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1. “Non-whites” vs. “Visible Minorities” vs. “People of Colour” « Restructure! on 18 Jun 2008 at 9:07 pm

   […] colour is a person who self-identifies as a person of colour. A person of colour may pass as white. Rashida Jones self-identifies as black, and she may self-identify as a person of colour. However, she can pass for white and is not a […]

Comments

1. Aaminah wrote:

   Nice… only thing… I wish she would say she is tri-racial. I mean, it’s her call. But the fact that she isn’t just Black & White, you know… there’s alot of other Brown colors in the spectrum…

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 9:27 am ¶

2. Anonymiss wrote:

   Props. I applaud her for not allowing anyone to label her.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 9:56 am ¶

3. melanie wrote:

   The fact is people of any race - including mixed race - judge you by how you look and Rashida does not look “black”. Sorry, but mixed or not, your experience is influenced by your look. Do Hollywood casting directors read her as “black?” Did the Boston Public read her as “black?” About as “black” as Nicole Richie and she uses that. If you don’t have the “typical” mixed look, mixed folks aren’t exactly racing to claim you either unless your skin is light and you have “non-black” features.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 10:02 am ¶

4. bradski wrote:

   Jones says that she is culturally black. What’s so wrong with that? Let’s be honest. Did Adam Clayton Powell, W.E.B. Dubois, or Rosa Parks look like they just immigrate directly from Sub-Saharan Africa? No.

   But did they all experience the boot heel of racism? Yep.

   I’m “African-American” but I’m of African, Native American, and European ancestry. I have light brown skin, loose curly hair, high cheek bones, and almond shaped eyes. A lot of times I’m asked “what are you?” Some days people assume I’m Indian, Puerto Rican, African-American, or just don’t know.

   Growing up, however, the kids in school had no problem calling me nigger, and my sister who has yellow-brown skin, thin nose and straight hair was called nigger.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 10:30 am ¶

5. nola wrote:

   @ Melanie
   Maybe Rashida doesn’t “look” black to you - but she is. While I can agree that lighter skinned people will experience race differently than those with darker skin. I don’t believe it’s fair to discredit her self identity.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:11 am ¶

6. melanie wrote:

   Bradski,

   Having “light brown skin, loose curly hair, high cheek bones, and almond shaped eyes” and being asked “what are you?” means that you do not look white and are not automatically presumed to be white.

   A Halle Berry, Tiger Woods or a Sophie Okenedo (white Jewish mother) or a Mel B. (white mother) walking down the street may get “what are you?” but they would never be assumed as white first like a Rashida Jones, a Wentworth Miller or an Adam Clayton Powell.

   Adam Clayton Powell, given the times in which he lived and his family background chose to be black. However, before he was well-known, he often passed for white because he LOOKED white. Once he TOLD people about his heritage, he was treated as black. But like many people who, though black identified, looked white, Adam Clayton Powell used his white looks (like Walter Williams) to gain access to certain circles and things that would eventually benefit black people.

   White looking “black” people have to tell people that they are “black” to be called nigger - and even to experience garden variety racism. See Toi Derricote’s “The Black Notebooks”. She is a white looking “black” woman who tells of going to look at houses first - without her black looking husband - for the sake of getting better deals. This was in the 1970s/80s.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:17 am ¶

7. melanie wrote:

   @nola

   Actually Rashida is not black - Have you seen her white mother Peggy Lipton? Are you applying the dreaded “one-drop rule?”

   I am not discrediting her identity. I am just pointing out the double-standards. One minute you’re wrong if you called a mixed person black and the next minute you’re wrong because you’re not acknowledging their mixed heritage.

   And, as you pointed out, lighter skinned people will experience race differently than those with darker skin so why does she constantly point out that African-Americans “shunned” her for “not being black enough?” Apparently she’s had no such problems with white people - most of whom (unless they know her father is Quincy Jones) probably assumed that she was “white”.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:24 am ¶

8. Lyonside wrote:

   >If you don’t have the “typical” mixed look, mixed folks aren’t exactly racing to claim you either unless your skin is light and you have “non-black” features.

   Really, Melanie? Then you haven’t been hanging out with the right kinds of mixed folks. The ones I know, the one I AM, know that “mixed” does not mean monolithic, whether we’re talking about physical features, ethnic heritages, or personal experiences. Self definition is the CORE of mixed identity. If we dont’ respect that, we don’t respect ourselves.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:32 am ¶

9. Lyonside wrote:

   >One minute you’re wrong if you called a mixed person black and the next minute you’re wrong because you’re not acknowledging their mixed heritage.

   No, it’s about respecting the right of the individual to culturally self-identify. In Rashida Jones’s case, she self-identifies culturally as black/African-American, and whatever her physical appearance, she gets to do that. I personally draw the line if I know that that identity changes opportunistically, rather than for internal reasons. But at the end of the day I have to respect that.

   At the same time, I identify as black/white biracial (I clarify since I never assume that mied or biracial means black/white), with my 6 or so known ethnic groups as guides to that identity. Culturally I claim neither and both of my “racial” groups, as defined by American society… I can’t claim full acceptance in either circles, generally, and don’t really want to.

   Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:44 am ¶

10. Lyonside wrote:

    Sorry - final sentence was cut off. Should read:

    But at the end of the day, if I want the right to self-identify, then I have to respect the rights for others to self-identify. So long as everyone’s being personally honest, meaning they’ve done some introspection and know where they’re coming from and what it means to them, I don’t get to redefine someone else to fit my own world view.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:47 am ¶

11. dnA wrote:

    Melanie,

    Acknowledging she experiences race differently because of how she looks doesn’t make her not black, she’s black, she’s just other things too. There’s nothing really complicated about that, and the flipside of the one drop rule is people who arbitrarily decide that someone’s cultural experience is entirely negated by how they look.

    As for her having “no such problems with white people,” where did you get that from? Because she didn’t talk about it in that particular interview? Please. Even if you dont’ look “black” you’re still coming from a completely different cultural context, and once white people find out they treat you different anyway.

    By the way, once we start arbitrarily eliminating light skinned black folks from the race, we’re going to lose a lot of people: Malcolm (that red hair and light skin!) Huey (damn litebrite) Angela (who does she think she is?) August (pink ass mofo) Walter Mosely (pretty high yaller there buddy) Jean Toomer (better put CANE back in the white man’s literary canon) W.E.B Dubois (in garvey’s words, a mulatto monstrosity)

    Hey I could do this all day. You know what? I bet Rashida could too.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:55 am ¶

12. erica wrote:

    First off “bi” means two so no she is not biracial. Mixed would be a better title. People treat you how THEY think you look….I can pass for white but my brother does not (yes we have the same parents, genes are tricky things) and as adults when people see we have the same last name they think we are married not brother and sister. Humans have a long way to go before we stop judging by color only.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 11:58 am ¶

13. Rob wrote:

    What about people that are 1/32 black? Can they still be 100% black?

    That’s why I laugh when the blonde kid from Saved by the Bell was labeled as part Asian just because he’s like 1/6 or something Filipino.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:01 pm ¶

14. team wrote:

    LMAO @ dnA’s comment! Wow.

    –CVK

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:16 pm ¶

15. stickinthemud wrote:

    i hate the “one day we’ll all look like this line.” i get kind of offended that people are hype for a day when my phenotype will be bred out of existence. Why do people always say that? Is that even genetically possible? I’m sure Jones didn’t mean it so literally, but it annoys me anyway.

    Otherwise I pretty much agree with what she said.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:27 pm ¶

16. whatever15 wrote:

    I’m sorry to burst someone’s bubble but humans have been “mixed” for a long time already. No one feature belongs to a specific ethnicity. More like different societies and environments have promoted certain phenotypes to be more prevalent in different groups.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:35 pm ¶

17. Big Man wrote:

    Does Rashida identify as black?

    I wasn’s exactly sure from the snippet posted? She said she was pursuing her black cultural identity, but also said she has all these other identities that she can fall back on when being “black” is a drag.

