Notes from the road
by Carmen Van Kerckhove
I was in Roanoke, VA on Thursday and stopped into a bookstore to pick up the latest novels by Haruki Murakami and Paul Auster, two of my fave authors. As the lady behind the counter rang up my purchases, we had this exchange.
Bookstore Lady: You must get it all the time!
Me: I must get what all the time?
Bookstore Lady: You know… you look just like her!
Me: Just like who?
Bookstore Lady: Oh no, I was afraid you were going to ask me her name. Um… You know… Her!
Me: I don’t know.
Bookstore Lady: You know…her…the famous one!
Me: [confused silence]
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Cynthia wrote:
She could have at least mentioned someone’s name…whether you look like her or not. Some clueless papparazi guy once mistook my friend to be Zhang Ziyi, but wore it with pride and told couldn’t stop talking about it for weeks. We had to remind her that she thought Ziyi was the world’s biggest you know what.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:27 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
^^^and if she couldn’t remember the name, she could have mentioned a movie or tv show(or reference to a movie/tv show…i.e. if she was talking about Lucy Liu, then she could have said “that new show that’s kind of like Sex and the City”)
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:08 am ¶
Dumi wrote:
Dude, she clearly is a Racialicious reader and she was like, “hey it’s the woman with the acerbic wit, cogent commentary, fresh take on race and pop culture”… but couldn’t remember your name!
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:23 am ¶
london(2) wrote:
interesting… this has happened to me a few times… my best…once i was visiting a small town in england and was probably the only black woman to pass through there that year/decade….i stayed and feigned interest for a full 15 minutes just to see what a little old lady had to say…. i wasn’t in a hurry.. she got really uncomfortable and red and purple and slightly scared i should imagine as she thought i would be flattered and just leave after 2.5 minutes..eventually after going through a number of movies and me pretending not to know where she was going…then she said it.. whoopi goldberg… i told her whoopi was in fact my sister and gave her my autograph… she probably still has that piece of paper stuck to the back wall of her shop..
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:33 am ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
Carmen,
Maybe you should have started asking her random famous women’s names -
…Madeline Albright?
…Madame Curie?
…Vivica Fox?
…Suzanne Summers?
ect ect ect
(Of course, none of those folks are Asian - and that’s the whole POINT - just keep spitting out the names of random non Asian famous women …hell, even through a couple of men into the mix too!!! …until she admitted what random Asian person she thought you looked like!)
Apparently SOME White folks really believe that “all Asians look alike” (I’ve actually had people TELL me that!) so she literally could have meant anybody from Lucy Liu to Jiang Qing!!!
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 9:05 am ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
A bus driver once told me that I looked like Whitney Houston… then he asked me if I could sing… thing is, I look NOTHING like her… maybe Monica, but Whitney Houston? *shrugs*
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 9:49 am ¶
Brigitte wrote:
A friend of my husband’s told him at our wedding that I looked “just like” Tyra Banks when quite honestly, my looks are run closer to Grace Jones.
My husband though it might have been because his friend wanted to say something “nice” and he didn’t know the names of ANY famous pretty black women.
When people do the “who do you look like?” thing, I try to answer with something like Nipsey Russell, Judi Dench, or The Iron Sheik.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 10:10 am ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Three comments:
Carmen–Oy vey! Like you were *supposed* to help this woman insult you with her couched “all Asians look alike” statement. The “confused look” comeback is fantastically civil, but I would have done what Greg and Dumi and named off some random names until Bookstore Lady ‘fessed up to her ploy.
Cynthia–I’m confused. The Bookstore Lady opened the conversation and made the statement. And the woman’s intent was to give a back-handed compliment by insinuating that Carmen looked like some random Asian/Asian American woman and, by extension, that all Asians look alike. Why should Carmen have helped this woman by naming the possible people for her? In essence, why should Carmen have helped this woman slap her?
Brigette–Honey, I’ve been a victim of that one too, too, too many times. LOL When I told me moms about it, she said, “That’s (white folks’) way of saying that you’re pretty.” My response: “Damn, can’t they just *say* that you’re pretty? Or is that too much like right?”
