Interracial Porn: Holding Us Back While Getting Us Off? (Pt 1)
by Racialicious special correspondent Wendi Muse
I am by no means an expert on porn, nor do I pretend to be. Yet considering the volume of hits on xtube.com or youporn.com that could be traced back to my IP address, one would assume so. If not that, one would at least be able to mentally file away my name with all the other people in the “creepy” category. Some of you may be wondering about this new obsession of mine that has developed during my period of hiatus, but I can fortunately hold someone else partially responsible.
In November of 2007, Courtney, a contributing blogger for Feministing, reviewed a book aptly titled Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity by Robert Jensen. Much like fellow feminist theorist, the late Andrea Dworkin, Jensen considers pornography a visual manifestation of misogyny—hatred of women captured on film. With sexual arousal distracting the viewer, acts of violence and subjugation of women are interpreted through a different lens than, say, if they were portrayed minus the element of sex. Yet also like Dworkin, Jensen’s work borders on misandrist, stating as his major thesis that “If men are going to be full human beings, we first have to stop being men.” Using pornography as a microcosmic representation of the world as a whole, at least insofar as relationships between men and women are concerned, Jensen proposes that masculinity must be abandoned altogether as, in his opinion, it is inextricably linked to a world in which women are viewed as stupid, submissive, and deserving of abuse.
I agree with Courtney in her mention of the many loopholes within the book, in particular her comments regarding women who enjoy submission or even pain during sex. I also concur with regard to her discussion of images and scenarios within pornography playing out in real life. Many once-taboo subjects and sex acts, including, but not limited to, threesomes or multi-partner sex, anal sex, BDSM, and even the use and purchase of sex toys, have become mainstream. Porn is not entirely the culprit, but its proliferation has certainly aided Americans in their burgeoning sexual open-mindedness. With an orgasm only a click away, pornography has experienced a similar transformation to that of the music industry, with the creation of mp3s and pirate sites, and the film and tv industry, with the onslaught of youtube and bootleg dvds of sidewalk entrepreneurs.
After reading Courtney’s review of Getting Off (which you can read, in full, here) I wanted to take Jensen’s argument a bit further. Despite my disagreeing with him on some points, I felt that Jensen’s thoughts on gender roles in porn could be easily applied to the use of race in porn, particularly interracial porn. Following his thesis, in short, that masculinity by definition supports a system of misogyny, a characteristic clearly demonstrated in (straight) pornography, and the only way to progress beyond this conveyance of hatred toward women is to eradicate masculinity in its entirety, I came up with the following:
Race, at least in the terms that we define it presently, supports a system of hatred toward people of color, as demonstrated in (interracial) pornography, and the only way to progress beyond this conveyance of hatred toward people of color is to eradicate the use of race in its entirety.
The word “race” could easily be replaced with a term like “white supremacy,” but considering that several genres of interracial porn include couples of color (though considered different “races”), I felt it prudent to stick simply to “race,” as whites are not the only ones guilty of acting out on and consuming films related to such fantasies. Much like my research on Craigslist personal ads, I decided to search for films based on racial categories like “Latina,” “Asian,” “Black,” and “White.” Also, considering that there are several categories within each, I narrowed my search to nationalities and regions in some cases, searching for films based on categories like “Brazilian,” “Mexican,” “Chinese,” “Korean,” “African,” “Eastern European,” etc. The results were hard to stomach at times, but they were nothing short of the usual. My search provided me with a plethora of racial and regional stereotypes—all, of course, essential to one’s sexual prowess (or in some cases, lack thereof; the descriptions of “Mandingo” porn films often included a line about a white woman’s presumably white husband not being able to satisfy her).
