In the Moment: Racism and Our Reactions
by Guest Contributor Tara, originally published at Bias Cut
I think the Universe has been testing me lately.
Over the last several months, I’ve been confronted with some pretty blatantly racist statements about Asian folks, and each moment has been pretty intense in a lot of ways.
While I was in Puerto Rico, my friends and I were at a restaurant, and started passing around our old college IDs to giggle at. Mine is a picture of me as a babydyke with short and spiky hair. The waiter (a young white guy) came over and and asked if we were passing around our fake IDs (which was funny, because all of us ranged in age from 25 to 37). I said that we were passing around our college IDs, and I suppose in an attempt to be friendly, he asked to see them. I passed mine over and he said something that I didn’t quite catch because it was noisy.
A little bit later during the dinner, I said to Anna, “I can’t believe our waiter thought we were under 21!” Anna said, “Um, I can’t believe the Asian comment that he made!” I asked her what he said, and she told me that when I had handed him my ID, he said, “Did you steal your ID from some Asian kid?”
Horrifyingly, the waiter heard us and came back over to the table. “Yeah, I asked her if she stole her ID from some Asian kid.” Anna asked, “Does that mean that you don’t think she looks Asian?” He answered no. “Well, I am,” I snapped at him. He then continued to stick his foot further in his mouth and explain that the ID did, in fact, look like something I stole.
More recently, I was at a party where some people were taking pictures. Someone mentioned that their friend looked like they were squinting in the picture. And then, the Asian jokes started. One guy clasped his hands together, bowed, and imitated an Asian accent. Later, they started talking about ping pong, and someone said something about Koreans being really good at ping pong. Then, another person wondered if it was the Chinese or the Koreans that were good at ping pong. Someone else said, horrified, that they didn’t believe athletic ability was tied to race. Someone else replied that no really, Asians really were good at ping pong! All of them were white.
In those situations, I didn’t say anything. You see, I have this deer-in-the-headlights reaction when I hear something racist that people, especially strangers, say. I’m one of those people who prefers to analyze something to death before responding. I like to choose my words carefully, which makes it extremely difficult to think fast enough about what response I want to have in those moments. And I inevitably leave those interactions feeling guilty, like I’m not fierce enough or smart enough to have said something.
I’ve found that I’ve had the most success around talking to folks about racism when I have a personal relationship with them, and can therefore approach the situation at a later date when I’ve had a chance to think about the comment or action. Plus, I feel that I am personally more skilled at approaching conversations from a “this hurt me, and this is why” standpoint versus a “fuck you, and this is why” standpoint.
But the other thing I’ve been thinking about lately is how other people react to the stories after the fact. Whenever I retell the stories, they are almost immediately followed by the question, “So what did you do/say?” And when the answer is “nothing,” I feel obligated to justify my silence to them, and leave the interaction feeling even more guilty about my non-reaction.
So, the questions I’ve been asking myself lately are:
1. Why is it that so many people react to racist stories with a question about how you did or didn’t react to that situation in the moment and what that question is really about;
2. What kinds of expectations white folks have around POC’s reactions to racism and why;
3. How it further marginalizes POC when we internalize those expectations; and
4. What, if any, responsibility do I have to myself and my community to speak up in those moments, especially given that I often pass as white and therefore am witness to some of the racist things that white folks say when they think they are only amongst white folks.
These questions are all weighing pretty heavily on me right now.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Sarah wrote:
There’s a wonderful artist named Adrian Piper, whose work often deals with issues of race and Blackness. She is very light-skinned, and often passes for white, so she too is sometimes witness to such comments made by some prejudiced white folks when they think no POC’s are around.
So to defuse the comment without disturbing the social gathering (something that was important to her at the time that she created it — she often heard these jokes at dinner parties), she created My Calling Card #1, to hand out to the offending person: http://culturemachine.tees.ac.uk/InterZone/Glowacka.htm
Gotta love the last line
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 8:25 am ¶
lily's mom wrote:
I’m a Caucasian girl married to an Asian guy and I used to find myself going off when people said racist stuff in front of us. Then some (white) guy said I was embarrassing my husband so I stopped. It’s a ‘can’t win’ situation sometimes. But the first time someone does it in front of my daughter, I will have to work really hard not to beat on that person.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 8:54 am ¶
tradamerica wrote:
I am of Croatian, Irish, Welsh, African, and Indigenous American ancestry. In the summer I’m quite dark (look to be Mexican or Arab) in the winter I lighten up. I suggest the author lighten up also. It’s a tribal norm to comment, joke, or even criticize attributes of other people. To always call these events, racism is wrongheaded and unnecessarily defensive. I’ll give you an example: My Crow grandfather like to call his Ojibwa friend, “a dog eatin’ Chippewa.” It was a comical tribal epitaph. Much of the so-called racism in America is has more tribalism attributes than deep seated racism. Not saying racism doesn’t exist, but it’s not helpful or rational for POC to be ready and armed to play the “gottcha” race card when they hear someone say something that recognized tribal, color, or other ethnic differences.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:12 am ¶
Ottermatic wrote:
I’m white, and I definitely ask “And then what did you say???” when somebody, POC or white, tells a story of witnessing racist words or deeds. As I read your question, my first thought was, “Because I want the story to have a happy ending where my conversational companion gave the racist a-hole what for.” I think this stems from my hopeful expectation that people will shout down injustice when they see it, but at the same time, I completely understand if the person did or said nothing. I would love to say that I have shouted down injustice whenever I’ve seen it, but I haven’t.
I hadn’t thought about what sort of message that question might send to the story teller. I hadn’t really realized that I’m communicating a hope/expectation to everybody who relates such a story to end it with vengeance and redemption. That’s asking a lot, huh?
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:14 am ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
Um, a couple of weeks ago I was having a fab Sunday with a friend. Her ex-boyfriend joined us later on.
I mentioned something about like the following: “I like Jewish guys”. His reaction? A shocked look on his face and he said this: “I have the utmost respect for Hitler.”
And he wasn’t being sarcastic or trying to be funny.
I don’t think I can be blamed for losing it.
But, yeah, I should probably also stop being offended every single time someone says something racist.
Or not?
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:16 am ¶
tradamerica wrote:
Lily’s mom’s post is a perfect example of playing the “gottcha” race card. If you are suspect of some person’s comments, simply tell them you are proud of your heritage. Only a racist will challenge that. Most of us mongrels are happy to see the browning of America! Don’t get your undies in a bind over someone’s tribal comments. It’s not good for one’s peace/karma.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:17 am ¶
Ottermatic wrote:
I am suddenly struck with a wave of Internet-Misunderstandaphobia. My previous comment is meant entirely sincerely - there is no sarcasm whatsoever in anything I wrote.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:19 am ¶
china blue wrote:
I don’t mind white people asking me where I (i.e. my family) is from, not at all.
I tend to mind when some idiot goes, ‘Jamaican? So your dad is a dreadlock Rasta? Does he smoke weed?’ and ‘Do you listen to Bob Marley?’ Cue also bad ‘beer-can’ Yardie accent.
