Interracial Dating: The Interracial Hate Stare at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture

Interracial Dating: The Interracial Hate Stare

by Latoya Peterson

A few years ago, I lived in an apartment with my then-boyfriend and his best friend. Oftentimes, my now-ex worked nights, so a lot of the more domestic chores fell to me and the roommate to complete.

Me and Roomie eventually fell into the habit of walking to the grocery store every so often, to pick up supplies and get some exercise. This idea started out fine. But over time, Roomie and I noticed a strange happening every time we got close to the store. Apparently, the sight of a tall white man with reddish hair laughing and talking with a tallish black girl was enough to render some people speechless.

Then, the staring started.

First, it was just one older black man on a park bench watching us walk by intently.

The next time, it was a group of black men sitting outside the Caribou Coffee.

Another time, the grocery store staff fell completely silent as we approached. Six black men silently voiced their disapproval. Six sets of eyes followed Roomie into the grocery store with me. I saw Roomie tense up until we were out of their sight.

After that trip, Roomie quietly informed me that he didn’t want to walk to the grocery store anymore.

I’ve thought of this scenario often over the years, because it tends to underscore the assumptions and ideas surrounding interracial dating. A lot of the more visible or outward reactions are based strongly in the assumptions we make about the participants in IR Relationships.

So, let’s begin our conversation here - what are some of the most common assumptions about interracial relationships?

No need to challenge these assumptions just yet - let’s just get the major assumptions out there.

—

A note: All comments are subject to Sulyp’s Rule #3, which is: Keep posts “Informative, Kind, and Truthful”. If it’s not two of the three, evaluate whether or not you really should post it. Also, phrase your words carefully - anything unnecessarily hurtful will be deleted.

Trackbacks & Pings

Interracial/Intercultural Dating - Staring? Other Issues? « Immigration, Assimilation, Ethnicity and All That Jazz on 07 May 2008 at 9:44 am

[…] is it that certain interracial pairings are stared more often than others? Over at Racialicious, Latoya Peterson writes about living with her then-boyfriend and his roommate a few years ago. Often, roommate and Latoya […]

Comments

Sarah J wrote:

My favorite assumption reared its head yesterday. I was listening to Common at work and I am a white girl dating a black man. I mentioned to my student worker that Common was sexy, and my student worker (Jewish man) said something to the effect of I’m into black guys, now, huh?

The man in my life isn’t a fetish, he’s a person, damnit. A smart, sexy one who makes me laugh.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 6:31 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

1) people in interracial relationships have a special responsibility to “think through” every aspect of their relationship, and if they’re not smart enough or educated enough, they shouldn’t be in one.

2) all interracial relationships are based on sexual fetishes, and intraracial relationships aren’t

3) upper-class people are involved in interracial relationships more than working-class people.

4) all people get into interracial relationships because they’re confused about their own identity and hate themselves

5) all people get into interracial relationships because they want to rebel against their parents

6) being in an interracial relationships means that every single potential same-race partner “isn’t good enough”.

(here’s a post from Rachel that turns some more of these myths sideways… Myths About Intraracial Relationships Pt. 1.)

Posted 07 May 2008 at 6:53 am ¶
Mary wrote:

When I dated an Iranian guy I got these weird sympathy vibes from people. Kind of the, “she must be a total self-hating masochist to date someone from such a sexist culture” attitude.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:09 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:

How about the assumption that a man and a woman walking down the street together must be banging each other??? There’s quite a bit of heterosexist assumptions along with the racist ones about interracial dating. Especially when it comes to a man and woman of different so-called races walking down the street together, there’s a greater presumption that they’re sleeping together rather than the more simple idea that they may just be friends or coworkers. I’ve come across this one quite a bit when walking to lunch with one of my white male coworkers - having more than one black person give that look of disapproval because of course I couldn’t *possibly* be friends with this person and thus must be subject to this white guy’s racialized fantasy about black women. Ugh.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:24 am ¶
Scarlett wrote:

I am married to a man of colour and have often been told by women of colour that I “took” him away from them. Assumption much. He made the move on me.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:51 am ¶
kd wrote:

I thkn IR dating is all right, I’e doen it myself. THe only unfortunate thing that I’ve found is a that a lot-way more than I ever expected- of the people in IR relationship actually have problems either dating someone of their own race or problems with people of the race that they are dating. In other words it’s for example a black woman who says “they aint no good black men, they’re all lazy, got too many baby mamas etc.” Or like a white woman who says “yeah, black men like white woman because black women dont know how to treat their men or be clean, etc.”

I know its not everybody or even most, but I’ve found that for people that I know, and from seeing different documentaries, etc. that this is the cae far more than I knew. It really came as a surprise

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:52 am ¶
CEdwards wrote:

1. “Getting Ahead” - a notion that dating “white”, be it a man or woman, helps a person of color “get ahead” in social and economic circles or worse, “trancend” their race. I’m sorry, but having been in several interracial relationships, including my soon to be fiance (get working on that, Andy) my “blackness” has been more of a detriment in how people of various backgrounds treat us. It certainly doesn’t hinder general prejudice and racist behavior from occuring.

2. Sex. Hey, don’t get me wrong. Everything can be fetishized. But after several years, months, or liasons with someone, the “novelty” of two hues coming together wears off (or, in my case, was never there in the first place).

3. That black women, specifically, date white men to have “white” looking biracial babies.

4. That white women only date black men for sex (endowment, better lovers, etc.). Sorry, but having dating men from all over the world of varied race and ethnicities, no group has a better style of love making. And as for endowment, well, sorry to tell men of color but there are Caucasian and Asian men out there that have been well “blessed”.

5. “Once you go [fill in the blank], you never go back.” I guess if love was like a Toyota, you might only drive Toyotas for the rest of your life, but if its love you seek, you’re looking in every avenue, even the ones you’ve been down many times before.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:01 am ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

My parents are different races, and my family always got horribly rude stares when we went out to eat at restaurants. It’s incredible how often it happened, and it is really unsettling to see a stranger stare at you with hate in their eyes.

Some myths about interracial dating:
1. If you date outside of your race, that somehow diminishes your personal racial identity (e.g. A black woman dating outside of her race s not black “enough”)
2. You shouldn’t marry someone of another race because if you have kids, they’ll be confused and ostracized.
3. It’s a fad, a trend, a political statement, or a way of rebelling against your parents.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:14 am ¶
MNC wrote:

First off Latoya,
I’m so mad at you for mentioning Caribou Coffee. I have been fiending for one of those iced Mint Moose things for over a year. We don’t have them in the tri state area-thanks Latoya for reminding me of the coffee deliciousness I can’t have!

On a serious note, I was skeptical when you first mentioned writing a post on the “IR hate stare” but I love how you’ve approached it.

As some of the posts above stated, that stare assumes that you are a self-hating “race traitor.”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:14 am ¶
cubicalgirl wrote:

I know at least a few people wondered what this white girl and her black boyfriend could possibly have in common. As if the fact that we’re different races means we can’t like the same movies, music, or have similar views on issues.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:19 am ¶
Persia wrote:

The fetishization aspect is a huge one. In my circle of Playgroup Parents there was a white lawyer married to a Japanese woman, and my family noted with disdain that he’d dated at least one Asian woman previously.

Mary’s post reminded me there’s also the reverse of her situation: white guys dating Asian girls want ’submissive’ partners.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:32 am ¶
juju wrote:

That those in interracial/interethnic relationships actually care about the disapproval of others. That you are just siting around, waiting to hear about how wrong you are, and how confused you must be as the product of a multiracial coupling.

That the relationship is some political statement, because true love only exist in intraracial relationships.

That you are ashamed of your relationship and feel a need to prove that you are still down, since you are sleeping with the enemy.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:42 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:

1) Being involved in an interracial relationship magically frees the couple from racism

2) Being with a white partner=interracial relationship, not any other race (i.e. Asian man and Black woman, Asian woman with a Latina, etc.)

3) Being in an interracial relationship means
inviting sexual advances from every other person of your partner’s race

4) Being in an interracial relationship=sexually “experimental” or promiscuous

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:46 am ¶
Kmoney wrote:

That children of an interracial union are automatically an improvement of the black race. My partner (Latino) and I (AA) went to get a 4D ultra sound. The technician, a white woman, noticed that the babies had lots of hair and said that it would probably be really “good” hair and that was fortunate because she knows how much trouble black people have with our hair.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:55 am ¶
team wrote:

I think there are also myths specific to your race and the race of your partner.

Like, a black man who dates a non-black woman “can’t handle a strong black woman.”

Or women of any race who date black men have a high sex drive.