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 11:01 am ¶
EVD wrote:
When I wore my hair in twists, I used to get “You look just like Whoopee Goldberg”. All the time. But only from white folks.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 11:19 am ¶
Joanna wrote:
In 24 years, the only two famous people anyone has ever told me I look like are: Julia Stiles, and the Disney cartoon version of Pocahontas. No joke. But I find that hilarious.
I’ve never been pinned as a Lucy Liu, despite my Chinese heritage!
But I have been called the name of my other Asian female coworker multiple times, by people who know me well.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 11:21 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
Cruel Secretary:
I didn’t mean Carmen, I meant the bookstore lady.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 11:39 am ¶
Andre wrote:
lol this is funny. Because sometimes people would tell me I look like Nas ,which is probably true. But I really can’t see the resemblance.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:15 pm ¶
Aja wrote:
I’ve gotten Whoopi Goldberg more times than I can count. Also Whitney Houston. Also Oprah. Three women who look nothing alike, but I look like all three. Interesting.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:23 pm ¶
Thea wrote:
People often tell me that I look Icelandic. What they really mean is that I look like Bjork (who has often commented on how she looks strangely Asian for a European person). Bjork ironically looks nothing like a typical Icelandic person ie she does not have blonde hair and blue eyes. Depending on the context this is sometimes a nothing comment, and sometimes it’s a odd way to comment on my ethnicity in a way that’s perceived to be non-offensive.
When this happens I’m sometimes tempted to scream “DO YOU MEAN I LOOK CHINESE????” Sadly I have yet to get up the guts to do that.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:33 pm ¶
johnjihoonchang wrote:
I’ve only been compared to a famous Asian person once–while I was an extra on the set of a movie, a gregarious older black woman insisted that I looked like Bruce Lee and a nearby young black man agreed.
Although I don’t really look like him, I guess it was better than being compared to Long Duk Dong or worse, Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany’s. My uncle, on the other hand, actually does have a slight resemblance to Bruce Lee around the lips and the jaw.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:51 pm ¶
Elton wrote:
What’s the point of telling a stranger that they look like so-and-so to your addled brain? The nuances of small talk, including talking about the weather and describing the dream you had last night in excruciating detail, are lost on me. No wonder I prefer writing to speaking.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:52 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:
Johnjihonchang:
In my experience, black people have had more trouble telling Asians a part than non-black people. Don’t know why.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
Marta wrote:
When I was studying abroad in Latin America lots of people told me I looked like this or that famous white actress. The only thing we had in common was that we were white and maybe had the same color hair. I found it funny, but I wasn’t offended. Somehow, it seems more offensive when it’s done to non-white people.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
jeblesoup wrote:
I bet that you were buying Murakami (one of my faves too) didn’t help your situation either.
I’ve been asked a few times if I’m Native America (or Cherokee once) and I look nothing like a stereotypical or nonstereotypical Native person except for the fact that everytime I’ve been asked that I have been wearing my hair in two braids. (I’m Asian and I’ve been told I look kind of like Sandra Oh by family members so I suppose I trust them even though it might just be because there aren’t that many Asian celebs to begin with.)
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 1:53 pm ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
I honestly think you might be exaggerating here. Why is it such an insult to be compared to someone else who just happens to be black?
Give these people a break. They’re probably socially inept, but trying to make conversation with a young, articulate women such as yourself.
Good grief, the number of times I have been told I look like Tandy Newton (albeit her fat version) is innumerable.
Oh, and while it might be un-pc to admit that all people of a different race look alike, they actually do. Most black chicks look the same to me, as do most white chicks. (Same goes for the males)
It’s terribly un-pc, but it’s just so true, so you really can’t blame the poor woman.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 1:54 pm ¶
TierList E wrote:
Er, I don’t think everyone in a race looks the same. As PC as I’m sounding I honestly don’t. Maybe people start to look more similar the less you are around them idk, but I’ve never had that problem.
Now I *can’t* tell where an E. Asian originates, but I can tell them apart as individuals. I do think people come in several broader ‘types’ so to speak, but even when they are in the same type I can tell those apart as well, with a little effort.
