Re-Examining the Phrase “Oppression Olympics”

by Latoya Peterson

Yesterday’s conversation on the article in the Nation has an interesting set of comments revolving around the use of the term “the oppression olympics.”

In our comments policy on Racialicious, we state:

Let’s avoid oppression olympics please. I’m not saying it’s never something to be discussed, but generally speaking, bickering over who has it worse off, or who’s more racist, is really kind of useless.

However, Black Canseco said:

Okay, can i just say that i hate the term Oppression Olympics? It implies that it’s bias and bigotry is some sort of game, almost comical and anytime someone attempts to discuss issues of race, gender they should never be taken seriously.

In her comments, Persia explains:

Black Canseco, I have used “Oppression Olympics” in the past, referring specifically to circumstances where someone compares racism to sexism in a way that implies that one is somehow worse, or more acceptable, or– what have you– than the other. I’ve always used it to call out a technique I feel is used as a distraction from whatever the issue is at hand– for example, just because sexist attacks on Clinton happen doesn’t make racist attacks acceptable or any less important to criticize.

It’s precisely because I think those tactics trivialize the whole debate that I’ve used the term. Now I have to think twice about it.

Sewere noted:

I don’t expect you or tasha will change your minds nor do I expect Drispe or Black Conseco to change theirs, but one thing I’m certain of is your willingness to downplay racism or sexism to shore up your candidate is a disturbing version of the Oppression Olympics and it is annoying as shit. No matter how you spit-shine it, it’s still shit.

And I agreed, generally with his comments. I have unsubcribed to certain blogs because of what has come out because of the elections. People who I usually hold in high regard seem to be bending over backwards to excuse the bad behavior of their candidates and finding all kinds of ways to justify their opinions. Quoting Roseanne Barr like she’s a prophet? Off my blog roll.

However, after Sewere’s comment, things got a bit heated. I asked Black Canseco directly:

If you don’t like the phrase “oppression olympics,” BC, what phrase do you suggest we use to describe that obnoxious phenomenon when people try to use phrases like “no one has suffered more than African-Americans” or “since gender issues affect 51% of the world, those are the most important issues?”

He replied:

latoya,

i offered my opinion on the phrase, nothing more. people will use whichever term they feel works to make their point. not sure why a phrase is needed at all. Some comparisons may work, others are rooted in a lack of understanding viewpoints beyond your own, others still are patently stupid, myopic and self-serving.

why not call it on a case by case as opposed to dumping everything in a bucket, which helps no one?

but what do i know, apparently i’m gender biased.

As I was moderating this comment exchange, I was also digging into some new reading material.

Specifically, Andrea Smith’s essay “Heteropartiarchy and the Three Pillars of White Supremacy: Rethinking Women of Color Organizing.”*

And interestingly, Andrea Smith also disagrees with the term, but for a different set of reasons.

In her essay, Smith outlines three scenarios in which people of color are coming together to organize and meet with conflict. One scenario revolves around a group of women and whether or not Arab and Latina women should identify as women of color if they are classified as white in their countries or pass as white in the states. The next scenario describes some of the arguments put forth when discussing Native Americans (i.e., “since tribes now have gaming, Native peoples are not longer ‘oppressed.’”) The last scenario involves a multiracial coalition which wants to stop the “black/white binary” of racial discussion but “rel[ies] on strategies and cultural motifs developed by the Black Civil Rights struggle in the United States.”

Smith then breaks it down:

These incidents, which happen quite frequently in “women of color” or “people of color” political organizing struggles, are often explained as a consequence of “oppression olympics.” That is to say, one problem we have is that we are too busy fighting over who is more oppressed. In this essay, I want to argue that these incidents are not so much the result of “oppression olympics” but are more about how we have inadequately framed “women of color” or “people of color” politics. That is, the premise behind much of “women of color” organizing is that women from communities vicitimized by white supremacy should unite together around their shared oppression. This framework might be represented by a diagram of five overlapping circles, each marked “Native women, Black women, Arab/Muslim women, Latinas, and Asian American women, overlapping like a Venn diagram.

This framework has proven to be limited for women of color and people of color organizing. First, it tends to presume that our communities have been impacted by white supremacy in the same way. Consequently, we often assume that all of our communities will share similar strategies for liberation. In fact, however, our strategies often run into conflict. For example, one strategy that many people in US-born communities of color adopt, in order to advance economically out of impoverished communities, is to join the military. We then become complicit in oppressing and colonizing communities from other countries. Meanwhile, people from other countries often adopt the strategy of moving to the United States to advance economically, without considering their complicity in settling on the lands of indigenous peoples that are being colonized by the United States.

Consequently, it may be more helpful to adopt an alternative framework for women of color and people of color organizing. I call one such framework the “Three Pillars of White Supremacy.” This framework does not assume that racism and white supremacy is enacted in a singular fashion; rather, white supremacy is constituted by separate and distinct, but still interrelated, logics. Envision three pillars, one labeled Slavery/Capitalism, another labeled Genocide/Capitalism, and the last one labeled Orientalism/War, as well as arrows connecting each of the pillars together.

Smith then goes on to discuss each pillar in depth. I highly recommend reading the whole piece - it is short and direct at eight pages long.