–CVK

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:55 am ¶
Sewere wrote:

“And as for endowment, well, sorry to tell men of color but there are Caucasian and Asian men out there that have been well “blessed”.”

Damn that was the only thing I had going for me.

Seriously, CE you beat me to it. You can’t imagine the number of folks including black folks I’ve heard subscribing to this belief.

To continue with the ridiculous assumptions about black/non-black interracial pairings.

1. GLBTQ black folks? “Who cares, they aren’t looking for serious relationships anyways.” Yes, that’s an actual quote. Racism and homophobic exclusion bundled together in one bigoted lovefest.

2. Having dated one non-black person makes you a serial interracial dater whose motives must be scrutinized thoroughly.

3. It’s because you like the “good” hair.

4. It’s because black men are trifling/lazy/resourceless OR black women are too hard/don’t give head/make you work for sex.

5. Black men who marry outside their race, take resources out of the black community.

I’ll think of more later.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:00 am ¶
CVT wrote:

I’m sensing some defensive-ness in a lot of these comments, and I think it’s important to mention these facts and have those in an interracial relationship think about it:

The majority of interracial black/white relationships are a black man and a white woman.

The majority of interracial Asian/white relationships are a white man and an Asian woman.

Period.

It’s true. There are a million theories on why that is, but it’s statistically proven, absolute FACT.

As a progeny of one of those unions, I find myself seriously thinking about it - am I the result of a “fetish” or some similar trend? I don’t know.

Now - this isn’t to say that it can’t be just about love, but if that was 100% the case, why wouldn’t “love” happen equally between racial combinations by gender?

If you are IN one of these “typical” combinations - I would like to hear your explanation for this trend (and I really mean that out of curiosity, I’m not implying anything negative about it).

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:07 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:

@ CVT–I feel you on the facts of what you’re saying, but–unless I misread what Latoya wrote–we were asked to list respectfully some *assumptions* about IRs, not the facts challenging them, at least not yet.

So, what have you heard people assume about interracial relationships?

Also, would you mind clarifying your question: “This isn’t to say that it can’t be just about love, but if that was 100% the case, why wouldn’t “love” happen equally between racial combinations by gender?”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:30 am ¶
Persia wrote:

CVT, in response to your comment:

I think one of the things we have to keep in mind is that these are questions asked of inter-racial relationships that are rarely, if ever, asked of intra-racial relationships. If a black guy dates a lot of black women with big butts, he’s just a normal guy. If a white guy dates a lot of black women with big butts, he’s a fetishist. I think it’s really important to remember that kinks and fetishes and ‘other-’ization happens in all relationships, not just interracial ones.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:30 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

CVT, this isn’t the “attack naive stupid people who don’t justify their interracial relationship to my satisfaction” thread, it’s the “list assumptions about interracial relationships” thread.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:35 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

CVT, I agree. It seems everyone’s skipped ahead to the next step of challenging the assignment. So I’m gonna skip ahead, too.
I’m in an interracial marriage, and I certainly don’t want assumptions dumped on me. However, there are plenty of couples whose these assumptions woudl descibe quite accurately.
Another question? Does interracial pairing done for fetishsy/self-hatred reasons lead to the left over partners to marry out of their race out of neccessity (*read* not out of fetish or self-hatred). Is it like algebra? Is part of the reason that my husband is Chinese that our same race/opposite sex mates outmarry more than others?
Sorry for the hetero paridigm, that’s all I have experience with.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:39 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

And that reminds me of one important but very complicated assumption about interracial assumptions:

It’s either all about love, or it’s all about culture and race. There is no gray area in between.

According to this assumption, people in interracial relationships have a paradoxical martyr/scapegoat status. They are both more free and less free than people in intraracial relationships. They are viewed as everything but what they really are… normal people with normal flaws.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:44 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

Oh, one more thing. I personally don’t notice many stares, then again I’m not very vigilant. My husband, on the other hand seems to think that asian women from time to time give him dirty looks or treat him more rudely when we’re out together. When I ask his for more details it’s never seems like that definite of a situation but if I didn’t see what the person looked like it hard for me to tell.
I’m tired of people telling us our kids are goingot be soooo beautiful. I counter that being mixed doesn’t always mean you’re going to be hot. Look @ Rob Schneider, ew.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:46 am ¶
jessabean wrote:

I agree with most of the people who have listed assumptions here. I can only speak to my own experience (which actually doesn’t include much interracial dating…well, if I’m half Asian and half white and I date a white guy, does that count? Is it only half interracial? These are serious questions about my own identity for another day.)

…But as a daughter of an interracial couple (white man and Asian woman), and a friend to several white males who have confessed to “liking Asians,” I sense the fetish aspect A LOT.

I also see the assumption that marrying a white man means one is “moving up” in society, or what have you. That it ensures financial stability (ha!) and status.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:54 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

@atlasien- you’re right, nothing is that simple. It’s like a spectrum. It can be hard to set a cut-off for what would be considered unsavory interracial relationships. Still, I’m not ready to call the whole thing “love” and completely mind my own business. By that I mean I think it should still be discussed (and not in a binary way) but I don’t believe in heckling.
A classmate of mine in undergrad was notorius for launching into a diatribe of “Why is it that when black men go out with white women they have to pick the fat nasty ones and then show her off like “she’s my queen!” whenever there was a couple within earshot that fit that description according to her. That’s an assumption I often hear. Soooooo embarrassing. She also heckled smokers.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:55 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

ever since reading Soul On Ice (google it…it’s a pretty scary book), a male friend of mine and i have been discussing interracial relationships between black males and non-black females pretty extensively (like, hours on end, folks)…so much so that i am tempted to write about our findings…but i’m reluctant…

anyway, one of the things we have frequently discussed is that “leftover” theory that celeste talked about. at a discussion about IRs at which I was a panelist, many of my fellow panelists (myself included) discussed our disappointment at the media highjacking of IRs in their presenting them as solely between blacks and whites, and even more so, between black men and white women. we wondered, were the stats in real life vs. those on the screen a case of life imitating art or art imitating life? and even further, why were the other types of IRs so rarely portrayed on the screen, in commercials, etc? was there something utterly disturbing about a black woman dating an apa guy or a middle eastern man? was there something strange about an asian woman dating an indigenous latino man? etc why were these partnerships not portrayed? and on the ground, in real life, were people approaching these new pairings on their own as a means of reacting (albeit, subconsciously) to a media-based and real life assumed “rejection” by their own group? in other words, were, say, apa men and black women suddenly drawn to each as a result of a fear of or actual rejection from their own group? (and i use “fear” here as a surrogate for “assumption”…i.e. “well so many black men want white women, i’m going to try something new” etc…

i think what’s interesting about ALL relationships, not just IRs is what’s going on in our subconscious…what’s happening as a result of conditioning, sexism, racism, beauty norms, classism, all of it. that’s why the CL article i did back in the day still kind of scares me…bc it’s an articulation of all the things people never say out loud and may never even tell their partners, but that they feel on the inside as a result of whatever they learned from society or from some experience in childhood that made them become attracted to x group more than y group…and possibly based on scary assumptions about said group…

ugh so much to say!
sorry for the long (and clearly skipping ahead) comment!

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:10 am ¶
Slush wrote:

And if you look at personals ads on the internet [I don’t know how to link to that old post of Latoya’s] it doesn’t really help the situation.

Mod Note: Wendi’s article on the CL Personals is here.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:11 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

And finally, to get it out of the way, the mathematical stuff doesn’t prove or disprove anything about interracial relationships!

What it does prove is this:

1) the sexuality of black women and Asian men is devalued in our national culture

2) Asian women and white women are more sexually valued in our culture.

So of course interracial relationships are going to reflect the specific forms of racism in any society. But so do intraracial relationships… it’s just not as immediately and visually apparent.

Sorry for jumping on you CVT, but I am sick of “mathematical” arguments for something that has nothing do with math.

My background: I’m a child of a “nonstandard” relationship (Asian father, white mother) in a “standard” relationship with a white man. My husband has told me a few extremely disgusting things he has heard from other white men, that he has had to argue against; for example, that he somehow scored a lot of points for getting an Asian woman, as if I’m some kind of sexual prize. My whole life I’ve been angry about the fact everyone assumes my mother was an Asian war bride and my father was a white soldier. My father doesn’t give a damn about any of this, but I have always felt insulted on his behalf. I’m certainly not blind to all these racist dynamics. I just refuse to allow them to completely control my life.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:12 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

here is the post you may be referring to
it’s the first one i wrote for Racialicious as a Special Correspondent on racism in Craigslist Ads:

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/05/17/craigslist-personals-desperately-seeking-diversity-training/

and Latoya did several posts on IRs/race based fetishes, which can be found here:

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/03/26/where-da-white-women-at-details-magazine-plays-up-on-racial-stereotypes/

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/07/27/race-preference-or-race-fetish/

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/08/07/something-new-is-getting-old/

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:15 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

Wendi, pleeeeease write eabout yur findings. I’ve had similar conversatiosn and I’m curious to see how they compared with yours. Is there a way for everyone to share their secret subconcious messed up thoughts without it becoming a hatefest?
The CL persona ad article was pretty gross. I sometimes peruse the personals and the erotic services when I’m really bored and want really cheap shameful entertainment.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:22 am ¶
Sulyp wrote:

Well, I am a Black Woman married to a White Man.

