Intra-Racial Assumptions
by Racialicious Special Correspondent Latoya Peterson
My friend Spiff and I recently spent the greater part of a day at the National Portrait Gallery. I had wanted to check out Let Your Motto Be Resistance before it closed and I wanted to introduce Spiff to the greatness that was Recognize! Hip-Hop and Contemporary Portraiture.
After taking few hours to view and absorb the art, we grabbed a quick cocktail and parted ways. The next morning, I got this email:
I have to share: (If I had my own blog I would talk about this, but I don’t, so…) I was on the Metro on my way home after we parted Sunday, and an older black guy is sitting next to me and strikes up a conversation. I look nice and blah blah blah, am I enjoying the weather? He asks what I’ve been doing out and about today, and I tell him I just came from the museum.
He goes, “Wowww.” I just stare at him blankly; for the life of me I can’t figure out why that should impress him so. He elaborates: “I just don’t see a lot of folks - a lot of young folks - hitting the museum.”
Um…okay, I guess I can see that; I mean, I guess I can kind of understand that without being insulted by it; as if to say, because I’m young, I must have my head stuck up my ass and I can’t possibly spend my time doing anything other than trolling Facebook and practicing my schtick for when I become a reality TV star.
Then he elaborates some more: “You know, especially a lot of black folks…you don’t see…you know…going to the museums.”
Girl, it took every fiber within me not to smack this silly asshole. Because, okay: the young thing, I can get over, but the black thing just…I mean, the element of surprise - from a black man - at the fact that I am a person of color who frequents museums and finds stimulation in a wide breadth of activities, particularly in a city so full of culture…dude, WTF?!? I couldn’t in good conscience go off on him because this was an older dude, 40ish, and he seemed nice enough, seemed to be a bit of a nerd, which I adore…but where he lost me was the supposition that he was the only African-American person “of his kind” - or, excuse me, that he and I were some sort of rare breed, simply because we’re…what, intelligent? Artsy?
Increasingly as I was speaking to him, and trying not to let this fucker have it, I had the strange sensation that if I closed my eyes, I could just as easily be talking to a well-meaning, ignorant white person who was genuinely trying to be nice, but whose compliments were really just backhanded insults.
WHY SHOULD ANYBODY BE SURPRISED THAT I HAVE A BRAIN, TOYA, A CURIOUS, BEAUTIFUL MIND INSIDE MY HEAD, AND NOT JUST EMPTY FUCKING SPACE?
There’s a lot of middle class, um, “upwardly mobile” black people that need to get over this ridiculous fucking notion of a Talented Tenth. I guess that whole idea made sense for its time - although even then, within the context of the Harlem Renaissance, I have a big problem with what it’s suggesting, but…
I dunno, man. I expect more from a brother than such an egocentric mindset. And so hurtful to us, to black people. He’s no better than the white folks that have finally learned to stop saying about Colin Powell or Barak Obama: “Wow, he’s so articulate.” Like, of course I’m articulate, you dumb fucking cunt. What was I, raised by wolves?
On second thought, I guess I don’t score big “articulate” points throwing around phrases like “dumb fucking cunt,” even in the heat of anger
Ciao bella.
~Spiff
Funnily enough, something similar happened to me a few years back. I was on the metro, on the way home from class when an older black man sat down next to me. I wasn’t too frightened as he was apparently the train conductor - I just wondered why he choose to sit next to me. He made small talk for a few moments and then launched into this whole speech about how we, as a people, need to get things together. Then he decides to make his grand point:
“Now you, young lady, we can see that you have the body. You just need to make sure to develop the brains to match!”
Now, that mess would have been insulting, period.
It was more insulting as I was holding a chemistry textbook. I was trying to study before this guy decided to share his unsolicited insight on the state of black America.
What the hell man?
This also happens occasionally with black men I meet. They always seem surprised to find out that I have a brain and choose to use it on a regular basis.
Has this ever happened to you, dear readers? Or did Spiff and I happen across a few very random occurances?
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Tasha wrote:
Ah…when sexism and racism collide. Makes for interesting conversation to say the least. No you ladies have not been to sole recipients of ‘you special black person you’ and/or the ‘ain’t we smart n special’ talk.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:10 am ¶
islandgirl550 wrote:
It is for these reasons that I am ALWAYS screwfaced on the train and give anyone the GASSSSS FACE when they look at me sideways as I’m reading a book!