    I”m referencing this exchange:

    “WH: Healing because the African-American crowd shunned you for “not being black enough,” right?

    RJ: Yeah. I’m lucky because I have so many clashing cultural, racial things going on: black, Jewish, Irish, Portuguese, Cherokee. I can float and be part of any community I want.”

    So, she appears to identify as whatever culture suits her fancy at any given moment. That’s cool, she has that option. I just wondered why folks were assuming she automatically identified as black in every situation.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:38 pm ¶

18. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Re Rashida’s “I can float and be part of any community I want”: I don’t think her Cherokee blood would give her any special entré into a Cherokee community. Unless she was raised in the community, she’d be treated like an outsider.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 12:54 pm ¶

19. R wrote:

    @ Rob: Mark-Paul Gosselaar (Zack from Saved by the Bell) is Dutch and Indonesian. Maybe his Indonesian mom is mixed, but regardless, from where I sit, he’s allowed to claim his mixed heritage.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:00 pm ¶

20. Alston wrote:

    What about the bi/multicultural people as opposed to the bi/multiracial people? Is their self-identification different from the multiracials? Is it viewed differently? For example, there are many “racially” black and Asian people raised their entire lives in white cultural communities. They “act white”. Do they get to claim bi-culturalism? Does it even matter?

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:03 pm ¶

21. dnA wrote:

    “One Day People will all look like you.”

    That’s something parents tell their mixed kids so they don’t feel bad about being different. My mama used to say it to me all the time. I wouldn’t take it too seriously.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:06 pm ¶

22. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @ Big Man–Rashida Jones does identify as black. Her next sentence (after the one you pulled) states: “The thing is, I do identify with being black…”

    And I love her cincher second half of the sentence: “…and if people don’t identify me that way that’s their issue.” To me, ’nuff said.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:07 pm ¶

23. melanie wrote:

    Lyonside said: No, it’s about respecting the right of the individual to culturally self-identify. In Rashida Jones’s case, she self-identifies culturally as black/African-American, and whatever her physical appearance, she gets to do that.

    –

    I made the point that White looking “black” people have to tell people that they are “black” to get a taste of being treated differently because of race - and that is true whether or not they identify culturally as black or not.

    I respect the “right of the individual to culturally self-identify” but I am also calling bullshit on the double standards. Rashida Jones has mentioned in several interviews that she was “shunned” by blacks - and even turned down by an all-black sorority at Harvard. I find that VERY hard to believe since all-black sororities began with many “black” women that looked “white”. Since when are black sororities turning down rich daughters of black musical legends because of skin color?

    Lyonside, you also said “I personally draw the line if I know that that identity changes opportunistically, rather than for internal reasons. ” Well, that is the exact impression that I get from Rashida Jones - and her sorority tale is just one of the reasons why.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:18 pm ¶

24. Kandee wrote:

    She sounds like she wants to discover her cultural identity - especially since her father is a prominent figure in the AA community, and that is a good thing. I just don’t think that one can join any group because they ‘have it in them’. If the one-drop rule weren’t still in effect, would we really be hard pressed to have her identify one way or the other? With that being said, she can identify however she wants, but not everyone will agree with it. The point is, she has privilege that others in the black community don’t. We all have to confront our privilege. It sounds to me like she’s agreeing to only blame black people for not accepting her rather than identifying that denying her access to privilege is what might make some people reject her claims to blackness. It’s just like a rich kid trying his hardest to show he identifies with poverty instead of acknowledging that he’s had a cushion that others did not. That changes things.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶

25. Alston wrote:

    @melanie: Colorism within racial groups plays out very much like racism between different groups. I could totally see an all-black sorority turning her down based on colour. They have an image to uphold.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:31 pm ¶

26. dnA wrote:

    I respect the “right of the individual to culturally self-identify” but I am also calling bullshit on the double standards. Rashida Jones has mentioned in several interviews that she was “shunned” by blacks - and even turned down by an all-black sorority at Harvard. I find that VERY hard to believe since all-black sororities began with many “black” women that looked “white”. Since when are black sororities turning down rich daughters of black musical legends because of skin color?

    I find it very hard to believe that you find that very hard to believe, if only because black folks of all shades have to go through the absurd tests of authenticity all the time.

    But perhaps more puzzling is the fact that you argue that she has no idea what it feels like to be a darker skinned person, but you have no problem deciding what her experience is or is not.

    I feel you on mixed folks who identify as a matter of convenience, but I don’t hear Rashida Jones doing that. I hear someone who lives on the color line, struggling with finding her place, and that’s something I understand.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:34 pm ¶

27. whatever15 wrote:

    Maybe people assume automatically that they’re not going to be accepted by white people, so when not accepted by a minority group it comes out more hurtful?

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:36 pm ¶

28. melanie wrote:

    dnA said: Acknowledging she experiences race differently because of how she looks doesn’t make her not black, she’s black, she’s just other things too. There’s nothing really complicated about that, and the flipside of the one drop rule is people who arbitrarily decide that someone’s cultural experience is entirely negated by how they look.

    —

    I am not “arbitrarily deciding that someone’s cultural experience is negated by how they look.” You can’t tell me that you don’t believe that someone’s cultural experience won’t vary based on their looks no matter how they identify. There have been countless studies that show things like light-skinned blacks faring better than dark-skinned blacks educationally and economically and, outside of race, “good looking” people and even taller people making more money and faring better socially than their counterparts. Let’s not pretend that the Rashida Joneses of the world are having the same experiences as the India Aries.

    dnA: As for her having “no such problems with white people,” where did you get that from? Because she didn’t talk about it in that particular interview? Please.

    –
    No, she has said the same things in several interviews. She also claims that an all-black sorority (at Harvard no less) turned her down over her skin color. Easily the first time in history all-black sororities have turned down rich “light-skinned black women”.

    dnA: By the way, once we start arbitrarily eliminating light skinned black folks from the race, we’re going to lose a lot of people: Malcolm (that red hair and light skin!) Huey (damn litebrite) Angela (who does she think she is?) August (pink ass mofo) Walter Mosely (pretty high yaller there buddy) Jean Toomer (better put CANE back in the white man’s literary canon) W.E.B Dubois (in garvey’s words, a mulatto monstrosity)

    –

    Only two of your historical examples is actually “biracial” and not a “light-skinned black person” with two black parents. I thought the point was that biracial, tri-racial people are not limited to one race (unless, of course, it is convenient for them.)

    Walter Mosley, like most alleged “too black too strong” people who identify first and foremost as “black” (even with a white Jewish mother) was married to a white woman for several years. Clearly shoring up his black revolutionary bona fides.

    August (pink ass mofo) married a Latina and his Black treasure trove is now out of black hands. “Black” empowerment indeed.

    Jean Toomer ELIMINATED HIMSELF from the black race. He purposely chose to leave and “pass” due to the prejudice of his day.

    In this day and age, the WEB DuBoises, the Booker T. Washingtons (white father) and the Frederick Douglases (white father) of the world would be pressured to NOT identify as only black - right here on Racialicious and other sites. The only reason they did was because of the rigorously enforced “one drop rule”.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:43 pm ¶

29. melanie wrote:

    dnA: I find it very hard to believe that you find that very hard to believe, if only because black folks of all shades have to go through the absurd tests of authenticity all the time.

    But perhaps more puzzling is the fact that you argue that she has no idea what it feels like to be a darker skinned person, but you have no problem deciding what her experience is or is not.
    —

    I am not “deciding” what her experience is or not. There are countless stories from lighter-skinned people (like Toi Derricote for example) giving examples of how their experiences (often preferential treatment in house hunting, jobs) is different from darker-skinned people. I don’t have to “decide” anything.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:50 pm ¶

30. cacy wrote:

    I had this discussion with folks over at Rod.2.0 only we were talking about asexuality.

