links for 2008-01-31

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Comments

  1. Jeremy Pierce wrote:

    How is it a sign of anti-secularism that they’re allowing head scarves? A secular government can allow free practice of religion without itself endorsing that religion. This is in fact what the First Amendment in the U.S. Constitution guarantees. I would see a ban on head scarves as not religiously neutral.

    It’s nice that the article goes on to explain this, but by starting off the way they do it makes it sound as if this is a completely counter-intuitive result rather than what you’d expect from a more permissive government.

  2. BreakMeAGimmee wrote:

    Re Ataturk: Yeah, some progress. Is there as much concern for Atilla Yayla’s “freedom of expression” in the “new” Turkey?
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jan2008/turk-j31.shtml

    Re Grist: The Oregonian article
    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1201325108143650.xml&coll=7
    and University of MI survey were much more balanced than the hysterical summary presented. Not that I want to feel better about these issues, but Grist didn’t cite who did the survey or the possible reasons why it’s difficult to attract/retain people of color to green orgs (which are way different than govt. agencies) and adopting green lifestyles. It’s a complex mix of personal choice, economics, messenger, and workplace environment and sustaining culture of diversity (backgrounds and geography included).

  3. Wendi Muse wrote:

    re: aborigines, it’s about freakin’ time. australian govt did some verrrrry dirty things to the aboriginal population and continues to abuse them. i hope they do more than just talk and put their words into action.

  4. Mira wrote:

    BreakMeAGimme, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with Atilla Yayla. I’m not an expert in this area at all, but I know that for Turkey secularism and democracy don’t necessarily go hand in hand. Ataturk was a staunch secularist, but much of a democrat at all, and one of the things he did was ban headscarves (and fezzes, etc). Yayla was prosecuted for criticizing his quasi-dictatorship and the sort of cult of personality that he encouraged. I don’t think Yayla would agree with the folks who are saying that wearing a headscarf is anti-modern and against the secular state.

    The Australian apology is veeery interesting. I met a thirty-ish Australian guy while I was in a hostel last summer, and he made some comments about Aboriginal people not wanting to work and sponging off the government and I said this reminded me of the same racist remarks people in the US made about African Americans, and was probably about as true. He seemed really surprised that I said that, and replied “But they’re a part of American culture!” I was really surprised by that. Did that mean he thought Aborigines weren’t part of Australian culture? That racism isn’t an integral part of cultural interaction? He also said that Aborigines were a “dying race” with a failed culture, so he certainly wasn’t the most enlightened Australian ever. I’ve only had a few conversations with Australians about racism, and I was really shocked about his blatant disrespect of their culture.

  5. BreakMeAGimmee wrote:

    No Mira,

    Yayla wasn’t prosecuted for criticizing Ataturk– he was prosecuted for being a liberal, and an active unapologetic contributor to the very Islamic academic circles the military and judiciary finds so dangerous as Turkey lurches forward in its government and rewriting its constitution to remove the ban on headscarves.,

  6. Angel H. wrote:

    Re: Australia apologizes..

    Good for them, but does that mean the government will stop doing shit they’ll need to apologize for?

    BreakMeAGimmee: Love the handle! :D

  7. Mira wrote:

    Well, yeah, he was prosecuted for being a liberal and defending Kurds and religious conservatives against secularist attacks. But he was sentenced for criticizing Ataturk, as it said in the headline of the article you linked and as he said in an article in the International Herald Tribune. Yayla said he wasn’t criticizing Ataturk himself, but Kemalism and the idea that Ataturk ’saved the Turks from the middle ages’, which seems fair to me. What I meant was that you can’t suggest that religious conservatism was behind his prosecution. Of course, it’s unlikely the religious folks will be as interested in preserving Yayla’s freedoms as he is in preserving theirs, but that’s a different story. I’m just saying it isn’t simply secular democrats vs. conservative Islamists; in his case it seems to be more that of a liberal democrat aligning with religious conservatives against Kemalists.

  8. Desipis wrote:

    Mira:

    “Aboriginal people not wanting to work and sponging off the government”

    Unfortunately, they are the only race of people who literally have whole communities that have no productive capabilities and are totally reliant on government funding to survive. This creates resentment in people who don’t understand that this was the inevitable result of the ’solutions’ implemented by the unsophisticated early 20th century governments. Although, I’m yet to see anyone propose an ideal solution for dealing with ‘uncivilized’ nomadic tribes that leaves them adequately integrated into society in a short amount of time.

    “He also said that Aborigines were a “dying race” with a failed culture”

    He was correct in a sense, although destroyed might be a better word than failed. There are plenty of fragments of the many cultures of the Australian aboriginals, but there is no culture that is sufficient to cover an entire lifestyle. The issues come when they attempt to adopt various aspects of western society to fill the gaps and the various incompatibilities between modern society and native culture.

    Although it’s easy to lay blame on various historical figures, there are no obvious or easy solutions. I think there are many that are too eager to blame a generation for not solving an impossible problem that they simply inherited.