4th generation racist: Can you be anti-racist if you’re anti-white?

by Racialicious special correspondent Latoya Peterson

Disclaimer: The thoughts and ideas presented in this very long post do not reflect the thoughts or feelings of the blog owner, or any of the blog affiliates. The piece chronicles my journey from being anti-white, to grudging tolerance, to what I am working toward now - full acceptance of all people, regardless of race. The thoughts below are not necessarily what I believe now - but they are all beliefs I have held at some time or another.

If you are already threatened by any perceived anti-white sentiments on this site, you may want to stop reading now. However, if you want to explore issues that some PoCs have with white people (as more than a few of my sentiments are shared) and why it is important to acknowledge and overcome these ideas, read on. I’ll be checking in throughout the day to respond to questions and comments, as this is such a provocative topic. — LP

How do racists think?

Where do their racist beliefs come from? How do they continue to justify their beliefs in our increasingly multi-culti society?

For me, finding the answers to these questions are easy.

All I have to do is look inside of myself.

The reason I am involved with racial activism today, the motivation behind wanting to build bridges and understanding between different groups of people, the reason I found Racialicious in the first place all stems from one thing: my intrinsic bias against white people.

The bias I acquired - and the racist behavior I engaged in due to that bias - was fostered in two ways.

First, there was anti-white sentiment reinforced by my family, who had experienced all kinds of problems interacting with white society. Starting with my great-grandmother claiming African-American heritage in lieu of her actual Native American heritage (effectively choosing a life marred with prejudice over possible extermination) and ending with my mother’s instructions on how to navigate a world that is hostile to people of color, my family holds a deep mistrust against white people.

Second, there is the reinforcement by my community. Many people of color harbor some sort of bias or issue with white people. It could be subtle comments about differences or insulation within one’s own community or outright hatred - the undercurrent of bias exists, and is actively reinforced by the PoC community.

My understanding of race in America came to me through lessons. The lessons that were taught to me, all by well meaning people, were attempts to shield me from internalizing hatred for the self. I learned at a very early age to question all things taught to me by white establishments - to watch what I learned in school, because they would tell me that Columbus was a hero, that the US was infallible, and that the only Negro worth knowing was Martin Luther King, Jr.

Here’s an example of one such lesson:

White people have no history. They have spent their time on earth consumed with hatred and anger, releasing their hatred on the more civilized people of color, destroying empires and technological insights with their greed. They are inherently cruel and destructive.

Does that sound strange? Ridiculous even? How can a person reasonably claim that white people have no history, that an entire race of people are inherently cruel and destructive? It just doesn’t make logical sense!

And yet, society perpetuates the same ideas. Society teaches that people of color have no history outside of slavery, or white dominance. If there were historic accomplishments made by people of color, they are not important enough to note in history books.

Think about your education.

How much do you know - that you learned in primary and secondary school - about the history of other nations? How much time did you focus on European history and American history? How did your curriculum treat African, Arabic, and Asian (including South East Asian) history? Did you get one year out of twelve devoted to learning about other nations? (I did - it was a course called Modern World History.)

Many Americans are unaware that our history is told from a skewed perspective. People of color only exist in the context of white people - slavery, the Opium Wars, the Alamo, the building of the Panama Canal…major history lessons are learned with white people at the forefront. With that type of world view, are we really surprised when people hold on to erroneous ideas like Blacks benefited from slavery?

Like a fencer, I learned to evaluate words and situations, to perceive threats, and then parry and thrust damaging white messages back at their senders. However, I soon discovered there is very little tolerance for race based assertions -negative or positive - in our world. We would rather pretend race does not exist, save for a few cute cultural celebrations. I would go to my predominantly white school - a situation which changed as I got older - and hear the buzzwords. Diversity. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Active racial discourse is discouraged. You are admonished to keep any thoughts that could possibly be seen as divisive to yourself. So, you smile on and the thoughts still fester. You interact with your white coworkers, hear ideas, thoughts, and perceptions that conflict with your experience -but you say nothing. It is not your place. I am sure white people are doing the same thing - withholding the natural thoughts and questions that arise, and allowing biases and preconceptions to take up residence in your mind.

Eventually, thoughts turn into opinions. You listen to their perspectives, so very different from your own, and do not participate. You make friends, hang out after school, break bread, have sleepovers, get invited to bar mitzvahs - all the while realizing that there is a gulf that exists between your world and theirs.

For a while, I indulged all of my racist thoughts and ways of thinking. My best friend was white, but I did not trust her on a certain level. We shared everything - everything but what was important. We talked about school and friendships and assignments, but never did we discuss the OJ trial - which was a topic of discussion in seventh grade. We all knew where the quiet lines were drawn. I never told her about my family, and never discussed race or class. In high school, I started hanging out with other alternative black kids - my white friends began to fade into the background. One by one, I lost touch with them. A comment about Affirmative Action brought one friendship up short. Another friend moved abroad and fell in love with Germany - this, coupled with her growing Republican identity also created a rift in our communication.

Somewhere along the line, my feelings toward white people had solidified into outright avoidance. Their whiteness alienated me, because I could not see past it. Even when discussing ideas and concepts with my colleagues, there were lines I could not cross, conversations I did not want to venture into.

Exploring race with white people is quite often an exercise in futility. As most people do, we understand the world by forming a perspective from our experiences. It can be difficult to understand the weight of something that you have never personally experienced.

I stopped discussing race in high school, because I was disgusted at the shallow, parroted perspectives that were served up repeatedly as if they were unique thoughts.

I continued to stay away from those conversations in college, primarily because my interactions with white people had functionally ended. Outside of work, I no longer inhabited those kinds of social circles. My world was mixed and diverse, but lacking in white people. I had (and continued to have) friends from around the globe, of all experiences and languages and hues. But white people are missing.

Occasionally, I would become friendly with white people. Maybe on the job, maybe at a film club meeting, maybe someone I see everyday checking the mail.

Eventually, someone might broach the topic of race. (Normally, after checking out my site and looking at some of the blogs I write for, including this one.) Eventually, they would offer their perceptions on race in America:

“I think we need to stop looking at what divides us, and think about what unites us.”

A nice sentiment on its face, but it is also a highly effective method of shutting down the discussion of real issues. [Side note: can someone please tell the community of Jena to unite to get those kids out of jail?]

“People need to just realize that we’re an evolutionary blip on the radar screen. All of this black vs. white stuff is bullshit, and when we’re wiped out, it will be replaced by something else.”

One of my coworkers said this to me post-Imus debacle. Ironically, he made another comment while he was exploring moving down South. Visiting a prospective neighborhood in South Carolina, he was taken aback at the mistrust he encountered from the African-Americans in that community.

“They are looking at me like I did something wrong! I didn’t turn the hoses on anyone! I understand bad things happen, but we’re never going to get anywhere if people keep holding on to the past.”

Hey, like you said, it’s just a blip in society’s evolution. Brush it off.

Or one of my favorites:

“I think people (of color) need to stop trying to separate themselves so much from white society. You need to realize that we need to work together to get things done - you won’t get much accomplished without us.”

I almost had a Malcolm X moment.* I had to step back from that conversation, and refrain from some kind of comment about white hubris.

As you can see, my attempts to foster a dialogue about race with non-PoCs has been a less than satisfying experience.

So why did I start to challenge my racist beliefs?

To be honest, I don’t know.

Refuting racist beliefs doesn’t really have any major benefits in society.

You don’t get a cookie.

You don’t get a gold star for good work.

You don’t even get your OJ prize.

What you do get is people treating you differently for not laughing at their racist jokes. You get to chastise yourself endlessly throughout the course of the day, trying to self-correct all the little racist thoughts that pop into your mind.

You get to have interactions that COMPLETELY JUSTIFY your racist thoughts and have to fight off those thoughts anyway.

