Comments

1. Cynthia wrote:

   Dude is right about Asians working harder and more often, but he could have certainly been much more eloquent about it (there are people in the Asian community up here who agree with him)! However, this guy is NOT known to be the most sophisticated person to walk this earth. The truth is, many people in the west, especially more socialist countries like Canada, are just more into taking time off. Especially if they’re not the finance types who are addicted to their Blackberries. Taking too much time off takes slows you down from a good career (I’m can go off topic here and rant about Canada’s 50 week maternity/parental leave, but I’m not because this isn’t what we’re talking about)

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 9:52 am ¶

2. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

   So, racist, sexist, homophobic AND bigoted against PWA’s?

   What a prizewinner!!!

   And I thought the New York City Council was bad!

   Cynthia - you know, the “positive” stereotypes are just as bad as the negative ones.

   So, just like you’d NEVER hear me say that Black men are better than men of other races at sex and basketball (cause it’s always wrong - not to mention stupid - to make a broad brush generalization about people just because of one shared characteristic) I think you might want to think twice before saying “all” Asians are “hardworking” and “all” non Asian Canadians “are just more into taking time off”

   And BTW, why exactly do you have a problem with 50 weeks of paid maternity/paternity leave?

   I’m American, and I WISH we had that here!!!

   You Canadians are LUCKY that you were able to win that from your government - so why exactly do you think it’s bad?

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 10:14 am ¶

3. Cynthia wrote:

   I’ll tell you what’s wrong with 50 weeks. It slows you down. From a feminist standpoint, it makes it harder to break the glass ceiling. You know how much a department can change over the course of even three months? A LOT. The evil woman who had the same title and responsibilities as you when you left to have your baby could be your boss by the time you come back. Your team and team culture could be very different. You lose out. Your title might even change. You are only guaranteed a position of equal level, not the SAME JOB (because teams can change so much) Since many people have two kids, that’s two years shaved off career-speaking.

   By the way, the 50 week maternity leave was meant for you to split with your partner (though it isn’t an equal 50-50 split…maternity is technically 15 weeks, with an additional 35 weeks of “parental leave”…the 35 weeks is where the split occurs), yet most women would take the full 50+vacation time (totaling 1 year or more) with the partner taking none of it…I’ll leave this whole thing to a future post on Prospere Magazine though.

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 10:30 am ¶

4. Compa wrote:

   Yebbut, Cynthia, your objection to the whole thing makes no sense to me. In Canada, we have the OPTION to take 50 wks of mat/parental leave. Not the obligation. And while Canadian men are a little slow on the uptake of taking advantage of parental leave, statistics do show that more and more Canadian fathers are sharing parental leave with their partners.

   The thing that makes no sense to me is that parental leave isn’t longer, given that it’s very difficult to find a child care space for the 12-18 month set (to say nothing of the under 1 year set). Extending parental leave to 18 months (as is I believe being floated in Quebec) would help to bridge that gap.

   I think the other barrier we have to look at is the dearth of permanent positions available to women of child-bearing age- remember that Canadians can only return to positions that are permanent, and can only get their 55% of pay when they have been working with the same employer for at least a year. This means that anyone on a 1 year (or shorter) contract is SOL.

   I’m not even going to bother to address your generalizations about Asian-Canadians because I think they’re silly and offensive- creating a myth to illustrate a point is only harmless when there aren’t real people involved.

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 10:50 am ¶

5. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

   Cynthia,

   Not everybody has a highpowered corporate job.

   If a woman is a carpenter, or a restaurant server, or a gas station attendant, or a bus driver, that whole “team and team culture” thing really isn’t that relevant.

   Not everybody is on the executive track…

   Beyond that, I don’t even want to touch the whole “evil woman” coworker thing - that sounds so high school!

   Aren’t we supposed to be grown folks here?

   Nobody on your job is “evil” (unless you work with Lex Luthor or the Joker or Catwoman or somebody like that) - so let’s cut out the drama, shall we?

   As for that “the 50 week maternity leave was meant for you to split with your partner” thing - Cynthia, I don’t know about how your world is, but in mine, a LOT of women are NOT married to the father of their child.

   Beyond that, even if they are living with the baby’s father, which partner actually has to carry a fetus for 9 months in an internal body cavity, have the baby leave their body through a bodily orifice (or surgical incision) and then has to nurse the baby with milk produced by their body for the following 6 months?

   I would think that partner deserves MOST, if not ALL of that leave time - or, better yet, how about BOTH partners getting the 50 weeks?

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:02 am ¶

6. Cynthia wrote:

   Compa,

   As far as I know, most women, especially women who have kids younger and are therefore less likely to be in senior management, often DO choose to take the full 50 weeks.

   Anyway, let’s get back on topic, because this is something that is really for another post, or even another board.

   Topic: I don’t understand why he couldn’t have talked about this (though in a more sophisticated way). Must we be SO sensitive these days? I mean, how CAN we address this issue?

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:08 am ¶

7. Celeste wrote:

   @ Cynthia,
   I don’t like positive stereotypes anymore than the negative ones. The positive ones always have a negative side to them so please don’t condone their usage, they’re hurtful, not helpful. Because you know what, if Asians are hard-working, then for some reason it means blacks and maybe latinos are thereby considered to be on the whole lazy. It it tempting to benefit from a positive stereotype but try to remember the other races that the short end of the stick.
   On another note:
   That Kern lady is completely out of her tree. I’m more worried abotu people like her infiltrating public office and education than I am about gay people.
   Also, I think the option to take that much time off is great. Does it mean that your career might suffer, yes, but at least you can make that choice to put more of your energy towards your family.

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:23 am ¶

8. nola wrote:

   wow…what a hate -monger.

   If it doesn’t work out for him in Toronto there’s surely a chance for him in Louisiana politics.

   The insensitivity is overflowing here - we boast such prizewinners as Rep David Duke, Sheriff Harry Lee and Mayor Ray Nagin…just to mention a few

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:30 am ¶

9. Fatemeh wrote:

   Wow. Just…wow, Ford.

   Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 1:01 pm ¶

10. Jay wrote:

    Dude is right about Asians working harder and more often, but he could have certainly been much more eloquent about it

    That’s not what Rob Ford said.

    There’s the comparison to dogs (which implies loyalty and submissiveness to a fault - like it or not there are going to be people who come away with that impression, especially when the stereotype is already there), and “they’re slowly taking over”, which often means “stop them by any means possible” (and also invokes images of yellow peril).

    “Positive” stereotypes always come with baggage. Always.

    On the other hand, I think Rob Ford really wants the attention - he’s known to pull a lot of things that get him in the news.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 1:45 pm ¶

11. Eva wrote:

    One has to be careful about “positive” stereotypes, they can easily turn to negatives. First they’ll say, ‘Asians are hard workers’, then it becomes, ‘Asians are getting all the good jobs’ and then it becomes, ‘Don’t want any more of THEM in our country.’

