Another Quick Reflection on Being “Black” - Not Black Enough

by Guest Contributor Juliana, originally published at Juliana Goes International

Latoya’s Note: Juliana and I have been friends since freshman year of high school, so we’ve been kicking it for about a decade now. A few years ago, she decided to decamp from the United States and spent a lot of time abroad, including a year and a half in France. When she graduated from college, she decided to enlist in the Peace Corps and was stationed in Mali. As her term with the Peace Corps is almost over, I noticed a reluctance to return to the US. I had my ideas why, but I never thought it was something like this.

It took me a while to get my thoughts together on this one. This idea has been going through my head for a while but it’s hard to get it out.

Sometimes I think to myself, would you come back to Africa to live? Would you try to find a job here? Have a family here? Settle here? Not necessarily in Mali but in West Africa, in general.

Growing up with a Jamaican family in America was tough because my parents didn’t have the mentality of other African Americans that I knew. My parents weren’t a part of the American civil rights movement, as a lot of other older black Americans, so they’re way of raising me and my sisters was different.

Most of the other black kids in my school where “ghetto.” Baggy clothes and listening to rap and hip hop. They had they’re specific way of acting that was completely forbidden for me to emulate at home.

I remember riding with my father in the car and passing groups of black kids on the street, and him saying “Look at those bums, they’re never going to get anywhere. They’ll probably end up in jail.” I would try desperately to explain that they’re way of acting or dressing says nothing about who they were. I knew many kids in my school who dressed that way and were good students. He could never believe it; always thinking that the more black you acted the less successful you’d be.

This is how I grew up. I had these thoughts drilled into my head from day one. In order to be successful, I had to act as white as possible. I was discouraged from speaking bad English. I was also forbidden to dress too provocatively. I didn’t start wearing tank tops until I was about 22.

And then came the problems with other African Americans. They hated me. “Why’s she act so white? Why does she talk like that?” I never had any black friends growing up. No, that’s a lie. I have 2 black friends. 1 is as white as I am and doesn’t have any other black friends except me and the other is a very accepting person who has friends of all colors and races.

I accepted that I didn’t have any African American friends and it never bothered me until about the year before I came into Peace Corps. I met an African American girl, through my 2nd black friend who couldn’t understand me at all. I wasn’t black enough for her. What bothered me the most about her was that she was so light skinned she could pass for white. How could this girl possibly hate me and be mad at me for not being black enough for her when she practically looked white. I had to tell our mutual friend that if she wanted to go out, I wouldn’t go if this other friend was coming too.

Then when I joined the PC I had a few other problems. I don’t want to go into too much detail but there were other African American Peace Corps volunteers who completely wrote me off as a potential friend because I acted too white. I’d try to explain myself and my back ground, but to no avail. I simply wasn’t black enough to be their friend.

It still hurts to think about some of this. And the more I do, the more I think to myself I don’t want to live in America. I don’t want to be constantly judged as being too white. Being here in Africa allows me to be myself. I never worry about how people are going to perceive me or if they’ll hate me for who I am. I simply be here.

Even more importantly, I’d like to raise my children here. One of my biggest fears about raising kids in American is that they’re grow up surrounded by African American culture and become people who would hate other people like me. I want my kids to grow up in an international environment where they are surrounded by many different types of people. I want them to accept everyone for who they are and not hate simply for the way someone else acts, talks, dresses, looks, etc.

So my answer to all those questions is, yes. I would live here. Find a job here, raise my kids here. I would love to send them to an international school where they would have friends from all over the world. I’d love to raise them in a French speaking country so that they would grow up speaking at least French and English.

Directly after PC I think I’ll go back to the states for a year or two to get a job and enjoy American comforts for a little. After that, I think I’ll try to find a job in Dakar, Accra, or who knows where.

Africa is in my heart.

I can be myself here.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Guyana » Comment on Another Quick Reflection on Being “Black” - Not Black ... on 13 Aug 2008 at 4:17 pm

    […] Comment on Another Quick Reflection on Being “Black” - Not Black …I agree so much. My mom’s family is from Guyana, and she never tells me to not act ‘white’, but she discourages me from many ‘black’ things. People always told me how ‘white’ I was. I feel more at home in Canada, because people are more … […]

Comments

  1. jayspark wrote:

    wow… i actually enjoyed reading this.
    i am from south africa, and two years ago completed my undergrad in the states.

    I am not your ‘typical’ looking african woman, or thats what the black americans told me when i got there
    (but of course i am typically S. African looking ie: light skin, brown hair).

    anyways, i think that african americans box themselves way too much, which i found very damaging to the race.

    there is too much emphasis placed on skin tone (light/dark), hair texture (good hair etc) and of course how ‘well’ you speak.

    from a pro=black and conscious family, i found it all too much to deal with, (found myself explaining why i didnt look/talk typically african to them etc) and rather enjoyed america, with a bunch of white irish and spanish people!

  2. atlasien wrote:

    This is a fascinating piece.

    Racism causes us to sometimes be terribly cruel to each other.

    I can empathize with Juliana in that I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico and have seriously considered moving to Mexico City… and part of the appeal was being in an environment where I didn’t feel judged for my authenticity level. In either America or Japan, that’s not the case.

    Plus, there’s something relieving about being viewed as a foreigner when you actually ARE a foreigner. No cognitive dissonance.

  3. momo wrote:

    I had the same experiences growing up…I was called names and people always thought that I was trying to be “white” …its sad but when you act “different” sometimes people embrace you and sometimes they try to bring you down. Sometimes people feel uncomfortable around those that aren’t acting the “norm”. Growing up in America I was able to make friends with all types of people without changing who I was. With that said I have friends that come from all backgrounds =) as for the people that try to be bring you down for being who you are…forget them! You can try to educate people and explain to them that people (black,white asian, ..etc…) are just that…people…everyone is their own person. But it will take sometime for some people to realize that (as long as stereotypes are out there). Anyway I say continue being yourself…people are gonna love and hate you…even if they don’t know you. It happens here in America and all over the World you can’t hide from it.

  4. ceecee wrote:

    I had the same experience as jaysparks (I’m Nigerian)…which is sometimes why in college, African students stick to themselves.

  5. Anonymiss wrote:

    This was an interesting read. I’ve experienced a lot of this in grammar and high schools.

    In grammar school, I “acted Black.” In high school, I wasn’t “Black” enough. Even the non-Black kids told me that I’d “acted White” because I spoke properly. Little did they know that my African parents weren’t having any of that street slang in their house. Foreigners are very strict with their child rearing because many live vicariously through their kids. Some Americans can’t understand that.

    For a number of years, I felt rejected by Black people. I did and still do have Black friends but they’re also of the “acting White” variety. “Acting White” goes beyond speech. It also deals with setting big goals for yourself, getting good grades, and setting high standards. To this day, Black people still don’t believe that they’re anything but what White racism tells them that they are.

    Over the years, I’ve gotten over most of the rejection but there’s a still a part of me that’s icy.

  6. Brie wrote:

    I am a Black American who grew up abroad in the Middle East and East Africa. Thus, I understand your sentiments about not belonging with the black community. Not until I returned to the US and attended college did I gain much proximity to black peers, and I found that I did not necessarily relate to them. I went to an Ivy league school and many of the other black kids had grown up in predominatly white environments and had been called ‘oreos’ their whole lives. However, when they got together, they were able to ‘play black’ with each other–discussing the same music and popular culture icons. Growing up overseas, I couldnt name one Tupac song. While I dont mean to boil down the culture to the vulgarities of hip hop music, I did feel a certain disconnect with these kids that detracted from my college experience.

    However, I would not be so harh in my description of black american culture–even in light of my own experiences. Many of the Carribean and African commentators on this site seem to see ‘whiteness’ as in opposition to black americanness. There is a devisive undercurrent to many of these posts when non ‘decendants’ clarify their ethnicity only when it relates to how intellegent or “white” they are. Many middle class black americans hold the same cultural values for education etc, however, we as a people generally reject the notion of education, poise, etc beging equated with ‘whiteness.’ We are in the awkward position of wanting to succeed econmically while not wanting to betray our heritage which includes charactaristics that are rejected by broader society. When you say things like “acting white” you make it more difficult for blacks to embrace ideals which should be universal like education, infavor of the negative stereotypes which have been falsely ascribed and unfortunately adopted by our community in the face of hip hop music, advertising, and the Flavor of Love show (j/k). :)

    As for the South African commentator–all brown communities are color struck to a certain degree, but South Africans are among the worst. My parent, who works for the UN, is frequently being admonished for calling herself black instead of ‘colored’ when she goes there. While the one drop rule is problematic, there is something liberating and unifying about intentionally desisgnating yourself as something that society as a whole sees as less than. While we should not be pressured to identify as anything other than what we are, the issue of black identity is more complex than some of the posts about biracialism etc would like to suggest.