It’s a lot of work, trying to be less racist, trying to eradicate racism from yourself.

When I discovered Racialicious, I was at my most alienated. I was stuck on business in some depressed former mill town, over in the heartland of white America, with no other minorities in sight. That’s when I first started listening to the podcast.

I was elated! Intelligent conversations about race, from different perspectives! And here was the best part - it was created by people of color. I could learn about issues in Asian America, Latin America, Arab America, I could hear about issues abroad, and communicate with other PoCs sharing their perspectives.

And yet - white people were here too. In the PoC space. I chafed. Then I decided to ignore it. Then I decided I couldn’t ignore it because if people are here to learn about different perspectives, they should be allowed to. Then I wanted to ignore it, as it became clear that some white people on Racialicious want to inject their white viewpoint into the discussions, with no heed for understanding the points and issues raised.

So I was conflicted.

But as I continued reading, learning, growing - and eventually contributing my words and ideas to Racialicious - the growing irony of what I was doing was staring me in the face.

It’s real hard to be an anti-racist activist if you’re anti-white.

Post-adolescence, I had let go of a lot of my anger toward white people. But it was not until recently that I began to actively challenge my perceptions of white people. To work toward overcoming all the internalized prejudice I held. One day, I hope to be able to look at a group of white people and see people - not just run anthropological commentary in my head.

I made a conscious decision to work to overcome these racist perspectives. To listen to and try to understand where white people are coming from. To share experiences, rather than just talk at each other.

There may not be much of an incentive in our society to stop being racist.

But I suppose I prefer that to the alternative.

After all, who wants to be the kind of asshole that judges others on the color of their skin, rather than the content of their character?

*For those interested, what came to mind was something similar to this quote:

It is not a case of our people . . . wanting either separation or integration.The use of these words actually clouds the real picture. The 22 million Afro-Americans don’t seek either separation or integration. They seek recognition and respect as human beings.
—Malcolm X, “Kup’s Show”, Channel 7, TV, Chicago, aired 23 May 1964, FBI, MMI 100-41040

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. It’s a White, White, White World « Reading While Black on 31 Aug 2007 at 5:25 pm

    […] post at Racialicious goes hand in hand with the subject of this […]

  2. Bigot-Proof Vest: Are You Wearing Yours? at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 13 Sep 2007 at 7:49 am

    […] I noticed in many of the responses to Latoya’s post “4th Generation Racist: Can You Be Anti-Racist If You’re Anti-White?” , a few comment posters focused more on the subcategory of racism listed as #2, mixed with a little […]

  3. On Facing Your Bias, Owning Your Prejudice, and Allies - Part 1 at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 29 Apr 2008 at 8:37 am

    […] a person who devotes quite a bit of time to fighting her own prejudices, this month gave me a whole lot to think […]

Comments

  1. Wendi Muse wrote:

    this piece could easily have become like one of those older articles featured here about white women expressing their growing hatred for black and latino men…

    except a huge difference is that their racism is continuing to grow unchecked as they fail to challenge themselves to think beyond the stereotypes they have formed. though your piece is clearly from a black american perspective, which some close-minded people may find alienating, i think that it provides an important lesson to all of us when it comes to dealing with internal struggles of prejudice and how to overcome them.

    thanks for being so open about your experience. i hope that the readers gain a lot from this.

  2. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    Great post, Latoya. This is such a taboo topic among anti-racist people. I’ve been wanting to discuss this on Addicted to Race for a long time now.

    Once you start learning more about racism, and about the history of racism, it’s very difficult to not simply associate white people in general with racism. And thereby develop anti-white sentiments.

    It’s important to check these feelings because anti-white sentiments are racism as well.

  3. Tiffany in Houston wrote:

    This post was very powerful. This could be me. I have NO white friends, and never had. I still harbor mistrust of white folks based on some the same experiences you have had. My world outside of work is totally black. I went to a black college, pledged a black sorority, and grew up in a black neighorhood. I live in Texas and here and other areas of the South, that’s not so hard to do in terms of having a majority black experience.

    That’s why I am here at Racialious..I need to expand my WORLD view.

    I look forward to reading other responses.

  4. atlasien wrote:

    I believe bitterness holds people back. I also believe it’s possible to have a healthy anger at the social construct of “whiteness” without holding unhealthy anger towards random individual human beings who happen to be white.

    Your story reminds me of something a Latina woman confessed to me in college. She said she had so much anger as a teenager, because of racist abuse, that she used to go to nightclubs, pick fights with white girls and beat them up. She said she felt ashamed and wished she could apologize… but now she was in a much healthier place, emotionally.

  5. mireille wrote:

    Thank you Latoya for your candid introspection.
    It’s true, being a legitimate anti-racist activist seems to reap no rewards in the real world. I am indebted to this blog for giving me a place to openly discuss topics of race and ethnicity with an intellectual rigor I have never found anywhere else.
    I find myself having to check my anti white biases increasingly often. It might sound funny, but some of my favorite people are white men-My father, my boyfriend, all of my professors, many of my best friends. And yet as I become more resolved and informed on racial issues, I find myself becoming frustrated with them. My boyfriend, a regular reader of racialicious, is reluctant to join in discussion here because he doesn’t know if as a white man his option will be valued or relevant. My father seems intellectually stagnant on racial issues and takes his privilege for granted. Many of my white friends make kitchy, racist jokes because “we’ve moved past that, haven’t we?”. I use to laugh…But I can’t anymore.

    I really don’t know what I’d do without this blog. I try not to let my quiet hero worship of you, Carmen and Wendi show but you all really do inspire me, the lowly community college student. Thank you again for being so candid.

  6. Kara in NYC wrote:

    Wow,this post really hit home. I was mistreated and alienated while growing up in a predominately white neighborhood and it took me a long time to get over all the pain, hurt and bitterness. Shoot, I guess I am still getting over it.

  7. drydock wrote:

    Latoya– I enjoyed this piece a lot. Thanks for sharing.

  8. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    Here’s a question for all of you. Why do you think the issue of anti-white racism is so little discussed in anti-racist circles?

    Is it that none of us want to admit we have these feelings? Or that we’re afraid of being labeled as hypocrites?

  9. Jack D. wrote:

    Sensitive, reasonable white folk have a hard time expressing discomfort they feel on the receiving end of anti-white racism — even around their own friends of color — because they don’t want to appear to be whiny anti-ANTI-racists. I appreciate Latoya’s narrative. Thank you.

  10. atlasien wrote:

    I believe one reason (among several possible) it isn’t discussed that much is because of the legions of racism deniers waiting to say “I KNEW people who talked about race were the REAL racists! This proves it! Reverse racism is worse than racism, which doesn’t exist anyway!” Which is exhausting.

  11. Michelle wrote:

    Carmen…

    Great question and I don’t really have an answer….but I do have an idea….

    You know, a common theme in our generation of women of color (I say women because that is who I have talked to the most about this issue, however I am sure that men can agree) is the pain of exclusion. Many of us grew up in situations where when we were around White people (if we didn’t live or go to school exclusively with White people), we were looked upon as so foreign, so alien, so other that we were made to feel less than. Not to mention the things that we heard, that we said and done to us and young people…and when you are young, especially adolescent, those experiences can wound and knife through your psyche. Perhaps we are still so close to those experiences. Perhaps it is not just as simple as anti-white racisim that needs to be addressed, but maybe expunging the demons first. You know, sometimes people can’t really hold rational thought or rational conversations until the immediate and (what is the term I am looking for) well, irrational pain is properly dealt with.

    I don’t know, for me…when I am around white people (and I am not at my best) it is not just about being racist, I am literally twelve years old, feeling scared and small and helpless.