The themes I uncovered were strikingly similar to those I enumerated in the Craigslist ad article, furthering my aforementioned statement on porn finding its way into real life, though with a few twists. For example, there were far more films with black women in submissive roles than I had expected, especially considering the stereotype of black women being incredibly domineering. Given, most of these films included multiple white male partners in a group sex scene, often with a description detailing the black woman’s sexual hunger, so the aspect of the stereotype regarding black female libidos was left in tact. Other deviations from the common stereotypes included black men in submissive roles (though these were more common in gay films regarding “homothugs” than in straight films). Also, bearing in mind that sites like youporn and xtube allow for the uploading of both professional and amateur films in full and clip form by members worldwide, certain American concepts of race had to be altered to accommodate more international ideas, for example “Asian” in England is a term representative of people of South Asian descent, whereas in the U.S., the term more commonly describes people from East Asia.
For the most part, however, despite the inclusion of porn uploaded from other parts of the world, racism was rampant in terms of stereotyping and essentialization. In accounting for the hundreds of hung black stallions, bored and docile white MILFs, barely legal, small-chested Asian “girls,” and desperate, sex-hungry Latinas longing for citizenship, I couldn’t help but wonder: if we rid ourselves of race, would porn like this exist? What would we even call racism at that point?
The hypothetical situation I posed above is clearly as far-fetched as Jensen’s advocacy of ending masculinity, but in the long run, especially with so many supporters of the eradication of race and the installation of colorblind institutions, could an erasure of race as we know it lead to an altering of our fantasies and their portrayal on screen?
To be continued next week . . .
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Ike wrote:
Another interesting thing to note about race and pornography is the nonexistence of Asian (including South, East, and Southeast) men compared with the abundance of Asian women.
Okay, now I guess I can be filed away as “creepy” too. =)
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 11:34 am ¶
Deborah wrote:
Actually, nowhere is this more apparent than the website entitled “Fee Black Movies”.
It used to be a sure-fire hit to find clips of all black people all the time, doing their thing. Over the past 10 years, I have seen this site move to more and more interracial clips.
And quite frankly, this is not what I want to see. I also feel porn has disintegrated to a point where women of color are merely objects - the pleasure of black women, their sensuality, their desire is not cared about or depicted. They are merely there to fill the man’s fantasy.
It’s not the same with white women in porn. They are depicted as having insatiable appetites once introduced but also must be “trained” or even “tricked” into liking sex. But at least someone is willing to admit that they have appetites at all or that they have a need to be pleasured.
I’ve often thought about starting a site of my own depicting the softer side of sex with black people and only black people. Something like Beautfiul Agony but only with, for and produced by black people.
You are definitely on the right track with porn & sex being tied to racism. Have you heard of the Mandingo Clubs or Ace of Spades swinger jewelry? Googling those terms are a wake up call all by themselves.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 11:34 am ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
definitely, deborah. details magazine did a feature on the Mandingo aspect of swinging that latoya covered last year (it can be found on the list of older articles on the right hand sidebar of the racialicious home page). interesting stuff…
porn, sex, and racism go hand in hand…i just wonder how, if any, is it possible to combine porn, sex, and people of color without there being racism involved in the way we see it depicted in film…
and ike, i totally agree. the only time i really see asian men in mainstream pornography is in gay films, and often in roles that are more submissive, generally with the asian male being a bottom (not to say that is a submissive position, by any means, but in porn films, they are usually portrayed as synonymous). porn suffers from the same problem as mainstream film, lending itself further to the characterization of the industry being a microcosm of the real world, that being the absence of apia men whatsoever. and when they ARE present, they fulfill stereotypical roles of the asexual nerd or the ninja…with little in between.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 11:41 am ¶
burfday wrote:
I hear you Deborah, but I think the degradation, careless disregard for the woman’s pleasure, and sexual objectification is pretty much universal in most pornography, it doesn’t skew more for black women than white.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 12:52 pm ¶
Aerik wrote:
I’m not that surprised at all that you found many black women in submissive roles while the stereotype is that they’re domineering control freaks. It’s common for the manifestations of bigoted fantasies to have opposite characteristics of bigoted stereotypes of reality. Kind of like when creationists make movies in which science is ass backwards and so is their history. So a bunch of guys who think black women are uppity decide to make them submissive much of the time in porn. How’s that surprising now?
