Bougie* by Design

by Racialicious Special Correspondent Latoya Peterson

“No one ever means bougie as a compliment. It’s never ‘Oh, you’re so bougie!’ It’s ALWAYS a negative trait.”

I had asked one of my close friends about being bougie and how the word is perceived in black circles. Depending on how it is used, bougie can almost be a curse word. Bougie is a stand in word for being racially removed, for pretending to be superior, for being out of touch with “true blackness.”

For many, being hit with a bougie label comes at random. Maybe it’s because you speak English with tight diction and clear pronunciation. Maybe it’s because you prefer off-broadway to the chitlin’ circuit. Or maybe it’s because someone doesn’t like how you dress, how you wear your hair, or your attitude.

When I lived in Prince George’s County, MD I got called a “bougie bitch” so often I started to think it was my name. What prompted those outbursts? I refused to get into a car with a man I did not know personally. I’ll stay my bougie ass right here and wait for the bus, thankyouverymuch.

Bougie is most often a label applied to us by someone other than ourselves, as a way of demonstrating their superiority. It implies that they are authentic and you are counterfeit.

I am not sure if the term bougie as I have encountered it exists outside of the black community. Still, I am always more amused than offended when I encounter the term. After all, the counter to being bougie is to prove one’s own street cred by discussing their own hardscrabble beginnings or the rough areas where they are affiliated.

I used to play this game, particularly when I was younger. Any assertions of the word “bougie” would magically vanish by reciting my father’s address. As I grew older, I stopped playing the game. It was foolish to me, particularly because the types of people held up as the paragon of blackness, the regular folks, the street preachers and hustlers, the young hoods and door-knocker earring wearing divas that populate my family tree are the people who pushed me to become as bougie as possible.

****

For my father’s 43rd birthday, he decided he wanted to do something a little different and step outside of his culinary comfort zone. Over the protests of my younger brother - who desperately wanted to make a mess of a plate of fried shrimp at Red Lobster - he asked me to name some more interesting restaurants near where I live.

I mentioned the local Burmese place. Dad was game.

After selecting entrees, our appetizers were delivered. They were a Burmese twist on an Indian samosa - wrapped in rice paper and lightly fried into small triangles. Dad ate one and enjoyed it. He asked what they were. I told him it was a samosa.

“A Samoan?” he asked.

“No, Dad, a samosa,” I explained, emphasizing the final syllable. “You know, like what you normally eat at an Indian restaurant.”

My dad regarded me with a bemused smile.

“Toya,” he gently chastised, “there weren’t any Indian restaurants in South East in the 70s.”

Fuck me. There was nothing left for me to say. Like a good daughter, I shut up and ate my Samoan.

******

Though the scene I describe happened months ago, I still reflect on it often. To me, what happened perfectly describes the balances that are walked with people who are in the process of changing classes. Not a single word in the exchange above was exchanged with any kind of negative intent - we were just having a moment when our two worlds collided.

My father - like many parents - wanted to make sure his children enjoyed a life and standard of living that he was not able to benefit from as a child. His desires were manifested in two of his children and we have gone on to surpass his hopes. (To be fair, my parents both raised their stations in life as well - from being impoverished teen parents to successful business owners.)

My sister and I are exactly what my parents wanted.

However, we are the ones who internally deal with the class fallout. Changing classes isn’t exactly an easy process. There are markers that go along with status that bear evidence to the change. Those changes serve to force a wedge between you and the “others.”

****

Once upon a time (read: four years ago) when I was waiting tables at a spot in Dupont I happened to serve an older African-American man who worked for the DC school system. I asked him for his order, told him the specials, and was perplexed by his ever widening smile.

“You speak so well,” he beamed, and I inwardly cringed. “What school did you go to?”

I explained that I went to school in Montgomery County, but he continued to smile.

“You,” he proudly pronounced, ” are a credit to the race!”

I smiled weakly, hoping that the other tables around him did not hear.

OMG Please tell me he didn’t just say that around white people!

My mind whipped around for a few frantic moments trying to purge some of the memories this man had involuntarily called forth.

Stop it. Stop it! I don’t want to be a credit to the race. I don’t want to be part of the Talented Tenth! I don’t want to be different! I don’t want to stand out! Because if I stand out, and I am the credit to the race, what does that make my cousins? What does that make my friends? Are they blight? Why do we have to be marked as better or worse? What do you want from me?

My mind swirled, but the rational part of me realized that I was on the clock. I smiled and moved on. He left me a 40% tip.

*****

The fact that I am now different has never been a factor to my family. It is just seen as being part of Latoya’s overall eccentricities, just like me listening to alternative music and dying my hair funny colors. When my mother comes over, she makes a point to look into my refrigerator to ask about the random things I eat.

“What’s that?”

“Dried papaya.”

“What kind of wine is that?”

“Muscato wine - I forget the name, but it’s really sweet. You’d like it. Do you want some?”

“No - what’s that?”

“Edamame.”

“See, that’s why you’re always broke - buying crap like this at the bougie stores.”

She shuts the door to my fridge and sits on my bed. She, like my father, often finds herself amused at the person I have become. My parents consider me worldly, though I have never been off the continent. Mom looks around the room and sees art house movie posters and large canvases created by my friends. I operate in a different, interesting kind of world.

When I began to reflect on this piece, I came to an interesting realization. I have never been called bougie by anyone in my family. I have never been called bougie by anyone who was lower or lower middle class. Most of the accusations of bougie came from others in a similar situation - either born to the black middle and upper middle class, or people insecure about their transition. This is why I think the word bougie tends to be a grab for power more than anything else - to shame someone into being “properly black.”

But how am I supposed to take that notion? People who come from a privileged background are telling me to “be more authentic” and people who did not come from privilege encourage me to be smarter, to speak up more, to work harder, to learn more cool things about the world - and then bring these things back for them to enjoy.

Maybe the word bougie is intended to invoke shame at a perceived separation, a way to yoke people back into your fold. If you are bougie, the implication is that you have forgotten where you came from. Maybe, by invoking the word bougie, the speakers hope they can bring someone back into their idea of “blackness.” Or maybe by using the word bougie, they are drawing a line in the sand. If you are “bougie,” it means that I am authentic.

But again, what does it mean to be authentically black?

If black is what I am, how could anything I do be inauthentic?

****

Thanksgiving is coming.

My younger cousin is on MySpace, playing around. She emails me to say hi. I email her back and ask why she isn’t in school. Deftly avoiding my question, she parries with one of her own.

Are you coming to Thanksgiving?

I split last Thanksgiving between my mother’s house and my father’s house. My mother, adept at Thanksgiving made a full feast. My father, attempting his first Thanksgiving ever, needed a bit more help. I found myself pitching in around the kitchen helping to erect the second feast of the day. The table was awash in gray, brown, and beige food, so I ran to the store to make something quick and green.

“What the hell is that?”

My grandfather looked into the pan I pulled out from the oven.

“Asparagus.”

Sitting on the table, the asparagus was met with questionable stares. The unspoken question hung in the air: Why the hell couldn’t she have just made a pot of greens? (Answer: Because I only like my momma’s!) A few brave family members added a single stalk to their plate. My younger sister, aware of my strange food predilections, split the rest with me. While we ate, the adults tried the asparagus. They decided they liked it. They applauded the “children” for helping with the feast. They asked my older cousins when they were going to stop eating and start cooking. And the evening rolled on.

Back in the present, I smile at the memory. I realize that my younger cousin sent me another message.

Please come to Thanksgiving. I’ll eat the stuff you make.