  12. Kai wrote:

    Latoya, Carmen, well I don’t see “anti-white” as “racism” in the way these words are tradtionally used, though perhaps we are trying to redefine things here. Anti-white prejudice is obviously unright, but it’s an individual emotion rather than an overarching historical power structure which defines Class Society and global geopolitical imperial discourse. Or maybe we’re using these words differently? Personally I haven’t experienced any taboos regarding this subject, in fact it gets raised all time in my circles. I simply believe the analysis must connect and correspond personal feelings and behaviors to the actual shape of the external world, to the verifiable structure of power and wealth in our national and global society. How many black mortgage conglomerates hurt whites by denying them loans for property ownership? How many vice versa? How many brown countries bomb and invade white countries with impunity? How many vice versa? When I talk about racism, these are the things that I’m talking about, not personal feelings of resentment detached from actualized power and oppression. We probably need to continually clarify this rhetoric, though.

  13. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Thanks everyone.

    Tiffany - I know what you mean. One of the best things about being here was understanding other minority perspectives. It’s refreshing to learn about something a bit different, right?

    Atlasien - Bitterness does hold you back. I think what really kind of shocked me was that I wasn’t so angry that I was taking things out on individual white people - I still managed to maintain friendships, right up until after high school.

    What shocked me was the kind of low opinion I held about white people. I was beyond the point of being shocked by racist or bigoted behavior, because that is what I had grown to expect. I just assumed white people as a whole didn’t give a fuck about race relations, and if they did, they could not be bothered to do anything about it. At that point, I felt like explaining race and concepts was pointless - and nothing meaningful would ever come of it.

    I’m hoping that I’ll be able to prove myself wrong, by being more involved, and by really taking the time to listen to perspectives from white activists. It is so easy to tune out a message you don’t agree with.

    Mireille -

    Thanks for the support! It means a lot, especially when our viewpoints on one thing or another don’t go over well.

    The anti-white bias is a tought thing to check, especially because you run into so many issues of disagreement. Even with people with the sincere desire to learn, sometimes you just don’t want to teach…or, if their truths conflict with your truths, there is a bit of an ideological battle on your hands.

    Still, glad you are working on it - and working on race relations with people who are close to you.

    Kara - I feel you. You internalize so much.

    The funny thing (which is a bit off topic) is one of the most common negative experiences that my friends have with whites - being called a racial slur - has never happened to me. I don’t know why that is, but no one has ever said anything like that to me.

    At least to my face, anyway…

    So, it is interesting how we experience and process behavior by others.

    Drydock - Glad you liked it.

    Carmen -

    I feel like anti-white racism is accepted in many communities. It’s so common, it is a way of life. Also, white people don’t represent themselves too well in racial discussions. Things come off condescending (intentional or not), or naive, or dismissive. Or white people are outright denying the struggles that PoCs go through. Or its liberal bullshitting. I, for one, am trying to learn to scale back when discussing race with white people, and not immediately attack whenever something is said that I do not agree with. However, I do wish white people would be more willing to discuss issues of race as an open discussion, and not a definitive debate.

    I have to run to yoga, but when I get back, I’ll share a story when a white susbtitute teacher tried to break the ice in my high school class with a race-based joke…and how my reaction caused a ton of tension…

  14. Allen wrote:

    Carmen

    I think most people hate having view hypocrisy in themselves and that’s why they don’t want to discuss their anti-white feelings. Plus, growing up black, I was taught a lot of things about white people that make it really hard to take them at face value. Then I got in the real world and experienced all the things my parents warned me about. So, like Latoya, I’m trying to do better, but it can be frustrating when you realize that your only reward is the same sense of personal satisfaction that most people are still able to obtain while clinging to their own racial biases.

  15. Dan wrote:

    In re Carmen’s question, I think PoC are hesitant to look at anti-white sentiments because they don’t want to confirm the fantasies of persecution (by affirmative action, political correctness, not being able to use the n-word, etc, etc) that so many white folks labor under. A lot of white people who aren’t so educated about racial issues will jump to the conclusion that “look, people of color are racist too, so I guess I’m off the hook about my own racism!”

    I think in the long run it’s important to do as Latoya suggests, but in the short term I understand very well why PoC have a hard time letting go.

  16. David Wynn wrote:

    Latoya, I fully enjoyed your piece. Thank you so much for sharing. In my view, the most important idea you fleshed out was that of self-acceptance. Not just for what we want to be, but for the stages we go through to get there as well. An embrace of imperfection is a more than rare and welcome addition to the dialogue I find myself participating in all too often.

  17. egypt4 wrote:

    Latoya said, “Also, white people don’t represent themselves too well in racial discussions. Things come off condescending (intentional or not), or naive, or dismissive. Or white people are outright denying the struggles that PoCs go through. Or its liberal bullshitting.”

    Oh, I so agree with this. I cringe, sometimes, when I read comments like those made by that guy Brad in the Titus post. The thing that bugs me is how it always becomes about them, the white person.

    I’m white, so the closest I get to this is in my experience as a feminist. It seems like particularly in the 90s, there were all these men, smart but anti-feminist men, who would want to get into these big debates, “You mean you’re a feminist? But you don’t hate men.” The guys who would sign up for women’s studies classes and always ask a million basic question which slowed the class down so that we who wanted to talk and study more in-depth couldn’t do it. Et cetera. It gets so old.

    But I also know it can be really helpful to have conversations with people, in a relaxed setting, where you can talk honestly about race, religion, sexuality, etc. I had a great chat like this on a long car ride recently with two colleagues who are black. We talked about hair and body image and it was great.

    I’ve just moved to Egypt and have had some questions about Islam and local customs, and a female American convert and I had a nice chat where she answered lots of my questions. It was really helpful for me and she seemed glad to share what she knew. Then again, I wouldn’t live here if I were anti-Muslim so maybe this isn’t really relevant at all.

    I’ll also add that sometimes I get those weird questions from white people because my kids are black. One guy, a friend’s brother, whom I had just met, asked me about the n-word and why he wasn’t allowed to say it. Of course I talked to him about it, but he sounded so ignorant and unwilling, really, to learn. So now we just avoid him (very easy to do overseas!).

    I’ve strayed off-topic but I wanted to also say thanks to Latoya and Carmen for treading where few go.

  18. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    > Anti-white prejudice is obviously unright, but it’s an individual emotion rather than an overarching historical power structure which defines Class Society and global geopolitical imperial discourse.

    Kai, I don’t know that anti-white prejudice, as you call it, is just an individual emotion. It’s oftentimes a reaction to white supremacy/privilege, and therefore it’s sort of built into the system. And if it’s part of the system, then to me it’s still racism.

    I really don’t buy into the whole “POC’s can’t be racist, only prejudiced” thing. I don’t think you’re saying that exactly, but it could be read as that.

  19. Kai wrote:

    Carmen, I think I understand your point, which is that white supremacy also causes the dysfunction of people of color resenting white people. Is that right?

  20. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    Kai, yes. But to add onto that, I also think it’s a mistake to say that anti-white prejudice doesn’t count as racism.

  21. LM wrote:

    Latoya, great piece. Your candor sets a good example, and you have a nice way of expressing your mental byplay, too.

    Among many interesting points: “Refuting racist beliefs doesn’t really have any major benefits in society.”

    My first thought: “Sure, it does… at least if you change the verbiage slightly, to “for society.” True, that won’t necessarily bring adulation to the individual, especially in real time. But bringing down the a white supremacist structure isn’t the work of a single committed person, or even a single dedicated movement. It’s many individuals and many societal forces… we’re part of society so it’s our work to do. Or not do.