    Jones can be anything she wants to be because she is the creator of her own identity. Just because we know who her parents are or what she looks like doesn’t mean we should impose or project onto her what or who we want her to be. We have no right to do that; if we do then we’re no different from fascists.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 1:58 pm ¶

31. dnA wrote:

    I am not “arbitrarily deciding that someone’s cultural experience is negated by how they look.” You can’t tell me that you don’t believe that someone’s cultural experience won’t vary based on their looks no matter how they identify. There have been countless studies that show things like light-skinned blacks faring better than dark-skinned blacks educationally and economically and, outside of race, “good looking” people and even taller people making more money and faring better socially than their counterparts. Let’s not pretend that the Rashida Joneses of the world are having the same experiences as the India Aries.

    I would never suggest that light skinned people and darkskinned people have the same experience. I would argue that there is no one authentic black experience, and that it’s important to respect that just because hers is not India Arie’s, it is no less valid. It is, in a word, different.

    Only two of your historical examples is actually “biracial” and not a “light-skinned black person” with two black parents. I thought the point was that biracial, tri-racial people are not limited to one race (unless, of course, it is convenient for them.)

    Walter Mosley, like most alleged “too black too strong” people who identify first and foremost as “black” (even with a white Jewish mother) was married to a white woman for several years. Clearly shoring up his black revolutionary bona fides.

    August (pink ass mofo) married a Latina and his Black treasure trove is now out of black hands. “Black” empowerment indeed.

    Jean Toomer ELIMINATED HIMSELF from the black race. He purposely chose to leave and “pass” due to the prejudice of his day.

    There is nothing convenient about respecting the gifts and sacrifices of your family when everyone is telling you to pretend that they don’t exist, or telling you your pain or experience is invalid.

    Jean Toomer passed…during his life. History wasn’t as kind. He’s black.

    I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be part of a “revolution” where your authenticity is determined by whether or not you choose to love someone based on their skin color. August Wilson was one of the greatest American playwrights who ever lived, and he is black. His “treasure trove,” rather than being out of black hands, is a gift to black actors, writers, and critics that will last for centuries.

    As for “light skinned with two black parents” so folks who are light but have two black parents are exempt from the “can’t identify as black if you’re light” rule? Corey Booker and Adam Clayton Powell would be shocked.

    In this day and age, the WEB DuBoises, the Booker T. Washingtons (white father) and the Frederick Douglases (white father) of the world would be pressured to NOT identify as only black - right here on Racialicious and other sites. The only reason they did was because of the rigorously enforced “one drop rule”.

    And yet, here are the Corey Bookers, dnAs and Rashida Joneses of the world, identifying as black.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:00 pm ¶

32. gatamala wrote:

    i hate the “one day we’ll all look like this line.” i get kind of offended that people are hype for a day when my phenotype will be bred out of existence. Why do people always say that? Is that even genetically possible? I’m sure Jones didn’t mean it so literally, but it annoys me anyway.

    I do too

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:00 pm ¶

33. dnA wrote:

    I am not “deciding” what her experience is or not. There are countless stories from lighter-skinned people (like Toi Derricote for example) giving examples of how their experiences (often preferential treatment in house hunting, jobs) is different from darker-skinned people. I don’t have to “decide” anything.

    You’ve “decided” that there’s nothing inherently unique or difficult about being light skinned, and that all it is is privilege. There is that, certainly, but there’s alot more to it than that.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:01 pm ¶

34. NancyP wrote:

    In a significant way she’d be black / biracial even without the tedious “one drop” business (eg, if adopted from rural Russia from parents whose lineages have never left the area to go to the Big City) - her social father is black. And I think it entirely appropriate for her to honor her father by identifying as black. Yes, her experience differs from standard, since she is able to pass. But that’s another issue discussed above.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:06 pm ¶

35. deb wrote:

    Growing up, however, the kids in school had no problem calling me nigger, and my sister who has yellow-brown skin, thin nose and straight hair was called nigger.

    I’ve been watching African American Lives I for the past few weeks and Quincy Jones was one of the celebrity subjects.

    According to the results of his “admixture” test he had 34% European ancestry. And I think that was on his fathers side alone. I doubt there’s a lot of color on Peggy Lipton’s side.

    Anyway, one of the doctors involved in genetic testing stated that tests show that 3 out of 10 African American men have European y-chromosome lineages. But he had to laugh because at the same time at the same time “when the cops are pulling you over this y-chromosome’s not gonna help.”

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:12 pm ¶

36. melanie wrote:

    dnA: You’ve “decided” that there’s nothing inherently unique or difficult about being light skinned, and that all it is is privilege. There is that, certainly, but there’s alot more to it than that.
    –
    I am not saying that there is nothing “inherently unique or difficult” about being light-skinned or that it is all privilege. But it is dishonest to try and pretend that the privilege is not there. And there certainly is no “one authentic black experience”. Especially for people who do not look black.

    You might find this post - by a “light-skinned black woman” interesting. She mentions the Rashida/sorority story among other things.

    http://blacksnob.blogspot.com/2008/03/incognegro-v-rashida-jones.html

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:17 pm ¶

37. melanie wrote:

    dnA: His “treasure trove,” rather than being out of black hands, is a gift to black actors, writers, and critics that will last for centuries.
    –

    I say that his treasure trove is not only a gift to black actors, writers and critics that will last for centuries - it is also out of black hands as in black control (economically).

    dnA: As for “light skinned with two black parents” so folks who are light but have two black parents are exempt from the “can’t identify as black if you’re light” rule? Corey Booker and Adam Clayton Powell would be shocked.
    –

    No, I am making the distinction since many biracial people (even if you don’t) find it insulting to solely be identified as black.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:30 pm ¶

38. Brie wrote:

    My problem is that while she gets to ‘float’ her father, from whom I assume the Cherokee, Black, and possibly the Portuguese and Irish are derived is only ever concieved of as black. As a black american, I would never describe myself as anything other than black, because I realize that many people claim alternative identies for all the wrong reasons. However, is it fair that you can claim other things if you ‘look different’ or if you can demonstrate a parent that looks different? We, as a community, loose out on something by continuing the one drop rule. I have nothing but pride for being black, however, I am troubled by the lack of consistency–especially in a society where ‘mixness’ is seen as justification for why people are beautiful/smart/sucessful. If the media wants to continuously bring up how Alicia Keys is biracial, and slip up and claim that Vanessa Williams is too (you’d be surprised at how many whites assume she is), and use that fact to justify their beauty/fame/sucess, then I want all of our interracial laudry out on the street. If they wanna talk about how Barack Obama is not ‘really black’ then lets talk about the white blood that runs through the veins of every black american criminal in the Amrican “justice” system.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:32 pm ¶

39. Brie wrote:

    Im sorry about my poor comma usuage. I am in a bit of a hurry

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:33 pm ¶

40. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    I’m about the blow the whistle on this conversation.

    Even though we are unearthing some good points - and revealing attitudes that some people hold toward one another - I would like to caution everyone that their personal experience is not enough evidence to make decisions about Rashida Jones’ life. I posted a snippet of an interview. That’s all.

    Also, Melanie, please be cognizant of what kind of space you are in. Before we were Racialicious, we were Mixed Media Watch - a website that tracked representations of mixed people and interracial relationships in the media. The site’s founder, Carmen is biracial, as are many of our readers.

    And while I am not mixed, my best friend is. And you may not realize how hurtful your remarks are to someone who actively acknowledges their black heritage - even if they do not necessarily “look black.”

    Black-Americans have a long history with colorism and privilege and passing - but it isn’t okay to treat our biracial and light-skinned brethren like they need to constantly “prove” their blackness.

    You may be speaking from a place where you know biracial perople who find it “insulting to be solely identified as black.”

    I speak from a place where I’ve seen my friends hurt time and time again because someone of their own community choose to hamfistedly challenge a lifetime of identity based on the color of skin or texture of hair.

    Please be very careful with your words.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:38 pm ¶

41. melanie wrote:

    I just wanted to add this before I leave the office. Kandee said this earlier much better than I have and I wanted to put it out there again.

