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1. things that are hard for me to hear « Sara Speaking on 13 Nov 2007 at 8:03 pm

   […] not talking about as the case may be, is this whole Asian fetish thing. It’s come up over at Racialicious, and now it’s on Feministing, and I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before it […]

2. Noli Irritare Leones » Blog Archive » Asian fetishes, myths, and social science on 16 Nov 2007 at 10:48 am

   […] specifically on the question of whether white men fetishize Asian women, got criticized in turn by Carmen at Racialicious and by Samhita at Feministing, for itself perpetuating stereotypes about Asian women. Then Amanda […]

Comments

1. pearl wrote:

   No, it has nothing to do with the fact that Asian women are depicted stereotypically, like being subservient and quiet and other garbage like that. That and crazy in bed. And a bunch other things. Not at all. No exoticism here.

   “Sucky sucky 5 dollars,” anyone?

   I also think this Moe character is confusing “Asian women” with multiple upper-class individuals who happen to be female and Asian.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 4:15 pm ¶

2. Daomadan wrote:

   Wow, essentialist indeed.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 4:34 pm ¶

3. ciji wrote:

   as a jezebel reader, i can tell you that most of the comments are said tongue-in-cheek.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 6:25 pm ¶

4. ottermatic wrote:

   I used to read Jezebel pretty regularly but had to take it out of my feeds because of shit like that.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 6:31 pm ¶

5. Cara wrote:

   This is very disturbing. But with a lot of the other stuff you’ll find at Jezebel, it’s not incredibly surprising. It kind of just furthers the arguments of those who say that it’s not really progressive, and it’s not really feminist. Occasionally they’ll pick up a really good story that you wouldn’t otherwise see, but I don’t really think that it’s worth it.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 6:53 pm ¶

6. Seattle Slim wrote:

   Wow. I found that offensive on so many levels. I cannot believe the level of foolishness this reaches.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 7:18 pm ¶

7. Elton wrote:

   Asians have all the good stereotypes! We’re all supposed to be thin and good at math!

   Though I guess it must be pretty shitty for the Asian women who don’t conform to the shallow, submissive standard or the Asian men who are emasculated by it. Huh.

   And I guess it might be a little racist that “good stereotypes” implies “good in the eyes of our white masters.” Huh.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 7:46 pm ¶

8. Andrea wrote:

   I usually read the articles at Jezebel as though they were written in an ironic, facetious tone because, Shirley, they can’t be serious.

   I have marveled at instances of Asian fetishism I’ve been lucky (ha!) to witness. I’ve come across guys who say they will only date Asian women because they are submissive, demure and loyal. That sounds more like a pet to me.

   When I heard the mess about Asian women having tighter and “slanted” (their words, not mine) vaginae, I was aghast—like there is no way that people actually believe that and have the nerve to actually say it–is there??

   Other racial myths/misconceptions I’ve heard not strictly limited to Asians:

   Black women are unclean. This I heard from a brown-skinned guy from El Salvador who said he would never have sex with a Black (or dark skinned) woman because his perception of them–colored only by pornography, mind you–is that their dark nether regions “look dirty” and thusly they must be carrying a myriad of venereal diseases as well as having a rank odor. Right.

   Asian men have very tiny penises.

   Latina women are straight-up VIXENS. They love sex, can’t get enough of it. Bonus points if you are free, white, male and over 21.. See: The Spicy Latina Spitfire, as well as the Black Jezebel and the Madame Butterfly.

   And I guess this is sorta related…I started watching Russ Meyer’s Beneath the Valley of the Ultravixens. I’m about 30 minutes into it, but from what I’ve seen so far, The Latina and The Negress are both sex fiends who jump on a peen the moment they see one–one even goes so far as to rape a 14-yr-old boy. I haven’t seen enough of Russ Meyer’s canon to really judge his perspective. (Though, considering what I’ve seen, his work would probably make for an interesting sociological examination. Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and Faster, Pussycat! Kill, Kill! are…unique–and perhaps visionary?–in their portrayal of women of color as well as queer women, considering the time they were made)