  7. Brie wrote:

    Sorry about the spelling. I have to type fast since i’m at work. :)

  8. Tarah Sweeney wrote:

    Jayspark, we South Africans are the same! ;)

    What’s more, there’s no ‘typically South African’ woman.

  9. Penni Brown wrote:

    Why doesn’t the author acknowledge that her parents penciled her into a ‘box’. They were the ones that prejudged African Americans and basically biased her against them. Surely, she has inherited some of those prejudices and it probably eeks out and other African Americans are able to pick up on it. I hate when anyone implies that someone isn’t ‘black’ enough and I’m sorry the author has been ostracized, but, I wonder if she (and her upbringing) aren’t part to blame?

  10. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ Penni - No, not really. If I had caught that vibe off of Jules when I met her, we wouldn’t be friends. I know of a few people like the ones you describe, but Jules wasn’t one of them.

    I think her issue (and this is just me musing) is her having a third culture kid type upbringing without her actually being one. There was a huge disconnect between her home and the rest of the world, and I think she questioned a lot of her identity without being able to get definitive answers. Without a strong sense of either culture, she was more susceptible to adolescent teasing.

    I was teased by a few people for talking proper and using big words, but that was instilled into me as a key part of my black identity. In addition, I hung out with such a wide range of people, it was glaringly obvious that the people who did tease me were doing so out of fear or insecurity - it was nothing I did.

    After the first two years of middle school, I don’t remember being teased at all. Probably because the teasing had no effect - I was going to be myself regardless.

    However if you don’t have as strong of a foundation, and you don’t have that kind of confidence in who you are (and who you want to be) those kinds of taunts can be damaging.

  11. DiosaNegra1967 wrote:

    I hate the whole “what black is…” vs. “what black ain’t…” thing….

    I had to deal with it myself…

    And, just because the author’s parents demanded the best from her and refused to accept “street slang” in their house….means they “penciled” her into a box? I don’t think so…it sounds like they wanted her to be “better off than they were”….which every parent does, essentially….

    Personally, I think POC have been “brainwashed”, to an extent, into accepting negative stereotypes about themselves and/or their culture….

  12. jayspark wrote:

    @ brie!
    i definitely acknowledge that south africans have VERY HEAVY racial issues!

    however, i was talking bout my personal experiences, and how i feel that African Americans divide themselves too easily!

    for example; the idea of being ‘Ghetto’/having ‘good’ hair/light skinned vs dark skinned/and having indian in you (which i didnt understand).

    When i was in the South (NC), i for the first time in my life heard the comparison between having (dread)locks and being ghetto!

    i dont know if that is self-loathing! or what?!?

    but it really caught me off-guard, esp because i have locks!

  13. lowercase tasha wrote:

    Hear-hear, Penni! I’m growing a little tired of the whole “oh, woe is me, they said I wasn’t black enough” too. I’ve been referred to in that oreo context when I was grade school, and when it happened, I usually said something snide in return and was left alone. It didn’t damage my self esteem or make me think less of an entire ethnic group (because the people suggesting that I was an “oreo” weren’t always black), or any of that. Has Juliana always had positive experiences with non-black Americans, cause a lot of her animosity seems targeted at one group of people? I’ve thought about living abroad, but not because someone said that I wasn’t black enough here? I mean really, what’s Juliana going to do if she gets to her African utopia and people ostracize her because she’s, I don’t know, too American? And let’s be honest (it would make a good post), there are more than a few West Indians and Africans who turn their noses up at multi-generational African Americans. Don’t front. So, it often goes both ways.

  14. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ lct -

    Jules has been in Africa (specifically Mali in both the city of San and the countryside) for 2 years now - I thought I had made that clear in the intro. There are issues in Africa too, but that’s another post in itself - the idea of global blackness. I may cross post another one of Jules’ blogs where she talks about issues with the white PVCs.

  15. laura wrote:

    Its ethnocentrism, which is something everyone has. I don’t think her parents put her in a box anymore than the people around her put in a box, too. Furthermore, control of who belongs in your group is a way of maintaining power, whether you belong to a majority or minority. I know that its a huge problem in the queer community, some people aren’t gay enough, other people are too gay, transpeople don’t count, blahblahblah. This kind of thing is important when you’re dealing with a movement, with a set of ideals and philosophies, but when it starts to exclude people with the same philosophies because they aren’t acting in a certain way, it becomes divisive. (though if they are acting against the philosophies, thats another issue)

    …kind of basically what Brie said. I think.

  16. atlasien wrote:

    If the thrust of the article was I am so wounded by accusations of inauthenticity that from now on I will only associate with white people or other black people who also ‘act white’ then yes, that’s…

    a) a cop-out, because it accepts racist divisions without challenging them
    b) obnoxious and petty
    c) an overly-broad generalization of African-American culture.

    But the article wasn’t like that, at all! Latoya’s friend was simply being brutally honest about the pain she suffered and how it affected her future goals in life.

    A lot of this comes down to bullying issues as well.

    The absolute hardest thing about being a bullying victim is learning exactly how to forgive. The same kind of people who hurt you… they’re going to grow up and become the people that you deal with every day as an adult. If you never forgive them, you’re going to live your life overcome by simmering rage and fear. But if you forgive them uncritically and unconditionally, you devalue yourself and believe you deserve to be a victim.

  17. Jenn wrote:

    Why do immigrants always feel the need to compare themselves to black people who live in the ghetto? Why don’t they travel all around the country and city and find how we too have different behaviors and customs throughout America. There a black bohemians, punkrockers, buppies, goths and everything under the sun.
    Maybe the reason why you don’t fell judged in Africa, is because when you go overseas you only perceived as an American whether you are black or white and not as some hyphenated ethnic group

  18. Mags wrote:

    I don’t believe the author has any real animosity against 1 group of people. But then again maybe I am biased. I am a TCK having grown up in R.D.C (Congo) though being a multiracial Canadian. Trying to explain to people that the northamerican “black” experience is not universal is not that easy.
    Coming back to north america and having to always explain why I didn’t speak a certain way, why I listened to certain types of music, had little knowledge of hip hop…
    To a certain extent, being abroad I don’t have to explain why I am different because I just am different. There is less expectation (than in north america) that I should fit in a certain box because of my ethnic origins.

  19. cacy wrote:

    I know I’m gonna turn this into a me-fest but I feel for your friend. I mean I understand where she’s coming from as I’ve been there…
    It sounds like your friend was doubly colonized tho : by her parents and the superpower that used to own their country. England perhaps?

  20. lowercase tasha wrote:

    You did make it clear that she’s been in African with the Peace Corp. I read the piece. When I said, “I mean really, what’s Juliana going to do if she gets to her African utopia and people ostracize her because she’s, I don’t know, too American?” I didn’t mean to imply that she had never been to or lived in Africa for x amount of years in the first place. I was asking what’s she going to do once if she’s ostracized in whatever idealized country she’s moved to after having permanently relocated.

    What’s a PVC?

  21. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Sorry, I typed that too fast. It should read PCV - Peace Corps Volunteer.

    I think - and again, I am making an assumption, I’ll ask Jules to add her thoughts once she is back in a place with internet - it isn’t so much the being ostracized part that is the problem.

    It’s being ostracized among those who are supposed to accept you. So, while Jules went abroad and expected to be treated differently by her host family because she is a foreigner or be treated differently because the villagers see her as an American, she doesn’t expect to be ostracized for not being black enough in another country. She might be an American, and some would distinguish further as a black American, but there isn’t this idea of a pre-existing set of behaviors that one has to adhere to in order to be accepted.

    Though, this conversation does bring up some points of interest. I’ll post some more of Jules’ perspectives abroad so you all can get a more clear picture of her experience.

  22. atlasien wrote:

    I don’t want to put words in Juliana’s mouth… but as I mentioned already, being treated as a foreigner in a foreign country isn’t always that bad. It’s just that there are different kinds of social spaces for foreigners that you learn how to navigate. Only the most naive person goes to a foreign country and expects to be treated exactly as if they belonged.

    Even if you’re sometimes treated badly and ostracized, being treated as a foreigner in a foreign country is a much easier experience than being treated as a foreigner/ostracized/alienated in your own country. The mixed messages — (you belong here and this is your home/you don’t belong here so go back to where you came from) — are crazy-making.

  23. atlasien wrote:

    I just saw Latoya’s comment… we’re in pretty tight agreement on this one. Thanks for sticking up for TCKs.

  24. gatamala wrote:

    Lord knows I’ve been called “white” and went through hell. I too harbor some resentment to those folks.