But I’m wierd- I can see similarities between people of two different races, of which many aren’t able.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:19 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
TierList E -
I feel the exact same way. While there are some shared characteristics, saying that you can’t tell people of X race apart is seriously racist.
Particularly when people choose such interesting ways to express themselves. It’s kind of like people saying you look like Whoppi Goldberg when your hair is just braided. Or with me - people stop me all the time because I look just like their classmate/cousin/aunt/niece. Half the time they whip out a picture and we see that no, we don’t look a like - we both just have prominent noses.
I think how you perceive other people depends on the importance you place on telling people apart.
As I have mentioned before, I grew up with a lot of Asian and Latino kids, and I remember how hurt they were when they got hit with a blanket “Mexican” or “Chinese” label when that wasn’t their country…and they took pains to tell people about their background.
So, as a result, I pay more attention to reading faces. Strangely, I generally can place an ethnicity, particularly from different parts of Asia. However, assuming would be rude so I figure if someone wants me to know, they would tell me.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:27 pm ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
Living in Cape Town and being surrounded by many different nationalities, it is best not to assume anything.
I’d also rather ask, but only if I really am forced to, otherwise it doesn’t really matter where someone is from. Or unless I’m genuinely curious to know.
TierList E, I think I agree with you to a point, except that I am around different races all the time.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:34 pm ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
“Oh, and while it might be un-pc to admit that all people of a different race look alike, they actually do. Most black chicks look the same to me, as do most white chicks. (Same goes for the males)”
Tarah,
Do you realize just how damned RACIST that sounds???
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:35 pm ¶
Jen* wrote:
wow. She could’ve been talking about anybody. I would’ve been confused, too. To me, this is one of those times when a person has opened their mouth prior to thinking. To not even give you a context, she could’ve been thinking that you look like Hillary Clinton or -shoot- Whoopi Goldberg (were you wearing braids, Carmen?).
A long time ago, my family went to the Olive Garden to celebrate a birthday, and we sat behind some people discussing the movie Sister Act. They spent the entire conversation talking about how much money Oprah got paid for that one, and how she was doing a sequel. We just sat at our table and cracked up.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:56 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
what makes this even more galling is that she can’t even name the Asian she was comparing you to! The famous “one”….
I’ve had someone tell me I look like Whoopi Goldberg. I don’t look anything like her. This man just didn’t know any blacks and popped out with whatever came into his head.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:58 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
*The Cruel Secretary cracks her knuckles*
Cynthia–
If I’m not mistaken, the Bookstore Lady was trying to prompt Carmen withe her leading statements into telling her which random Asian/Asian-American woman Carmen was supposed to look like. In other words, even though it appears that the Bookstore Lady was giving Carmen a compliment, she was really attempting to have Carmen verbally agree–through *Carmen* guessing the actress–the underlying racist statement that Asian/Asian Americans look alike. That’s why Dumi, Gregory, and I applauded Carmen for not helping The Bookstore Lady give her that back-handed (in this case, racist) compliment.
Tarah–
The problem is, after x-number of years of books, articles, blogs, and presidential speeches by people of color and white people articulating how to navigate social interactions between races, such social ineptitude is, quite frankly, inexcusable. (And the Bookstore Lady worked at, well, a bookstore. She couldn’t pick up “Race Manners” or “Race Matters?” Couldn’t browse through “Dragon Ladies: Asian American Feminists Breathe Fire” on her lunch break? Couldn’t Google “race relations”?) In this day and age–with all of this information–it just comes off as lazy (at best) or just wanting to be willfully ignorant (at worst).
And, no, Tarah, *all* people of a different race do *not* look alike. What you’re saying is that you—and Bookstore Lady, by your defense of her– simply don’t wish to take the time to differentiate one person from another. Being a bald-headed, milk-chocolate size 12 African American woman, I *really* want you to tell me that I look like Queen Latifah or Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama or even Halle Berry (or, for that matter, Tyler Perry). By your statement, *all* of us Americans of African descent look alike.