He certainly does not look like the imaginary black husband I envisioned having as a young girl. But nonetheless, here he is.

Most of the time, I find black people are not very hateful at all (in my personal experience), and maybe only a small handful of older black men ever gave any offended vibes. Maybe it’s just where we live.

But I got a very surprising amount of reaction from Asians (immigrants and American-born alike), particularly women. many of them express shock, distaste, speechlessness. One incident in particular struck me: When my husband and I first moved to our new place, one of his Asian female colleagues dropped by with a housewarming gift. She had not met me before, so when I opened the door to see who it was, she took one look at me, said nothing, turned around and walked away. The next time I saw her, I was with my husband. She still had a hard time registering that yes, I am in fact, his wife. So of course, I was probed for details of how was it exactly did we happen to get married.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:22 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

Sulyp, is there anyway to know what generation this lady is or previous exposure she has had to blacks? I would judge the situation diffrently based on that.
My father-in-law similary questioned my mother on how she paid for our wedding (it was about 20k, no platinum wedding here). I’m not sure if he expected it to be held at a barn and decorated with spinning rims but he had trouble with the whole “some black people are middle class” concept.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:33 am ¶
NancyP wrote:

Any comments on LGBT interracial couples?

My assumption is that the dating pool is small and one can’t afford to ignore any possibilities.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:37 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

People think that if WOC (Women of Color) are dating White guys, people assume that it is because WOC like being “dominated” by White guys, or that they are seeking rich White guys, when in fact, most white guys aren’t even rich.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:41 am ¶
Mickey wrote:

How about the assumption that two people of different races cannot be together?

I can’t tell you how many times my BF and I walk up to a hostess stand (holding hands, his arm around me) and ask if we are together.

No honey, I just like to pick up random White guys on the street and have them take me to dinner.

I know it’s not as bad as the rest on the list, but it still pisses me off.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:42 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

From what I’ve heard, LGBT dating is certainly not free of racism and fetishization.

I don’t know that much about the topic, but here’s an interesting post, video and discussion on some concerns of gay Asian men.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:44 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

nancyp:
as i identify as bisexual, i can comment on this a bit. in IRs i have been in with women, these issues still come up. we weren’t really stared at per se b/c of racial differences (my female exes were dominican (2) and black/white biracial (1) , and we were phenotypically similar. the stares more related to our being two girls together. however, within the lgbt club scene and personal ads, etc, race is certainly a consideration. just because someone is gay or lesbian, for example, doesn’t mean he/she can’t be racist. there are similar problems of recognition of lgbt folks of color and/or of lower class levels, etc within the community. one need to look no further than nyc for the divide (christopher st/west village lgbt folks of color vs. chelsea’s upper class white lgbt). there is also little visibility of poc lgbt folks in the media…they’re getting better, but people generally still ignore them and their having to deal with multiple levels of oppression. all these issues play out in relationships, of course, as well, just as with straight couples.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:45 am ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Your story indicates one for sure, the idea that only black women have a problem with interracial relationships.

Every group has their own dynamic and how they react to things. Being married to an Arab woman I find many Arab men HATE the fact I am married to “one of their own.”

The fact that she is Saudi adds a nationality issue into it. Sometimes it is “how did he get a Saudi woman”.

From Arab women who’d love to marry an American guy there is the unrealistic idea of what American men are like as opposed to Arab men.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:48 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

How about:

if a Muslim WOC dates a non-Muslim, white guy, OTHER White people think, “damn, Muslim guys must be really awful. That’s why she’s dating a non-Muslim guy.”

The article fails to mention INTER-FAITH relationships. How about Muslims or Hindus dating “Western” faith-based people? Inter-faith relationships seem just as difficult as interracial relationships. Because, uhhh, faith is a huge part in relationships, no?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:49 am ¶
Mickey wrote:

@ Sulyp

I think I know what you’re talking about. I get the hairy eyeball from a few Asian women every now and then.

I’m not braggin (ok I am) but the BF is pretty good looking; I’ve had *some *Asian women stare at him then look over at me and it just didn’t compute.

It sounds weird, but I got the sense that they felt like I had took one of “their” men (White, tall and good looking).

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:49 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

That video was really great! I know a gay asian man who’s never dated an asian and I thought it a bit unusual, but perhaps that’s not so rare.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:53 am ¶
Winn wrote:

Those of us in IRs can hold faulty assumptions too. This assumption has been covered numerous times here on Racialicious, and it is part of the subtext of Wendi’s post (I second the motion, Wendi, please write about and hopefully publish your findings!): “I can’t be racist; I have interracial sex!” Over the years, it was often a painful and disillusioning process for me as a WOC to discover my white partners often had disturbing ideas about race in general and AAs specifically, and sometimes used our relationship as an excuse or buffer for their prejudices and biases. I have become much more selective over the years, and have also done a lot of soul-searching to find out why I was drawn to these men in the first place. It’s a humbling, embarrassing, and painful process, but was absolutely necessary for me to get to the great relationship I have today. But the first part of the process required me to reject the assumption that just because a man dated me, it meant he was an antiracist and dedicated to the same struggle I was.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:54 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

wow winn…that’s a powerful thought…IRs as a form of assauging white guilt…

no, i am not trying to derail the post, btw. lol

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:56 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

assuaging*

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:57 am ¶
Feminist Punk! wrote:

Let me ask all Asians and Asian Americans here this question.

Why is it that East Asian Americans are MORE OPEN-MINDED with interracial relationships? But South Asian Americans aren’t as open-minided with IR???

I am so curious why. When I was growing up, (I am South Asian, just in case anyone is wondering), I was always puzzled why Chinese Americans were allowed to date White people, when in our Indo-Pak community, it was “forbidden” (well, frowned upon) to even talk about dating outside our race and culture (hell, even our religion, whether Islam or Hinduism or Sikhism).

can anybody say why?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:57 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

What about interracial relationships that fails for whatever reason and one partner then gets into an intraaracial relationship. Bennifer, A friend of the family who walked in on her white husband in bed with one of his white female students. When it’s a bad result, there’s the subtle message that they shouldn’t have tried to marry outside their race and the only reason it didn’t work was race. I have to admit that the whole J Lo thing made me suspect Affelck’s parent were being racist but I absolutely have no proof, just groudless suspicions.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:05 am ¶
Ailurophile wrote:

The assumption that I (a WF) am in an IR because “I can’t do any better” chaps my shorts. As does the “fetish” thing. And the “you’re stealing OUR men” thing.

Something that chaps my shorts even more, and isn’t exclusive to IR’s, is “the woman is the one responsible for the relationship” assumption. If I’m in an IR, it’s because *I* pursued the guy. If I’m NOT in an IR, it’s because *I* am so fussy and racist. I see this assumption at work whenever an “interracial dating gender gap” is discussed. Black women are fussy and won’t date outside their race. Asian women “pursue” white men. White women don’t want Asian men. Why are we women the ones held responsible for relationships when it takes two to tango? Where does that leave gay men?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:07 am ¶
different Ali wrote:

in addition to many others above, I’ve hit on the assupmtion that people need to be warned about IR relationships before hand.
I’ve never gotten “I didn’t know ____ was white” but I have gotten “I didn’t know ____ was black” more times than I can count.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:09 am ¶
Versai wrote:

When I came out to my mom, she assumed that I would have to be in an interracial relationship because she thought black lesbians/bi women were scarce.

I think that assumption ties in with the belief that gay=white and that blacks who are gay must have been converted by some white person.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:10 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

@wendi- I’m not sure it’s about assuaging guilt or just hating your cake and eating it, too. My sister’s soon to be ex-husband is anti-black racist but, poor him, he is attracted to black women. That must be a tough dichotomy According to my sister, the porn on his computer all involved black women so at least it was consistent. If the porn matches your mate does that mean that you have a fetish or that you prefer porn that reminds you of your wife? There’s no way for me to assess that concordance in my relationship becuase there’s no porn that looks like us.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:13 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

@FeministPunk: I wouldn’t exactly call it open-mindedness. It’s more a reflection of different economics, migration patterns and demographics, with only some cultural elements in the mix.