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:12 am ¶
khia213 wrote:
Not feeling this one. I do go to museums and theater and the opera when I can, and when I look around, there aren’t a lot of black folks. But then, there aren’t thousands of white folks there either. Those activities are not wildly popular with huge sections of the general populace. So that someone says “Oh, you go to museums?” isn’t an insult. It’s an observation. I think we’re being a little over sensitive here.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:22 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
khia213 -
Where are you based? I’m not sure where you are or what you’re attending, but the museums in DC are crowded - even with attendence dropping. Even the private spots can be packed if they hold an event.
As my friend Spiff said “particularly in a city so full of culture” - most cities have their own unique scenes, so I can’t speak to other places. But in DC, museums are free entertainment and easily accessible. The one we went to was directly opposite a major entertainment strip.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:27 am ¶
Jenn wrote:
I don’t know why the writer is so offended. I am a black woman and its been happening my whole life. I was walking to elementary school once w/my siblings and this old lady down the block said “wow I see that you kids go to school everyday”, while I’m thinking I didn’thave a choice on whether or not I went to school everyday due to my mother. But as I got older I realized many parent(s) in our community do let their kids stay home from school for no God given reason and don’t make sure they are in fact learning and doing homework.
When I was doing my Economic Statistics homework in college on a college campus another black student remarks w/ shocked expression me “thats a hard class”
They may have not put it in politically correct terms but the elders know what they are talking about, they see what goes on in the community. They know a lot of youngster aren’t reading and participating in cultural activities outside of usual Hip Hop dancing, fashion and rapping. And they know many black students aren’t heavily into the math and sciences/
Don’t take offense just realize that by meeting you their outlook on black youth may have changed.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:32 am ¶
j wrote:
I admire Spiff’s ability to keep things cool in that situation. I’ve been in that position so many times and I still can’t seem to keep it cool, it bothers me so much. What’s so messed up about it is when folks - black or otherwise - make assumptions about what you do or don’t like without even knowing a thing about you.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:36 am ¶
Dan wrote:
From that email, I’d say Spiff has some anger issues. What good comes from getting angry or offended at a random person you encounter on the Metro?
Instead of wanting to ’smack this silly asshole’ , why not attempt to be caring and inclusive. Encourage the man to visit some museums and check them out for himself. The museums are free and open to all people to enjoy.
If everybody went around being offended and angry at ignorant/ misinformed people, current society would be in a much deeper state of crisis.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:37 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
It’s weird. Many Hong Kong people in my circle are known for snobbiness and a preference to historically white organizations. Yet, if I say that I do community service with the Junior League, those who kind of have an idea of who the Junior League is think it’s “nice.” Others ask me why I’m not volunteering for more ethnic-based causes like seniors at the Yee Hong Centre.
I also know an Asian girl who joined a sorority at a university here. Instead of the usual “you mean there are sororities/fraternities in Canada?” question that white kids get, she got “aren’t sororities for white girls?” (most sororities at Canadian universities are historically white organizations, even at schools like the University of Waterloo and the University of British Columbia.)
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:42 am ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:
I don’t think the observation itself is what causes one’s hackles to rise. Often, it’s the tone or the look of surprise that accompanies the observation. It’s not so much “Oh, you go to museums too?” but “Oh, you go to museums?” I think the “Wow” here is especially telling – it implies that the man is hearing some strange, remarkable, or unusual thing, not just something uncommon. Perhaps if we polled every black teen and twenty-something in the country and asked them what they did last weekend, not a huge proportion would say “I went to the museum.” But would you really feel the need to exclaim “Wow!” if a few did? Perhaps if the reply had been “I was practicing my tightrope routine”…
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:59 am ¶
Niki wrote:
My pet peeve in this regard is when I’m on the bus or train and I’m reading a book and some man will say (perhaps as a lame chat-up line) “Oh, you must be smart” or “You in school?”. I could be reading a tawdry, fluffy novel but since I can read, it’s assumed that I’m engaging in some academic pursuit! LOL
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 9:59 am ¶
islandgirl550 wrote:
@Dan
Why would you say Spiff has some anger issues? Couldn’t it just be that she was tired of something that has happened to her time and time again? It’s happened to me and it’s exasperating. Not only was she probably annoyed with the guy trying to push up as most older men seem to do on the train, but then he went further and acted all ignorant. Why is it black women always have to be angry? I don’t think anyone needs to validate her feelings in order for them to be true.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:01 am ¶
Bryan from DC wrote:
I’m not feeling this either. I think you grossly overreacted to the man’s comment.