In light of the history in which *all* people of color are cast with such a broad stroke of looking=>acting alike–and kinds of hell we’ve caught because of it, i.e. racial profiling–that’s where the offense rest, Tarah. Because we’re all not alike, not even in looks.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:06 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:
Actually, I would have thought it was funny. If it happened to me, I would have said “yeah…Zhang Ziyi/Michelle Kwan/Ming Na/Maggie Q….get that all the time….*giggle sarcastically*” and then shoot the woman an evil look.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:11 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
I’ve been told I look like Raven Symone but a white lady at work……Not so much.
And people of a any particular race do not all look alike, ever!!! For the love of Pete! You may not perceive the difference but it’s always, always there. If you don’t want to take the time to look that’s fine but don’t use that to deny very real difference.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:12 pm ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:
@Tarah,
here is an honest question: have you traveled outside of South Africa? I’ve never been to SA myself but perhaps it’s true that most black chicks there look alike (as do most white chicks, most black guys, most white guys, most asians, etc.).
I can tell you for a fact that in every place I’ve lived (US, Japan) and visited (Canada, NZ, Singapore, Malaysia, Spain), that is not true.
Please elaborate on how you came to your conclusion. Do people just look the same to you?
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:13 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Cynthia–
…that’s just too much help as far as I’m concerned, but however you do it, in the immortal words of Tim Gunn, make it work.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:33 pm ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
EvilAngelfish, some weeks ago (or is it some weeks back? ) I met a white girl who resembles my sister.
I was struck by the similarity. It’s uncanny, really. It’s something about their eyes.
The Cruel Secretary - Hi. LOL @ *The Cruel Secretary cracks her knuckles*
Um, yes, sometimes people look similar. Especially in a crowd. Please let me not be the only one who thinks like this.
Celeste, why can’t they look alike? Yes, of course there are differences, but sometimes it just happens that two people who just happen to share the same race look alike. No big deal.
It doesn’t make you a racist to say so. Or, perhaps it does, who knows? But that isn’t the type of racism that gets people killed.
It’s not the type of racism that people like Biko and King and Parks and Mandela fought against.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:39 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
@Cynthia–
..points for the sarcastic giggle and the evil look.:-)
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:42 pm ¶
latorquemada wrote:
The Cruel Secretary writes:
““That’s (white folks’) way of saying that you’re pretty.” My response: “Damn, can’t they just *say* that you’re pretty? Or is that too much like right?””
Seriously, yes. But it’s not *YOU* we can’t say is pretty. White people can’t call anyone pretty. It’s not done. “You look cute,” or “you look nice” or maybe, among girlfriends, “you look hot” are the only appearance-based compliments that fly, probably because they are assumed to be based on something the person has *done*, like fix their hair or put on a nice outfit. If you tell someone they are pretty, then you are admitting that you judge people based on their intrinsic appearance, which is not acceptable (at least not acceptable to be spoken) in white culture. There’s also a second element that has something to do with the perception that people only compliment you on your looks when they are trying to get something from you, so telling someone they are pretty is sleazy or suspicious.
Or, at least, that’s how it looks to this white girl.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 4:03 pm ¶
deleahrium wrote:
I know this is weird, since the discussion has been majorly on the misidentification of people based on their skin color, but being a redhead, I get told that I look like other redheads ALL the time. This, specifically, leads me to strongly agree with Latoya that “how you perceive other people depends on the importance you place on telling people apart.”
I have been told I look like Julianne Moore (who is at this point more than twice my age) and had a friend in high school whose mom actually thought my name was Donna because she was so convinced I looked like Laura Prepon, who plays Donna on “That 70s Show”. I have never been told I look like any other white celebrities with blonde or brunette hair - only those known for having red hair.
I’m not pretending that my experience as an American ginger is equal to those experiences many of you have described as people of color, I’m just supporting the assertion that it’s a matter of some people simply not caring enough to distinguish individuals of another race in most circumstances, and then dumbly patting themselves on the backs for recognizing the similarities between a person and any celebrity.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 4:17 pm ¶
The Cruel Secretary wrote:
Tarah–
I’m sussing that, considering the responses (Gregory, Latoya, Celeste, TierList E, EvilAngelFish and mine so far), you may be more alone in your statement than you think.