*Bougie as in the short form of Bourgeoisie, taken to mean that someone has a bourgeois personality. By rights, bougie should be “bourgie” - but I can’t stand the r, and if we are going to bastardize the term I would rather bastardize it phonetically. A variation on bougie is siddity.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. About the intersection of class and race, and being “bougie” by design « Problem Chylde: Learning in Transition on 29 Nov 2007 at 10:20 pm

    […] realization that in the end, we all share the same fate.  Our fates are wound up together.   So one of my favorite comments in that thread pointed that out. My grandmother was the matriarch of our family. She was always proud of my […]

Comments

  1. Tami wrote:

    I think you hit on something when you said the label “bougie” is about a power grab. In my view, the word has little to do with class distinction–I come from a middle class background and no family member has ever accused me of being bougie, though I too am the “weird one” with the funny food and eclectic musical tastes.

    Bougie is about shaming folks for not being “black enough.” God how I hate the concept of not black enough. It’s about seeing someone who has adopted behaviors not stereotypically “black” as an arrogant betrayer of the community, and cutting him or her down to size. It’s about sending the message “you black person with your different ways, don’t go thinking you are better than me.” It’s colonized thinking–the ingrained belief that black people shouldn’t get too fancy, too educated, too adventurous or too successful–cause that’s for white folks.

    [I’m not talking about how your family uses the word, Latoya. My friends and family and I joke around like that, too. I’m talking about when the word is used as a weapon.]

    The last time I was called bougie was a couple of years ago. My husband and I were in the waiting area of shop where our car was being serviced. A group of young black people came in. They were maybe in their early 20s and a little rowdy, causing other patrons to look as one of them addressed the attendant.

    The woman was having car trouble, but she loudly informed the attendant that the shop’s prices were too high and repairs would take too long. She and her friends prepared to leave. But on the way out of the shop doors, she stopped, looked at my husband and I, who were each reading a book, and hissed “big head, bougie Negroes!”

    The group laughed and left.

    I think that woman was stressed about repairs that she couldn’t pay for, and perhaps shamed by the mostly white staff and patrons who she may have felt were judging her behavior and social status. And there my husband and I were, two other black folks, seemingly fitting in. I think labeling us bougie was the woman’s way of boosting herself by knocking us down. It was her way of reminding us (and the white patrons of the shop) of our blackness.

  2. Luscious Librarian wrote:

    I can definitely relate to the experience of transitioning through class levels. I too have been called Bou(r)ghie, but most of the time by my own family. I’ve tried to force them to define it, not for my own edification, but more of an excercise to let them see how silly the term is.

    I don’t really see the term as derogatory, because it’s always seemed synonymous with mobility. Boughie to me just indicates that that person can function in America, from the yacht club to the corner store.

    There is no such thing as authentice blackness and I really pity anyone who falls victim to their own narrow view of what ‘black’ is. If black is not affluent, articulate, comfortable with other races, or open to change, what is it?

  3. jessabean wrote:

    This was a really, really good read. I have never heard the term “bougie” before, but, like you mentioned, it may be because is isn’t really used outside the black community.

    Thank you for writing this. Just this morning, I was thinking of issues of transition/identity and how the reason my parents can’t help me deal with it is because they’ve never had to do it, at least not in the way I have, as a hapa.

    No one can define your authenticity except you. And you are awesome! :)

  4. Mes Deux cents wrote:

    Hi,

    The next time someone calls you “bougie”, tell them the correct term is Bourgeoisie, then just walk away. (lol) That’s what I do.

    Thanks

  5. Fiqah wrote:

    This was great. Painful, ’cause the subject at hand hits close to home for some of us, but great. Black essentialism hurts us all and denies the diversity within Black American culture. Oh, and Tami: I really feel you. Some years back, while attending a book-signing by Cornell West at Hue-Man Bookstore in Harlem, some jackhole on his phone referred - loudly - to the people waiting as “Oreos” and “bougie-assed [insert racial slur, plural].” Cornell West. Hue-Man. HARLEM. I wanted to cry.

  6. Elton wrote:

    Of course I know the term bougie. I grew up in a majority black town watching UPN.

    Though I’ve only seen it on the internet (where most of my awareness of Asian-American issues comes from), I believe a somewhat similar term we have is “whitewashed.”

    Coming from a working-class family and being the first member of my family to attend college, I think I know a bit of what you must feel. Although, we have a national/cultural/generational/language gap to deal with, too. I want to be true to my Chinese heritage while striving for the power and freedom that come with the American dream, but I feel like I’m losing touch with my roots, especially since I’m studying some pretty esoteric philosophical and musical things, and not studying to be a doctor or nurse or pharmacist like my parents would prefer. I know they’re in the restaurant right now struggling on my behalf, so I feel like a bad Asian. What’s worse, I *could* speak Cantonese, but I *don’t*. At least I don’t drink or smoke or have a girlfriend yet.

    Chappelle’s Show had a great set of skits on this subject called “Keepin’ It Real.”

  7. Jen* wrote:

    I’ve never looked at bougie as being connected to the ‘measuring’ of someone’s blackness…but more to their personal authenticity.

    Certainly, I’ve only ever heard it in reference to black people/in the black community, but I guess I took it more for the definition of someone who was ‘faking it’ for perceived social benefits. Basically interchanging the word for pretentious.

    The one time I’ve called someone bougie, I instantly regretted it. Somehow I knew, once I’d said it that it was worse than I’d originally thought, and I only said it to my sister [talking about a guy I know]. I used the term because I felt like this guy was going overboard trying to impress me.

    He talked about how much money he made [w/out dropping actual numbers - just ‘6 figures’], his travel, his connections, his job opportunities, the property he owned…and often these comments would end with a kind of conspiratorial grin. [which just confused me, since I wasn’t actually benefitting from his salary, travel, connections, etc.]

    So I called him ‘bougie’. Not because I didn’t find him ‘authentically black’ - I agree with Latoya’s statement: If black is what I am, how could anything I do be inauthentic? No, I called him ‘bougie’ cuz I just thought he was inauthentic. period. Black. but not real. He never really had anything to say that wasn’t about how great he was…so, I got the impression that despite all of his statements, he wasn’t really that great.

  8. mona wrote:

    This post is right on point.

    Where I grew up, to be called bourgie was bad, but not exactly “fightin’ words.” For me, the one that used to really sting in grade school was OREO… If you spoke correct English and looked interested in learning and getting good grades, then you were trying to be white.

    Like Fiqah said, “Black essentialism hurts us all and denies the diversity within Black American culture. “

  9. Chev wrote:

    This was fantastic, and I can relate to a lot of the experiences you shared. I agree that people use the term bougie almost as an attack, but, like Tami wrote, I think it’s not because of anything that you are doing wrong, but more because of their discomfort at your ease or versatility in different situations and among different groups of people. But, no one should ever let that hold her back. Life is too short not to experience all that you can and to learn as much as possible from everyone. And as far as being “bougie” meaning that I can’t be authentic in my “blackness”, I’ve been a black woman all my life and nothing could be more authentic.

  10. Spiffany wrote:

    With the holidays approaching, I always feel excited, blessed and a little frazzled about getting together with my huge, crazy family. This Thanksgiving is significant because it will be my first as a confirmed pescavegatarian (I do eat fish and shellfish, but am slowly phasing these out). But there will be no fried turkey, no succulent honey-glazed ham, and no chitlins for me, thanks!

    I remember my big sister’s reaction when I first informed her of my lifestyle change. At a cookout, she saw my plate heaped with the traditional soul food sides but noticed the absence of meat. I explained that I’d had something of a revelation recently and that I would no longer contribute my hard-earned dollars to an industry that willfully and systematically exploits brown and/or struggling, working-class folks - the meat-packing industry. (Anyone interested in finding out more should read Upton Sinclair’s ‘The Jungle’ and check out the movie ‘Fast Food Nation’).