    With that being said, she can identify however she wants, but not everyone will agree with it. The point is, she has privilege that others in the black community don’t. We all have to confront our privilege. It sounds to me like she’s agreeing to only blame black people for not accepting her rather than identifying that denying her access to privilege is what might make some people reject her claims to blackness. It’s just like a rich kid trying his hardest to show he identifies with poverty instead of acknowledging that he’s had a cushion that others did not. That changes things.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:39 pm ¶

42. miss girl wrote:

    melanie, what’s your point? rashida, like many mixed folk, is navigating different identities for whatever reasons - and all the meanwhile, she has privilege and she doesn’t have privilege. that’s a typical right of passage for anyone, let alone mixed people. however, i do understand where you’re coming from - when i hear a person claiming 1/16th of any color, it ruffles me up - there ARE issues of authenticity, privilege, historical context, and shared pain. but then i call bullshit on myself because who am i to draw the line at what is real or imagined? how many “authentic” looking asians have looked at *me*, a girl with “slanted” eyes, brown hair and a mess of freckles and become ruffled themselves? thank god for racialicious.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:42 pm ¶

43. melanie wrote:

    La Toya,

    I have been reading Racialicious since the days of Mixed Media Watch, so I know what type of website it is.

    I have several mixed people in my family and I am not saying anything to be hurtful, I am stating my opinion that people who do not “look black” - fair or not - will not have the same experience as people who do - and they will have certain privileges. The history of colorism and intra-racism in Black America bares that out.

    And I am certainly not treating “our biracial and light-skinned brethren like they need to constantly “prove” their blackness”. I am only saying let’s not pretend there is no difference in the experiences.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 2:45 pm ¶

44. Eva wrote:

    I may be in the minority here but melanie has a point. I don’t think she is stating that fairer skinned black people aren’t really black, just that experiences are different, that is real life. I think I saw a study that (male) high ranking officers in the US Army and Air Force were nearly all attractive.

    I am light skinned, I have friends of all colors and when we are out together, I can see the difference in treatment. In fact when I’m out with my mother, who looks like Rashida Jones, it’s quite interesting because most people think she’s white and then they look at me, who looks kind of like Shari Belafonte and get confused.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 3:02 pm ¶

45. Tasha wrote:

    I also think Melanie has a point being mixed/looking mixed is definitely a different experience…but ironically her very posting is making the point that Rashida makes in her interview regarding acceptance in the black community.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 3:58 pm ¶

46. kjalepepper wrote:

    People experience race/ethnicity/culture in many different contexts.

    First, as we grow up, we are raised in our families, which often have their own peculiar family culture and identity. I happen to be half Cuban, half white, and that mix led to an interesting tension while growing up. Most of my personal issues of identity stem from this experience.

    We will then interact with the people in their communities, from school to work to church to the neighborhood. This experience is different for every person. I may be Cuban, but since I didn’t speak Spanish, most of my friends (in LA while I was growing up) didn’t really see me as Latina. It is different depending on where I am and whom I’m with, but people’s judgments are largely based on how I act and look.

    Then there are our experiences with strangers, when we walk down the street or walk into a store, etc. People’s judgments then are often based on our looks.

    I know I’m really generalizing, but I think it is important to notice that our racial and ethnic identities can be based on a variety of experiences. Those experiences may not be uniform, particularly for people of mixed heritage.

    We are constantly moving in different spheres, and although experience in one sphere will affect or have repercussions in the other spheres, we can’t always say how those experiences combine to make up another person’s identity.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 4:28 pm ¶

47. mr guy wrote:

    I agree with the people who say you have different experiences depending how you look.Though I believe that doesn’t mean I have a better or worse experience than that person on an individual level however.I used to think that, until I met other people and they talked about their life.I assumed a lot of things and ending up being wrong.

    P.S.

    This isn’t targeted to anyone but something I started noticed reading other places on the ‘net.Sometimes in left wing politics, it seems like people throw around the term privileged to the point where it’s overused loosing it’s meaning, or to shut someone up who’s trying to make a point that’s different from them.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 5:56 pm ¶

48. deb wrote:

    We are constantly moving in different spheres, and although experience in one sphere will affect or have repercussions in the other spheres, we can’t always say how those experiences combine to make up another person’s identity.

    “Life on the Color Line: The True Story of a White Boy Who Discovered He Was Black” is one of my favorite books ever! If there’s a prize for whitest African-American-looking man, author Gregory Williams wins it hands down.

    His father “Buster” was a biracial man who passed as Italian or Greek who married a white woman–Gregory’s mother. The family lives as white until Buster’s drinking causes hardships. The family becomes dysfunctional and the wife leaves taking two of their four children with her. Gregory and his brother Mike are left with their father who tells them that they will now have to live as colored boys. Gregory practically becomes black overnight.

    The author was a guest speaker in a literature class I took some years ago. When a white female student asked him how he identified, without hesitation he answered that he considers himself to be African American.

    No where in the book does he say why he chooses to identify the way he does, but after reading it, I think it’s crystal clear.

    (He said the Suzanne de Passe was working on a screen adaptation. I hope the idea wasn’t scrapped.)

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 6:00 pm ¶

49. Barbara B. wrote:

    Kjalpepper said-
    “I happen to be half Cuban, half white, and that mix led to an interesting tension while growing up. ”

    What do you mean, “half Cuban, half white”?

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 6:18 pm ¶

50. wendi muse wrote:

    this is a bit of a side note, but i wonder how her decision to identify affects the roles she takes as an actress, if at all.

    for example, she plays a woman of italian descent on the show The Office and the former love interest of one of the white main characters, Jim. I’ve always wondered whether or not they made her character white, of Italian descent, as to not offend audiences or if they wrote the role for a white woman initially, Rashida got it, and they figured Italian was the easiest thing to call her without confusing people…

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 6:23 pm ¶

51. wendi muse wrote:

    also, i agree with brie in the sense that i think america needs to take the time out to acknowledge the heavy duty racial mixing going on within the category “black,” and to be more specific, african american. b/c calling someone biracial, if he or she is born to one black parent and one white parent, could technically be a misnomer, as many people are not 100% monoracial (well, ok no one is, let’s be honest, here…race is a category we created for political reasons way back in the day). for example, i was born to two “black”-identified parents, though one of those parents was born with blonde hair and green eyes and one parent’s mother looks like the stereotypical representation of native american women in the media. let’s be honest with ourselves and admit that “black” is a category, but it’s one within which there are several parts. our country treats blackness as a static category b/c it doesn’t want to admit to our founders having participated in any forced sexual misconduct with their slaves and certainly doesn’t want to admit to any sorts of unions that may have been (gasp) by the choice of both participants. after all, blacks were (are?) seen as untouchables then, so it would be retroactive guilt by association if we started telling the truth and realizing that in many cases, black means “multiracial” just as much as it does for someone who was born to parents of “different” races.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 6:30 pm ¶

52. Michelle wrote:

    I think that it is very important, especially on this blog, to give Jean Toomer his proper due.

    Jean Toomer was one of the first people to argue for a mixed/biracial/triracial identity, separate from being Black. He is, if you will, the father of the entire nomenclature movement. He might have been accused of passing is his day and age, but he didn’t consider it passing. He felt that he was just as much White as he was Black and that he, and only he, had the right to name his identity. Unfortunately, he was years ahead of his time. Now, of course, he would have a voice and a following. But, seventy five years ago, he didn’t have any choices. He fought very hard so that biracial people could have choices now.

    I would also like to say that I can’t imagine a world where the daughter of Quincy Jones would be turned away from an all Black sorority at an all White school. As someone who knows that world in and out, it just would not happen. I should rephrase, they would never, ever turn her down for being too light. Please. Are you kidding me? Anyone who thinks that is possible has never experienced Black greek life.