Sorry, I’m not buying the “the madding crowd” defense. Even in a mono-ethnic or -racial crowd, no one’s looking too much alike–as Latoya stated so well, “Particularly when people choose such interesting ways to express themselves.” Again, I suspect what you’re doing at this point is trying to justify your racist statement of *all* people of a different race look like. Unfortunately, you’re grabbing at straws.
And, really, Tarah, you’re spitting on the struggle and legacy of King and Parks and Biko and Mandela by stating and rationalizing what you’re saying.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 4:24 pm ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:
Oh, I *do* hate to go back and forth but…
@Tarah,
there was a black girl with whom I went to high school who I thought bore an uncanny resemblance to Claire Danes. If you just read that bit, you might wonder, black girl, white actress, how can they look alike? It wasn’t complexion. It was their faces - same bone structure, same exact smile. I suppose this is not unlike the case with your sister and the random white girl you saw.
It is true that among any given population you will find individuals that have similar complexions, bone structure, facial features, dental anatomy, height, etc. but there is a broad range of variation, especially in large populations. To generalize that most X people look alike isn’t un-P.C.. It begs the question ‘are you really looking?’ And, in the States, at least, it is indicative of the sort of racism responsible for things from racial profiling to lynching.
Some interesting links:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec00/lookalike.html
http://www.pmuna.org/archives/2005/08/pmu_speaks_out.php
http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz/All_Black_People_Look_Alike
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 4:32 pm ¶
lurker wrote:
I had a recent experience similar to Marta’s - I’m white, female, and short-haired, and not long after I got my hair cut shorter than it usually is, my new roommate, who’s from Vietnam, told me I looked like Sinead O’Connor. I found it more amusing than insulting; after all, she told me she was a big fan of Sinead. And yes, it is different when you’re white, because you don’t have to deal with the everyday experience of being boiled down to a racial stereotype.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 4:36 pm ¶
johnjihoonchang wrote:
Cynthia: I actually just attributed it to the fact that there aren’t a lot of super-star level famous Asian males to compare to. It must’ve been the long 70’s-ish hair that I had, combined with the fact that we were all dressed to look 70’s (this was on the set of Semi-Pro, the Will Ferrell basketball movie). Definitely not a whole lot of famous Asian males from that era (in the US, that is). Of course, if I actually did look something like Bruce Lee, that would be awesome, because the man was in immensely great shape. Me? Not so much.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 5:07 pm ¶
Miss Profe wrote:
People can say some stupid, ignorant things.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 5:27 pm ¶
I read that too! wrote:
Haruki Murakami is the shit, by the way.
/unenlightened commentary
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 6:02 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
I read that too! -
Praise of Haruki Murakami counts as enlightened commentary on this blog. You are among your own kind
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 6:03 pm ¶
Cactus Lion wrote:
This is not exactly on-topic, but…
Gregory A. Butler - I thought it was a bit of a jump/slip that in your first post you wrote:
“Apparently SOME White folks really believe that ‘all Asians look alike’ (I’ve actually had people TELL me that!) so she literally could have meant anybody from Lucy Liu to Jiang Qing!!!”
…When Carmen hadn’t mentioned the race of the bookstore lady. Completely no disrespect intended to your larger point of reference/experience intended as your points (and snazzy comebacks) still stand, but interesting the assumptions we all make.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 6:31 pm ¶
Torontonian wrote:
@Tarah Sweeney:
I do not think that you are racist just because you think all people of a given colour look alike.
However, if you actually do live amongst people of various races and think that, then maybe you have a general problem with face perception. It’s possible that you may have a mild form of prosopagnosia.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:07 pm ¶
G. D. wrote:
To Tarah:
That WAS a racist and stupid statement to make for the simple fact that if ALL black people looked alike,hell, WE wouldn’t be able to tell each other apart—the same thing with Asians and other folks of color! I’ve seen white people that are very similar in looks to each other, but does that mean ALL white people look alike? No it doesn’t Like the other posters said, you simply don’t think black folks are important enough to distinguish from other–that’s just lazimess on YOUR part,nothing else.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:44 pm ¶
Brandon wrote:
Wow, that’s one vague bookstore lady.
