Has Class Trumped Race? Part 2 – Interpreting Privilege

by Racialicious Special Correspondent Latoya Peterson

So, exactly what is privilege? It really depends on your perspective and definition. Let’s revisit my answers to the privilege checklist:

When you were in college:

If your father went to college, take a step forward.
If your father finished college
If your mother went to college
If your mother finished college
If you have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor.
If you were the same or higher class than your high school teachers
If you had a computer at home
If you had your own computer at home
If you had more than 50 books at home
If you had more than 500 books at home
If were read children’s books by a parent
If you ever had lessons of any kind
If you had more than two kinds of lessons
If the people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively
If you had a credit card with your name on it
If you have less than $5000 in student loans

If you have no student loans
If you went to a private high school
If you went to summer camp
If you had a private tutor
If you have been to Europe
If your family vacations involved staying at hotels
If all of your clothing has been new and bought at the mall
If your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them
If there was original art in your house
If you had a phone in your room
If you lived in a single family house
If your parent own their own house or apartment
If you had your own room
If you participated in an SAT/ACT prep course
If you had your own cell phone in High School
If you had your own TV in your room in High School
If you opened a mutual fund or IRA in High School or College
If you have ever flown anywhere on a commercial airline
If you ever went on a cruise with your family
If your parents took you to museums and art galleries
If you were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family.

Many of these items have a class based assumption backing them. However, as other critics of the study have shown, it is fairly easy to have one of these things and not have it be a hallmark of privilege.

If you had your own computer at home.

My mother made sure that we acquired a computer. While we had no software on it (typing papers on Wordpad before there was spell check), my mother had gotten the impression that computers were the future. Also, a computer was a justifiable expense as it could be used for work, school work, and entertainment. We did without other luxuries, like cable TV.

If you had more than fifty books at home.

As others have pointed out, the assumption behind this one is that purchasing books (or having books in the home) is a mark of privilege, presumably because books are expensive items or because people in the lower class have poor reading skills. I am not sure which of those two scenarios the creators of the exercise used. However, books are also a very cheap form of entertainment. My sister and I were avid users of our local library, which also sold used books for a dime a piece when we were growing up. Within a few years, my sister and I had amassed a sizeable collection of children’s books for a very small amount of money – less than the cost of a brand new hardback.

If you were read children’s books by a parent.

Here’s a fun one. As a child, my mother would sit with me for hours and hours, reading my favorite books and taking the time to help me sound out words.

My mother had a lot of free time in those days. As a teen parent, she was still under my grandmother’s roof when I started to read. I would go to daycare, mom would go to high school (and later cosmetology school) and then she stayed with me most evenings and weekends. When my mother got older, we eventually moved to our own place and there was less time to read together. When my younger sister was born, my mom and my dad were both working. No one had the time to teach her to read. The task then fell to me.

If you had a credit card with your name on it.

I did. However, this card did not come from my parents, nor was it one of those cute credit cards my friends got just for attending college. I went straight to work after high school and had no credit, which makes things very difficult. My parents also did not have decent credit (at the time) so I ended up breaking down and going with a scam card company – the one were they charge you a $60 one time set up fee, a $69 annual fee, a $2.00 monthly fee, 30% APR and your credit limit is $150, so you are dangerously close to the limit before you even use the card once. I sucked it up, made regular payments for a year, and was offered a more sane rate by Bank of America. Luckily, I got the notice for the new card with BoA in the same week that the scam card notified me that they were canceling my card for no reason, but I was welcome to reapply – and pay those fees all over again.

If you had less than $5,000 in student loans.

Another large assumption. The reasoning here is that your parents were able to help you out with school costs. However, it does not take into account scholarships. Nor does it take in account the scenario of the thousands of people like me – pay as you go schooling, using a combination of Pell Grants and your wages (less rent and other expenses) to pay your way through college. This is also known as the “as long as I get my degree before I’m 30″ plan for working adults. This is also known as “I can only take two classes a semester and hold down a full time job.” If you can work full time and go to school full time, I applaud you.

If your parents took you to museums and art galleries.

This question is really based on your region. I grew up in the suburbs of Washington, DC. All the public museums are free. Most of the private galleries are free. The Corcoran charges $6-12 for admission. The Millennium Stage at the Kennedy Center hosts free performances. However, if I grew up elsewhere, it would have been more difficult for me to access the kind of culture I was exposed to as a child.

Leaving aside the specific examples for a moment, we get to the next part of the discussion: how do we interpret privilege?

One of the most interesting discussions of privilege came from an unlikely source: Penelope Trunk. The mind behind Brazen Careerist, Trunk pulls no punches about her privileged background. She writes about growing up with “a laundress, a housekeeper, and unlimited cash from a drawer in the dining room.”

And yet, Penelope makes a very astute observation of how privilege works in society:

But before I launch into a celebration of Sofia Coppola, I need to say that the U.S. is not a meritocracy: Rich people are better connected, so they get better jobs. And rich people who are not well connected tend to get better jobs because they have an easier time envisioning themselves in a successful career than poorer people. An example: My younger brother, now 21, did almost no homework in high school, and he recently landed a job most college graduates would covet — investment banking in Europe.