    And that Kern woman was off her rocker; if only she were than concerned about the war in Iraq or the economy in the US.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 2:31 pm ¶

12. Celeste wrote:

    @ Eva I agree with the potential backlash of a positive stereotype. I hadn’t thought about it that way originally. There’s no point in giving people a reason to hate on you.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 2:42 pm ¶

13. Cynthia wrote:

    Eva,

    Then how are we supposed to address the fact that immigrants, especially ASIAN IMMIGRANTS do often work harder than people who’ve been in around here longer? And the kids also get better grades. And are often more “accomplished” than Canadian-born children. How many white kids start classical music at a young age compared to Asian kids? When I started middle school, the bulk of the kids who had never picked up a musical instrument before were non-Asian. And these kids were from upper middle class households.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 2:57 pm ¶

14. Jay wrote:

    Then how are we supposed to address the fact that immigrants, especially ASIAN IMMIGRANTS do often work harder than people who’ve been in around here longer?

    Selection bias. You _have_ to work harder to be able to immigrate in the first place.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 4:08 pm ¶

15. Sewere wrote:

    Selection bias. You _have_ to work harder to be able to immigrate in the first place.

    Jay I owe you a year’s supply of your favorite drink.

    I will also add that the vast number of Asian (as well as African) immigrants post-60’s are the cream of the crop in terms of education and opportunity in their respective home countries. I’m talking about Engineers, Physicians, Lawyers, Academics. Perfect example, the vast majority of black students in the sciences here at Berkeley are children of Nigerian parents.

    Does that mean that Nigerian students are more hardworking than everyone else?

    Carmen, Latoya and/or Wendi I seem to recall one of you good people put up a post about the model minority myth and how it pertains to Africans but I can’t for the life of me find it on google and have to rush off to class. I’ll come back and find it.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 5:19 pm ¶

16. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    The article Sewere is talking about was written by Wendi Muse for the Coup Magazine:

    http://www.thecoupmagazine.com/content/view/45/47/

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 5:24 pm ¶

17. Sewere wrote:

    Thanks Latoya.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 8:20 pm ¶

18. Torontonian wrote:

    @Cynthia

    Asians work harder than other people? That’s news to me. I thought it was pretty well-established that immigrants tend to work harder than native-born Canadians because of self-selection.

    I really don’t understand how you came to that conclusion, Cynthia. Apparently, you live in Toronto, which has the second-highest foreign-born population in the world, yet you are somehow unable to correctly see the pattern and instead rely on cliched stereotypes. Even my Chinese mother knows that it is the immigrants who work crazy hard and are focused like laser beams, and that I, a Canadian-born Chinese, am super lazy and privileged compared to that Russian student.

    I can’t wrap my mind around why you’re like this, Cynthia. It’s as if you live in a segregated bubble of Toronto consisting of only wealthy whites who want to believe that Asians are the model minority, and wealthy East Asians who want to believe that they got where they are because they worked harder than everyone else.

    Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:26 pm ¶

19. Lisa wrote:

    Gah.

    The use of a picture of Bali is pretty hilarious - because them Balinese are sooooo hard working, what with the beach lolling and the surfing and the semi-poverty.

    It’s not that all “Asians” are hardworking and into piano. It’s that most 2G East and South Asian-Americans come from families that were amongst the elite in their home countries as well. If your past 20+ generations were educated and wealthy, well, those patterns and pressures will damn well be passed on to you. Whatever race you happen to be.

    Sigh.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 6:32 am ¶

20. Cynthia C wrote:

    Torontonian,

    You may be super lazy according to your immigrant parents, but you probably aren’t lazy compared to people who’ve been here for generations. And Torontonian, very few Asians, especially in Toronto, have been here for generations.

    But yes, you’re right on the segregated part. I don’t exactly live in the most diverse part of the city. I don’t think I ever have (most neighbourhoods have skewed Jewish, in fact…when I was in kindergarten, up to 80% of the class would be absent during Rosh Hashanna)

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 6:33 am ¶

21. Cynthia wrote:

    Lisa,

    My dad grew up in a working class family and my mom was barely middle class. Yet, every single one of my cousins grew up middle class and played piano, whether they were in Canada or Hong Kong. They weren’t exactly children of Hong Kong’s elite, growing up. However, every single one of my first cousins have university degrees (or about to get one) and most will be making high five/low six figures by their 30s.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 7:23 am ¶

22. Maysie wrote:

    I was one of the people who wrote an email to Rob Ford, and this is the response I got:

    “Thank you for your email. I appreciate you sharing your concerns with me.

    I sincerely apologize for any offense my comments may have caused, it was not my intention. May I please have your phone number so that I may discuss this with you personally?

    Thank you,

    Rob Ford
    Councillor Etobicoke North”

    Needless to say I didn’t call him, but a friend of mine who complained got the same email and he did speak with Rob, who simply apologized on the phone.

    Rob Ford said he would not make any public apologies or acknowledgment that his words were offensive.

    He’s an embarassment to Toronto.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 8:21 am ¶

23. James wrote:

    Maysie wrote:

    He’s an embarassment to Toronto.
    ______________________________

    Let me fix that for you Maysie:

    He’s an embarassment.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 9:29 am ¶

24. Orville wrote:

    Rob Ford needs to apologize ASAP! I am from Toronto and I was horrified at his racist comments! 680 News in Toronto broadcast Ford’s comments so he can’t say he didn’t say it because I heard it on the radio.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 10:45 am ¶

25. Big Man wrote:

    NOLA equated Ray Nagin with Harry Lee and David Duke.

    Wow.

    That’s so funny.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 1:32 pm ¶

26. Nia wrote:

    LOL… I’m still on the “he apologized to 15 to 20 people who contacted him”

    He’s pretty much in the same boat as Sally Kern… pe0ple feel that when in office they have the right to say whatever it is they feel no matter how offensive.. that may be true in theory but when you run for a public office put a muzzle on it.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 3:17 pm ¶

27. Torontonian wrote:

    Cynthia,

    I know very few people who are more than second-generation Canadians. Even most of the white people I know are ethnic whites, and second or first generation.

    The first time I met a sizable number of people whose parents were born in Canada was in university. They (multigenerational white people) didn’t seem particularly lazy, but they were much, much richer than me. I felt they were smarter, too, because their parents were professors and/or had PhDs, etc., and it was like they were always five steps ahead.

    Also, even if your family was not, to you, of Hong Kong’s elite, I bet your family members in Canada were accepted as immigrants to Canada only *after* they received their university degrees. I bet the working-age ones were admitted under the “Skilled workers and professionals” category, not the refugee category. In the “Skilled workers and professionals” immigration category, you get points for university degrees, professional work experience, and even for having $10,000 CAD in your bank account.