A couple of years ago my sister and I were wandering the halls of the National Gallery in downtown DC when an African-American female security guard stopped us and said how glad she was to see a young black people in the museum. Should I have been upset and cussed the guard out? Was she being an elistist?
Its interesting that you are ranting about him stereotyping you as a empty-headed youth, yet you describe him as a “nerd.”
It seems that there were a lot of assumptions made.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:11 am ¶
atownzz wrote:
I’m a lifelong midwesterner who is always shocked anytime I see another black person at the museum or a non-Tyler Perry theater production. So I don’t agree with Spiff’s strong reaction, but I can certainly understand where it came from.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:20 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
Bryan -
1. The quoted comments are from my friend Spiff. My experience with the conductor on metro is in regular text.
2. The situation you reference isn’t quite the same thing that Spiff is talking about. I have heard similar comments from guards, museum staff, and volunteers who are excited about seeing youth in the museums. They are generally happy to see that this cultural tradition is not dying out with the times.
That is different from a stranger initating a conversation with you and proceeding to inform you how shocked they are that you did not conform to however they stereotyped you in their minds. That is also why I included some references to my experiences. It’s like Evil Angelfish wrote above - it’s not generic surprise and happiness, it’s the shock factor.
And more specifically, it’s the kind of thing that young women like us hear quite often - oh, you want to be a writer? oh, you go to museums? oh, you mean you’re the boss and not the admin?
These kind of things are not unusual. So, to someone who hasn’t been subject to these kind of assumptions, it’s just an innocent comment. To someone who deals with these kind of assumptions day in and day out, you start wanting to smack the people who keep saying the same tired crap over and over.
After a while, you get proficent at spotting that funny look people get in their eyes once you have challenged the stereotype they applied to you. You see them literally trying to fumble for what to say. And then they finally come out with “oh, i didn’t think you…”
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:29 am ¶
Lisa S wrote:
I guess I can see why the comment would have been annoying, I think the post was a bit of an overreaction. It *is* true that not a lot of young people go to the museums. In the grand scheme of misinformed/ignorant comments, I would say this is pretty mild.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:44 am ¶
Heather wrote:
Hmmm. I think probably that most conversations with nerdy guys trying to hit on young, pretty girls include some sort of awkward statement. Or maybe he just genuinely hasn’t noticed many young black people at museums. Or maybe he just wanted to start a conversation with her about going to the museum and thought that might be a good way to do it. Even in the midst of the vitriolic email, it seemed like a gentle statement and not reflective of ignorance or bad intent.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:47 am ¶
Eva wrote:
I’m with khia213; I live in NYC and I go to the opera, the NY Phil, museams and the like often. It’s rare that I see many black people there, and when I do see them, they are like my age (forties).
I guess I don’t see why someone would be offended, I’ve had it said to me many times and it’s like, “oh well.” If I let everything upset me, my blood pressure would be higher than it is.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 10:51 am ¶
cw wrote:
You are being overly sensitive. If he saw more blacks going to museums, he probably would never have made that observation.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:01 am ¶
islandgirl550 wrote:
Latoya:
“After a while, you get proficent at spotting that funny look people get in their eyes once you have challenged the stereotype they applied to you. You see them literally trying to fumble for what to say. And then they finally come out with “oh, i didn’t think you…”
Exactly.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:09 am ¶
Rob wrote:
I’ll gladly take being mistaken as cultured and educated over being a potential thug with several kids. I feel like sometimes if I say anything to someone of the opposite sex/race They think I’m going to do something to them, yet if I don’t speak then that proves that I’m someone they don’t want to deal with.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:09 am ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
Spiff, Latoya,
On the first guy (the 40ish nerdy guy who was suprised that young Black women go to museums) - there is a mountain of self hatred among Black Americans. That’s because this country - and the folks who rule this country - have spent the better part of the last 400 years training us to hate ourselves.