For example, Japanese-Americans have historically been scattered around and not concentrated as much, except in a few places in Hawaii and the West Coast. When you’re a member of a family or set of families surrounded by another culture, you assimilate rapidly.

Asian adoptees have the the highest out-marriage rates of all.

People have a strong biological tendency to be sexually attracted to the people that they’re raised around (as long as they’re not blood related). A lot of psychological studies have shown that.

Also, honorary white status and the high sexual value placed on East Asian women (a relatively new development in the 20th century) has meant that Asian women have been actively pursued by white men in a way that other women have not.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:14 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

The only warning I received about IR dating was not to “bring home another races trash” . In other words, if you outmarry, have someone of *quality* to show for it. Why go through the trouble of such a relationship for someone poor/low SES.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:23 am ¶
wendi muse wrote:

an assumption my own family often made is that if one is destined to be successful, one is destined to marry white. they thought that i would marry a white guy because of the way i spoke, my interests, etc, all the while forgetting that other people of color could share my interests and goals as well…

the same assumption was made of one of my black male friends, whose family assumed he would marry a white woman because he wanted to go to med school. however, he’s gay so…oops!

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:47 am ¶
CScarlet wrote:

I am a lesbian and I feel like there is NOT as much talk about it in LGBT spaces, and that racism is more tolerated or ignored because we’re all supposed to be united under a common oppression or some shit. I’m white, my longest relationship was with an Asian American woman, and the utter bull I got from people was insane. I don’t know if she ever got crap from people about dating me, but people very commonly:

- tried to imply that because my current partner was Asian American that I must have some sort of Asian fetish, and would say things like “Oh, you REALLY like Chinese food” or something similar. I am also a Chinese minor, so people evidently thought they had me figured out, and tried to relate her back to my field of study, like I was dating her for extra credit or something.
- try to make me verify racist/misogynist stereotypes about Asian women, my other ex-girlfriend actually asked me: “Is it true what they say about Asian girls?” and when I (shocked) asked “What do they say?” she just said “You know!” with a wink.

As the white partner, I feel like other racist white people felt like they could ask me blatantly racist things without a penalty. Every time I was very cold with them, and I said more than a few times straight up “That’s racist- I can’t believe you would ask me that!”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:04 pm ¶
J wrote:

see, stuff like this is exactly why i am somewhat dreading when the bf makes a trip this side of the pond to visit. when i went to see him, whatever people might have been thinking, we didn’t get stared at or anything. i’m black, the bf is english.

my best friend is a hispanic guy, and he’s gay. we go out, even to the mall, and all of a sudden people start flipping out because people assume we’re dating. i’ve got the “what the hell are you doing?!” look from quite a few people. or i’ve had guys try to hit on me while we’re out (which would be rude if we were dating) and then i get the “oh, black men aren’t good enough for you?”

my friend’s bf is white. so when all three of us are out together somewhere that isn’t chicago, that just gets crazy. someone always assumes one of them is my boyfriend, and then there are assumptions that follow that.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:09 pm ¶
dnA wrote:

A friend of mine used to refer to interracial sex as “The Olympics” because you’re “representing your people.”

That’s all I have to say.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:12 pm ¶
stankerbell wrote:

@FeministPunk! - See I look at it the other way, I live in the PNW and biracial (black/korean) and South Asians have no problem w/ dating me and I see a lot of IR pairings here however I get no such attention from East Asian men and don’t see very many of them here w/ women of other races.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:16 pm ¶
Ms. Four wrote:

So here’s something I’ve observed in the American expat community overseas: I’ve seen lots of average looking older American white guys with GORGEOUS younger wives, often women of color but sometimes white women, and all from developing countries. So I guess the mistake I try not to take is assuming there is a power/money dynamic in ALL these relationships, something that makes the guy more attractive physically than he is.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen the reverse - an older white woman with a younger very attractive man of color. I’m sure it happens but it’s far less than common.

Not quite the dynamic you had in mind, Latoya, but something that’s been on my mind.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:21 pm ¶
Josh wrote:

I’m a white guy married to a Chinese-American woman. We have an almost-two year old son who looks a lot more like his mother than he looks like me, so one assumption I’ve encountered is that, if you see a white parent with a child who doesn’t look 100% white, they must be adopted.

When my son was born, we lived in Chicago. We were in a very diverse neighborhood with a large Asian-American population (Uptown), but I can’t tell you how many times folks stopped me on the street, in the supermarket, on the L, etc., to ask obnoxious questions about my son. “Where did you get him?” was the main one, but there was one particularly gross white guy on the L who went on about how badly he wanted to get “a Asian girl” and asked how I found one - “Did you go to China?” Of course, I told him no, that my wife was born in Springfield, Illinois.

Last summer, we moved to Oakland, CA - the area where I grew up - and I haven’t gotten a single such comment since. Not once. I don’t if it’s because there are more Asian-Caucasian mixed race folks here, or if it’s because Californians are less gregarious and less likely to chat up strangers than Midwesterners. Either way, I don’t miss it.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:32 pm ¶
Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

I have to admit I still have an issue with the Black Man-White woman-dating-thing. Why? Because I grew up in a city where White women routinely disrespected Black women but loved our men. I grew up in a city where Black women were virtually ignored by Black men. Yet they paid a great deal of attention to White women. At the end of the day it’s not my business so I don’t give people stares or anything but I personally have my feelings…

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:37 pm ¶
domino diablo wrote:

As a white/latino lesbian who loves black women I have a difficult time finding an open-minded black female to date.
I live in Louisiana,and find most sisters just feel they can’t trust someone outside their race.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:48 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:

@domino diablo-I’m curious/nosy. Are you trying to find someone to date and you’re open to black women or are you trying to find a black woman to date. If it’s the latter then why?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 12:56 pm ¶
mr guy wrote:

“wendi muse wrote:

an assumption my own family often made is that if one is destined to be successful, one is destined to marry white. they thought that i would marry a white guy because of the way i spoke, my interests, etc, all the while forgetting that other people of color could share my interests and goals as well…”

Ahahahaha!!I use to get this as kid growing up from other black people wendi. The idea was that I was too soft, too quiet, and not culturally black enough (which apparently meant not into hip hop or some other stereotyped activity) to be with a “STRONG” (their emphasis not mine) black woman.And they were serious about it too.

As for assumptions I’ve come across, the most common in my experience would be about sex.The person their with must be a “freak” in the bed if they’re with a “insert race here”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
superchunk12 wrote:

Scarlett wrote:

I am married to a man of colour and have often been told by women of colour that I “took” him away from them. Assumption much. He made the move on me.

Scarlett,
The fact is that Black women are not touted as paragons of beauty or even femininity. Therefore, there is often a deeply ingrained sense of not being wanted. You are speaking of a figurative move, and being flippant, rather trying to understand these women. Honestly, I have never heard of a woman of any race telling that to someone in this situation that they weren’t friendly with or related to. If they are your friends, it may do you some good to ask them how come they feel that way, even if they aren’t your friends, it may help you understand someone’s point of view better and help you to become less adversarial

MOD NOTE: Please remember, we are only discussing assumptions. We are challenging these assumptions later. My first official IR Dating piece will tackle this very issue, probably loading on Monday. - LDP

Posted 07 May 2008 at 1:54 pm ¶
CG wrote:

@ different Ali: I used to get that all the time when i was with my ex-fiance (who was black, and I’m white). I just never felt the need to preface any discussion about him with “my boyfriend, who is black…”. It doesn’t have any bearing on the conversation, nor does it really matter in the big scheme of things, so why should I “warn” people? I usually go back with “I didn’t know your wife was white?” (to a white person).

I’ve gotten ‘the stare’ a lot, but I always tried not to let it bother me. I’m very friendly and befriend strangers easily, so usually what starts as evil-eye from black women ends with “girl, we should hang out sometime”. My ex, however, was extremely sensitive to it, to the point where he refused to go to a local a pizza place because it was in a predominantly white neighborhood and he’d be the only black person there. He would get mad at me for not being sensitive to that. But at the same time he had no problem whatsoever taking me to a predominantly black nightclub without even asking. Weird double standards with him.

OH - and I must mention we’ve gotten a “miss, are you here against your will?” from a local police officer who pulled us over once. That was fun.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 1:55 pm ¶
Krista wrote:

I am a white woman married to a Filipino man. You wouldn’t believe the angry stares we get! A Filipina hissed at us as we walked by in the park, “You could do so much better than her”. WTF. His dad didn’t come to our wedding, and continues to try to set him up with Filipinas. People assume that he has some sort of aversion to Filipinos, and obviously I must have a fetish! I also get the weird comment “You’ll have beautiful babies” very, very often from both white and Filipina women.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:06 pm ¶
Abu Sinan wrote:

Assumptions? We live in an area where lots of people have nannies.

