Mocking a Culture, Mocking a Friend

by Guest Contributor Aaminah Hernández, originally published at Writeous Sister Speaks

I was approached by Latoya Peterson, editor for Racialicious, to write something about this piece at Jezebel. I want to preface this with three disclaimers:

1) I don’t normally read Jezebel. I’m not faulting those who do, it just doesn’t appeal to me and I’ve got more than enough good reading to keep me busy.

2) The following response to this post will not be even-handed. Because reading the piece at Jezebel made me literally physically ill. Do I jest? No… I read it while in the office and had to leave to go to the restroom to puke. That was yesterday. After re-reading it and thinking about it overnight, I am just now sitting down on Friday to write something about it. And I know right now this will not be written in one sitting because I cannot stomach it all in one go.

    2a) My response will probably be considered as biased simply because I am a Muslim. Yes, I am. And one who actually wears that face veil on a daily basis that Ms. Sarah has taken on momentarily. I am not, however, an expert of any sort on Yemen. I have never been to Yemen, I do not have friends that are currently living in Yemen, and although I know in-a-round-about-way a SunniPath Shaykh in Yemen, I cannot speak directly to how Islam is practiced by the average Yemeni person.

3) I did not read through all the comments. I just couldn’t. Why subject myself to that? I am sure there were some good comments left as well, but since I didn’t read through them all I will not be addressing in depth the comment section to the post, but replying to the post itself. I will however reference at times information about the post that I did glean from the comments I did read (Example: that the post is actually an IM conversation and that somehow accounts for the irreverent and light-hearted nature of the discussion. Yeah, more on that in a bit.)

The first thing you will, of course, notice is the title of the “article”: Sarah Left Women’s Magazine to Try and Learn “Why They Hate Us”. She Could Use a Drink.

To be fair, you know what you are about to get into with a title like that. As far as journalism goes, it’s even a good title, because it wraps up the lunacy of the interview all in two succinct sentences. It does however put controversy front and center.

So, Sarah Wolff left her Fashion Editor job at Good Housekeeping in NYC to go on a jaunt around the Arab world after 9-11. In fact, many people became interested in learning a bit about Islam and Arabs after 9-11, but also a good number decided that this was a great money making opportunity: play on the fears caused by the 9-11 (and other) attacks, call yourself an expert, and watch the cash roll in. Because those of us who are actually believing Muslims or Arab, Iranian, and otherwise related to the Middle East have no business being asked to talk about what we believe. The world wants to hear it from white Americans with no ties whatsoever to the countries, cultures and religions of the region.

Now, I’m not saying Sarah is money-grubbing per se. At least she took some time to learn some Arabic and went to school to become a bona fide journalist. Currently she lives in Yemen and works for the Yemen Times newspaper. But this is a huge change from being a New York fashion editor, so it would be understandable to ask why. Her answer in this “interview” is not very compelling.

“I worked as a fashion editor in NYC for about 6 years and when 9/11 happened, I started wondering about Islam and why people hated the U.S. so much – I was not into interna’nl politics at ALL at that time…”

And yet now, 5 years later she is put forth by Jezebel as if she is an expert on Islam and international politics. And since living in Yemen since January of this year, she is now also an expert on Yemeni men, culture, and mores.

“Actually, many MANY people think that there will be a civil war here soon. It is kind of terrorism’s last frontier…”

“Well, it’s kind of a black hole. People don’t know a lot about it and it’s poor as all hell.”

“Some of the not so great ways include the BEYOND-limited rights of women here. I am talking about no cell phone talking in the street, okay, no TALKING in the street period for women… no laughing for women. No laughing! Yo(u) have to wear full-body coverage at all times…”

Now, in comments later it was mentioned that this superficial coverage of issues was due to the medium being used for the interview: Instant Messaging.

The thing is, IM isn’t really the best way to conduct an interview for that reason, so I imagine it wasn’t originally intended to be posted in full. If there was intention to post the conversation on-line, some effort could have been made to handle things in a more professional tone, or the interview could have been conducted a different way. The way questions are asked certainly sets the tone for the answers, and it’s safe to assume either this conversation wasn’t supposed to see the light of day, or it was intended to be this offensive.

As it turns out, Sarah herself has come out and said that she had absolutely never expected this conversation to be published. She wrote on her personal blog about her feelings on this, but has since taken her blog private, as she had not intended it to ever be in the spotlight (her blog is for friends and family). She was merely venting to an American friend, in a private, light-hearted conversation. She says her feelings of frustration at that moment were accentuated and the conversation was short so she didn’t get an opportunity to talk about how much she loves Yemen. She had visited there before she took the job at the Yemen Times and went back for the job because she saw more positive than negative and wanted to be there.

“I just want people to know that the whole reason I came back after visiting Yemen the first time is that the people and the country itself totally charmed, welcomed and engaged me. Sometimes it’s hard living in a culture that isn’t your own for an extended period, and my first reaction was to bitch (note to self: WRONG reaction!) and I didn’t think to talk about all the things I love here, like Yemeni hospitality, the amount of interest citizens take in the political process, the great friends – foreign and Yemeni – I have made here and the amazing opportunity to work with a respected independent newspaper. Not that it is an excuse (although it sure does sound like one, doesn’t it?), but I was just answering questions in the same vein as they were asked to me.”

“Hopefully those of you who were offended or upset will know that I am deeply regretful that I sounded like such an a-hole. In summary: I love living here.”

I find myself more easily able to excuse a woman who admits that she was wrong and apologizes for it (that certainly is a rare quality amongst white bloggers lately). She has gone further and talked about the positives of Yemen life. The fact is that I reserve most of my anger over this piece for Jezebel and Moe, the editor/”friend” who conducted and then posted the conversation.

Questions:

” Do you chew qat? I’ve always wanted to chew that.”

“So, back to you. Urine is an ever present smell?”

“No talking on the street, no laughing… what if you just went into the middle of the street and laid a really loud fart?”

“FOR NEXT TIME. 1. Getting laid in Yemen 2. Islam – can it be saved? 3. Guantanamo – what’s it like. oh and 4. Fashion magazines – can you get them blown up by Al Qaeda?”

The seriousness of such an interview is rightly in question. The thing is, it’s sad that this is how people relax and chat with their friends. Skimming the surface. Asking someone to provide them details about something they don’t really know anything about. Looking askance at a country and culture without digging at all into whether you are even interpreting things correctly. Questionning if a spiritual tradition can “be saved”.

It’s downright bad journalism to post such a private and off-the-cuff sounding interview for other people’s entertainment or education. Sarah isn’t qualified to talk in great depth about Yemen after living there for a few months. She can only share her own experiences, which are greatly colored by why she is there, her imperfect grasp of the language, and her American sensibilities. The interviewer doesn’t begin to know where to start asking intelligent or probing questions that would be within Sarah’s scope of knowledge, so she takes a lighthearted-let’s-laugh-together-at-the-backwards-natives approach.