That’s why you hear otherwise intelligent Black folks being amazed that a young Black woman goes to museums - because Black people aren’t supposed to be intelligent and cultured!!!
Making it even sadder, the guy (apparently a cultured man himself) was actually intending the comment as a COMPLIMENT[!!!] - probably as part of a nervous, fumbling attempt to hit on Spiff.
I hope he reads this post and recognizes himself - I bet the dude would be amazed to realize that he actually said something very insulting.
On the second guy (the metro conductor who told Latoya she’s “got the body” now she has to “develop the brains to go with it”).
Where do I start?
This guy was engaging in a type of street harassment - that is, thinking that it’s appropriate for a male stranger to make sexual comments about random women he doesn’t know in public.
At least the guy who tried to hit on Spiff was (in his own awkward self-hatred filled way) trying to make a connection with her (as the “sole intellingent negro”).
This guy was just perving (on a woman who was probably young enough to be his daughter) - mixed in with a whole lot of Barbershop Ideology stuff about how Black people are stupid.
I’ve had the same speech directed at me by older Black men before - except without the nasty sexual comment at the end, of course!
Basically, he was pulling the patriarchal card - he may be a Black person with a low status blue collar job - but he’s still a MAN and gets to be the judge of the bodies of women in public spaces.
A LOT of working class men do that (I’m a construction worker, so I’ve seen my coworkers - White, Black, Latino and Asian alike - do that kind of stuff a million times), in part because, in a sick twisted way, it’s them claiming the one “high status” element they have - their maleness - by contrasting themselves from and putting themselves above women.
Judging by some of the comments, the self hatred that these men felt for themselves (cause that’s what they were REALLY saying when they made those insulting comments to Spiff and Latoya) is shared by at least some of the folks who posted replies.
As for myself, not trying to front here, but I would never be “amazed” that a young sista goes to museums - and not just because most of the young Black women I know are the kind of people who do go to museums, art galleries, alternative cultural spaces ect on the regular.
Why is it “amazing” that young college educated women in major cities with lots of high culture activities are regular museum-goers?
It’s only suprising if you start off with the assumption that Black people in general - and Black WOMEN in particular - are stupid.
And that’s both racist and misogynist!!
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:13 am ¶
Lynn wrote:
I’ve had similar things happen to me, but I always look at it from an entirely different angle. I’m from the South, and I don’t think it colors my perception, but it very well may. The point is when older black people seem shocked at some of my activities–overseas travel, advanced education, being the boss, undying love for non-Tyler Perry theater–I see it as a pride thing. They are happy to see someone like me enjoy opportunities that simply were not an option for them at the same age.
When older black men do it, yes, I assume they’re also flirting a little bit. Most times it’s been harmless: they had no intentions of trying to hook up, and they just wanted to talk with an attractive young lady. Other times it’s grimy, and I quickly exit.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:20 am ¶
summer wrote:
ditto what lynn said.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:46 am ¶
handydandy wrote:
I also think the writer overreacted. I lived in a city that was home to a art museum. I went to it alot, especially on Wednesdays because if was free. I really didn’t see that many blacks my age there. I saw black families with small children or school groups there for fieldtrips, but I rarely saw young black people there just for the culture of it. Even when there were exhibits from black artisans, I didn’t see many blacks. So, although it is presumptious to assume that you are the only “cultured” black person alive, it is also presumptious to assume that the guy was being a egocentric dick just for the hell of it.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:51 am ¶
gatamala wrote:
I want to say that Spiff is overreacting, but I can’t. She is only venting to her friend. It’s not like she cut the man. Perhaps, I would not be so upset, but I definitely identify with the experience.
(1). LaToya, that guy who commented on your body was a stone cold perv. Gregory is right about him wanting to exercise the little bit of dominance he feels he has.
(2) EVERY time I walk by the Mass 54th relief (Glory) at the National Gallery, I mean EVERY time…the guards nearby (always middle aged black men) make sure that I go look at it. I go just to humor them. I guess the security guards can accurately gauge who comes in and who doesn’t, considering they stand in one spot 8 hours a day. Sure, there should be more of us there in the summer time. However, “we” are always there to some extent. Plus, locals are always jaded about what is quotidian to them.
