Arby’s to the Irish: can’t you take a joke?
by Carmen Van Kerckhove
This Arby’s commercial is making some Irish-Americans really angry. Check out this recent letter to the editor of Irish America magazine (hat tip HighJive):
A television commercial currently aired by Arby’s restaurants features a group of laboratory chimpanzees so happy to have sampled Arby’s product that they break into a traditional Irish step dance. Rather than elicit my normal belly laugh, I was immediately reminded of the horrendous Punch and [Thomas] Nast political cartoons that lampooned our people in the past. The sting was immediate, taking my breath away.
This web site has some examples of the way Irish people were regularly depicted with simian features as “hot-headed, old-fashioned, and drunkards” and as “uncivilized, unskilled and impoverished.” Let’s not forget that not too long ago, the Irish weren’t regarded as white.
So what was Arby’s response? Well, typical, really:
We’re sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction with our current advertising.
Many times we choose to use tongue-in-cheek humor and satire in our commercials in an effort to communicate information about the Arby’s menu in an engaging and entertaining manner.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Paul wrote:
Why must the Irish and Italians always pull the we were oppressed too card? They are white and have all the benefits of being white. So please spare us the hurt feelings and indignation.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 2:32 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:
How come no one complains about Lucky Charms?
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 2:38 pm ¶
jBullfrog wrote:
“please spare us the hurt feelings and indignation.” / “How come no one complains about Lucky Charms?”
so they are either being too sensitive or not sensitive enough… what, are we playing the oppression olympics now?
There is always going to be someone more oppressed than you (given that you’re reading this). Does that make any form of oppression you are forced to endure unacknowledgable?
And there *have* been complaints against Lucky Charms…
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 3:47 pm ¶
jd wrote:
while I agree with both of you guys (hell, for the longest time I thought the name “paddy wagon” came from the irish cop driving the thing), could Arby’s response be any more patronizing? Even just saying “yeah, we thought of that, but you’re not discriminated against anymore so suck it up” would have been loads better.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 4:02 pm ¶
Ailurophile wrote:
Being partly of Irish extraction myself, I can say that my reaction to the Arby’s commercial is a shrug. Just another stupid ‘mersh in a field full of them. Arby’s could have handled it better, though, as in at least not being patronizing and blow-offy.
The reason things like this commercial, Lucky Charms, etc. don’t bother me is that, Irish or no, I’M WHITE and get all the bennies of that. I can’t get behind the OMG OPPRESSED feeling. Crappy things happened to my ancestors but then again, I defy anyone to find an ancestor to whom crappy things didn’t happen.
Now, OTOH, the “Plastic Paddy” phenomenon I detest. “I’m 1/8 Irish and I will show my pride by having bad ‘Celtic Knotwork’ tattoos and getting plastered every St. Patrick’s Day!” I realize this has nothing to do with discrimination, but it’s frickin’ annoying.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 5:05 pm ¶
Mickey wrote:
While you can appreciate his indignation, you have to step back and say….huh.
Yes the Irish were discriminated against, mainly because of their Catholic roots. At the time, Catholocism was thought to be little more than a cult. As the numbers of Catholics grew (not just the Irish but Italians as well), the Irish were able to be accepted in mainstream society. The white skin made it a whole lot easier.
You don’t hear anyone with the last name McCarty being denied for jobs anymore.
Again, not to say that he can’t be upset, but as a White man in America, he is at the top of the food chain. You can’t have it any better than that.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 7:03 pm ¶
latinamericanprinces wrote:
Ailurophile you’re an excellent example of how eliminating oppression and discrimination renders these jokes “harmless”. When people say “oh get over the past oppression”, they assume that all oppression and discrimination is done with. Obviously if you’ve never been a victim you’ll be less sensitive to this type of “joke”. That’s great. I can hope that someday it will be true for all, but not likely. However, for those non-victims, you should never forget that others haven’t been so lucky and a little sensitivity goes a long way.
For Ailurophile and others like s/he, of course you don’t have to get behind the oppressed feeling, but simply understand that the oppression isn’t behind or over for everyone. Thus had Arby’s simply been a little more sensitive to the complaints, this discussion wouldn’t be so necessary. These insensitive jokes only fuel the pain of very real discrimination. Once the harsher versions are eliminated these jokes cease to have such strong effects.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 7:37 pm ¶
latinamericanprinces wrote:
And can I add that even when widespread discrimination is “over” (in the past) for a group. Individuals may continue to suffer depending on the where they live.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 7:38 pm ¶
Colin wrote:
Prejudice is prejudice. There’s nothing wrong with feeling offended at such an image being portrayed of one’s culture, and there’s nothing wrong with being cool with it. Arby’s probably doesn’t have the intellectual abilities within its company to form a coherent reply.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 8:12 pm ¶
Elizabeth wrote:
Why must the Irish and Italians always pull the we were oppressed too card? They are white and have all the benefits of being white. So please spare us the hurt feelings and indignation.