It is normal when chatting with a friend to vent about difficulties one faces. I sometimes vent with Muslim friends about other Muslim things. That absolutely doesn’t mean I am ready to throw away my faith nor that I hate other Muslims. I vent about my job all the time with friends, but that doesn’t mean that it is all negative. Mothers vent about their children’s antics, friends vent about each other, we vent about our neighbors, organizations we are involved with, etc. It’s a normal American past-time. Venting should not be misconstrued as the complete and accurate opinion about something, however. There is a difference between missing some of the the things one is accustomed to and actually hating the fact that one’s life is so different now. So I can understand Sarah. I really can. I can’t however understand Moe publishing it and including the commentary she chose to highlight.

The saddest thing is that Moe seems surprised that anyone would take offense to this portrayal of Yemen as a urine-smelling-poorer-than-poor-oppressed-women society. In her introduction to the interview, Moe points to the recent case of an 8-year-old wife who has just won a divorce against her abusive husband but makes it sound like this is routine in the culture. She then points to how “Al Qaeda is like the Beatles”, “virginity is preserved through butt sex” (which is a whole other topic of erroneous reference), and “they’ve been trying to blow up foreigners lately”.

Deplorable as the 8-year-old wife situation is, it is not necessarily the everyday norm in Yemen. While Al Qaeda may have some support, it is doubtful that the whole country is just a hotbed of terrorist activity supported by the common people. Anal sex is actually forbidden in Islam (and does not preserve virginity, but why even mention that in regards to Yemen when it is so common in the U.S. that even Queen Latifah felt compelled to speak up to young girls about the dangers of this activity?). And goodness, could we please just STOP discussing how women choose to dress in accordance with their beliefs in modesty already?

So, while I can forgive Sarah’s response, I can’t forgive Jezebel’s tacky exploitation of their friend in order to get readers and incite controversy. Of the comments I did read, there were an overwhelming number of them that were the typical negative and ignorant variety. This conversation only perpetuated many of the myths and stereotypes that people already hold about the Middle East as a whole. It didn’t open up conversation to educate people to look past the stereotypes, or to question their previous limited knowledge of the region. It just reinforced the negativity. And some commentors who expressed concern or disgust had comments moderated, deleted, or never published, and at least one was banned.

It’s not surprising. Jezebel is hardly known for it’s sensitivity to traditional spiritual, feminist, or women of color issues. It is, afterall, a pretty “white” and irreverent blog. The question is: How many times can you be insulted before you stop reading? How many times can you ask them to include more women of color voices, so that coverage might be a little more balanced, before you realize they don’t want to do so. People can only claim that it is “hard” to find good WoC writers, and “hard” to show a variety of viewpoints for so long before it should occur to us that they aren’t willing to try. I cannot imagine why anyone would take Jezebel seriously or look to them to provide intelligent discussion on any matter. Which is why I will now go back to my previous “don’t bother to read that” mode.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Still Recovering… More Feminism and Race & some books « Words From The Center, Words From The Edge on 23 Apr 2008 at 2:08 pm

    [...] a guest contributor over at Racialicious writes Mocking a Culture, Mocking a Friend a nuanced and in depth response to a Jezebel post that boggles the mind. I’m not a regular [...]

  2. Journalist slams Mozzie School, Congresswoman speaks out « Izzy Mo’s Blog on 13 May 2008 at 8:50 pm

    [...] person who had good intentions and thought that her opinions would be expressed truthfully.  (Oh, Aaminah, great niqaab’ed one, you do rock!)  Then again, did you really think they were going for the truth [...]

Comments

  1. Jill wrote:

    “And goodness, could we please just STOP discussing how women choose to dress in accordance with their beliefs in modesty already?”

    I have absolutely no problem with women choosing to dress or act a certain way. That’s their personal choice and it’s fine. However, the problem comes when the government puts laws into place enforcing such “modesty” in dress and behavior.

  2. Erica wrote:

    Well, if it helps balance your bias as mentioned in 2a: I was also disgusted reading that “interview” and I’m not Muslim. I had a bad feeling after the introductory paragraph and it went downhill from there. I didn’t even read the last 1/3 of it. Pointing and laughing at different cultures gets old really fast, especially when you’re wrong about your theories.

    From one of the questions: “I have no concept of Yemen’s history.” Well, color me shocked! I am hardly an expert on Yemen either, but if I’m going to try to learn, qat is not the first thing I’m going to be asking about. The interviewer came of as an arrogant, biased, ignorant jerk, which reflected badly on his interviewee as a result. And the fact that he never mentioned he might publish this anywhere is just massively unprofessional.

    I’ve personally never taken Jezebel very seriously and this is just reinforcing that decision.

  3. Celeste wrote:

    That conversation should never have been posted as a legitimate interview, especially without getting Sarah’s permission first.

  4. Bixby wrote:

    Jezebel drives me up the wall. Mainly because the writers have this “holier than thou” complex and insist on projecting it onto their comments and, quite frankly, are quite hypocritical about it. Plus, it seems as though people on that site have issues with dissent to the point that they need to tattle to the comment moderator. Seriously. I have commenting privileges and I think it’s only a matter of time before I get kicked off from telling them off.

  5. Feminist Punk! wrote:

    F–k Jezebel. Yes, I do read it everyday for good articles on women’s issues, but damn, the website does a pretty good job alienating non-white women (like me).

    I’ll never forgive Jezebel for that “Asian Woman Fetish” article thing that they wrote last year…

  6. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Good article. I hadnt even heard about the article until I read it here. It would seem that she hasnt been in Yemen long enough to write anything more than broad and sweeping racial and religious generalisations.

    My wife’s father’s family is originally from Yemen. They moved to Saudi Arabia about 100 years ago after one of the many wars that have taken place there.

    The idea that any civil war would be because of AQ there is a laugh. Almost half of the country are Shi’a who HATE AQ and their Sunni radicals. The most recent wars in the area have been over politics, nationalists fighting socialists, all back by powers outside of Yemen.

    You can hardly say AQ is like the Beattles in Yemen when some 50% of Yemenis would automatically HATE AQ. These statements by her show a profound ignorance of Yemen and lets us know she can only grasp the most base stereotypes of the country which often turn out to be SO wrong.

    As to all women having to be covered everywhere, that just isnt true. You cannot compare the way things run in places like Aden and Sanaa with how they are in places like Harad and al Hazm.

    Sounds to me like she has spent a lot of time on the internet from her redoubt in Sanaa or Aden, keeping the door locked against the “savages outside”. She needs to get out a bit more.

    Why would anyone want to read about her and Yemen when there are more interesting and more knowledgeable articles out there from Westerners who have actually spent some time in the country and know something about it.

    Her time in Yemen is a waste to herself and to her readers. Time for her to go back home!

  7. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    “The question is: How many times can you be insulted before you stop reading? How many times can you ask them to include more women of color voices, so that coverage might be a little more balanced, before you realize they don’t want to do so. People can only claim that it is “hard” to find good WoC writers, and “hard” to show a variety of viewpoints for so long before it should occur to us that they aren’t willing to try.”

    True that, Aaminah.

  8. Feminist Punk! wrote:

    Jezebel has just published an article criticizing the “Abortion Man” video today. So I guess, they have just redeemed themselves.