    But this:

    One of my biggest fears about raising kids in American is that they’re grow up surrounded by African American culture and become people who would hate other people like me. I want my kids to grow up in an international environment where they are surrounded by many different types of people. I want them to accept everyone for who they are and not hate simply for the way someone else acts, talks, dresses, looks, etc.

    is not fair and probably taints your comments and attitude towards the type of African-Americans you claim you don’t exist. I note that L doesn’t get that vibe from you. She believes that perhaps you didn’t have a strong [parental] foundation and this made you more susceptible to the kind of bullshit you endured. Perhaps it’s not just a lack of “foundation” but exposure to good old fashioned prejudice.

    I too have lived abroad and have felt the burden of history - too a certain extent - being lifted off of me. It is refreshing starting from 0 as opposed to -5 :)

    I realize the US may be a tough sell (comforts notwithstanding) and that you want to live abroad (my sister does). That’s fine. But please don’t pretend that there is no lycee here that would enable your kids to have an international experience without being ensnared by the morass of “African-American culture”.

  25. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ Gatamala - Ah, good catch. I didn’t notice that when I read the piece, probably because we know each other well enough so I read what she meant.

    Now some of the other comments make more sense.

    I feel that the idea of a monolithic African American culture is what I spend the most time fighting against in real life. It disturbs me that so many people buy into the idea that there is only one possible way to be black or buy into negative stereotypes.

    What also vexes me to no end is the idea that anyone who doesn’t fit into that set idea of black culture is some sort of positive deviant. Many of my friends are black, with diverse interests and tastes, but I notice many people (across the racial spectrum) still seem to think of us as atypical. As different. As an exception. Even when we are in a group of nine or ten exceptions.

    It makes me wonder how many people can be labeled an exception before you start reevaluating your idea of the whole.

  26. Kua wrote:

    I decided years ago that I wouldn’t be happy living permanently outside the US/Canada* because, no matter what I did, I was always perceived first and foremost as an American. It didn’t matter that this was generally couched as “you’re nothing like most Americans!,” “no, she’s a good American,” “I had no idea Americans were X…” What mattered was that here I get to be judged by my attributes and in Eurasia I was judged by my passport.

    Juliana’s letter brings home how much white privilege was behind that experience. For her, it’s a relief to be judged by her passport for a change, compared with the pool of issues she normally had to swim through. I agree with several other posters that there are other ways of dealing with those issues, but she is under no obligation to deal with them. And yes, many of these problems are most obvious in high school and college, but if you’re concerned about raising a family here, then those issues continue to be relevant.

    *No, I don’t assume these are the same. Much of my family is from Canada and I fit in very well up there, not in the “You’re great for an American” way, but in the, “Oh, I didn’t realize you were American” way.

  27. lowercase tasha wrote:

    “Why do immigrants always feel the need to compare themselves to black people who live in the ghetto? Why don’t they travel all around the country and city and find how we too have different behaviors and customs throughout America. There a black bohemians, punkrockers, buppies, goths and everything under the sun.”

    @Jenn

    Because when you’re little, and even when you’re older, it rarely occurs to you to think of others beyond your environment in such a context. It’s quite natural to make assumptions based soley on what you know or have seen. When I was growing up, the reason why I didn’t stereotype the kids that called me names, based on ethnicity, wasn’t because I was really enlightened or race conscious or anything. As an unintended side affect of my parents separation, I learned to look at people and things through the prism of rich and poor, rather than through the prism of race.

  28. Kara wrote:

    I am african-american and I had a similar experience as Juliana growing up. That being said, I think that it’s an issue of class more than a particular cultural group. If you were around me and my friends, you would fit right in. I don’t think it’s fair to characterize African-Americans in such a way. Our community is multi-faceted. It kills me when people try to essentialize the African-American experience into what occurs in the disenfranchised neighborhoods. If I based all my feelings on people on what I experienced as a child, I probably would not like african americans or white americans.

  29. kd wrote:

    I feel the artticle is some sense. Because I was told I “talked white” when I was younger-mainly b/c I was shy and didn’t talk much. But I don’t understand why the author would relocate to Africa just because she didn’t get along with a few black folks here. Statements like

    “Most of the other black kids in my school where “ghetto.” Baggy clothes and listening to rap and hip hop.”

    are loaded and carrya a whole different meaing in themrselves. but is Julianna really trying to get away from being called “white-acting” or is she really running away from what she sees as an unfaceable or undesireable trai in herself.

    That is to say, I’ ve come to find that my people of different races, who chastize stereotypical traits of their respective race/religion/ethnicity often come to exhibit those same traits themselves.
    I.E they start liking the baggy clothes, rap etc. Sort of a weird sefl-loathing/love hate thing.

    Second, I wonder what of part of Julianna’s experience what the real cause of her pain she states
    “remember riding with my father in the car and passing groups of black kids on the street, and him saying “Look at those bums, they’re never going to get anywhere. They’ll probably end up in jail.” I would try desperately to explain that they’re way of acting or dressing says nothing about who they were. I knew many kids in my school who dressed that way and were good students. He could never believe it; always thinking that the more black you acted the less successful you’d be.

    This is how I grew up. I had these thoughts drilled into my head from day one. In order to be successful, I had to act as white as possible. I was discouraged from speaking bad English. I was also forbidden to dress too provocatively. I didn’t start wearing tank tops until I was about 22.”

    Which seems to condradict the statement she made earlier that I mentioned, because now she is defending some of those “Ghetto people.” I’m not trying to be overly critical but I’m just over the whole “other blacks said I acted white.boo whoo” thing from black folks…from Julianna to Clarence Thomas. The problem is that the people get posed as victims of the obviously anti-intellectual, criminal minded, stereotypical black community.

  30. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    Latoya you say “It’s being ostracized among those who are supposed to accept you.” Why are African-Americans “supposed” to accept her? Because they have the same skin color? Isn’t the point that skin color should be irrelevant? That they should accept you for the person you are? If they did not like her behavior (childish behavior), why should they accept her just because she happens to have the same skin color? We are always going to encounter people who don’t accept us for who we are, or rather reject us for whom they ASSUME we are.

    I too went abroad. And was insulted just for being American. It didn’t matter what type of American. It just goes to show that its all about perception rather than any “real” or biological definitions. She may or may not encounter something similar as others point out above.

    I have never had many latino friends. Some looked at me funny and I’ve also been called “white”, but I never assumed that just because I am latina I should be friends with latinos. I became friends with the people that I had things in common with, whatever their skin color or background. I was soooo excited to be in a room full of “exceptions” a couple of weeks ago at the Saul Williams concert here in NYC. Although I did not think of them as “exceptions”. It was more that I was happy to be around some other alternative people like myself (and that I wasn’t the only “exception”).

    I refuse to accept that success = white.

    Jules should do whatever makes her happy. But I would like to concentrate on breaking these sub-conscious ideas in society that equate white with success and black with the opposite. They run so deep and we’ve internalized them completely. But challenging them is the key and we’ve seen so much change already why stop now? Aren’t we in the process of reevaluating? Isn’t the self-reflection that the “black community” (not to eliminate the diversity within this huge grouping) is undergoing part of that process of reevaluation? Isn’t the self-reflection that this entire nation is undergoing part of that process of reevaluation?

  31. wendi muse wrote:

    i can identify with this piece quite a bit, and i am a non-immigrant black american from the south. i, too, had to deal with a lot of people questioning my connection with black culture solely b/c of the way i spoke, meanwhile, i may know more about my culture’s history than the person questioning my authenticity, but that doesn’t seem to matter on a social level.

    the times that i have been to brazil, i was made the feel the way you were in mali. i felt accepted, understood, and my looks, in this case, were not called into question. “what are you?” was never asked, and i didn’t have to “prove” my blackness to anyone because people were all over the place when it comes to color spectrum, without the historical context to set the stage for blackness (read: no one drop rule). with that said, there are certainly other forms of racism and classism that pop up, and there may be other bits of authenticity i may have to grapple with while living there, but it’s comforting to have a vacation from all the identity gestapo nonsense we are plagued with in the united states as a result of our history.

  32. NancyP wrote:

    differing gender expectations of urban American and Jamaican culture also might be different - not being allowed to wear tank tops until 22 definitely puts one into the “prude or church girl” category in white as well as black American mass culture.

  33. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Latoya you say “It’s being ostracized among those who are supposed to accept you.” Why are African-Americans “supposed” to accept her? Because they have the same skin color? Isn’t the point that skin color should be irrelevant? That they should accept you for the person you are? If they did not like her behavior (childish behavior), why should they accept her just because she happens to have the same skin color? We are always going to encounter people who don’t accept us for who we are, or rather reject us for whom they ASSUME we are.

    It’s complicated, but in a word, yeah. The idea of racial solidarity is hard to explain to someone who doesn’t get the concept. And it doesn’t mean it’s a foolproof thing. Just because another black person is there doesn’t mean I will have much, if anything in common with them.