    Even if the immigrants in Canada started off poor, they were admitted to Canada largely because they were the rich and successful ones, due to both luck and hard work. The ones that worked hard but were unlucky are not going to be admitted as Canadian immigrants, because they wouldn’t have enough economic points.

    Don’t draw conclusions from biased samples.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 7:13 pm ¶

28. G.D. wrote:

    To Cynthia:

    The average immigrant (here in the States and anywhere else) has to work a little harder to make it in their adopted country for the simple fact they have to: learn a new language, learn how the infrastructure of the country works, its history—it isn’t necessarily because they WANT to work themselves to death to make it—it’s because they HAVE to, to some extent.

    Here in the US, we’re been hearing for the longest time about how immigrants work harder—mainly if they’re illegal, which means they can be worked to death with little regard for their health, or paid little or nothing under the table for their efforts. Usually they’re so grateful to get ANY paying work, and they come from countries with no unions, job benefits, health insurance and broken/busted economies, so they put up with a lot of BS that legally would not be tolerated in a regulated workplace, like sometimes only getting paid whenever the boss feels like paying them,etc.

    Also the whole “immigrants work harder” thing has always been used as a club to beat black folks over the head with, to make it seem like we’re too lazy (which is a straight-up myth, I can tell you that firsthand) and ungrateful to do hard work. Well, if you’re an illegal immigrant with NO rights,and NO support if you do speak up (you just get told that if you don’t put with the BS, there’s always someone to take your place, plus you’re be deported in an instant) of COURSE you’ll be a good little hard worker and not complain.

    Just a suggestion: Why don’t you get out of Toronto for a while and go visit places where everybody isn’t white/Chinese middle-class/upper middle class for a change? Come and check out downtown Detroit during the summer–it’s a nice place to be when all the summer festivals kick off–I go every year my dang self. I’m just saying,it sounds like you need more exposure to people who don’t act/think/live exactly like you,because everybody else in the world dosen’t live like that.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 7:33 pm ¶

29. Torontonian wrote:

    G.D. “Why don’t you get out of Toronto for a while and go visit places where everybody isn’t white/Chinese middle-class/upper middle class for a change?”

    Are you kidding me?

    Cynthia’s segregated little bubble of upper-class whites and Chinese is not at all representative of Toronto. You really, really have it completely wrong. Come see Toronto before you spout out ignorance. Don’t go to the downtown core where all the rich white people are. Go east to Scarborough, for example.

    “I’m just saying,it sounds like you need more exposure to people who don’t act/think/live exactly like you,because everybody else in the world dosen’t live like that.”

    I am so insulted! The vast, vast majority of Torontonians DO NOT act/think/live like Cynthia.

    GRRR!!!

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 9:04 pm ¶

30. Torontonian wrote:

    I’m sick and tired of how people think everybody in Canada and/or Toronto is white and affluent. People of colour are underrepresented in Canadian media! If all you know about Canada is what you see on TV, then you have a really skewed perception of reality. People of colour don’t often appear on Canadian media not because they are no people of colour in Canada, but because people of colour are being discriminated against.

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 9:11 pm ¶

31. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Hi Torontonian (and Orville, I figure you are around here somewhere) -

    Yes, your above comment (#30) is pretty spot on. A lot of people imagine Canada to be a place where race doesn’t matter (but most folks are white anyway) and there are good jobs and government healthcare and all kinds of cool shit. Unfortunately, I am not making this up.

    I haven’t been out of the US at all, but here’s what I know:

    1. People tend to call Canada raceless. That jives with some of the stories that I learned about slaves seeking freedom in Canada. (Obviously, that isn’t the end of the story, but some people think so!) And Canadians who come here (of which I’ve known a few) tend to act like race isn’t a problem.

    2. Canada is pretty white on TV. And fairly similar to the US. So watching stuff like Degrassi the next generation - or that one girl from Canada on How I Met Your Mother - feeds that Canada is just like America but cooler thing.

    3. I didn’t know ANYTHING about Canadian minorities until I started writing for this site.

    However, one of my friends did get to Montreal and told me it was a cool international city. Is that true?

    Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 9:34 pm ¶

32. Torontonian wrote:

    1. I don’t know what “Canada is raceless” means. I have not heard that before. I don’t know if it is saying that all Canadians are white, or that Canada is “colourblind”.

    Canada is officially a multicultural country (multiculturalism is a national policy), which is contrasted with the American model of assimilation. The United States thinks of itself as a melting pot, while Canada thinks of itself as a mosaic. Institutionally, Canadians celebrate hyphenated ethnic-national identities, like “Chinese-Canadian”. For example, I was taught about multiculturalism and the option of identifying as [insert ethnicity]-Canadian when I was in primary (elementary) school. (At all the public schools I attended before university, white students were the minority, and most of those whites were ethnic whites who had immigrant parents. Most of my classmates were (1) Chinese, (2) South Asian, and (3) Black. Other ethnic groups that were well-represented were Filipinos and other kinds of Asians. However, our teachers were relatively white.)

    Politically liberal and centrist Canadians celebrate multiculturalism. Conservative Canadians probably don’t, but conservatives are very few in Toronto and instead are strong in more rural areas of Canada. However, if you are against multiculturalism, you are kind of considered racist.

    Because multiculturalism is the status quo, and because Canadians want to believe that we are not racist (unlike the Americans, which we believe are racist), Canadians will often assert that we are not racist. There is a lot of incoming American pop culture in Canada, so we see a lot of your racial issues, while being blind to our own.

    From my experiences, Canadians are like American liberals. I don’t think we have the problems the United States has in the South in terms of explicit racism, Christian fundamentalists, etc., but we have serious implicit racism here. The “perpetual foreigner” syndrome is a huge problem! Because Canada’s immigration rate is one of the highest in the world (higher than the U.S.), I think people are getting the impression that Chinese people have been here for decades and have never learned English. I don’t think most non-Asian people realize that the new Chinese immigrants today are not the same as the ones a decade ago, especially since the earlier ones spoke mostly Cantonese and came from Hong Kong and the ones today speak mostly Mandarin and are from mainland China. (Most people don’t understand Chinese and that there are different dialects, so probably all they’re seeing is all-look-the-same Asian faces, and think Asians are perpetually foreigners that will never speak English.)

    Chinese are the largest visible minority group, but there are almost as many South Asians. The third largest is Blacks, and fourth are Filipinos.

    Most economic immigrants come here with university degrees and even advanced degrees, but they can’t get jobs because their foreign credentials are not recognized. We have a lot of immigrant people of colour with PhDs driving taxis and immigrant people of colour with MDs working as maids, etc. Most black Canadians in Toronto are of West Indian ancestry and many are highly educated, but they are also being discriminated against.

    On the other hand, because of our highly-educated, highly-skilled immigrant population, native-born Canadians don’t look down on immigrants in Canada in the way that many native-born Americans look down on immigrants in the United States (from Mexico who are mostly not of the selected educational and economic elites of Mexico).