  9. Jeff Behrens wrote:

    “I find myself more easily able to excuse a woman who admits that she was wrong and apologizes for it (that certainly is a rare quality amongst white bloggers lately).

    Whoa, where’d THAT bullshit snipe come from? I didn’t realize self-righteousness in the blogosphere was a race thing.

  10. Watchdog wrote:

    I read Jezebel and the unfortunate comments to depress myself–the readership is supposed to comprise liberal, educated, urbane, post-modern (or, um, post-SATC) feminists, and yet so many see nothing wrong with ignorant and racist remarks with respect to certain racial and ethnic groups (e.g. this post and the post referenced by Comment #5). What is frightening is that I personally have encountered countless people like this in NYC (and elsewhere), and now find myself constantly questioning the extent of the deep-rooted prejudices and stupidity of my (white) colleagues, friends and acquaintances, and what their hipster-speak is really saying. I fear that Moe is representative of the late 20-something everywoman (also usually white, but I am really referring to my personal experiences) in NYC, and that the best case scenario is that she does not apply her ethnographical knowledge to her personal friends/acquaintances of color. As for my view of Moe, I find myself going to my bad place–she is just another one of these liberal, educated, post-modern (or, um, post-SATC) feminists who is really just a needy, insecure girl with low self-esteem for whom “getting laid” is major validation of her self-worth (seriously, she talks about getting laid in every other post).

    And this last comment is why Jezebel sucks, and why I suck for letting it get to me.

  11. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Jeff–I didn’t take Aaminah’s statement as a self-righteous snipe but as a situation that has been playing itself out lately.

    By chance, Aaminah, are you referring to the fallout surrounding BrownfemiPower and Amanda Marcotte?

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/10/this-has-not-been-a-good-week-for-woman-of-color-blogging/

    http://www.racialicious.com/2008/04/20/long-form-links-2008-04-20/

  12. UmmZaid wrote:

    @Jeff: Aaminah was referring to a big ol’ two week debacle that occurred b/t White and non-White feminist bloggers that got pretty darn ugly. I personally was so disgusted by the way non-White bloggers were talked to and about that I’ve crossed off several of those “prominent feminist bloggers” from my “occasional reads list.” I believe (I’m not sure) that Racialicious had a post about this; it certainly was everywhere else I seemed to look the past few weeks.

    @Jill: You kinda just reinforced Aaminah’s (and pretty much any Muslim’s) statement right there. When it comes to the way we dress, there’s always a “but” from other people. Our way of life always has to be qualified by a statement about countries or people who enforce rules about dress via the legal system as if all Muslims are responsible for and answerable for anything that goes on with other Muslims. You might not think so, you might not realize it, but that’s what you just did. Aren’t we allowed to say we’re a little sick of it? (hey, wait… don’t most municipalities in the United States have rules about “indecent exposure?”)

  13. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    UmmZaid –

    I’ve posted links, but no definitive post. I was *hoping* that by increasing awareness and coverage on the actual issues bfp was trying to address – like media justice vs. media reform, feminism and woc – we could avoid being sucked into a tit for tat style problem. I have read all (and I mean ALL) of the perspectives posted on the subject that linked back to someone.

    But things are progressing faster than I can write.

    So there is no post from us as of yet, but there will be a post about some of the major issues playing out from me soon.

    (By the way – your fake email address made me laugh. We don’t spam, but I am always amused at the creative things people put in the email field…)

  14. Lauren O wrote:

    I’ve called bullshit on Jezebel on my blog before. It’s really just subpar reading in pretty much every conceivable way. I’m sorry that this particular interview wriggled out of the darkness to make you feel ill. I know the feeling; shit on Jezebel makes me angry and nauseated almost every time I read it.

  15. Jeff Behrens wrote:

    Hey all, thanks for the clarification. I hadn’t been following the exchange she was referring to.

    Oh and “Cruel Secretary,” I didnt mean to imply that Aaminah herself was being self-righteous, just expressing irritation at what seemed to be an out-of-left-field generalized comment on white bloggers / white people.

    Sorry to react so harshly — I think part of it was that I thought this post was really great and then that one thing seemed to come out of nowhere. Didn’t realize there was a context for it.

  16. Abu Sinan wrote:

    Women should have the right to dress however they want without others having anything to say about it.

    As a Muslim I feel it is wrong for governments, groups or anyone else to get into telling women how they should, or shouldnt, dress.

    All too often the hijab and women’s choice to wear it or not wear it becomes a tool by which people on both sides of the debate bash each other.

    What is interesting is that those who claim to be “standing up” for Muslim women and their right NOT to wear hijab are just as patronising towards those who choose to wear hijab, as those religious extremists are towards those women who choose not to wear it.

    With “friends” like this many times I think Muslim women would be better off without those claiming to speak in their favour!

  17. Ekat wrote:

    I’ve only been reading Jezebel for a short time but one thing I’ve noticed about it is that they have their opinions, which by virtue of living in this country they are entitled to. If you don’t like them, move on. Stop complaining.
    To be fair to Jezebel the article was a follow up to a piece about the 8 year old who was divorcing her husband. According to that article, in terms of treatment of women, Yemen ranks at the very bottom only to be above Sierra Leone and Niger. It was completely fair for her to ask why someone, who had to know that, would move there willingly.
    As for the women’s dress code, I’ve never had much of a problem with it because I noticed while working for the fashion mag Alef that the men have to cover as well. If someone wants to cover up then it’s their own choice. We shouldn’t be judging someone for how they want to dress. If they don’t want to dress accordingly, then they should have the choice not to. But you also need to understand that as much as we make comments about they way they dress, they make comments about how Westerners dress. It goes both ways.

    [Mod Note - I am letting this comment stand because you are one of the only voices defending Jezebel, but your comment violates the comment policy. "Stop complaining and move on" is not accepted around here as an argument or defense. This logic is problematic for multiple reasons but let me illustrate this way - you are defending Jezebel, a website that spends a lot of time criticizing and critiquing women's magazines for shitty content and bad airbrushing. Should they stop complaining and move on? Fuck no - that's part of what they do, and the only way to bring about change is to hold those kind of critiques. This site critiques race and pop culture - and Aaminah's very well reasoned analysis is well in bounds. - LDP ]

  18. Regina wrote:

    Jezebel is not Time Magazine, CNN or Feministing.

    CELEBRITY, SEX, FASHION. It’s on the top of every page.

    Bixby—Don’t let the screen door hit ya on the ass on your way out!

  19. Annie wrote:

    Jezebel never, ever deals with issues of race/class/privilege without upsetting me. There’s this weird “We know best” attitude there. I liked the site when it started, but the writers largely seem arrogant and bitter.

    Don’t get me started on Moe, who believes that because she once lived in Asia, she is an expert on all things Asian.

  20. Fatemeh wrote:

    Bravo, Aaminah! GREAT POST!
    That’s all there is for me to say!

  21. Sarah wrote:

    Jezebel is terrible– commenters are (justifiably) afraid of expressing any unpopular views, and even polite criticism of the articles or site in general are treated like treasonous attacks on womankind.

    In the comments, editors verbally abuse and mock anyone who is foolish enough to question them, often with the gleeful support of other readers.