    Lastly, it should be noted that I do think it is fair to say that veiled within the rhetoric of biraciality is the idea that since “they” look “different” it shapes their identity in a vastly different way than “other” “Black” people. I can say that it is a fair critique of the biracial movement to call into question the idea of phenotype and how strong it plays into who is and who is not biracial and why. There are many people out there who are Biracial, who look Black, or Asian, or Hispanic. They don’t always get the hype around them (from Biracial people) because they don’t support the notion of what Biraciality looks like. And I think that is really important to discuss.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 6:37 pm ¶

53. kjalepepper wrote:

    Barbara B. wrote:

    Kjalpepper said-
    “I happen to be half Cuban, half white, and that mix led to an interesting tension while growing up. ”

    What do you mean, “half Cuban, half white”?

    –

    My dad is Cuban and my mother is white, so I have generally seen myself as ethnically mixed.

    There has been a bit of a culture clash (and not always in the best of ways).

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 9:07 pm ¶

54. Nadra wrote:

    Kjalepepper, I think what she means is that your father could be a Cuban of African descent, European descent, indigenous American descent or a mixture of all three and so on. Therefore, saying you’re half-Cuban is vague. Hope that helps.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 9:34 pm ¶

55. kjalepepper wrote:

    Ohhhhh, I see. *smacks head*

    My father is actually a mix of Cuban (European descent, mostly likely Spanish) and Dominican (descent unknown).

    My mother is White (Anglo-Saxon for the most part, but also Danish, Irish, and French).

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 9:42 pm ¶

56. michael wrote:

    Saying your half cuban is vague indeed.

    Cameron Diaz is half cuban….

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 10:18 pm ¶

57. kjalepepper wrote:

    I was thinking more on a cultural perspective than anything else, but I see what you mean by vague.

    Posted 17 Apr 2008 at 10:35 pm ¶

58. jayspark wrote:

    am i the onyl one offeneded by Quincys daughter’s comment! ?!?!

    as soon as i saw her i automatically assumed she was shite! and most prob every other person she meets assumes the same thing!!!

    i definitely agreee with melanies comment: your experience is influenced by your look.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 2:33 am ¶

59. islandgirl550 wrote:

    @ Wendi -
    “let’s be honest with ourselves and admit that “black” is a category, but it’s one within which there are several parts. our country treats blackness as a static category b/c it doesn’t want to admit to our founders having participated in any forced sexual misconduct with their slaves and certainly doesn’t want to admit to any sorts of unions that may have been (gasp) by the choice of both participants.”

    I agree with you here. “Black” is not static and most if not all blacks born in the Americas are mixed, but because we don’t show it sometimes or like you said, people don’t want to admit how we got that way, something just gets lost.

    This became apparent for me at my father’s funeral when his entire Afro-Cuban family showed up and I was standing next to my blond hair, green-eyed, black identified aunt. No one could believe that my father and his sister had the same parents.

    I am dark-skinned like my father and have the entire spectrum of colors in my family. We all have the same features but not the same phenotype. I get so exhausted trying to explain this so I don’t. Sometimes I feel mainstream American doesn’t believe alibaster skin can come from a jet black woman.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 2:38 am ¶

60. Mary wrote:

    But where did Rashida Jones actually CLAIM her experience is exactly like that of a darker-skinned black woman?

    Maybe she has done this in other interviews, I honestly don’t know, but it seems to me like some people are putting words in her mouth.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 8:07 am ¶

61. Pheno09 wrote:

    I give her props for being fierce and for confronting the issue and for having her own strong opinion on it. She held her own. What I applaud is that she looks white and everyone else, including the person questioning her are confused as to why she wouldn’t just ‘pass’, it’s like everyone is saying/thinking ‘Why in the heavens would you want people to know, your anything but white’. What will be interesting is how far she takes her race politics, will she play white women like Jennifer Beals or will she she remain true to her cultural identity and play Mixed race women. If she does choose to play mixed women, then again, good on her…she’ll be helping to change the perception that all mixed women are tanned/curly heads. And whilst I may look how most people have come to expect a mixed woman to look, I am am very glad for women like her and miss Beals who challenge what it means to be and look mixed race. Many kudos to her.
    I also identify with those of you who mention being mistook for many other races, but imagine how it must feel to be classed as just 1 race, all the time, by looks alone. Is what this lady experiencing a completely different situation to what we have experienced? Is there a difference to consistently being confused for whit & that of being mistaken for any other brown ‘exotic’ race?

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 10:01 am ¶

62. Pheno09 wrote:

    ‘He felt that he was just as much White as he was Black and that he, and only he, had the right to name his identity’ and that is a continuing problem within the mixed race community, that other races, particularly whites/blacks feel they have the utmost authority to racial categorise us. And personally it frustrates the hell outa me.

    Also, off topic, I wish mixed media would come back. I understand this blog is about all races and isms. But I particularly loved mixed media for ‘tracking mixed race individuals representations in the media’ I liked that it dealt with mixed race issues exclusively…it just seems that being mixed people have this expectation that ‘oh they can’t be racists or exclusionary’ and while I’m not askin for racism, it just feels like someone gave into the whole ‘we gotta be rainbow tribes’ now. I also dislike the name of this blog, it says what exactly? So yet again, I gotta do a ’search’ and shift through junk yards of stuff just to find articles that talk about mixed race people. It’s like come black history month, I gotta get a spy glass just to find out what achievements mixed folk have made, because we all get clumped together with other races.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 10:07 am ¶

63. I wrote:

    hmm…

    I think that “Melanie” is posting under several different names.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 11:39 am ¶

64. Nadra wrote:

    Pheno09, actually Jennifer Beals has played a mixed-race woman on more than one occasion. The Black Snob did a thorough analysis of her career back in January. The link is below:

    http://blacksnob.blogspot.com/2008/01/incognegro-iv-jennifer-beals.html

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 12:15 pm ¶

65. andre wrote:

    Sorry, but bull. This girl isnt black and I’ll tell you why. Because she isn;t seen as black. Maybe she grew up culturally as Afro-American, but either way, she looks white to me. And she most definitely looks white to others. She can easily reap the benefits of being a white person while sticking to her cultural heritage as a black person. Many black people can’t do that , because of their skin color. So I wouldn’t put her in the black race. She’s white to me, and she’s white if I saw her on the street corner. Remember race isn’t a cultural thing, its political. Politically, she is white. Good for her for sticking to her culture. Many people in her position would sell out and not claim to be Afro-American origin. But still, I think she just wants to seem cool to be Afro-American while looking like the beautiful ‘white’ girl everyone desires.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 12:34 pm ¶

66. melanie wrote:

    @I - (of MixedChicks.net - nice hair products… do I have to stop buying your stuff now?)

    I am not posting under different names. Perhaps I am not the only one with a certain opinion?

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶

67. Anonymous wrote:

    andre,

    Rashida Jones looks biracial.

    She is NOT black only and she is NOT white only — she is BOTH.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 12:52 pm ¶

68. andre wrote:

    Brie:
    ‘If the media wants to continuously bring up how Alicia Keys is biracial, and slip up and claim that Vanessa Williams is too (you’d be surprised at how many whites assume she is), and use that fact to justify their beauty/fame/sucess, then I want all of our interracial laudry out on the street. If they wanna talk about how Barack Obama is not ‘really black’ then lets talk about the white blood that runs through the veins of every black american criminal in the Amrican “justice” system.’

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 1:06 pm ¶

69. Anonymous wrote:

    oh andre — you’ve just gotta read this.

    http://www.politopics.com/2008/04/all-mixed-up.html

    it appears our mixed-race generation doesn’t really care what your personal issues are with us.

    btw, ms. jones is so right!