Now here’s an example Smith sites that jumped out at me the most (and I think comes closer to what Black Canseco was trying to get at in the comments):

Our organizing can also reflect anti-Black racism. Recently, with the outgrowth of “multiculturalism” there have been calls to “go beyond the black/white binary” and include other communities of color in our analysis. First, it replaces an analysis of white supremacy with a politics of multicultural representation; if we just include more people, then our practice will be less racist. Not true. This model does not address the nuanced structure of white supremacy, such as through these distinct logics of slavery, genocide, and Orientalism. Second, it obscures the centrality of the slavery logic in the system of white supremacy, which is based on a black/white binary. The black/white binary is not the only binary which characterizes white supremacy, but it is still a central one that we cannot “go beyond” in our racial justice organizing efforts.

If we do not look at how the logic of slaveability inflects our society and our thinking, it will be evident in our work as well. For example, other communities of color often appropriate the cultural work and organizing strategies of African American civil rights or Black Power movements without corresponding assumptions that we should also be in solidarity with Black communities. We assume that this work is the common “property” of all oppressed groups, and we can appropriate it without being accountable.

Damn right. As we get deeper and deeper into the feminism debates, I notice a couple of bloggers who do espouse these anti-black sentiments while using the civil rights movement as a foundation to stand on. Particularly, those bloggers who continually refer to “the blacks” or “the black feminists” and the power of our numbers, as if every time we complain, something is granted and we never worked to be recognized or acknowledged in mainstream feminism. These bloggers are not white. But they are not black either. And it would be foolish to think that if someone is non-white, then they must be allied with black women, or a larger movement that advocates for the rights of women of color.

But that’s a discussion for another time.

For today’s discussion, let’s take a critical look at the phrase “the Oppression Olympics.” How do we feel about the use of the term? And in light of Andrea Smith’s take, does that change your views around using the phrase? And finally, if you feel that the term is outdated, how does one suggest we describe these kinds of situations?

*via WOC PhD by way of Coffee and Ink

(Picture taken from Bint Alshamsa’s blog.)

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Comments

  1. Aaminah wrote:

    Awesome analysis Latoya. :)

  2. EH wrote:

    Personally I’ve never liked the term. Mostly for the reason that Blanco (sp?) stated already. I’m probably over reacting but the term “Opression Olympics” is just something I’d expect to come out of the mouth of some racially ignorant individual complaining about affirmative action, political correctness, or whatever racial/gender/religious issue they feel slighted by at the moment. Logically of course I know this isn’t the case but hearing people use that phrase (especially minorities) has never sat very well with me.

    Although I’ve never really cared enough to say much about it. Personally blacks walking around calling each other the N-word left and right upsets me much more.

  3. Celeste wrote:

    I have never been able to put my finger on what kinda/sorta bothered me about the “move beyond black-whites” premise which seemed fine at face value but still irked me. Thanks for the clarity.

  4. Paul wrote:

    I think people who care about these issues need to look at how different groups have suffered in different ways. For example, Chinese-Americans have been mistreated in this country, but their oppression is much more benign than that of Native Americans.

    This discussion needs to occur because too often people who have suffered lesser forms of oppression and disrcrimination equate their experience with that of those who have suffered attempted genocide. How many times have you heard an Asian-America, white woman, or white homosexual compare their trials and trivails to the Civil Rights movement? These people need to be told how and why the black experience is different than theirs as does anyone who draws an analogy to the experiences of Native Peoples.

    The glass ceiling and the closet are not the same as Wounded Knee and slavery. That cannot be argued by any sane person.

  5. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    I like the phrase “Oppression Olympics.” It summarizes a real and enduring phenomenon in two succinct words.

    Speaking of which, one could argue that women and gays have suffered as much as blacks and Indians. Sure, Wounded Knee was horrible, but it’s not as if every Indian had someone massacred in his or her family. Many just suffered your garden-variety oppression and injustice.

    Re “since tribes now have gaming, Native peoples are not longer ‘oppressed’”: Since a few tribes have become rich from gaming, you could argue that those few tribes are no longer oppressed. But then you’d have to agree that all the tribes that haven’t become rich from gaming are still oppressed.

  6. Dan wrote:

    Wow. Great post!

    My understanding of the “Oppression Olympics” is a little different than the ones listed above — it’s not just an argument about who has it worst — it’s an argument about who has it worst in the context of the distribution of some form of social good. When a Clinton supporter argues that sexism is worse than racism, the implication is that people therefore ought to support Hillary Clinton, as a female, over Barack Obama, as an African American.

    You can imagine a noble goal behind this kind of argument — that whoever has had it worst should be helped first — but the reality of it, to me, is that it sets up a competition between people who have faced systemic discrimination. And for what? To achieve a social position generally provided by privileged folks who are looking for someone to fill a “diversity gap” (a minority hire, a person of color on a working committee). This type of argument, in my mind, is encouraged and perpetuated by multi-cultural tokenism.

    Ultimately I think tying prestige, power or position to the “authenticity” conferred by oppression hurts solidarity and has a ghettoizing effect even on the supposed beneficiaries. This is part of what I take Smith to responding against above.

    The challenge as I see it — which one that this blog takes up — is to find a way to bring out the particularity of various identities in a way that challenges injustice without getting into distributional fights with other oppressed groups.

    My apologies for hiding behind a bunch of academic words; I wish I could explain myself more plainly.

    In any case, thanks for taking to the time to post real, engaging, thoughtful pieces in a blog format. It’s as rare as it exciting.

  7. MNC wrote:

    Paul,
    In some ways you are kind of (sort of) arguing and agreeing with Smith’s point, but to argue that forms of oppression can fall into the “benign” category is a lil’ problematic.

    People can be oppressed in different forms and in different ways, but just because that oppression doesn’t amount to wholesale slaughter doesn’t make it kinder or gentler.

    I agree with Smith’s piece and I think it takes us away from the old models of building coalitions across difference.