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 3:45 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
hi aerik, surprising meaning that i saw more of it of that sort than i expected. most of the porn and fantasies i have seen or heard expressed by others, or even read in personal ads that i researched for an older article related to a black woman being in a domineering role, and there were many many porn films that i came across for this article that fit the bill, many more than those showing black women in submissive roles. but what surprised me was that i came across a few more of the submissive bw ones that i thought i would find.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:12 pm ¶
justin wrote:
There are plenty of Asian men in Japanese pornography.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:26 pm ¶
Karl wrote:
Ive read the book and also worked as a porn editor during college years. Regarding stereotypes and the function of race in porn…you are missing the point when it comes to all those depictions of black women in submissive roles. If you looked at porn dvds and read the blurbs, you would find that regardless of the level of submission of said black actress, on the box she will be described as either sassy/uppity/etc and is getting what she deserves etc. Black women are uppity/loud/etc not because they actually get loud etc but because they are black. The skin is shorthand for the aforementioned traits.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:31 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
karl, thanks for that comment. you’re right–even in the submissive position, her function is seen as only temporary, the sex being punishment for initially challenging what *should* be her role.
however, i didn’t “miss the point.” i even note the following in the article:
“Given, most of these films included multiple white male partners in a group sex scene, often with a description detailing the black woman’s sexual hunger, so the aspect of the stereotype regarding black female libidos was left in tact. ”
the trope still finds itself back into each piece, even if the character of color in an interracial film is supposedly behaving in a way that goes “against” their respective stereotypes position.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:36 pm ¶
Karl wrote:
And the aforementioned traits are shorthand for the skin/race. Also, the majority of the bm/ww stuff also serves a similar historically racialist purpose as well. The black phallus (described as freakishly larged etc) is used to punish ww… also for being uppity etc. Keep in mind, that in porn, when a woman’s desire is admitted or discussed…it is always negative…in a misogynistic society, women are not to have sexual desires, and if she does it is to her downfall…think “oh yeah, is that what you want b**ch? take it!” or during violent sodomy saying things such as ” you said u like it in the @$$…huh?”. The fulfillment of said woman’s desire (brought to us via directors of course) is a form of punishment (think parent locking kid in closet and forcing him to smoke packs of cigarettes as punishment for catching him smoke cigarettes).
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:39 pm ¶
Karl wrote:
The fact that members of the exploited/subjugated groups in porn etc consume it does not mitigate or cancel out the subjugation/exploitation. Think molested children who can not get sexual gratification later in life unless it is replay of activites/relations during molestation. People have a sickening ability to convince themselves that they like something harmful to them, especially when facing or stopping said thing is a daunting task….
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:44 pm ¶
Karl wrote:
Wendi- understood/missed aforementioned.
What I meant to say (think I touched on it in second post) was that whether she is depicted as a happy hippie/librarian or the most gentle of women even when being done up by only one person…she will be sold (via box blurbs/scene description) as ghetto this or hot black b*$ch that. When consumed on net (scene downloaded) the descriptions usually fall along those lines as well and this is despite the objective conditions/plot of said scene most of the time.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:54 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
gotcha. thanks for the clarification, karl. your comments with regard to the piece add a lot, so thanks again.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 4:59 pm ¶
FranSky wrote:
If anyone is interested… there is some wonderful lesbian porn out there that a lesbian of color has directed. One film is called the Crash Pad that featured WOC without any fetishization whatsoever. She also did one called Superfreak. Check out Pink & White Productions for more! http://pinkwhite.biz/
Peace!
~F
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 5:08 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:
Ah, I’ll never forget the time I wanted to make a pie (ugh this already sounds dirty, doesn’t it) and only had bananas and flour in the house. A Google image search for a pic of a banana cream pie turned up an image for an Asian female porn flick (get it? banana?).
Porn movie titles are hilariously notorious for being, obviously, crassly sexually explicit. But you don’t know whether to laugh ironically or cry genuinely when you see stuff like “Wh-oriental Geishas X” etc.
As for black male-white female porn, is it wrong to guess that the majority of consumers are white males?
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 6:14 pm ¶
Karl wrote:
“As for black male-white female porn, is it wrong to guess that the majority of consumers are white males?”