   But getting back to the whole…fetishism thing…I think Latoya Peterson wrote an article about this a little while back, I’ll see if I can find it–anyway, as much as I hate generalizations, I have run across people who ascribe to antiquated stereotypes as a guide for picking out their partners. I’ve run across men of all races who buy into the whole Asian woman = submissive thing and make it their mission to get one, as well as a plethora of women of color who believe that catching a white man = the jackpot. They will be taken care of financially and their gene pool will be strengthened by diluting the color, making it a little bit whiter. But in my observations and personal experiences, this thinking is more the exception than the rule.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 8:21 pm ¶

9. Mireille wrote:

   I actually commented on that! I was the only one trying to break things down from a social-sciencey stand point (story of my freakin’ life) but apparently people were too caught up in their “Yea, I live in SF and everyone loves the AZNz here. It’s CRAZY.”

   I usually think comments on Jez to be somewhat enlightened and if not that at least completely hilarious. I found that post lacking on both fronts and was really very disappointed. Maybe the quality of discourse at racialicious has just spoiled discussing these kinds of things elsewhere for me.

   Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 9:25 pm ¶

10. JC wrote:

    Eh, it’s true that a lot of East Asians do not have BO, man or woman. Doesn’t mean there’s no oder, but you can’t smell BO in ANY area, including the genitals. This is the reason why it’s so hard for gaijins to find deodorants in Japan, and that the few people who do have BO would use surgical means to rid of the “fox oder”. Sure they still stink, but it’s an entirely different type of oder, more like dried sweat. Unwashed pussies still smell bad, but it won’t make you hurl.

    Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 10:18 pm ¶

11. Sara no H. wrote:

    Asian women have no body odor whatsoever, and cunnilingus is esp nice because they have no body odor.

    Funny, that’s the third or fourth time I’ve heard that now. Both of the guys I know who spent some time in Japan and the one I know who’s dated around ethnically all claim this is true in most cases.

    Makes me wonder if it has something to do with diet; I mean obviously it’s stereotypical if you think that being Asian = having no b.o., but I’ve heard too that vegetarians taste better, so it’d make sense if a culturally similar group of people with similar diets shared a trait like that.

    Hmm.

    Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 10:39 pm ¶

12. foxfire wrote:

    See, this is really frustrating. Jezebel(occasionally) posts some really interesting feminist articles, but then they post crap like this. WTF? Expecting your oppression to end while still opressing others is not OK. We should work to end all people’s oppressions, fat poor, Asian (and other POC), disabled, ect., not just white women of privalage. Cross another blog off my list. Bye, bye, Jezebel.

    Posted 09 Nov 2007 at 10:42 pm ¶

13. laura wrote:

    Ugh, and listen to this poor woman commenting:

    “I have a white boyfriend, and I’m an Asian chick. I don’t really know what else to say except I sort of felt obligated to give a shout-out. Nobody has ever said anything to me about dating a white guy and I don’t know if anybody’s said anything to him, not that any of it would matter.”

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 10:17 am ¶

14. lunanoire wrote:

    While I don’t know if it relates to nature or nurture, while studying abroad in Japan it dawned on me one hot muggy day in August that I noticed a relative absence of b.o. when taking the subway. Compared to riding the bus in DC, where a non-stinky ride is out of the ordinary, it was a nice change of pace.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 10:38 am ¶

15. Ailurophile wrote:

    Sara: Diet has a lot to do with it, IME (speaking from a het woman’s standpoint). Of course, this has nothing to do with either race or gender. By and large, vegetarians have less body odor; and while certain food ingredients such as garlic and spices often do come out in sweat and as a body odor - I’ll tell you what really makes a guy RANK and that is a fast-food diet. Wanna stink to high heaven? Live off of Mickey D’s and Taco Hell for a few months.

    The traditional Japanese diet of seafood, vegetables and grains may or may not be productive of a sweet smell, but it IS a healthy diet, and contributes to Japan’s longevity rate (Japanese women have the longest life expectancy in the world). You could do a lot worse than eat lots of sushi, rice, veggies and tea. Not because you will smell sweet, but because your heart and brain will thank you.

    As far as this piece in Jezebel is concerned: I’m waiting for the followup entitled “How To Spot and Avoid Douchenozzle, Pimple-Faced Boys With Asian Fetishes.”

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 10:52 am ¶

16. dnA wrote:

    Okay so, people know it’s not scientifically possible to have no body odor right?