    Now, my sister didn’t CALL me bougie. But the look on her face was absolutely dumbstruck. Finally she just said, “Oh.” Later, over sweet potato pie, she elaborated: “So you’re a vegetarian, you practice yoga, and what, you said you don’t listen to hip hop anymore, right?”

    “Well, no; I adore old school and underground hip hop. I just think most of the mainstream stuff is…well, shite.”

    “Do you mean shit?”

    “Um…this pie is really good, isn’t it?”

    I love my sister and I love my family, and I even love that they love being carnivores. But I have to be honest: it kind of hurts when your very own acts like they want to revoke your Black Card for taking a moral stand against something - especially when what you’re saying is that you won’t support the exploitation of people who are just trying to come up in the world and are getting their limbs hacked off in meat processing tanks, but are prevented from seeking justice by the fact that many are illegal aliens.

    Given this, it puzzles me that I’ve been accused (never blatantly by a family member, but by others) of losing touch with where I come from. In fact, the more informed I am about the world out there, and the more I’m willing to not only think but LIVE outside the box…the closer I feel to who I really am. And I am black, damn it. And nobody’s taking away my Black Card, no matter how much tofu(rkey) I eat!

  11. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

    Maybe there should be a manual about being “properly black.”

    I could think of a lot of times when it would really come in handy!

    Seriously, I’ve always resented this whole idea that there’s only one way to be “authentically Black” and if you don’t measure up to that standard, you’re “bougie”.

    Especially because that idea is usually paired with the concept that to be “really Black” you cannot be intelligent or have any desire to improve yourself.

    Basically, it’s White America’s contempt for our race, mirrored in our own eyes.

    In any case, I’m quite sure that if I were to drive down the New Jersey Turnpike in a 2006 Cadillac, the state troopers would see me as being “authentically Black”!!!

  12. afrikanisedbee wrote:

    I just realized that I’ve never been called bougie to my face, but I have definitely used the word to describe people around me– I go to a liberal arts college in the NE and bougie here isn’t a term for just the black students. Every working-class student, and student of color knows whats up. We’re all struggling with our place and identity, because we suddenly are suppossed to graduate and be successful.

  13. DWS wrote:

    The best revelation I ever had was that I had options and once I consciously began exercising those options, I could not allow those who felt they had none to derail me.

    Latoya, I could relate to your interaction with your parents. My mother always used to ask me “Who do you think you are? Ms. Ann?” My response, “no, but then again it was you who raised me to aim higher my dear.”

    I say call me “bougie” if you want to. I’m making the most of my life experience. I encourage everyone else to do the same. I’m not saying it’s easy but it is a choice.”

  14. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

    Tami, LL, Fiqah, Mona - y’all got it. And Mona, you are right about the oreo thing…but that’s a whole ‘nother post.

    Jessabean and Elton - I am glad you were able to get something out of my piece. I always love hearing about how others have similar struggles - there’s a kind of kinship in that that I enjoy. I know there are a couple Asian American mags that do address some of these issues. I am working on a review of three of them: Audrey, East West, and Thirteen Minutes.

    Jen - I can relate. One of the people I can think of who had issues with my blackness was very similar to the person you describe. Like he was always trying to overcompensate. I try to avoid labeling people and allow them to speak for themselves. (However, I say this after having years to reflect on my experiences and having said some of the hurtful statements I now try to dissuade others from using.)

    Afrikanisedbee - Hell. yeah. Transitioning is tough as hell! I think it’s one of the reasons I keep reading and re-reading Benilde Little’s Good Hair. A character in lit that actually deals with the same struggles I do? That feels insecure? I love that book, I don’t care if it wasn’t her best effort. It was honest. There is a section in the novel about the main character, Alice, and her quest for a guy who can “do the levels - Veuve Clicquot with CEOs and still have ribs with the brothers who work transit.” I read that phrase and was like, yes, that is the kind of guy I need.

    Greg -

    Yeah, I call bullshit on those labels. (but again, see above - it was a process.) As far as I am concerned, African-Americans need more people to represent and represent DIFFERENT ways of living. It is also difficult to put your money where your mouth is. I’ve had to suck up a lot of things I hate and deal with it because it is part of black diversity. James Baldwin and Zane can peacefully coexist (though I will quibble about shelf space and labeling…but that’s a whole other post.)

    Mes Deux Cents - LOL, I shall remember that the next time someone gets pissed at me for not being interested in random strangers. “It’s bourgeoisie muthafucka!” has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

    Spiff & Chev - Thanks for stopping by, homies!

  15. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    I suspect every minority has terms for a member who is deemed unauthentic or a sellout. For American Indians, such terms include Tonto, fort Indian, hang-around-the-fort Indian, Tepee Tom, apple, and coconut.

  16. Kai wrote:

    In my circles, “bougie” usually refers to people from any oppressed group who have, to some extent or other, forsaken their communities in favor of upward mobility (the word comes from Marx’s class analysis, after all). Obviously there’s no such thing as “not acting Black” or “not acting Asian” or “not acting working-class” or whatever; but I think it’s important to recognize that in a racist and classist society, there are plenty of Black, Asian, working-class, etc kids who are taught to hate who they are, how they’re perceived, and will go to some lengths to prove to themselves and others that they are different, not like the rest, via whatever social cues they have at their disposal. So we actually have countervailing forces at play here: the pressure from the community to stay within the mold, and the pressure from larger US class society to become “one of the safe ones”, “articulate and clean”, “the talented tenth”, rewarded with honorary status in exchange for not agitating against the power structures which keep communities oppressed, not disrupting the ruling-class hustle. To me, that’s what “bougie” is all about.

    Of course, there are multiple usages and some have strayed further afield than others.

  17. Cynthia wrote:

    But what is “racially removed?” Many Hong Kong Canadians are way more “white” than they realize, to a point that you might as well create a culture called CHASP. Chinese people with a WASPy lifestyle, complete with the prep school educated children, country club membership and maybe a bit of philanthropy (which in the Hong Kong Torontonian community means Yee Hong or Mong Seoung (or however you spell it))

  18. Cynthia wrote:

    ^^^ I should add that Yee Hong and Mong Seong are centres for senior citizens of Chinese descent.

  19. Mike wrote:

    I never really saw bougie as a term about race as much as class. One reason is like the author said I never heard it used by the working to low income class to describe the upwardly mobile. Seems to be an in house term to me.

    As far as black culture (there is one) to me it adapt and changes to fit or absorb its environment to much for any one to be used as a standard on what is black. I have black american friends walk up to and say Sac Pase when they find out I am of Haitian descent. I live in Atlanta and they love Jamaican food to the point they can tell you what is not authentic.
    Bougie seems to be an insult between like minded people.

  20. dalia wrote:

    re:

    Mes Deux cents wrote:

    Hi,

    The next time someone calls you “bougie”, tell them the correct term is Bourgeoisie, then just walk away. (lol) That’s what I do.

    co-sign!

    after fighting a life of being called bougie, i embrace it. hell yes, i speak better, and have a more open mind then 90% of the black folk i know. my ex-fiancee used to refer to me as his “li’l siddity” and i had no qualms about it. if it makes others more comfortable in their own skin to try and make me more uncomfortable in mine, then lord love’em.

    from the moment i show up/step off a plane/enter a room/open my mouth, the eyes roll and the whispers start.

    why fight?

    yes, i’m bougie! and what?