  8. baltogeek wrote:

    @Paul

    The glass ceiling and the closet are not the same as Wounded Knee and slavery. That cannot be argued by any sane person.

    I wouldn’t argue that those things are exactly the same but I certainly would say that they pose a threat to people’s live as either direct or indirect results of bigotry.

    When we are talking about some forms of oppression we have to acknowledge and respect that not every act of oppression occurs at some white hot intensity but they are as destructive nonetheless.

    Being in the closet essentially means you live in a homophobic environment and that there is a real danger to a person in coming out as gay.

    You are taking the idea of being in the closet is the totality of what someone has to go through when it is an indication of something much more insidious.

    People don’t construct an entire lie about something as fundamental as your sexuality because their life isn’t in threatened in some way.

    Perhaps you could educate folks at your local GLBT community center about the relative safety of being closeted.

    You’d give the folks there the best laugh they’ve had all week.

  9. Persia wrote:

    You can imagine a noble goal behind this kind of argument — that whoever has had it worst should be helped first — but the reality of it, to me, is that it sets up a competition between people who have faced systemic discrimination. And for what?

    Yes, exactly.

    Paul:

    The glass ceiling and the closet are not the same as Wounded Knee and slavery. That cannot be argued by any sane person.

    But why do we have to discuss who had it worse? Is it productive? Is what happened to Alan Turing ‘worse’ than the average experience under Jim Crow? Why does it matter? Isn’t it far more important, and far more productive, to figure out how to make things better?

    I’m not– absolutely not– trying to say that different varieties of oppression should be dealt with differently– that’s where the Three Pillars come into play, now I have them! But to try to objectively quantify whose cultural experience sucked more is, as far as I’m concerned, a fool’s game. It takes our energy and focus away from our goals, and makes it harder for us to work together.

    I really like the “three pillars.”

  10. Tara wrote:

    Paul - Though I agree that oppressions are not comparable and that this needs to be discussed, I would also argue that it also isn’t useful to assume someone’s experience of oppression based on a single identity category.

    For example, you state that “The glass ceiling and the closet are not the same as Wounded Knee and slavery. That cannot be argued by any sane person.”

    True, those are not the same things. However, not all people within the same identity categories experience the same degrees of oppression. Part of this has to do with the way that our identities intersect with each other, so that people who belong to multiple oppressed categories may have more lived experiences of oppression.

    To bring it to the concrete, though it is true that queer folks have not had a historical experience of slavery or a massacre like Wounded Knee (although some were rounded up in concentration camps), it is still disturbingly common for queer, perceived-to-be-queer, and gender-variant folks to be beat up, raped, and murdered. Japanese Americans were placed in internment camps in the wake of Pearl Harbor. Many Asian countries have been ravaged by war orchestrated or executed by the U.S. and other “first world” nations.

    So I don’t think it’s fair to say that all Native folks have it better than all Asian or queer folks. Clearly, this is dependent on so many other factors, and like you said, it’s something to be discussed.

  11. atlasien wrote:

    I still think calling “Oppression Olympics” is a great way of keeping racial discussion on a rational level.

    There are two ways of calling it, one good, and one bad.

    1) Good call: stopping an intent to silence. when someone derails a discussion by minimizing the experiences of another. We use the “Oppression Olympics” whistle to point out that they’re not listening, and their true intent is to silence the other person because what they’re hearing is making them too uncomfortable.

    One really irritating example is a time when I was talking about the anti-Asian racist abuse I experienced in school. Someone else said that it wasn’t such a big deal… because they had been teased for stuttering in school. The intent was to silence me via a really stupid comparison. It especially irritated me because I’d also had a stuttering problem when I was younger, so I’d really experienced both, and could say quite definitively that the anti-Asian abuse was much, much worse. But if I had been complaining about being teased for stuttering, and someone else had derailed me by saying “let me talk about MY (insert issue) instead because it proves your issue is inconsequential”, I would also be pretty mad.

    2) Bad call: stopping an intent to provide greater context. This is where I think Andrea Smith’s critique is really applicable. I see the dynamic she’s talking about so clearly when it comes to discussions between black people and Asian people and how we often talk past each other. I think Racialicious is one of the best places on the internet for Black/Asian discussions, because the moderators are aware of this negative dynamic and don’t encourage it.

    I have seen some black people say incredibly hurtful and ignorant things about Asians, believing that honorary white status means everything is just peachy keen. When Asians object and point out perpetual foreigner status, sexual objectification and emasculation and so on, in order to provide context, we’re dismissed because we haven’t suffered the same way in the same areas black people have suffered.

    In parallel, I have seen some Asians say incredibly hurtful and ignorant things about black people. Quite frankly, many of us are envious of the fact that white people are scared of black people, but they’re not scared of us. We are also envious of the attention that black people get because of the black/white binary that Smith discusses. But the larger context is that black people face much more institutionalized oppression in the economic and criminal justice system, and we shouldn’t ignore that when we talk about our own issues.

  12. Sarah J wrote:

    I usually use the term “oppression Olympics” when, yes, people are trying to tell me that their oppression is worse than someone else’s and that they deserve extra consideration because of it.

    But as a straight Jewish woman, I can say that my ancestors faced a whole lot of crap, but me, not so much. So while I resist letting people tell me that one form of oppression is worse than another, or that I should be “a woman first” rather than “a Jew first” or vice versa or whatever, I do tend to put others’ experience of oppression before my own.

    I think I’ll have more to say after I read Smith’s whole essay. But I guess I feel that there are clear differences between the oppression of different groups, and within that, differences between the experiences of individuals in those groups. And while it’s not productive to fight over who has it worse, it is important to look at what can be done to make each of those situations right, and understand that it’s not going to be the same thing for everyone.