    A quick glance at another Gawker media article about Jezebel’s Moe (link at the end of this comment) reveals how dissatisfied many of Jezebel’s readers are. It’s a shame that the Gawker leadership focuses only on pageviews and never on quality or journalistic integrity.
    http://gawker.com/374195/oh-snap-a-fashion-bloggers-f+you-goodbye

  22. desylicious wrote:

    I believe Anna, Dodai, and Maria-Mercedes Lara, are all “women of color” or at least non-white, so it puzzles me that you would describe Jezebel as a “white” blog. Why you would disregard the perspectives of half the editorial staff to make a point is beyond me.

  23. Bixby wrote:

    @Regina,

    Okay, your “Don’t let the screendoor hit ya…” comment pretty much plays into my dissent point about Jezebel.

    The problem I have is not with a specific thing like race or whatnot, my issue is with the fact that people there seriously cannot handle dissent and anything that remotely offends them to the point that I get the feeling that discourse is often pushed aside in favor of shaming.

    Jeebus, you have a reoccuring post called “Snap Judgement” stop going batsh-t if someone says something offensive, snap and judgmental in that thread.

    I’m one of the most snarky people ever and enjoy gossip, celebs and silly stuff. Which is exactly my point, people on that site take themselves too seriously and have this holier than thou feeling about themselves, yet often write about silly things (which I’m totally cool with).

    Jezebel people just need to calm the f down and not be so self-righteous about everything all the time.

  24. CuntLovin wrote:

    I posted this on Jezebel…so I thought I would post it here too…I understand where Moe is coming from and I also understand where the author of the Racialicious post is coming from…they seem to both have to very different interpretations about the place of Jezebel and the piece in relation to media responsibility and I dont think its a question that gets answered with saying ones right and ones wrong (or eh hem calling people cows…) That said as a woman as mixed race I love Jezebel, and most of the time commentors and bloggers apply really inclusive open logic to their thoughts ( and as noted above 3 of the editorial staff do not identify as white) but yes a little less Eurocentric basis would be nice…

  25. CuntLovin wrote:

    @ Bixby
    My interpretation of the moderating of the comments on Jezebel was a concrete effort that the site announced in January to reduce ‘girl on girl crime’…so the issue then is wether or not one finds reducing girl on girl crime to be an issue that feminism needs to take up, and if so at what point does reducing such crime enter the realm of censhorship (wow I cannot spell today).

  26. k wrote:

    The secret to reading and enjoying Jezebel, I find, is to never read anything written by Moe. I enjoy the other writers, but I’ve read maybe one thing by Moe that didn’t make me want to scream. Hopefully, other people will get that, stop clicking on the cut that gives her page views and $$ and she will leave the site. Well, that’s my small pointless hope.

  27. CuntLovin wrote:

    @ k

    See its funny because I can handle Moe…cannot bare Slut Machine…

  28. Bixby wrote:

    @CuntLovin

    Don’t worry about your spelling. If it weren’t for Firefox’s built in underlining of misspelled words, I’m not confident people would be able to read most of what I post on the internet.

    Anyway, I guess the fact that a moderator is necessary to combat “girl-on-girl” crime is the thing that troubles me. Everyone is adults and people say offensive things. I think that letting people opt to ignore/speak out against something like on their own is preferable. I’m having a hard time articulating it but Jezebel seems to have this weird chill effect thing going on.

    Additionally, I just think that a site that likes to not take it self so seriously all the time, should probably *not take itself so seriously all the time*. I just said that Sarah Jessica Parker is ugly in a snap judgment post should just be let go. I understand if, for example, someone says something completely inappropriate during a rape thread but, seriously, if you’re so about stopping the “hating” maybe you should do snap judgment. And if you want to keep doing them, maybe you should calm the f down. It’s a Gawker Media website, you’re not changing the world.

  29. Bixby wrote:

    @CuntLovin:

    I don’t like reading some of Moe’s post but that’s just from a readability standpoint.

    A lot of Slut Machine’s posts are quite amusing/informative and I quite like her.

  30. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Or perhaps, Bixby & Cuntlovin’, people are influencing and changing the face of media with a Gawker site and that is what is important.

    The thing is I hate the bait and switch – don’t act like you’re doing this great service for women in the developing world if you can’t even get the basic facts right. It’s like with Cosmo – they don’t cover shit that has to do with anything of substance. That’s not their goal or their need, so aside from publishing tactics to repel rapists, they leave that shit alone.

    Therefore, there’s nothing to call Cosmo out on. Jezebel talks lighthearted stuff – but they also have a lot of conversations about serious issues as well. And since they tend to cover those subjects very well, why do they drop the ball when it is convenient?

    In addition, what troubles me is Aaminah’s actual post wasn’t discussed. Though she raised excellent points about coverage of women’s issues, method of questioning, and spreading myths about buttsex, none of that was responded to. It was just “hey, stop being so sensitive!” So, wtf – either we’re going to have higher level intellectual conversations or we aren’t. You can’t just pick which one it is whenever it’s convenient.

    BTW, CL – where did we call someone a cow?

  31. gob wrote:

    I have to agree with Desylicious here. If you are going to call out Jezebel for their ignorance, at least try and eliminate it from your own post by doing some simple research. Both the managing editor and the senior editor are women of color!

  32. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Hey gob,

    “White” is in quotes. It’s kind of like any other mainstream mag – while there are PoCs on staff, perhaps even in high positions, the content and images on the pages are generally focused on a white audience.

  33. Bixby wrote:

    Hmm…it seems to me that it is more focused on whatever the writers on Jezebel themselves find interesting that day. I wouldn’t say that they are necessarily “focused on a white audience” though. It just happens that the writers don’t post a ton about race. I’m not so much concerned about the initial posts as I am the lack of diversity in the ensuing comments.

  34. J.W. wrote:

    Good post! It just confirms the suspicion I’ve had towards Jezebel ever since I read a snippet on the website that actually made fun of female genital mutilation. (As I recall, no one objected in the comments.)
    An African contestant on ANTM was a victim of this; and the author of an article about an incident on the show made a cruel joke about the girl (something about her “taking it in the back because the front is sewn up”, I believe), which disgusted me because I strongly consider FGM to be a form of rape. I’m guessing FGM must be fair game to them, though, because it’s only happening to “those” women – the non-white, the non-EuroAmerican, the perceived “other”.

    I got the same impression from the Jezebel article on Yemen, honestly. Given the ridiculous questions asked, the Jezebel interviewers obviously didn’t have a genuine interest in understanding anything.

    They don’t actually care about the treatment of women and children in Yemen.
    They don’t actually care about international relations.
    It was just another opportunity for tired, crude jokes and cheap racial tourism. The entire Jezebel article was nothing more than a sorry waste of bandwidth. Maybe the same is true of the site as a whole. I won’t look around the site long enough to find out, though. They don’t deserve my time.

  35. tw wrote:

    “The thing is, it’s sad that this is how people relax and chat with their friends.”

    Why is it sad? Because it’s not the way you chat with your friends?