    My second thought: “Refuting racist beliefs is part of personal development”… along the same lines as Tiffany in Houston’s comment about expanding her world view. It’s not that we can’t function with our flaws, but failing to address the worst of them can eventually limit us. For most people, that’s OK… many of us are perfectly happy (though not proud of) being limited in this or other ways. This isn’t doing it for white people, or black people, or anyone else, it’s doing it for yourself. Sure, it’s not easy, but it’s worthwhile. (BTW, carried too far it’s easy for many people to become martyrs to the cause, a position that again I think many people are happy to fill because of the adulation they think they’re due. Just because something ain’t easy doesn’t mean it must be viewed as a sacrifice. By that logic, not stepping out of our comfort zones is just as much of a sacrifice. It’s just a matter of which we choose.)

    Ultimately I think that the true warriors in this cause are those who make it important to themselves but not about themselves. Or to flip that, know that it’s not about you but be about it. And so I don’t cause misunderstanding, I’m not suggesting that stuff doesn’t happen at a personal level — of course that shapes our mindset and range of experiences. But causing change, within ourselves and in society, requires us to push past what happens to us, to step back and see the larger context.

    So much more racing through my mind, but I’m got to break for now. I hope I’m decipherable if not prolific.

  22. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Hey, I criticize white people and culture all the time…and I’m white.

    Someone please give Latoya a gold star and a cookie for her many fine essays on Racialicious.

    Carmen is getting a lot of publicity and acclaim for her work on race. So am I, to a lesser degree, on my website and blog. Others here may be having similar experiences.

    So I wouldn’t be too quick to assume it’s a thankless job. I’d say a sizable minority of the population is ready for a message of tolerance and inclusiveness. That group is only going to grow as the dinosaurs die off and the young inherit the earth.

  23. mireille wrote:

    Oh, the PoC can’t be racist thing is so absolutely absurd. My mother has an awful racist streak in her…Though, I would like to adjust that and say it’s more classist than anything, but it’s still humiliating and awful.

    Both of my parents are strangely classist (perhaps racist?) against poor white people. Trailer trash is a white racial stereotype. My father was shocked (but accepting) that I am dating a boy from rural Tennessee. Both of my parents have made comments about how well spoken, cultured and well informed he is. My father also grew up poor and through 30 + years of education has become comfortably upper middle class. They simply assumed I would never date a boy so far removed from my affluent upbringing. In my father’s case, is this an example of white vs white racism? Is that even possible?
    Bringing it a step further, why are white racial stereotypes like the drunk co-ed, the depraved mass murder, etc. never called out for what they are?
    Also, have you ever heard Asian girlfriends or wives of white men say anything racist against their significant other or family? I know this is now TOTALLY off topic, but I had a friend who said the most derogatory thing against the white women in her boyfriend’s family. I found it really puzzling because she HATED any whisper of anti white sentiments by other PoC.

  24. xenia wrote:

    I arrived in the US a decade ago as a refugee. In my part of the world, people look phenotypically white, although very curly, almost kinky hair is not uncommon (I’m not from Latin America). I always cross “other” just on principle, first because I do not see myself as white, second because I wish the proportion of non-whites in the US to increase.

    I could write a novel about my impressions on racism, but I’ll pass. Just a few observations: We were first settled in a poor, exclusively black area in a major city in the South. Perhaps a third of the refugee kids came to identify themselves as white. About a third didn’t care. The rest learned English in black schools, dated black teenagers, and remained in the area. (When I say black, I do not mean that “blacks” or “Afro-Americans” are one homogeneous mass. The English language, which reflects the racist society, pushes this generalization upon me. Sorry.)

    I succeeded in enrolling in a prestigious university. Years later, after I have left the US, it is still a matter of great shame and wonder that there always seemed to be a veil between me, and black kids, especially males. Black body language, the jokes, the awareness that they could not count on protection from the state, those were all familiar to me, whereas US white middle class people seemed both alienated and naive. Yet, no long term friendship formed between me and any black kids at my university, although I have had moments of great emotional intimacy between me and one or two black immigrant girls. I am not talking here about sex, or about hoping that some mystical black “mojo” if you allow, would pass onto me. I am simply talking about friendship, regular contacts, confidence, laughing and crying together. While being poor, I am very bookish, and not exceedingly social or interested in sports, so you could blame it on my particularity.

    However, I experienced something interesting on the last trip to the US. (I live in a third world country now, btw.) Of course, I was the only “white” woman at the airport with non-blondified hair. As it often happens in those situations, I felt a surge of solidarity and love for women
    of color, for the textures of their hair, for the faces which did not look like the standardized empty Britney lookalikes. The next few days the experience repeated itself: on the street, in the stores, in any open spaces I rejoiced to see black people, I felt warmer and more protected.

    The third week in the US I realized that on the subway and in the street I had started to move away from black people, to make myself smaller and move into a corner when a group of black boys passed me on the street. I did not have any solidarity with the whites, but I tend to stare them down and smirk at them rather than physically move away from them. I analyzed my thoughts and I realized they had become more subtly racist as well, reflecting everyone else’s consciousness.

    In short, my first week I felt acutely my own poor, third world background, and my emotions and my body language were in sync. The third week, the general racism around all of us started inundating me. I suddenly disliked my own body as well, seeing it as too small, too fat. Perhaps straight hair could be beautiful occasionally? Perhaps there is a reason to fear some black men qua black?

    I was happy to leave, it had turned into a torture, as I did not like the whites and I did not trust them, yet I knew that I am not black, neither by culture, nor by recent ancestry.

    It was good to stop in Egypt on my trip back. Not only is it one of the most hospitable country in the world, not only are most people resolutely against the war, but you also realize the absurdity and the evil of the US racial hierarchy. In Egypt, although Egyptians can be xenophobic as well, the concept of race really does not make any sense. The physical appearance of the people reflects Egypt
    s history and geography: Middle Eastern, African and Mediterranean, all at once, often in the same face. I only wished most people in the US reflected the US history and looked like a European, African, Native American and Asian mixture. Perhaps then the current war would not have been possible, and musings such as mine would be unnecessary.

  25. xenia wrote:

    Sorry for one more post, hope this is legit.

    PS If I were black in the US, I would hate the white people, as Malcolm X did, and my feelings would only become more nuanced with greater age and experience. However, I also think I would leave the country, and I would settle somewhere where I would not have to inflict self-doubt upon myself every moment of my existence. It gets tiring to fight against the great majority which has most of the power.

  26. Annahid@rogers.com wrote:

    Hey,

    A quick note from a Canadian anti-racist/ diversity educator…. congrats on writing such an honest, edge-pushing piece. I believe we need to find ways beyond the white/ guilty and coloured/angry duality that has been the limitation of pure anti-racism theory and approaches.

    Quick and random thoughts:
    -people of colour also have responsibilty to undo their own bias towards other groups. eg.many muslim communities have strong prejudice toward black people.
    -alongside the systemic story of racism there is also the story of personal healing. Both things are true and how do we hold space for more than one truth…
    -How can we find ways across the emotional divide and create spaces adn offer skills to keep people inquisitive, open and fundamentally in connection with one another?

    If we start holding whiteness as the problem as opposed to power dynamics themselves, we are in danger of de-humanizing white folks- as you point out in your article, we are then guilty of the same…

  27. Angela wrote:

    Powerful post Latoya. I’m still trying to sort out my position as an anti-racist since I was alienated by black people for most of my life and feel somewhat like a fraud (or, like Paul *g*) in taking up the cudgel and wielding it. But even now that I’m involved, I’m beginning to see the frustration and mistrust and clouds of mistrusting myself that crop up when wanting to discuss racial issues with white people, and I’m faced for the first time with the “novelty” of being rejected by white people. o.O Brava.

  28. BSA Pontif wrote:

    This is a GREAT post. I’d be very interested to hear you weigh in on the Millenia Black v. Penguin Group situation.