****
Back in the day when DVDs were rented at Blockbuster I had a middle-aged black man tell me, “that film has subtitles.” I was insulted and wondered if he would have asked a non-black person the same question. Mind you this man did ask me to some old person concert at a later date.
I prefer to go to museums solo. I get stared at (visually tracked) by the National Gallery/Freer& Sackler guards to the point that I don’t want to go. However, nobody has questioned my intelligence or commented on my body (yet).
I must agree w/ islandgirl that this is why I have to invest in overear phones and shades. It seems that the only way to get through to these crusty old men is by being totally closed off.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 12:10 pm ¶
Laura wrote:
I don’t understand why people see this as over reacting. On one hand, it is true that museums have a hard time pulling ‘young people’ (i.e. out of school but not ‘middle aged’). Most museums are full of school groups and tourists (this changes depending on where you live, I’m sure, but this is true on average). On the other, I personally find comments about how its ‘great that you’re trying to better yourself’ to be belittling, but I don’t (want to) think that people are trying to do so. In this particular case, the man was -shocked- that Spiff was at least somewhat educated BECAUSE s/he is black. That makes the belittling a magnitude worse.
I also get “you’re smart AND pretty” quite a bit. Its annoying. And pervy. I think all women get this, to various degrees, mostly by men. (I’ve also heard this from older women)
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 12:34 pm ¶
Linda wrote:
I’m neutral on the subject matter. I can understand why someone would say that, when I go to a musical, Opera, ballet and even the museum I rarely ever see anyone that is young or even a minority; most are middle age whites. Plus these forms of activities are not CHEAP (makes me think of the posts about Class). But this is nothing new and does not only happen to Black people. My friend who is Filipina gets comments like that ALL the time from other Filipinos.
A lot of people are insecure and don’t like the thought of other people being smarter than them, prettier, richer…I could go on and on. I can remember a time at a friends party where a guy asked me what my Major was and I told him biochemistry, he said to me ” what are you trying to prove!” You better believe that I was offended!
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 12:41 pm ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
I am a South African who is semi-obsessed with attending book launches, art exhibitions et cetera.
The same thing applies to my area, Cape Town: very few people of colour attend these events. The ones who do, are in the industry themselves. This is why I get so excited when I see another coloured (This is an actual racial group in SA)girl at any of these events.
I actually attended a Podcast Unconference once. There were millions of whites, not many blacks and coloureds.
I spotted only one other coloured girl, and introduced myself: “OMG, I can’t believe I’m not the only coloured girlie here! Hi, my name is Tarah. What’s yours? Do you also blog? I’m a blogger. LOL. ”
That’s more or less what I said, LOL included. She wasn’t offended, she was actually glad.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 12:44 pm ¶
Char wrote:
I’m white, so I won’t even pretend to know what any of the writers have experienced, though I have lived in a country where I was the minority. What struck me as funny, was the fact that Spiff thought this guy was “old” when he was 40! Yikes, I think I’m on the downward spiral toward old!
Thanks for this blog. I am adopting an Asian child, and I’m trying to take the blinders off myself and question everything I thought I knew about race these last 30 years.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 1:03 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:
I want to add that “nice” doesn’t mean that they’re glad you’re doing it. It’s more of a mature/proper way of saying “what do you mean you’re in _________” if you know what I mean.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 1:17 pm ¶
Jack D. wrote:
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 1:45 pm ¶
Bryan from DC wrote:
Latoya-
Okay. I understand completely and I do recognize that funny look. I retract my earlier comments and thank you for your patience.
Bryan.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 3:33 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
Hey Bryan - No problem. A lot of people on the thread seem to think this post was about an innocent observation being taken out of hand, which it wasn’t.