    I love reading Jezebel. And I especially loved reading this little exchange between Moe and the reporter in Yemen, exactly because it was so casual. I don’t think anyone would read that and interpret it as the final word on life in Yemen. When I need cold hard facts, I’ll turn to the CIA world fact book.

    Lighten up.

  36. Kate wrote:

    @Bixby: “I’m one of the most snarky people ever and enjoy gossip, celebs and silly stuff. Which is exactly my point, people on that site take themselves too seriously and have this holier than thou feeling about themselves, yet often write about silly things (which I’m totally cool with).”

    Yes.

    I think you’re right to call Moe out for this bullshit, but you know, she’s not really a journalist, so those rules just don’t apply. That’s not a dig, but she’s a blogger, not a journalist, and for my money, there is still a difference.

  37. CuntLovin wrote:

    @Latoya Peterson
    Oh sorry I had copied and pasted from my Jezzy post, where someone called this author a cow, which as I noted I thought was uncalled for….sorry for the confusion…

  38. Bixby wrote:

    @Kate
    It’s not about journalistic integrity or whatever, it’s about getting all judgmental on the commentors. It’s also not at all directed at just Moe. It’s a general observation about the site.

  39. desylicious wrote:

    Latoya,

    Gross generalizations and quotation marks do not a tight argument make. As a non-white, non-Christian, non-American born, non-upper middle class reader of Jezebel, I’m a bit offended. I suspect there are many others like me. Identity politics does not make the world go round.

  40. DivergentDana wrote:

    “As I recall, no one objected in the comments”

    Actually, some women did, and pointed out the hypocrisy inherent in making jokes like that, in light of the pro-woman stance that the site claims to take, the aspersions that it routinely casts on sites like Perez Hilton and the like for ridiculing women’s bodies, and the fact that Jezebel had just introduced “Worst Comment of the Day” to shine a spotlight on idiocy/diarrhea of the mouth among its readers. I remember someone asking in another post if there was an existing progressive gossip blog, and I was going to answer that Jezebel, for all of its flaws, would be the closest thing to it that I know of.

  41. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    desylicious,

    Yeah, that’s true, but neither does a half assed interview.

    Aaminah, do you mind weighing in on your choice of words. I added what I took from it, but I want to make sure it is what was intended.

    And yes, desy, identity politics do not make the world go round. Nor does sexism. Or classism. So, you may not have a problem with the content on Jez, and enjoy reading it. Great. But we do. And Aaminah’s critique is valid as she carefully summarizes what exactly is wrong in the article. And, as evidenced from the comments, there are other people who feel there is something wrong as well.

  42. MVW wrote:

    @ k
    So, so true. While I do enjoy Jezebel mostly, I avoid reading Moe’s posts at all costs. I find them incomprehensible at best. When I read a few sentences “before the jump” that make no sense whatsoever, I know it’s a Moe post.

  43. Aaminah wrote:

    Actually, Latoya, you understood me correctly.

    Desylicious, it seems rather odd to tell me I shouldn’t be offended but that my offense offends you. You are taking this entirely too personally when IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU.

    I did not say all readers of Jezebel suck or anything. I said that I don’t typically read Jezebel myself and think it is junk reading. To each their own. I did not, however, generalize in any way. I said “white” and I meant it. What I have read of the site on rare occassions, it is written from a very privileged knock-on-women-of-color-mock-the-natives pov. Like I said, I don’t usually read it, so there may be lots of content that doesn’t do that. But if everything I happen to have read does do that, then what does that say? Do I just “happen” to read what is a rarity? I doubt it. It is not generalizing to say everything “I” have read there was backhanded racist claptrap. That is my opinion. If you like the site, by all means keep reading it.

    And you know what? This post isn’t about saying Jezebel sucks and no one should read them. It’s about calling out what was an extremely tacky and offensive post that spewed hatred. And the fact that it is WRONG to post private conversations without the permission of the “friend” whose words you are posting.

  44. CuntLovin wrote:

    @Bixby
    See I have traditionally have a problem with Slut Machines post because they tie into sexuality often, which is my passion, but I simply fail to connect with her on ethical grounds in that I find many of her decision appalling and she take no responsibility for putting her actions forward as morally acceptable via the medium of blogging…that said I realize now that I hardly ever read Moes posts either because 1) I can never follow her IM posts and 2) I have trouble with her writing style I cannot follow it…Finally I understand I will probably be admonished for this but one of the things I really like about Jezebel is that it does what very few other feminist direct mediums do, it can be light hearted and sarcastic about stuff that is sometime serious and painful…which I need sometime because the world can be a horribly fucking place and sometimes for myself the only way to digest it is with humour…but maybe thats my shortcoming….

  45. helios wrote:

    I know someone has already mentioned the “white bloggers” comment before, but I’m still not satisfied with the response to that. I don’t care if there was an on-going fued between certain white and “non-white” bloggers and who was a racist asshole, it’s still racist of this author to say “that [admitting wrong, etc] certainly is a rare quality amongst white bloggers lately.” And I simply can’t be bothered to listen to someone complaining about and bemoaning racism while making racist comments themselves.

    Jezebel is a wonderful site with mostly wonderful stories. I happen to think this conversation was a good one. Sarah was not presented as an expert. She was presented as an outsider who moved to Yemen, and for those of us who aren’t Yemeni, it showed us the side of Yemen we would consider strange. If Moe had interviewed an average Yemen citizen to see what Yemen was like for him/her, there would have been no, “Isn’t it strange that women can’t even laugh in the street?” It and things like it probably wouldn’t have even gotten mentioned, just like an American wouldn’t think to mention to a Yemeni, “By the way, feel free to laugh anywhere you’d like.” It just is.

    And according to Moe, the interview had been approved, but Sarah didn’t realize that the IM convo was the interview, so stop acting like it was a conspiracy to get an awful scoop on Yemen even if it hurt people you care about.

  46. Bixby wrote:

    @CuntLovin

    I tend to agree with you about the humor. I am a humorous person by nature and often think that people take themselves entirely too seriously or fail to see the humor in certain situations. I mean, there is certain stuff that you shouldn’t joke about and I tend to know where crossing the line is/being inappropriate/disrespectful.

    Still, as someone who dislikes when people jump all over people for being politically incorrect without looking at the underlying commentary of a joke/sarcastic comment, there are things about that site that bother me.

    I’m not sure I’m following you on Slut Machine being irresponsible and why you don’t like her. Perhaps examples?

  47. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    CuntLovin –

    See, that’s what always amazes me about these kinds of conversations. No one said you can’t make jokes about serious stuff. It’s how a lot of us survive. It’s how people like Chris Rock and Katt Williams eat.

    We’re just saying to understand what you are doing. Moe’s jokes could have worked if she was playing the whole “ignorant American” role and Sarah was dropping mad knowledge in her responses. But it didn’t happen that way.

    Ditto with writing a more indepth intro, that could have covered exactly what the political situation in Yemen is, linked to some historical info, explained some of the issues – and then added something like “But in true Jezebel form, fuck all that – we want to talk about the qat!”

    So there are ways to present something in a comedic way and still manage to put some balance in your piece.