    But, I do feel a lot more relaxed in a diverse setting or in a black setting than in a majority white setting. And if I am in a majority white setting, I will probably seek out the other minorities I see. Not to lock ranks or anything, but just as a way to reassure myself that if something fucked up happens, it ups my chances of finding someone who shares that perspective.

    This dynamic repeats elsewhere. If I am in a gaming environment, I automatically seek out other women. If I am at an anime convention, I seek out other non-white people.

    There are no guarantees that these people will have anything in common with me whatsoever. But more often than not, there is a small bond of shared experience, however tenuous it is.

  34. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Sorry that should be - “not believe in the concept of racial solidarity” not “who doesn’t get the concept of racial solidarity.”

  35. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    Sorry I think I did the link wrong! http://latinamericanprincesa.com/2007/08/08/black-vs-white-no-color-full-societies/

  36. Linda wrote:

    What stuck out the most for me was this quotation, “He could never believe it; always thinking that the more black you acted the less successful you’d be. This is how I grew up. I had these thoughts drilled into my head from day one.”

    I think this explains a lot. From early childhood she was taught that acting Black was associated with negative stereotypes. I find the dynamics taking place between Africans of the Diaspora (including Africans abroad) to be disturbing. We all seem to believe all the racist and negative stereotypes of each other. A great book to read is the Mis-education of the Negro by Carter Woodson; the book applies to all Black people, including those in Africa, and I think it sums up a lot.

    I would like to know what it means to act white, cause if acting white is intelligence and education, I guess Black people have a history of being white, being that African people had, engineering, libraries, universities, religion, socialism, and agriculture before a white person knew what a shoe was or had a house with a window (I love Dr. John Henrik Clarke, R.I.P).

    Latoya thanks for posting this…I’m snooping through Juliana’s blog and I see she’s a fan of Salif Keita he’s one of my favorite artists; I’m listening to him right now!

  37. lowercase tasha wrote:

    @ Latoya, yeah, I agree (I know. wow, right?) It’s about minority, especially black solidarity. We’re all in the struggle!

    In my experience, when people say you’re acting white, they do so for one or two reasons. One of which is literal because people feel that you exhibit behavior that is thought of to be stereotypically associated with white culture, in terms of what music you listen to, clothes you wear, slang, what have you. The other reason has less to do with “acting white.” Rather, the phrase “you’re acting white” is actually code for “Bitch, you think you’re better than us, don’t you? That’s why you’re going out of your way to deviate from the ‘norm’ ” And I’m thinking that maybe a lot of the African American kids that were giving Juliana static, like that light skinned girl she refers to, were really saying the latter.

  38. Penni Brown wrote:

    Thanks for replying to my comment Latoya. What I was getting at, and what other commenters have been able to communicate better than I, is the hypocrisy of it all.

    She holds a certain prejudice (based on her upbringing) against black people that ‘act black’ while clinging to the belief that ‘acting white’ is better. I’m not saying she’s not a nice person. I have friends like her. LOL

    But, you can’t expect the people that YOU judge to turn around and accept you with open arms.

    In addition, fleeing the country (USA) does not erase the damage that the lies that she was told about African Americans has done.

    I agree with everyone that suggests that it’s silly to assume there is ONE black experience. You don’t have to like hip hop, wear cornrows or prefer your chicken fried just to be black enough. That’s ridiculous. I’ll defend anyone all day long that has broadened their horizons and has co-opted a global point of view into their ethnicity’s viewfinder.

    But, I have a problem when people make such sweeping generalizations about how ‘all African Americans’ are a certain way.

  39. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    Seeking out others who are similar, or seem similar isn’t a hard concept to grasp. I was excited at the Saul Williams concert because there were African American alternative-types and it was one of the few times at such an event that I wasn’t the only non-white. But what I am trying to say is that it shouldn’t be absolute and automatic. Just because her classmates are black and she is black: they HAVE to accept her. Like you say: a small bond of shared experience. Maybe her classmates didn’t feel they had a shared bond with her regardless of her skin. And maybe they just had to pick on the one that was different. That’s a pretty common experience as well.

    Perhaps we feel more comfortable with other minorities because of the history, but as that changes then maybe we won’t have to care about being “uncomfortable” in an all white setting? It was her fellow “race” that made her feel ostracized not whites. Therefore the concept of racial solidarity isn’t at stake. It’s a matter of acceptance or rejection by a social group regardless of color. If they had called her a “prude” or “geek” instead of “white” she still would not have been accepted. Unfortunately, because of the history of race in the U.S., the insult took on a whole new level beyond “typical” childhood teasing.

    Who we seek out is a matter of how we grow up. You may seek out women, I seek out men. I grew up with my brother and two boy cousins. I was just trying to say that her classmates should not be expected to accept her JUST because she is black. That’s as bad as not hiring someone JUST because they are black. And the whole point of my bringing it up at all is that this perhaps explains why it hurt her so deeply. Like being rejected by family. But in the end, it is dangerous to assume that certain behavior will occur based on skin color. Racial solidarity works for you, but I’m sure you’ll agree that you can’t assume that every black person thinks the same way. I think that it’s a great thing we can all decide for ourselves what works for us. You are right, it is a matter of “belief” not fact or any sort of absolute truth. That’s why I question it.

    This is an interesting discussion, but I couldn’t help noticing that no one questioned the idea that her classmates MUST accept her. There were a lot of interesting points made but basically everyone seemed to just assume that she should be accepted without question by fellow blacks (maybe some were assuming “by fellow humans or classmates”). This blog exists to question the assumptions behind stereotypes and racism. This is an example of what I mean by these ideas being so internalized.

    Every place has its ostracized groups fighting for rights and recognition. Perhaps another perk of globalization is that like Jules we can just pick up and go somewhere where we do fit in. I’m still looking. Especially on this site, since everyone has such great, thought-provoking ideas!

  40. Bohemian Writer wrote:

    Hello Juliana,

    Thanks for your post. It was very enlightening to read & like you, I am a first-generation American. My family is black from the islands of Cuba & Trinidad. My upbringing was very unlike those of some of my now-African-American friends. My father still says the same thing when he sees boys wearing their jeans “sagging” & have “piercings” in their ears or even “cornrows”.

    In most of my secondary education (elem. through high school) I was written off as a “black white girl” & so-to-speak, had no black friends until college. Even in college, the pressure to be in a sorority was evident & since I didn’t “pledge” anything, I was even looked more “down” upon.

    I can understand how you want to raise your children in “in an international environment where they are surrounded by many different types of people. I want them to accept everyone for who they are and not hate simply for the way someone else acts, talks, dresses, looks, etc”

    However, I believe that no place will have the complete “international” environment mindset. No matter the majority of people, there will always be a standard extent of conformity needed to be met by the people there.

    I applaud your efforts by joining the Peace Corps as it takes a strong heart & will to volunteer for the betterment of a country & hope that you succeed in finding your international environment in your corner of the world.

    Salud.

  41. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    lct - Well, I am glad we at least agree on that.

    For everyone else, some additional information. Jules has a pic of herself on her blog. People tend to assume a lot about Jules based on how she looks. This has been especially prevalent since she let her hair go natural when we were 16. People look and expect one thing - but get upset when they actually talk to Jules and hear a valley girl voice pop out (think Cher from Clueless).

    So, I think a lot of times, it’s the disconnect between expectation and reality.

    I didn’t put notes in because this is Jules story, but I want to go back to this section:

    met an African American girl, through my 2nd black friend who couldn’t understand me at all. I wasn’t black enough for her. What bothered me the most about her was that she was so light skinned she could pass for white. How could this girl possibly hate me and be mad at me for not being black enough for her when she practically looked white.

    That one, I don’t know about. I don’t think my friend rejected Jules because she didn’t think she was black enough (unless they had a conversation I wasn’t privy to). Jules is very smart. But she comes off as really ditzy. If you read her older blog entries (before 2006) you’ll get a sense of what I mean. So, while I know her well enough to see that she is engaged, involved, and politically aware, I have had some mutual friends tell me they think she’s an airhead. So that’s my take on the situation.

    But I do think that is interesting in light of the conversation. How do we attribute feelings to others? Unless someone implicitly states I don’t like you because you are x, do we ever really know?

    lct - I will cosign on the acting white reasons. Again, I feel like if you are secure in your black identity, it isn’t a big deal. But if you AREN’T secure, it can really fuck you up.

    Penni -

    Yes, I do understand. I think that is why it hurts me the most when I hear other black people say things like “I can’t relate to other blacks.” It’s like they just bought that line of reasoning. Like I said before, I don’t catch that vibe from Jules, but I can see your point. I also want to note that she generally does NOT have problems with Caribbean people or Africans so maybe there is an element of internalized prejudice. But then again, having been there, I can understand how that happened. Everything she heard was Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica - I was not surprised when she began identifying as Jamaican-American.