To which the standard response is a contemptuous, are-you-educationally-subnormal? stare, and a curt ‘No.’ Usually kills that line of questioning stone dead.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:40 am ¶
deb wrote:
Same here, Tara. (I’m the queen of treppenwitz.) I articulate my thoughts better on paper than off-the-cuff. I like to back up statements with facts, but I don’t always remember them off the top of my head. Another thing, is that I’m sensitive. I choose my words carefully for fear of offending others.
It’s always racist situations that get my goat. Recently, I came across the term “chimp out” while reading some comments on youtube. I didn’t reply, but I wanted to vent in a constructive way. I even thought about writing about it, but my ire subsided. I also came across a quote by Far-right blogger Lawrence Auster who said that if Barack Obama is elected President it “would be like four years of blacks dancing in the street over the OJ Simpson verdict.” Man, did this bother me. I was pissed for days, literally. I wanted to say something, but I couldn’t find the right words. I also didn’t want to visit the blogger’s site to post them. So, eventually, I let it go. And that’s the thing: we let so many things like this go. And yet, when we speak up/out, we’re thought of as being too sensitive.
I guess racist and insensitive comments come from the mouths of people who lack empathy/sympathy for those unlike themselves. It’s a little sad that they haven’t reached that place on the branch of social evolution where they might understand what it’s like to be fully human.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:47 am ¶
Gloria wrote:
I have to admit that I’m a white person who often asks the question about how the person reacted. In my case, I’m usually asking out of a desire to learn better how to react myself in those situations. My response tends to be either “deer in the headlights” or to completely go off on the person (especially when I was pregnant with my biracial children and the “mama bear” came out). I’m sure there are much better responses, and I like to learn from those who are willing to share their stories with me. I will definitely try to better state my question in the future, however, so that I don’t place undue guilt where it doesn’t belong.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:53 am ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
i spend most of my life with my foot in my mouth and the rest of the time apologizing…
i think we cannot ALWAYS pass off ignorance and bad manners to racism, because I THINK that racism is truly hateful and malicious and we are now presuming every careless remark is unkind.
i think its a matter of education in a non confrontational way, and not everyone has to take that stance
just bossy self righteous people like me who as i said..
mbrlwrbble rbblmlrblrrblr
live with a size eight wide wedged in my mouth……
love your way in the world tradamerica
and thank you sarah for bringing adrian piper back in my life….
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 10:05 am ¶
Kenny wrote:
On a flight from Alabama to Cleveland this bigot sat next to me and started making remarks about Arabs,to the tune of being afraid thatf the guys seated in front of us would hijack the plane.He then talked with a lisp when mocking the male flight attendant we had.I didn’t laugh, but felt bad later on for not challenging him more than I did.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 10:18 am ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
wait wait wait a minute,,,this discussion is about NOT asking
“how did you react?”
is that the argument/discussion..
ok, here i go..are you kidding??
if we cannot ask a person
how did they react in a precarious situation,
wihtout being offended—what are we allowed to talk about??
is there a training book that comes with life??
please please lets lighten up a little…
or do i need to have my mouth stitched close now??
if we become afraid to talk..
how can we have dialogue??
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 10:19 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Here are my Monday-morning answers to your questions, Tara:
1. Why is it that so many people react to racist stories with a question about how you did or didn’t react to that situation in the moment and what that question is really about?
I think it’s about defending the group of color you belong to and/or ally with against yet another attack on its collective character from those who subscribe to racist ideas. so, when someone asks, “What did you say,” I suspect the underlying question is “Did you defend us (the group of color) and how (teaching moment, cussing the speaker out, giving the speaker stank-eye and walking away, shocked silence)?”
2. What kinds of expectations white folks have around POC’s reactions to racism and why?
In my experience of being in these situations, I suspect the expectations are that PoCs should accept the racist remark/situation silently (because we’re the “polite” situation of being at dinner or a party or at work or a conference or having sex) or to get cussing-out angry. The silence affirms the racism (”you didn’t say anything, so it must be OK”); the cussing affirms the stereotype that PoCs are ultimately out-of-control and, therefore, easily dismissable. What they aren’t prepared for is a calm, deft, and informed rebuttal to their viewpoint. (That’s when that back-handed compliment, “You’re so articulate,” usually comes out of their mouths.)
3. How it further marginalizes POC when we internalize those expectations?
For me, it depends. Sometimes, I’m just not in the head-space to be so witty, so I’m quiet. But I seethe afterward…and I hate that feeling. So, I’ve learned, over time, to get verbal and/or to give non-verbal cues to let the offending person know that the comment/action wasn’t appreciated. Like I said, the deft rebuttal usual stuns the racist into silence or to stutter and backpedal. Both bring a smile to my wee, cruel heart.;-)
4. What, if any, responsibility do I have to myself and my community to speak up in those moments, especially given that I often pass as white and therefore am witness to some of the racist things that white folks say when they think they are only amongst white folks?
Tara, I do think a person of color has the responsibility to speak up to counteract the foolishness, so, if nothing else, you’ll be able to, say, eat your dinner w/out the gastro-intestinal upset or kill your buzz.:-D Seriously, your speaking may make the racist think: if nothing else, to think that we people of color aren’t tolerating the ish. Do you have to do it *every* time? It helps, but sometimes you just aren’t in the head space to get your retort on, so you go home, lick your wounds, get on your phone or in your journal or on a blog and process, and come back another day. And, if you just don’t feel like saying anything, give ‘em the Piper Calling Card. It says it all for you.
As for passing and the ability to witness what white people say when they think they’re amongst themselves: I’m sure there are many of us who couldn’t physically pass for white but really want to be that “fly on the wall” in order to really hear how these racist folks cognate their BS. I guess my question for you, Tara, is: by disrupting your vantage point through pointing out the racism, do you think you’ll lose that advantage? For whom does taking your observer stance help and/or hinder?
I hope my answers helped, and I’d love to hear how you navigate this.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 10:37 am ¶
cosmicsistren wrote:
I am so tired that when people of color hear ignorant or racist comments from whites we are told to “lighten up”. I wish people would wake up and realize that racism is so prevalent in this country. If it wasn’t there would be no need to have blogs like Racialious.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:42 am ¶
Nadra wrote:
I think it places an undue burden on POCs to constantly bear the responsibility of educating others about racism. I think it’s a burden we have to choose to bear selectively for the sake of our own psychological health. I used to get into arguments with people all the time over racist remarks when I was younger, but it didn’t really seem to do any good. Many people with racist views are pretty determined to hold onto them, and there’s not much we can do to change their minds about it. However, I do believe that when someone we’re close to is involved, such as a friend or family member, we should make the decision to speak up, as we have the most chance of influencing those we are closest to. I also think that rather than attack people who make racist remarks, it’s good to ask them questions that function to draw out their misguided line of thinking. Lastly, silence can be effective, too. If someone makes a racist joke, and you refuse to acknowledge it by remaining silent, you are indeed getting a point across.