  48. CuntLovin wrote:

    @desylicious

    I think at the end all you or I can do as a reader of Jezebel and/or Racialicious is take away whats positive from this…
    1) Fact is I am guessing you are on the Jezebel site just as I am looking at the comments in regard to the response Moe published…theres alot of readers who don’t identify as white who love and enjoy Jezebel and dont find it to be “backhanded racist claptrap”
    2) For the readers over there at Jezebel who do consider themselves feminists but have never considered how oppression differs based on race, class, gender and sexual expression, well hopefully for some it was any eye opener and whats wrong with more women thinking critically
    3) At the end of the day on both sites strong intelligent women are talking and creating debate…which to me is awsome no matter the context…

  49. CuntLovin wrote:

    @ Bixby
    I have just never recovered from her details about how she has managed past relationship such as cooking her vegan boyfriends dinner in chicken broth…or experiencing a herpes outbreak, knowing she had herpes and not telling her long term commited boyfriend that she had herpes on the defense that 1). There is alot of social stigma around herpes but its really no big deal so why should she tell him and 2) He wasn’t perfect…I feel like social stigma around STI’s in general is way overdone, that said I am of the mind that failing to disclose to a partner about an STB is making a choice for them that you are simply not entitled to make…and to me it amounts to rape…my partner has herpes and told me about it from day one and thats why its so important to me….

  50. CuntLovin wrote:

    And as many commentators pointed out at the times, the readers of the Jezebel would have been up in arms if a man had done this, but it was ‘ok’ because Tracie is a women, and STDs have social stigma

  51. Sarah wrote:

    Helios,

    I think you were off-base when you wrote:
    If Moe had interviewed an average Yemen citizen to see what Yemen was like for him/her, there would have been no, “Isn’t it strange that women can’t even laugh in the street?”
    It’s totally possible for citizens of a country to notice that things are strange. American feminists, for example, are perfectly able to criticize our culture, and are often able to convince “average” Americans with their arguments.

    Even if average citizens didn’t think to mention it, I imagine that Jezebel could have found someone more familiar with Yemen than an American journalist who spent a few months there– that is, if Moe had actually intended to inform Jezebel’s readers or spark a fruitful conversation.

  52. Bixby wrote:

    @CuntLovin

    Oh wow. I didn’t know about that stuff. Wow.

  53. CuntLovin wrote:

    @ Bixby
    Yes, so I understand someone reading our conversation still might think Im being harsh towards Slut Machine, but just so we are clear I want to disclose my bias to you. I am a mixed Hispanic and European women, I have a degree in Sexuality Diversity studies and I am pursuing my masters in Sexual Diversity studies with an emphasis on ‘Trans’ Identities…so at the end of the day sexuality and how it is taken up in our culture is pretty much the most important issue to me (and I understand it is not for everyone else)…so to see someone putting out what I find to be ’socially violent’ acts ( I think not disclosing an STD is socially violent) and feeling that is ok on the basis of being a women, or oppressed by social stigma, I find just adds support to the social conscious at large to justify failing to give women and sexual minorities full sexual expression

  54. CuntLovin wrote:

    ** Sexuality and gender how they are taken up in society are my biggest things….and I put ‘Trans’ in quotation because I undestand there are huge race, class and educational intersections around the use of the word ‘Trans’…

  55. desylicious wrote:

    Aaminah,

    Thanks for the direct response. I don’t think it should be up to Latoya to speak for you.

    “it seems rather odd to tell me I shouldn’t be offended but that my offense offends you. You are taking this entirely too personally when IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU.”

    First, I have not told you that you shouldn’t be offended. You must be referring to someone else; please reread. I don’t think I’m deserving of your ALL CAPS.

    Second, when you refer to Jezebel’s readership, that IS me, personally, among many others.

    I’d like to add that I have not stated my position on Moe’s post, nor on her style of writing. I do have my issues with it, and for your information I was the (only?) commenter on her article to defend my Yemeni friends, of which, unlike you, I have several.

    Your generalization that Jezebel is targeted towards a “white” audience while neglecting and thereby disempowering half the editorial staff (and a good portion of its readership) is hugely problematic and in the end hurts your argument.

    This is unfortunate, because I think it was entirely fair of you to call her (Moe) out on the post.

  56. wendi muse wrote:

    re: Jezebel as a whole…
    it reminds me a lot of the behavior that Ariel Levy discusses in her book Female Chauvinist Pigs. they take the approach (at jezebel) in that if they behave (stereotypically) like men in being lude, harsh, and even sexist, they can prove they are feminists by equally as raunchy as men. i don’t agree with all of levy’s arguments in her book, but i can’t help but put them in the category with the same women she criticizes and somewhat undermining the feminist movement by equating feminism with raunch culture.

  57. helios wrote:

    Sarah:

    Okay, that might have been a bad comparison. However, I do think that it still stands because even though there are undoubtedly socially conscious people in Yemen, there are also people who are used to the way things are/think it is normal, and might neglect to mention something an outsider would consider really odd because they just don’t think about everyday. Just as an American feminist might neglect to mention to anyone from another country that women were the last group of people that were able to vote in America.

    And yes, Jezebel and Moe could have found a more appropriate source for a more serious article, but I don’t think that it was ever intended to be that serious. It seemed more anecdotal and done with humor, rather than an exposé. A lot of the stuff on their site is very tongue-in-cheek. Even much of the serious stuff includes a little joke. Or, after the serious part, there might be the opinion of Jezebel posting it as an addendum. The articles about the 8-year-old Yemeni girl who sought and won a divorce were more serious (with mention of how adorable she was), and this particular post was just an off-color side piece to them. When Jezebel covers the lack of diverse women — color and size — in Vogue, should I then be offended when they post lolVouge? Especially considering that the latest lolVogue was done in a cheesy French accent? Being blatantly politcally correct doesn’t necessarily make something bad.

    And wendi muse, the only thing I have found on Jezebel to be way too raunchy were the post about making sex toys modeled on your own genetalia (didn’t need the pics) and the incredibly gross snapple post. Two things, one of which does pertain to women and I’m sure at least some women are interested in, out of how many? I doubt they set out to be Female Chauvinist Pigs or to even act like stereotypical men. Seems to me like they post what interests them and their readership, with no regard at all to how Ariel Levy might interpret it.

  58. helios wrote:

    *oops. I meant politically incorrect.

  59. f wrote:

    I was one of the commenters on the interview objecting to it – and for all the reasons you listed here (I’m Muslim too). The fact that Jezebel can’t see why it was stupid is even more worrying. Thanks for writing this.

  60. marge twain wrote:

    Woman of color and Jezebel/Racialicious reader here…

    I’m not going to say “lighten up” or don’t ever be offended by anything, ever” Of course it’s important to critique culture including blogs, but this post ascribes more importance to the Jezebel post than it merits. I think it’s inappropriate to apply journalistic standards to a blog, whether suggesting that they have more polished interview skills or provide historical context.