    *snaps*

  21. dalia wrote:

    (sorry that should be “…*than* the black folk i know…”)

    :)

  22. Quiet wrote:

    I agree with Kai. The whole issue of authentic blackness has hurt the African-American community, and speaking as one who has been labeled an oreo (though never bougie, interestingly enough, and I do believe there are different issues in those two calls) I can certainly attest to the pain of being caught up in the narrow definitions we have sometimes allowed ourselves to buy into.

    HOWEVER, Kai hits it on the head by saying we cannot simply dismiss what is happening here as confused or jealous black folks pulling the crabs back into the box. Like it or not, there are some black folks (and Asian, Latino, etc) who have become self-loathing and try actively and with disdain to disconnect themselves from what is perceived to be “the masses.” They turn up their noses as surely as there is sun during the day. Living, against my will, in Boston, I can attest to the existence of people who will not deign to speak to you unless you have a house at Oak Bluff and grew up in Jack and Jill.
    Calling these folks bougie doesn’t help. (Maybe we should just call them snobs. Elitists. Jerks.) Nor does jumping to conclusions about folks based on how they talk, or what they read, or how they dress, etc. But we can’t pretend some black folks aren’t selling the rest down the river as fast as they possibly can.

  23. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Cynthia -

    Fascinating. That is a good question, isn’t it? What exactly constitutes racially removed? Pondering… :-)

    Rob - also fascinating. Again, echoes of similar experiences…

    Kai & Quiet -

    Cracking the nail on the head, are we? Long ass comment soon to follow about race traitors and such…

  24. M wrote:

    The next time someone calls you “bougie”, tell them the correct term is Bourgeoisie, then just walk away. (lol) That’s what I do.

    Actually, “bourgeoisie” is the referent for the people; you’d probably use “bourgeois” to describe the people…

    ANYWAY. Umm. I don’t see how calling you “bougie” is a power grab. This whole thing reads like a glorification of the class system through a race lens. To most anti-racists (though I don’t know if you consider yourself one), it’s common knowledge that all black folks aren’t the same. Yet in this piece, you’re making a heavy effort to distinguish yourself from a monolith that doesn’t really exist.

    Am I missing something crucial that makes this piece more relevant than I realize?

  25. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Hi M -

    Hmm, don’t know what you mean. I framed this article after having multiple discussions with other friends who find themselves unfairly slapped with this label. If there is a monolith I am raging against, it’s this strange (and pervasive) mindset that we can challenge each other’s authenticity without knowing their history and background.

    Class battles bother me because it feels kind of futile. And I think I tried to emphasize the ridiculousness of it all by showing how people of different classes perceive the term differently and how the people one would expect to make those comments did not do so. And from the shared stories I have heard, bougie is kind of a power grab because it is intended to be divisive. Trying to prove I am blacker than thou, when really, we are all occupying the same space.

    Now, there is a whole section I edited out because it wasn’t gelling - basically about how class is conflated with status and how people who have “markers” saying low class may not be, and people with the markers saying “high class” or “bougie” may not be, but it just didn’t work with the conversational tone of the piece. Maybe that’s where some of the confusion is.

    Can you explain a little more about he monolith I am distinguishing myself from? Who is the monolith supposed to represent?

  26. M wrote:

    The locus of calling it a power grab — it’s within a frame of seeing the people calling you and others “bougie” as less powerful than you and your friends. I don’t see the class wars you bring up as futile because of your next point — class and status are conflated, and when you add the racial dynamic of assimilation, the problems are confounded even more.

    For example, when you go through the part where you talk with your mom and the food identification, I see a lot of problems because class privilege and high status still get associated with knowledge of the “exotic” from the perspective of the transitioner and the person without that knowledge. Racialicious typically does a lot of work to unpack that dynamic of cultural fetishization, but it still called out to me here as being defended as a necessary evil.

    It really seems like a lot of work to say upwardly mobile blacks are different from the rest, but don’t want to be identified directly as such.

  27. queer hapa wrote:

    Nice essay and discussion. I like the emphasis on how the term gets played out in racial dynamics, but I’ve always thought of bougie as being a term about class and upward mobility and social anxiety. Also I’ve for sure heard the term used by and about people of various races and ethnicities, including whites.

    I’m trying to think about the times I’ve used the term myself to refer to friends–”god, she’s so bougie!!”–and often it’s about their expensive tastes and spending habits. To be honest, part of it is a reflection of my own envy and class anxiety and resentment (why don’t I have as much cultural capital as they do? why don’t I have as much disposable income? why do they keep throwing it in my face like that?). But it’s also a critique, not of people’s “inauthenticity,” but of waste and greed and inequality and yeah, capitalism. Now is that a power grab? In as much as I think power and wealth need some serious redistribution in this world, then yeah, I guess you could call it that.

  28. justin wrote:

    If its pronounced boo zhee or bew jee (?) it made it to New Zealand in the early nineties via the Ricky Lake show. Oreo was also a popular amongst eleven to twelve year olds.
    Coconut is a vicious insult for pacific islanders in NZ but there is also the term FOB to counter that.
    Taiwanese friends poke me, calling me Malaysian because my Chinese-ness comes via Singapore. They are insulting me but I’m glad they understand that much and these things signal directions for culture.

  29. Anonymous wrote:

    It’s interesting to me to hear you describe the use of this term as primarily used in black circles. I’m white and it’s a term familiar to my circles, most often as “how boug.” I’ve always seen it as commentary on consumerism mainly. I’m from a working class background and for me this term is a way to point out when a person is inordinately caught up in their pursuit of (upper) middle-class material norms. When I really consider it, perhaps it’s our way of making soft commentary, almost as a reminder of where we come from. I call it soft because in my experience its never meant to be a fierce criticism…just a light nod to more reflection about the world we live in and where we might be headed.

  30. Tami wrote:

    M,

    I can’t speak for Latoya, but…

    I think black people who use the word “bourgie” with malice do so because they view acting outside of black “norms” as a rejection of their culture–an attempt by another black person to assimilate into the “better” mainstream culture. The taunt “bourgie” is meant to put an “uppity” black person in his or her place, and take away the person’s perceived power.

    There is an undeniable element of self hate in all of this, because it assumes that mainstream cultural markers are better than black cultural markers.

  31. Vincent wrote:

    Thanks for stimulating a lively discussion. Interesting post, I am from D.C. (14th and Columbia Rd. during the riots) and grew up in Northern Va. (not so many riots) I have decent professional “chops”. So, I think I can relate, to a certain extent, with your experience.

    My response is admittedly homespun. When I hear the word “bougie”, I look inward. It was the way I was raised. My grandmother was the matriarch of our family. She was always proud of my accomplishments and my development as a human being. However, whenever I got a little too cocky, she would remind me not to “get to big for my britches” and that no matter “how smart I thought I was, I will always be her grandson”. It left me with the lesson that all my brothers and sisters are special and that I am not any more or less special than anybody else. I know that sounds simple. In my family, if the word “bougie” was used, it meant to “check yourself” and remember that you can express individuality (we were encouraged to do so) without putting yourself above others. Her words and wisdom deepened my admiration for her. My grandmother was/is part of the best of my soul.

    peace,

    v

  32. Kaywil wrote:

    I think this is what happens when race and class get mixed into the same pot. Blacks = lower class (historically) so when the Black middle class poke their heads out, even for just a little bit, they get a beating and go back into hiding. It makes those not comfortable with class separate from race feel better. Social disciplining. That’s why I have middle/upper class Black kids in my area “actin’ hard”. It buys them a get-out-of-ridicule-free pass. I’m going to have a lot of work to do with my own kids…I can see it coming already. Every time the doorbell rings, the person at the door asks us “are you the owners of the house?” and the school teachers are so “pleased” at how “well behaved” and “well spoken” our children are. The battle rages on. Ah well. C’est la vie.