RIP Brandon Bruce Lee (Feb. 1, 1965-March 31, 2008)
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:46 am ¶
Shannon wrote:
People who know me well have stopped asking and then what did you say because they probably know. I am not good at digesting then commenting, mostly due to my temper. On a good day and with someone I like I will be calm, however if I don’t like the person who said whatever, or it’s a bad day. The razor tongue comes out.
Although I can be very polite about it.
What’s still kind of funny to me is generally people who aren’t a minority in any way tend to be shocked when I yes, display some temper. I’ve gotten a lot of “how could you say that?” and “I can’t believe you just did that.”
I think too many people expect people of color to immediately go into “let’s educate the racist” mode and I personally can’t get behind that idea all of the time.
Also it’s way too early and I probably left something out there. Good entry. Thanks for writing this.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:58 am ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
“But, yeah, I should probably also stop being offended every single time someone says something racist.”
Tarah,
No.
You should NOT ever stop being offended by ANY and EVERY racist comment you hear.
I know I’m offended by racist comments 100% of the time - and that’s how it should be
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:09 pm ¶
CG wrote:
Well I think your question of why people always ask for your response to a situation is more tied to human behavior and curiosity than it is specifically tied to race issues.
I am like you, and never react in the moment of any situation. I always sit back and analyse first, and come to my conclusions and opinions after I’ve had some time to simmer. Which, when re-telling stories (just as you stated), always gets me stuck with defending my silence when asked “so what did you do?” I think it’s just people’s unconscious reaction to assume you’ve reacted, and the story doesn’t just stop there. I get that reaction when telling stories of racism, boyfriend issues, bar confrontations, dealing with a teenager at the register at the grocery store and the list goes on.
I have many friends and past loves of various backgrounds, religions and ethnicities, and I get very offended when people make generalizations and idiotic comments. This is probably another topic altogether, but I don’t always relate to the “White American”. As my parents are eastern european immigrants, American history isn’t really my history, and yet because I am white, I get lumped in by people as being “one of us” when in most times in my life I don’t feel to be “one of” anyone.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:11 pm ¶
Jack Bini wrote:
we need to understand that while many people are maliciously racist others are naively so. As a grad student from africa, I have had to explain to a chinese investigator that research is done in africa though limited by funds to which he conceded after showing genuine surprise that africans can do research. I have encountered initial hostility from a fellow white grad student, who when he saw my friendliness later warmed up to me(we became really good friends too). He was acting reflexively to an assumed racial exclusiveness prevalent in alabama. Experiencing the racial diversity in the US has also helped me to overcome my own biases. I remember being deeply fascinated by an interracial marriage between a nigerian and an indian back in Nigeria where this is very rare. I think we need to loosen up a little. Not every “racist” is maliciously so. They probably just need a little education and engagement, to show that racism as a cultural and social construct makes us more dissimilar that the actual biology and genetics that color our skins differently.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:15 pm ¶
Cara wrote:
Like Ottermatic and Gloria, I’m a white person who often asks the “how did you react?” question. Thinking about it, there have been instances where I’ve asked a POC friend that question, but most often it’s directed at my white husband, who works at a call center and therefore gets to hear all kinds of lovely racial epitaphs from racists who assume that he is white and that he will therefore agree with them. My reason for doing so? First of all, there’s the surprise element, and when surprised by something in a story, I usually blurt out a question. Secondly, I’m thinking about how I would have reacted, and therefore asking how the other person reacted seems like a natural question. And lastly, yeah, I am hoping that the racist ass got his or hers in the end.
But now that it has been pointed out, I can see how such a question can be obnoxious and potentially offensive. It does throw the attention back to the person who did not do anything wrong. To make a feminist (the perspective I most commonly come from) and imperfect analogy, it’s somewhat similar to reacting to a woman’s story about being groped in a bar by a stranger with “did you fight him off?” instead of “oh my god what an asshole, are you okay?”
I don’t think that victim-blaming is necessarily the point of that kind of remark, but it doesn’t really matter, because that’s what it’s doing. Intention is secondary. And now I can see that the “what did you say” reaction to a story about racism is a similarly ignorant and insensitive misstep. So thanks for the post.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:41 pm ¶
Jack Bini wrote:
Let me also add that the racial harmony which we enjoy at this period in americas turbulent racial history, imperfect as it is, is the result of the sacrifice and unrelenting labors of many heros past - black, white, brown, red, yellow etc. I think a little effort of our part, call it nonviolent resistance, if you will, towards racial harmony is a price of indebtedness we could pay for those coming after us also.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:41 pm ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
i told you i spend most of my time with my foot in my mouth or apologizing..
so this time both..so
dear cosmic siren
..i apologize..
after i read my post i said
uh oh that was demeaning and presumptuos
ok lighten up
a double entendre- racist -as if lighten up connotates light being good
and -insensitive and ignorant-
thinking i take this too “lightly”
-equating over sensitive to a daily life experience that must get so tiresome to POC
so again without qualification, i apologize.
im just confused about how we make change..
or whose job it is to educate,
should we always be educating?
how do we talk to each other
if we cannot be prepared to make mistakes..
or i guess i meant
how to know when to truly be pissed off..
so as to give merit to those times i/ we really get enraged….
what is the fine line between
is it worth speaking up or not speaking up..is it worth our /your own discomfort to let it slide..
does this make sense?
and i m learning ,very VERY slowly
the differences between profiling/sterotyping and racsim..
perhaps i m just full of shit cause my life is so easy.
ps
shareece and brandi and jonitka say im not white, and i honestly do not know what they mean.
should i be insulted?
teach me, or not.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 12:58 pm ¶
Tara wrote:
Thanks, all, for the advice and comments.
These questions are ones that I struggle with regularly, and what I’ve come to since writing this post and getting some great feedback on my own blog is to speak up when I can and be ok with myself if I don’t do it perfecty.
I think for me, some of the fear comes from thinking that if I say something, it won’t be eloquent enough or backed up by enough empirical evidence to “prove” that the comment/action was racist, so I sit back and simmer in my own anger and guilt. But coming to the conclusion that if I can, speaking up in any way is great and that there is no need to feel that I’ve achieved perfection in how I handle the situation.
I think the post was also helpful for my white friends to hear because, as folks said above, the questioning isn’t necessarily malicious, but it can turn the responsibility back on to the person who experienced the racist comment/incident, rather than on the perpetrator(s).
For those asking what a better alternative is, I said that when I’m telling those stories, what I want most is “commiseration and confirmation about how problematic the statement/action was; the option to process it further; and in some cases, a check-in about how I feel/felt.”
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 1:23 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Jack. “nonviolent resistance” is a great way of describing the act of confronting naive racism which is pernicious and actively harmful AKA the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Challenging assumptions and jokes is not easy and has made me, at times, seem unlikable or “bitchy” to white people who don’t see the problem. However, I feel bad if I reinforce a racist norm with my silence. I think it is very hard for those in the majority to understand the minority experience but there are more white people with naive or ignorant ideas about other races than those who feel hatred or would like to put racism back into the law. I have changed peoples minds before.