I can see the points made from other perspectives, but again, this type of backhanded compliment is handed out way more often than we would like to admit.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 3:49 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
Okay here’s a suggestion for everyone who wants to be surprised at something positive/cool that someone else is doing : Stop being so surprised… Stereotypes may be based on some sort of aggregate truth, however, you have to allow for individual variation. People are individuals. The whole mindset about what certain combinations of gender and race can or tend to do is so confining and becoming more and more outdated. To be near-constantly reminded by perfect strangers that you’re not supposed to be doing whatever it is your doing is demeaning, especially while being a dirty old man.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 7:28 pm ¶
Jasmine wrote:
I think the older guy had a point. I’m a young Black girl and if he said that to me, I’d probably have to agree. I’d be mad, but I wouldn’t take it personally.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 11:04 pm ¶
Adrianna wrote:
This use to happen to me a lot in High school Of course i was called a snob, because of it. Fucking ignorant people.” How do you know so much about worlds news” or you speak 4 language!! Wow I didn’t know Haitian people were smart!” It was fucking annoying.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 1:13 am ¶
bdsista wrote:
Everytime I go to the Kennedy Center I look for the black people and am lucky if I can find more than 20 unless its Ailey or DTH and even then there are still not a lot. Being a middle school librarian, our students (of all races) really need exposure to culture. I have students in my school (which is in suburban MD) who have never been to a museum, have never been to the theatre. We bring Shakespere here to the school via a performing troupe. Learning to appreciate the arts has to be taught. Just as how to behave in those places has to be taught. We have to teach the kids, appropiate audience behavior. But in many cases, their parents have never gone and don’t see the value. In other cases, theatre is too expensive, or they don’t understand the exhibit and what its about. The last time I saw a packed exhibit in DC was when they featured, ” I Dream a World” photographs and the photographs of Gordon Parks whom many people remembered from Life and Ebony magazine. Grandparents and older parents (like mine) brought their children and grandchildren and what I loved was how they shared stories from memories the pictures generated.
I get how you felt insulted, but I would say, find a young person and take them with you the next time you go and help our young people learn to love the arts.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 9:15 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:
Great and insightful comments, all. (I wrote the part of the post, or I should say, the venomous rant, that my lovely friend Ms. Peterson posted). I will admit that I had certainly reached my boiling point, although of course I was perfectly courteous to the offending stranger, being that he was a stranger, generally well-meaning, and not deserving of a lashing from my acid tongue. But I had to get my feelings OUT, by means of the email to my home skillet, LaToya.
It’s funny: in the moment, the guy’s fairly innocuous comment didn’t make me angry at all, not then. It actually just made me sort of…sad, not really sure how to respond beyond a meager “Um…thank you,” and desperate for my Metro stop to arrive. Sad because smart, ostensibly well-rounded young people of color are judged (seemingly, based on this comment and a lifetime - well, maybe just a decade or so - of similar ones from various races and ages) to be the exception and not the norm. And, at least to me, that’s hurtful. Yes, even coming from a random stranger on the Metro. Now obviously, most of my self-esteem and self-worth come from my own internal reserve and from the love and, to an extent, the approval of the people that care about me. And sure, one isolated comment from a stranger means nothing…even five can be brushed off…but as these comments pile up over the years, it occurs that these are not simply innocent, singular observations, but they represent a mindset, just like Celeste said - one that I’m learning is more prevalent than I had thought and hoped.
Now, I got good grades, read the dictionary like it was a book, and loved museums from early childhood, and nobody ever acted like that was unusual. I always knew my parents and family were proud of me, but Mom and Dad were never profuse or overly gushing in their pride, as if to say, “Look honey, our kid’s black AND smart!” They simply expected and would have accepted nothing less. It wasn’t until I graduated high school and went to a top tier, mostly white university in the South that the whole, “Hey, how’d you get in here!?” phenomenon started. Subtly at times, blatantly at others, but it’s there, it happens (often), and I don’t care who you are or who it’s coming from: that does not ever feel good.