  29. alessandra wrote:

    just a note on the “people of color can’t be racist”– i firmly agree and think it would be helpful to actually have some common definition of racism so as not confuse it with prejudice. racism is race prejudice COMBINED with institutional power. race prejudice, stereotyping, and flat-out hatred, however are fully accessible (and utilized by) whites and people of color alike.

    historically, in the u.s. institutional power has simply not been accessible to people of color. as such, they (we) have not had the power or influence to create and maintain institutions or structures that are built on anti-white principles and policies. in cases where we have it is most certainly the exception.

    i would urge you to complicate your understanding of what exactly racism IS and how it has historically operated as opposed to prejudice which, though nonetheless poisonous, has had and continues to yield its own distinct results.

  30. dnA wrote:

    anti-white people or anti-whiteness?

  31. Benjamin wrote:

    being white doesn’t mean that you HAVE Privilege and supremacy,

    the eastern european, the jewish, the french-canadians,the acadians, the basque , ukranian, polish and many more i forget don’t have necesseraly this white PRIVILEGE and white SUPREMACY that the white ANGLO-SAXON have.

    i’m just tired that you put all the white people in the same basket , there’s too much generalization

    you should talk about the ANGLO SAXON privilege and supremacy, not the WHITE privilege

  32. Benjamin wrote:

    “Guilty Of Being White” by Minor Threat

    I’m sorry
    For something I didn’t do
    Lynched somebody
    But I don’t know who
    You blame me for slavery
    A hundred years before I was born

    GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

    I’m sorry
    For something I didn’t do
    Lynched somebody
    But I don’t know who
    You blame me for slavery
    A hundred years before I was born

    GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

    I’m a convict
    GUILTY
    Of a racist crime
    GUILTY
    I’ve only served
    GUILTY
    19 years of my time

    I’m sorry
    For something I didn’t do
    Lynched somebody
    But I don’t know who
    You blame me for slavery
    A hundred years before I was born

    GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

  33. gatamala wrote:

    Wow! You folks have managed to flesh out some serious issues here.

    Xenia Thanks for sharing your POV. You show how the more obvious and extreme forms of the battles swallow up other voices, and inflict a lot of pain. For all your battle scars you’ve gained a hell of a lot of insight.

    My thing is that I’ve been very familiar with whites due to my upbringing. However, I did have some other black folks that participated in community activities. To this day, I can hang with all, but sometimes I just need a “break” from educating or bearing insults.

    Sadly this experience was filled w/ the kind of things that Latoya mentioned. Racial slurs starting from kindergarten. The nword came in 4th grade. White parents wouldn’t let their daughters stay the night (same neighborhood). People moved out when we moved in. Physical attacks.

    LP your feelings mirror some of mine. However I cannot consider people that I can’t be “racially comfortable” (my own feeling) with as friends. Even in retrospect, I guess they were just acquaintances.

  34. Lisa wrote:

    I’ll chime in that when I meet white people, especially from the US, I automatically assume the worst from them. I assume they will be ignorant, arrogant and self-important. 70% of the time they are.

    They’re not blatantly racist, but often subtly so: the naive assumption that their lifestyle, socioeconomic position, cultural habits, what they see in the mirror is “normal”. And that anything different is “abnormal”. They tend to stick to their “own”, and avoid interaction with people who would challenge their assumptions. It makes me really uncomfortable to be around, placing in the dilemma of whether to ignore obnoxious remarks, or be the “killjoy” who calls people out on it.

    I am arguably racist towards white Americans - and I am one myself.

    I’ve lived in China for a decade, and get so frustrated with all the prejudices that people have towards me here, assuming because I’m white that I am stupid, gullible, loud and inconsiderate. But, most Caucasians in Asia do act that way, so I understand and sympathise with those biases.

    I suppose the formula works universally. Saying that some/most/a lot of ____ people are ____ may be quite true, not just or actually a stereotype. The problem is when the “some/most/a lot” becomes “all”.

  35. atlasien wrote:

    There are competing definitions of racism out there… I personally like the really simple definition that racism = prejudice plus power. Just plain power. If a large prejudiced non-white person physically beats up a small, white just-minding-their-own-business person, that’s racism to me.

    I agree institutionalized racism towards whites is rare and very much an exception. Anti-affirmative-action zealots love digging it out and blowing it way out of proportion wherever they can find it… but it does exist.

    I also think minorities face a higher penalty for anti-white prejudice/racism than the other way around. Even if a person can successfully organize life to totally minimize contact with white people, it’s often limiting economically… whereas prejudiced white people can limit their contact with non-whites much, much more easily. Odds are everyone will have to deal with a white teacher, banker, policeman, etc. at some point in their life and if you have nervousness and lack of confidence in that dealing, the outcome may not be optimal.

  36. atlasien wrote:

    Ha, I just saw that Minor Threat lyric post.

    I knew a kid in Miami who used it as his theme song… he made it his own by always singing the chorus “GUILTY OF BEING PUERTO RICAN!”.

  37. La - msviswan wrote:

    Latoya, this is a wonderful article and it’s very thought provoking. I could say so much about it because I relate so well. However, I do somewhat agree with Kai’s assessment on the comparison accept. This brings me to Carmen’s question:

    Atlasien said something similar to how I feel. I think things get taken out of context and have a nasty way of twisting in the other direction. I don’t like the reverse racism psychology rhetoric in attempt to dismiss my legitimates on anti-color racism. It’s exhausting and some people use it to cover aid their denial.

    Anyway, I feel relieved I can express these feelings also. I personally do not have any white friends and never really did. This is partly because I live in a predominately black community and mostly because I now have a strong intolerance for potential white denial. Sometimes I want to have white friends, but I don’t know how to relate. I try not to marginalize all white people, but I do have a strong distrust. This distrust was not passed on from my family, but from my own observations. I also get suspicious and annoyed when I see older white men with young black women. I start to think of my bias towards my older white Danish grandfather and my younger black grandmother. Michelle mentioned above, when she’s sometimes around white people she may feel helpless or so. I found that interesting because I’m the opposite. I found most of my experience with white people to be condescending towards me. Therefore, I now realize I subconsciously maintain an extra assertive demeanor to purposely somewhat intimidate them, I guess. I also realized, I stopped smiling with white people as an adult, because I’m afraid they take it for weakness or submissiveness. I’m trying hard to work on these :bias” issues I have. I’m getting tired and drained from being this defensive way, but I’m so afraid to let my guard down. Right now, I have an older white female Republican co-worker that’s putting me back from progress more each day.

    Someone in the office mentioned they pray for Latinos and Blacks to be at peace because they read Latinos were randomly killing blacks in LA, and a young black girl died recently. White female coworker, sarcastically asked if that’s the same state that let OJ go?

    Someone mentioned less blacks are signing up for the military since the war, white female coworker says out of the blue HER ancestors fought in the civil war to end “slavery”. (?)

    You see, this is the kind of thing I’m talking about too. It may seem minor, but how can I honestly be close friends with a maybe younger white female if she also happens to share these similar sentiments as well?

    Anyway, like I said I too can relate and I’m still re-evaluate my own bias feelings either way. Sorry to be so long, I love talking about race relations.

    Peace to all,

  38. donna darko wrote:

    Anti-white racism can be caused by prejudice based on experience, but yeah, it’s still racism.

    Whereas anti-POC racism is mostly caused by prejudice based on ignorance.

  39. egypt4 wrote:

    Xenia, I want to respond to your comment about race not exisitng in Egypt. I disagree. I’ve only been here a short time, but comments I’ve heard from other people who live here suggest otherwise.

    Many Egyptians are light br0wn, Arab stock, with straight, dark hair and brown eyes. However, there are many darker Egyptians, who are usually “Nubians” from the southern part of Egypt near Sudan. These people look like black Africans, not Middle Eastern Arabs. And you won’t see many Nubians with a lot of political power in Egypt.