She might as well said, “You look like that one person. You know, the one with two arms and two legs. Wearing the clothes. ”
Unless she was thinking about amputees or nudists…
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:45 pm ¶
HighJive wrote:
“I was in Roanoke, VA…”
That explains everything.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:50 pm ¶
deb wrote:
I encounter people of different ethnicities on a daily basis. So, without hearing someone speak or knowing their last name, just looking at someone, I have a good sense of which part of the world they come.
Not long ago I met a student with Asian features. I thought, “She kinda looks like she’s from Kazakhstan.” She volunteered that she was from “Kyrgyzstan. ” (When the movie “Borat” was out, I thought he couldn’t dupe me because, “Kazakhs don’t look or sound like that!” Well, not the ones I’ve met, anyway.)
For a while, I’d been trying to figure out the ethnicity of the proprietors of my favorite bagel joint. I thought, “They’re probably Thai.” I recently found out they are.
I’m African American; I think that’s pretty obvious. Yet, I’ve had people ask: “Are you Jamaican?” Or, “Are you Ethiopian?” One guy asked if I was from England. I said, “No. Brooklyn.”
In each case, I just thought it was nothing more than that person’s way of striking up a conversation.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:51 pm ¶
Ratrace wrote:
That’s what you get for stopping in Roanoake.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 7:55 pm ¶
miss girl wrote:
There was a brilliant scene in King of the Hill when Hank introduces Kahn to Cotton:
HANK: This is my new neighbor.
DALE: He’s Japanese.
(pauses and sniffs)
COTTON: No he ain’t. He’s Laotian. Ain’t you, Mr. Kahn?
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 10:21 pm ¶
Torontonian wrote:
Hey deb,
That’s quite impressive. I wish I could do that… How did you learn to do that?
I encounter people of different ethnicities on a daily basis as well, but I don’t want to ask people “Where are you from?” (I basically never ask people where they are from. There are people who I’ve known for a decade, and then I suddenly learn from Facebook that they are from country X instead of Canada like I assumed.)
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 11:14 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
Torontonian… I like asking “so, are you from around here”?
It’s a vague question that assumes belonging instead of assuming foreignness. It leaves them free to answer with any level of detail, racial/ethnic or otherwise, e.g. “I moved here a few years ago from Detroit” or “my parents are from Thailand” or “yes, I live a few blocks away”.
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 8:30 am ¶
Joanna wrote:
Tarah and everyone who responded to Tarah:
I must admit that I have the same problem, sometimes.
With people that I know, I have no trouble telling them apart. In fact, when I really pay attention, I think that all Asian people (for example) look so damn different from each other. Especially within my own family, I think everyone looks totally different from each other, probably because I’m so familiar with each person.
But when I’m not paying much attention, or am only dealing with strangers or people on TV or in a movie, I do sometimes have trouble telling people apart. This usually happens to me when I am watching a movie with a bunch of white men in it - I get confused and don’t know which character is which. This happens the most when I’m not totally engrossed in the movie. And also, when I am eating at a restaurant I usually don’t know which person is my server. That’s because I’m not paying close enough attention; and in that case I might not have noticed anything beyond the gender of the server anyway.
It could be that I just don’t put any mental energy into face recognition unless I’m really going to have to interact with the person later, or unless I have enough time to really take in what they look like. Maybe I’m just slow. But I also think it says a lot about how race and gender are so immediately recognized (along with some other things, perhaps, like body type or hairstyle or height) without me having to think about it! A bit scary, no?
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 9:13 am ¶
Orville wrote:
I was thinking that maybe the bookstore lady thought Carmen looked like Lucy Liu or Ming Na? Or a famous Asian female celebrity? Maybe the bookstore lady was star struck or something?
Sometimes people say ignorant crazy things I guess to create a context to someone?