Both our boys are very white looking, very light skin, dark blond hair and hazel eyes. When my wife goes out with them the assumption is that she is the maid.

How else would a dark skinned, dark haired and dark eyed lady have two white children?

Even though she is Arab (but could pass for Latina for those who dont know better) people assume she is a Latina maid.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:13 pm ¶
Ailurophile wrote:

Reading some of the responses here reminds me of another IR-relationship assumption: that your relationship is somehow public property. People feel *entitled* to comment, quiz you, make assumptions, etc. that they wouldn’t about a same-race (or not visibly IR) couple. It’s unfortunate (IMO) that bystanders feel entitled to get up and in the business of IR couples.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:22 pm ¶
Joanna wrote:

@Anonymous:
“How about the assumption that a man and a woman walking down the street together must be banging each other??? There’s quite a bit of heterosexist assumptions along with the racist ones about interracial dating.”

YES. Thank you. That was my first reaction as well, because of personal experience.

I’m a lesbian, and I feel like whenever I hang out with a guy friend, people automatically assume we’re in a relationship. I almost feel guilty, like I am hiding behind a heterosexual mask, even though I’m not trying to. And since I’m Asian/mixed and have a bunch of white guy friends, I feel even more like I am being judged on the basis of interracial relationships, even though they’re not real.

Then, when I’m with my girlfriend, well… another kind of judgment begins. What fun.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:36 pm ¶
TonyFig wrote:

As a latino man who has dated women of other ethnicities it’s all too often assumed that I must hate latinas because I’m dating non latinas. It’s sad when I hear latinas chastising me for taking the “other” women seriously. I’ve also had the experience of being a disappointment to non latina women because I didn’t fulfill their desire for a stereotype. I was born and raised in the ghettoes of Brooklyn and some women want “ghetto lite” from us; you know, just enough to tittilate but not so much that I’d embarass them in front of “polite society”.

This is just crazy. There’s not enough love going on in this world as it is so people have to find more reasons to divide us.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:46 pm ¶
different Ali wrote:

CG@65
I’ll have to remember that response if I ever date IR again. My response in the past has always been to ask point blank “Does it matter?”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:47 pm ¶
Nix wrote:

1. That I hate myself and other dark-skinned folk or somehow value light skin over my own or think that it’s more beautiful or that I secretly want to be White or that I am weak because I date someone outside of my own race.

2. That if my White date/partner isn’t rich and/or fitting the American normative standard of beauty with a few “ethnic” things thrown in (big ass, full lips, etc.) then I must REALLY hate myself and/or dark-skinned people because, “If you’re gonna date one of ‘em why would you choose a [fat/ugly/weird/broke/etc.] one.

3. That my White date/partner is exploiting me, only interested in street-cred, or wants to be something other than white.

4. That race must consume every aspect of every interaction.

5. That I wouldn’t be queer if I hadn’t gone to a predominantly White school.

6. That I’m unaware that some motivations of some White people I get to know for dating purposes may be suspect–and that it’s any less painful than suspect motivation of people of color I might date; that being treated as (for instance) a sex object by a Black man should be more desirable somehow than being the fetish of a White woman.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:56 pm ¶
Leigh wrote:

assumptions:
1. i’m white and have a little waist and big ass/hips, which is why only men of color will date me.
2. my big ass is the only reason my biracial (b/w) bf is with me.
3. it’s okay to say racist things of all spectrums around me because my SO is mixed.
4. our kids will be ugly/not as smart/disadvantaged.

it kills me that to this day, i’ve only been able to tell one of my grandparents about his racial identity. the rest of them think he is white.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 2:58 pm ¶
Jann wrote:

I am white and married to a south east Asian man. When we were dating I had several friends/family joke or suggest that we were planning a fraudulent green card marriage. I think there is some type of suspicion that mixed race/immigration status marriages are marriages of convenience. I think this a variant on the marrying white is marrying-up theme. I find it irritating.

Also, a few of my family members also expressed concern that if I moved back to Indonesia with my husband, I would get trapped in some kind of a “not without my daughter” situation. I don’t think they would have expressed this concern if I had been engaged to a white European or Canadian. Although, I didn’t press them for a further explanation, I believe it stemmed from the fact that Indonesia is a “developing nation” and perhaps because it is predominantly Muslim.

I also get a lot of the “you are going to have beautiful babies” comments – I take this as a complement – even though I am aware that it would be really odd (boarding on inappropriate) to say to an intra-racial couple in the same context.

Ok, this is kind of a tangentially related, but when people see my wedding picture on my desk at work, they ask “where is my husband from.” Although he is not a US citizen, there is no way they could actually know that by just looking at the photo – I find it interesting that they assume he is not American.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 3:24 pm ¶
Asha wrote:

@Abu Sinan:

When I was born, my mom came across the same situation, but in reverse. She’s pale, blond, and green-eyed and I have light skin but dark hair and dark eyes. People assumed she was my nanny, all because of phenotypical characteristics.

In certain places my family gets asked if we want separate checks if we’re at a restaurant.

I’m also struggling with my own assumptions when dating white men, namely of their ability to understand the multi-racial, multi-cultural experience.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:02 pm ¶
sylvie wrote:

white and asian men have found issue with that fact that i’ve dated one black man (i am asian). they always want to know about the penis size. it’s like an odd combination of racializing black men as the buck yet wanting to see how they (excuse the terrible pun) measure up against them.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:02 pm ¶
TierList E wrote:

I don’t think I have any to add, really, but I want to second #42 I believe- Oh my goodness I can’t believe I tried to think that white men who’d date black were automatically more open-minded. One the surliest white men I ran across was one I was “talking to”, and one I did actually date was trying to adopt every stereotype as God given truth.

Lol, but I think we got each other- they were very surprised to hear me (angrily) contradict them. I think they thought that since I would date them I was one of those “non-black” blacks that probably disliked minorities more then they do.

As a reverse assumption- I’ve ran into some automatically defensive IR couples in my lifetime. As if just because I’m a bw I’m going to care. The white woman is usually the more the more hostile of the two, but I’ve gotten it from both partners. It’s kinda funny, but can get awkward. The best one was when I ran into an IR alone, got the defensive stink eye, than ran across them again when I was with my (white) date. The look on their face was priceless. Oh! . . .Yeah, oh.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:10 pm ¶
CG wrote:

@Different Ali 71:
I like to play dumb with ignorance. They tilt their head and look like a deer in headlights with confusion. I can practically see the wheels spinning in their head, trying to process why I would say that, ’cause of course he’d marry white. He’s white. :/

I’ve had people assume I was Puerto Rican (because in the tri-state area that’s the only kind of spanish-speaking people that exist :/ …another stereotype) because of my shape and being with a black man. This makes me laugh because I’m eastern european.

White people have commented that I’m trying to be something I’m not. Which is funny because I have more in common with the minority friends I have than with the white-american friends of mine. If they spent time talking to me about my life and my background they’d see this. But then again, these are the same people who believe everything and everyone is either black or white, one or the other, categorized and filed perfectly into little cubby-holes and there’s no blending.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:19 pm ¶
snc wrote:

My fiance is black and I’m half Lebanese/half white. The biggest assumptions I’ve come across lately is surprise that we are getting married and surprise that my parents are “ok with this.” This has all been from casual aquaintances and co-workers. They make a double assumption: first, that because my dad is from the Middle East he would not “allow” me to marry a black man; second, that dating my SO would be ok if it were a fling but not as a lifelong commitment. (I should note here that my SO has no greater champions than my parents, but I will admit that, at first, there were some misconceptions that needed clearing up. I’m just grateful that they spoke up and wanted to try to understand.)

I have to echo what some of the others have said too - I am appalled by what “advice” people think they can offer. A roommate of mine told me that I should meet a friend of hers. When I asked why, she said because he was half white/half black and could give me insight on my relationship and help me think through if I wanted to have bi-racial children. Another acquaintance asked me if I would be ok with no one thinking my future kids are mine - “They’ll shout mommy and everyone will wonder why you run over.”

I wonder if my friends and some of my family have some of the same responses or concerns and just hold them back for fear of appearing unaccepting or ignorant.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:20 pm ¶
All-American Girl wrote:

In Japan, when I date Japanese men, we also got The Stare in public. (I didn’t interpret it as a “hate stare,” simply because I was used to being examined with very polite but very pointed curiosity while out and about solo.)