  33. Fatemeh wrote:

    Great post!
    I have heard the term bougie in white circles before, and it’s often used as a class-insult thing by other people in that class, or often used as a synonym for “pretentious.” (shrug)

  34. mr guy wrote:

    Bougie.I’ve heard the word used to describe people in many different ways.People who are rich, middle class, forgot where they came from(who do you thin you are don’t you know you’re black?!!lol)think they are better than poor black people, dislike their own blackness etc etc etc.The term is annoying but what can you do?There’s always going to be people of lower class hating on the upperclass, and people of higher class hating on the lower class.It’s always been like that from my experience living in both areas all. That’s how I see this whole situation.

  35. Rachel wrote:

    This whole post is fascinating, but as someone who has lived her whole life in PG County, I’m interested to hear what you think about it as a study in racial politics. (Last I heard it was the richest black-majority county in the country.)

    Also, I can only assume the Burmese restaurant you went to is Mandalay–I just got excited about it because I used to (and sometimes still do) work there! I don’t know if you went to it when it was in College Park or when it was in Silver Spring, but the latter has its own set of interesting racial issues, especially in light of its recent development/gentrification (depending on your viewpoint).

  36. dnA wrote:

    I try to “reclaim” bougie by using it to describe myself. There’s nothing wrong with being bougie. Plus I find it an appropriate way to explain the way my class and cultural background intersect, in my experience only black people use the term “bougie”.

  37. Buttascotch wrote:

    I found what you said very interesting. I’ve only been called “bougie” one time during my college days (well at least to my face anyway) and it was because I wouldn’t shake this woman’s hand at her house party. The reason why I didn’t shake her hand is because a few minutes after being introduced, she walks up to me and just grabs my hand. She didn’t hold her hand out like people normally do when they want to shake your hand. She just grabbed my hand and my natural reaction was to pull away plus I didn’t say anything to her about it but in my mind I was thinking what in the world is she grabbing my hand for?! Later on that night this woman feeling guilty since she thought my friend had told me she said that I was bougie, ended up apologizing for what she said and tried to say she was just drunk!

    Part of me feels like she called me bougie because I’m light-skinned and she was dark-skinned plus I’ve always been a quiet person which at times have made people think I’m stuck up….which is not the case!

  38. merq wrote:

    Great post, LaToya!

    Have nothing to add to this discussion. I have a feeling everything I want to say has already been covered.

  39. CW wrote:

    i get the “bougeois” term thrown at me a lot…it’s a mechanism used to put those “in their place” who dare to step outside an imaginary box the community has created ….when black women don’t play the “sapphire” “jezebel” and/or “mammy” role..the “bougeois” label gets affixed to them…

  40. Jay wrote:

    But what is “racially removed?” Many Hong Kong Canadians are way more “white” than they realize, to a point that you might as well create a culture called CHASP. Chinese people with a WASPy lifestyle, complete with the prep school educated children, country club membership and maybe a bit of philanthropy (which in the Hong Kong Torontonian community means Yee Hong or Mong Seoung (or however you spell it))

    I don’t think having money means you’re white, or even act white. It means you have money. More to the point, these behaviours existed in Hong Kong as well (prep school children, philanthropy and country club membership especially) where white people are a minority.

    Ascribing these behaviours as “white” means that you believe only white (or white-acting) people can be rich. Which I think is damaging.

  41. Luke Pharma wrote:

    And I’ve always wondered about “Bourgie Bourgie” (preferring the Gladys Knight over the Ashford & Simpson version) (-:

    Oreo should be another discussion regarding derogatory terms in general.

    Actually Latoya, I’m curious why you’re avoiding another obvious elephant in the room that would tighten up some of the points your raising.

    Consider the loaded phrase “white trash” and its implications. Purely as nonpartisan example (not declared for anyone yet!):

    I recall a magazine article on the Clintons from a few years back (think it was Washingtonian), discussing how hostile the DC and New England elite were to the idea of the couple entering their turf, despite his governorship,their Ivy League ties, his Oxford stuff, etc.

    Despite (or maybe because of) their (1) success, (2) mobility, and (3) power Hillary would always be too working class, Bill too broken home and rednecky to be accepted by the tastemakers *and* deemed credible and relevant among those who still dwelled where they came from who would call them sellouts, calculating, inauthentic, etc. Still bugs the heck out of them, and factors into their bunker mentality.

    Interesting to note how that same set of dynamics would affect any person who’s “made it”, and how they choose to embrace success, use it as a shield or a sword relative to how their “community” views, nurtures, and supports (then claims) that success– and by extension that individual.

    Biggest Beef: Bougie masks contempt for aspiring towards self-improvement, knowledge, manners and respect towards others, civility, discpline through a veneer of class. It assumes that only people of a certain strata can/should/must appear and therefore act (or vice versa) certain ways) from obligation rather than aspiration, drive, or interest. The substance of status has been replaced by the pursuit of status itself. What a difference two generations can make…

    Separate those out and I think you’ll have what’s eating you. And tell your mom that’s not proper manners regarding your fridge!

  42. Cynthia wrote:

    [i]I don’t think having money means you’re white, or even act white. It means you have money. More to the point, these behaviours existed in Hong Kong as well (prep school children, philanthropy and country club membership especially) where white people are a minority.

    Ascribing these behaviours as “white” means that you believe only white (or white-acting) people can be rich. Which I think is damaging.[/i]

    Jay, I understand that, but the rest of the world doesn’t. The media still equate minorities with poverty. I don’t want to be categorized as “underprivileged” when I never felt that I was. I live in a country where celebrating one’s old country culture is encouraged and true assimilation/integration discouraged. People who aren’t familiar with Hong Kong culture (but at least somewhat familiar with Chinese culture) are often shocked to see brides in white.

  43. M wrote:

    Biggest Beef: Bougie masks contempt for aspiring towards self-improvement, knowledge, manners and respect towards others, civility, discpline through a veneer of class. It assumes that only people of a certain strata can/should/must appear and therefore act (or vice versa) certain ways) from obligation rather than aspiration, drive, or interest. The substance of status has been replaced by the pursuit of status itself. What a difference two generations can make…

    Luke Pharma, I like the distinction you’re making here. Truth be told, I think the term “bougie” can be considered an amalgam of many social criticisms. And through it all, I think there are people who are doing that transition to a higher class, have more knowledge, etc., and they don’t come off as bougie. I don’t think it’s an earmark of class ascension so much as a dangerous side effect, and it depends on how much capitalist/consumerist ideas factor into your notions of success.

    The way you have it phrased kinda segues into what Vincent, dnA, and Buttascotch bring up about it being a perception of personality. While I’ve heard only black people specifically use the terms “bougie” and “siddity,” there are cultural and racial equivalents across the board. I don’t think it’s so much power grabbing as it is pointing out a class dynamic that’s been around since huge wage gaps between the poor and rich. (God knows people probably thought Marie Antoinette was bougie as all get out — but that led to a different and more concrete type of power grab. :-p)

  44. annie wrote:

    Interesting discussion. I’m white, but back in my hardcore-kid days, “bougie” was used as an interchangeable term for “bourgeois.” People (of different races) used it disdainfully toward mainstream consumerist types. It always seemed like a class issue more than anything else, but then again, it sounds like that’s universal. I hadn’t heard “siddity” before. What is the etymology?

  45. Girlfriends wrote:

    Come on, people. Bougie and Oreo are two, separate and distinct accusations. Whether either one is fair, or fairly lobbed at each person they are lobbed at, is another discussion. But bougie, in the black community, is distinctly about attitude — it is elitism pure and simple. It is not a power grab, whatever that means. The character Diana Ross’s daughter plays on Girlfriends is distinctly bougie, because she is an out and out snob. The other characters, equally wealthy, educated etc etc, are not. Jack and Jill are bougie. Oak Bluffs is bougie. Debutant balls are bougie. Lawrence Otis Graham is bougie. Bougie is about exclusion. “Our Kind of People,” indeed.