    I heard asian women can fly and like, cut GUNS in half with their MINDS.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 10:57 am ¶

17. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

    lunanoire - so nobody on the Tokyo subway smells, but the folks on the DC Metro do?

    Of course, the Tokyo subway is filled with Japanese people and the DC Metro is filled with Blacks.

    I hate to be accusatory, but are you trying to say what I THINK you’re trying to say?

    Especially in light of the common racist stereotypes about Black people supposedly smelling bad?

    In any case, when I was in my early 20’s, I spent a lot of time around Asian Americans.

    My first on the books job was in the Pathmark supermarket in Chinatown, where, of course, many of my coworkers and customers were Chinese.

    My second on the books job was at the Bakers Pride pizza oven factory in New Rochelle, NY. About half of my coworkers were Vietnamese immigrants, with a sizable number of Cambodians too. I worked with those guys, I used to get a ride back to Manhattan with one of those guys, and I ended up being friends with another one of those guys.

    And, in my experience, they smelled just about the same as anybody else.

    Sorry, I really don’t buy the racial body odor thing!

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 11:36 am ¶

18. Anna wrote:

    I got the impression that “How To Spot and Avoid Douchenozzle, Pimple-Faced Boys With Asian Fetishes.” was the point of the post on Jezebel. I don’t think the original writer or most of the commenters support or believe any of the stereotypes. They could have phrased their disgust with the men telling these stories in a less sarcastic fashion for better clarity, I suppose.
    You’re very naive if don’t believe many men(esp. white) are still believing these sexual myths and pursuing relationships based on them. Or more likely repeating them to women of their own race or culture to make them feel like crap.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 12:48 pm ¶

19. Elton wrote:

    As if y’all are such experts on smell.

    Describe to me one smell. Any smell.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 2:20 pm ¶

20. Michelle wrote:

    originally posted by Andrea- “Black women are unclean. This I heard from a brown-skinned guy from El Salvador who said he would never have sex with a Black (or dark skinned) woman because his perception of them–colored only by pornography, mind you–is that their dark nether regions “look dirty” and thusly they must be carrying a myriad of venereal diseases as well as having a rank odor. Right.”

    wow that has got to be the most vile comment I’ve ever heard.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 2:31 pm ¶

21. merl wrote:

    I’m not convinced that the body odor thing is completely wrong. My boyfriend is Chinese and never wears deodorant and has no body odor as long as he showers semi-regularly (and the boy showers like once a week and still doesn’t smell much unless I’m right in his armpit amazingly enough). Me, on the other hand, I have to apply deodorant right out of the shower or I can smell myself. Obviously that’s anecdotal, but a google of “apocrine sweat glands” (which cause sweat odor) and “ethnicities” does turn up a lot of results. I can’t personally factually verify any of this but I’ve heard it in several places.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 4:09 pm ¶

22. Elton wrote:

    Dear merl,

    So you like a Chinese guy who has lazy personal hygiene habits? Do you have a cute sister? I ask not for myself, but, um, a friend of mine.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 4:42 pm ¶

23. Lee wrote:

    Hmmm, I have heard this stereotype and more before, and I am surprised that some people are so quick to believe it (especially the vagina thing, I honestly just about lost it when I heard someone say it to my face). As much as diet could play a part in this, I am suprised that no one has bothered to mention that at least in Japan (I’ve traveled there a bit as well as throughout Southeast Asia) it was expected that one would shower/soak in a bath just about everyday or night. Especially with the summer humidity, I know that was exactly what I wanted to do at the end of the day. So instead of searching for a biological reason, there are other cultural/enviornmental factors to consider…then again, it is silly to say that one group “smells, dances, is smarter etc” than another group based just on race…

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 5:54 pm ¶

24. Lee wrote:

    Wasn’t there something on Oprah not too long ago about sweat glands and how asians don’t sweat and how blacks are supposedly smellier?

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 6:08 pm ¶

25. fgs_sfdg wrote:

    “Wasn’t there something on Oprah not too long ago about sweat glands and how asians don’t sweat and how blacks are supposedly smellier?”

    I think that was the same episode in which she invited an “expert” to validate the myth of black s having bigger dicks than whites and whites having bigger dicks than Asians.