It’s also important to send a message about what’s not okay to say out loud. Some people see themselves as anti-PC crusaders and want any offensive speech to be able to be expressed without reaction. They think thy’re being hauled off to the gulag when they’re only being rebuked. I think it’s more important that my future children not hear and internalize the message that they’re an “other” or that they’re less able to succeed.
Tara, I think people ask you how you reacted only because that completes the story. Storytelling usually follows an action with a reaction. It’s okay to say that you reacted with stunned silence and couldn’t find the words. That happens to me more than I’m proud to admit because I don’t like to make waves.
Someone else here commented that we have to be choosy in the interest of our psychological health. You continue choosing what reaction is best in the situation you’re in. It’s a choice of bad or worse and I respect any choice you make. The political is also personal.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 1:24 pm ¶
marge twain wrote:
Hey- I posted a comment addressing Jack Bini and Tara and I forgot to sign it and now it’s gone! Please, moderator, post my comment
Mod Note: Sorry Marge - like I said, we get hit with tons of spam. I found it, so you should see it. - LDP
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 1:32 pm ¶
Roni wrote:
Much like previous posters, speaking as a white person, I’d probably be oblivious that asking what you said to a racist remark would make you feel like you were being asked to defend something.
For instance, when someone was telling me about something monumentally stupid a customer said on a phone call. I asked how he responded, not out of any expectation, but because I was baffled as to how/if he could politely respond to that.
Before reading this, I’m not sure I would have realized that in the context of a racist remark it would put you on the spot as to whether or not you confronted the offender. That would be my not thinking things through, not an expectation for you.
Also, until reading the comments, I’ve never really specifically thought about the privilege of being able to confront a racist remark and not worry about if I’m reinforcing a stereotype or being viewed as taking things too personally. That’s a hell of a double-bind I’ve never really considered.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 2:15 pm ¶
cosmicsistren wrote:
To Valerie,
I accept your apology. You know how you could educate yourself? Trying new things from people of color. Looking for a new book to read? Try Tanurevie Due (not sure about spelling). Want to hear some good music? Try Ledisi, Joy Denalane, Omar, Raheem DeVaughn, Roy Hargrove, or Incognito. Have some free time during the week-ends? Try the African Art Festival in Brooklyn in July or The Fulton Art Fair. Want to go to a parade? Why not the Puerto Rican Parade or Labor Day parade in Brooklyn?
The point I am trying to make is just alittle exploring and your world will open up so much. So you won’t be so inclined to put “your foot in your mouth” all the time.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 3:20 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:
My reactions to witnessed or experienced racism have changed over the years. I think any reaction, short of violence, is acceptable. You’re the one who has to walk in your shoes every day; you decide how you feel comfortable. Even though it is admirable to be actively anti-racist at all times, it is not your responsibility to educate the world. Remember that you don’t have to represent Asians as a people… you just have to represent you. If you’re offended and you want to say so, great. If you’re offended and you want to roll your eyes and move on with your day, also great.
I’m multiracial, mostly of black and Italian ancestry. I spent most of my adolescence in a very white rural town in Southern Maryland. My high school was the kind of place where guys wore Confederate flag belt buckles and kids got by with singing about lynching at the talent show. Ridiculous. Though I knew many lovely people there with whom I am still friends, there were plenty of blatant racists. After moving there in middle school, I quickly lost count of the incidents when racial slurs (either anti-Black or anti-mixed) were hurled at me. I spent most of my high school career silently fuming every time I heard a Ni**er joke or saw classmates act out stereotypes of African Americans. Often, I didn’t know what to do. There were also many, many instances when my peers expressed ignorant opinions, and I often took those opportunities to open up dialogue. But the hateful, in-your-face incidents? Those, I shrunk from. When I was 17, I hit my breaking point. I was in a speech class, and we were allowed to get up and give an impromptu speech on any topic. I got up and told my privileged, oblivious classmates about how it felt to be the only person of color in our honors classes, how my sister had been the victim of a hate crime earlier that year, how the “jokes” and the comments and the hatred were wearing me down, and that it was not okay, and that it was also their responsibility to fix it. That day was a turning point for me. I found my voice, I guess. My last year in high school, I helped organize anti-racist workshops at the school, and at 18, I excitedly left that backwards town behind for good.
I went to college in Boston, which freaked my mom out because she remembered the racial turmoil of Boston in the 70s. But despite its lingering segregation, I had sort of a respite in Boston. My small, all women’s college was so warm and open and forward-thinking. And I learned more about subtle bias there, and continued my work on a multiculturalism/diversity task force.
I have since moved to Chicago for graduate school, and I’ve found that when I do witness blatant prejudice now that I am sometimes so caught off guard that I don’t know how to react. My childhood was spent in a racial “warzone” where I was always on the defensive, but because I don’t expect it as much here, when I witness racism, I’m not always quick to act. One thing that I try to do consistently is call out people (my own family, included) when I hear them express prejudiced opinions about other groups. In college, when I finally had a chance to breath, I learned more about how to be an ally for others. And I definitely hear plenty of mess because I’m rather ambiguous looking and people don’t always realize what race(s) I am.
One of the reasons I sought out this blog recently is that I realized that I’ve become somewhat lax in my efforts to personally combat racism. For a long time, I resented the educator role that I was forced into as a person of color. But now I find myself, as an adult, choosing where I live and who I associate with, wanting to do more.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 4:00 pm ¶
TierList E wrote:
*sigh* I’ve been stunned/hurt to silence way too many times, especially if it’s blatant. But I’m also not good at hiding my emotions, so I’m sure if the speaker paid me any mind he’d have seen the abject horror on my face. But with friends and ‘naive racial remarks’ I’ll normally do either-
Pointed silence and topic change is a safe way of disapproval, unless you have a confrontational person that wants to prove a point (which in my lifetime has a tendency to be white men- is that true for everyone?). I make the fact that I’m not agreeing with them known, but doesn’t force anyone into awkward, heavy discussions. I tend toward wry smiles and ‘well maybe not’ expressions.
If I feel like someone said something too worrying I’ll force a debate on them. Ha, turns out a lot of people don’t like that. A lot of the times people break down fairly quickly to my contrary ways, and though I doubt I’ve changed many lifeviews most learn I’m one of “those” people and keep their comments to themselves when around me. I like this tactic because every once in a blue moon I actually find someone who wanted to talk about these things and I gain a respectful debating partner to discuss our different POVs.
Now I’m black and look it, so I probably am spared from a lot of ‘no blacks around’ comments, but from my Majority Approved! personality it has been assumed at times that I’d agree with some things that I’d certainly did not. That mistake is usually only made once.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 4:17 pm ¶
marge twain wrote:
thesciencegirl, your speech story was amazing and brave. Thank you for sharing it. I’m curious: did you have any reaction from students or teachers?