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 9:52 am ¶
Sean wrote:
Well, at least it was only a bookstore clerk with that “all _________ people look alike” attitude. You simply haven’t lived until the ___________ Police Department thinks you look like someone else! As a black man, trust me on that one!
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 10:13 am ¶
Jen* wrote:
atlasien~
I like your question a lot better. Being a military brat makes it difficult to answer the question “where are you from?” - but being asked if I’m from around here [wherever “here” is] gives me the opportunity to more accurately describe my locational history than the usual - “well, I spent most of my time there, but I was also there, and I was born there.” - especially when people didn’t really care/I didn’t want to go in to all that in the first place.
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 11:05 am ¶
summer wrote:
@joanna
But I also think it says a lot about how race and gender are so immediately recognized (along with some other things, perhaps, like body type or hairstyle or height) without me having to think about it! A bit scary, no?
I agree, but I don’t think it’s scary — just human nature. i don’t think it’s necessarily racist to mistake two people of the same race if you just met them. i think it’s just a case of not paying attention. skin color and gender ARE identifiers. recognizing that in and of itself is not racist.
I think the issue comes in when you get other identifiers (e.g., personality, facial/body features, etc.), and yet, you can still only see the person in terms of color.
I had a professor who wrote my name on another student’s paper that he was grading — at the end of the semester. Not only was her hair natural, and mine relaxed (at the time), our personalities were nothing alike. that showed me that when he saw her name, he identified her w/me, and the ONLY thing we had in common was race.
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 12:02 pm ¶
deb wrote:
Torontonian, I deal with international students, so I’m more observant, and a bit sensitive to these things–now.
In high school I remember asking a class mate, how to say a certain word in Spanish. The girl politely responded that she was Eygptian. D’oh. I did it again with a young co-worker when I had a summer job while in high school. I thought she was Puerto Rican. Her mom was white and her dad was black.
I never ask someone’s ethnicity outright, or out of curiosity. Again, because of where I work, I have to know; it’s part of the job.
Depending on my environment, if someone says, “Im originally from Georgia” my first thought is usually “former Soviet Republic.” We had a work-study student who was Muslim. She told me she lived in Georgia. So, I thought former Soviet Republic, but she said, “No. Down South.” She was originally from Kuwait.
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 1:02 pm ¶
ephemeralentropy wrote:
a few anecdotes:
1: i was riding the dc metro with a friend when this (black) guy asks me if i’m that chick from “Crouching Tiger . . .” With attitude, I say no and turn to my friend saying loudly, “cause apparently we all look alike!” of course he heard me and explained that celebs come through the area all the time and look different when they’re “dressed down.”
2. i was at lilith fair (shows my age) and missy elliot was performing; the white people in front of me were trying to figure out who she was: “i don’t know, i think she’s Queen Latifah.”
3. i was doing a trolley tour (shows my geekiness) in St. Augustine, Fl and there’s a stop at the “Jail.” My partner and i are waiting for the trolley to move on when an “actor” dressed in an ol’ timey jail suit (you know, with the stripes) shouts out to me: “HALLE BERRY! HALLE BERRY! ARE YOU HALLE BERRY” it took me a minute to realize he was shouting at me (no one else was on the trolley); now I’m Cambodian American* so i didn’t think i could pass for a black person as i’m lighter-skinned, but i had big movie-star sun glasses on and i suppose that from the distance this man was standing, i looked close enough to Halle Berry for him to confirm. with attitude, i said “no.”
* btw: no cambodians in cambodia thought i was ethnically Khmer; got a lot of “you must be from: Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, or, according to my mom: a Vietnamese prostitute.
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 9:35 pm ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
“You simply haven’t lived until the ___________ Police Department thinks you look like someone else! As a black man, trust me on that one!”
Sean,
I see you’re confirming my “Alabama Highway Patrol theory of racial identification”!!!
Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 10:21 pm ¶
TierList E wrote:
Ah, a random thing about a post I wrote like ever ago- those ‘types’ were within each ‘racial group’. Like I find variations within i.e. white race, but even those that would fall under ‘white guy form B’ I’m still able to tell apart, though those are the kinds I’ll name switch a couple of times before figuring.