A decade or so ago this was unequivocally the case. Nowadays, it still holds, but not with as large a disparity as it used to be. That said, black men in the industry as is case with women of color, don’t have “names” (in some cases this is literal) until having been in white/mainstream production house IR stuff, usually on a regular basis… Also, there are still repercussions for starting out in black flics if one is a white female….just realizing i sound like I know entirely too much about the damn industry.
Posted 22 Jan 2008 at 10:45 pm ¶
dnA wrote:
I kinda agree with that, but I’m torn between whether the source of that hatred stems from racism or from America’s basic problems with sex and sexuality.
Although, nothing expresses how frightened of sex America is than the oversexualizing of black folks as part of the rationale for enslaving them.
I think honestly you’ve only tapped the tip of the iceberg in terms of how pornography functions as an outlet for private racist fantasies, the sites you’ve mentioned seem pretty tame compared to some of the shit out there.
I also think that there are probably more black men who want to live vicariously through those sexual stereotypes by consuming porn than it might seem. I know that I have friends who watch it, and they’re not white…
There are just a lot of issues at work here, race, gender, ect. I’m looking forward to part 2.
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 12:20 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
thanks for your comment, dna.
yes indeed, this is only part 1. i knew if i actually put everything in at once, it would be far too daunting a task to expect readers to even attempt to crack it (aka it’d be like 90 pages b/c it’s a subject i could talk about for weeks).
also, i fully acknowledge that people of color engage willingly in the partaking of and acting out of somewhat racist fantasies, hence my mentioning that in the paragraph following my reshaping of jensen’s thesis.
lastly, i used mainstream sites because they are the most commonly consulted for porn AND they are free. i wasn’t going to shell out $99 a month or stop bathing in order to seek out the super underground stuff, not even for racialicious, even though i love yall
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 1:28 pm ¶
dcase wrote:
Great post. I was reminded a couple years back of the role of porn in promoting stereotypes and racism when I found that my colleague ( a white male married to an Asian female) was a real pornophile. After a post-qualifier exam drinks, he proceeded to show me his porn collection which included such titles as “My Daughter’s F***ing a N****r,” “Black Thai Affair,” “Black D***s in White Chicks,” ” Affirmative Action”, etc. At first, I laughed it off and told him he was crazy but then it struck me that he , an ostensible liberal, well educated, who was strongly supportive of minority and female rights, would find pleasure in such stuff that depended on racial stereotypes. Then, I thought of my black male friends who watched similar stuff, and seemed to find pride that the black men in these film were so “large” and were able to have sex with these white, asian, or latin females. It is definitely clear what role these films play in feeding and maintaining the racial imagination of our society.
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 1:50 pm ¶
Colin wrote:
See Wendi, I only wonder about the whole eradicating race part, not because I LOVE racism, but because it sounds like a dogwhistle conservatives use to refer to colorblindness. I am guessing you don’t mean that worldview, but I wonder where the difference lies between what you’re saying and the “let’s all just say race doesn’t exist anymore” crowd.
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:06 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
hi colin,
yeah i agree. i am addressing that more in pt 2, but in part one, i am just following the reasoning laid out by jensen to inquire whether or not ridding interracial porn of racism is even possible. would that be the only way to do it, just as jensen suggests the only way to rid the world is sexism is to get rid of masculinity.
more on this later
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:15 pm ¶
dnA wrote:
Wendi,
I knew you addressed that, but I saw some comments on here that seemed to think only white guys might partake.
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:44 pm ¶
dnA wrote:
A thought occurs. Don’t we want to “redefine” masculinity and “redefine” race, rather than eliminating them, which seems impossible, and as some people on this thread have suggested, might not even be desirable? Isn’t there a way to assert forms of gender and racial identity that are not reactionary and therefore not oppressive or limiting?
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:52 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
Karl wrote:
Ive read the book and also worked as a porn editor during college years
You must had one hell of a work study program.
*****
At any rate, I have no problem w/ the general concept of porn, but I can’t separate it from this type of discussion.
@dcase - with a collection that broad, it seems like deep down your friend believed interracial strife could be f@#*ed away?