    A white American woman friend of mine who has a black daughter says she has noticed different and preferential treatment of her daughter by the Nubians, especially in bureaucratic situations where things are held up.

    As a smart woman pointed out on my own blog, even in old tomb paintings, women are portrayed as having lighter skin than the men.

    Finally, colorism exists elsewhere in Africa, at least in Ethiopia. People in Ethiopia range from light brown to very dark. When I adopted my first son, an Ethiopian friend in Ethiopia commented to me, “Oh, good, he’s not dark; he’s light.”

    This has little to do with Latoya’s post, but I did want to correct some misperceptions about Egypt.

  40. ccch wrote:

    Great piece!. About time too!.

    Living, working in Europe as a PoC has helped me greatly to confront my inbred prejudices as most Europeans, although discreet, are not afraid to call one out on such “discrepancies”. This had the benefit of dismantling the chip on the shoulder I brought over here with me and finally enabling me to openly discuss with my colleagues about racism. It amazed me how enlightening my European colleagues are, but do realize they’re coming from a “freer” historical stand point.
    Although I as a PoC may carry a burden of my history, the opposite is true for whites and anyone. Dialogue and the willingness to empathise (no man is ultimately an island) should be givens if our goal is to absolve guilt and blame towards a humanely richer society.

    PS: I love the expression PoC as it’s not exclusive. For too long other minorities’ voices haven’t been heard!

  41. crista wrote:

    oooo i like what atlasien wrote: “”I also think minorities face a higher penalty for anti-white prejudice/racism than the other way around. Even if a person can successfully organize life to totally minimize contact with white people, it’s often limiting economically… whereas prejudiced white people can limit their contact with non-whites much, much more easily.”

    j agree!!!!! basically, if they want to, a white person can forget race even exists, save for a few added color on TV.

    I think its pretty hard for someone who is not white to forget that, even if the contact is minimal. the magazines at the grocery store the smiling faces on advertising the people on billboards, the nation’s leaders, the president, the celebrities…… i mean how many look like ”you??” (do i need to argue the importanct of seeing someone in the media who looks like yourself)

    So, facing, dealing with, talking about, discussing, self questions, and all the self discipline that goes into informing your own opinions on race, and racism is something that can never be forgot. I think the dialogue is more…there..like how the author described. Not saying only white people are racists, but i think its probably something more of an active racism, dynamic..changing.

    For white racists, they can actually go on in a happy go lucky world never questioning and never really having that dialogue. I think there are people who are white who have never questioned their place.

    i think it would be hard in America to find someone who wasn’t white who had.

  42. latinamericanprinces wrote:

    I’m pretty new to Racialicious but am totally addicted. This is by far the most outstanding post I have read to date. As others have pointed out power is important in the discussion, as well as self-esteem. There is a difference between hate/prejudice JUST for the sake of hate/prejudice and hate/prejudice resulting from a lifetime of bad experiences. Of course getting over the hate is vital in both cases. And hating back isn’t going to solve anything.

    Getting over ignorance is another story though, which is one of the most difficult parts of the issue these days. Today’s insidious, subtle racism is harder to combat because most people just don’t see it (don’t want to see it, can’t be bothered, etc. etc.).

    But in this post and discussion I see some incredibly heartening breakthroughs.

    1. self-healing and coming to terms. I sometimes wonder if blogging makes a difference but the comments from people about increasing self-awareness and self-healing are proof of the power of the medium. I think it is because of the dialogical and reciprocal nature of it.

    2. racism is a dialogue between Others. While power has historically made the discussion seem one side, this post and it’s double-sided discussion marks an important shift in the discussion of racism and issues of race (in my humble opinion). Ok, this is hard for me to put into words. It may sound a bit strange, but bear with me please. In crude terms: blacks didn’t even have enough power to be racist before, but that has been changing. Now it is critical though to avoid walking down that racist path and dialogue more as equals. Not that it is completely equal yet, but the next step in achieving greater equality should perhaps be dialoguing more as equals.

    3. “white people” as it is sometimes used is a dehumanizing, stereotyping label also. Just as we latinos, arab americans, blacks and other groups are fighting to be recognized as highly diverse groups and to break the stereotypes imposed on us, we should avoid stereotyping and lumping the Other. The Golden Rule or Ethic of Reciprocity is a good guidance here.

    Having never personally experienced extreme racism and discrimination in the U.S., it was difficult to completely understand some people’s feelings in reaction, but I have always firmly believed all humans are equal and we should keep fighting for that reality. In Europe I have experienced some frustration for treatment I receive for being American (I can’t help where I was born, anymore than one can help what color one’s skin is), so I am beginning to understand the hatred better. I am also surprised by how much some native Dutch remind me of ignorant, racist white Americans. However all of it just shows that racism, prejudice and hate come in all forms and sizes. We are all the same and yet we are all different. It’s amazing and so hard to comprehend at the same time. And there just isn’t one solution. We need as many solutions as there are problems and open, honest and balanced dialogue (like on this post) seems like a good way to go.

    You are all heroes in my book!

  43. The Joy Princess wrote:

    LP: you may want to think about possibly submitting some version of this to the My Turn column in Newsweek, depending on how you feel about sharing such a personal story with such a mag and audience.

  44. Lainad wrote:

    Great post, Latoya.

    I agree with atlesien, I think that it is more socially tolerable when whites express racist thoughts / ideology verus when a person of colour does. It seems rational; and for POC’s it’s like, “how dare you? You are ungrateful.” As a transracial adoptee whose family is white, I get that alot when my anti-racist work and writings are brought up during family events.

    Whenever I answer a question on a project or something I wrote ( hey, my parents brag about me…totally clueless but I love them!) one of my relatives thinks that providing their opinion as a “explanation,” it will solve all the racial problems of the world, or stop me from doing what I do. Several years ago, I stopped notifying people whenever something was published or I when I appeared on a radio or TV program because of the response and knowing how I would respond, which is biting my lip so I wouldn’t curse them out. It is hurtful how despite these people knowing me (or believing that they do) all my life, they think so little of me that my life’s work is considered irrelevant.

    Despite my family situation, I too stugggle sometimes with anti-white sentiments and one of the above posters hit it on the head for me: from not only the racism I experienced at a young age but the exclusion, of not feeling like a human being has impacted me greatly - not feeling like a woman, a sexual being who can exercise their sensuality in a positive, healthy way without being taken advantage of (curiously enough, a lot of my black girlfriends struggle with that too).

    It is hard to reconcile the hatred I felt as a kid because I knew that how I was treated was wrong, but the resentment I am still struggling with because of the emotional baggage that has lasted over 30 years has greatly affected my adult life. So my thoughts are because of lived experiences and I have a difficult time sympathising with whites who harbour racist thoughts just for the sake of having them. There is a difference, even though both circumstances are wrong.

    Off to therapy!!!

  45. merq wrote:

    Killer post, Latoya. And great comments, folks.

  46. Tracey wrote:

    I always get to the discussion late since my firewall prevents me from commenting from work. I just wanted to say how much I loved this post. Thank you so much for putting yourself out there and writing it. I agree that it is one of the very special things about this forum that people can be so much more open than they often are in other places that should matter just as much (like schools and communities).

  47. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Kai/Alessandra -

    I completely see your points. I have heard the arguments many times about how POCs cannot be racist because they lack power to enforce their racist beliefs.

    While I understand the argument, I do not agree with it. A large component of racism does come from power. However, people lacking in social power can also be racist.

    I intentionally identified my actions as racist, not simply prejudiced, because I feel that many people of color do not see prejudiced or bigoted behavior as racism.

    This is especially important with how PoCs interact with each other. If I do not see myself as racist, why would I think comments aimed at other races were racist?