    LAP -

    I see what you mean, but I think that is a reasonable assumption you make. Generally, people don’t walk into a social situation and expect to be ostracized. And I don’t think its unreasonable to make a connection with people who may be similar to you. To deracialize the analogy, its one thing for me to go into a gaming convention and get dissed by most of the men. That’s something that I have come to expect, rightly or wrongly. But with other women, I would expect a little more from them. If I was rejected by a group of gamer women, I would feel more hurt than being rejected by the men.

    I don’t think everyone has to believe in racial solidarity, but it saddens me when they don’t. If you believe in racial solidarity, then it makes logical sense to that blacks should accept other blacks as they are - all the petty racial policing serves to do nothing but divide us further. And I feel that kind of vested interest in other African Americans (and non-white/marginalized people) and my role is to share in making someone else’s burden lighter. So that is what is normal and natural to me.

    And I am not sure that the idea of being invested in each other is a bad thing.

  42. anonymous wrote:

    D-I-T-T-O, PENNY. I second your opinion Too. PLEASE DO NOT GET ME WRONG!
    I do not like the way some African Americans do things either. Some of US DO mistreat our own and our ‘cousins’ from other places. But I have a hard time thinking that some of our first cousins from other places don’t bring their biases into the picture either! It takes two to fight. I know how some of US get down! I saw College Hill 4th Season Virgin Islands! The U.S. crew got on MY nerves!So everything they say AIN’T wrong! I just know I have run into bias from my people from other places from time to time as well. I am sure there are forums that cover some of the issues between BOTH native-born U.S. and other blacks from Africa, the Caribbean, and other places! I have come across some but would not mind finding more!

  43. Ali wrote:

    I love this blog and posts like this are one of many reasons why! I am thoroughly enjoying all of the comments here and wishing I could have had the privilege of knowing many of you in high school. It would have made things much more bareable! I really relate to Juliana’s post because I think questions of authenticity and acceptance are very salient for many POC be they members of the African diaspora or an other.

    I grew up in a smallish college town where the white population was 95+% when my family moved there. Most of the people in my life who’ve had the nerve to tell me that I act/think I’m white were (get this) white themselves! I’ve never really had black people come out and say that I act too white to my face (that is aside from teasing from my relatives AND parents). The fact that I’m “different” is usually addressed by the coded question: where are you from.

    I always felt that being told I act to white by white people was more hurtful because they really didn’t have any grounds on which to judge me. They simply could not reconcile my skin tone with the fact that I could not rap, was unfamiliar with certain slang and didn’t act out a number of other “blackisms” they’d seen on MTV.

    Despite the fact that I’ve never been flat out told that I act too white by other POC there was always a palpable barrier. I knew what things like: “where are you from” or “you have an accent” or “you remind me of Cher from Clueless” meant. In a way it was liberating to not fit into anyone’s preconceived perception of blackness because it allowed me to form my own identity but it was also very isolating.

    I’ve struggled my whole life to find a community of color that I can really relate to. The fact that I’m not religious either has made connecting with the Af. Am. community REALLY hard for the most part. When I tell people I’m not religious some of the looks I get feel like they could melt my skin. One lady actually said to me, “but you seem like such a nice person.” Apparently in her eyes non-religious = devil worshiping baby killer!

    If Juliana feels that at this point in her life that making her life and raising her family in Africa is what she needs to “feel the love” then I can totally get behind that. The black experience is wide and varied. Everything she describes above sounds like just another layer.

    By the way if anyone is interested in starting a support group for blacks/ POC raised in white suburbs (or knows of one that already exists) let me know!

    @latinamericanprinces - I can’t believe I missed Saul Williams. Gaaaahhhh!

    Sorry for the long-ass post everybody!

  44. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    I agree whole-heartedly “being invested in each other is NOT a bad thing”. That’s the whole point. I’d just rather do it based on being fellow humans, rather than based on race, something which biologically doesn’t even exist. Its something that is defined differently by social groups, so to me that makes it in a way “unreliable” as a basis for solidarity.

    At what point do we draw the line about who falls into the racial solidarity grouping? What shade is the cut-off point? All these social constructs are open to interpretation. Jules and Wendi both point out how race is interpreted differently elsewhere. One can thus argue that the group decided Jules was not racially black and therefore had no reason to feel racial solidarity or accept her. How is the black race defined exactly? Ok I’m making this discussion way more complicated. Sorry.

    I think we agree for the most part, its mostly semantics. Also you’re definition of racial solidarity “blacks should accept other blacks as they are” clarifies things. That is different than “blacks should accept blacks because they are blacks” (my interpretation of solidarity). But then we are back to semantics. Come to think of it, I started listening to a podcast last week about solidarity versus loyalty. I think I better review that and think about it’s use in this context.

    As for Jules, all I can say is do what makes you happy. You obviously are a fighter and survivor and doing something good with your life. If it helps at all, the negative experience is part of what got you where you are today. It shaped you and informed your subconscious self, which to me seems like a pretty great person.

  45. leo wrote:

    I’m the daughter of Nigerian immigrants and I had the good fortune to go to high school in Nigeria.

    I can relate to what Juliana has posted here. The difference between growing up here and growing up there is that in Nigeria, everyone looked like me. I was the majority. All the successfull people all the professionals, all the touts, all the criminals looked like me. Color had nothing to do with sucess.

    When I got here to start my college education, my color was still irrelevant to my success. I did and always have done what I needed to succeed. Part of the immigrant experience is also knowing that opportunities are rare and feeling the need to seize what America has to offer.

    My parents never used the words acting white or acting black. You were simply to work hard and succeed.

    After almost 20 yrs here, I would love to raise my children in Africa, beacuse America wears you out. It is impossible to be race neutral here. My African friends think I’m too American, my Af-Am friends are non-existent. I go to the salon to do my locks and love being among my people, but I see distrust in their eyes. Everytime I open my mouth, I feel like I don’t belong. Plus, once a year, some idiot writes an article about blacks being inferior in some way. This country can wear you out, for real.

  46. MNC wrote:

    Looks like the Authenticity Police knocked right on your friend’s door LaToya.

    It’s a shame that she was rattled by them and now feels like the US is not her home.

    Even still she should do whatever will keep her happy, healthy and sane.

    There are so many thoughts here that are interesting and valid, but I want to pick up on one just because it has always vexed me.

    Racial solidarity.

    I “get it” but am not sure I “believe in it.” The reason I find “RS” so problematic is that it rises from a defensive posture (for good reason) and it’s very definition/neccessity has been shaped by certain historical realities-some that still hold true today and others that don’t.

    It’s one of those things that the institutions of white supremacy created and fostered but remain static while white supremacay has evolved with time. So in essence, it’s like you’re still using a typewriter while the rest of the world has moved onto computers and the internet. (If that makes sense)

    Most troublesome to me is that like so many things, it embraces the concept of race as an inevitable and absolute truth.

    Master’s house…master’s tools-you feel me?

    In addition, at the most basic level my personal belief holds that if one is always coming from the defensive, the odds of crappy things/behavior going down are almost inevitable. (I know that sounds very Oprilana Van Zant, The Secret-ish, but go with me on this one for a minute)

    I’m not going to go into that statement full and long, but at the end of the day I think you can’t always walk into a room of white people for instance (just for instance, because it holds for any ethnic group) and brace yourself for stupidity, though your past experience is practically willing you too.

    I get all day long why the defense is needed, but what a horrific way to go through life.

    Which is wny I believe on the flipside, most people of choose color keep themselves to themselves to avoid that whole head game of crap expectations. Which is totally understandable, but at the end of the day, what does it solve if we can’t relate to one another on an individual level?

    What does that inability to expect anything but the worst in your fellow human being do to even the vaguest possibility of change?

    Now there are all kinds of complicated realities that inform how and why different kinds of people hang out/mingle or whatever and I know that sometimes white people will never fully step outside of their “sundown town” lives, but I think at somepoint we’re all going to have to make the decision to align ourselves in friendship, love, politics, etc. based on something more than skin color, solidarity, expectation, defense, offense or whatever.

    Time will not wait for us to get our acts together on this one. We have to be a lot more honest and fearless to break down these barriers on all sides.

    If we can’t do it in our lifetime, we need to make sure our kids have the tools to do it in theirs.

  47. anonymous wrote:

    It’ s being ostracized among those who are supposed to accept you.

    How do we know in some-I am just saying SOME- cases like this that African Americans “are accepted” by black immigrants from other places?

    If you believe in racial solidarity, then it makes logical sense too that blacks should accept other blacks how they are.