    Be fair.

  46. jen* wrote:

    I second all o’ that, Girlfriends.

    I knew I wasn’t crazy. I’d never heard bougie used as an assertion of who might be “blacker”…and perhaps the common threads from those who’ve heard it used as such are more anecdotal than research….

  47. Sabrina wrote:

    Never got called “bougie” but god knows I got accused of “acting white” often enough as a child growing up in the 1970s…and simply because I spoke standard English and excelled in school. The younger generation have no way of understanding how that would’ve been considered a threat to people, black or white…but for some reason it was. To this very day I cringe when I hear people of all ages or races try to define what is “black” and what is “not black”…this is nearly 2008, why are people still trying to impose racial limitus tests on others?

  48. Luke Pharma wrote:

    M: Thank yiu very much, although I think you stated my points much better than I could. (-:

    Latoya: One last thought to help. Two films I highly recommend would be “Imitation of Life” (the 1958 version I think it is) and “Gentleman’s Agreement”. I’m not sure if you have seen either, so don’t want to spoil them by explaining what happens, but they are among the best films I know of that address what you are exploring here.

    Jay and Cynthia: You reminded me of something else. So much of this is about assumptions, how people appear and carry themselves. Ever the pattern-reading/forming creatures we are, people must know the motives, reasons, or sources behind the success of others in life, right? It’s not enough to celebrate, appreciate, or reward it, it must be scrutinized when it isn’t theirs or when it comes to close to matching what they have to keep it “in check”.

  49. Buttascotch wrote:

    annie…I’ve only heard black people say “siddity” but it means that a person thinks they’re better than you… or like being conceited.

  50. bdsista wrote:

    Siddity also is a synonym for uppity, i.e. not knowing your place and acting as if you are above your station or above others. I am from Columbia, MD, Mom is from DC and interestingly commented that my ex-boyfriend was bougie cuz he wore Farragamos and had a Rolex. Ok, I reported on his goods, but I was really proud of how well he’s done and the fact that he is finally spending his money on himself after sacrificing for so many years to achieve success. Here’s the funny thing, she doesn’t even know what Farragamos ARE! But being born during the depression, she has a real disconnect about money and salaries, etc.
    I have been called bourgie, but never Oreo. I agree that bourgie has to do with class and those threatened by your actions that are associated with middle and upper class threatening the person who doesn’t connect/understand them. I totally got the Burmese restaurant thing as I have just gotten home from spending Thanksgiving at Colonial Williamsburg with my folks and again being the ONLY Blacks at the dinner at the Lodge and Christmas Musical program, etc. My whole family is used to it by now, but my parents being teachers are very disturbed at how few Black families enjoy historical sites and events. What is ironic is now Williamsburg includes information about the roles of slaves and free blacks in most of its exhibits and reeinactments. I having gone for over 30 years am thrilled to see history being set straight, but none of us have showed up to acknowledge it. Call me bourgie, but Jack and Jill damn sure helped my kids when they were only 1 of 5 black kids in their GRADE! yes there are bourgie folks, but a lot of them are my friends and they can still come over and grease on ribs and collards. But with Riesling or Merlot.
    I think we can ill afford to live in an increasingly multicultural international world and act like its ok to just be about “the hood”. I never lived there. I have family who did, but they were proud of my parents for getting an education and becoming teachers. My parents raised me with the standard that I was to do better than they and I complied now being an attorney and a teacher!

  51. Girlfriends wrote:

    And there you have it. Bougie personified.

    Not everyone who disagrees with blatant materialism and snobbish elitism is “threatened” by the actions of those who worship such things. We simply disagree. Maybe Mom knows what Farragamos are; she’s just embarrassed that her child would think wearing them, or bragging about them, makes a person worthwhile.

  52. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Excellent comments everyone. I’m really supposed to working on stuff for next week, but I did want to check in and offer some more comments:

    Re: White trash - yeah, Luke, I left that out. Mainly because it never occurred to me. I had never thought that people outside of the black community used the term, but it is obvious by all the responses that it can mean a variety of things to different people. And I’ve learned a ton (CHASP?) so thanks to everyone who took the time to share their experience.

    I think I saw a couple comments saying “Bougie doesn’t mean XXXXX - it means XXXXX” - it looks like we had the same issue here that we did in the gentrification post a while back. People in different regions may use the word differently. So while we may be using the same word, the definitions and connotations probably vary. We can agree that it is generally not interchangeable for Oreo, right? (or can we? do we need a post talking about those kind of terms - oreo, banana, coconut, etc?)

    A lot of people are also stumbling over the phrase “power grab” so let me try to explain that a bit better. I meant power as in perceived social capital, not necessarily an actual shift in power dynamics. When I wrote the piece, I was thinking about the term bougie as applied as a kind of “drive by insult” - like the one Tami shared in comment one. Think about when someone gets called a slut at a club. That person may not have done anything to warrant that label, but she walked in and either by attitude, manner or dress, or someone projecting, they slapped that label on her. Use of the term in that way is deliberately meant to take the offending person down a peg - so that’s why I liken it to a power grab. If you’ve got a better term to describe this, let me know, because I can apply it in a lot of areas.

    It was also interesting how many people linked bougie to materialism. Whenever I heard the word, it was generally linked to either an action or an inanimate action. (I.e. - I am attracted to pretty packaging. I buy all kinds of things depending on how they are packaged. My friends tend to jokingly slap these things with the bougie label - so I have bougie water, bougie soap, and bougie lotion.) However, the materialistic aspect shouldn’t have come as a suprise. (Duh -root word, Latoya!)

    In terms of the word “siddity” I have only ever heard two people use it - one of my friends and Method Man. So I can’t shed too much more light on that (thanks Annie!)

    @ Girlfriends - Funnily enough, I only know what half the things are you labeled as bougie. Another thing I was trying to get at in the piece - the label is quickly applied…but what does it really mean? Can you please explain what Oak Bluffs and Lawrence Otis Graham are supposed to stand for?

    @Jen* - Is there a Big Book of Bougie Research that I don’t know about? If you know of one, please pass it on so I can find the info. Part of the “fun” in these kind of discussions is finding out what these terms mean to others. So for you, it means one thing, for others it means another. (Speaking of research, the only thing that may count as research for this piece is reading “The BAP Handbook” - which is intended to be satire.)

    Finally, in terms of the examples used in this piece…yes, I would have liked to use examples outside of the food to illustrate my points. They are very “cute” examples. However, the examples I have that cut to the heart of this issue would involve me revealing way too much about my life and my family. It’s kind of like that quote from the dude behind Gawker, explaining why he made fun of someone’s four year old child:

    “Look, if I was Neal Pollack, I would be mad too. But when you create a character out of your son, and you develop that character in your prose, that character is open to criticism.”

    (The example I am referring to starts on page 2, paragraph 2 of this article - http://nymag.com/news/features/39319/index1.html)

    My family is my family - not just characters to bear the brunt of snarky net commentary. So, dear readers, I do apologize but I think THRICE before posting about any kind of personal experience that involves another person. Even if they give me permission to write about them, I never know what part of a piece someone is going to want to bitch about. So, it’s all personal examples lite. If someone else wants to share more info about themselves and their lives, be my guest.

  53. gatamala wrote:

    Great job Latoya! ( I find that a dry white goes well with Cheddar biscuits).