People who I knew well enough to talk to about the situation (their own reactions to my being part of an IR couple, I mean) often admitted that they wondered why I even *wanted* to date Japanese men. The unspoken assumption seemed to be that white men are inherently superior.

Oddly, Asian men who I’ve dated almost always assume that I’m dating them because I’m quote-unquote easy or only in it for a quick adventure. Even the man who pursued me for over a year before I agreed to have dinner with him had this prejudice about non-Japanese women.

Take from any of that what you will.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 4:49 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

That if you primarily date outside of your race/are primarily physically attracted to people outside of your race that you’re self-hating, hate the gender of your race that you’re “supposed” to be dating, have a fetish, or have extensive “issues”.

I’m mostly attracted to non-black men, I know it’s widely seen as a bad thing, I occasionally wonder why my feelings are what they are — especially when it makes actually dating much more difficult — but what do people expect me to do about it, besides feel guilty? Then there’s the double standard — I know that the admonitions against such feelings in the black community are primarily geared towards men, even though gender-neutral language is almost always used.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 5:12 pm ¶
EH wrote:

Ya it can be a bit annoying how people react to IR. And one of the most annoying things that was mentioned earlier is how everyone seems to think that they can critique and offer unsolicited advice/comments regarding your partner if they aren’t your race.

I can relate to the black guy up top when he says that a lot of people assume your dating habits based on how you act, your interests, etc. I’ve had to deal with that from friends, people I barely know, co-w0rkers, and even my own family. It got to me so much that I really feel uncomfortable talking about who I’m dating unless they’re black (and I’ve never dated a black woman not that I’m opposed to it). I don’t even tell my family (who every now and then inquire if I’m gay).

And I’m glad I realized at a younger age that just because someone is in an IR doesn’t mean that they don’t have their own prejudices and biases. Hell I have mine but I try my hardest not to project them onto others. As the puerto rican gentleman above (sorry I couldn’t find your post and don’t remember your name!) said I’ve run into a lot of women (usually white) who seem more interested in their preconceived notion of who they want me to be, based on their own biases, prejudices, or stereotypes than they actually do me.

I also hate how many people out there are willing to be fetishized as long as it gets them laid or they’re being fetishized by a group that they have a fetish/bias for. This includes intra-racial couplings as well. I’ve met plenty of people who have very stereotypical ideas of how “their women” or “their men” are supposed to act/behave.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 5:30 pm ¶
Winn wrote:

“I think they thought that since I would date them I was one of those “non-black” blacks that probably disliked minorities more then they do.”

TierListE, you are so right. This is definitely an element of these bizarre interactions. I have run across a few people like this is the IR blogosphere: whites who seriously dislike black people in general, but seriously like them sexually, and seek out what they imagine are self and community hating blacks as partners so they can indulge in their hatred with being perceived as racists. It’s an outgrowth of those, “You’re ok, you’re not like those other black people” backhanded compliments I used to get when I was in school. As Wendi noted, having certain interests/tastes/modes of speech signifies to some that you must be “interacially oriented”. But we associate this belief with POC, and I think whites suffer from it as well. I’m sure this can be extrapolated to other racial/ethnic dating combinations, but it seems to be more evident and stark in black/white IRs, and goes far beyond a fetish. Although, when I put such situations in historical context, I don’t know why I should be surprised that it’s possible to balance this kind of discordant thinking without too much difficulty. Perhaps I drank too much “love knows no color” Koolaid in the 90’s!

Posted 07 May 2008 at 5:32 pm ¶
Michelle wrote:

My white boyfriend and I don’t get the stare quite so much here in LA as we did when we lived in NYC. Actually, I feel like Los Angeles HAS to be the interracial dating capital of the country. While it does still happen here, most everywhere else we go, people stare or assume we’re not together at the checkout stand or something.

But one time I remember walking around Chicago with my bff (who is also a white dude) and some crazy guy ran up to us and started yelling in our face about how Bill Cosby said whites and blacks aren’t supposed to be together. He was seriously irate, to the point that I was actually quite frightened of turning my back on him.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 5:34 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

@ superchunk12

Scarlett,
The fact is that Black women are not touted as paragons of beauty or even femininity. Therefore, there is often a deeply ingrained sense of not being wanted. You are speaking of a figurative move, and being flippant, rather trying to understand these women. Honestly, I have never heard of a woman of any race telling that to someone in this situation that they weren’t friendly with or related to.

Actually, I’ve seen what you and scarlett describe happen quite a number of times both personally and with friends. I’ve seen Black women be dismissive to insulting to a black man’s partner. I’ve also heard one non-black partner of black man make ridiculously generalized statements like “Black women don’t like me”. So yes, it goes both ways.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 6:46 pm ¶
schmidt wrote:

In my experience (white, queer, female) and among my white community:

#1. White people dating other races are trying to get rid of their racism/priviledge or be “more than white”. It falls in the same self-hating, race traitor category and there are similar assumptions about white folks that make other “non-white” culture choices (neighborhoods, music, etc.) I think there’s a perception that dating a person of color is like another notch on the belt of a multicultural white person (along with jazz, sweat lodges, travel to central America…) Flip side would be that a white activist who hasn’t dated POC hasn’t really “completed” fixing their own prejudices…

#2. White women dating men of color are trying to switch up the gender power thing. (ie. “taking the lead” with Asian or black men, must be a misogynist self-hater if she’s dating Latino or Arab, etc.) This goes along with the black penis thing - assuming that a white woman would need a reason to give up all her hard-earned priviledge and date “beneath” her.

#3. LGBTQ folks are more open to IR because they’re already outside the norm. As if I had to pass some sort of “open, multicultural test” before getting a crush on someone.

I’m trying to focus on just getting these out there for now. I definitely don’t agree fully with them - pretty ridiculous once I started writing and naming them. But I’ve also had each one pop up multiple times in my head along with all the other f-ed up stereotypes, etc. Sometimes I wish I could MAKE THE VOICES STOP!

Posted 07 May 2008 at 6:56 pm ¶
Morpho wrote:

To speak on the gay male perspective, interracial dating in the gay community is okay, as long as it is the right combination.

Asians date whites.
Whites date asians or ‘white-looking’ latinos.
Blacks date blacks, and it is questionable when they date whites (cue others’ previously mentioned stereotypes).

The gay community, is San Francisco and everywhere, is extremely discriminatory. Just look at Craigslist and count the ads that specifically say ‘No blacks and no asians’….

Anyway, it’s interesting when I (AA) walk with my Spaniard boyfriend… but then again, we speak Spanish…

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:18 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

*kisses Morpho*

Just to clarify, AA in Morpho’s post means African-American, not Asian American.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:23 pm ¶
D wrote:

I’m an adopted Asian woman who has mostly dated white men. It’s not a conscious decision. I’m just more attracted to white men. The one thing I used to get a lot (though I haven’t as much recently) were other white men coming up to me and whoever my partner was, and telling us that they also have an Asian girlfriend or wife. The conversation usually starts out with the “Where are you from?” line and after trying to avoid the question, I reluctantly answer “Korea” because the answer “I grew up in America” is never satisfactory. After which, I hear “Oh! Well my gf/wife is from .” Sometimes it’s followed up with a comment about what it’s like being with an Asian woman, or a “we should get together sometime” as if having an Asian gf in common was like having a shared hobby. Just because some random person has an Asian wife/gf does not automatically mean I want to meet or hang out with them. I’m not sure I’ll ever understand the thought process behind that.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:28 pm ¶
Tom wrote:

I’m a White man, my girlfriend is a South Asian woman.
1. She hears from WoC on campus that she is perpetuating the stereotype that South Asian men are not attractive/not attractive to South Asian women.
2. Same accusation, kinda, but that she is wasting herself on a white boy.
3. On the opposite end of the spectrum, she gets the “you’re lucky you found a liberated/Nice guy” thing from some people, she used to get it a lot. Which annoys her and me to no end, like she needs to be told how “well she did.”
4. More seriously, the idea that she should be judged on my (meager) merits, not her own awesomeness.

I’m worried about when we’ll leave our sheltered college, and hit the big outside world of racism.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 7:29 pm ¶
B. wrote:

Hm.
I’m a Black girl who dates Black dudes exclusively. Every now and then, a Black man will approach me. I may or may not be interested. When I express that I’m not interested, the response has almost always been: “Oh. You date white guys.” The Black men I work with have also assumed this about me.
I dont quite know what to make of it (and I never respond) because I feel it would require me to justify myself to a stranger about something that’s not his business.
Does this speak to the issue of assumptions about interracial relationship or am I off topic?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 8:26 pm ¶
cooper wrote:

assumptions to white woman dating a black man:
> you’re in it to upset your parents/exoticizing/fetishizing
>you’re going to have black women giving you the stare every time you go anywhere because they’re mad that you’re taking their men.
>he’s with you because you’re a trophy, or to prove how assimilated he is
>you’re proving how not racist you are

Posted 07 May 2008 at 9:46 pm ¶
Mikhaela Reid wrote:

I love the way you’ve started off this series, Latoya. And Atlasien, I love your list of assumptions.