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 1:18 pm ¶

70. Pheno09 wrote:

    Nadra, thank you very much for that Link, I wasn’t aware miss beals had played a mixed woman before. My mistake, I had only seen her in roles as white women, I wonder how that meel knowingthat she is ‘other’. However I do love Miss Beals especially in her role in having a biracial lesbian on the Lword and for her GLAAD awards sepach, she is a fav of mine. As for everyone else, the argument was not ‘if se’s black or not’ how did Mixed get so confused with Black, we know she isn’t black, infact all we do know is that she comes across as a strong minded multiracial woman.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 2:22 pm ¶

71. gladman wrote:

    Does she have a black boyfriend/husband and any black kids. If the answer to those is no and she’s got a white guy in tow, then she really hasn’t embraced her blackness as she states.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 6:03 pm ¶

72. gladman wrote:

    Actually the black and white photo is misleading after googling her trust me she does not look white! she’s no different than Mel B or Halle Berry. Hell I am not sure how she’d pass for white Impossible. The picture was put in their intentionally to mislead, which it did quite well!

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 6:05 pm ¶

73. wendi muse wrote:

    gladman,
    how is choosing a black mate a reflection of the acceptance of one’s blackness?

    are you saying that blacks who date interracially are denying their blackness? if so, how do you figure?

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 6:58 pm ¶

74. MiNC wrote:

    Wow did somebody call the “Drop Squad?” I think they did because the Negro Authenticity Police is on the hunt for some perps.

    It seems like the haterade thrown at Rashida Jones is a bit personal and pointed. People just don’t like her for some reason and lots of bile is spewing.

    When people of color start policing other people of color with regard to their “authenticity” I always find that it says way more about the confusion and self-hatred of the “police-er” rather than the “police-ee.”

    The bottom line is that we’ve all been brainwashed and until we start deprogramming, we’re going to continue to deal with the Negro Authenticity Police, the Asian Authenticity Police, Native Authenticity Police, Latino Authenticity Police and on and on and on.

    Decolonize your minds people and if you can’t do that then try not to be so darned hateful.

    Sheesh.

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 7:19 pm ¶

75. Anonymous wrote:

    gladman,

    she does not look white because she is NOT white.
    she does not look black because she is NOT black.

    she is BIRACIAL. (go ahead, let that sink in…)

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 8:37 pm ¶

76. Anon wrote:

    To #71 gladman

    I do not understand: Why should she have a black boyfriend or husband? Why should she have black kids?

    Why are you stubbornly demanding that she identify and date (or marry) black only when she is ALSO white? Please explain.

    She, as well as anyone else in the free world, can date or marry whomever she pleases — whether you approve or not.

    Also, if she’s going to embrace her “blackness”, then she should also embrace her whiteness as well!

    Peggy Lipton will not be ignored. =)

    Posted 18 Apr 2008 at 9:39 pm ¶

77. EH wrote:

    Have to say I agree with Andre. I’m having a very hard time swallowing that woman calling herself “black”. Although that’s her right to. If she wants to say she’s multiracial I would think that’s alright. But black?? Not buying that sorry.

    Something about her reminds me of a rich person choosing to live in a bad neighborhood and having their poor neighbors pat them on the head for claiming them.

    Posted 19 Apr 2008 at 2:56 pm ¶

78. Barry wrote:

    Thank you for bringing RASHIDA JONES to our attention, Latoya. I never heard of her before, though I am a great fan of both her parents PEGGY LIPTON and QUINCY JONES. They are royalty to Black people, so she is royalty too!

    By the way, I’ve never seen so many responses to one post! Mine is #78! Congratulations!

    Posted 19 Apr 2008 at 5:00 pm ¶

79. wendi muse wrote:

    just to echo some people above, but in more explicit terms:

    WHO F*CKING CARES?

    why are people arguing over whether or not rashida jones can KINDA identify with being black? her name is rashida jones for god sakes. we don’t need to look too many posts behind this one to find my post on keenan thompson’s virginiaca skit and latoya’s post on the weight of “ethnic-sounding” names, and you’ll get what i am saying. just putting it out there, but Rashida Jones “sounds black” much more than Wendi Muse.

    Does my name make me less black?

    Or, hmm what if Rashida were to date, marry, and/or have a zillion kids with a black man? then yall would be doggin’ out the black guy for getting with a light-skinned chick. or even worse, getting onto rashida for fetishing her black brothers to get in touch with her black side.

    i am really tired of arguments like this. they are cyclical and a total waste of time. i say that instead of worrying about how someone identifies, people need to find solid hobbies that advance their sense of well being or at least something else to do with their time besides bitch and complain b/c some woman (gasp) embraces multiple aspects of her ethnicity.

    it’s 2008, and if we still classify people like massah did, we have LOOOOOOOONG way to go.

    Posted 19 Apr 2008 at 6:53 pm ¶

80. lowercase tasha wrote:

    “They (Peggy Lipton and Quincy Jones) are royalty to Black people, so she is royalty too!”

    Anyway . . .

    @EH/Andre

    Why the beef? I could see you being upset if she was trying to play it off like she wasn’t black, but I guess that would be hard to do with a first name like Rashida and the fact that everyone knows that Quincy is her pops. Yeah, she could change her name, but then, she would probably get lost in the shuffle without the benefit of nepotism.

    Posted 19 Apr 2008 at 8:06 pm ¶

81. Anonymous wrote:

    You know…for the longest time, I thought she was of Arab descent. I’ve known dozens of Lebanese women who look like her.
    Many of the women on the labels of Egyptian and Lebanese pop I used to sell for my Lebanese and Egyptian employer looked like her.
    I thought her visibility was somehow progressive.

    My question is–how isn’t it?
    I live in Baltimore, which is inarguably portrayed as the ‘blackest’ city in America. My friends run the whole gamut of the color spectrum. My mother’s best friend is Puerto Rican, Jewish and Japanese and her Puerto Rican and Jamaican sister looks exactly like my white mother.
    My Jewish, Irish mother is mistaken for Arab Columbian.

    Media is fluid at best. Issues of race as studied traditionally since the civil rights movement intentionally obfuscate the variability of looks and experiences in favor of an experience of absolutes.
    It’s really an issue of white-black and it’s irritating. So many writers identify as multiracial and multicultural.
    Why is it that Brandon Lee is identified as Asian when it can often, in retrospect, be difficult to tell?
    Why is it that Rashida Jones cannot be black?

    Is it just me or am I sensing a female-oriented double-standard?

    Black women are a flavor, not a minority, from the angle of some of the posts. Rashida Jones defies that flavor somehow.
    I apologize if that comes off as incendiary. Yet…
    Really, it’s as if a woman cannot be a patent black woman or something unless their phenotype is 100% an India Arie. (Who is still too light for some people I’ve met, and criticized for others for her Midwestern roots, her Carribbean roots, etc.)
    Black culture, if it’s wrong to say it, is large and impressive and full of precedent enough to accept a Rashida Jones in its fold.
    As for racism…yes, if you’re light, bright, and damn-near white, you can still get a lot of flak for having ‘weird’ features or ‘funny’ cultural habits, whether it’s cadence of speech or proximity to other people and particularly if it involves something like sense of humor or insider-outsider situations. Plus, your otherness scares the living crap out of the real white people. Just trust me on this.
    My background is obviously not a black experience but, as someone of rather confirmed Native American descent, where people reservation-born can be blonde and blue-eyed, it raises suspicions a little as to how much political blackness ties into this perception of cultural and ‘racial’ bi-directionality.
    And how it’s negatively affecting people of other minorities. Nothing currently pisses me off more than the Cherokee Nation’s stance on members who descended from slaves. If the Lumbee took such a stance, they’d hardly exist as a tribe!
    In respects to pop culture, such a proclamation immediately precludes Jimi Hendrix as an example of a Native American rock genius (who was also black.)
    Carribbean people probably feel similar frustrations with this racial absolutism; it’s not about the one-drop rule inasmuch as it’s about who your family is, after all.
    Or is that too sentimentalist?

    Posted 19 Apr 2008 at 11:23 pm ¶

82. Anonymous wrote:

    @MiNC - ‘Authenticity police’! I love it!
    @ Wendi - For real.
    @ Andre - race is political, but race is cultural, too. For what is culture if not political? Let’s not focus on whether Rashida Jones is ‘really’ black or not (and why can’t she be both black and mixed/multiracial/biracial at the same time? and white, too, while we’re at it?).