    First of all, it’s not an “interview”it’s an IM convo, which they do pretty often. It’s supposed to be like listening in on a glib conversation between 2 friends.
    Also, nothing should indicate that
    “she is put forth by Jezebel as if she is an expert on Islam and international politics. And since living in Yemen since January of this year, she is now also an expert on Yemeni men, culture, and mores.”
    I would suggest that anyone who doesn’t think discussing race in the context of pop culture matters, should read elsewhere. Likewise, if one fundamentally disagrees with the concept of a lighthearted blog for women that focuses on news, gossip, sex, and fashion that treats all with some measure of irreverence, then what’s the point? This would matter if it had come from any legitimate news source but it didnt.

  61. joy wrote:

    i used to drop by jezebel every once in a while until i read the post where innapropriate snarking was made about fgm. i left a comment complaining but i guess there was no real thought given to that comment before or after it was posted.

    what i find strange is that those who are offended keep being told to lighten up and that they should learn to take a joke. the interview is offensive, whether or not it was done over i.m or meant to be hilarious.

    aaminah’s piece on the jezebel article is spot on. if finding that interview not in the least bit funny makes me humourless then so be it.

  62. Emma wrote:

    As a jezzie, I’m a little embarrassed how other jezzies have seemingly taken over this thread to talk about something a little off topic.

  63. CuntLovin wrote:

    Bixby wanted to know my problems with Slut Machine, I answered her. I am sorry I failed to meet your representation for what a Jezzie is, when nobody has complained about my and Bixby’s conversation and we both learned something from it.

  64. Tami wrote:

    Like Joy, the female genital mutilation snark killed any interest I had in Jezebel. The site can be way funny, but a privileged sort of funny that grates and offends after too much exposure.

  65. A wrote:

    Thank you Latoya and Aaminah for commenting on that article! I’ve long been disappointed in Jezebel, which, it seems, tries to toe the line between earnest feminism and snarkiness – and it just doesn’t ever quite gel. My disappoint with that site, though, has recently turned to absolute disgust.

    I will say in its defense, though, that I feel some of their writers (ok, fine, just Dodai) write in a way that’s both thoughtful and funny. I blame Moe, pretty much exclusively, for Jezebel’s quick descent into b.s. The tone she sets in her posts are often echoed by the site’s commenters. Not only do I find her posts increasingly misogynistic (Calling women “catty,” “hags” and “bitches?” Come on.), but culturally insensitive and misinformed.

    So, again, thanks for calling attention to this and taking Jezebel and Moe to task. I can’t tell you how happy this made me.

  66. Zaratha wrote:

    I wanted to thank you for the call out of Moe, because as a longtime Jezzie (if infrequent poster), I find her ass trifling on a regular basis and someone needed to call her out. That entire post made me cringe.

    The only problem I have with this is that you admit to not really reading Jezebel that often, nor did you wade through the comments. While there were a depressingly high number of commenters who saw no problem with the post, there was a sizeable minority that took issue with it and made it known in the comments.

    Jezzies of color (of which there are many, self included) and white Jezzies who get it are well aware of the site’s issues WRT to race and we have been speaking out on it. I completely resent the notion that Jezzies didn’t speak up. We did, which you would have seen had you actually read the comments.

    It reminds me of people who call for boycotts of movies and shit without actually having seen them. It’s obnoxious. Which is a shame, because I completely agree with you and I appreciate you taking the time to write this post. I’m not going to tell you to not be offended when I’m just as offended. What I am going to tell you is to read a little more about what you’re condemning, and be careful to not paint with a broad brush, alienating people who are on your side in the process.

  67. luckyfatima wrote:

    this was a great analysis Aaminah. Sadly a lot of the “experts” reporting from and to the US/West on the Muslim world are very much like this author of the piece you criticize.

    BTW Jill, only two countries w/ Muslim majority populations have laws requiring that women be covered in public and Yemen is not one of them.

    Yemen may have sociocultural norms that encourage public veiling and certain public behavior, but that is different from it being a legal issue.

  68. Aaminah wrote:

    “I completely resent the notion that Jezzies didn’t speak up. We did, which you would have seen had you actually read the comments.”

    I did NOT say that Jezzies didn’t speak up. Please quote directly where in this post I ever said ANYTHING at all about the readers of Jezebel. I did not.

    This post is NOT about the readers of Jezebel. It is about the particular Jezebel post, about Sarah, and about Moe.

    I DON’T CARE if Jezebel readers spoke up or not because this isn’t about YOU, the readers. In any case, I read about 40 comments before I couldn’t take it anymore, and almost all were nasty. But I specifically said “I am sure there were some good comments left as well, but since I didn’t read through them all *I will not be addressing in depth the comment section to the post, but replying to the post itself.*”

  69. macintyre wrote:

    Ugh. What a horrible piece. I feel sorry for Sarah, because no matter how unexposed or mistaken she is about Yemeni culture and politics, she is doing a rather extraordinary thing in moving there and trying to learn. Of course she’s going to make some mistakes along the way, but the US needs all the open-minded people we can get out there to other countries (esp. in the Middle East) and learning what they can.

    As for the Jezebel interviewer, oh yuck. If she wasn’t so offensively ignorant, I’d just be embarassed for her. For once, I actually feel superior as a DC dweller, because people here, no matter what their stripe, are more sophisticated about international affairs.

  70. summer wrote:

    First, question for Aaminah:
    “And some commentors who expressed concern or disgust had comments moderated, deleted, or never published, and at least one was banned.”

    How were you able to find that info out?

    Secondly, is it just me, or is it problematic to refer to the customs of others as “strange?”

    For example, helios wrote, regarding Sarah’s depiction of women’s behavior in Yemen, esp. laughter in the street:
    and for those of us who aren’t Yemeni, it showed us the side of Yemen we would consider strange.

    And Sarah countered:
    It’s totally possible for citizens of a country to notice that things are strange.

    But to even start the dialogue with the word “strange” already implies that something is not just different, but somewhat off, or even wrong about another culture. And that doesn’t lead towards understanding. IMO, at least.

  71. van wrote:

    Has the piece in question over at Jezebel been changed? I couldn’t find some of the Q&As.

  72. Aaminah wrote:

    “How were you able to find that info out?”

    Not that I think it matters “how” I know, but I was given that information from commentors/people who attempted to comment.

    As to your other question, Summer, I don’t think that is best directed at me since I’m not the one who made the statements you are quoting.

    Personally, yes, I think “strange” has some negative connotations. It isn’t a word choice I personally would be inclined to make. But to be fair, I do think that it is relatively “normal” to find things one is unfamiliar with “strange”. I think one of the aspects of commenting on blogs is that we write fast, and often in passion, and don’t necessarily think through our word choices much before we send the comment through. So “strange” might not be the best word but was the word that came to mind. Given opportunity, some people might thoughtfully reconsider. Then again, some people just think anything that is different from their own norm is “strange” and have no shame lumping it all together. I can’t speak for those who used that word. :)

  73. summer wrote:

    ^^oops, forgot to end my italics beginning with “But to even start…”

  74. Aaminah wrote:

    Thank you Van, yes, it seems they have edited it significantly. Hmm… seems dishonest to me, but what do I know? :)

  75. summer wrote:

    hey aaminah, i wasn’t directing that 2nd question at you. it was to the two persons that i quoted. sorry that wasn’t clear.

    my first question was purely out of curiosity. i come in peace, i swear!! it’s hard to express tone, so i hope you didn’t take offense.