    Posted 10 Nov 2007 at 9:14 pm ¶

26. Gouw wrote:

    “Yes sweetie, it’s true. Asian pussies don’t smell. They also have a horizontal slit instead of vertical.”

    AHHAHHAHAHHHAAHHHAHHHHHAHHAHHHAAA

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 1:06 am ¶

27. Gouw wrote:

    That was fucking funny because some white kid asked my little sister that the other day (she’s 10)

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 1:07 am ¶

28. Yar0 wrote:

    ha, someone needs to inform Oprah that if we don’t sweat we end up dead. It’s the lack (reduced number) of apocrine glands that cause the reek that deodorant companies have convinced us is worse than being stricken with leprosy. We Asians still have a smell but it’s very mild. I used to think I had body oder until I smelled some REAL body odor in gym class, no offense to the non-Asians but you are definitely more odorous when you perspire. While diet may have some link to body odor, it really only concerns those who have the glands to produce a variable change in odor. My relatively unhealthy American diet hasn’t affected the intensity of my body odor nor has living in Korea and eating plenty of garlic and spiced kimchi contributed to strong body odor (at least not odor that naturally emanates from my body). Thus finding deodorants in Korea and Japan is difficult for expats, despite the blandness of Japanese cuisine compared to Korean yet combined with their shared indulgencing of Lotteria. Let’s try and relax and not manufacture this into a racial crisis. Any claim that blacks and whites smell more than Asians aren’t issued as a pejorative, unless you want to accuse nature of some racial bias. While I tend to view body odor as relatively benign- judging it on intensity vs subjectively applying a good/evil moral indignation, I think we can all admit that some smells have an intensity that pushes our opinion of it from the realm of the neutral term odorous to the negatively odious. But if you’re really issuing your racist ideology on the foundation of body odor, then your life as a racist has hit an all time low. What I did find amusing/horrifying was the disjointed opinion that a lack of body odor is connected to a lack of vaginal odor. Whether you have an abundance or lack of sweat glands that produce body oder, it really isn’t linked to the natural aroma of a woman’s vagina as the smell itself isn’t associated purely with perspiration. Adults who are clueless about this rather elementary point have no business having sex and threatening the quality of our already mediocre species. So if some dude wants to make the claim that cunnilingus was more enjoyable because of a lack of vag odor, you might suggest he keep the lights on next time. It might not have been a woman. Just my guess. *smirk*

    Oh, and Elton… the smell of hydrogen sulfide, otherwise known as the smell of unwashed ass…

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 2:41 am ¶

29. Animelee/Andrew wrote:

    Hey. Resident pre-med student here…

    Just for comparison’s sake, I’m half Guyanese/half Sri Lankan, and my two friends are Indian (both parents) and Chinese (both parents).

    We do everything together. Study on weekends. Workout at the gym at least five days a week. Hang at the mall. Play Wii at my house. You name the average 21-year-old guy activity, and we do it.

    Anyways, based on personal experience, I’m the smelliest one after a workout, or a day out at the mall. We’ll do the same activities, and I’ll end up being the worst smelling one. My Indian friend never smells when (at least after 12+ hours), and my Chinese friend does smell, but not after working out for a while longer than I have.

    Maybe it’s because I’m 6′4″ and they’re 5′4″ and 5′8″? More body area = more apocrine sweat glands? I dunno. I should ask my professors…

    And about the vegetarian thing — both of my friends are omnivores, but I’m a vegetarian. I was actually a borderline carnivore until one day last June when my 13-year-old brother and I saved a baby songbird after hours of agonizing over if it’d live or not. Long story short, I became a strict vegetarian “cold turkey” the next day, but my brother is still an omnivore. I have no qualms about it, as Homo sapiens sapiens’ ancestors evolved their big brains from eating meat, especially bone marrow.

    I digress, but anyways, even after my vegetarian conversion, I am still the smelliest one after a workout. But I don’t smell NEARLY as bad as I did back in June. So a mainly vegetarian diet does help.

    Did I mention that my Chinese friend is also borderline carnivore? There’s meat in every single one of his meals, especially red meat. My Indian friend is more of an omnivore, and the meat he eats tends to be, for the most part, lean white meat.

    There is some genetics behind it, but to say all East Asians produce absolutely no body odor is outrageous.