    Because really? Yes a person’s upbringing, their cultural and social relationship to race, their looks, their ‘possessive investment’ all influence their standpoint. But ultimately your political and cultural perspective, affiliation, and actions are going to be a lot more meaningful in the long run to just about anybody who acknowledges that you are more than whatever race someone else says you are.

    Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 12:06 am ¶

83. Michelle wrote:

    Just so we are clear….

    Jones’ roles in The Office and in her new show are not Black characters. Not saying they should be. Just saying they are not Black women. Nor, are they ostensibly mixed race. They are basically White women, meaning that most Americans are going to look at those roles and see White women. Much like Wentworth Miller and his role in Prison Break.

    I actually think that people who look White but are known to have some African ancestry can play roles that are other than Black. Let’s be very, very clear. When Jennifer Beals was revealed as mixed race after Flashdance, her career never became what it should have been. Many Hollywood producers wouldn’t hire her in mainstream movies. Now, thirty years later, people like her can play White roles, without having to deny who their parents are or were. I think that is progress. Lena Horne, today, could play White women very easily. That is a great thing.

    Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 1:20 am ¶

84. EH wrote:

    I think there’s a difference between progress in terms of mixed/minority actors getting decent roles period and having them play musical chairs to different racial themes throughout their career. I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing but I really don’t see how minority/mixed individuals playing white characters is a form of “progress” anymore than whites playing minority characters has been.

    Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 12:18 pm ¶

85. Sandy wrote:

    @EH, ITA. If anything it shows that “Hollywood” is still not comfortable with certain types of relationships being displayed on screen.

    @Michelle, I am a huge “The Office” fan. I loved Rashida’s role…I agree her role did not have to be played by a blackwoman or mixed woman. My problem is when such roles as Rashida’s are often given to those of lighter hues or ambiquous looks ( or just a white person) just to make certain people comfortable. I don’t necessarily view it as progress when women like Rashida can play different roles (a white character) (even though I am happy for her because I just like her as an actress) because to me it is still an underlying message that “Hollywood” is sending which is that only a certain look is acceptable when displaying a particular role (or relationship): one for whites and one for blacks. IMO, that just isn’t fair. It isn’t fair to the mixed woman or any other woman of color. Why should Rashida have to play an Italian ( or should I say be labeled as one) just to be in a role. Why can’t she just be an actress regardless of how she looks? Why can’t a woman like my best friend who is AA ( darker skinned, left her small southern town to move to Hollywood and God help her, lol but she keeps telling me it’s her dream so I have to support her) have the same opportunity to play the same role even though she does not look white or ambigious looking? I think all actors truly want and deserve the opportunity to play different roles.

    Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 10:14 pm ¶

86. The Local Crank wrote:

    “I don’t think her Cherokee blood would give her any special entré into a Cherokee community. Unless she was raised in the community, she’d be treated like an outsider.”

    It depends. Cherokee don’t use blood quanta (a current member of the tribal council is about 1/257th). More traditional Cherokee (the ones for keep the old traditions and for whom tribal citizenship means more than just a card) would likely look at her askance, especially since EVERYBODY claims to be “Cherokee,” and usually on the basis of a mythical great great grandmother who was allegedly a “Cherokee princess.” It would be interesting to see how she’d be welcomed by the tiny minority of Cherokee who voted to disenroll the Freedmen (descendants of Cherokee slaves) given some of the virulent racism that permeated that election.

    Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 11:37 pm ¶

87. Michelle wrote:

    Huge Office fan too!

    Of course, actors want to play different roles. Actors think of themselves as totally transformational. Which is great and as it should be.

    But isn’t being able to play White or be considered White one of the main points of the Biracial discourse? Anonymous said “She is NOT black only and she is NOT white only — she is BOTH” Which means, she is White. She also happens to be Black.

    Part of being white is having privilege. I think we can all agree on that. Years ago, like when Jean Toomer was alive, BlackWhite/Biracial people had no choice but to adhere to the one drop rule. As much as they fought to be considered something other than or in addition to Black, they only had two choices, pass or be Black. Now, they are finally getting the choice. Racial attitudes are shifting, however very slowly. So, given that Hollywood has always been very exclusionary, I think it is progress that BlackWhite/Biracial people get a chance to be included. Other Black people (especially women) are not included, but they are. So the needle has moved, if only to include people who look White. They are not asking them to pass or only choose Black. So, it seems to me that after 25 plus years of fighting for inclusion and certain access to Whiteness/White privilege, Biracial people have gotten some of the things that they are fighting for. And more importantly, Americans think of them differently than the rest of Black America. Which is extraordinarily important because to change the minds of people in America is very hard and something that Black people have been trying to do for, well, since we landed here, maybe? So if it can be done, then it can be done for all of us.

    Disclaimer! I framed this in terms of Black and White not to exclude other mixed race people. But I feel that for the purposes of Hollywood and this discussion, it is easier to stick to the mixture and issues at hand.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 12:23 am ¶

88. Anon wrote:

    Maybe off topic, but I believe on The Office, Steve Carell’s character, Michael Scott, upon meeting Rashida Jones’ character, said something like, “Wow, you’re exotic. Was your dad a G.I.?”

    I love that show.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 2:44 am ¶

89. Simone wrote:

    @ Michelle -

    You are correct on each and every point!

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 11:17 am ¶

90. Michelle wrote:

    Yes, he did, Anon.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 11:41 am ¶

91. Sandy wrote:

    What about those of mixed race/Biracial who do not look “White”? Do they also get the same opportunity?

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 1:31 pm ¶

92. Sabrina wrote:

    This exact same identity argument pops up ALL THE TIME on like every post!!!!

    When folks mince words about whether the combined experiences of a person allows them to identify as a person of color, well shucks, that kind of oversimplifies/homogenizes the experiences don’t you think? And it also presupposes this monolithic “person of color” experience. Otherwise there would be no standard to judge the blackness of Rashida’s experience.

    Last I heard the experience of being black has many nuances…even in terms of privilege. So it makes sense that when Rashida says “I do identify with being black,” she is not necessarily saying “I have experienced all the qualifiers necessary for your standards of blackness” because there is no such thing!

    Next thing you’ll be telling me is that since upper class black folks have class privilege, they cannot identify as black. But no one (here) would say that. And this is ironic, because while class privilege has been clearly defined as a source of power, passing privilege is a mixed bag in terms of power (but is apparently a great way to negate one’s “blackness”).

    Someone above said that folks of color who look white have to say that they’re of color to experience difference…which is kind of ridiculous because there are other ways for people to find out that a person is not white. And certainly, white folks do not have to deal with being “discovered” while passing, which you would have to take into consideration if you decide that ability to pass is a privilege. Also who ever decided that only experience of difference in being a person of color is in how folks perceive your individual physical self? Do none of us have ties to our family to our names to our culture or to any other difference.

    Lastly, “looking white” is relative. Just because you think someone looks white doesn’t mean that they don’t ever encounter folks who distinctly notice their otherness.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 4:25 pm ¶

93. ej wrote:

    to me rashida is awesome for identifying as who she is. wtf s=is looking black anyway

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 5:53 pm ¶

94. Sagittarius wrote:

    You guys do know that black women can have biracial children also? Why is it when people talk about biracial kids, the mom is non-black? That is not fair to make it seem like only black MEN have biracial kids.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 6:30 pm ¶

95. Eric Daniels wrote:

    I have to agree with gladman on Rashida’s take on blackness, she can self-identify as African- American and that’s her choice but I would not trust her to deal with serious issues like African- American emanicpation because it would have to be a black male or female not mixed leading those movements. Many of you will disagree but people like Jones can assist and work behind the scenes but I wouldn’t take someone like Rashida, Tiger, or anyone with a white (or other spouse) as someone who is serious about the problems and issues that A.A. have in this country being the face of a civil or human rights movement.