  13. Celeste wrote:

    @atlasien-I totally feel you on the black-asian Opression olympics thigns and in my younger years I have said some pretty racist stuff about asians and thought it was okay because of the whole “other white meat” status they’re perceived to have. It’s been an area of personal growth to be sure.
    I can’t completely wrap my mind around some asians (my husband included)envy of white people being scared of black people/black men being perceived as cool. It’s the whole everything but the burden thing. I’m sure we’ve all fantasized about picking certain sterotypical attributes from each race into a grab bag and leaving all the stuff we don’t want behind. It doesn’t work that way. You wanna scare white people, be prepared for poilce brutality. You wanna be perceived as safe and smart, then go sign up to be emasculated an often unmarried. You want casinos, well that’ll cost you a genocide and a continent.
    If we actually could play racial muscial chairs, I don’t think most people could fully commit to switching races because there’s always baggage.

  14. Paul wrote:

    I think that we need to discuss the differences in scope because ethnic whites have started to equate their experiences with slavery and genocide. I’ve often heard Irish-Americans disparage blacks by claiming that if Irish could overcome racism, why can’t blacks. I’ve also heard many South Asians, East Asians, and immigrant Africans espouse this worldview.

    We as a culture need to establish that black Americans and Native Peoples suffered a much more destructive for of oppression in order to quell this sort of sentiment.

  15. Feminist Punk! wrote:

    as an Indian Muslim, sometimes I bond better with other Muslims of different races (Arab Americans, Middle Easterns/North Africans, African-American Muslims, etc) than I do with my own fellow Hindus here in the States, because Hindu Americans don’t really face as much racism and discrimination like Muslims (whether you are Arab, Indian, black or Malaysian or whatever) do.

    so, uh, I understand the whole “oppression olympics” argument. Not that I think it’s a great term, but…

  16. talknormal wrote:

    This is a fantastic post–I’m so pleased to finally see folks thinking critically about the “oppression olympics” tag.

    I think atlasien did a great job summarizing the up- and downside to the phrase–yes, its a good concept to invoke when someone wants to make crude, totalizing comparisons, but the phrase can end up providing a rationale for not looking critically at the specific content of different oppressions. As atlasien also already pointed out, Smith’s example of anti-blackness seems especially pertinent here, in that multiculturalsim, while attempting to function as an inclusionary framework, paradoxically runs the risk of actually obscuring a real understanding of the specific mechanisms of white supremacy (in this case, the logic of slavery and the ways in which anti-blackness played a unique role in informing constructions of race in America).

    What I have noticed (and I am curious whether others have felt similarly) is that in progressive coverage of the election, the “oppression olympics” tagline seems to be a special favorite of young, white feminists (often when responding to older feminists such as Steinem or Robin Morgan). I have mixed feelings about this in that yes, obviously its a good thing for feminists to be denouncing the suggestion that women have it “worst.” But on the other hand, I worry that the tagline has also functioned as a way of shutting down potentially more substantive conversations about race and gender. I thought that the identity politics issues raised by the election presented white people who identify as feminists (like me) a unique opportunity to ask ourselves difficult questions about what it means to be a feminist today, what we can learn from the historic exclusions of feminist movements, how we conceive of gendered inequality and oppression in relation to the overlapping frameworks of race, class, nationality, sexuality, etc– but instead of sparking conversations about these things, so many feminists have responded to the Clinton-Obama drama simply by saying “there’s no oppression olympics, ok guys?” and that’s the end of the conversation–and all us white feminists return to our normal programming.

    So we know now that playing the oppression olympics sucks, right? But I’ve been hoping that we could, you know, take it a little further than that. Which, again, is why I’m pretty pleased about this post.

  17. Tree wrote:

    Wow. Really? Correct me if I’m wrong, but when your population becomes a third of the nation in a relatively short period of time and has enough similarities in common with the dominant group to earn a pass, you didn’t particularly do much to overcome racism–except overwhelm your oppressors by sheer number.

    Raise of hands–how many people have had that luxury other than the Irish?

    (Sorry, I know that goes against everything discussed, but in certain cases coming out first place in the oppression olympics is a badge of homogeneity. The Irish tend to wear it very well and America’s hostility toward them ended pretty much at the dawn of the previous century.

    Now, catholics I could get behind. Not an ethnic group, despite Durkheim’s claims, but there is a strong resentment still in a largely protestant world toward people who are viewed as somehow not entirely christian.)

    The main trouble with any manner of labeling is the infamy a word develops. It doesn’t take long for a code word to become loaded. Oppression olympics has too many web discussions behind it, too many choleric ones at that, to be a guaranteed safe use word for describing needless competition between sufferers of oppression.

    Andrea Smith’s commentary is pretty much dead on. (Although all forms of colonization should get the label ‘orientalism’, even if they don’t directly involve Asia or the Middle East. The principles behind the Middle Passage, the ethnocentrism and bigotry, only became more structured and layered as time passed, and as white oppression expanded to blanket regions in Asia, so too did the ideology spread and further develop to avoid its inherent, immoral complications.)
    Maybe there needs to be a hierarchy that deals in chronological stages, and ascribes oppression based on what chronemics the oppressor is thinking in. For Native Americans, we’re often relegated to the 1870’s, when our race was supposedly dying out. For African Americans, who were widely publicized for championing their cause and challenging white authority, the time span is something of the 1950’s-1960’s.
    For anyone lumped in the category ‘Hispanic’, they’re looking at a block of time in the 1950’s when anti-immigrant sentiment ran high and never really lost steam.
    Arab Americans definitely have been stuck with condemnation since the 1970’s, when blank-faced America suddenly realized where we were getting a large amount of our oil.
    Asian-Americans have been praised and criticized and both tie in to Asian-America diaspora and working on the railroads during the later half of the nineteenth century.
    So…these are the eras the oppressor fails to see past, the eras that are glued in the mind of the patriarchy that we’re unable to simply drop in order to speak in regards to the pressing matters of today, today’s racial oppression.
    “It happened so long ago.” Who here hasn’t heard that excuse before?