    I have never met anyone in real life like Cynthia. I was pretty shocked that there could be someone who was demographically similar to me in many ways (female, second-gen Chinese Canadian of HK descent in Toronto) who acted and thought just like an oppressive white person. It was here on Racialicious that I learned that people of colour are not necessarily my allies (but Cynthia doesn’t identify as a PoC because it makes her appear “poor”, so maybe it makes sense). I would also tag Cynthia as of the top 1% richest people in Toronto and not representative of most people here.

    2. Canadian TV seems even whiter than American TV. When they show visible minorities on TV, especially Asians (like Chinese or South Asian), they almost always have thick accents and are recent immigrants.

    3. Yikes. Canadians are a minority on the Internet, and ethnic minorities are a minority within Canadians, so I guess our voices are barely heard.

    I only passed through Montreal briefly. It’s racially diverse there as well, but the coolest thing was English-French bilingualism.

    Generally, Toronto and Vancouver are the hotspots right now, with exploding immigration. Montreal used to be considered a cool international city, but has been eclipsed by Toronto and Vancouver for a while now.

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 3:09 am ¶

33. G.D. wrote:

    To Torontonian:

    You totally misunderstood where I was coming from when I made that comment. I’m very well aware that Toronto is considered one of the most multiracial cities in Canada–and I actually went there once,by train,on a fifth-grade school trip. I was saying specifically to Cynthia that she should expose herself to areas where there are more diverse people so she can be exposed to more expansive viewpoints of the subject of race in particular. I know she dosen’t represent all of Toronto any more than I represent all parts of Detroit.

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 4:36 pm ¶

34. G.D. wrote:

    BTW, on this site–www.afropunk.com–a lot of Torontonians of color post and let Americans knew the real deal about race up there.

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 4:37 pm ¶

35. Simone wrote:

    I’m a little late to the conversation, but I just wanted to address the issue of that picture. It looks like a picture of the lanterns at Toronto’s Chinese Lantern Festival, which was hugely popular last summer. The picture made sense to me, because it was showing Toronto’s version of cultural awareness and celebration of an aspect of asian culture. In fact, the whole summer here is made up of loads of cultural festivals, which is pretty cool, so we all have the opportunity to learn about each other’s cultures.

    One other thing I wanted to say is that while it is a problem that educated immigrants have trouble finding jobs here, hireimmigrants.ca is running a fantastic ad campaign sponsored by the provincial and federal governments. They have done other ads in the past, but their current one is available here: http://www.hireimmigrants.ca/resources/?resource=media

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 10:11 pm ¶

36. nola wrote:

    Big Man
    I meant my comment sarcastically. I said it out of bitterness.
    Ray Nagin is my mayor- I voted for him. I’m quite exhausted and disappointed by him.
    I would like to clarify that I believe David Duke and Harry Lee offend on a uniquely different level than Ray Nagin.
    However, all three are characterful politicians that are totally insensitive and unapologetic…much like Rob Ford.

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 10:55 pm ¶

37. Torontonian wrote:

    G.D.

    Okay, cool. But I still don’t see how “Why don’t you get out of Toronto for a while and go visit places where everybody isn’t white/Chinese middle-class/upper middle class for a change?” makes sense anymore, given your background.

    I don’t know how old you are, but fifth grade was a long time ago for me, and the demographics have completely changed.

    I saw “White Lies, Black Sheep” at the Toronto International Film Festival last year, and it was just awesome. It was funny and powerful, and showed just how broken “colourblindness” was. I wish I could have saved those quotes. Racialicious people need to see this movie.

    Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 10:58 pm ¶

38. Colin wrote:

    “I don’t know if it is saying that all Canadians are white, or that Canada is “colourblind”.”

    My belief is that those concepts are one in the same. Colorblindness is the white majority, at least in America, proclaiming that they are the norm and that all other racial and ethnic groups should just get used to it and STFU.

    People like Rob Ford and (ugh) Sally Kern need to be beaten in a race for their seat pronto. I’d love to do it, but I’m trying to arrange a deal to work on another campaign.

    They believe, honestly, that “Orientals” are hard-working enemies from within, part of a race war that whites MUST win, and that homosexuals have a secret “agenda” to destroy the nation that only they, the Fundamentalist Power Rangers and their crazy followers, can stop. The thought of these people in GOVERNMENT is sickening.

    Posted 22 Mar 2008 at 4:40 pm ¶

39. G.D wrote:

    To Torontonian:

    I’m in my late 30’s (so,yeah, it’s been some years since this trip happened) and that comment was directed toward Cynthia, not you. Like I said, I’m well aware of how the demographics have changed since then—plus I watch CBC Channel 9 in Windsor (we get it here in Detroit) to keep up with what’s happening there. and elsewhere in the Great White North. Also, Toronto’s been promoted down here in the States as the “L.A. of Canada” due to its vast diversity. I would love to go back there for a scond visit if I ever get the chance.

    I haven’t heard anything about “White Lies, Black Sheep” here in the States–I need to look it up–I’m interested because the director also did the black punk rock doc AFROPUNK, as well as the site that bears the same name—there’s a small number of Canadians of color that have posted about how rampant racism really is in certain parts of Canada,and how bad it can get. I think the whole “color-blindness” thing is just plain ridiculous—there is no way in hell you can NOT see somebody’s color, and there is no reason you should have to deny the reality of someone’s race/gender to the point where you can accept only on a certain level—it’s pretty obvious somebody (i.e. white folks) who dosen’t have to deal with the realities of racism made that $%# up.

    Posted 22 Mar 2008 at 6:24 pm ¶

40. Lainad wrote:

    Black Canadian lurker here…

    First, for anyone who is interested, I interviewed James Spooner about White Lies at the Film Festival last year.You can find it here:

    http://www.afrotoronto.com/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=1&ed=1

    Thanks Carmen / Racialicous for posting this news item. I actually remember reading about Rob Ford in The Star, was going to comment on it at Blogher but ended up posting on the US presidential election instead.

    Hmm where to start? Stereotyping, whether good or bad is offensive, especially from someone who is supposedly representing his constituents - probably an ethnically diverse group of Torontonians. Statements like Ford’s are divisive as there is an assumption, not only by Ford but apparently a poster here, that other ‘immigrants’ or poc’s are not living up to the standards of what a Canadian should be providing to the wonderful mosaic of Canada.

    As an Afropunker from waaay back (2003) G.D, I have also noticed a number of Torontonians and Canadians from other provinces on the site. I think it is easier to talk about their experiences and opinions online and with a forum of Americans who are more vocal about race relations. I find in Canada, we are indoctrinated with the belief that we should be ‘grateful’ that Canada ‘allowed’ us to be here, to obtain an education and a job and our parents, ususally first-second generation Canadians, buy into it.