    Yes, it is true that in general, East Asians produce less odor than the rest of the human populations of the world. Odor comes from the bacteria in sweat. Sweat itself is odorless for the most part.

    The reason why East Asians, on average, smell less when compared to the rest of the world’s populations is that there’s a mutation that’s quite common in East Asia (and in Native Americans), and somewhat common in South and Southeast Asia, that causes those with the mutation to produce dryer, grey-coloured ear wax, as well as less overall apocrine sweat glands than the rest of the world’s populations. Some geneticists say this is because of the colder climates that people in that part of the world had to live in around 25,000-years-ago or so.

    Less apocrine sweat glands = less bacteria production, pretty much. These glands are mostly located in the armpits and in the genital area. In the ear, they’re responsible for wax.

    Biologically, race absolutely does not exist in humans, but like minute differences in hair texture, hair colour, eye colour, facial features, and skin tone, ear wax texture and overall apocrine sweat glands, there are small differences in populations.

    But that’s not to say EVERYONE in a certain population will have a certain triat. Just the majority. And we all know about clines and the gradual spread of traits, and that they’re not just isolated to a specific “race”, etc.

    East Asians sweat just as much as the rest of us, it’s just that the majority have less apocrine sweat glands.

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 6:49 am ¶

30. egypt4 wrote:

    Well, if anyone is wondering, it does smell on the women’s car on the metro in Cairo. I figured, though, it was because the women were wearing so many layers they were sweating heavily.

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 8:43 am ¶

31. TheLostGirl wrote:

    I agree with No.3 I read Jezebel and this is totally sarcastic!

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 9:00 am ¶

32. Salina wrote:

    It’s also very funny how many Asian men often complain about the side effects of this fetish, noting how mainstream media has traditionally portrayed Asian women as attractive and intelligent while the opposite goes for Asian men.

    And writing as a med student, I can’t help but add a clinical tidbit to the whole body odor issue:

    Genes DO play a role in body odor. There is a rare genetic disease called trimethylaminuria, where sufferers smell like rotting fish as a result of biochemical defects. Not the best thing anyone can live with.

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 3:45 pm ¶

33. TierListE wrote:

    If it makes anyone feel better my completely black self has very little body odor. I bathe regularly for my own mental health. I’ve been in situations were I was very embarrassed to be around others (exercised/invertedly skipped a bath etc) and in the end of all things I didn’t have an intense smell (trust me with the ‘friends’ I have I’d know).

    Now that I think about it no one in my family smells that bad ever. It’s kinda eerie. . . our socks/shoes/dirty laundry don’t smell or anything. Hm.

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 9:37 pm ¶

34. Lisa wrote:

    Sad, but hilarious. I am convinced that the people who think these things have never met a “real, live” Asian - or if they did they just saw what they want to see. Or else they have the annoying Asian girlfriend who totally plays up the stereotypes in order to manipulate her (probaby older, richer, skeevy and white) boyfriend.

    I’ve had American friends who visited me in China, and declare that people in China “don’t look Chinese”! Because they have so many preconceptions of what Chinese “looks like”. Sigh.

    At my gym locker room, I see hundreds of naked Chinese women a day, all ages and shapes, and when I compare such stereotypes to the reality, it is…just funny. I can imagine some deluded old white guy going on about how Asian women are all skinny and submissive, yet his wife is obese and domineering - but because he so believes the myths, he remains convinced she’s a lithe little lotus!

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 10:38 pm ¶

35. michelle wrote:

    I am stinky. I hate being stinky. My mom is not stinky. But I am stinky. I am a stinky, stinky non-Asian girl. Woe is me….

    Seriously….from a purely scientific level….if that is even remotely true…do we think that the rise in breast cancer around the world has anything to do with the rise of the use of anti-persperants(sp?) around the world…and maybe it is not coincidence that Japanese women suffer from breast cancer at lower rates that the rest of the world because they don’t use harsh deodorants.

    I only even say that because I am a horribly stinky girl (but my vag is always nice and fresh, seriously…just saying) and I hate being stinky. I have tried everything and short of showering 8 times a day, there is nothing I can do but slather on potentially carcinogenic deodorant. I am having a serious crisis about what I should do for my long term health. But, socially, I don’t want to be laughed at for the rest of my life!