  18. Kai wrote:

    Thanks, Latoya, I was hoping this subject would come up here at some point. I’ve never used the the expression “oppression olympics” simply because I see it as something of a silly and exhausted cliche. I think there are always far more precise, descriptive, and creative ways to describe a particular rhetorical strategy than falling back on such a generalized catch-all six-syllable clunker of a meme-tag. This usually comes down to exposing erroneous assumptions underlying the logic being asserted and debunking those assumptions in order to dismantle the logic. Of course, this involves the hard work of fresh analysis and fresh formulation in each instance, which many people obviously aren’t willing to do; but to me, that’s kinda the point.

    Though I do love Bint Alshamsa’s Special White Woman certificate. That has been cracking me up ever since she made it.

  19. atlasien wrote:

    Kai, I agree with you in spirit, but sometimes I think memes have to be fought with other memes.

    I was involved in a discussion recently trying to refute a “what about us poor suffering white guys hurt by affirmative action” argument. The person was regurgitating the standard cliches about how minorities were playing “victim politics” in order to get those lovely special benefits.

    I tried to point out that in this case, the accuser is accusing others of what they themselves hold the greatest guilt for. The “what about us white guys” presumes that, yes, experiencing oppression means you get a special medal, and they want a medal too, so they’re going to say they’re oppressed too. Hence… Oppression Olympics!

    Of course, I don’t know how successful I was. But on the internet you’re not just arguing with one person, you’re putting it out there for the much larger audience of people who lurk, and think, but won’t necessarily respond.

    Some people are going to be best persuaded by nuanced arguments. Some people need short sharp sentences. Some people are never going to be convinced at all, of course.

  20. Yvette wrote:

    I admit to always being intrigued by the term “oppression Olympics.” In this site’s comment moderation policy is this statement:

    Let’s avoid oppression olympics please. I’m not saying it’s never something to be discussed, but generally speaking, bickering over who has it worse off, or who’s more racist, is really kind of useless.

    There are several points about such a statement that points, I think, to some folks’ dissatisfaction with the term:

    “Bickering”–Pretty a value-laden word, IMO. What counts as “bickering” as opposed to, say, “disagreement”?

    “..who has it worse off..”–Is this to mean that no one has it “worse off”? I think some accusations of “playing the oppression Olympics” comes off as a bizarre sort of relativism where all bets are equal. If it depends on what the “it” is, then why shouldn’t further discussion of context, particulars, and other such things be appropriate topics of discussion?

    “…is really kind of useless”–”Useless” for whom? Who gets to decide? At what point in the conversation (or “bickering”) do we conclude that we’ve reached a point of diminishing returns?

    In general, I have seen the use of this–IMO–once useful term fall into what I have discussed on my own blog as an “anti-epithet”–like accusations that someone bringing up race is “playing the race card.” It often serves to cut off conversation and de-legitimize people’s viewpoints rather than in exploring real similarities and differences in people’s/groups’ experiences.

  21. Kai wrote:

    Atlasien, yeah I hear you. It’s true that sometimes it makes the most sense to fight memes with other memes, especially in online communication. So I’m not going to take anyone to task for employing the phrase “oppression olympics” because I do see the point and I generally agree with the argument being made. Maybe this just means I’m enough of a nerd to constantly try to come up with freshly esoteric formulations such as, “These two forms of oppression cannot be compared in this manner because each operates along a different dimensional axis, which makes the comparative grid you’ve implicitly asserted between the two invalid.” Hehe. Okay, maybe the cliche is the way to go after all. ;-)

  22. donna darko wrote:

    Latoya,

    This whole campaign has been oppression olympics with the MSM and blogs claiming race trumps gender. Racism is covered by the MSM and blogs so those of us covering sexism don’t have to focus on it. There has been a hundred times more rationalization from the Obama side whether it’s not criticizing him and using double standards against Clinton.

    There are very few bloggers covering sexism and since the racism is covered by EVERYONE, we don’t need to focus on it.

    Can’t you see the bias and double standards? You’re perpetuating bias and double standards right here.

  23. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Donna -

    Your argument is bullshit.

    And I am dedicating a whole post to it. Because this has got to fucking stop.

  24. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    ::TCS nods thoughtfully after reading Smith’s essay, the posts, and the comments::

    @ atlasien–friend, you are my new heroine.:-D I love your analysis on why, even though it may be cliche (sorry, Kai! All love…), it still has a usefulness (sorry, Yvette! Again, all love…) in succinctly describing the internecine arguments of which marginalized group has had–and still-has–it worse under The Man and, therefore, whose oppression should head the anti-Man agenda and be dealt with first. “Oppression Olympics,” IMO, also captures the utter ridiculousness of the *argument itself,* not the very real and myriad ways various marginalized groups and people in those groups are dismissed, destroyed, denigrated, co-opted, appropriated, and silenced–and how members of the marginalized groups do it to each other.