  76. Yusuf Smith wrote:

    (Cross-posted from Aaminah’s blog)

    There are some obvious inaccuracies in the Jezebel article. For one thing, the Yemeni government does not have “a shaky hold on power”; it has been in power for decades – since before reunification, if I remember rightly, and the country is a sort-of democracy (probably the most democratic in the entire Arab world in terms of its ruling structures, and women can vote). However, its control of some of the mountainous tribal areas is limited, but not all of these are al-Qa’ida strongholds by any means – some of them are inhabited by Zaydis and even Isma’ilis, both of which are Shi’a groups (enough said), and these do not include the big cities or the eastern part of the country.

    I don’t believe her claims about the “pee smell” either. I stayed for two months in the old (poor) quarter of Cairo, in the middle of the summer, in 1999 and it doesn’t smell of pee there. Perhaps she might come to Berrylands in south-west London, where it really does smell of sewage due to recent discharges from the Thames Water plant which has contaminated the kids’ playground as well.

    As for the bit about women not talking, laughing in the street: it’s true that the niqaab is pretty much universal there. However, I remember seeing the Yemeni version of “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?” on satellite TV a few years ago and there were quite a few women in niqaab in the audience, with their male relatives (together, not separated by a curtain or even an aisle), so the place is not THAT repressed or segregated. Also, Hadramaut in particular is known for being where moderate Sunni imams and scholars are taught, and the niqaab is as common there as in the rest of Yemen.

    The bit about qat is probably accurate; it is a huge drain on the country’s resources and takes a phenomenal amount of water, which makes the country less able to water proper crops or provide drinking water, to the extent that the government recently asked people to move out of Sana’a to places like Ta’izz and the coast, the problem being that Sana’a has a much more agreeable climate. If the government was able to take a firm line on qat, its economic problems would be alleviated somewhat as it could grow more of its own food.

    By the way, although what this Jezebel author did is not exactly honourable (the name of the blog speaks volumes; the historical Jezebel – if the Bible is correct – is best known for getting rid of a vineyard owner so that her husband, king Ahab of Judah, could seize his land), it does reveal something about the interviewee and she has not denied that what it says is accurate. I suppose there are people living in many western countries who privately think or say that they are dumps, and I said precisely that about Cairo when I was there (because I wanted to be in Damascus), but it does leave a nasty taste in the mouth all the same.

  77. Katie wrote:

    I’m a white feminist and I read Jezebel pretty often – mostly for the pop culture video clips and bits of celeb gosspi. However, I never read posts by Moe. She’s insensitive and an idiot. Unfortunately, a large chunk of the commentators cheer her for it. And, even more unfortunate, Jezebel has threatened to ban commentators – specifically SarahMC – who have called Moe out on her B.S.
    I’m glad that I read about this here – as I deliberately avoid her posts. Her post was deplorable. After having numerous reservations about Jezebel in the past couple of months, I’m going to have to make a serious decision on whether I should continue reading it or not.
    In short: I can’t believe this. At all. Moe is an idiot – and a smug idiot at that. No one should revel in their total ignorance in the way that she does.

  78. Sarah wrote:

    Summer,

    When I used strange I understood it to mean “bad” or “incorrect,” as that was how I read its meaning in the context of the conversation as a whole and in helios’s comment in particular.

    The point I was trying to make was that one doesn’t have to be an outsider to assess or criticize aspects of a culture– American feminists make a point of critically examining the United States, and I think it would be silly of us to assume that women (and men) from other countries are blind to injustice or sexism that happens in their home country.

  79. Meghan Rose wrote:

    As I’ve already mentioned at Aaminah’s blog, I’m not a Jezebel reader, but after reading this article, I think her critique is completely spot-on.

    But I was more struck by one of the comments to this article. I’m Muslim, so perhaps I’m biased, but if it matters I am a white woman who’s lived her entire life in the American south and who has never been to Yemen (although I have known a few people from there).

    Anyway, this is directed at a few things helios mentioned.

    I fail to see how asking a Yemeni person about Yemen would have been a bad way for Americans to learn about the Middle East. Yes, there are things that Yemeni people would not think to mention that someone visiting Yemen might, but on the other hand, the fact is, there is depressingly little mainstream publicity of life in the Middle East as it’s lived by people who were born there, whose families are from there, etc. The fact that the little soundbytes the average American DOES see are full of complete and utter bullshit such as this piece tends to boggle the mind. I think it would be completely appropriate for someone to actually report on the Middle East from the perspective of, you know, Middle Easterners.

    I find it inherently problematic, at least as someone who studies cross-cultural experience, that it’s almost seen as MORE informative to have a random non-Middle Easterner as the source of information on everyday life in Middle Eastern countries. I study Southeast Asia (primarily Tibet) academically, not Arab countries, but I’ve found in my own work that contemplating Tibet as experienced by Tibetans and investigating how their voice is portrayed tends to be a heck of a lot more informative about everyday Tibetan life than asking my friends who’ve spent a few years working and studying there.

    And just as an aside, I found this particular comment rather interesting…
    “just like an American wouldn’t think to mention to a Yemeni, “By the way, feel free to laugh anywhere you’d like.” It just is.”
    Actually, I’m often mistaken for being Arab (must be the blonde eyebrows and blue eyes that tip people off – I’m Irish) because I keep hijab (of my own choice; no one in my family or with any sort of authoritarian hold over me that I know is Muslim), and one of my favorite comments I get passing people on the street is, “But this is America, you don’t have to wear that here!” So in my experience, Americans are quite comfortable saying such things (amusingly enough) to those they perceive as being different.

  80. summer wrote:

    gotcha, Sarah. Thanks for the clarification!

  81. Globalistgirl wrote:

    Since I’m so late into the debate, there is only one thing that I feel is unsaid. Regarding insider/outsider perspectives, some things are best seen by insiders, and others are best seen by outsiders. Neither insiders or outsiders can on their own understand both how and why a country or culture does what it does and how that compares to how and why things are done in other countries.

    Some things you need to feel and experience to evaluate them. Some things you get so used to that you forget they can be differently. This means that sometimes, outsiders just don’t understand what they’re talking about when their praise or criticise a culture. (Cultures can be unduly praised as well as unduly criticised.) Other times, insiders don’t see the forest for all the trees, or can’t let go of ideas emotionally and see them as inevitable. The real trick for everyone, no matter our relationship or lack thereof to a culture, is to know what issues outsiders see the most clearly and what insiders see the most clearly.

  82. Renee wrote:

    This interview was not about educating westerners about a culture they may not have been familiar with. It was simply about reaffirming negative stereotypes. Just through the questions asked the interviewer affirmed white privilege.

  83. Haj wrote:

    Thank you for this post! When I read that entry on jezebel I was like ugh, how typical. Hipster feminists snarkily looking down on Islam and its horrendous repression of womankind. It is so frustrating l to have to read crap like this time and time again. Then today I found this;

    http://jezebel.com/tag/baby-names/

    I want to start a letter writing campaign against this type of socially acceptable detachment towards anyone outside of the white mainstream. Why do they think that this type of humor is appropriate?