[...]

[B]y the time my brother graduated from college, he had a great experience on his resume that helped him land his new job in Europe. I don’t begrudge him that. And I admit that with a lot of effort and even more luck, a poor kid could land the same positions as my brother. But it’s clear he had a million advantages that poor kids don’t have, so he didn’t need as much luck.

[...]

People like my brother, who have relatively few advantages compared to someone like Sofia, ask for everything — just to see if they’ll get it. He asked my parents to pay for him to attend an expensive college even though he didn’t do a lick of homework in high school. Even though he knew he wasn’t qualified, he asked my cousin for an internship. He could do this because he could envision himself getting it. Poor kids have to stretch to imagine having food on the table every night.

As Trunk states above, a large part of privilege is access. (We will cover entitlement in part 3.)

So we currently have two main components to economic privilege. The material aspect of privilege – which includes always having enough money for the utilities or having extra money for things like field trips, new clothes and AP classes – and the access aspect of privilege, which allows you to gain valuable life experiences.

Do you think that the material aspect of privilege is more important or the access aspect of privilege?

Which one has had a greater impact on your life?

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Rickshaw Diaries on 08 Feb 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Has class trumped race?…

    Whether measured by Pakistani or American terms, I grew up in a privileged family, but also one that was only a few generations away from being village farmers on either side.
    I try to be conscious of how that shapes my actions, words, and world view. …

  2. A Battle of Faith and Love » Thoughts on Privilege… on 10 Feb 2008 at 1:49 am

    [...] State University, and it has gotten a great deal of comments and has started a some interesting debate. The items in bold are things that apply to me, and my views follow afterwards. When you were in [...]

  3. Life Links 11 « My Sky ~ Multiracial Family Life on 20 Feb 2008 at 3:08 pm

    [...] Privilege Meme, currently at Racialicious (part 1, part 2, & part 3) I might have to do a whole post on this one . . [...]

  4. privilege and me « Kisses, Bitch. on 29 Feb 2008 at 3:04 pm

    [...] place i read about this, they have some mega interesting, worth reading analyzation of this in Has Class Trumped Race part 2? it’s been going around the internet and people have been applying it to themselves (mostly, [...]

  5. Two great series on Racialicious. « Irreverently on 07 Mar 2008 at 7:38 pm

    [...] One/Part Two/Part [...]

  6. Food for thought: Issues of privilege » The-F-Word.org on 02 Nov 2008 at 6:00 pm

    [...] 1: Understanding Privilege Part 2: Interpreting Privilege Part 3: Acknowledging Privilege Part 3.5: An Aside Part 4: The Question Part 5: Discussion [...]

Comments

  1. Jess wrote:

    Hiya,

    I’ve been really interested in your posts on this subject. Of course, the list was constructed in the US, to reflect reality in the US, but I can’t help but bring my English, class-based culture perspective to the issue!

    For example, on the books issue, you say:

    “As others have pointed out, the assumption behind this one is that purchasing books (or having books in the home) is a mark of privilege, presumably because books are expensive items or because people in the lower class have poor reading skills. I am not sure which of those two scenarios the creators of the exercise used. However, books are also a very cheap form of entertainment. My sister and I were avid users of our local library, which also sold used books for a dime a piece when we were growing up. Within a few years, my sister and I had amassed a sizeable collection of children’s books for a very small amount of money – less than the cost of a brand new hardback.”

    But what I feel this ignores is that class (which of course is intimately interlinked with priviledge) is based on more than just money, or even just access to life experiences.

    Class also involves set cultural expectations and ways of being, which I think is what this question is about. I.E. – the cultural expectation that books are for the middle classes.

    It also influences how we see ourselves, expectations for our own futures, what we feel entitled to claim as our own, etc. Applying this to reading, for example, we can see that reading is seen as something “not for” working class kids and adults, and this is a mindset which will continue to operate even if a family becomes wealthy enough to afford a whole library of books.

    Because of the educational, personal and career advantages you get from being a habitual reader, it really is a privilige to gr0w up in a family that may be poor, but where books are available and read by all.

  2. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Jess -

    “Class also involves set cultural expectations and ways of being, which I think is what this question is about. I.E. – the cultural expectation that books are for the middle classes. ”

    Good points. I am discussing some of that under the idea of “entitlement” but the cultural expectation part is important as well.

  3. atlasien wrote:

    The worst situation is if you’re from any kind of cultural/economic background that happens to have a strong streak of anti-intellectualism, where liking to read books means you’re “lazy” or “gay” or “you think you’re better than everyone else”.

    In terms of the question, I think that access is much more important than the material side. In my family, our level of material possessions changed from “whatever fits in a suitcase” to “middle-class house in the suburbs with a computer and much more than 500 books”. But no matter how much money we had in the bank account, I had a lot of access to privileges through family friends and extended relatives. I grew up feeling like I wasn’t confined to living in any one place, or living just one role. I was also able to navigate a lot of different environments and situations. I wouldn’t say I was comfortable in all situations, but at least I could cope.