    For me, Smith’s Three Pillars of White Supremacy and Sudy’s breakdown of Schussler Fiorenza’s kyriarchy (my head is *still* wrapping itself around the brilliance of it!) are great twin counterarguments when the OO comes up–as well as great PoC-based coalition-building principles and a check-and-balance system within those coalitions.

    So far, that’s where my head is at…still thinking about it, though.

  25. shah8 wrote:

    You know, the stupidity of Donna’s comment just knocked my thoughts out of my head…

    Now…where was I?

    Ah, yes, memes.

    I don’t believe we should counter with other memes. I believe we should know and expect others to know meme-fu. That is, everyone should have a basic idea for being able to pick out underlying assumptions and *deconstruct* memes. Clarify, not clutter. Failing that, use minimal force, direct focus, and contextualization to take the piss out of a meme.

  26. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ shah8–”Meme…fu?” Did you write, “meme-fu?”

    ::cringes::

    I almost didn’t read the rest of your comment because I was so busy wrinkling my face at that word….

  27. Kua wrote:

    I think the term oppression olympics is useful shorthand for the sort of squabbling over crumbs at the bottom that leaves everyone at the top still in charge. But then, I also think the Olympic games are a fun, propagandistic mask for all sorts of evils.

    My new concept, recently acquired via the blog A Womyn’s Ecdysis, is kyriarchy. Schussler Fiorenza coined/popularized the term to refer to complex structures of oppression. Patriarchy posits a simple up-down model, and ignores discrimination against non-whites, queers, people with disabilities, et al. Kyriarchy is a model of overlapping sexism, racism, ablism, etc. It explains why we end up attacking each other and belittling other forms of oppression, and why that behavior reinforces the position of the men at the top and stifles change. I think that’s what a lot of posters are trying to get at here, so check it out…

    http://myecdysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/accepting-kyriarchy-not-apologies.html

  28. Kua wrote:

    Oops, while I was writing that, The Cruel Secretary made the same point.

  29. J wrote:

    What a great discussion! I really like the phrase, Oppression Olympics, which I define as when someone makes the claim that one form of oppression is worse than another. When I say that someone is engaging in the oppression olympics, I don’t say it to contest their material claim that one group has it worse than another, but rather to challenge the idea that there is a totem pole of discrimination.

    Not only does such a framework simplify the discussion, it completely turns it on its head. Taking Atlasien’s (great) point about how the oppression olympics leads to tit for tat comparisons, the discussion moves from being about the structural forces of oppression and becomes about the individual. Comparing your stuttering problem to anti asian racism is absurd on its face, but more importantly, its also a completely invalid, apples to oranges comparison. All historical and social context has been stripped away, AND as Atlasien pointed out, it serves to further marginalize and dismiss minority voices.

  30. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Kua–all love, friend.:-D

  31. shah8 wrote:

    *Cruel Secretary*
    Is it bad because it sounds wierd?

    Or because it’s stereotypical?

    I was used it because -fu seems a useful word addition because it can be used like -ology, but instead of the study of, it would be the practice of. Of course, hearing it used that way in a bunch of contexts (mostly in jokes and snark) also inclined me to do it that way.

  32. Slush wrote:

    I think Black Canseco was onto something in saying that the term has a dangerous effect of belittling or degrading the reality of social oppression by making it like some kind of game. Many folks have pointed out that it refers to a style of argument that is fruitless and combative, and is not a reference to the underlying socio-political dynamics themselves. But I think that’s the way deeper thinking progressives use the term, but meanwhile it has a much broader circulation. I think bloggers not on Racialicious use “oppression olympics” much more in the way that Black Canseco was talking about. Which doesn’t necessarily mean it should be purged from anyone’s vocabulary or anything like that, but it’s something to consider.

    And Dan - great points. Victimhood status occupies this funny, crazy complicated place in our society where it’s at once disparaged, blameworthy, and irresponsible, yet also sought after, competed for, and associated with entitlements and rights to be enforced. I can’t really make sense of it.

  33. Tom wrote:

    “Triage” might be a more appropriate metaphor. It acknowledges that there are problems to go around, but perhaps only certain of those can be addressed with the what’s at hand.

    And rhetorically, it wouldn’t minimize legitimate greivances of a given group.

  34. jvansteppes wrote:

    1. I’ve always thought the term revealed the ridiculousness of the practice of competing over which oppression is worse and the way it IS turned into a game when people thoughtlessly pit oppressions against each other [it also makes no space for people who aren’t easily compartmentalized] Another term we use at least up here in Canada is ‘oppression sweepstakes’ though that one I’m more leery of because some people get into ’spin the wheel’ metaphors that don’t make sense to me.

    2. I’m curious as to who made the graphic, which is ironic because it also provides the model of who we are supposed to think is guiltiest of competing, thus trivializing other people’s hardships. The assumption that one group is ‘the worst’ mirrors the problem itself and homogenizes groups. And who is to decide who is worse? Personally, living in both gay communities and feminist communities [both dominated by white folks of course], I think a lot of white gay people [especially men] are very keen to play oppression olympics too, though I won’t pretend I can measure who is ‘the worst’. Recent white women blogger scandals are probably the reason for the choice but it would be a mistake to suggest that this problem is limited to white women.
    3. People need to stop trying to compare race, gender, sexuality and gender identity experiences, period. Every group faces unique forms of getting fucked over by power that are specific to class and context.