    Me? I was actually born in Toronto, grew up in the country three hours away and my parents…..well, my mother is about a sixth or seventh generation Canadian of English / Irish decent and my father is 1st generation Canadian from England. My experience is pretty rare, but I certianly understand the unwillingness to openly speak about race in Canada. So when people meet me, they automatically assume that I am a ‘Immigrant’ and the stereotypes about Jamaicans start, and what I find troubling is that - and maybe this is partly because of how Canada’s multiculturalism policy is set up - well, maybe more because we do not have a stong sense of Canadian ‘idenity’ or nationalism -things that we all can share simply by living here - that other poc’s buy into the racist stereotyping. this, like in other countries, leads to stereotyping and segregated communities and while Toronto is lauded for it’s diversity, it is a bullshit smokescreen as people really don’t like each other and it seems that ethnic groups are all fighting with each other to see who can curry favor with the white man first. I live in a heavily diverse nighbourhood downtown, and while I love being surrounded by people from various countries and experiences, no one really wants to know about the other person. They would rather just either ignore you or treat you like you are beneath them. Sad.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 7:31 am ¶

41. Cynthia C wrote:

    I would really like to know what people’s definition of “diverse” is. Some people would look at a typical Toronto area private school with boarding and call it “diverse” because they see lots of minorities there (even though most minorities are Chinese or South Asian…and more than half of these minorities are not local, but foreign students on visa) while others won’t see it as “diverse” because most of these kids come from wealthier families (and yet others who don’t know much about these schools will call it “a bastion of WASPiness”). Culturally, some might not see the school as “diverse” either, because like it or not, most non-white kids whose families can afford such an education are more “westernized” (which comes to the question of what it really means to “act” your culture. I can say that taking piano lessons from age 4 to high school was a “Chinese” or “Asian” thing while another person would say that it’s a “white” thing because pianos are a western instrument). But maybe this is a class thing (hey LaToya, are you going to post more on race and class?).

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 10:47 am ¶

42. Torontonian wrote:

    Lainad,

    Nicely-written interview.

    I think first-generation Canadians buy into racist stereotyping and belief that we should be ‘grateful’ that Canada ‘allowed’ us to be here, but I can’t see how Canadian-born Canadians would accept that second-class citizen mentality. As I was born in Toronto, I believe that being treated like a full Canadian is my birthright, not something to be ‘earned’.

    My foreign-born Chinese Canadian parents buy into the racist stereotyping about Asians, and believe that Chinese people are more successful because they work harder. (They also use ‘Canadian’ to refer to white people.) I point out their BS, and even that it contradicts with what they told me about how people in Hong Kong were extremely lazy (and uneducated). It’s wishful thinking, and comes from the need to justify the privileges they have and feel superior.

    As for people ignoring you in Toronto, it might be because Toronto is a large city, and randomly striking up a conversation with a stranger makes you look creepy and weird.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 11:26 am ¶

43. S.A / Candian Beauty wrote:

    SMH Rob For is an idoit and it saddens me that he represents Toronto in any shape or form . I won`t even rant more because even acknowleding this arse’s exsistence is waste of my life =)

    @ Lainad I totally agree with alot of what you said but not with the whole “buying into that ideology ”

    Firsty, indoctrinated or not it is the truth . I will gladly accept it and preach it . Canada is saviour to many people providing them with oppurtunities to start a new or have a better life or just take advantage of our over trusting social system . Personally it has given me the oppurtunity to leave such a crime filled country and never have to hatrad of colour pushed upon my mind like my parents ( apartheid south africa ) . I believe Canada alongside my various life expereinces has taught me to be open minded and never to judge people based on race due to the strong multiculturims it projects, no matter how flawed that policy may be . I am glad and grateful to canada for allowing me to be here . Everything has its flaws but I would choose Canada over ANY other country =D

    We are at catch 22, we put so much emphasize on our many cultures that we do not recognize the common Canadian one we all share . . people would rather rep Jamica, US, South Africa, England, India, Trinidad, etc. over Canada . Also they make you do it to . Whenever I am asked where I am from first and foremost I say Canada but people never seem to accept that and contine to ask me where I am from until I dam near trace it back all the way to my ” ancestors ” .

    As for Canada being ” colourless ” . . . yea not so much . I have lived in Saskatchewan for some years before Toronto and had to deal with extreme racism . In my grade 2 class at the time as soon as I entered people treated me different. My twin brother and I got made fun and were called ” chocolate boobie head ” LOL its grade 2 remeber . but over the years after I educated them the best I could we became friends .
    Moral of the story : the praries alone refutes the “colourless ideology”

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 2:59 pm ¶

44. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Cynthia,

    Yeah, but I don’t think it’s going to be in the way that you think.

    I am finishing the conclusion to the Has Class Trumped Race series, plus a group discussion and an aside on Poverty. Nothing else is planned after that.

    Most diversity discussion does imply race and not class. Whether this should be changed is worthy of a conversation, probably in the context of Affirmative Action. (But then again, most of the AA programs I remember specified that the applicant must be of a disadvantaged background, so maybe even that has changed. I think there needs to be a whole post on how AA is implemented but that will be a while out as I am booked with assignments.)

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 3:11 pm ¶

45. Lainad wrote:

    Thanks Torontonian.

    Let me clarify. When I meant ‘ignore’ I meant not even treating you with the common respect you would even treat a stranger on the street. I’ve lived in Toronto for almost 20 years and don’t really need to have random people on the street to speak to me! Here’s an example:

    There is a family that lives in my building - I will not mention their ethnicity. They have a little boy - about 11 or 12 who has two little poodles. I have bumped into him on the elevator a few times and he lets people pet his two little dogs and makes conversation with them. The other day I got into the elevator with him and the dogs were sniffing at my feet so I reached down to pet them. The kid yanked the dogs away from me and glared at me. When the elevator stopped at my floor, the kid got off, which I though was strange as he doesn’t live on my floor. I inquired if he meant to get off and that it was the 6th floor. The kid completely ignored me and started walking down the hall. I thought to myself, fuck it, and went to my apartment and from looking at the kid, he realized he had gotten off and was heading to the stairs.

    It kinda irked me, but then I thought that maybe his parents had told him not to speak to strangers. I don’t know. But again I have seen this kid make conversations with white folks in the building (there are not that many!) so really I don’t know what the problem was. but I did find it interesting.

    Cynthia, in my opinion when I say diversity I am talking about ethnic / cultural diversity, not class, as half the time I don’t really pay attention to random folks enough to figure out what their economic status is. While I agree that it does play a factor, I think when it comes to racism, it doesn’t really effect how you are percived.

    Back to you Torontonian - oh no, I do not accept when people are not satisfied when I tell them I am Canadian and demand to know my lineage. But it is amazing how they just can’t figure it out how I can be in my late thirties and still be Canadian! Actually, my best friend and I are always mistaken as Americans whenever we go to a nice bar / restaurant for a drink!