    How do we know for sure African Americans are embraced by black immigrants. I will admit I wonder if the author did not have subconscious biases EVEN though I will assume AS WELL like she said that she DID try to get along with the U.S. blacks she grew up with. I am sure she said she tried to get along and I know that people from other places face obstacles in getting along with native born Americans regardless of color! I have empathy with the author and don’t envy her situation. I am not so much trying to place blame on her as much as trying to say that I have often RIGHTFULLY come across enough articles that rake African Americans over the coal for biases but give short shrift to the biases faced by them as if they deserve them just because! With all this said, I think that African Americans participate in their share of FOOLISHNESS regarding this matter but that some black immigrants are guilty of painting African Americans with a broad brush too by assuming that alot of sensible working class-POOR and MIDDLE CLASS blacks are beneath them-and all of them are not first generation! Even though the second generation often makes a point not to do this stuff!

  48. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    LAP -

    That’s the whole point. I’d just rather do it based on being fellow humans, rather than based on race, something which biologically doesn’t even exist.

    Yes, that would be nice, wouldn’t it? But even as race doesn’t biologically exist, it has real world ramifications that have to be dealt with.

    No, you aren’t making the conversation complicated. As far as I am concerned this one is far over due. Me personally, I don’t draw a line for color, or tone. If you say you’re black (and have black ancestry somewhere along the line) then that is enough for me.

    If you don’t believe you are black, can’t relate to other blacks, prefer to refer to yourself as a white person who was born in the wrong race (yeah, heard that one) then I just don’t have time for you. I may ask about those beliefs and where they came from, but I am not interested in forcing anyone to claim blackness if they don’t want to. I just don’t see the point. I’d rather focus my efforts with others who believe what I believe.

    I see what MNC is saying as racial solidarity can be divisive and can be misconstrued. But so can a lot of movements…

    Solidarity v. loyalty is an interesting dynamic. What podcast are you listening to?

    MNC -

    If we can’t do it in our lifetime, we need to make sure our kids have the tools to do it in theirs.

    That’s why we are here, isn’t it? Racial solidarity is good and works for me now. (My definition, btw. I am not sure how others define it.) But, there are things that have had to grow and change due to the times and the idea that it may not be needed anymore.

    I’ll explore those ideas a little more in the interracial dating series.

    Anon -

    If you believe in racial solidarity, then it makes logical sense too that blacks should accept other blacks how they are.

    And there lies the rub. Is African-American solidarity the same as black solidarity? Hmm…

    I’d like to think so, but I know exactly where you are coming from on this.

    Also, thanks to everyone who commented, particularly those who have struggled between two cultures like Jules. I’m sure whenever she gets back to San, she’ll be pleased to read all your responses.

  49. anonymous wrote:

    I question the motives/purpose of SOME of these articles although I do not mind saying that some African Americans are too critical of each other and envy their brothers success at times!I think the more successful of us can be too quick to dismiss the least successful of us as well but that is another topic. I just threw this out since I noted some blacks envy others for their success. We have dropped the ball in some areas-like economics and education!I also know that some blacks do not focus on academic success like we used to and I fought US for this AS MUCH as I do the larger society!But every immigrant that comes here is not the “model textbook of success” nor “automatically nobodies” for it-and I do applaud them as much for their astonishing success or lack of it on occasions. BUT all these groups got the same problems African Americans have but you would never know by SOME of these articles! I have often noticed that some of the people that tend to write these articles have biases against African Americans themselves, NOT THE IMMIGRANTS THAT DON’T! NOT THE ONES THAT CALL OUT BOTH COMMUNITIES WITH WELL-MEANING CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM!

  50. MNC wrote:

    I totally agree LaToya-that’s why everyone is here to make it better-my point is that we in our quest to make things better have to check our language and our own personal baggage on these issues.

    I think someone mentioned it, but it’s really important to outline the difference between “political”
    and “cultural” “blackness” and what that means.

    Language is so important in these discussions and I don’t think we can take it for granted when terms like “black” “white” “racial solidarity” and “ghetto” etc are used.

  51. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    I’ll search through my iTunes later for that podcast. I listen to way too many and just can’t recall. When I find it, I’ll email it to you. It was probably NPR. Cause you know I’m “white like that”. Sorry I couldn’t resist. Actually I’m a dork like that.

  52. FranSky wrote:

    I know this will seem way off topic but the term Bohemian is a misnomer. Bohemia was once a country. There are still decendants of that now gone counrty (thank you nazi’s) and they do not care for their ehtnicity being used to describe some cutlural concept. Bohemian writer are your people from Bohemia? And there are no bohemian Blacks unless they are actually Black & Bohemian.

    It would be like saying that’s so Italian or that’s so Nigerian.
    Thanks!

  53. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    Thanks MNC. I think you said it clearer than me. That’s what I was trying to get it: “not taking these terms for granted.”

  54. lunanoire wrote:

    FranSky,

    Thanks for the info. What is a more appropriate synonym for “bohemian” as it is commonly used?

    As for the my-authenticity-was-doubted-as-a-child-so-now-I’m-wary-of-people-who-look-like-me: once people are adults, don’t they have the choice to find people who had similar experiences growing up? Won’t participating in hobbies that appeal to you put you in touch with others who think/act/believe as you do? I think some communities are harder to find and establish, but they do exist somewhere. Some prefer to feel that they are exceptional and “not like those other people,” which can be isolating. Like at Saul Williams concerts?

  55. anonymous wrote:

    MNC, I am not the same person as LaToya-but I thank YOU ALOT for responding to my post. I do believe in black solidarity because I feel like some of our lack of progress now stems from the lack of solidarity we currently have now. I question the more narrower aspects of black nationalism but I feel that blacks especially, and minorities generally, have gone about INTEGRATION the wrong way without questioning the implications of it done EXTREME! BUT let me just say I am not letting our crazy ANGLO-yankee-NEGRO asses completely off the hook for our ignorance at times even as I criticize the immigrants in some cases. I am also not trying to put all immigrants in the STUPID ASS IGNORANT BOX category either! We all need to genuinely learn from each other and stop trying to suck up to the white man at the EXPENSE of each other to fit in. Some African Americans are going about resistance the wrong way in devaluing education without using some of the stuff they learned in school to learn in other arenas to help the community just like some immigrants are not distinguishing their practices they promote/condone from prejudice , classism, and non-critical white idolization. I just wish these issues were criticize more constructive than they sometimes are! I do not think that African American solidarity is the same as black solidarity, but I think black people from other places nowhere appreciate the struggles of native/domestics blacks in the U.S., the Caribbean, or Africa or vice versa. Alot of this stem mostly from lack of self-knowledge in addition to misconceptions/stereotypes of each other but alot of black immigrants from other places have different outlooks because they come from different walks of life classwise. So regular African Americans don’t understand the elite/educated West Indians and vice versa. But elite African Americans don’t understand regular West Indians and vice versa. WE ALL GOT TO DO BETTER!

  56. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    lunanoire,

    Yeah, I can feel you on that. It’s like when I hear “I don’t know anyone of x race who has the same interests as I do!” Dude, the world is large. Someone somewhere probably does and you’re just too busy prejudging each other to find out.

    I agree that some people do prefer to be “the only” like it’s their own special thing. But most don’t. I needed friends who were art loverx/yoginis/alt religion devotees/gamer girls/ anime fans and the universe did provide. And most of them are PoCs. I think one just has to be open to looking.

  57. anonymous wrote:

    But yeah, but how you say stuff and your tone should be clear. This is a must. Some of us-have a hard time doing this(I do but I try.)-but some of us don’t try and therein lies the problem in alot of cases.

  58. islandgirl550 wrote:

    I read all of the response and I too have sometimes felt like Juliana. I have West Indian parents and know exactly what Julianna’s parents spoke of, but this post reminded me of something Toni Morrison wrote in 1993 for Time magazine:

    “This is race talk, the explicit insertion into everyday life of racial signs and symbols that have no meaning other than pressing African Americans to the lowest level of the racial hierarchy. Popular culture, shaped by film, theater, advertising, the press, television and literature, is heavily engaged in race talk. It participates freely in this most enduring and efficient rite of passage into American culture: negative appraisals of the native-born black population. Only when the lesson of racial estrangement is learned is assimilation complete.”

    My parents definitely had negative images and thoughts of black Americans before we even left Jamaica. (It was always, “they don’t raise their kids right or they are nasty.”)Since my parents didn’t live thru the Civil Rights Movement they didn’t know who some of the famous black Americans were who probably shared their same values.

    When we got to America we were treated better by whites. We had accents, foreign passports and got loans for businesses immediately. My mother even began to call us “Special Black,” because we were treated better. Getting black American friends changed my parent’s perspective completely.