    I think that’s important because I’ve seen people go through “class panic”. I only experienced it myself once — visiting a distant family friend at a prep school party on the Upper East Side of NYC– but it was a really horrible, embarrassing, ego-destroying kind of experience. My friend and I left after about ten minutes. It probably didn’t help that everyone else was white, but the vast majority of the almost-physical discomfort seemed to be caused by class panic.

  4. Persia wrote:

    There’s almost two kinds of privilege going on in this questionnaire. One is economic privilege, which is where the tv in the room and parents buying you a new car questions come from. The other is the privilege of having the right kind of parents, who will make sure you have access to books and will try to get you a scholarship for piano lessons or scrimp and save to get you a computer. My parents went up and down from low to comfortably middle class during my childhood, but books, piano lessons, and other aspects of my education always came first to them, and I think that gave me more ‘privilege’ than our economic privileges.

  5. Cynthia wrote:

    atlasien,

    Sometimes, class panic is something you eventually “grow out of.” It often only happens if you let it happen. In any case, there are plenty of people who came from very disadvantaged backgrounds only to see success later in life. My dad and the 30 or so high school and university classmates he still keeps in touch with grew up in underprivileged post-WWII projects of Hong Kong. Many of these guys grew up in a 500 or 600 sq ft unit with a family of four or more, and sometimes even shared that one unit with two other families! However, every single one of these men finished high school, went to university and are now about to retire from jobs as doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. These are men who hold memberships in exclusive country clubs, yacht clubs, boards, etc…something that they would never imagine could happen when they were in high school in the 60s. I’m sure these men were uncomfortable at first, but hey, they got used to it.

    I also don’t understand why it makes you uncomfortable if you (or anyone else) are the token non-white person? I was a drama major at a school that many Torontonians see as a “very white” school (though in reality, it’s probably 25%+ non-white…though many non-white students at this university (generally Asian) are in some form of science). I was probably one of four Asian students (basically one Asian student per year) and maybe one of seven or so non-whites in the entire department. This meant that I was often the only non-white student in a class.

  6. atlasien wrote:

    Cynthia, I really don’t need any advice on how to manage my life, I am quite happy with the life I have chosen, a life which involves extensive and quite normal contact with white people. I am recounting my one serious incident of class panic simply to serve as an illustrating anecdote for a sociological point. If I want therapy, I’ll pay a professional for it. I’m also quite aware that social mobility exists, my father grew up in a mountain village, suffered malnutrition as a child and eventually became a college professor. Please stop trying to “fix” myself or any other commenter on the site. You may mean well, but it’s nonproductive and extraordinarily irritating.

  7. Tim wrote:

    Just to echo what’s already been said, in addition to economic position, class is about culture and values. This is how class reproduces itself, especially through education. Your parents (like mine) may have been working-class according to their economic position, but it sounds like their values were firmly middle-class. If they didn’t, then the computer may have taken a back seat to cable, and you would have a very different kind of cultural literacy.

    What I take to be the lesson of these elements is that if you were fortunate enough to get access to these things — exposure to books and technologies, scholarships, cultural experiences, good credit and low debt — you’re much less likely to remain in the same economic and cultural position as your parents and grandparents, or your childhood friends and neighbors. And if it’s the reproduction of class that is really important — how the children of the wealthy stay wealthy, and how the children of the poor stay poor, then that’s not irrelevant at all.

  8. jd wrote:

    huh, over the course of two posts, I went from feeling extremely privileged (economics) to not (access). My parents were both upwardly mobile (dad middle-class army brat; mom working poor who married up), but I definitely still have expectations that grow out of their childhoods. College, certainly, but no idea how to network like the rich folk do.

  9. Aaminah wrote:

    “I also don’t understand why it makes you uncomfortable if you (or anyone else) are the token non-white person?”

    Cynthia, if you really don’t understand why that makes us uncomfortable, maybe you should spend more time reading this site and less time trying to give advice. :)

  10. Faith wrote:

    Having a computer does not make you privileged, but it is a privilege, and I wish the poster would acknowledge that. I didn’t have one growing up, so I turned in a lot of things handwritten, and those assignments never got good grades, no matter how much work I put into them. Sometimes teachers would require things be typed (I went to an affluent public school) and it was really hard to figure out a way to accomplish that and so sometimes I wouldn’t hand anything in. The attitude of my teachers echoes the attitude of a lot of people in the comments. Computers aren’t expensive, if you parents cared about you, they’d figure out a way to get you one. But it ignores the class/racial/educational barriers that keep various marginalized groups from obtaining the technologies necessary for economic success. I would have given anything for a computer growing up, even one that didn’t have spellcheck.
    I know the poster does not consider herself privileged, but I’m getting kind of tired of the rampant privilege denial.
    I grew up with more than 50 books in my house and that was huge advantage. I owe my success to the books in my house and the people who took the time to read to me. It made all the difference. While I grew up disadvantaged, I see no value in denying the importance of the advantages I did have. This test is not designed to measure if you are privileged or not, but asks you to examine what kind of privileges you did or didn’t have and what kind of impact they had on your development.