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 3:15 pm ¶

46. Cynthia C wrote:

    S.A./Canadian Beauty:

    What’s really interesting is that I get the “where are you from?” question more often from immigrant non-whites than from white people, and these same people seem to have trouble accepting my Toronto answer. Even after I say that my PARENTS are from Hong Kong, they seem to go on and on about “your country” (meaning Hong Kong). Hong Kong isn’t MY COUNTRY and technically, it isn’t even my ancestoral country. Most of my roots are firmly in Guangdong with a bit of northern Chinese.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 3:33 pm ¶

47. Torontonian wrote:

    @S.A. / Canadian Beauty:

    Since you came from another country (I assume), South Africa, your view about your treatment in Canada is different from the views of Canadian-born people of colour. You are comparing your treatment in Canada with the treatment you would have had in South Africa. We Canadian-born people of colour compare our treatment in Canada with the treatment of white Canadians in Canada, and find it lacking.

    If you had children of colour in Canada, and your children were treated differently because of their colour and thought they deserved to be treated as full Canadians like their white Canadian-born counterparts, would you think that they were thinking too highly of themselves? Would you think that they should compare themselves to how people of colour are treated in South Africa, and thank Canada for letting them exist in Canada?

    @Lainad:

    Wow, I guess it’s because you’re black. I do find that there are foreign-born Chinese people who are racist against black people in the explicit way, and I try not to associate with them, but these people include my parents, etc., so I can only get away so far. I find that there is a huge difference in mindset between second-generation and first-generation Canadians, and even the same huge difference between second-generation and 1.5 generation Canadians. Even 1.5 generation Chinese Canadians self-segregate themselves into English-speaking groups of Chinese Canadians.

    I don’t know what the reason behind this is, and I think it’s more complicated than “racism comes from Asia”, but I think kids who were born and raised here are much less likely to end up explicitly racist like that.

    I don’t know what the ethnicity of that kid was, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was Chinese, so either way, what I say still applies. (I get to overhear Chinese people say racist things in private, so most of the racist things I hear are from Chinese people (all of these are foreign-born, so far). This is why I wouldn’t be surprised.)

    @Cynthia:

    Yes, for me as well, this “where are you from?” attitude quite often comes from non-white recent immigrants. I’ve had this non-white recent immigrant with a very thick, almost unintelligible, accent tell me that I had a (Chinese) accent because I didn’t speak like white people.

    I’m not sure if whites do it more or less than recent immigrant non-whites. However, non-white second-generation and 1.5-generation Canadians virtually never do that. I guess it’s because they’re in the same boat.

    Non-white recent immigrants who do it do it in a much more offensive way than whites and don’t realize how ridiculously offensive they are, though, I’d have to agree.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 6:25 pm ¶

48. Torontonian wrote:

    @Cynthia:

    Addendum - Or rather, non-white second-generation Canadians don’t do that because they are in the same boat, and 1.5-generation Chinese Canadians don’t do that because they call tell that I’m jook-sing.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 6:29 pm ¶

49. Torontonian wrote:

    *can tell

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 6:31 pm ¶

50. Orville wrote:

    People of colour we are definitely ignored in the Canadian media. I have to admit I am a bit envious of the American minorites. At least Asian Americans and African Americans can see their own races as TV reporters. On Canadian TV most of the news reporters are white. The news media is white, white, white. CBC Radio is white, white white. Yet Canada preaches about multiculturalism and all that bullshit. I think in Canada some people are a bit pretentious when it comes to race issues. In Canada people always say that if minorites don’t like it here we should move to America. Well at least in America people are a bit more honest about race relations. One thing I have noticed about the African Americans, Asian Americans, and Hispanic Americans is they are very ORGANIZED. They don’t take crap from anybody. Yet in Canada I feel too many minority groups are all about assimilating and fitting into the so called Canadian fabric. Yet the truth is the power structure in Canada is still so white. The mayor of Toronto is white we don’t even question it. The police chief in Toronto is also a white man we don’t question that either. Everyone just goes with the flow here. It makes me sick to be Canadian sometimes.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 6:56 pm ¶

51. Cynthia C wrote:

    Really Orville? Two of our Governors-General were non-white television personalities. In fact, Adrienne Clarkson had her own show long, long, long before Connie Chung was even in the picture! Other non-white television personalities include:

    - Harold Hussein
    - Ben Chin
    - <a href=”http://www.cbc.ca/programguide/personality/index.jsp?personality=Hanomansing%2C+Ian&program=Ask+CBC”Ian Hanomansing
    -Mary Ito
    - Miyoung Lee (ok, so she’s local, but she’s still non-white
    - Shaun Majumder
    - Most of the cast of Little Mosque
    - Marci Ien
    - Mi-Jung Lee
    - Omar Sachedina
    - Rena Heer
    - Scott Laurie
    - Pauline Chan
    - Minna Rhee
    - Gus Kim
    - Zuraidah Alman

    There are more, but I’ll have to dig them up. The above list is mostly of people who work out of Toronto, though some are from based out of the west coast. Most are news people, though I did list the cast of Little Mosque and comedian Shaun Majumder. Most are still active.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 9:10 pm ¶

52. Cynthia C wrote:

    OK…I can’t believe - Ian Hanomansing wasn’t linked properly. We really need a preview button here!

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 10:25 pm ¶

53. Torontonian wrote:

    Cynthia,

    Those are just examples. It’s still whiter than how Canada actually is.

    Here is a website you can explore about Canadian media: Too White: Minority Representation in the Media

    I also wished Little Mosque was set in Toronto instead of some small town full of white people. Not only would it encourage them to cast (more) non-white actors, but it would be more representative of most Canadian Muslims’ real experiences. Additionally, it would have been a more critical commentary on how Muslims are treated in Canada. It’s easy to laugh at small-town white people, and not think about discrimination in a multiethnic, liberal city like Toronto.

    But the script quality of Little Mosque is not that good anyway. . . That hick guy is so cliché. And the Muslims’ lives revolve around the mosque.

    Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 10:32 pm ¶

54. Orville wrote:

    Yes I stand my my statement that the Canadian media is very white it has a very Euocentric gaze and focus. Dionne Brand a black Canadian lesbian feminist wrote about this in her book “Bread Out Of Stone”. I co sign with Brand. The news in Canada is from a white gaze looking at the other.

    You mention some Asian Canadians but I notice very few Black Canadians on your list.
    Black Canadians we are treated as the ultimate other in the city of Toronto due to the pernicious racism and white supremacy.
    Also the reporters of colour you mention are either in the weekend ghetto, and not hosting the six o clock news.