  35. Winn wrote:

    talknormal and Yvette summarized my discomfort with the phrase “oppression olympics” very well. Perhaps as the phrase has been appropriated by those outside of communities working for the betterment of marginalized groups, it has taken on the patina of phrases like “multicultural”, “politically correct”, “victim politics”, “identity politics”, and my personal (un)favorite, “the race card”, used to marginalize and invalidate what may be legitmate arguments about the myriad ways patriarchy and white supremacy may have had and continue to have varying impacts on disparate groups.

    Of course, some may ask, does that matter? Who cares “who has it worse”, and is that even possible to quantify, as comments above have suggested? I don’t know, but I would argue that the rhetoric surrounding the current presidential campaign suggests that we have not reached that place where the “your blues ain’t like mine” argument no longer matters. Words and phrases that seem benign, apt or simply precise and encompassing can easily be appropriated and transformed into weapons, and the inherent vulnerability of “oppression olympics” to that kind of manipulation is perhaps what has always rubbed me the wrong way.

  36. Celeste wrote:

    I like “triage”

  37. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ shah8–”Meme-fu” is, on the face of it, quite clever and cute, considering your definition of it. But I do cringe at the stererotype attached to -fu, yeah…

    …or, at this point, has the suffix, like hip-hop, shed the stereotype and spread beyond the borders of its origin?

  38. Black Canseco wrote:

    Didn’t realize this would be a post–would’ve showed up earlier, I guess.

    The problem with the phrase is that it seems to have replaced “race card”, or at least runs neck and neck with it for marginalizing discussions on color. For example: Whenever it comes to women of color and feminism, someone throws out “opression olympics” as if the concerns of WOCs are less feminist than mainstream feminism.

    Not sure what else to say beyond, people will use whatever handle they believe in using to clarify their views/positions.

  39. NancyP wrote:

    The problem with “OO” is that it is cliched and thus a thought-inhibiting phrase. See George Orwell, Politics and the English Language.

    People get into “OO” - land when they try for soundbites, generalizations, without considering life experiences of actual people. Sometimes the fault is with the careless writer, sometimes with the careless reader. I plead guilty to both charges, on occasion.

    I have been seen as racist when I talk about systemic sexism (that hasn’t happened here). I once got trounced for a short statement that “sexism was likely the first -ism”, without further explication. Careless writing on my part, corrected in next post by explaining that “first” meant temporally first, not “worst”, and that I figured that low-density, low-mobility populations such as stone age humans probably didn’t have too many chances to see groups of humans with markedly different appearance, but they could sort their own social group by gender.

    I have been told by some POC (not here) that I am trivializing racism when I say that worldwide, probably sexism has more impact, on personal levels, than flat racism, which may operate at a distance (IMF, World Bank policies towards developing countries), but is not perceived quite as clearly. Women with more power in the family are more able to educate the next generation and more able to avoid HIV/AIDS. Of course, more condoms and more medicines would have been made available if the US hadn’t played politics on “unimportant” (because non-white) SubSaharan and Asian developing countries’ assistance packages. (Naturally, this has f*ck-all to say about power issues within the US. The point was to point out one “ground up” locally based, locally administered strategy for improving life in developing countries).

    I have also been slammed (not here) for trivializing the Civil Rights movement when I have brought up the Loving v Virginia SCOTUS case (RIP, Mrs. Loving, reunited with your husband) as a predecessor in the current attempt to extend marriage rights to LGBTs. For some reason, this was taken as claiming that LGBTs were as discriminated against as blacks, not as an attempt to expand one specific right to a new situation. Bad writing on my part? Bad reading or over-projection on the reader’s part.

    So the trick is to get people to read past the first sentence.

  40. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Black Canseco–I think I’m learning Latoya-speak. When she said to table the conversation until tomorrow ’cause she reading something pertaining to the discussion, it means, “I’m writing a follow-up post, everyone.”:-D

  41. Black Canseco wrote:

    Not only is the goal to get people “past the first sentence”, but the goal is to also hear their side of things.

    When we have a world population that’s over 80% People of Color, combined with over 70% of the women in the world being ethnic women of color I can see how someone would be annoyed by a seemingly blanket statement that sexism is a bigger issues than race. The only way to make that statement is to discount the disparities between women of of color and white women.

    as for the Civil Rights issue; i think it’s not only about the first sentence but there’s a deep rooted sense of co-option in the minds of African Americans regarding non-ethnic groups saying their struggles, desires are grounds enough to co-opt something that has been so central and germaine to our humanity.

    For all of James Baldwin’s (my fave writer) frustration with mainstream black churches and heteros, he was never forced to the back of the bus or kicked out of anywhere for being gay. It was being black that was always the biggest barrier in recognizing his humanity and brilliance as writer.

    regardless of how people may feel and about the validity of the disagreement it’s pretty genuine and rooted in enough pain, emotion, etc. that it shouldn’t be dismissed as simple misunderstandings, OO or race card playing, etc.

  42. Black Canseco wrote:

    creul Secretary,

    Yeah i finally figured that out. i’m slow sometimes.

  43. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Black Canseco–hey, it took me a minute, too, so don’t feel bad, friend.:-)

    I do see where you’re coming from with your critique of “oppression olympics” but, like you said, “people will use whatever handle they believe in using to clarify their views/positions.” So, we’re still agreeing to disagree on this one…all love from here.