  11. gatamala wrote:

    I’ll go w/ the access. I also see access as “knowledge” of how to maneuver yourself into positions where there are more opportunities. When your folks’ friends/acquaintances do X,Y, Z you know who to go to and of course you actually have someone to turn to.

    My father went from a comfortable childhood, to one of great hardship upon his father’s death. He was able to succeed, in part, because of the family connections (the old AfAm social network of yore). The dr. who gave him his ‘Nam physical was a family friend. He ended up not going. No, my father didn’t have Bush material comforts, but he had enough access to possibly (I think probably) avoid going to war.

    I think the access portion of privilege makes folks more uncomfortable than the material aspect of privilege b/c it blows the meritocracy myth out of the water.

    I also don’t understand why it makes you uncomfortable if you (or anyone else) are the token non-white person?

    I don’t mean to pile on, but clearly in the post on luxury goods you seemed uncomfortable w/ the wealth of certain folks.

  12. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Faith –

    Where did I say I wasn’t privileged? I think the closest thing I have said is that I agreed with Atlasien’s comments in the first post.

  13. marge twain wrote:

    “I see no value in denying the importance of the advantages I did have. This test is not designed to measure if you are privileged or not, but asks you to examine what kind of privileges you did or didn’t have and what kind of impact they had on your development.”

    Faith, you hit the nail on the head.
    Regardless of income, cultural and literary access are privileges. Having parents who took an interest in one’s schoolwork, getting scholarships to college, being able to turn in typed papers, living in a cultural capital like D.C., these all confer advantages in our adult lives.
    Taking this test made me realize that while I grew up poor and brown, and never identified as high class, my educated parents were upwardly mobile. That they encouraged reading and insisted on The Queen’s English at home allowed me often to transcend my thrift-store upbringing. I often pass for a college educated person, which I couldn’t without those 500+ books.

  14. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Actually, Faith and Marge, disregard my last comment.

    Here’s what I probably should say:

    Please, please don’t bring that up yet or we will rob part of the conversation covered in part three.

    Topics like Race and Class are huge, so I want to divide them into smaller discussions so people feel comfortable participating in different veins. So in parts one and two, we started playing around with the definition of privilege. I am proposing different scenarios, but I have not yet claimed or denied my privilege – people can make their own assumptions as to what I have provided them with.

    Next post deals with entitlement; other types of privilege; understanding how privilege plays out in our day to day lives; and finally reintroduces race back into the equation.

    Part 4 talks about the issues involved when trying to swap race for class in public discussions.

    There may or may not be a part five – it depends on what is being brought up in the discussions.

    So, can we press pause on this line of argument until Monday or Tuesday?

  15. Michelle wrote:

    I am a little confused as to what we are supposed to talk about but LaToya, will you allow me to take a stab?

    It seems like people have been saying one thing over and over again…”Where can you imagine yourself to be in 5 years, in ten years?” Maybe the first step, or building block of priviledge is your imagination….where can you imagine life taking you? Can you imagine college, can you imagine having a job you love, can you imagine getting good grades. Regardless of anything else, perhaps the common thread of priviledge is being given the permission to dream bigger than your current circumstances, or see yourself where you want to be in the future.

  16. JYM wrote:

    I definitely agree that this list doesn’t take scholarships into account. The reason I can say yes to a lot of this list is because I was fortunate enough to recieve a large scholarship that paid for summer programs and private school.

  17. Elton wrote:

    I was raised by Chinese immigrant parents to be the first member of my family to attend college. Above all, I have symbolized one thing for my family: hope.

    A quintessential part of my Asian-American experience has been that what you call “access” always trumps the “material.” My childhood was not about “having fun” or whatever the American ideal is supposed to be. It was about education, and training to create better opportunities for myself. Not that it wasn’t a fun and enriching childhood, I just had a different focus and a different definition of what the purpose of my life was supposed to be, and it didn’t revolve around having the most fun and enjoyment in material terms.

    If you want to call the sort of knowledge, education, and skills that I’ve earned “privilege” because they allow me access to opportunities my parents never dreamed of, then go right ahead.

    Now, about that list…
    I got my own computer (hand-me-down) and my own cell phone because I had earned a spot at the state-funded residential high school for math and science. Is that privilege? Considering that for the first year I used a calling card to call home, and that computer was a piece of junk… maybe.

    I attended state-funded educational summer camps for gifted children (before they were cut by Gov. Huckabee), and I had to apply for a very limited number of spots. Is that privilege? Yes, but it can easily be taken away.