After reading this, I tried to remember if I’ve ever experienced the stare (I’m a white woman married to a black man, and we’ve been together four years and traveled around the country quite a bit together).

I can’t pin down any real experience with the stare, though I tend to be a pretty oblivious person to things like that, so I won’t swear it’s never happened. I try never to assume that people around me are giving disapproving looks, as I don’t want to get into a paranoid/defensive mode.

What does happen pretty frequently that I notice is many people don’t realize we’re together unless we’re close/touching/holding hands. Like one time we were in a store and the clerk asked me whether I needed help and I was like “oh, no, I’m just waiting for my husband.” Husband was right there, but she looked around in puzzlement (presumably for a white guy).

And of course, I get that horrible “oh, your children will be so beautiful” nonsense from well-meaning people (which implies the racist idea that darker-skinned black children are somehow not automatically as beautiful).

Finally, I’m surprised at how freely people still say racist crap in front of me even if they know–and how surprised they are when I call them on it.

As for trends and numbers and why most heterosexual IR relationships break down into black guy/white girl or white guy/asian girl–I’m not saying they don’t mean anything, but I’m not sure how much they really mean, or why they always have to be trotted out to interrogate IR relationships. As many others have pointed out above, it seems like intra-racial relationships get to be magically free of interrogation, because they’re considered “normal” and “natural.”

I think another assumption is that IR dating is something “new” or just generational. It’s hardly scientific, but I was thinking about my wedding, where there was a pretty large percentage of IR couples among the 20 and 30 and 40 somethings–but also a few among the 50-somethings–and even an 80-something white woman who was the widow of my husband’s (black) great-uncle.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:23 pm ¶
Mikhaela Reid wrote:

P.S. One more assumption: that it is somehow safer/less offensive to depict intraracial couples in advertising/movies/cartoons, etc.

I’m a political cartoonist for the alternative and LGBT press, and very very few political cartoonists draw people of color in cartoons that don’t focus on race at all… Usually they just draw tons of white intraracial couples, and when they do draw any people of color, it’s invariably an intraracial couple.

So I tend to draw an awful lot of IR couples into my work, both hetero and same-sex couples–but I also try to make sure I draw a good number of intraracial couples as well.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 10:33 pm ¶
jen* wrote:

maybe this one was mentioned, but there is the assumption that interracial relationships will not last - that they’re doomed from the beginning.

particularly in the cases of black man/white woman the stereotype implies that the woman will be left to raise many babies, with no help.

it disturbs me to even come up with these. ugh.

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:08 pm ¶
cupcakey wrote:

wow DominoDiablo
I have to say my experience has been totally different. I’m also a Latina living in Louisiana and I’ve predominately dated black women. I’ve never had trouble finding a sister to date. But then maybe I’m just hot (j/k).

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:35 pm ¶
Keke wrote:

I think one big assumption is that two people of different racial backgrounds cannot possibly love one another. People assume that there is no emotion stronger than lust involving that particular relationship. Perhaps it all boils down to the basic assumption that a person of color is not really human, and therefore not capable or worthy of love. It’s a shame some people may actually believe in this nonsense.

Even though my husband is not white, but multiracial, he is often mistaken for being a white man in a relationship with an African American woman. We get the stares and the hateful whispers all the time. If this is just the tip of the iceberg, I can only imagine what kind of hate interracial couples get on a daily basis.

Michaela, I get you on how people say it’s “generational”. As long as humans have been around there’s been intermarriage. And I also get the “oh your children will be beautiful,” but usually it goes even further and degenerates into a conversation about me having children with “good hair and his nice green eyes.” I find myself thinking “So, if they have my dark brown eyes and curly/kinky hair they won’t be beautiful?”

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:42 pm ¶
A. wrote:

For reference, I’m a white woman who’s been dating a South Asian man for several years now.

I think one of the biggest assumptions perpetuated by movies and TV, etc. is that every minute of an interracial couple’s life is fraught with racially-related complications. In reality, most of the time we shop for groceries and go for ice cream and talk on the phone and watch TV like intraracial couples.

There’s also the assumption that dating a man of color / having friends of color / being culturally aware / speaking languages that are not English makes me somehow less white, or not white. Usually this is intended as a compliment, but it’s kind of backhanded - why can’t a white person do these things without disavowing their heritage?

Posted 07 May 2008 at 11:48 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

Here’s another one…I think someone previously mentioned the perception that the only “real” interracial relationships are those that include a white person… there’s another one out there… that the only “real” interracial relationships are those that include a black person. Somehow, the notion that black+non-black is the only kind there is has escaped the porno lab and infested the rest of society.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 1:36 am ¶
Lisa wrote:

As a caucasian woman who mostly dates East Asian guys, I get the most grief not from my conservative family but from Asian/-American women (usually ones who are quite white-washed and date only white men, not that there’s anything wrong with that). Not jealousy, “taking one of ours”, actually, but “why don’t you date white guys because they’re better and you can without grief”. Also get it a lot from some Latina-American friends. Sigh. Here’s my list:

- That multi-racial couples have huge cultural and values gaps between them. I’ve even had boyfriends nit-pick that, and use the “culture” excuse to be dismissive of differences that were entirely personal.

- That my geographic and cultural evolution (migration, assimilation) is only and entirely because of a guy, not because of my own interests and priorities.

- That interracial relationships don’t “count” and are just a lark or stop-gap until we get into a “real” relationship ie with a co-racialist.

- That my bf’s my translator or is dating me for money - because all white people of course are rich!

- That it’s “slumming” or motivated by exotification and experimentalization.

- The “pretty babies!” factor, of course.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:03 am ¶
Tree wrote:

Sometimes I love being a queer female. I don’t have too many limitations; there are no demands on who I associate with.
Although:
1) A decent amount of white female lesbians look at you askance if you direct an interest in women of color
2) Due to heteronormativity in society, I occasionally run into some issues with my best friend, who is African on his father’s side and African American on his mother’s. Latino guys (which, being a mix between European and Native American, it’s not hard for me to be mistaken for a Latina) get a little frazzled at the idea of me ‘being with a black man’
3) My brother, looking 110 percent white, gets funny looks from white girls when he’s hanging out with me in public (and there’s always the long hard stare–the look that tries to pierce the armor of your undefined race so as to better conceive of why you might be with so and so. Looks that always draw on stereotype, identifiers that often play false when applied in reality.)
4) Congratulations. You’ll have beautiful/exotic kids. That’s what they’ll cherish, all right–people congratulating them on being different (i.e., having to listen to folks pat themselves on the back for seeing that there was something exotic about you. It’s great fun to be othered.)

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:18 am ¶
jvansteppes wrote:

I’ve noticed various depictions on TV of white-IR relationships that seem to be designed to bolster ideas of multiculturalism or the idea that America isn’t racist anymore, but its disconcerting because they never address how race would affect the relationship at all or if they do its to show a white person rising above their racist parents.

I live in a gay village and I have to say that in my opinion fetishization reaches a whole new level here, especially for men. Perhaps its because they’re more open about porn and ironically they have a need to divide people into further categories which are inflected with racial undertones. So for instance Asian gay men are assumed to be bottoms, blacks to be tops etc. This trend has accelerated with the onset of heavy commodification in what I used to call our ‘communities’. Also, the recent mythologization of the ‘down low’ man of color has made its way into too many white guys’ fantasies.

I do see a lot of queer whites who also deny the possibility of racism based on their own IR relationships and the added fact that we’re already oppressed in one way so we simply must understand all oppressions.

I have to stop now. Maybe queers need a separate thread…

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:24 am ¶
Gandalf Mantooth wrote:

#1 all time assumption: “Everyone else’s IR relationship is based on some base notions or fetish while the one I am in is all about love and is as pure as the driven snow.”

Posted 08 May 2008 at 2:49 am ¶
Mio wrote:

A trend I see from the above comments: That it’s “about” something other than the two people in the relationship.

The “about” seems to be about one of the following things:

1. identity (self-hate, “passing,” if it says something about either partner’s upbringing/politics/emotional state, and if so, what)
2. sex (fetishization)
3. the pair’s collective identity (where do they belong? where will their hypothetical children belong?)