    Also, I have terrible ear wax, too. Just awful. It actually plugged up my ear once. Making me a partially deaf, stinky, non-Asian girl. Guess I will never find a man.

    Posted 11 Nov 2007 at 11:14 pm ¶

36. Katie wrote:

    Whether Asians/Asian-Americans smell or not is not the POINT, in my opinion.

    And you know what? I’m tired of justifications for racism that all read along the same lines as “it was trying to be funny/ironic/sarcastic.”

    I keep thinking about the argument I’ve heard against the stark division of male and female characteristics, whatever those are - that there’s more difference AMONG than BETWEEN.

    (If I was skilled all these capitalized words would be in italics.)

    Posted 12 Nov 2007 at 10:03 am ¶

37. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

    It just amazes me how quickly supposedly progressive folks revert to racialist thinking.

    Rather than assuming that body odor differences are based on differences between individuals (some people sweat more than others ect) or differences in a community’s bathing customs, or how warm or cold an area is, people right away think that certain whole races smell differently.

    Of course, this racialist thinking doesn’t occur in a vacuum - just yesterday, the New York Times had an article that said that 99% of human DNA is identical across our species - and then the rest of the article focused on the supposedly huge genetic differences between the races!!!

    With that kind of pseudoscientific racism coming down from “The Newspaper Of Record” it’s not suprising that it tricled down here to Racialicious!

    Posted 12 Nov 2007 at 10:49 am ¶

38. Katie wrote:

    Hear hear! This shouldn’t be a sounding board for theorizing about purported racial differences!

    Posted 12 Nov 2007 at 2:57 pm ¶

39. Psyche Dea wrote:

    I just thought that I’d throw my two cents in as a Cultural Psychology major… The article, whether being facetious or not, is perpetuating stereotypes. I think that this is the important point; arguing over whether or not the article is serious isn’t relevant as people with different levels of knowledge will read it. If you listen to AtR, the latest episode (87) deals with this topic: representation in media. While we know that this is ridiculous, media is the only way that some people learn about other ethnic groups. Knowing this, would it not be better to write a criticism that is clearly that rather than a pseudo-skit?

    On my experience with people and smells: I’m a bit hesitant to offer the genetic explanation without qualifying it. Yes, it is fact that genes affect your scent. However, to judge a person’s scent as acrid or pleasant is completely unobjective; this is a cultural judgment. To say that Asian women do not smell is to admit that you’ve no familiarity with them in an up-close-and-personal environment. That is to say, everyone has a scent. The longer you spend with a person the better you will be at identifying and recognizing their scent. Psychologically, it is believed that smell is closely tied to memory. If Asian women have no scent then they will have a very hard time being remembered. About vaginas, if they lacked a scent there then men would not likely desire to have sex with them. That scent is created by pheromones; for those of you who are unaware, pheromones trigger behavior in individuals of the same species.

    About the article itself: I find it interesting that this article praises Asian American women for (supposedly) telling you openly that your skin is bad while such forwardness and open honesty is looked down upon when it comes from Latinas and Black women; it is no longer admired, but rather called tactlessness and sassiness. Yay for double standards!

    Posted 12 Nov 2007 at 7:22 pm ¶

40. luckyfatima wrote:

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Everyone has been sidetracked by the same covertly racist thinking that was going on at those Jezebel post comments! I can’t believe that rather than dismissing this “Asians don’t smell” thing as racism (positive stereotype) so many of the commenters here are going on about having 3 Chinese best friends who didn’t smell and they know this cuz they used to run track together or some other such thing. What consitutes “smelly” is subjective, and surely ppl of all different backgrounds have a lot of variation in terms of smelly versus no B.O. To think otherwise would be racist and also unscientific. The point of that problematic post has totally been missed.

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 4:05 am ¶

41. luckyfatima wrote:

    “Well, if anyone is wondering, it does smell on the women’s car on the metro in Cairo. I figured, though, it was because the women were wearing so many layers they were sweating heavily.”

    egypt4 are you trying to say you think covered women smell bad? Maybe it’s just your upper lip!

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 4:12 am ¶

42. gatamala wrote:

    “ear wax”…most of these comments

    Incredible.