    I’ve been on commercial airlines many many times in order to travel to the educational opportunities I’ve EARNED throughout the country. Is the American airline industry a “privilege”? At these prices, I hesitate to say yes… (Oh, and one of those educational opportunities was in Spain, so, yes, I’ve been to Europe, but no, it’s not what would amount to a rich guy vacation.)

    What else… I took piano lessons, which my parents had to work very hard to pay for… and I did have original art in my house, which I made in junior high art class. Yes, I live in a single family house, which truly is a privilege compared to where my mom grew up in China. But my parents worked very hard to earn the relatively comfortable living situation I enjoy. And I worked very hard to ear the educational opportunities and increased access that I enjoy. And I still have a long way to go.

  18. Blanky wrote:

    Jesus, all these folks denying their privilege. What is the deal with privilege? Why do people, when accused of privilege, work so very hard to make excuses/deny it, and then accuse others of being privileged?

  19. Rachel S. wrote:

    Elton,
    Because your examples are very similar to my own, I wanted to respond to a few of your comments.

    You said, “I got my own computer (hand-me-down) and my own cell phone because I had earned a spot at the state-funded residential high school for math and science. Is that privilege?”

    The point is that the experience expanded the opportunities you had, which in turn gave your privileges. No one is making any argument about how hard you worked to get there; in fact, if your parents weren’t well off you may have worked quite a bit harder than the other folks to get there.

    You said, “I attended state-funded educational summer camps for gifted children (before they were cut by Gov. Huckabee), and I had to apply for a very limited number of spots. Is that privilege? Yes, but it can easily be taken away.”

    I went to these kinds of programs too–some state funded and one was at a private University in Chicago. I got a scholarship for the private school program, and the “enrichment” programs were like $60 dollars because they were subsidized. The fact that I attended those programs gave me advantages over other kids in my neighborhood. Sure the funding could have been cut, but you and I were both able to avail ourselves of these opportunities. Rather than looking at the what if; we should look at the what was. And what was is that we got these chances.

    You said, “I’ve been on commercial airlines many many times in order to travel to the educational opportunities I’ve EARNED throughout the country.”

    Nobody said that you didn’t earn these opportunities, but the fact of the matter is not every single person is going to get these opportunities. And it is not just about “hard work.” You can work hard as hell, but money can still be a barrier.

    Furthermore, it’s incredibly self-centered and narcissitic for you or I to act like these educational opportunities that we have had are only because of our personal hard work. We were fortunate to have others invest in us–our parents, our teachers, the people who donated money to University endowments so that we could have scholarships, the taxpayers who provided the money so people like you and I could get SEOG grants or Pell Grants.

    This whole I EARNED IT mentality is hogwash.

    You said, “And I worked very hard to ear the educational opportunities and increased access that I enjoy. And I still have a long way to go.”

    The access you enjoy today is called privilege, and when/if you have children they will benefit tremendously from the privileges that your current economic and educational status bestows on them, and they probably won’t have to work as hard as you, and you probably won’t have to make near as many sacrifices as your parents did to help you kids avail themselves of those privileges.

    And guess what my little spoiled bratty kids LOL! will be in the same position.

  20. Michelle wrote:

    Rachel….

    I really enjoyed your response to Elton. It was thoughtful, respectful and full of really good points about what constitutes priviledge.

  21. Torontonian wrote:

    @Cynthia

    What high school and university did your dad attend, where all 30 of his classmates became professionals?

    Which school did you attend that Torontonians consider “very white”? Anyway, your very white drama department is not the same thing, as it’s still in Toronto (?). Did you ever try visiting a small town? If you did, you didn’t feel uncomfortable?

    @Elton

    If you want to call the sort of knowledge, education, and skills that I’ve earned “privilege” because they allow me access to opportunities my parents never dreamed of, then go right ahead.

    Yes, that’s definitely privilege.

    Maybe people are denying privilege because we don’t all have the same understanding of what “privilege” means. When I say that you are privileged or that I am privileged, I don’t mean that we don’t work hard. I don’t mean that knowledge, education, and skills are unnecessary luxuries. I am not using the term “privilege” in the “privilege not a right” sense, since I believe education is a right. I am merely saying that you have advantages that other people don’t have.

    You are privileged compared to your parents. To quote Tim Wise, you were born into the right family, and “the minute you begin to benefit from the ‘hard work’ of someone else, all notions of that being ‘earned’ fly out the window.”

  22. Lauren O wrote:

    I think the reason people deny their privilege is that they want to believe they earned everything they have.

    I could bold almost all of the items on that list, and the ones I can’t are often a matter of choice; I didn’t go to summer camp because I didn’t want to, but my parents could certainly have afforded to send me. I have a huge amount of privilege. Huge! And I recognize how far that’s taken me in life. But I’d still like to think I’ve earned some things for myself.

    The fact that I got into Stanford, and that my parents could afford to pay for it? Probably based almost entirely on privilege. The fact that I graduated valedictorian from my high school and am getting a 4.0 GPA at Stanford? I understand it was aided by privilege, but I’d also like to think it’s largely because I’m intelligent and hard-working.