I do see what one thing has to do with another. It’s ok to portray someone as a monkey because they have white privilege?
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 9:10 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:
Why must the Irish and Italians always pull the we were oppressed too card? They are white and have all the benefits of being white. So please spare us the hurt feelings and indignation.
Wow. A stereotype is a stereotype; it doesn’t matter what color it’s wrapped in. They HURT people, regardless of who they are. Obviously there’s a problem because people of that ethnicity ARE GETTING PISSED OFF ABOUT IT and that’s all I need to know.
Be honest. When was the last time you’ve seen an Italian depicted as something other than a gangster and an Irishman as anything other than a) a drunk or b) someone from the “wrong” side of the tracks who gets in fights? The movie “In America” doesn ‘t count because they were immigrants AND poor, which are “acceptable” Hollywood stereotypes for the Irish.
Arby’s doesn’t give a damn about Irish people either; note the lame letter they sent instead of simply pulling the ad.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 9:31 pm ¶
Ailurophile wrote:
Latinamericanprincess, let me clarify: I’m not saying people shouldn’t say they are oppressed. Rather, I don’t think that white people - which includes the Irish in the 21st Century - ought to complain about being oppressed on racial or ethnic grounds, at least too loudly. (I’m not talking about white gays being oppressed as gays, or white women being oppressed as women.)
And again, I think Arby’s whiffed it. They could have been more sensitive. However, I don’t think any Irish person is oppressed these days just because they are Irish or have a surname like Murphy or red hair or other “Irish characteristics.” (Red hair really comes from the Vikings but that’s another topic.) I think Bono, for instance, can get a cab whenever he wants, and is never mistaken for the doorman in a fine hotel.
And the Irish were ill-treated by the British; but now the Irish probably employ large quantities of Brits because their economy is better, so we can’t say the Irish are still suffering from the Potato Famine.
Posted 20 Dec 2007 at 11:18 pm ¶
EH wrote:
I feel a bit of sympathy for the people who were offended. At the same time however I can’t stop thinking about the sheer number of Irish Americans I’ve talked to who will bring up discrimination against the Irish 80 + years ago to write off the notion that racism exists today.
I also can’t stop thinking about the number of Irish Americans I’ve talked to who say that Irish stereotypes don’t bother them, so why do minorities get offended.
Actually maybe I don’t feel that much sympathy at all. Oh well.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 12:24 am ¶
Colin wrote:
Kaonashi,
I wonder, if one is going to portray a stock Irish-American or Italian-American, how that portrayer cannot, be default, have some pre-existing or then-created stereotypes attributed to the portrayal…
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 12:33 am ¶
April wrote:
@ Bullfrog — I agree with you.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 3:18 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
I should add: People in Canada who complain about The Sopranos don’t do so because of the language, but because it reenforces the Italian American=mobster stereotype.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 8:32 am ¶
Heather wrote:
I think that simians have the most cause for offense:
1. They are portrayed as being inspired and excited by filthy disgusting Arby’s food.
2. They have been digitally forced to behave like lowly humans instead of the glorious tree-beasts that they are.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 9:47 am ¶
ForgiveMe wrote:
Uh yeah, seeing that no one sees you coming from a mile away and crosses to the other side of the road or runs into her house, I just cannot sympathise. I’m sorry.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 2:22 pm ¶
meownette wrote:
I really don’t think that the letter writer was trying to claim that she is the victim of current-day oppression based on ethnicity. I think she was objecting to a portrayal that lacks sensitivity, given its past cultural connotations. I would like to think that we apply this standard to all ethnic and racial representations, regardless of current levels of oppression because they are, bottom line, offensive.
Sort of off-topic, but I think looking at past scare-mongering attempts to portray Italian-Americans as threatening, hot-blooded, papist Catholics is really interesting because it’s essentially the EXACT set of bullshit characteristics we keep getting told apply to Mexican-Americans and other Latino immigrants.
Posted 21 Dec 2007 at 4:10 pm ¶
Roger Green wrote:
Just seemed to me that Arby’s blundered because I don’t think such an ad - offensive as it was likely to be for some - is going to help sell more sandwiches.
Posted 24 Dec 2007 at 11:44 am ¶