    When Ms. Jean became the Governor General I recall a lot of racist editorials and articles like a wild fire in the Canadian media.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 12:17 am ¶

55. Orville wrote:

    Asian Canadians are treated differently then blacks and Aboriginals. I suggest you pick up Dionne Brand’s second non fiction book “A Map To The Door Of No Return”. Whenever the Canadian media want to achieve diversity they make sure black Canadians are off the list and that’s the truth. The reason why is the Canadian media has a propensity to demonize black Canadian people. I applaud Dionne Brand for speaking the truth and shattering the bullshit about this Canadian multiculturalism crap that shit does not exist it is a pernicious lie.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 12:20 am ¶

56. Orville wrote:

    The question has to be asked why are so many white Canadians on Little Mosque On the Prairie anyway? The show should have more actors of colour on the program but CBC decided they had to have whites on the show to reach a larger demographic audience.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 12:23 am ¶

57. Cynthia C wrote:

    Torontonian,

    Many non-whites in Canada don’t speak one of our official languages as a first language or default language (this is where I fall in. I can’t really call English my “first” language because I didn’t “officially” speak it until I was in kindergarten). How many television anchors speak English or French with an accent that isn’t traced to a culture that speaks one of the two languages (or both)? In terms of accents, the overwhelming preference is a standard CANADIAN accent, which will drop the stats even more. In addition, many non-white parents (or at least Chinese parents) don’t encourage their children to go into jouranlism or acting. You’ll really have to wait at least another half generation to see any real changes. It’s like having women in law or medicine. While there are lots of women who go to med or law school (half to slightly over half in most cases), you’re really not going to see any major changes at the senior partner level for another 10-20 years. Not until the men from the Old Boys’ Club are phased out. It’ll take longer now in Ontario, since the government has banned mandatory retirement. I’m somtimes jealous of women in Hong Kong…it’s so much easier to break the glass ceiling there…why? Because most women leave their jobs to take care of their kids. In Hong Kong, nannies are less expensive and easier to hire.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 6:19 am ¶

58. Cynthia wrote:

    Orville,

    There are lots of whites on Little Mosque? There are four main white characters on the show. Sarah, the Mayor, Duncan the Anglican Priest and Fred Tupper the shock jock radio guy. All other white characters are background characters. Besides, Mercy is a small town. You’re not going to expect lots of minorities in a town like that. I AM surprised, however, that there aren’t any Chinese/East Asian Muslims on the show.

    Also, when you mean Eurocentric, do you mean CULTURALLY Eurocentric? Many East Asians of a certain class are VERY culturally Eurocentric (but at the same time, very knowledgeable of there own culture). And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 7:19 am ¶

59. Kaonashi wrote:

    Damn, this dude seriously hit the trifecta of offensive!

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 7:04 pm ¶

60. DivergentDana wrote:

    “There are four main white characters on the show.”

    How is that not “a lot”, Cynthia?

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 7:15 pm ¶

61. Cynthia C wrote:

    DivergentDana,

    The show takes place in a smaller town in Saskatchewan. I wouldn’t call four main characters “a lot.” However, four main characters MAY be “a lot” if the show is set in Toronto or Vancouver, depending on what part of these cities it takes place in. Brampton? Yeah, four would be a lot. Forest Hill? Not so sure.

    Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 8:59 pm ¶

62. Orville wrote:

    I think “four” is too many just my personal opinion.Cynthia you don’t even question why CBC needs white actors on the program? I think the less whites on the show the better. The reason CBC hired these white actors is to attract a white audience. Doesn’ t you get it? Why can’t CBC hire more actors of colour anyway? Oops I forgot its the CBC.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:17 am ¶

63. Orville wrote:

    I believe this is the the excuse for CBC to have so many white actors on Little Mosque on the Prairie. The show is based in a small town in Saskatachewan and CBC will say this is the reason they need to hire so many white actors. I think the program could of worked better if it was based in a major Canadian city such as Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:24 am ¶

64. Cynthia wrote:

    Orville,

    I don’t think it would have been as funny in a bigger city because the premise of Amaar being a snobby former lawyer from Toronto (or another big city) wouldn’t work. The scene where Amaar asks for a cappuccino at Fatima’s Diner (and she puts whipped cream in his regular coffee) would NEVER happen in TO, in Vancouver or in Montreal. The show isn’t just about Muslim vs non-Muslim, liberal sects vs conservative sects, but also big city vs. small town. If the show took place in, say, Vancouver, then it wouldn’t be too different from movies like My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bend it like Beckham, where the plot centres around the first generation child and his or her crazy immigrant parents. That storyline is way, way, way overdone.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:53 am ¶

65. Cynthia wrote:

    ^^^first generation CANADIAN BORN/RAISED child (second gen to some)

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 8:54 am ¶

66. Anna wrote:

    You guys seem to be missing the point: there are also Caucasian muslims.

    The show is directed at EVERYBODY, not just POC.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 9:49 am ¶

67. Linda wrote:

    Torontonian I agree with you 100%. As a fellow torontonian, I can say that many Canadians are delusional to racial discrimination, racial demographics and definetly about Canadian history.

    People like to think Canada is a multicultural country, but that’s only in the urban centers. Multicultural should mean that there are high representation of visible minorities, in politics, education, and business. But this is not the case. If you go to Queens Park the majority of people u will see in the offices are WHITE. The majority of educators are WHITE, the majority of the people in history books, have WHITE faces!

    Have we forgotten about the the First Nations people in Canada, and their poor living conditions. Many people don’t seem to know JACK about Canadian history and the role that visible minorities have played in shaping Canada’s history. People act as if Slavery didn’t happen in Canada (IT DID) They forget about the fact that there are African Canadians, many live in Nova Scotia. The Japaneses internment might get one days worth of attention if your lucky; while you may get 2 weeks about hockey history.

    There is discrimination and racism it’s just not blatant. My boyfriend (Jewish) when we first met said the same thing that you (torontonian) mentioned, and he comes from an upper class family. Many of his friends ( have parents on the list of the top 20 richest families in Canada). He isn’t stupid and knows that racism exists in Canada.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:40 pm ¶

68. Linda wrote:

    As an added note to my comment above

    Visible minorities in Toronto are the majority, but do not have the majority of the money, or high paying jobs.

    Every time my company has a board meeting all the wealthy white men, who have homes all over the world show up! Where are the PoC faces at the board meeting? No where to be found.