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:52 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
dna,
that was one of my (and courtney’s) problems with jensen’s point in the book. but again this is just the intro, i’ll be getting into more of that later…thanks for the preview
Posted 23 Jan 2008 at 3:59 pm ¶
OW wrote:
Wendi,
If I understand your original hypothesis, then yes, if “race” as we commonly understood it were eliminated from our social perception, then the very allure of interracial porn (or interracial anything) would be eliminated with it. The whole point of IRP is about miscegenation (and I use the term in both its literal and historical meaning) and the temptations of taboo interminglings, cultural crossings, etc. etc. Remove race and you remove the taboo, at which point the skin color differences between actors ceases to be part of the psychological thrill, or at least, I’d presume that to be the case.
To me, the more interesting question: in a world free of sexism/misogyny, what would porn look like? (Hopefully, much better than it looks now).
For a humorous but thoughtful look at the porn industry and some of the issues raised, check out Peter Sagal (NPR) and his new book, “The Book of Vice.”
As for the idea of eliminating masculinity…maybe this is just splitting hairs but I don’t think eliminating masculinity is what’s needed as much as a transformation of its values and ideals. There is nothing, in my opinion, inherent to masculinity that demands it also be misogynistic but there are certainly no shortage of social forces that maintain - even reward - that association. Young boys grow up learning that misogyny is partially how they define and celebrate themselves as men. It’s that kind of deprogramming - rather than a whole sale eradication of the notion of masculinity - that could represent an important place to start.
Posted 24 Jan 2008 at 3:31 am ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
ow,
your question re: misogyny is interesting. that’s exactly what jensen is getting at. he thinks masculinity leads to misogyny or at least that misogyny is an inherent characteristic of masculinity, as masculinity is more or less defined as the opposite of femininity. and considering that those two terms are defined mainly by social norms, that are laden with sexism, heteronormativity, etc, we run into major problems with both categories. i would even go as far to say that femininity, in the terms we consider part of it today, can be deemed misogynistic and sexist as well..but that’s a huge discussion worthy of another post and maybe not so suited for this site as we deal more with race.
however, your statement on race is interesting because ya, remove racism in irp and it kind of kills the thrill, right? i am going to explore more of that in part 2, but i think it’s an important question to consider. does the fun dissipate if we don’t combine racism with images of arousal?
Posted 24 Jan 2008 at 9:39 am ¶
OW wrote:
Wendi,
“does the fun dissipate if we don’t combine racism with images of arousal?”
Is interracial curiosity inherently bound up in racism (i.e. the exploitation of unequal power relations at the social level)?
My cautionary answer would be that it is impossible to delink the two just given the historical and ideological weight of racism. In a fictitiously equal world, where racism had never existed, it’s possible that interracial allure could be based on, say, aesthetics…that is to say, attractions to different skin color would be (politically) similar to attractions in different body type.
But the problem is: that world is impossible to conceive of. Even if racism magically disappeared tomorrow, you can’t hit a reset button on the previous 500 years of “modern” racial ideology.
Why is there so much, for example, White/Black male - Asian female porn, for example? Could it be bound up in histories of colonialism? Military imperialism? Even if those themes are never present in the narrative of the porn itself, it is utterly impossible to disentangle the history from the attraction. Likewise, the popularity of Black male/White female pairings would also seem to reference, whether explicitly or obliquely, one of the ultimate sexual taboos in our society, and isn’t that part of the allure/attraction to it? (I should note, in both cases, misogyny is ever-present, so it’s not just a “race thing” but bound up in the intersections of race and gender, etc. etc.)
So while I could envision a situation where interracial sexual imagery (”porn” or otherwise) could be divorced from historical and contemporary racism in its intent, it’s always part of the backdrop. As viewers raised in that racial climate, I think many of us would ultimately read those suggestions into the imagery.
An interesting - and controversial - question that has been raised by others - UC Davis’ infamous D. Hamamoto being one of the best known - is whether pornographic imagery can be used in the service of ANTI-racism work. In other words, can we use porn as an empowering agent to fight racism, given its pervasiveness and influence on the human/social imagination?