    Kaywil: they get a beating and go back into hiding. A very accurate way of describing the phenomenon.

    an epithet says a lot more about the one who utters it, than the one who takes it.

    Some folks just don’t want people to leave them on the mental “plantation”

    @dalia & dNA…”bougie” may find itself on my living canvas someday…

    ftr: It’s FErragamo ~ how’s that for “siddity” ?

  54. bdsista wrote:

    OOooo! I am lovin the talk! No, for clarification Girlfriends, the ex had the Ferragamos, not me, I can’t afford them! Oh, but to Amen that, I will admit I have been raised bourgie because my mother is the kind that classifies loud shouting Pentacostal (or any denomination that gets loud) churches as those for uneducated country folk and “dignified” black folk should go to a quiet, Baptist church. (which to me is an oxymoron). But her highly educated daughter got saved in the south (Tuskegee) and has a penchant for old style services much to her mother’s chagrin.
    Lawrence Otis Graham wrote a book called Our Kind of People about the Black Elite initally discussing his experiences growing up in Jack and Jill. By the way, to clarify further, I did not grow up in J&J, my mother thought it was “elitist bullS**t, that created class distinctions among children that was unnecessary. I got my kids in J&J because they were so isolated in school. They made some good friends and so did I. Not everyone in “elite” groups are uppity a**holes.
    But the book IMO discusses the oft ignored existence of elite blacks and their history, social groups and current habits.
    LOOOVE the BAP Handbook, really funny and Ok also really true. As you said, supposed to be satire, but a lot of it is for real. (think they should add the spelling of Ferragamo to the quiz?)
    Sidditty is a more southern expression. Heard it a lot in Tuskgee and Atlanta.

  55. BluTopaz wrote:

    This reminds me of the New Years dinner I helped a friend prepare, and what we called our ‘bourgie collard greens’. No pork, seasoned with turkey wings, garlic and olive oil and cut into 1/4″ increments.

  56. tmj707 wrote:

    The sad part is that I first heard this term used when I went to college: an HBCU in New Orleans. Which is funny, because a lot of the Black folks at my school (Dillard) were generally considered to be just that: rich, creole and of such high social standards that they were not allowed to date or socialize with us regular black folks. But that’s what happens when you espouse ideas to ‘fight the power’. Hey, I’m from the Bay Area. We’re all happily weird there, and that’s why I never heard anyone use that term.

  57. AmiJane wrote:

    Very intersting. There are so many things to touch on when it comes to this. Now, since you KNOW your dad does not venture outside of Red Lobster to often. I think you should of been more patient with him and took the time to really explain what samosa is. Instead of just referring to it as what they usually eat at Indian restaurants. I don’t know what it is, but I can look it up. Maybe, it seemed like you were slightly flaunting your “worldliness” instead of sharing the things you have learned about that particular cusine to help him understand. Maybe, you were frustrated because his lack of knowledge about the place and how you have to explain everything. This is not to pick on you, because it doesn’t seem like either one of you were really offended. Moving on, As far as bougie is concerned, I have only heard this when a black guy refers to a black girl. I believe this stems from girls ACTING a certain way so men can percieve that they are used to a certain financial standard. In this case, black women who act bougie are women he can not afford.

    But also, I think the word Bougie is a reflection of the sentiment “You think you better than me”.
    I have noticed the same things as a lot of others on here.

    If I decide to eat healthy food and work out to maintain my weight. You can feel the undeniable silent thoughts of people thinking “Oh, who do she think she is?”
    Don’t be mad at me because YOU don’t have th fortitude, to lead a healthy lifestyle.

    Or, if you speak DESCENTLY and intermingle a variety of adjectives in your speech.
    “Don’t laugh at me and say, “Ooh, you tryna use big words!”

    And finally, just because I don’t feel the need to jump in at any and every conversational opportunity to fill dead air with witicisms of the moment, does not mean I am not a black woman.

    I really appreciated the post, it does provoke thought. The feelings about acting Black run so deep with in all of us. It helps us peel away the layers of things that are rarely sagaciously spoken about.

  58. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @ BlueTopaz - loving that!

    @ AmiJane - to clarify, my Dad goes to tons of places outside of his comfort zone. He makes a point to try things that are foreign to him - that’s why I had kind of assumed he had been to an Indian place. It was my little brother who prefers to only eat at McDonalds/Red Lobster/places with chicken fingers. I will cut him some slack though…he is eleven.

    @bdsista - fascinating. Our Kind of People indeed…is it worth a read? (Normally, I just add these kind of things to the reading list, but I am swamped reading urban planning textbooks and gentrification studies…)

    @gatamala - but does the wine go well with Cheeze-its? That is my main concern. :-) Nice quote on epithets.

  59. HaitianRoots wrote:

    Love, Love, LOVED this! Great read. I’m not sure I 100% agree, but I do think that there are people who use the word for ill-intent. Personally, the word has no racial lines. It’s an adjectve to me that I’ve used twds people irregardless of race, and places i.e. your momma’s reference to “bougie stores”. And Jen* we must have met the same bougie brotha that talked about what he had than about who he was. But most often than not, if I use it in reference to another sista or brotha, it’s not about saying they are inauthentic, but they just enjoy “the finer things” :) To me, “siddity” and “oreo” warrants a mouth shot. To me, those words hurt.

  60. michelle wrote:

    It seems as though bougie is a fluid term, adjustable and malleable, based upon the user and situation. In fact, many terms that have been in the Blcak community for a while seem to have that same mutated quality. Reading the posts, I have heard all those usages of the word bougie, plus more.

    I was in Jack and Jill and got a ton out of it…a ton! However, I do remember feeling bad about myself as a child (at times) because there were many children in Jack and Jill who came from money, whose grandparents had money, whose great-grandparents had money. And not just money, they had families that were educated and who held political offices, owned businesses, etc. And they were very fair, had light eyes, light brown hair. And yes, did I feel looked down upon in Jack and Jill, absolutely. But it paled in comparison to everything else I received. I say that to say that there is a world of Black people who look a certain way and who have “power” so to speak, and trust me, they are not worried a bit about being called bougie, siddity, stuck up or anything else. They are quite secure in who they are and what they stand for. At least from what I have observed.

  61. LBell wrote:

    Was directed to this post from Afrobella…great read, as were the comments!

    I don’t have much to add except this: I’ve never been called “bougie” (to my face, at least) nor have I ever used that term on anyone (in public or private). However, I did get called “Oreo” in my (integrated, all-girl, Catholic) high school.

    After reading these comments, I do think there’s something to be said about definitions, because where I grew up (Cleveland suburbs, 1970s/80s) all the black folks were striving for something better, so that kind of class consciousness meant we were all “bougie” to some extent. However, there was this argument (which, to my astonishment, I still see today in black middle-class circles) amongst my relatively privileged classmates about how “down” one could be…so basically you had these middle-class kids trying to be “real black” via their speech, dress, mannerisms, and other things that were perceived to be part of “real blackness.” If you weren’t doing that, you were an “Oreo.”

    Fast forward to today: I am finally learning how to be ME all the time…and that person doesn’t categorize easily. I make all kinds of folks uncomfortable because I don’t fit, and refuse to fit, into an easy stereotype. As others have stated, life’s too short and the world’s too big…and I have just as much right to enjoy a nice neat Lagavulin as anybody else. (If you haven’t heard of it, look it up. Better yet, try it. No, I don’t work for them. :) )

  62. Miss Afrique wrote:

    Checked out your site from a link on Afrobella. Some great reading!

    When I was at Howard, a classmate repeatedly called me Bougie - I didn’t know what it meant, but I was sure it was a “you’re not black enough” slur.