    It might be true that I haven’t earned anything for myself at all, but I’d probably get defensive if you told me that. Anyone would, because it means a pretty big blow to your ego. And people who are less cognizant of their level of privilege, who think they’ve earned EVERYTHING they’ve gotten instead of just SOME of it, are bound to get even more defensive about it.

  23. rhian wrote:

    maybe i’m missing the point of this checklist, but my impression is that it’s a checklist of ways in which you have or have not been privileged — not a way of scoring whether or not you were “privileged”.

    no matter where you got books from, having books puts you at an advantage. having a computer puts you at an advantage. being read to as a kid puts you at an advantage. those things are not necessarily markers are privilege, but they are privileges themselves.

    honestly this really drives me nuts, all of this battling over who’s more privileged. we’re all privileged in some ways. some are privileged in a lot of ways, and others in not so many. but we have to own what privilege we do have, or we’ll never get anywhere.

  24. Cynthia C wrote:

    Torontonian,

    Let’s just say that my dad went to a very academic public high school (probably something like Jarvis Collegiate in Toronto) and then attended the University of Hong Kong. I did not go to university in Toronto. I went to Queen’s and trust me, I did NOT feel out of place. What made you think I went to school in town?

  25. marjorie wrote:

    I think privilege is often hard for people to acknowledge because they feel it invalidates their life struggles. Regardless of how much privilege you’ve had, life can be hard and not everyone is able to exploit the privileges they’ve had. To think that everyone is similarly suited to exploit privileges is akin to thinking everyone should be able to equally exploit a capitalist system to get rich (i hope that makes sense). Not everyone has the psychology for it.

    In the trade off between material privilege and access, I’d say that access is the defining factor in terms of class. And access often naturally correlates with a high level of material privilege. Much of the ability to maintain a higher-class economic position stems from an internal belief that that is where one belongs.

    As to being able to recognize privilege, there’s a difference between intellectually understanding the things that make one privileged, and really getting it. It can be a conundrum, because often the very thing that makes us privileged also is the thing that blinds us to the fact that we are privileged. If one is white, how can one really ever know the many ways one does not have to deal with racism? If one is a man, how can he ever really know the reality of a woman in a sexist world? Similar for class I think. If you have always been used to a middle class-upward existence, how can you ever really know reality of back-breaking 18 hour days just to be able to make it to the next paycheck…along with the knowledge that life is always going to be like that? Many people do the work they need to do to understand their own privilege. But I think it requires ongoing work, and its easy to go through life without ever realizing that what one takes for granted is actually a big ‘ole piece of privilege.

  26. esperanza13 wrote:

    I have to admit, I haven’t read all of the above posts, so I hope that I am not being redundant.

    I’m a teacher (also married to a teacher, with a mother, siblings and cousins who are all teachers) and at our schools, they persist in making it a goal to “narrow the black-white achievement gap.”

    While myself, and other more experienced teachers at our school keep pointint out that the divide isn’t simply racial – it’s socio-economic. Students of color from wealthy backgrounds tend to perform just as well as their white peers. Whereas white students from poor backgrounds tend to not perform as well – just like students of color from low-income backgrounds.

    Of course, I don’t mean to imply that the “achievement gap” comes down to just a socio-economic divide. Much depends on the parents – no matter what income level, if parents are invested in their childrens’ education, their children tend to far out-perfomr their peers whose parents don’t take an active interest in their academic performance.

    Be that as it may, if you have to work 2-3 jobs to put food on the table and pay the rent, if you have to clean your own house, etc… you simply don’t have as much time to read to your child, help them with their homework, pay for or take them to lessons, etc… as a parent with a comfortable income.

    So I suppose that in my experience, the material aspect of privilege, and the access aspect, tend to be linked. Because students with more material wealth tend to have parents who can afford to take them to lessons (or hire a nanny to do so), afford to take time to take them to museums, afford to hire tutors, etc… And so, the material aspect facilitates access.

    Of course, as you point out, access doesn’t necessarily depend upon material wealth. It’s just far harder to get access if you don’t have welath – the playing field isn’t level.

  27. Bianca wrote:

    A loaded subject, one that I’ve always had a hard time wrapping my head around.

    Persia’s comment about having “the right kind” of parents really bothered me. How we raise our children is culture-specific (I know, I’m stating the obvious) and the reasons behind doing or not doing something are too complicated to but into “wrong” & “right” categories. That’s not to say that there aren’t pay-offs for doing or not doing certain things for/with your children.
    I’m reading a book that studies this: “Unequal Childhoods” by Annette Lareau. Her study (though flawed in some way I probably can’t see) definitely helped me understand parents’ reasoning, and link obvious and not-so-obvious child-rearing beliefs to various forms of privilege.

  28. queerhapa wrote:

    Bianca, you totally just beat me to recommending Annette Lareau’s book for an understanding of how class is a mindset in addition to material resources and access, and how privilege gets reproduced from generation to generation. But I think this is moving towards Latoya’s next part on entitlement? (BTW, the flaw of the book, as I see it, is that she only studies Black and White families, and I wonder what she is missing by neglecting Asian American and Latino families).