    I’d like to know how much of Juliana’s parents’ perception of blacks had to do with black American’s being on the bottom of the totem pole and looked down upon to begin with? Also, did her parents ever make friends with black Americans and thus saw kids who had the same values? Juliana may not have felt so alone if she joined Jack & Jill (http://national.jackandjillonline.org/). We Jack & Jill kids could have ecohed her story word for word and for the record, I was the only immigrant in the entire group of black children.

    complete Morrison text is here: http://www.time.com/time/community/morrisonessay.html

  59. curlyscales wrote:

    Unfortunately, many Af-Americans are too wrapped up in themselves to think outside of the “what about me?” box. Being an African American woman who spilt her childhood between Spanish Harlem and Crown Heights, Brooklyn, I was fortunate enough to have friends from different parts of the world. However there were (and still are) too many of us that cannot bear to hear the triumphs or misfortunes of other POC with remarking, “what about me?”.

    I have a girlfriend who will listen to a Trinidadian co-worker speak on some of the trials and tribulations faced in his birth country, but honestly feel that she cannot afford any sympathy

    I’m not denouncing the crap that we’ve faced or continue to face but our behavior can be so miserly and self-defeating that I often grow tired of the battle.

  60. nichelle wrote:

    Brie,

    You have the most interesting and insightful commentary. I am a southern born and raised black american. I am sometimes enraged that “blackness” has been defined and limited to hip hop, BET, and styles of dress. This foolishness that has been around for the last 20-30 years undermines much of the labor that black americans performed . It’s only been in the last 20-30 years that blackness has been so narrowly defined.

    I agree with the one drop rule being a burdern and powerhouse. Brazil and Carribbean nations maybe more accepting of the different shades of brown. American slavery did not encourage the mixing of “races.” But they have deep color issues and those on the darker end of the color spectrum bare the brunt. What needs means more often than note is that the africans in south america have no political definition to challenge these color or racial discrimination.

  61. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    Hi lunanoire. I don’t understand your reference to Saul Williams concert. Can you explain please? Thanks.

    Latoya - I found the podcast. It’s actually about solidarity versus conformity. Different but still applicable. Judge for yourself. http://mediasearch.wnyc.org/m/19514896/one_in_a_million_the_brian_lehrer.htm

  62. Mark wrote:

    International school is a pretty good idea.

    I think you should act the way that you feel - act in a manner which makes you feel comfortable, is social responsible and is fulfilling to yourself. If people slam you for acting “too white” or “too black” then that is their problem.

    All “acting” is human. Black people and white people are human. If people truly believed there is no difference between races, then people shouldn’t care “how people act”. If white people and black people are part of the human species (and they are), then who cares if others act white or act black, because at the end of the day, all that matters is that someone is a human.

  63. Michelle wrote:

    I love how Jack and JIll got a shout out!

    Coming in late, but I wanted to add two things.

    When I got to college and took a class called African American Vernacular English (AAVE) taught by a brilliant linguist named John Rickford, I gained a whole new respect for “talking Black”. I can’t get into the whole course in one post, but to know that African people who came to the new world learned to speak an entirely new language using the grammatical rules of their own native tongues, moved me to my core. And it is a vernacular that we share with the entire diaspora. The entire diaspora. Therefore, I believe that there is something to be said about knowing the vernacular and being able to code switch with proficiency. It is not the only marker of what it means to be Black, but if you were of Chocktaw descent, wouldn’t it be a source of pride and connection to be able to speak the language of your ancestors? For Africans in the new world, our vernaculars and pigeons are very good ways to connect to our past and our ancestors.

    Also, yes I have been called every White girl in the book. That said, had anyone else here met the Black girl in school who does EVERYTHING the White girls do with dire consequences? What do I mean, I mean, she wears the same clothes but shouldn’t because she has a bootay and looks terrible in the jeans she borrowed from her White friends. She washes her hair everyday, but has a relaxer so therefore it is falling out. She also blow dries her hair without curling it so it looks more straight, but it looks awful. She wears blue eyeshadow and pink lip gloss that she borrowed from her White friend. We have to admit that there is another end of the spectrum here. And I use a girl in my scenario because it is more obvious with girls, I think. You can see them trying so hard. So anyway, I am playing devil’s advocate. To be clear, I completely empathize with the author and I think her post was very heartfelt and honest.

  64. Lola wrote:

    Attitudes like Juliana’s really irk me. I’m sorry.

    First off, I agree with a pp that class may have a lot to do with it. I grew up in a middle-class black city. My school was competitive…a school of excellence. The popular kids wetre often vert smart.

    You only got the “act white/talk white” label if you only wanted to hang around white kids and thought you were better than other black people.

    All of the black folks in my circle are enterprising, successful, married, and doing big things. None of us consider ourselves white or had to act white to get where we are.

    Juliana needs to realize that success and black Americanness are not mutually exclusive. It’s a shame her parents didn’t teach her that life lesson.

  65. Lola wrote:

    Michelle, ITA with you about AAVE! I had that same core-shaking. How freaking AWESOME is a people who are forced to learn a foreign tongue, yet find a way to infuse the nuances of their native language? And how awesome is it that it’s been passed down from generation to generation?

  66. sfsinger wrote:

    I grew up in all Black neighborhood in an intentionally segregated NorthEast city. I always wanted to live in a multi-ethnic neighborhood with economic variety. I’ve been accused of not being Black enough even though I have a lot of pride in my ethnic background. I read a lot of books that were never covered in school and would impart some much needed knowledge on those who clearly needed it. The only times I felt outside the norm of regular ‘Blackness’ was with my taste in music and need for diversity. But honestly it’s about quality and in finding many voices and viewpoints to draw upon. I was in the UK in 2003 when the Iraq conflict broke out and I mistakenly though my ‘Blackness’ would buffer the anti-American sentiment I encountered as many many people were opposed the the US invasion. Nope! I had to put a Maple Leaf patch on my backpack or try to use some made up accent because of the major hateration I was getting. So what may work to your advantage in one area can be a disadvantage in another. I think it’s important to just be yourself and not carry around negative thoughts from past hurts.

  67. Big Man wrote:

    I grew up smart and went to school with black kids who fit certain stereotypes.

    Strangely enough, I was never told I acted white. I know I read a lot, particularly sci-fi, and I knew how to speak proper English, but I never got that insult.

    If I did, I would have just responded in kind with an insult about the person. Whenever I read stuff about folks getting teased as kids, it seems like a lot of people really didn’t handle teasing by lashing back out. That’s what I was always taught.

  68. Kara wrote:

    “I think it’s important to just be yourself and not carry around negative thoughts from past hurts.”
    Thank you sfsinger for pretty much summing it up.
    I mean, because if you choose to carry around that negativity and bias, doesn’t that make you just as bad as the ignorant people who hurt you in the past?
    Ignorance can come from people from all backgrounds and colors.

  69. lunanoire wrote:

    latinamericanprinces-

    The sentence placement was off. Sorry. I meant that a person who likes Saul Williams and perhaps identifies w/ him in some ways could meet like minded people who have had similar experiences.
    To be honest, I have struggled between the false choice of either spending time with people I know and like or participating in activities that really interest me alone. Maybe it’s time to make new friends.

  70. lowercase tasha wrote:

    I used to respond in kind when people said that I “acted white” until I got to the sixth grade. I was really vicious about it too. I went to private school and my mother thought I needed to be in this support group for children of divorce/single parent homes. Several of the girls there were the ones teasing me. All of which were very bitter and vocal about their frustration regarding their home lives, yet for some reason, I wasn’t. Now yes, I’ve always been a tad aloof (When I was in high school, my boyfriend said I was a “bubble girl” on account of my being politically conservative and living in a sheltered environment), but for the life of me I couldn’t figure out why my parents splitting up didn’t really upset me like those other girls, and then, one day, it dawned on me. The reason why it didn’t bother me was because my standard of living did not change without my father’s presence in our house. I was still going to have the same opportunities, with the added bonus of getting to go overseas to visit him if I so desired, but that wasn’t the case for many of the others in the group, some of which had completely absentee fathers that didn’t contribute financially to their households and saw their mothers really struggle to make ends meet and send them to school, even with scholarships. It was a real epiphany not only because I got down to the bottom of why they resented me, but because at that moment I understood the meaning of empathy. Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot, I would have resented me too? At that point, I decided that the onus was on me to adjust my attitude because I knew better and was coming from a perspective of relative privilege. It wasn’t going to kill me to be nice to those girls even if they were mean to me. A lot of upwardly mobile blacks aren’t teaching their children empathy when it comes to blacks that aren’t as upwardly mobile as they are. No, you don’t have to teach your children to be everyone’s friend, but you can teach them how to diffuse classist conflicts instead of perpetuating them, and making snide remarks about kids in baggy pants on street corners going to jail is not the way to go about it.