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 11:02 am ¶

43. Yolanda Carrington wrote:

    Gatamala, Greg, Fatima—I second everything y’all are saying. But sadly, I’m not at all surprised by this turn. Bloody eugenics, man.

    Jesus, we have a long way to go.

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 12:00 pm ¶

44. Daomadan wrote:

    Gatamala, Gregory , Fatima: Well said.

    Michelle: You might want to look more closely about what you just said about the link between breast cancer and deodorant wearing.

    “Seriously….from a purely scientific level….if that is even remotely true…do we think that the rise in breast cancer around the world has anything to do with the rise of the use of anti-persperants(sp?) around the world…and maybe it is not coincidence that Japanese women suffer from breast cancer at lower rates that the rest of the world because they don’t use harsh deodorants.”

    It has never been determined that there is any link between breast cancer and deodorant. If I get breast cancer, it’s going to be because my mother and her mother were both diagnosed with it, not because I wear Secret. Check this out:
    http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/antiperspirant.asp

    Also, I don’t see the connection you’re trying to make about body odor, race, deodorant, and breast cancer.

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 2:47 pm ¶

45. Fiqah wrote:

    Two words: new low. Just DAMN. (I guess that’s four.)

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 3:34 pm ¶

46. cville wrote:

    wait, how is this dialogue is better than the comments on jezebel.com?

    two “positive” stereotypes are being rehashed on both sites…
    is it not the exact same thing to say that:
    a) all asians have good skin
    b) all asians don’t smell

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 7:36 pm ¶

47. JNOV wrote:

    Sorry, all. I sure didn’t mean to offend anyone or perpetuate a stereotype when I posted what those jackasses told me about the whole BO thing. I’m sorry.

    Posted 13 Nov 2007 at 8:38 pm ¶

48. Cynthia wrote:

    You do realize that the Asian stereotype isn’t too different from that of a southern belle, right? Southern belles are either fragile magnolias or feisty (think Scarlett O’Hara). Asian women are often portrayed as geishas (similar to the fragile magolia stereotype) or dragon ladies (feisty)

    Posted 14 Nov 2007 at 11:10 am ¶

49. Michelle wrote:

    I wasn’t trying to make a connection between body odor, race, deodorant and breast cancer.

    There are many people who believe that the harsh chemicals in deodorant can contribute to breast cancer. There are also many people who believe that the high levels of mercury in vaccines contribute to autism in young children. There are people who debate the issue on both sides.

    I brought it up because I thought that it was important to talk about. The other posters have pretty much agreed that in Japan, it is hard to find the deodorants that are common in Western countries. Given the lower incidences of breast cancer in Japan, it is not out of the realm of possibility that deodorant could play a part in the whole equation.

    JNOV, I don’t think that you should apologize. What you posted was right in line with this website and the types of things that we discuss. It is clear that it has brought up many different issues that people have. I think the discussion is very important.

    Posted 14 Nov 2007 at 3:37 pm ¶

50. Animelee/Andrew wrote:

    Sorry guys, when I mentioned ear wax density being part of the same gene as apocrine sweat glands and such, I was just reiterating what I was taught at university. That’s why I kept repeating that race is not a biological concept in modern humans, because I wanted to make sure no one thought I was saying so.

    I didn’t mean to be part of turning this comment section into a “well, do Asians really smell?” discussion, rather than picking apart the idiotic comments on that Jezebel blog post and wondering why people believe so many silly things.

    Again, sorry. Please understand that as a comic/video game/TV/science nerd, I’m not good with words. Even at my age.

    Posted 15 Nov 2007 at 6:22 am ¶

51. Animelee/Andrew wrote:

    *Sorry, I meant, biological reality in modern humans. Race is a [sad] social construct, and not a scientific reality.

    Posted 15 Nov 2007 at 6:23 am ¶

52. Michelle wrote:

    FYI Andrew, I got the point. I thought you made it well. I think you were very good with your words.

    Posted 16 Nov 2007 at 7:16 pm ¶

53. Jay wrote:

    Hm, one more thing: I got the sense that the Jezebel comments leaned towards the white men = the norm for a partner even as they talked about different races of women. And that disturbs me very much, because it happens a lot of the time elsewhere as well.

    Posted 17 Nov 2007 at 3:34 am ¶

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