    Also i would have to agree with torontonian, that Cynthia seems to live in a different Toronto from the one that we live in! But I will say that she’s not alone in here analysis of Toronto. I have met others with similar opinions, and similar backgrounds.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 12:53 pm ¶

69. Cynthia wrote:

    I’m sorry Linda, but Canada wasn’t that diverse when my parents came in the 70s. It’s really in the past 20-25 years that it did and things just can’t change overnight. I don’t understand why and how you expect city council (and even Queen’s Park) to represent the city when many non-whites aren’t Canadian citizens (and therefore cannot vote) or don’t really feel comfortable running for office. Do we know, exactly, how many non-whites in Toronto speak English comfortably enough to run for office AND are Canadian citizens 18 or older? And out of these people, how many WANT to run? It’s like the whole getting more minorities to work for the (federal) government scheme. In order to work for Ottawa, you need to be bilingual in English and French. Most non-whites are NOT bilingual in English and French (actually not too many white people are either…I’ve heard that many Ottawa employees are actually francophone. It’s easier for them to learn English than it is for an anglophone to learn French). I’d give it another 15 or so years. Complain then if nothing has changed.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 1:07 pm ¶

70. Alston wrote:

    Latoya,

    Living as a bilingual anglophone in Montreal, I would like to say that it is indeed a very cool international city. Maybe one of these days I will write a few things about the racial/cultural/linguistic tone of the place from my perspective. I think that it would fit right in here. I definitely wouldn’t mind a more Canadian perspective around here. By the way, I would love to hear from Western Canadians about race-relations, especially with Native Canadians.

    This site needs a forum.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 2:01 pm ¶

71. Jay wrote:

    The show isn’t just about Muslim vs non-Muslim, liberal sects vs conservative sects, but also big city vs. small town.

    Hmm, I wonder. Why do “small town” Canadian shows make it big in Canada (versus big city shows in the U.S.) - think about Trailer Park Boys and Corner Gas, both big hits in Canada.

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 5:16 pm ¶

72. Linda wrote:

    Cynthia, what exactly is your definition of diverse? Even though Canada is more populated than it was in the 70s there was still “diversity”. There were no large populations, but if you went to the right places you would find people from all different backgrounds; there were Chinese immigrants, First Nations, Black Canadian, Black Caribbeans, Black Africans, South Asians, Eastern European, Middle eastern. Hence why it’s important to share the History of PoC who were major contributors of shaping Canada, cause people seem to think all these ethnicities and races are “new” to Canada.

    I have family friends that have been here for several generations (Black Canadians), who would say that it’s time that PoC were represented more in Canadian politics, since the have been here for so long. They are not sitting around waiting for 15 years to complain about the bias in politics, and the representation of PoC. They like many other South Asians I know are getting involved. I hear plenty of people (even a council representative in the suburbs, who’s South Asian, told me about the hurdles, and barriers that PoC have to jump over to get into office. Heck you should read”you’re a little Black boy, go to school, by Lincoln Alexander.

    We should look into why PoC may be discouraged to enter politics, and I don’t think it’s as simple as not being comfortable in their ability to speak English! There are those who don’t see themselves being represented in society (especially not in a positive light) and feel ashamed, or not good enough. What about those who see all those White faces that have shaped Canada and don’t see a single face that looks like theirs?
    What about the immigrants who are raised here and are told they don’t have the family name, or money to be supported by the mainstream? And don’t even get me started on those that want to get involved but are afraid that people won’t except a PoC in office (reminds me of the comments from black posters in the states that are afraid for Obama). I’m sure there are many more reasons why PoC feel discouraged from getting involved in politics.

    And there are plenty of whites in Canada that are not citizens, and plenty of non-whites that are citizens.

    I don’t plan on waiting 15 years for positive change to happen and to complain. I do plan on being active, by encouraging youth to get involved in politics. I also support programs that encourage and support minority businesses, and getting the youth interested in their history and the contributions that PoC have made to Canada. To me it’s important to see positive images of yourself being represented, it’s encouraging, and can stimulate people to get involved in public office. This makes me think how right Charles Cooleys “looking glass self” theory is.

    I do happen to agree with you though on the bilingual thing!

    Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 6:54 pm ¶

73. Cynthia C wrote:

    Little pockets of different ethnicities isn’t “diverse,” Linda. “Diverse” would be some schools in Toronto, where you can’t even count the number of countries the kids’ families represent because there are so many. Sure, Toronto has always been very diverse, but in the past, many “ethnic whites,” have been Catholic, and they would likely have gone to schools in the separate board (at least in the elementary level).

    As for running for office: Many come from cultures where running for office isn’t possible. That’s why you don’t see many Chinese Canadians who even think becoming an elected official while more South Asians do. Canada’s first non-white Prime Minister will probably be South Asian.

    Family name: Often, it’s more connections than family name. I went to school with a CBC (Canadian born Chinese) girl who has had internships with politicians. How did she get it? CONNECTIONS. Her parents probably know someone who got her the interview and she was then hired. That’s why it’s good to keep in touch with your university’s alumni association (or even your high school association, if you have one). Even better? Join an organization where you can network with people.

    Politicians not really “representing” non-whites? If you mean issues like the lack of English as a Second Language classes, then sure, but Canada’s getting lots of Eastern European immigrants too. And they’re white, and they need to learn English.

    (btw, I have to admit that I don’t know ANY multigeneration blacks who live in the city. Everyone I know is second generation, third at best and identify with the Carribean communities.)

    Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 6:27 am ¶

74. Orville wrote:

    I think this blog entry is really interesting because Americans really need to know more about Canada. The myth that Canada is some utopia paradise needs to die. The pernicious racism that exists in Canada is so covert but powerful. I mean look at CBC, or the Toronto Star, or Globe and Mail its white, white white.

    The issue isn’t whether change is going to occur fast enough. I think the real issue is in Canada people don’t want to acknowledge the racial tensions and the truth.
    It is true look at the universities and colleges in Toronto very few professors of colour. Look at the Toronto City Council not enough people of colour in power positions. Queens Park in Toronto is all white. In America, in Louisiana they have a South Asian governor. In New York state the new governor is a black man. Also the state of Massachusetts Devon Patrick is a black man. No province in Canada has ever had a Premier that is not white. In Canada I don’t think we have ever had a mayor of a major Canadian city that’s not a white person. So in terms of the power structure the people in control continue to be white Canadians. Don’t you question this? Don’t you see what’s really going on here?

    Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 10:06 am ¶

75. Cynthia wrote:

    Actually, Orville, a South Asian man, Ujjal Dosanjh has been Premier of BC.

    Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 10:24 am ¶

76. Cynthia C wrote:

    BREAKING NEWS:

    Rob Ford has been arrested on charges of assault and threatening death. No word on whether this is related to the above incident.

    Posted 26 Mar 2008 at 5:27 pm ¶

77. James wrote:

    Cynthia, media is now reporting the alleged victim is his wife.

    Posted 27 Mar 2008 at 5:46 am ¶

78. Cynthia wrote:

    James,

    I’m not surprised that it’s his wife. Based on his history, he certainly seems to have issues…and lacks the “good polish” of what a politician should be.

    Posted 27 Mar 2008 at 8:13 am ¶

79. Josh Z wrote:

    Haha, that Sally Ford woman is a moron. “No society that has ever totally embraced homosexuality has survived for more than, like, a few decades.” Really, what about the ancient Greeks?

    Posted 01 Apr 2008 at 11:15 pm ¶

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