Posted 27 Mar 2008 at 5:28 pm ¶
marge twain wrote:
I’ve had black people, white people, and other Indians tell me “You don’t look Indian” which I HATE. Even in my family it’s said that I have “Chinese hair” If I feel like I can correct people without being rude I let them know that they should expand their idea of what an Indian person looks like.
I also get compared to black celebrities like Alicia Keys, Janet Jackson, Aaliyah(back in her day)I think I look more like MIA but it doesn’t bother me since those are obviously complimentary and there is SOME resemblance.
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 11:32 am ¶
marge twain wrote:
and YES my mom is fully Indian and my dad is fully Indian. I get asked that too. Some white dude even asked if my mom was friendly with the milkman!
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 11:35 am ¶
Sewere wrote:
I swear my sister has that condition when it comes to identifying me. While we were both in college, she kept going up to every black dude with short locks thinking he was me… But then again, she’s the typical absent-minded genius…
Atlasien,
That’s been my way of asking folks but it was a little dicey when I asked a bi-racial woman (Asian-White) woman at a party last month. She started telling me her mom was white and dad Chinese but I quickly saved it by saying she didn’t seem like the typical SF Bay-area kid….
EAF,
Getoutahere!! I thought I was the only one that happened to. I keep seeing a bi-racial (Asian and White) woman who is the carbon copy of my youngest sister. Same facial structure, height, body form, even down to the fact they both wear glasses!!! A very strong testament to the proof that there is more similarity in genes amongst people of different races.
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
enfantdunord wrote:
The problem I have had with people asking me “where are you from,” is that when I say “Canada, originally,” I often get a confused look or rude answer. Because of course they’re not really interested in where I was born or grew up. They’re trying to figure out my race, and then get frustrated when I refuse to just pop out a description of my complicated heritage for their satisfaction.
It makes people uncomfortable when they can’t categorize you, but I don’t see why I should have to go around making everyone feel comfortable about me because my appearance disturbs their idea of what a Canadian person, or an Indian person, or a white person, or a multiracial person should look like.
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 1:11 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
I know what you mean. People like to dance around the “what ARE you?” question but they still want to know the answer. So they ask me where I’m from. I say America.
They ask me where my parents are from. I say GA and PA.
Then they say - “No - what’s your nationality?” I say American.
Then they get frustrated and just come out with the question: “what ARE you??”
but nothing beats the time my sister and I were down on Canal and this random dude asks my sister what she is and she just answers “black and white” and he says - “but isn’t there a word for that?” (now we’re moving on - cuz this is a kinda weird dude) and all of a sudden it comes to him. He starts shouting, “You’re Milano*! Milano! That’s what you are!”
HA.
*we are not actually Italian.
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 10:18 pm ¶
enfantdunord wrote:
Hee hee, “Milano.” At least he didn’t call you “Moo-latte” - those Dairy Queen ads drove me crazy when they were really pushing them!
Posted 29 Mar 2008 at 2:17 pm ¶
Lily wrote:
I dunno, this has kind of opened my eyes but confused me as well: I was brought up in Geneva and went to an international school where about three of my classmates actually were “from” Switzerland. “Where are you from” was a conversation-started because so few were “from” where we were. So, even now, in my mid-twenties, my second or third question to people is almost always about their background. But this isn’t about race or looks; I’d be equally interested to learn someone was from Lancashire or Scotland…
So when does this stop being curiosity/interest and start becoming offensive? I obv understand that “no, where are you *really* from?” is offensive; I get it all the time now that I’m not in Switzerland anymore (I’m Swiss but my parents were both born Indian). Sometimes, when I meet a British Asian for instance, I’ll get excited that they might be of Indian origin, and then maybe that they might be from South India because I haven’t met that many Tamil people in Europe and I’m homesick for the language - how do you ask that without being offensive?
Or is it only offensive when white people do it?
Sorry if it sounds like I’m being disingenuous, with my idyllic childhood experience of multi-culturalism, I honestly feel at sea in this area.
Posted 31 Mar 2008 at 4:20 pm ¶