    Ironically, I’m from Africa. Fresh off the boat. I’m as Black as Black can be, with seriously nappy hair. So I wasn’t sure what made this individual think that he owned Blackness, Africanness, Realness, or whatever Bougie implies, more than I did. I encountered this A LOT at Howard and it made me really resentful of my experiences in an HBCU (I’ve since gone on to other (non HBCU) schools that were infinitely more welcoming of my differences and certainly embraced any deviation from the perceived norm of “being Black”.

    In Africa, I was raised well, went to good schools, got the evil eye and a tongue-lashing from mum when I decided I was cool enough to pepper my speech with American slang and I knew I was quite square when I was at Howard. Perhaps Bougie means square? as in Unhip? I’m still wondering….really….

  63. jen* wrote:

    Latoya ~ my comment was basically highlighting the fact that anecdotal evidence can give a skewed view. It’s apparent that there are different colloquial takes on the term and the definitions obviously make a difference: the difference between holding people responsible for a pattern of pretending and saying that someone is “less than” black for being themselves.

    I think a lot of people are taking exception to the definition as stated, because it disallows calling a spade a spade.

    I still like the piece, though.

  64. WTTO wrote:

    Thanks for a great thread. I have learned a lot.

    Luke Pharma and M - I am concerned with your depiction of desire for “self-improvement” as necessarily a desire for class upward-motion or upward-mobility. I think one of the pitfalls of capitalism is that we tend to think that improving means having/getting more money. I just wanted to point out that your comments could be interpreted to imply that one cannot improve oneself without reaching middle or upper-middle class.

  65. Kaonashi wrote:

    Awesome discussion! ^^

    How much of this is someone acting “bougie” and someone else reflecting their own insecurities onto you? If I see someone out wearing a gorgeous outfit with expensive shoes “Ooh, she’s bougie” is the last thing on my mind. I might think “She must have an AWESOME job to be able to afford that gear” but I don’t think anything about her CHARACTER, and unfortunately when you make comments about people being bougie, weeaboo, uppity, whatever you ARE making a character judgement, whether you like it or not.

    Regardless of what race, religion, etc you are, the sad fact remains that some people live in a world that is very narrowly defined. And anytime they see someone who “deviates” from that norm…whether it’s in terms of social-economic status, lifestyle, or whatever they feel threatened by it. They’ve already made the decision about the type of person you are without even knowing you, and it gets old as hell after a while.

    Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if people just concentrated on striving to be the best person they can be–whether that’s financial, spiritual, or knowledge-wise–rather than bitching about what the person next to them has.

  66. M wrote:

    Luke Pharma and M - I am concerned with your depiction of desire for “self-improvement” as necessarily a desire for class upward-motion or upward-mobility. I think one of the pitfalls of capitalism is that we tend to think that improving means having/getting more money. I just wanted to point out that your comments could be interpreted to imply that one cannot improve oneself without reaching middle or upper-middle class.

    WTTO, I find this peculiar because any allusions I made to this dynamic were in response to similar conclusions drawn in Latoya’s piece — not my own beliefs about money and self-improvement.

    Like here:

    My father - like many parents - wanted to make sure his children enjoyed a life and standard of living that he was not able to benefit from as a child. His desires were manifested in two of his children and we have gone on to surpass his hopes. (To be fair, my parents both raised their stations in life as well - from being impoverished teen parents to successful business owners.)

    My sister and I are exactly what my parents wanted.

    However, we are the ones who internally deal with the class fallout. Changing classes isn’t exactly an easy process. There are markers that go along with status that bear evidence to the change. Those changes serve to force a wedge between you and the “others.”

    The way this is written suggests that because one changes class, certain learned personality traits and perspectives that come with upward mobility are immutably linked and function to create chasms between people.

    Also here:

    After all, the counter to being bougie is to prove one’s own street cred by discussing their own hardscrabble beginnings or the rough areas where they are affiliated.

    I used to play this game, particularly when I was younger. Any assertions of the word “bougie” would magically vanish by reciting my father’s address.

    Here’s another implication that “self-improvement” has to be tied to this evolution, this demonstration of where you came from to justify where you are.

    Perhaps I should try to write out my thoughts somewhere else. But I do think there’s value in this piece — just, perhaps, not for the reasons Latoya and most of the commenters are granting.

  67. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Jen* - Calling a spade a spade. I like that term, but rarely use it.

    I can see what you are saying - sometimes a word is just an adjective. The definition exists to describe something. However, words change and connotations paint them. Good points made though.

    Funnily enough, after I joked about the Big Book of Bougie, I actually found one! I am reading this great book on gentrification called Black on the Block, and the author - Mary Pattillo - has another book out. The title is Black Picket Fences: Privilege and Peril among the Black Middle Class. I am looking forward to reading it after I finish black on the block.

    ****

    I am still amazed at the level of comments this post has generated.

    As an aside, I am also amazed at the people who disagree on some or all of the premises and yet say (1) they found value in the piece and (2) took the time to thoughtfully explain their issues and beliefs. I really wish I could generate these kinds of responses from everything I write!

    ****
    WTTO - Interesting point. Ghost admin has seen M’s response so….

    ****

    M -

    As you stated, the piece does link self-improvement with social mobility. However, that is because it is my own experience. Money does not make a person - but it sure makes life a lot easier. So when you grow up lacking for the basics, and you watch your parents struggle and sacrifice and scrimp and save just to get ahead, there is that feeling that you must do well. I HAVE to succeed - look at what everyone else has done for me. So, in that sense, yes, moving classes and having more money was self-improvement. Now, we are able to help the family succeed. Build collective wealth.

    Again, these things are difficult to articulate without getting too personal. I think I only hinted at the tension that creates a rift. I left it vague, because while this is my narrative the experiences of others compelled me to write this. The rift could be within the family, or within other members of your community, or even one you just created in your mind.

    It depends. Events affect people on different levels. So with me, I’m not too concerned about people who will assign me a label without knowing me. They don’t know my struggle. They don’t know who I am beholden to. They make an assumption. And as far as I am concerned, they are welcome to that assumption as it has no bearing on my reality.

    But again, I speak from my experience. When I speak to my friends about this topic, some people feel pained because their parents encouraged them to become “bougie” and then turned on them later in life, asking them why they acted that way. I had another friend who learned to be bougie all his life, due to his father’s experiences - his father, having grown up dirt-poor, would not allow anything to show signs of wear. Would not use bread that was more than two days old. So my friend wanted for nothing and felt divided from people who seemed more needy. Another friend married into old black money and realized that what she thought was bougie was just the tip of the iceberg.

    M, I am not sure what you wanted in the piece or what you see there. However, I do encourage you to write out your thoughts and feelings. Write it somewhere else, or write it up and submit it to Carmen. Post it here. Let’s keep the conversation going.

  68. Luke Pharma wrote:

    WTTO: Thank you for your comment. My statement and M’s response (not to put words in mouth!) however, is decidedly the opposite of what you portray. [Clarifying]: It is unfortunately all too true that many people can link an individual’s *act* of self-improvement to some *motive*. That *motive* gets ascribed by outsiders– who often don’t know the person (or who do know the person but not as well as they think)– automatically goes into the “upward mobility” category for many people. (Nobody’s business but your own…) Hope that helps…

  69. WTTO wrote:

    Hi M and Luke Pharma,

    Thanks for clarifying. I reread the conversation and I think I understand what you were saying better now. I appreciate that you took the time to explain. Luke - I think the distinction you made between internal motives and external perceptions really helped me to get it. M - Thanks for linking it back and showing me how all this hooked into Latoya’s original piece. It definitely helped me to make the connection. Apparently 60 comments later, I am not as good at remembering what’s going on.

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