide
When we look in askance at the practice of polygamy we must remember the FLDS compounds. When we question the Burqa, we must remember its binary opposite uniform, the sexualized female western body. Both are limiting and seek to construct women as other. Patriarchy is reinforced each and every time feminism refuses to see commonality. Note that by commonality, I am not suggesting the construction of a monolithic woman, rather I am suggesting that the female body is globally devalued, stigmatized, and raped. The aforementioned are international crimes against women. How these crimes are negotiated maybe subject to cultural relativities, however their acknowledgment as gender specific assaults must be reified. We cannot cloak Middle Eastern women, in a symbolic burka of victimization without acknowledging our own victimization by western men. The label that we seek to give others, is that which we already own.
Washington Post – Update: Spelling Champ’s Victory
A District spelling bee champ, [Ashley White] had been featured in a documentary, “Spellbound,” about the 1999 Scripps National Spelling Bee. In the movie, the ambitious middle-schooler with a photographic memory had dreams of being an obstetrician.
But, as the Post story recounted, White fell far and hard by the time the movie was released, in 2002. At age 18, she became a mother. And after bouncing among temporary homes, she landed in a homeless shelter.
Despite the hardships, the young woman’s dreams were unsquelched. Determined to get a college education, she was helped through Howard University by Washington Post readers, who offered her jobs, furniture and mentoring and contributed thousands of dollars to her education.
To make ends meet, she worked part-time jobs, including as a clerk in a clothing store, as a substitute teacher at her daughter’s child-care center and as administrative assistant at a real estate firm.
For the past two years, she has worked part time at Florence Crittenton Services of Greater Washington, a nonprofit group that works with teens and teen parents in the District and Montgomery County. As she recounts on her Web site, http://www.ashleytwhite.org, she plans to work there full time for about a year while she applies to graduate school for a master’s degree in social work.
Her daughter, Dashayla, 4, will enter kindergarten in the fall.
NY Times – As Magnitude of Myanmar Loss Grows, Aid Arrives
The death toll from a powerful cyclone that struck Myanmar three days ago rose to 22,500 Tuesday, with more than 40,000 people still missing, the government said, and foreign governments and aid organizations began mobilizing for a major relief operation.
[...]
The United States, which has led a drive for economic sanctions against Myanmar’s repressive regime, said it would also provide aid, but only if an American disaster team was invited into the country.
“We’re prepared to move U.S. Navy assets to help find those who have lost their lives, to help find the missing, to help stabilize the situation,” President George W. Bush said Tuesday in the Oval Office. Bush was signing legislation awarding the Congressional Gold Medal to Aung San Suu Kyi, the democracy advocate who has long been under house arrest in Myanmar.
The policy was presented by the first lady, Laura Bush, , along with a lecture to the junta about human rights and disaster relief.
“This is a cheap shot,” said Aung Nain Oo, a Burmese political analyst who is based in Thailand. “The people are dying. This is no time for a political message to be aired. This is a time for relief. No one is asking for anything like this except the United States.”
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
gatamala wrote:
While I’m glad that Ashley is moving forward, I’m dismayed that her life hit such a bump.
Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:05 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:
I’ve always felt the Western media patronizes the suffering of women in Muslim countries and acts as if it never happens here in the States.
I mean, f–k, we have rapists, we have murderers, we have wife-beaters, we have mysogynists, we have paedophiles. Everyday there are new disturbing stories about how f–ked up our society is. Who does the American media think they’re kidding?
Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:38 am ¶
Phrone wrote:
About the situation in Myanmar: I really, really, really hope that international aid comes to the people who have been displaced, etc. or are reported missing. I think the top priority should be ensuring that the already staggering death toll does not rise even higher.
At the same time, however, I’m interested to see how the media and others frame the problem and call for action. I get the sense that it will be a case of people saying that if incompetent government actions killed more people than a natural disaster should have, in Myanmar it will be the government’s fault, but in New Orleans it was the fault of the people who lived there. (That, at least, was the consensus reached by my predominantly white, predominantly upper-middle class high school class; it was infuriating.)
Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:58 am ¶
octogalore wrote:
I am sorry for the garbled earlier email — I did not proofread carefully. Please substitute this one:
I am glad too that Ashley has been so brave and resilient.
Regarding east/west feminism: I think the articles are correct that: “When we question the Burqa, we must remember its binary opposite uniform, the sexualized female western body. Both are limiting and seek to construct women as other.”
But I think it’s fair to say that there is a difference in terms of degree. I do not read stories or hear friends of mine who have first hand knowledge claim that it is frequent that women who do not comply with western appearnace standards are killed by family members, as eastern women who pursue independence or do not wear the burqua can be. We do not see much about stoning here.
The situation for women has a long way to go everywhere. We cannot put our heads in the sand and take a provincial or imperialist attitude. We must acknowledge and embrace commonality, as the Womanist Musings article said. But it would be self-serving and lazy to ignore the differences of scale here.
Posted 07 May 2008 at 3:33 pm ¶
Faith wrote:
octogalore, I still think you’re still making women in Muslim countries the other. Women are killed in the US by spouses and partners who want to control them. Women are killed by family members in the West too. Just because misogyny and oppression may take different forms than it does in some Muslim societies, does not mean that it’s not as bad. Also, and I’m sure this has been discussed already, Muslim women aren’t monolithic. The issues that Muslim women in Afghanistan face aren’t the same issues that an African American Muslimah faces. In fact, I find it disheartening that when Muslim women are discussed, there is hardly ever any talk of African American and white Muslimahs. Sometimes, it makes me think that the “concern” for Muslim women by some people is really masked cultural imperialism.
Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:06 pm ¶
octogalore wrote:
Faith said: “Just because misogyny and oppression may take different forms than it does in some Muslim societies, does not mean that it’s not as bad. Also, and I’m sure this has been discussed already, Muslim women aren’t monolithic.”
I agree with you on both of those, but they are compatible with what I said, which is that there are differences in terms of degree. Not in terms of the severity of the oppression where it occurs. And I am not stating in any way that Muslim women are monolithic.
Just that percentagewise, there is a difference in degree between the oppression that occurs in the US and in Muslim countries. And that there is a difference between “othering” and between being ostriches and pretending its the same degree we’re dealing with here.
“Concern” is masked cultural imperialism when it’s termed as “let’s go tell them that our way is better.” That’s not what I am saying. I am interested in learning more about what can be done to respond to issues that both US and Muslim women are facing w/r/t oppression, based on their analyses, not based on projection. Muslim women I have spoken to have said that they do see a substantial difference between treatment of women in different locations. Note: I am not claiming they speak for all Muslim women, of course.
I think “let’s not try to understand whether there may indeed be a more severe issue happening in other areas and what we might do to assist where our assistance is actually wanted, for fear that it’s not PC” is not even concern. It’s cowardice.
Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:57 pm ¶
xtina wrote:
octagalore- your concern for muslim women, as genuine as it may be, raises a multitude of issues and feelings, and reminds me of one of my personal favorite quotes, by Minoo Moallem, “the Muslim woman is the West’s most comforting cliche.” i don’t want or need anyone’s “concern” for gender equality, but i would love a world where imperialist practices aren’t imposed by first world nations on those they can control, thereby making it harder for women in their own day to day lives, which would include equal protection and access to resources. Balayez devant vos propres portes, as they say.
Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:32 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
One way I try to sort through this question – not that I have met with significant success on it – is to try to listen to what Muslim women who live under repressive regimes say about say about it. Which is fairly obvious, but it takes some sorting through, because depending on your media source and its agenda, they will either quote women that talk about how completely abominable the law and rules of extreme Muslim societies are, or talk about how Westerners are arrogant imperialists who don’t understand the first thing about it and shouldn’t project themselves onto other people. So since both of those perspectives can be found, which one seems more prevalent, or more honest and self-critical, or more responsible?
I don’t really know the answer, sorry. It’s just an ideal of a mode of analysis. Without a whole lot of statistical backup, I tend to lean toward the guidance of an Iranian feminist whom I really admire: Azar Nafisi, who wrote Reading Lolita in Tehran. She says: “First of all, there are aspects of culture which are really reprehensible, and we should [all] fight against it. We shouldn’t accept them. Second of all, women in Iran and in Saudi Arabia don’t like to be stoned to death.”
Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:34 pm ¶
Korolev wrote:
Yes, abuse against women has happened in the West. In my nation, Australia, there is a terrific undercurrent of abuse against women. I personally know of one woman who is being abused by her husband, and who is trying to leave him (she’s beginning to press charges).
However, I’ve also lived in more than one country. I’ve live in a majority Muslim nation, such as Malaysia.
There is abuse against women in the West. Heck, there’s abuse against all women in all countries, and while that’s very wrong and we should do everything in our power to change it, it happens. In the US, Australia, UK, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Uzbekistan, Hungary, Poland, etc, abuse against women occurs in all of these, and it is something which needs to be fought against.
But there is a difference in some (some, not all) Islamic countries, notably Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and in some cases, Egypt. I know those countries do not represent all Muslims, but many live in those countries.
For example – a woman is raped in Saudi Arabia and gets punished for it. The men were punished as well, but the woman was too – and I have never seen that in modern day Australia or America. What’s worse, most of the people in Saudi Arabia didn’t really do anything to change it.
A woman who doesn’t wear the Burqa gets punished for it. In some Muslim countries, you are forced to wear it. In Australia, NO ONE forces you to wear a Bikini. You do not get punished physically if you do not. That’s a big, big difference. I know some Muslims want to wear the Burqa, but you cannot pretend all do, and they should not be hurt because they wish not to.
There is a difference in women’s rights when it comes to the East Vs the West. To pretend it doesn’t exist, is to be blind. The two situations are not equivalent. I do admit that some in the West use the abuse of women in the Middle East to justify racism, but not all of us do. Some of us can see the difference, yet not drawn racist conclusions from them. And I also admit that abuse in the West is not covered as extensively as it should, but again, that is because it doesn’t receive government support in the West, unlike in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, in which it does (although, yes I repeat, not all Muslim nations are like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia).
There is a difference. It’s not racist to point them out. Just as it’s not racist to point out that White-majority Nations have enslaved more people than other nations, or that White-majority nations pollute more or consume more resources.
Some can actually look at the faults of nations and religions without drawing racist conclusions.
And yes, I live in the West, and I am half-white and I do not believe in any religion, but that does not diminish my argument or my Logic.
Posted 08 May 2008 at 8:57 am ¶
octogalore wrote:
Korolev: thanks.
xtina: what part of what I said is cliche or imperialist or being “comforted” by others’ oppression, pray tell? I reiterated that I was not speaking for anyone or generalizing about Muslim women, and was more interested in hearing their experiences than in deciding for myself what they were.
Apparently because I’m not towing the “it’s ‘othering’ to conjecture that oppression in some Islamic countries may be worse than it is in the US on average” party line, you feel free to project the worst of neoconservative claptrap on me. It doesn’t wash.
Maybe because I am not a Muslimah myself I cannot read the words or hear the words of friends who are or were and learn something from them. Maybe because I am not linking to them because I don’t want to bring them traffic they may not want, their words really do not exist. Maybe as a white woman, any mention of hearing or being affected by their words (which have been heard offline as well) is just like saying “I have a black friend.”
If that’s what you want to believe, fine with me. I’m not the kind of friend who won’t stand up for my friends’ experiences in their absence, especially where these experiences tally with other data.
Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:01 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
Octogalore, Xtina –
We’re going to discuss this in another post. You may want to table the conversation for now.
Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:02 pm ¶
Crys T wrote:
I’ve been lurking here for a while, but Korolev’s comment has drawn me out:
Women in the West who get raped aren’t punished for it? That’s news to me.
Just because the courts don’t pass sentence on women specifically for being raped, it doesn’t mean that Western societies don’t have myriad ways of punishing women who’ve been raped.
The reason why so many women are reluctant to let anyone, let alone the police or other authorities, know that someone has raped them is BECAUSE of the high price they know they’ll have to pay for coming forward.
Posted 10 May 2008 at 3:37 pm ¶