This raises the obvious question of: “uh, what the hell would that look like?” And it bringing this back to your point, I think one would also want to ask, “would it still be ‘hot’”?
Of course, now I’ve made a full 360 without reaching much of a conclusion. I do think this gets at how entangled the discussion gets. I feel like the bulk of debate around porn comes back to what function porn has at the level of both personal and social consumption. Is it just about titillation and self-gratification (the Nina Hartley/sexual libertarian p.o.v.)? Or is it about mirroring and enforcing some of our worst impulses around gender and race in a visceral, visually potent form (what I presume to be Jensen’s p.o.v.). And as I’ve tried to note above: I don’t think you can ever separate those two things completely which is why I don’t trust the zealots on both sides of that line who seem unwilling to accept that kind of ambivalence.
To borrow from the Feministing post you linked to, someone in those comments mentioned Samuel Delany and I think his writing on the personal contradictions (but with social ramifications) of porn speak directly to the impossibility of resolving some of these contradictions.
I’m also thinking about E. Bernstein’s book “Temporarily Yours” about sex workers (prostitution, not porn) and how a discussion of the ethics, morals and ramifications of sexual labor really needs to be seen against the larger backdrop of all labor (thus, we finally get to work class in here). In other words, to see women constantly demeaned, exploited and brutalized, one hardly has to visit the street corner, massage parlour or porn racks; those women are all around us in a neo-liberal economy, potentially sacrificing bodies and dignity in order to get by. However, you rarely see the same kind of visceral passions (no pun intended) raised around, say, domestic or factory workers, as you do around sex workers.
I’ve commonly seen people write, “I would never date a man who consumed porn” but I’ve rarely seen someone say, “I would never date a man who hired a low-wage female worker to clean his apartment.”
Note: I’m not suggesting that there’s a hypocrisy here - not at all - only that it’s clear that discussions around porn, sex, society, etc. tend to invite a separate - but often invisible - set of criteria that we should challenge to make more visible.
Posted 24 Jan 2008 at 1:38 pm ¶
Josh wrote:
i dont think porn is a/the problem. first off, we have to establish that we are talking about porn from men for men. of course there are also women involved behind the scenes, however, the audience is men. so of course you will see men doing to women what they wanna do, or men having women do things to them. there is little porn from women for women that i know. anyway, the point is that i dont think you can judge porn like that easily. since its made by men for men and deals with the core of masculinity, it by default puts women in a lower position. if you had (purely sexual) porn for women, it would be fair to assume that roles are reversed, though maybe it would look different. also, i think that women are not being made objects in porn. 1) even if the guy f*cks and the woman gets f*cked, the guy is equally reduced to his sexuality as the woman is to hers. 2) the philosophic argument(dont remember by whom): by willfully accepting the status of an object, the status of being an object is automatically denied, since its a deliberate choice.
i dont think porn has anything to do with racism anymore nowadays. porn is a business, operating in a free market and if there is demand for these kinds of niches, like demand for shoes that are good for basketball, but also have a certain look, these niches must be filled for business to flourish. in no way will some blacks on blondes movie make a black male have a different view of a white woman or something like that.
i think the porn/misogyny issue is a sympton of what perhaps has been referred to as our problematic masculinity. why do men like to subjugate women? porn only confirms that this is what its like, i seriously doubt that it plays an active role creating our problematic masculinity. mans (apparent) dislike of women is rooted in something else. what i do concede, however, is that male teens exposure to porn damages their sexual development, as their first encounter with “the real deal” can easily give them the impression that women like it like that.
Posted 25 Jan 2008 at 10:29 am ¶
lauren wrote:
I don’t know but it seems like every other year. or every other day somebody have a problem with (porn, wwe , or hip-hop/women in hip-hop videos) one thing i will say how come nobody is asking the men & women who do it. are they doing for a living and good pay. but feel lonely and just want to do it anyways. just maybe some of the black women do cause they don’t have a good black man. I don’t really have the answer to this its a little more to it than this.
Posted 20 Feb 2008 at 6:33 pm ¶