  29. Torontonian wrote:

    @Cynthia,

    Sorry, I was jumping to conclusions. I thought you went to U of T from something that you mentioned before, but I was quite wrong. Yes, Queen’s is pretty white, and I’m not sure why you didn’t feel out of place, because I’ve heard other people who went to Queen’s complain about being one of the few people of colour there. (Of course, your experience is just as valid. I’m just confused because I had thought that the feeling of being out of place as a racial minority was universal, but apparently not.)

    Was your father’s high school a private school?

  30. Cynthia C wrote:

    No worries about jumping to conclusions. You might have read somewhere that I went to grad school at U of T (didn’t really feel part of it, since most of my classmates were people old enough to be my mom or dad)

    My dad’s high school was not private by 1960s Hong Kong standards and I’d say that most of the students there were lower income to barely middle class (I’m not even sure if my dad and his siblings had many books before he started school…my grandmother reads at a Grade 2 or 3 level) However, if you met my dad or any of his classmates, you would have thought that they grew up in solidly middle to upper middle class families based on behaviour.

    As for Queen’s being really white, I really don’t think it’s as white as some of the smaller universities in the east coast. The percentage of non-white students at the school are higher than the percentage of non-white people in all of Canada. It’s just people from Toronto and Vancouver who complain about it. In any case, half the family members of my generation are either Queen’s alumni or current Queen’s students. There are lots of students there of Chinese descent, at least, enough to have like 5 or 6 organizations (including a debate team) for people who speak Cantonese and perhaps 3 for those who speak Mandarin. Most other cultures only have one association or club.

  31. Torontonian wrote:

    My dad went to some prestigious high school in Hong Kong run by Christian missionaries, but I don’t know whether or not it was private. Similarly, it seems like most of his classmates are doing quite well as professionals. He also grew up quite poor, couldn’t afford to buy textbooks or uniforms, was part of a huge family squished into a small living space. Poverty definitely had a negative effect on his grades.

    He couldn’t get into the University of Hong Kong, so we went to university abroad.

    I don’t know, it seems like the people who make it out of poverty are a very tiny percentage of the population. It’s a bit odd that all the people who went to these high schools ended up doing well. I think it’s more reasonable to conclude that these schools offered exceptional privilege, rather than think that all the people who went to these schools just happened to have exceptional personalities over other poor kids that didn’t attend those schools. Chinese immigrants in Canada and the U.S. may be mostly professionals, but actual people in Hong Kong and mainland China are not.

  32. lunanoire wrote:

    Torontonian,

    do you think that is a factor for Clinton’s support in CA? Professionals, especially those who are succceeding financially, are less likely to want to rock the boat to vote for change, so they are more likely to vote for a more well-known, politically established candidate.

  33. donna darko wrote:

    I don’t know much about Hong Kong high schools except my mom went to Maryknoll Convent School which supposedly provided great access. Most of those girls married tycoons and politicians. My mom married nice, dear old dad. Her bros went to St Stephens which is supposedly for intellectual boys.

    Material goods or access/entitlement? Pierre Bourdieu wrote about cultural capital which is expectations and viewpoints based on SES (socio-economic status), a combination of material goods and access/entitlement.

  34. donna darko wrote:

    SES is based on assets/wealth, parents’ education and parents’ occupation.

  35. Alston wrote:

    Many people here are saying that the access version of privilege is more important, and I believe this to be true. It could explain the whole difference between old money and new money, and why people who don’t think about and don’t cultivate the access part of privilege don’t do as much with their money as those with that mindset.

    The thing that I have learned is that while I don’t have much in material possessions, I seem to have the “access” mindset that the privileged have. I associate this with networking, gaining access to things that you could not have done alone. That’s what the rich do. I suppose the poor are too busy trying to survive to network and create their own avenues to privilege. I admit, I don’t know much about the poor.

    The mindset of those that seek and get access is key, and should not be understated.

  36. ABCJoe wrote:

    There’s a lot of “culture” and “having strong parents” being thrown around right now, which I find to be surprising on an presumingly “progressive” forum. What are we suggesting?

    I often ponder about first and second generation Haitian Americans (who are from predominately Af-Am neighborhoods) who I find more likely than African Americans to attend local private, elite universities in Boston.

    I’ve also found that, through my work with educational prep programs for low-income urban students, students of African descent from outside the U.S. are more likely to be driven and focused on education than their African American counterparts. And to be more specific, I am referring to students of African descent whose parents (and grandparents) were extremely poor and uneducated.

    Not based on hard research, just day-to-day observation.

  37. Ange wrote:

    @ABCjoe

    Let me answer that one for you, as I am a Jamaican immigrant. Blacks in the Caribbean did not live under oppression for as long as Blacks in the US. We did not go to school under armed guards, told your place was at the back of the bus.