And just to clarify, my classifying this guy as a nerd was not meant derogatorily. Although yes, Bryan, it is a stereotype, and maybe I shouldn’t have made the assumption. But I am a nerd, and would have been no matter where I’d grown up or how much melanin was in my skin, and as such, my use is purely affectionate and geared at imbuing the word with power via insider status, sort of the way women can internally use the word “bitch” or homosexual males can internally use the term “fag.” But that’s a whole ‘nother thread! ;-}
Thanks again for everyone’s comments. This has been enlightening, and the experience has taught me something. The next time I’m on the Metro reading, I dunno, Nietzeche, and someone comes up and goes, “Wow,” I’m going to smile very sweetly and then start barking or meowing until they get up and leave. Then we’ll have a new stereotype: all black existentialists are insane.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 10:08 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
^^^
And that, Spiff, is why I heart you.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 10:11 am ¶
jd wrote:
why are so many people cutting this guy slack? whether she was over-reacting (she wasn’t - she was polite at the time and vented to us later) or not, he is very poorly socialized. it’s OK to be aware of general group trends in preferences (women in general like certain things more or less than men; black Americans like certain things more or less than white Americans, etc), but refusing to let go of your SHOCK that the person before you is an individual and not a collection of the general preferences of their group(s) is just rude.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 11:58 am ¶
MoeHailstone wrote:
The dude on the Metro just expressed himself poorly. I know where he’s comin’ from…so many of my people do reside in the dark ages…and characterize “black” by the wrong definitions. He should have worded things a little different.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 1:24 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
So many of them reside in the “light” ages, too! I find the “dark ages” comment condescending. While many black people don’t partake of certain cultural activities, they’re not squatting in a ditch poking berries up their noses. Just because you’re not hanging in the museum doesan’t mean you’re in the dark ages. There’s no right way to word that “I’m surprised that this young black woman went to a museum.”
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 1:44 pm ¶
Mark wrote:
Being the man’s age on the Metro, and a frequenter of museums, dictionaries, thesauri, books, ipods, and sci-fi books and movies featuring or written by intelligent black people, possessing a cell phone (and the Secret of Joy) but ignant and illiterate when it comes to texting..I relate to both positions, but am not shocked with young black folk in museums, being once one…and a frequenter of libraries to boot.
I teach college, so I am appalled, at the lack of literacy of “kids” (sorry fiddy tree…ageist if you under 30, and my kids age, younger than my guitars). Not just print literacy, cultural literacy, I mean like Black Classics: (Dumas, Dubois, Hurston, Fanon, Diop, Walker, Morrison, Hughes, Baldwin, Sanchez, Van Sertima, Rogers, Butler, Delaney…) Black Classical Music: (Beethoven, The Coltranes, Diz, Bird, Simone…).
I wasn’t raised to depend on the public schools for my education, because it wasn’t the one I was raised on at home, and not the one I raised my kids with either. 3 generations out of sharecropping and 4 out of slavery, we were taken and went to libraries and museums, like it was normal for black folk to be there…so it wasn’t and isn’t worthy of comment. Your beauty isn’t worthy of comment either except to note that it probably makes you a target, so noting your chemistry book, I’d point to my head and say arm yourself well lil sister.
Follow in the footsteps of Hypatia, or Charlotte, or whoever your Classical Ethnic Role model is…
But to get a blank look when I mention DuBois, bell hooks, Angela Davis…to have a number of hip-hop artists be unable to tell me their top ten favorite books….
Have a kid in KRS-ONE’s entourage tell me…
“I’m a rapper, not a reader”…
Lord Lord Lord, this is not what my great-great-grandmother risking her life to teach her self to read and write when that was a death sentence…to start the family tradition of literacy at 4…worked for.
Posted 19 Mar 2008 at 6:08 pm ¶
Spiffany wrote:
Also, having teenaged nieces and nephews and being genuinely concerned about the attitudes they are up against, let me say this, something to keep in mind in light of Obama’s recent speech and his pointing out the ongoing disparity between this county’s educational systems.
Maybe, just maybe if fewer people (blacks in particular) acted like they were in the presence of some kind of genetic mutation when they witness a young person of color achieving something or enjoying a perfectly normal activity, that might offer the youngsters a little encouragement. Dare I say, it might offer a lot of encouragement! It could go a long way toward removing some of the stigma or “shame” sometimes associated with having a hunger for knowledge. I’m just saying, you don’t uplift and support a generation by meeting a kid and immediately pointing out that he or she seems to have risen above some absolutely nonexistent limitation on what they can accomplish, or be interested or involved in.
Because every time someone has “complimented” me in this way in public (and it’s happened again since the original incident), I can’t help thinking about (a) the other young African Americans within earshot, and how such an exclusionary comment might make them feel (I mean, there are plenty of intelligent folks who simply don’t dig museums; it isn’t everybody’s scene); and (b) a white person who might overhear a comment like that, which, unbeknownst to the speaker, tacitly reinforces the notion that, for whatever reason, black people are inherently and fundamentally different. And we just. Aren’t.
Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 9:23 am ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
Spiffany,
You’ve got a point.