  44. jvansteppes wrote:

    I totally agree with you Black Canseco that non-ethnic groups using civil rights terms [although disability rights activists use the phrase as well but I don’t feel qualified to comment on that] is messed up. Honestly I think gays do it because they/we don’t have histories to link to; we aren’t as a whole comparable to virtually anyone and our most privileged and shortsighted reps think rather superficially so they grasp at comparisons to other movements as a way of trying to legitimate the idea of gay rights. The inability of wealthier white gays to see their gentrifying effects on poorer racialized neighborhoods is especially distressing [for a good insight, watch the movie ‘Flag Wars’]

    On the James Baldwin note however I do get a sense that you’re tearing him in two. [And the fact that literature is one of the domain queers are seen to naturally belong to taints that comparison. Writers aren’t treated to the homophobia that football players are, for example]

    It could be countered that there are also qpoc who would say that being gay was harder/just as hard for them than being part of a racially oppressed community. But it’s a dead end. I had a friend once who got asked this question all the time. He described it to me as impossible to compare because on the one hand, his status as Native was visible and he constantly felt racism , but on the other hand his immediate family in particular was really homophobic. While he could talk to them about racism he didn’t have anyone close to him to grow a positive queer identity with and that isolation was extremely hard to deal with and that was hard to take considering he’d had Native role models and people to share community with forever. He noted that both his Native friends and his non-Native gay friends asked him this question and he was disappointed with all of them.
    A Black transsexual friend who grew up relatively poor told me that he rarely thought about race because most discrimination he faced growing up was for being transsexual, or at least that was the first thing people noticed about him. And there’s probably other trans poc who would say for them it was the other way around etc.
    The bottom line is that both oppressions are different and our goals shouldn’t be to compete but to challenge this shit. I’m not just pissed off at Clinton’s supporters for trying to say sexism is worse, I’m mad at Clinton herself and her staff for not showing any solidarity with Obama in the face of Islamophobia etc. I have yet to see someone take her to task on not pointing out that being Muslim is not a bad thing! This should be a greater scandal. People of all kinds should be outraged.

  45. TonyFig. wrote:

    “Oppresion Olympics”. It goes to show you how desperate some people are to wish away the pernicious and lingering effects of racism while claiming for themselves the mantle of “open mindedness”.

    People who use this term against people of color are like those people who knowing they owe you money avoid you, and when finally confronted try to lay a guilt trip on you because you’re wanting what’s yours, nothing more nor less.

  46. thesciencegirl wrote:

    Rob said,
    “Re “since tribes now have gaming, Native peoples are not longer ‘oppressed’”: Since a few tribes have become rich from gaming, you could argue that those few tribes are no longer oppressed.”

    I would just like to point out that this is really faulty logic. Even if tribal leadership has made significant money from casinos, that does not necessarily translate to relief from oppression for the entire tribe. The current social and economic ramifications of oppression of NAs is not a problem easily solved by throwing a little money at it. Nor does it alleviate prejudice, discrimination, or the legacy of institutional racism. Just sayin’.

    As for the term Oppression Olympics, I have only recently heard the term (since I began reading blogs like this online) but I actually likeit, at least in the context that I’ve heard it. As Atlasien said above, the term is often used to stop someone from silencing others. I don’t see the point of trying to directly compare the oppression or experiences of different groups; it doesn’t help either group advance themselves and it only serves to further distance people who may very well have common goals.

    I mentioned in another comment this week that my best friend from college is Jewish, and we would often talk about our experiences as members of minority groups, and how common some of our experiences are. But I would often be startled and dismayed when she would start a conversation like this, “Today someone did *insert horrifying anti-semetic thing* and I was really upset. I know it doesn’t compare in any way to what you experience, and it’s not as bad as racism agaainst blacks, etc. but it still upsets me.” I always told her that she didn’t have to put a qualifier on her experience. It doesn’t matter how it compares to mine; we are there to support each other and not to compete. But I think we’d both heard enough Slavery vs. the Holocaust discussions to know that there is a ridiculous trend of oppressed groups competing with each other over who has it worst instead off working together. Of course, white supremacy only enhances this, but pitting oppresed groups against each other. Consider the phrase “model minority,” which is employed for this very reason. I think people often engage in this so-called “oppression olympics” in direct response to this phenomenon. E.g. Someone says, “why can’t blacks just pull themselves up by their bootstraps like Jews did?” And then the black person who’s offended says, “Well, Jews didn’t have hundreds of years of enslavement and oppression in the U.S.” and the the response is “Yeah, but the Holocaust was just as bad.” And then you’ve started the vicious cycle. If the term “oppression olympics” is not acceptable, how else do we address and shoot down this kind of counterproductive comparative talk?

    I would also point out that one major issue I have with attempts to compare different isms is that it ignores people who experiences both. I am often irritated by arguments over sexism vs. racism. I experience both, so what good does it do me to try and ferret out which one oppresses me more?

  47. NancyP wrote:

    Effects on macro and micro levels vary according to ethnicity and class and gender and the local matrix.

    A developing country might be poor in part because of the aftereffects of colonialism or the inappropriate advice given by IMF/World Bank. Clearly most food crises are due to mismanagement encouraged by the foreign “experts”, many or most of whom are subconsciously racist.

    A woman in a village might not see any white American/ European “experts”, and not be made to feel inferior on account of race. She may be powerless to make her husband use a condom or stop her husband from drinking away school funds for the selected child (usually male), and she may think that getting beaten is just woman’s lot. Sexism plays a larger part in her relationships than racism, which operates here at the macro level only. Any maneuvers that make wives a little more powerful are welcomed by the women themselves - eg. making a little hard cash by becoming the village “cell phone lady” (public phone booth equivalent) - and eventually increases female literacy rate.

    A developed world WOC with a good husband is likely to consider race the overwhelmingly important factor in her life. One that gets seriously beat on by husband or S.O. might have a hard time deciding which is worse, getting beat on by this guy who thinks he owns her, or dealing with thousand-cuts racism.

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