    Racism did not last as long in the Caribbean as it did in the US. After living in the US while Black for awhile now, I can tell you, that racism is depressing and draining. I admire American born Blacks, I don’t know how they have done it for this long without completely falling apart.

    Caribbean Blacks don’t have some of the “hang ups” that Blacks in the US have as it relates to White people. Personally I was raised by Educated Rastafarian parents who led me to believe that Whites are inferior. Something I struggle with.

    So in you (I am assuming White) choosing to point that out, all you are doing is the same ole “see you are better than THEY are” That will probably work with Hatians, but not with Jamaicans as a group we are the most hostile towards Whites.

    Little History lesson. Without Bookman Dutty a Jamaican there would have been no Toussaint, Before Malcolm and Martin there was Garvey. If you are indeed White. It’s people like you who stand in the way of real progress. Also give me some statistics on third and fourth generation Black immigrants, how well are THEY doing in comparison to their Black American counterparts. Racism is draining and depressing, White people could not have survived what they have put others through. For those who constantly put Black people down, My mother always said we are, based on THEIR standards of ” anything” 200 years behind them and still managed to catch up. The reason I still live here?! Autism has me by the wrists and the ankles, or I would have been gone a long time ago.

    I read this post about privilege and didn’t know if I should laugh or cry. It seems to me it was a chance for some of you to brag about your upbringing under the pretense that you were somehow uncomfortable with your so called privilege.

    I just have few questions. Has your top tier education, home in the right neighborhood, chasing the American dream….has it made you happier? do you like, truly like the person in the mirror? Do you have Peace of Mind. What have you really accomplished? Who exactly are YOU?

  38. ABCJoe wrote:

    Ange-

    I am a person of color (as in one or more of the following: Af-Am, As-Am, Latino/a, Native/Indigenous) with no European heritage that I know of. The post expressed an honest feeling and observation I had. No ill intent. At any rate…

    In your first paragraph, I think you’ve suggested the same thing I observed – that different histories of oppression between two groups of African descent developed different values and abilities. That is, Jamaicans are doing better because of different experiences, heritage, and upbringing.

    But I think we differ, as expressed in your second paragraph, with the notion that contemporary racism affects both groups equally in the U.S. Is it correct to say that you believe that African immigrants are treated as unjustly as African Americans who’ve been here for more than three generations?

    I’m sure anti-black discrimination affects both groups and I’ve seen it happen. But do I feel that there is an equal approach or sensitivity between African Americans and immigrants of African descent? No, I do not. And I think this is significant in understanding why immigrants of African descent seem to do better despite facing anti-black discrimination AND the barriers of being an immigrant.

    You can mention Garvey, Nkrumah, and the global figures of Africana history. But that was a different time and place. I also want to note that this is not meant specifically judge the African American community, only to use it as example. I apologize if it seemed like it. I’m just wondering whether its time for African Americans and other historically oppressed communities in the U.S. to reevaluate their strategies for liberation.

    Basically, I’m wondering about Dyson’s question, “Is Bill Cosby right?”

  39. donna darko wrote:

    SES and cultural capital and sociological terms.

  40. donna darko wrote:

    *are*

  41. NancyP wrote:

    I think that hearing a “foriegn” accent (West Indian, Nigerian, S. African, etc English) does influence the average North American white person’s immediate reaction to a black person. (exception may be NYC, or any other city with a high population of W. Indians, etc). There may be a category confusion – the expectations pertaining to “black” vs. those pertaining to “foriegner”. I think it slows down the stereotyping a bit.

  42. mylie wrote:

    I definitely agree with you about museums. My brother, who attended (and still attends, but now as a grad student) Howard in DC would take my sister and me on near endless trips to museums, since he was a poor college student and they were free. And he grew up, for the most part, in a different class than my sister and I (we have a different mother than him). Though he would go on long trips to Europe with my father, at home, with his mother, he had to live with his grandparents because his mother couldn’t afford a house of her own. And by the way, he grew up in Alabama, not DC, and though I’m not sure, I don’t think the museums there are free. So it can go outside of class.
    I think the access aspect of privilege has more effect for me. Though I do own a lot of material things that I probably should never have gotten, I didn’t think that much of it. But as far as access, I’ve never imagined myself not being able to go somewhere. It even affects my relationship with my parents. My father grew up rather poor, and my mother, though middle class, grew up with parents who had grown up poor. And they were black and living in the 50s and 60s. So while they have an idea of prejudice being everywhere to some extent, I, (and my sister) their privileged child, don’t really feel racism/prejudice in the least. I don’t see the problem with me having friends who are mostly of a race other than mine. This isn’t “access” to me, but my parents say it is. I don’t have a hard time imagining myself in a good college or in honors classes, I’ve always been in them. My mother attended Cornell and GW, so I think, why can’t I? I don’t think it’s that anyone told underprivileged kids that they couldn’t have access to this or that, it’s that those kids never saw anyone they knew (or only very few people) reaching these things. So they just came to the assumption that those things don’t happen.