The system has done a great job of convincing Black people that we are supposed to be a race of uneducated idiots.
It helps that the schools that the bulk of Black kids go to are designed to fail - and to fail their students - the kind of places that would make a kid hate learning, where a student has to really be unusually well motivated to actually learn.
Beyond those objective factors, it doesn’t help when people have this attitude that it’s unusual or exceptional when a Black person is into culture and art!!!!
Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 10:43 am ¶
Tarah Sweeney wrote:
I honestly don’t see why that poor guy is receiving this much flack. He was just making an observation.
The correct thing to do would’ve been to chat to him about the books, music and movies you enjoy, and then ask him what his favourites are.
Honestly. I understand his thinking - I would’ve probably done the same.
It isn’t very rare to see black people interested in art, but it is rare to see someone “our” age - I’m thinking early to late 20s.
Most black (and white!) youngsters in Cape Town are too interested in attending fancy clubs and bars, not supporting the arts.
Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 3:43 am ¶
Spiffany wrote:
As far as doing the “correct” thing, I’m actually pretty sure I did it. I thanked him, heard him out, and said I hoped he enjoyed the rest of his weekend. But I’m certainly not obligated to make small talk with anyone I don’t want to. I’m not a big chat-on-the-Metro kind of person, anyway. Usually I’d just rather be reading. But mostly I felt uncomfortable carrying on a conversation with the gentleman because I didn’t know what to say; he and I just share very different points of view. To me, a young black person going to a museum is simply that: a young black person going to a museum. It is not an eclipse, the Aurora Borealis, or any other rare occurrence in nature that warrants surprise or amazement.
Btw, ageism isn’t any better than sexism or racism. I say down with ALL -isms!
Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 11:35 am ¶
Gregory A. Butler wrote:
Tarah,
On the whole “correct thing” business - I don’t know about South Africa, but at least where I’m from (New York City) it’s actually considered pretty rude to speak to a stranger on the subway (our city’s equivilant of Washington DC’s Metro).
In particular, many women here do not like having random men hit on them on the train while they’re just trying to go on about their business without being hassled by random lonely males.
Some women even go so far as to always have their iPod earbuds on, even when they aren’t listening to music, just to deter potential R train romeos from bothering them.
By those standards, Spiffany was being pretty damned generous to even speak to this dude.
But, he had to go and make a racist and ageist comment about how he was suprised to see a young Black woman going to a museum - and she was just supposed to casually chat with this guy like he didn’t just insult her (and every other woman of her age and race)!!!
I really don’t see the logic there, Tarah!
The way I see it, he was lucky she even let him strike up a conversation with her - and that she was polite enough not to suddenly end the conversation and/or get in an argument with him and/or give him a harsh glare of contempt, get up and change seats when he made that ignorant stereotypical comment.
Basically, he insulted her - and I simply don’t understand how you can’t see that.
Posted 21 Mar 2008 at 12:02 pm ¶
Krl wrote:
Re: Spiff comments:
I don’t see what it has to do with gender in any way shape or form. He said “I just don’t see a lot of folks - a lot of young folks - hitting the museum.” not any comment about “black women” going to a museum. So you must be mixing examples up or something or hearing what you want to hear.
Regarding the “Oh my, Negroes Speaking French” moments - I’ve had my fair share, but it is usually a black woman making the comment.
“Wow, what book is that? You know alot of brothers dont read you know”.
“Do you have kids? No, wow, that’s good, cause black men got too many damn kids”
At least he acknowledged said person was a human being and doing something out of the ordinary (according to him) for the group (going to the museum- which is not high on the list of black activities in NY). You can contrast this with the “Wait you’re not on parole/you dont have AIDS?/You’re not in a gang/deal drugs? /You can walk and breathe at the same time?” comments that are thrown my way on the regular as a dude.
I can just imagine what would have occurred if I told some sista I just came from a museum: “A museum? Hmm…you’re not gay are you?” LOL…I’m dead ass on that one cause I have been asked that question by black women a couple of times based on my propensity to say Good Afternoon/Evening, Thank you, and the like during conversation. LOL
Posted 24 Mar 2008 at 12:43 pm ¶
Alston wrote:
Actually, I have not encountered this from black people, and very very rarely from anyone else.
Posted 25 Mar 2008 at 3:37 pm ¶