    I rememeber reading Malcolm X was saying the same thing when he said “could you take a any black Man as a leader of a movement if his wife is white” remember folk,s MLK was engaged to a white woman before he met Corretta, would SCLC made him it’s President if he was married to one in the 1950’s? I think not.

    I would like to ask the 93 posters on this board, would you want Halle Berry with Gabriel Aubry as her spouse leading the NAACP, Urban League, or Chris Noth leading 100 Black Men or Kim Kardashian leading 100 Black Women or if Seal and Hedi Klum bought out Johnson products would you still buy the Johnson brand? I would think that A.A organization would want a Black Man or Woman whose spouse is black leading that organization.

    Rashida can identify as Black but she would have to prove her blackness in deed and action with a knowledge on what’s important to the A.A. community. Like Harold Cruse talked about in “Crisis of the Negro Intellectual’, he stated that Blacks must be charge of these organizations in deed and act. a mixed spouse amongst those couple would undermine that mission amongst Blacks and others and not inspire trust.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 7:21 pm ¶

96. Anonymous wrote:

    @ Eric Daniels,

    how old are you, 90?

    btw you write/sound like an old geezer.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 7:58 pm ¶

97. Michelle wrote:

    Oh, Eric, honey…you are a brave soul for always speaking your mind with not nary a filter.

    To answer the above question….people who have a white parent and a black parent who look like, say Halle Berry when she first hit the scene, or Victoria Rowell, Lenny Kravitz, Tamia, or Faith Evans, then you don’t get the same privilege. You can’t play White people, not until you achieve the Halle Berry level of fame. Faith Evans, to most Americans is just a black woman. Faith can’t do what Alicia Keys can do because she doesn’t “look” the part. maybe one day, simply claiming your White parent will be enough to open the same doors. But for now, your phenotype is the calling card that grants you access to a certain level of White privilege. If Faith Evans looked more like Alicia Keys, and had her White parent and parentage displayed more prominently, then maybe she would have had more cross over success. Vin Diesel has made an entire career out of this issue.

    I just want to say that just because we speak about White privilege doesn’t mean that we are denying any other sorts of privilege. It is simply that we are narrowing down the conversation to one specific thing. That in and of itself does not deny that other privileges exist. We could do a whole post on beauty and how Rashida Jones, being beautiful, has beauty privilege. That plays a significant role in her success as an actress. Just saying it for the record.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 9:31 pm ¶

98. Folklore Fanatic wrote:

    Sorry, proper repost:

    @ 95. Eric:

    Rashida can identify as Black but she would have to prove her blackness in deed and action with a knowledge on what’s important to the A.A. community. Like Harold Cruse talked about in “Crisis of the Negro Intellectual’, he stated that Blacks must be charge of these organizations in deed and act. a mixed spouse amongst those couple would undermine that mission amongst Blacks and others and not inspire trust.

    Warning! Negro Authenticity Police!

    Seriously? Seriously? So people like Fredi Washington and Walter White suffered and worked as leaders in ther prospective arenas for nothing because they couldn’t be taken “as serious”(ly) as someone who looks like they just emigrated from Niger? Because that is what you sound like you’re saying here, and it is extremely hurtful.

    Many of the reactions on this blog are the reason I rarely talked about my racial and cultural heritage in college, declined to join the BSA or the Caribbean Club (though I had as much right as anyone to join that club, seeing as my dad is an immigrant and St. Kitts is one of my two homelands), and basically felt like people wanted me to deny half of myself to belong.

    Malcolm X was an influential leader. He also spewed a lot of segregationist crap. Interracial marriages are not abominations. White people are not universally evil; is is white privilege and institutional racism that we must fight.

    I hope you can begin to understand why colorism is divisive and why what you just said is incredibly insulting to all multiracial people and interracial couples - and why I take it so personally.

    I know I have privilege. That doesn’t make me a mistake.

    Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 10:47 pm ¶

99. FranSky wrote:

    Wow! This blog has really changed. Not even sure this comment will make it through but I remember when Racialicious was a great place for mixed folks online. Not a e-place where if you’re mixed/multiracial you have to prove that your as much a POC as anyone else. I’m saddened by the course this blog has taken & am reconsidering my daily reading of it because every time a mixed race issue comes up these days I just feel sad or angry & to me that is not what equality & community is all about.

    Ms. Jones clearly knows herself & is not willing to let anyone dicide for her who or what she is racially speaking. And I for one agree with her! So she doesn’t have dark skin or has what some say is “good hair.” So what if sometimes she passes. I can guarantee that she does not always pass and than when she does have to mention she is mixed/part Black, folks view her in a very different & racialized way.

    She clearly is NOT hiding behind some white curtain trying to “be” white. She chooses most likely on a daily basis to honor all parts of the history regardless of how Black or non-Black she may seem. And the folks who seem to have the biggest issue with that are not really helping to make the world a better place by complaining or hating her or any other mixed person by telling them they aren’t -enough- of whatever it is that makes someone worthy of being equal to them.

    Yeah she may not get the same treatment her darker skinned sisters & brothers get. But that doesn’t mean she has never dealt with intolerance and racism from whites.

    Rashida Jones is a beautiful mixed race woman. And that’s fucking okay. Someone may not like her for it or anyone else who doesn’t measure up to the “Black enough” standards of certain folks, but she is brave enough to not give a rip what anyone thinks of her. And that is SISTER strength if I ever saw it!
    Peace!
    ~F

    Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 12:33 am ¶

100. Anonymous wrote:

     michelle,

     are you biracial?
     (i’m guessing ur not.)

     Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 9:03 am ¶

101. She wrote:

     @ FranSky,
     @ Folklore Fanatic,

     THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
     (and I know what you mean about censorship, aka dissipating freedom of speech. so as soon as i see censorship on any blog, i NEVER go back to that blog again. ok. so it only happened once, but i’ve never been back.)

     But I digress…

     It seems like on most of the blogs where mixed-race people can go and “vent” — where other mixed race people know exactly what they are feeling and what they are talking about — there are ALWAYS those who are not mixed-race (by their own admission), who troll the biracial blogs posting, and complaining, and insulting mixed-race people. They blog about the mixed-race experience when there is NO WAY they could possible know. They are on the outside looking in at what they PERCEIVE life is like for biracial people, when they really have no idea.

     Yet they continue to post complaints and insults, and demanding this and that of mixed-race people. Why?

     Question: Have you ever seen mixed-race people on the “african american” blogs complaining and insulting black (monoracial) people? I haven’t.

     The fact is Rashida Jones, Halle Berry, Alicia Keys, et al., are beautiful biracial women who make me proud to be biracial.

     Handle it.

     p.s. Now hold on to your seats for this one… “I really don’t give a FLIP about Malcolm X,” and I have the right to say it!

     Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 9:52 am ¶

102. lowercase tasha wrote:

     “You guys do know that black women can have biracial children also? Why is it when people talk about biracial kids, the mom is non-black? That is not fair to make it seem like only black MEN have biracial kids.”

     @Sagittarius

     I don’t think that anyone is trying to imply that black women can’t have bi-racial children, but look around; the reality of it is that seven or eight times out of ten, when a bi-racial child has a black parent, it’s usually a black father.

     I for one think that Rashida is incredibly corny, and feckless, and not that great of an actress but not for racial reasons. She could be doing a lot of things and making a splash with her education and the resources at her disposal like Sofia Coppola, like maybe using her father’s production company to greenlight projects that tackle the issue of mixed race identity, but I don’t think she’s doing that. To me, she’s like a high-brow celebutant.

     Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 9:59 am ¶

103. Michelle wrote:

     Anonymous,

     Why do you ask? Is that important?

     I will tell you that I am very involved in the entertainment industry and if you are curious, that is the main perspective that I am speaking from. My last post was based upon things that I see first hand, everyday from my vantage point as an industry insider, so to speak.

     Clearly, you have issues with what I posted and if you have time, I would love to hear them, but asking me about my parentage is irrelevant to the discussion, IMHO.

     Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 2:12 pm ¶

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