    I have heard African-Americans use racial slurs against Asians (first gen or otherwise) and Muslims, and vice versa. But they do not perceive the comments as racist.

    I personally feel like claiming an ugly label such as “racist” does force you to think through your motives for saying what you are saying and doing what you are doing. That’s why the word was used.

    As for Anti-White Racism vs. Anti-White Prejudice…is it ok if we adjourn this temporarily in favor of dedicating a conversation to it in the future? I think the concepts that are put forth in that argument are worth exploring and examining as a whole topic - not just notes in a comments section.

  48. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Benjamin -

    Please explain to me how in the context of American conversation, I can quickly determine your ethnic make up and background by the color of your skin.

    Unfortunately, I cannot.

    I have met a sum total of one white person who took the pains to identify himself as anything other than the generic term “white.”

    He identified as French-Canadian - and my experiences with him were the same as with any other random white person. He told e - in a suggestive manner - that women of color were more wild in bed, and had better sex drives.

    Unbidden mind you - we weren’t dating, we were two coworkers waiting for the metro after work.

    Also, Benjamin, also keep in mind that white people have the luxury of complete assimilation.

    Even if your relatives came over here in the 1980s, fleeing from oppressive poverty, social injustice, persecution, or what have you, once you shed your accent, you can become one of the many “white” Americans in this country. If you grew up here, you have for the most part assimilated.

    My family might have been in America for centuries - and I say might because I do not know - but I will always be acknowledged as being black first, American second. You could be a second generation settler, and be seen as American first, white second.

    Unless you SAY otherwise, I will not know.

    Also, I don’t think anyone is “guilty” of being white. People are guilty of being willfully ignorant of history, and people are guilty of willfully ignoring how this tainted history we share plays out in today’s society.

    I invite you to stay and check out some more of our conversations. As you can see from my post, I am trying not to judge people solely on their whiteness.

    However, quoting trite song lyrics makes it kind of difficult for me…I’m having yet another “justified racist moment,” so can you please refrain from doing that?

    I look forward to seeing your comments in other discussions.

  49. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    LM, Xenia, Gatamala, La, Lainad, ccch, Crista, donna, and egypt - great comments. I really appreciate you all sharing your experiences and perspectives.

    Donna - that is a great way to look at things. A bit simplified, but I like how you phrased it.

    LM - I agree…the last thing I want is martyrdom for the cause. And, as I think I wrote in another post, I cannot stand self-hating white people.

    We are working through some very heavy topics and issues, and anger & guilt are two emotions that quickly rise to the surface. But I think white people have been done a great disservice by being made to feel that being proud of your heritage is wrong. What’s worse, I feel, is that the entire concept of “white pride” has been co-opted by white supremacists - where do regular white people go to be proud of their achievements?

    I know a lot of white people take their interest in culture and heritage, and channel that into being American - however, that is difficult to do, as America was built on the backs of so many different types of people.

    I would be interested to see how some of our white readers try to reconcile that tricky balance. Do white people feel as though they can express pride in their race?

    I feel like PoCs have a lot more of an opportunity to come to grips with both the negative aspects and the positive aspects of our histories.

    So while African-Americans may cringe when Hot Ghetto Mess seems to reinforce the negative stereotypes and reflections that are attributed to our race, we can still find a shared element of pride in our culture, heritage and perseverance.

    I wonder how white people find a balance.

  50. ccch wrote:

    Latoya Peterson wrote:
    I wonder how white people find a balance.

    So do I.

    Latoya/anyone
    Do you think that’s why the media (which is largely white) re-enforces the negative stereotypes of minorities?. Could it be perhaps a form of protest, as, like Latoya insinuated, they perhaps lack a “shared element of pride in their culture”, because they are not allowed to show pride in their heritage for fear of being labeled racist?. OMGoodness!!!.

    Man, this blog helped to open my perspective to other minorities, now you’re forcing me to place myself, to analyse, empathise with the majority. And I honestly don’t like what I’ve been projecting!!!

  51. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Joy -

    Interesting thought. It is way personal, and I agonized over this piece for about three months before I was able to express all of these feelings in a way I felt would be a conversation, and not a vent or a rant or a justification of my own prejudices.

    I spent a lot of time thinking about some of LM’s comments to my post on Cathy Sulstri, and wondering if my strong reaction to her piece was a part of my anti-white prejudice. I eventually came to the conclusion that it was a combination of things:

    1. Some of it was anti-white sentiment. I find it very hard to drum up sympathy for white people who present themselves as helpless in dealing with their racist thoughts, or as if they are victims of us harsh minority perspectives. (Hence why that Minor Threat song chafes me a bit - what, am I supposed to shed a tear for your false sense of oppression?)

    2. It was also my cynicism as a writer. As a freelancer fighting to get published, I know how powerful a hook is in getting your foot in the door. A white woman writing is just like anyone else. A white woman that is a reluctant racist has a hook. She can explore her feelings in multiple op-ed pieces. It is a piece that many white people can relate to (remember that real housewives comment about chinamen, and the waves of support that followed.) It could potentially be a book deal. So, in effect, being a racist would be profitable, and could lead to more work. A cynical capitalist viewpoint, but a true one…

    3. The quick brush off. I am also put off from having these conversations with whites because at any time they can choose to opt-out. Penalty free. I invited Sulustri here on her blog, and she did not respond, as far as I know. I did, however, see a piece where she confronts the white supremacists who posted on her blog, and emphatically tells her neighbor “I would rather live here the rest of my life, than to ever be like them!”

    I read that and thought, there’s the cop-out. You have found someone else to villify - those are the real racists. No more introspection needed. And as far as I am aware, there has not been any more discussion of race on that blog. So now - rightly or wrongly - I feel justified that it was all an act. She didn’t give a fuck about eradicating her racist thoughts, she found peace with them instead.

    Like I said, I could be misconstruing. But that is how I felt.

    Still, LM’s comments (or rather, his reactions to my comments) really stuck me deep, and kind of forced me to write this one.

    Sharing this with a mass audience though, I need to think about.

    The readers of Racialicious, I feel a connection to. You prove your dedication to conversation, insight, and thought by just being here. I really do feel that this is an intimate space, and I value the opinions and ideas presented by the people who take the time to comment regularly.

    I read your blogs that you link to, your reactions to other posts, and I feel like there is a connection here.

    Taking these ideas into a less forgiving space - particularly early on in my writing career, could have ramifications beyond what I can consider.

    So, thank you for the suggestion, and I think this would be a great dialogue to open up to a larger audience.

    However, the most important thing to me when I write is to make sure my ideas are understood. Clearly. The last thing I would want is for white readers to take the piece as an attack. So, if anyone has any suggestions on how to provoke thought, rather than create a divisive debate, please let me know.

    (Luckily, this topic is evergreen - no real rush to make a decision now.)

  52. crista wrote:

    its hard to express ”pride” in something that in society is read as just ‘normal” and just the way things are ‘’supposed” to be. I think there is a small nuance to the way you discuss this racialized term of WHITE and then these underlying identifications of nationality (irish, german, etc. etc.)

    i think people who are not white usually dont have this ‘’solidarity” like, oh we are white together.that will bring us together and create common ground.

    from the time i grew up i was taught that who i am is defined individually. I was never forced to be recognized first by a giant collective ”you are (insert race) so you should do this action.”

    So..while there is this idea of ”the black experiance” or maybe ” the asian experiance” those things fail to recognize the vast difference of experiances that can be contained under the skin of that person which are also tempered by class..

    ”the white experiance” recognizes that, at least i think if you are talking about us white folk getting together to talk about ourselves. It about where you are from, what your parents did. The collective ”pride” i think comes in another forms.