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 4:26 pm ¶
Faith wrote:
Thanks for this post! I get really exasperated sometimes trying to explain my brushes with racism to White people sometimes. I DO feel I always get asked “How did you react?” and then a dismissal of the whole incident: “There must have been a misunderstanding. S/He probably didn’t mean it like that.” I understand the impulse to downplay an incident to spare someone’s feelings and comfort them, but in these kinds of cases, all you’re really doing is negating my experience.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 4:45 pm ¶
jvansteppes wrote:
The bottom line really ought to be that there is no wrong reaction a POC can have when encountering racism, be the racist encounter violently intentional or just plain naive.
I’ll disclose here that I’m a white person and its taken me a while to get to the point of realizing that when I ask that question it DOES put the person telling the story in an awkward position. I think some of us do it/have done it because we felt helpless as allies when hearing those stories and want to hear that our POC loved ones have processed the incidents in ways that left them feeling resolved about them.
We clearly have so much work to do if we are to ever offer love and friendship to POC without constantly putting them in the position of educating us in the context of our relationships with them.
A friend once told me that the best way to understand it was to compare it to a woman being asked how she reacted to someone sexually harassing her because it places the onus on her to a. not have ‘invited’ the behavior and b. take responsibility for ending the encounter.
Another problem for us is that we don’t know how best to react ourselves when we see this shit, especially because there’s no single way of doing it and we aren’t born with these skills.
I usually speak up myself, depending on the context, but that certainly can’t satisfy me or the POC involved because we both know my racial privilege is at work when I’m taking another white person down a notch. Other white people are obviously more likely to listen to me than to the person they’ve verbally assaulted because of the credit they automatically give me and that makes it very problematic for me to do what I did for years which was to feel good about challenging racists when I got the chance.
I’ve adopted the imperfect strategy over the past couple of years of asking close friends and/or coworkers who have related similar stories to tell me what kind of reaction they would appreciate from me in that type of situation, if its something they’ve thought about etc.
Thanks again for this post, I’m going to send it to some other friends of mine who could learn a lot from it.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 5:22 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:
marge, the overall reaction was stunned silence. And then when I started crying (darn it!), some of my friends in the class came up to hug me. Most of the people in my class were not the people responsible for the more horrific incidents on school…but there were plenty of people in there who’d known me for years and sort of had that “Black people are *fill in the blank* but you’re different” attitude toward me. And one thing I said to them is that every time they tell an insensitive joke, or laugh at one, or make a sweeping generalization, they’re saying it about ME. I hope that hit some of them. I don’t know that it made a lasting impact on anyone but me. But I felt better for having spoken up.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 5:43 pm ¶
stankerbell wrote:
I’m usually in the same boat as other’s… I’m not one for witty comebacks and I’ve noticed that the older I’m getting, the less patience I have as well and I’m more willing to engage someone.
Nowadays, it’s not the remarks themselves that anger me, it’s when after I’ve corrected/confronted someone, I get the “you’re being too sensitive” remark or “I didn’t mean it that way, I’m not a racist”, “can’t you take a joke”, or the myriad of other excuses that I hear.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 6:02 pm ¶
marge twain wrote:
jvansteppes, don’t be afraid to be a vocal ally. To continue your analogy: imagine you’re a man who sees his friends harassing a woman and doesn’t say anything to them because he is aware that he has more clout with them than a woman would. She’s probably looking around and wondering if all men are like that.
I do appreciate your unique dilemma and the thought you put into it. We should all see the ways our struggles intersect and seek commonality.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 6:10 pm ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
a puerto rican girl just came to my apartment and asked me if i wanted chocolate cake..
an hour before there were two lesbians, one asian, and a colombian boy hanging out on my couch.
this morning i spent riding around with an african american girl, a girl with a black mother and white father and one white girl.
i basically had no encounters with any one not in a minority today except the one white girl, and a white woman behind a counter and a white man at a printing company.
you made assumptions about me because i am white,
not that it should matter but
my favorite author is toni morrison
because
she is simply AMAZING
i ve only been to church once in the last year
it was a black church in town.
i prefer to be with people who are kind and intelligent and fun..
i spent the other night with a group called manos unidas
which is to unite all marginalized people
hey…
you know what?
you don t know me
and you judged me
i am defending myself to you
why?
you lumped me into a pool of people without a clue to how i live my life…
do you think if i went to a parade that would educate me? understand your experience?
ok i will try that
but i dont picture it…
you are doing to me what s been done to many
groups….
was that a see -how - do -you like it experiment?
i should have known better than to join a blog
it was my first foray into it…
but i was educated.
i go to a lot of diversity day events and conferences and this is more of the same.
…….
its just talk
and every one is afraid to say anything to anyone in fear of looking racist or prejudice…
or uneducated or insensitive…
or being told to go to a parade
again
in the end
its kindness, compassion , respect and humor that matters to me and its the only thing that will lead to change..
because i cannot change my color or your experience..
and my foot will probably end up in my mouth over and over
but my ears will be open.
so cosmicsistren
i am still sorry i said lighten up
but i m angry about your response
feel free to email me directly if you want to get to know ME
vfanarjian@aol.com
wow
i sound so hostile so defensive
im just frustrated by the universal misery and misunderstanding in the world
should i hit the send button
will it get in more trouble
should i ?
should i hit delete button instead?
send ? delete?
oh no
cosmic..
forgive…..
me…….
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 7:30 pm ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
wow
i sound like such an idiot.
sorry everyone.
white idiot girl without a clue.
really
i am sorry
i sound like the pompous, self serving jerk i am…
i cant fool anyone.
i reread the other blogs and will send these around to my friends
if even one learns something we will have made a difference.
cosmic.. write me.
ill take you to the parade and buy you whatever you want.
if you dont mind being “e: friends with an idiot.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 7:46 pm ¶
squidfly wrote:
POC isn’t that Intel for Colored People?
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 8:34 pm ¶
squidfly wrote:
Look, slurs, and demeaning comments in this day and age, do not deserve silence they deserve to be shamed and outed, plain and simple.
Racists are skilled in the Bushwhack comment.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 8:37 pm ¶
spyhop wrote:
I feel like I have to say something re: t0 what degree POC should bear the burden of educating racists/objecting to racist comments and jokes. Well, you know what, I think it is both unfair and less effective to say that POC should bear all or even most of that burden. I believe that the majority of the burden of making racist comments and jokes socially unacceptable has to fall to white people. Objecting to racism is not simply a matter of standing up for one’s self or one’s family and heritage, but of standing up for humanity and fairness, and that is the responsibility of all people. So not only is it right for white people to speak out against racist comment, it is also easier for us, as priveleged people in such a situation, to speak out, AND more a more effective rebuke, coming from someone the racist sees as part of their group. When every person who tells a racist joke to their friends is met only with objections, that will be the end of racist jokes.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 9:56 pm ¶
Cynthia C wrote:
Squidfy,
That’s why I prefer the term “non-white.” It also sounds less…marginalized.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 10:03 pm ¶
Alex wrote:
What I find so frustrating is that people react with “Oh my God, they SAID that? what did you do?” when you tell this kind of story, and yet, if they were present would THEY have done anything? Does anyone else in the room ever do or say anything? Once again, the burden is on the victim to react to the situation, even when they are wildly outnumbered, with no ally in sight.