Posted 08 May 2008 at 4:26 am ¶
Ms. Four wrote:

This is off-track, but I wanted to comment that so many of these assumptions seem to apply to my transracial (through adoption) family. Two white parents + two black kids = (to many people) infertility. We’re not, but people assume we’d never want these black kids if we could have children biologically. Plus there are lots of other assumptions as well. And LOTS of stares, depending on where we are (some places are better than others).

Posted 08 May 2008 at 5:46 am ¶
vida wrote:

I think people expect biracial people to look a certain way and I don’t fit that mold, so people have always thought I was interracial relationship when many times I was not.

I think the biggest assumption other than that was when I date my ex his parents are from India, people swore he was going to kidnap me back to his country and force me to be his slave. The also had no idea what country he was from. Just ridiculous.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 6:08 am ¶
Mikhaela Reid wrote:

one more I just thought of that goes along with the assumption that somehow IR relationships are fraught with conflict/tension having to do with race (when of course the life of most couples is probably incredibly boring and domestic, IR or not!)–the idea that your children will be “tragically torn” between parents, cultures, etc and will be very “confused”. I.E. the old “tragic mulatto” stereotype.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 7:50 am ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:

Did we mention the “once you go ______, you’ll never go back” one?
Because my first boyfriend was white, every time I mention a guy to my mother, even if I’m just talking about a friend, she’ll inevitably ask me if he’s white. Then, I either feel oddly guilty when I confirm that he is or strangely triumphant when I correct her misconception…

Posted 08 May 2008 at 8:35 am ¶
CVT wrote:

Wow - this got overwhelming, FAST. I want to respond to so much, but it’s too much.

Atlasien- I didn’t make the “math” argument. And I’m a bit shocked at the response. My bad. Most of the “assumptions” listed are usually meant to explain the facts I spewed.

I guess I got impatient. I KNOW all the assumptions (I have some of them, myself) - I wanted to jump to the interesting bit that I ask myself about all the time (in regards to my parents) - what goes into it? I truly believe my parents love each other (more so than most other couples I have ever seen). But WHY is it always “white man/Asian woman”? And do the people (especially the men) in these relationships really think and TALK about these assumptions, facts, etc.? Or do they play the “there’s no way I could ‘be like that’” game and just ignore it?

I’m not trying to attack anybody here. Every relationship I’ve ever been in has been “inter-racial” (except one) considering my mixed-background. If there’s guilt around, I must be involved somehow, as well. Just a little surprised at the response to a mis-step (or jump) to the logical follow-up to listing these “assumptions.”

Posted 08 May 2008 at 9:11 am ¶
Mikhaela Reid wrote:

One more! There’s also the assumption that folks in IR relationships are either “COLORBLIND” (you know, like those Republicans who are agaist affirmative action?) or COLORCRAZY. In other words, that they are with their partner either IN SPITE OF that person’s race (which contains the racist idea that they would “normally” prefer to be with “their own kind” or that a person’s race is a flaw that needs to be overlooked)… or BECAUSE OF that person’s race (fetishism).

When really, for many, you’re with the person because of ALL the things that they are, and one of those things is that he/she is [black or white or Asian or Latino/a or multiracial].

Posted 08 May 2008 at 9:56 am ¶
fash wrote:

Hoo boy…I’m a white woman and my husband is an indigenous latino man. It’s hard to tell sometimes which assumptions are related to cultural differences (he is also a Mexican immigrant who speaks limited English) and which are related to racial difference, but sometimes they’re both so tied together. However, we’ll get these language assumptions even when my husband speaks perfectly grammatically because of his accent, but I have also dated a Russian guy with a thick accent before and we got none of the same assumptions.

1. “He’s in it for the papers” (I’m sorry, how would you know his immigration status?)
2. I’m fetishing (people seem to become even more sure of this when they find out that I listen to music in Spanish and am a Spanish minor, rather than considering that I might have been listening to Spanish music for several years and began in order to improve my Spanish abilities, and that I’m a Spanish minor because I want to improve my writing abilities and started taking classes after my marriage)
3. The other day we were in the store and some older white woman was watching us. She already disapproved, but when she heard Spanish come out of my mouth she just got the worst look of disgust on her face. It was creepy.
4. I’m dating him because I’m overweigt and couldn’t get a white man, but Latino and black men like “big women” (…)
5. Our son is beautiful because he’s biracial
6. Our son is a pretty even mix between the two of us, so we’ve both gotten the “not your child” assumption
7. The assumption that we’re not together at a restaraunt or a store when we’re standing there with our son who looks just like both of us
8. The assumption that I’m his boss (?!) or am employing him in some capacity, an assumption usually made when he is in his work clothes
9. “How do you communicate?” (this comes from both Anglos and Hispanics. nobody ever assumes the obvious, that I speak Spanish. my husband has just started telling people “sign language”)
10. “Well, Hispanic guys never get divorces, but they are abusive”

Posted 08 May 2008 at 11:20 am ¶
Shelly wrote:

I’m African-American woman dating a white guy. #1 assumption is that his family is racist. A family member of mine grilled me a few years ago about his family and couldn’t believe that his family has never had a problem with me or that they’ve never said anything even remotely racist to me.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 1:31 pm ¶
jen wrote:

i am asian-american, and my current bf is white (scottish-american). i have often heard from people (even friends!), “oh, you only date white men,” or “you don’t date asians, do you.” they are always surprised when i tell them that i have dated all sorts of ethnicities. i just happen to be with a white person now. i feel like these days people just expect asian-american females to only date white males. (oh, and whenever we go to my favorite dumpling place, he gets some serious stare downs from asian men that have started to make him uncomfortable.)

Posted 08 May 2008 at 3:14 pm ¶
esperanza13 wrote:

my cousin (who is white) just got marreid to a black (African) man, originally from The Republic of Congo.
i was showing some pictures from their wedding to my girlfriends. one of them, who is also black made several comments that i thought were hurtful and, frankly, beneath her.
she told me that he was only marrying her because her skin was fair so that she would “lighten up” his children.
i suppose this would be the idea of “transcending” his race through marrying her.
i found her comment particularly strange, since she herself is dating a white man from Germany.
now, yes, my cousin is fair skinned and her hair is straight. but, she and her husband actually have quite a bit in common: a passionate commitment to their faith, a shared love of food, basketball and wine, both are very close to their families, both love the city of Chicago. They are incredibly supportive of each other and connected to each other.
to discount all of that implied to me that
1) he is shallow and racist
2) that there is nothing to love about my cousin other than her white skin.

Posted 08 May 2008 at 4:03 pm ¶
Bohemian Writer wrote:

Wow. So many replies. OK well get ready for mine cause it’s long

As a brown-skinned black Latina college student from Philadelphia who has dated primarily dated Latinos & whites w/ the exception of my current boyfriend who’s Ethiopian-American. I have a few things I need to address

My primary things about 2 of my white boyfriends from friends/relatives:
“That’s great!”-whites are better stereotype
“You’ll have beautiful babies”-like I thought about marrying them, lol.
“If I don’t want my (future) daughters to have hair issues, marry someone w/ straight hair”-ie-someone NOT black
“Make sure you always have your hair done”-as if having my hair done is the reason I’m w/ him in the first place

Then things I’ve noticed when I’ve been out w/ my white boyfriends:
-black men openly staring at me, making rude comments, whistling that my white boy isn’t “packin’” like they are (this happens ALL the time at Wal-Mart)
-black women either trying not to stare too hard at us or smiling at us.
-white guys checking me out.
-older black couples staring at me disapprovingly for “sleeping with the Enemy”.
-the older white couples have seemed to show interest, however not as evident as with the black couples.

My black girlfriends have asked me:
-”What’s he like in bed?”
-”Have I totally crossed over?” (w/ the 2nd white boyfriend)
-”Pretty babies”
-”Do they have any brothers/friends that like black girls?”

& my personal fave:
“Be careful that he doesn’t have the fever as in Jungle Fever”

Latinos: no problem
Asians: have stared at us before too but never paid that much attention

Once, there was an incident where his parents had gotten us 2 tickets to the Opera & that was by far, an entertaining scene. So many older white couples were entranced & curious by us that it was taking them everything they had not to stare at us, especially when we first got to the show & when we were leaving.

Just my 2 cents. Great post by the way Latoya!

Posted 08 May 2008 at 6:21 pm ¶
marge twain wrote:

@Feminist Punk!:
“Why is it that East Asian Americans are MORE OPEN-MINDED with interracial relationships? But South Asian Americans aren’t as open-minided with IR???”

This isn’t consistent with my experience(I’m 2nd gen American with parents fr