    No matter how much more comfortable you are around other white people, at some point, if you are a PoC, you make concessions to be included among the majority. It could be the decision not to speak up when someone utters a covertly racist remark. It could be the decision not to vocalize frustration about white privilege and being a minority because you don’t want to come across as disagreeable or angry, but rest assured, it will be something. So, if you’re willing to do that for white people, why is it such a chore to do that for blacks? I’ll tell you why. It’s because, a lot of times, people who don’t associate with other blacks, have decided that there is not much to gain from associating with them (blacks) and that it’s more advantageous to endear themselves to white people.

  71. atlasien wrote:

    “I mean, because if you choose to carry around that negativity and bias, doesn’t that make you just as bad as the ignorant people who hurt you in the past?”

    No.

    It’s great if you can move past it. It really is better, I agree. But it’s also asking for practically superhuman reserves. Teasing and bullying is a scale, and on the extreme end, we’re talking physical and emotional scars and PTSD.

    I believe victims have an ethical responsibility not to lash out and give the back the same abuse that they got. But I also don’t believe in blaming victims because they can’t unconditionally forgive and pretend like everything was sweetness and light.

  72. Kara wrote:

    “I believe victims have an ethical responsibility not to lash out and give the back the same abuse that they got. But I also don’t believe in blaming victims because they can’t unconditionally forgive and pretend like everything was sweetness and light.”

    No one said anything about pretending things are “sweetness and light”. Getting over traumatic experiences, like teasing and bullying as a child, is a process. My best friend and I both went through similar alienating experiences growing up from both african-americans and whites. And yeah it would be easy to just throw the baby out with the bath water and characterize both of those communities in a negative light. We both have emotional scars but we don’t let that dictate how we live our lives. It’s called a healing process for a reason.

    I don’t think trying to deal with painful experiences and eventually beginning a healing process requires “superhuman reserves”. People do it everyday.

    People who cause harm, whether emotional or physical, are individuals. And if the victim continues to place blame on the whole community as opposed to those individuals, they will be imprisoned by their own pain and prejudice.

  73. Ron wrote:

    Bravo - to Racialicious - another anti-black american conumdrum and dilemma.

    If anyone person sees some monolithic black group it is because that is what they are trying to see. People will rationalize their belief system one way or another.

    These themes are so old and boring. I think only isolated people of the diaspora think this way. Please get out more and actually have discussions with people.

    Most people of the black diaspora get along with each other. Nigerians marry African Americans, Jamaicans marry African Americans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans marry African Americans, Arabs marry African Americans, East Indians marry African Americans, Brazilians marry African Americans, Ethiopians marry African Americans, etc.

    I think these communities get along really well.

    Marcus Garvey got along with African Americans really well.

    We interact in the same neighborhoods, churches, mosques, sports activities, and places of business.

    The seat of academia allows for a very distorted view of reality.

  74. DivergentDana wrote:

    I went through some of the same stuff… in retrospect, I don’t believe it was about education — there were other smart kids at my school who were quite popular — it was more about my cultural rift that existed between me and other members of my group. It hurt back then, and I’m still recovering, but as an anthropology major, I understand that the maintenance of group cohesion and culture in general is often achieved through punishment of those who violate group norms. Furthermore, I don’t feel that I should use what happened to me as an excuse to throw them under the bus, because that would be the easy way out. I still have some biases, but I’m trying to work through them. I guess being rejected by group members is deemed “the unkindest cut of all” by many, but when I went out into the non-black world, reception was also lukewarm. I wonder if anyone else can relate to the experience of living in a “cultural no-man’s land” where commonalities with both mainstream and black culture end up making you a bit of a stranger in the eyes of both.

  75. atlasien wrote:

    Kara, I’m with you up to a certain point, and then I’d make a 180-degree turn. I actually think communities should be blamed more than individuals. The problem with focusing on individuals is that the same behavior perpetuates itself over and over again. Stop one child from bullying, but if the environment isn’t changed, the next generation just does it again. Sometimes it’s learned behavior from parents, but it can get perpetuated outside the home as well.

    I’ve just seen too much normalizing of this kind of aggression. “It’s not that bad” “toughen up” or “it happens to everyone”. Yes, I agree with the necessity of starting the healing process. I’m just hyperaware that there is just such a mass of wrong sentiment out there for normalizing and perpetuating and putting the weight of the situation on the victim.

    Also, I think an important part of the healing process is taking it up to the community and broader level, moving it beyond the individual and placing what was done to you in context. And that doing that successfully makes you less likely to lash back out.

  76. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    lunanoire - Oh, I see what you mean. I never thought about it so very much. I was pleasantly surprised at Saul Williams by the crowd, but actually I didn’t even know who he was was. My hubby got the tix, so I was surprised by all of it. I was blown away by Saul and his message though, which basically talked about a “space” where we really aren’t judged by skin color. Part of it is eliminating discrimination but part of it is also an inner journey and self-awareness.

    I have to admit though it is hard to surprise me. Growing up I had heavy metal hindu friends, preppy, rich black friends, and all kinds of alleged “exceptions” like that. I guess I am lucky that for me the “exceptions” are “normal”.

  77. BoredKidz! wrote:

    it’s the same with British (South) Asians in the UK, being pressured to act thugg-ish as possible and trying to prove to everybody that you’re just as Asian as anybody else.

    Overseas in India, there’s no pressure to act “brown,” I could be myself and not worry about being called a “sell-out whitey wannabe.”

  78. Dani wrote:

    I never got why some people find it so hard to grasp the concept that if you feel rejected by your own community, of course it’s going to take it’s toll on you.

    There’s a difference between just having a few people make ignorant “oreo” comments about you, and genuinely feeling (even if it’s irrational) like most of the black people you come into contact with will not like you.

    We’re all a product of our experiences. If someone was raised to belive that it’s wrong to act “black”, like Juliana described, it’s not their fault that they were raised that way.

    True, the only way to overcome such a prejudice is to actually get out there and make friends with black people and learn for yourself that we’re not bad people. But if you have a genuine fear that they won’t like you because you “act bougie” or something, that would be hard to do. harder said than done. and unless you’ve been in the situation, how can you judge?

    being raised by adoptive white parents in a white community, i always used to look at black people in black areas and think they were sooo lucky, because they were surrounded by black friends. i actually used to envy them a lot. so the thought of some of those people thinking that i think i’m better just due to something stupid like having a “white” accent, actually makes my blood boil with rage. who the hell are you to tell me how i should or shouldn’t act when you don’t even know anything about me? although I know it’s only a small handful of people who would react that way.

    luckily, i do now have plenty of black friends and it’s absolutely no problem, but i’d be lying if i said that when i was younger i didn’t have a couple of issues with feeling like i wasn’t “correct”.

    Anyway my point is, I wish people would be more openminded and accept that
    1: we all know that people do get rejected and called oreos, race traitors, whatever. we know that it happens. so why do we act like we can’t believe it when victims of this speak out about it?
    2: for some people, being called names or feeling rejected is no big deal and you can dust youself off, but for others, depending on your experiences, it’s a lot more deep rooted than that.

  79. Julie wrote:

    Thank You Thank You Thank You!! As a bi-racial girl, raised in a predominantly white suburb I’ve heard this more than I care to think about. When I was younger, my cousins would ask my why I talked funny, but I like to think that was more childhood ignorance. It seems to come more from my white friends and acquaintances. I had one boy in my dorm tell me what a shame it is that I’ve never been interested in Santeria and don’t identify with African culture! It’s completely frustrating to say the least. I’m an American, and I have absolutely no ties to the Caribbean. Thanks.
    I hate that to many people, to be “black” it seems you have to be “ghetto.” Racial stereotypes be damned! There are plenty of smart, intelligent African Americans as demonstrated by this blog.

  80. lunanoire wrote:

    DivergentDana,
    yes. Even on out-of-state trips for synchronized swimming competitions, the only other black girl was the one on my team.
    Part of the challenge is finding people with “unexpected” interests who challenge and expand cultural expectations instead of accepting the status quo and saying that they’re “not like those other people.”
    Since this site focuses on pop culture, it would be nice to see a wider representation of kids of color in the media beyond the expected cultural norms. Is that in the parenting site?

  81. Angela wrote:

    I’m African-American but my parents also didn’t allow the “ghetto” lifestyle into our house. Ironically enough, considering this piece, many of the black friends I did have were from Africa or the Caribbean. Even though I’m nowhere near ready to have children, I’ve felt the same distress over raising them in this country.

  82. Michelle wrote:

    Dani!

    Co-sign your post.

  83. Kristina wrote:

    I agree so much. My mom’s family is from Guyana, and she never tells me to not act ‘white’, but she discourages me from many ‘black’ things. People always told me how ‘white’ I was. I feel more at home in Canada, because people are more accepting there.

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