Lily’s mom: did you ask your husband how he feels about you standing up for him? who cares what some random person told you.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:22 pm ¶
Nancy E wrote:
I find I’m more likely to speak up if I know the person. For instance, my boss recently raised the James Watson chestnut about a correlation between intelligence and race, to which I responded, “You don’t really believe that, do you? It’s ridiculous.” Conversely, I once shared a table at a busy Starbucks with a stranger, to whom I gave my paperback when I was done because she had nothing to read. She, in turn, proceeded to tell me that she loved to read but that her “Jew ex-husband” wouldn’t let her buy books because “you know how stingy they are.” Now, I’m Jewish…and I was floored and left almost immediately without saying anything. I was pretty much shocked into speechlessness.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:27 pm ¶
marjorie wrote:
Spyhop,
I agree with you. White people should have the primary responsibility for objecting to racist comments they hear. The use of the n-word will never stop in the South unless it’s shunned by white people, as one example. Some POC say they would like to be a fly on the wall in a room full of white people. I agree with one of the other posters that it’s tribal to a degree–there are plenty of POC groups who would talk about not only anglos in a way that they wouldn’t if a white person was present, but about other POC groups as well. Likewise with anglos. But there is an essential difference: white supremest patriarchy and its effect on POC and women. As a white person, I consider it to be similar to a disease, and we’re the ones who have to cure ourselves of it. It’s not fair to POC to expect them to be the ones to speak up when it’s our disease. The question for me is doing it in a way that doesn’t make them by their simple presence my ally in that moment.
Likewise, as a woman I have the same expectation of men when it comes to misogyny. Is any reaction I have to sexist comments from men justified? Is it ok for me to slay a man in public for being just completely obliviously stupid? I suppose its debatable, but you know what? The thought of it tires me because it would be pretty non-stop. I want men to educate themselves, not look to me for impromptu lessons. Nor do I want to be the bitch having to react to every sexist man who opens his mouth in front of me. I want my male friends to do that and it’s a relief when they do.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 11:48 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:
Hmm. I also usually ask the “So what did you do/say?” but to any anecdote of people being bigots and assholes, regardless of the race/gender/orientation of the recipient.
I ask because it is useful to have empirical information of what works, what doesn’t, how people respond - and what should I do in similar situations?
As I posted a few days on another thread, I usually confront back - but still am too often deer-in-headlights, incoherently spluttery. Anger kicks in, plus that fight or flight adrenaline that resembles panic, which always accompanies confrontation.
“I’m sure there are many of us who couldn’t physically pass for white but really want to be that “fly on the wall” in order to really hear how these racist folks cognate their BS. ”
I’m a pink WASPy white, and so I hear a lot of what racist whites say amidst “their own” (ugh). I am pretty confrontational - I learned to be growing up a progessive in a conservative family and schools, and thus take “bitch” as a great compliment.
Explain as rationally as you possibly can why the comment is racist/etc. If/when they get defensive, be polite but persistant. If they are really obtuse, a well-honed glare of disdain and a comment like, “Wow, you really are ignorant and prejudiced. You must not read very much. What a pathetically isolated life you must live, never able to see beyond your own limited perspective.” Hopefully at least makes them think.
With racist jokes, I find it works to just look at them quizzically. “And…?” “That’s the joke.” “I don’t get it.” And then they start explaining, it’s “funny” because “blacks like chicken” or “Jews are stingy”. And I’m like, why do you think that? I have a lot of Jewish friends, and they’re all quite generous” etc. Eventually it backs them into a corner and they *may* realize that they’re spouting dumb stereotypes - and that it makes them just look like dumbasses.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 12:51 am ¶
Mark wrote:
As someone who is almost always mistaken for being Caucasian, when in fact I’m Half-British, Half-Chinese, I’ve had the terrible experience of some of my friends confiding racist thoughts to me, thinking that I was just white. What did I do?
Sadly, in most cases, nothing. What could I say? I just quietly stopped talking to them. One thing I did learn was that exploding in their faces never helped. I tried to talk to them about it, but when someone you think is reasonable just comes out and says something that sounds like it belongs in a Nazi speech, what can you say? I just lapse into silence.
Maybe if the racism was directed against me, I would have reacted more strongly. But it was only directed at others. Sometimes I feel like a coward for not confronting them on their racism.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 5:03 am ¶
cosmicsistren wrote:
I want to publicy apologize to Valerie and anyone else that I might have offended. That wasn’t my intention at all.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 8:54 am ¶
valerie fanarjian wrote:
apology accepted…
and one more thing…
some of us can stand up against ignorance,,
and some dont have the stomach or feel that a comment would make a difference…
i get agitated for a million things a day.destroying property,disrespectong an elder and on and on..so i m speaking out for many more than me..
and my friends often cringe but mostly they say thanks.
so lets all capitalize on our strenghts and react
in ways that feel good for YOU
for some
it could just be wrting on a blog so someone else will hear your words…
and thats good enough.
valerie
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 10:14 am ¶
stupid white person wrote:
“I thought you stole it from an asian kid”. Really really sorry to be offensive with this question, and don’t answer if you don’t feel like it — but how is that statement racist? I truly don’t see it. Is the offense about the stealing part, or the asian part? I don’t assume asians steal any more then anybody else, and I have no reason to see that reading into what he said. It might have been intended as a harmless joke which didn’t come across well. It sounds similar to what I say to women who look younger then their real age.
It is considered rude to comment on someone’s ethnicity? “You don’t look asian” — where’s the offense? Is it at all possible to be so sick of racism that one becomes overly-sensitive to innocent remarks?
#16 Nadra wrote:
“I think it places an undue burden on POCs to constantly bear the responsibility of educating others about racism. I think it’s a burden we have to choose to bear selectively for the sake of our own psychological health.”
Not picking on Nadra in particular, it’s just that her first sentence is a common sentiment — and it bugs the #@!< outta me.
Do you honestly expect racist folks to educate other racist folks on why something is racist and harmful and unfair and depressing and just plain mean?
Do you really expect ignorant white people to be able to identify ignorant racist crap for other ignorant white people?
I’m getting the impression that oppressed groups view all racism as something which is done deliberately, intentionally; and that a horribly stressful confrontation will always result from discussing it. Or am I misreading the situation?
Also, Nadra slipped that word “constantly” in there, and that’s important. Personally, I think it’s unfair to automatically assume that any member of an oppressed group is willing to explain anything to a stupid white person, ever. But us stupid white folk ain’t gonna figure this out on our own, yanno?
Just a suggestion, but how about saying, “um, that’s kinda racist but I don’t want to deal with the subject right now, go bug someone else about it”? Frankly, even that would help me to be not such a stupid white person, because then I would at least be able to go online and leave the question for someone to answer — if they felt like it.
And to reiterate, is it at all possible to be so sick of racism that one becomes overly-sensitive to innocent remarks?
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 10:27 am ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:
“Do you honestly expect racist folks to educate other racist folks on why something is racist and harmful and unfair and depressing and just plain mean? Do you really expect ignorant white people to be able to identify ignorant racist crap for other ignorant white people?”
I expect that people other than the person or group currently being attacked can recognize and confront racism. It is a societal problem, and the burden of fixing it should not be on a vocal minority. White =/= ignorant. People have a responsibility to educate themselves.
“I’m getting the impression that oppressed groups view all racism as something which is done deliberately, intentionally; and that a horribly stressful confrontation will always result from discussing it. Or am I misreading the situation?”
There are many nuanced types of racism. It can be deliberate or bred from ignorance. It can be blatant or subtle. It can be personal or institutional. And yes, it’s always stressful and puts people on the defensive when you call them on their prejudice. Even if the person ends up being receptive, it’s still a big burden on the confronter.
“Is it at all possible to be so sick of racism that one becomes overly-sensitive to innocent remarks?”
Possible? sure. Is it the reality for most people of color in this country. No, I do not think so. And there is little more frustrating than experiencing racism, sharing the story with someone, and having them tell you that you are overly-sensitive and over-reacting. Who is the best equipped to recognize racism? Probably the people who experience it regularly, right?
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 10:58 am ¶
marge twain wrote:
“Just a suggestion, but how about saying, “um, that’s kinda racist but I don’t want to deal with the subject right now, go bug someone else about it”?
Um, white person, that’s a terrible idea. Sometimes the person is your friend, your boss, your grandmother. Diplomacy is necessary and reacting does have consequences. People who espouse racist ideas could be anybody of any race. They don’t have a birth defect. The people who post on this blog have to struggle with our own racism. Stereotyping others is our reptile brain’s way of anticipating danger, but in the multicultural and multiracial society we live in, it benefits us all when we question our assumptions and see whole people with equal potential.
Also, if reality tv has taught me anything, it’s that even white people who use the n-word will go apolectic if someone calls them racist and will vehemently deny it and possibly break things, so great is their rage at being misunderstood.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 11:36 am ¶
marge twain wrote:
sorry, APOPLECTIC
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 11:37 am ¶
marge twain wrote:
thesciencegirl, I want to co-sign on your whole post. Well said:)
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 11:39 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Though I think Carmen held her own as a guest blogger at Talking Points Memo:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/01/why_should_white_people_fight/
She brings up a topic that I’d like some of the white commenters on this thread, especially those who feel it’s the primary responsibility for fighting racism falls on white people, to dialogue about. Carmen says:
“I wholeheartedly agree with Ta-Nehisi when he wrote: ‘At some point, this has to move beyond a ‘do the right thing white people’ discussion and become a ‘this is for the good of America’ discussion. We have to start convincing people that closing the racial gap helps everyone.’
If we’re going to get people on board with fighting racism, we need to appeal to their enlightened self-interest in some way. But how? If we define — as many activists do — racism as a system that benefits whites at the expense of people of color, then how do we convince those reaping the benefits to change the system?”
Instead of derailing this great thread, would you all mind answering this at this post:
http://www.racialicious.com/2008/04/01/why-should-white-people-fight-racism/
Thanks!
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 6:32 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
“You don’t look asian”
But why WOULD someone say this? Sometimes it’s even said in the form of a compliment, which is inherently demeaning for obvious reasons.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 6:40 pm ¶
Jay wrote:
Do you honestly expect racist folks to educate other racist folks on why something is racist and harmful and unfair and depressing and just plain mean?
Do you really expect ignorant white people to be able to identify ignorant racist crap for other ignorant white people?
I’m getting the impression that oppressed groups view all racism as something which is done deliberately, intentionally; and that a horribly stressful confrontation will always result from discussing it. Or am I misreading the situation?
The problem is it doesn’t matter whether it’s unintentional or not, it’s still going to hurt.
And unfortunately a horribly stressful confrontation will result from it, because your natural reaction is to be defensive. North American society teaches people that racism is bad, and evil, and is horrible; thus, people tend to be very defensive when they’re accused of it, to the point of being irrational (you’re the racist for bringing up race! I don’t see race!).
Try thinking about it from our perspective; we’re not only expected to be the experts when sometimes we might be trying to figure it out ourselves; we’re also expected to say the right things or risk becoming ostracized from the group. So it’s not a surprise we can actually get tired of “explaining”.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 7:29 pm ¶
stupid white person wrote:
Okay, thanks very much for responding. I appreciate it!
#51 Sciencegirl wrote
“I expect that people other than the person or group currently being attacked can recognize and confront racism. It is a societal problem, and the burden of fixing it should not be on a vocal minority.”
Educating =/= fixing, at least for me.
Oh, you think two different things are identical! I understand your point of view now, thank you!! Imo “fixing” is the exclusive job of the racist person, but why the assumption that a racist person will always know to educate himself on the (very subtle) without being told?
Overt stuff is obvious, medium stuff is also, but the subtle things like “I thought you stole it from an Asian kid” — well that goes right over my head. Could someone please explain that, if they feel like it?
I supposed I am frustrated because twice now in the last couple years I apparently said something stupid, the very very nice black person got really quiet, and never spoke to me again. How exactly do you propose that I am supposed to understand what I said that was offensive if nobody every tells me? It’s not like I have any “power” over these folks, so that isn’t an issue. I thought we were friends, frankly; we talked about everything, including racism.
If I ask on a message board, the response is “it’s not our job to educate you, go read a 12,000 page novel”. Uh no. While fixing racism is my problem, I can’t fix what I don’t understand, and there’s no guarantee that reading a 12,000 page novel is going to answer my question.
“And yes, it’s always stressful and puts people on the defensive when you call them on their prejudice. Even if the person ends up being receptive, it’s still a big burden on the confronter.”
Oh, okay. Why the assumption that the friend is going to react negatively? Because other people have reacted that way in the past, it is appropiate to assume that different people will always react that way in the future? “I’m going to cry, and even though you personally have been very compassionate up til now, you have to figure out why I’m crying.” Please excuse my confusion, it sounds sort of wierd when phrased bluntly.
I’m not like that, though, it doesn’t upset me to be told I made a mistake, however I have noticed most people don’t seem to take constructive criticism well, no matter how politely it’s worded. Are members of oppressed groups any better in this regard?
“Who is the best equipped to recognize racism? Probably the people who experience it regularly, right?”
Well of course. But we can’t say that the oppressed member is always right, either. No one is perfect; sometimes people think they are right, and then it turns out they’re not.
I really do appreciate the people who have taken the time to respond. I want to understand, I don’t want to inadvertently hurt someone’s feelings, but I don’t know how to avoid it unless it’s just avoiding all contact with members of oppressed groups. I’m considered racist if I avoid them, and I’m considered racist if they say they are offended, and I’m considered racist if I can’t figure out why they’re upset. I hope you can see why this appears to be a strange attitude.
So “educating” is the same as “fixing” to you — that was a very helpful remark to my understanding, so thank you again Sciencegirl and Marge twain, and apologies again for causing offense. I will go back to lurking.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 8:52 pm ¶
stupid white person wrote:
I said I wasn’t going to post any more! Now I’m a liar!
“Try thinking about it from our perspective; we’re not only expected to be the experts when sometimes we might be trying to figure it out ourselves; we’re also expected to say the right things or risk becoming ostracized from the group. So it’s not a surprise we can actually get tired of “explaining”.”
Your comment was extremely helpful, Jay, thank you. And now I’m sorry I posted that #58.
How about if you cut yourself some slack? I don’t expect perfection; trying for the impossible creates a great deal of stress. I prefer to hear the truth, whatever that means to you, even if you think it’s bad. It’s probably not nearly as awful as you think it is.
I’m lurking. Pretend I’m not here.
Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 10:07 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:
*bangs head against wall*
Posted 02 Apr 2008 at 12:09 am ¶
deb wrote:
I really like Robert Jensen’s (one of my favorite ATR guests ever!) reason for preferring this term over “people of color”:
“But politically, white is not just white, of course. White is power. And using the terms white/non-white reminds us of that. What do people of color have in common? That is, what makes the category ‘people of color’ make sense? The only commonality is that the people in that category are on the subordinated side of white supremacy. Nothing intrinsically links people of indigenous, African, Latino, and Asian descent in the United States except their common experience of being targeted, abused, and victimized–albeit in different ways at different times–by white supremacist society. Take that category away, and the category ‘people of color’ vanishes. The people, of course, don’t vanish, nor does their color change. But nothing links them except the experience of oppression. And the group perpetrating the oppression is white, another socially created category defined by power.
“So, I want to put ‘white’ at the center, but not in the sense of valorizing it or claiming it as a norm. Just the opposite. I want to frame the issue as white and non-white to highlight the depravity of whites supermacy and identify it as the target. In this sense I think ‘white/non-white’ more clearly marks the political nature of the struggle, whereas ‘people of color’ for many tends to shift the focus from white supremacy to the varied cultures of those non-white people.”–The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism, and White Privilege
Posted 02 Apr 2008 at 10:30 am ¶
marge twain wrote:
stupid white person, here’s the problem I have, as an Asian-American, with “I thought you stole it from an Asian kid”: The waiter has a mental image of what an Asian person is supposed to look like(Bruce Lee?) and because Tara doesn’t look the same he assumes she isn’t Asian and that he knows what that would look like. It’s pretty irksome, anyway to have one’s race assessed and questioned by random people. That’s just not polite. I’ll try to explain why I feel that way, but I never have been able to explain to my white friends to their satisfaction why it’s not cool(”Hey, you can ask me about my background, I’m English-Irish-Italian plus my grandmother was a Cherokee princess!”)
I am ethnic Indian and non-Indians often ask questions about my background or nationality or what languages I speak. People also make basically harmless but not accurate assumptions like that I have strict parents who want me to marry inside my race or that I’m vegetarian or that my life bears some resemblance to “Monsoon Wedding” or “Bend it like Beckham”. I am American and being American is what I know, but other people’s well meaning fixation on my race jolts me out of thinking I’m me and establishes me as an “other”, someone who is the wrong race to be fully American. White people have even told me I’m not Asian-American, I guess because I’m not Chinese?
I’d like to not even hyphenate. I wish my race was not interesting to people because I someimes feel that it dwarfs all my other attributes and interests. What bugs me most, though are assumptions, and questions that are veiled assumptions. I would like to start with more of a clean slate when I meet people instead of being faced with stereotypes(since sept 2001 people think I’m middle-eastern) and then debunking or affirming them.
Finally, as long as you continue to ask questions and not tell people how it is. It is a little frustrating to read your posts that seem to tell me to chill when I don’t agree, but ultimately your perspective is a useful one. This is a safe space for people of color and as long as respect is there and you don’t make blanket statements about oppressed people, you don’t have to lurk here. I strongly believe that race should not just be a PoC issue.
Posted 02 Apr 2008 at 12:55 pm ¶
Anthony wrote:
I think the reaction described by the author is quite common to a lot of people who are conscious of such things – it’s hard to push yourself to speak out when someone says something discriminatory. I think this is especially true if it happens in an environment where the people in the room have no sense of decency or accountability.
I personally find it a bit more difficult to approach close friends about such things – there’s always the fear of making the situation, and thus the relationship, awkward. But I’ve been learning that friends who are worth it should be willing to be pushed, especially if it’s on a topic that affects you personally. I think that in interactions with strangers, we’ve been socialized into letting personal affronts slide, as “the bigger person,” and with strangers, it’s just a fear of making the situation uncomfortable for the people around you. So there’s the socialization aspect of being silenced into politeness, but then of course you don’t want to totally go off and exacerbate the situation.
One thing that I’ve started to realize is the need for allies to step in at a time like this. Sometimes, you’ll be (your) only ally, but it definitely helps to have someone else step in and speak for you, rather than having to defend yourself, which often goes badly. Sometimes, it proves more effective to have it coming from someone who will be perceived as “neutral,” or having “no stake” in the whole ordeal, and by proving yourself an ally, perhaps it will inspire someone else at the table to do the same later – perhaps for yourself.
Posted 02 Apr 2008 at 4:09 pm ¶
kriez wrote:
Hi, stumbled here while doing some research which has almost nothing to do with racism.
Nonetheless, I can’t help but read through everything and share certain thoughts. The reaction I behave towards racism varies, but I must admit I am sensitive to comments. Eventually, I analyze whether a person is plain joking using racial stereotypes or with hints of sarcasm and cynicism. Meaning, I search for the Intention. And, having (very close) friends of other races, I am all the more sensitive to comments made regarding their race and all the more so if I hear it from my family. Even though I do make some racist jokes sometimes, I know that my intention is not to harm or discriminate. And, I feel that to make a particular comment about a POC that you see, you should restrict it to that individual, and not attack the entire race he or she belongs to. We can’t help but stereotype but especially if it’s a demeaning characteristic you meant to say, I don’t think it fair (no pun intended) to lump an individual together with his racial group to condemn his race as a whole.
Regarding mixed bloods, I believe most people would find it cool over here~. I probably has less say because I’m still the majority (Chinese, over 50%) in my country (and fyi, people born in China and of the chinese race are Chinese, but not all Chinese are from China). Despite the way that our government is run according to a ‘Single Great Man’’s ideologies and how fake or forced upon the efforts are (successful to a certain extent), I must say that I do enjoy the racial harmony in my country.
So come on over to Singapore (if you have ever heard of it) if you need a tropical holiday without the real-white white racists bombarding their racist comments on your ear. That is, if you can find us on the map. (the red dot marking my country covers the entire island)
*p.s. I’m not trying to sell my country here but I really appreciate the somewhat slightly better racial issues we have here and of course, I’m proud of the place I’m born in. *wink*
Posted 08 Apr 2008 at 3:11 pm ¶