    And definately not taught..wow JFK was an awesome president and WHITE. lets me proud of that…

    Now, maybe people who are looking in, who think of all the benefits and privaledges affored white people, you see this white experiance very very clearly. and you see commonalities. But for me, as white person. I am taught to see my experiance as the norm. And see myself only as an individual. Its everyone else who is ”different.”

  53. Kai wrote:

    Latoya, I absolutely see your point as well; and knowing what a fine crafter of language you are, there was no doubt in my mind that your word choices were conscious and meaningful.

    I agree that the taxonomy of racism deserves a whole examination and discussion unto itself. And of course I agree that POC can hold racist attitudes toward other POC; indeed I like to say that all of us, of all backgrounds, who are socialized in a racist society internalize and participate in racism, even against ourselves, in our own minds. One of my big goals as an anti-racist is coalition-building between communities of color, and needless to say it can be tough-going, since racism is designed to pit us against one another as we triangulate against whiteness. When people of color propagate or uphold racism, I usually describe this behavior as “pro-racist” in order to distinguish my usage from the reactionary usage you see on the far right, which is intended to reduce the word “racism” to a bunch of relativistic criss-crossed fingerpointing which ignores empirical social inequality and race-class stratification. But then, I’m not married to any particular semantic scheme either, so we’ll see where all this goes.

    In any case, thanks for this wonderful piece of prose and rich discussion! I totally understand your hesitancy of going mass market with a piece like this, it is highly charged terrain with plenty of peril; though of course if you do decide to go big, I’ll be cheering you on.

    Peace.

  54. Mark N. wrote:

    Latoya, this post is bloody brilliant.

    I wish to continue on something Latinamericanprincess said about perceptions of Americans overseas. I found that when I experienced anti-Americanism while living abroad that it didn’t matter about the ethnic origins of my American friends abroad when it came to getting blamed for actions (both current and long in the past) taken by our country. I realized that at least in my experience, we all, fairly or unfairly, seem to have to share the burdens of empire, the legacy wrought by slavery and brutal removal of natives from this continent, etc. Even those among the oppressed in this country are tainted by the fact that we are citizens of this global superpower. Not that I’m suggesting this will bring us all together as uberpatriots or something like that nor do I mean to say we shouldn’t vigorously challenge our own beliefs. However, I do find it fascinating just how many layers all of these fears and prejudices have, especially when the international meets the local. Once again though, brilliant post and great comments, I’m so so glad that I discovered this site, I really do learn more and more with every post.

  55. LM wrote:

    I’m reading through the comments and there are so many dangling threads off which I’m tempted to spin that I’m verging on paralysis.

    On the concept of “white pride” (Latoya #49): I think there’s no such thing, except as a racist response to the concept of “black” or any other racial/ethnic pride, which tends to spring from completely different contexts. So no one ought try to co-opt “white pride” from white supremacist groups.

    This isn’t to say that a white person has nothing to be proud of… but it isn’t of being white. It’s also not to say white people should be ashamed of being white.

    But the short way most white Americans express non-virulent “white pride” is by saying, “I’m proud to be an American.” And we’re all familiar with what goes unsaid behind that seemingly innocent phrase. (BTW — I’m not against people being proud to be Americans, or against them saying it. The problems come from ignorance about why someone else — including your fellow American — might be uncomfortable about saying the same thing, or why that pride as an American ought well be mixed with shame.)

    I don’t have time now to lay my thoughts out in more detail but will do my best to return here shortly. In the meantime, if someone would like to build on or shred my beginning I will read with interest.

  56. Lloyd Webber wrote:

    This post hits pretty close to home. I’ve been struggling with these kinds of internal feelings pretty much since I’ve been interacting with white people. I moved to Canada as a teenager, and the sheer amount of ignorant comments I got such as “have you ever seen a car?, how come you speak english?, do you speak in clicks?” The fact that I refused to humor their ignorant questions just made me somewhat of a pariah. I was only one of 2 blacks in the entire school and the crushing sense of isolation was pretty overwhelming. Pretty much all my experiences with whites have been negative. And yet I try very hard not to make any sweeping generalizations, but so far the rewards I’ve gotten for trying my best to be anti racist is just more ridicule and the most hurtful slurs and remarks possible. But its the right thing to do so one must continue.

  57. MoxieHart wrote:

    Hey,
    I’m new to Racialicious, I just found out about it through Bitch magazine.
    I identify as white/Native American–I look very white but my Native American heritage is really important to me.
    I liked this article a lot. It did make me uncomfortable, in a good way, because it made me question some assumptions that I’d taken for granted.
    So thanks for posting this.

  58. atlasien wrote:

    Yep this is a great discussion!

    LP: “What’s worse, I feel, is that the entire concept of “white pride” has been co-opted by white supremacists - where do regular white people go to be proud of their achievements?”

    I think it’s actually not too hard for truly progressive white people to negotiate this. It sounds tricky in theory, but regular people do it all the time… they just celebrate other aspects of their identity: ethnic and regional. As a white person you can be a proud Southerner, Vermonter, Acadian, Portuguese-descended, Scotch-Irish, etcetera. Being proud of these aspects of your identity doesn’t invoke hatred and exclusion like “white pride” does. I think that’s the healthiest position for a white person to take: proud of their ethnic and regional identity inherited from their ancestors, neutral and critical (but not guilty or ashamed) when it comes to their whiteness.

    I forgot where I read this, but there was a great book that argued that white people have a lot of freedom to separate their race and ethnicity. A simple example: you can be a proud Irish-American without going into “white pride” or sparing much thought about what it means to be white. The same book argued that African-Americans have the least degree of freedom to separate race and ethnicity. So it’s socially unacceptable to say you’re a proud Irish-American if you are of visible black descent, even if you’re equally of Irish descent… race restricts ethnicity.

    Other people of color fall somewhere between those two extremes. For example, Asian-Americans strongly articulate their separate ethnicities but are still lumped together as one race. The situation with Latinos is weird and complicated… ethnicity restricts race (Anglo-socially, a black Latino is often ambiguously black, a white Latino ambiguously white) and becomes a quasi-racial category in itself.

  59. CScarlet wrote:

    Latoya- I have enjoyed every one of your posts so, so much. You have such an open writing style.

    I really relate at this point in my life to your description of the process/state of being an anti-racist. Being the one that stares or tries to ignore racist jokes. Being told you have no sense of humor. Checking yourself, every minute, with every thought. And thinking over your day and cringing over things you said/did or could have.

    Again, this was so awesome.

  60. Colin wrote:

    “The reason I am involved with racial activism today, the motivation behind wanting to build bridges and understanding between different groups of people, the reason I found Racialicious in the first place all stems from one thing: my intrinsic bias against white people.”

    I don’t understand; are you saying here that your anti-racist activities were part and parcel with your anti-white prejudice?

  61. JC wrote:

    I don’t really find myself being anti-white in real life; in fact I tried hard not to think of anyone around me in racist stereotypes.

    However, I find myself being weary of white dominated media and cultural ideas. I often try to debug my mind to avoid looking at the world through “white” and Euro-centric eyes. I also find myself prefer creative efforts, whether it be music, film, books, or works of art, by people of color (or rather, anyone not White). It’s not that I would hate a book by a white author, but I would enjoy and seek out works by a non-white person.

    I guess you can call this anti-white racism in a way, but as hard as I try, this cultural bias is something I can’t diminish no matter how hard I try. I feel like I’m living in a lily white world, and any sort of “color” will keep my intellectual mind alive. I guess deep inside I’m just sick and tired of white people claiming everything of value in the history of mankind as their own achievement.

  62. Emily wrote:

    Latoya -

    You asked if white people have cultural pride in being white outside of white supremecist organizations and I think the answer is no. I think expressing pride in “white people’s achievements” would be weird, though I suppose it is done in certain euphemistic ways.

    What I mean is, being proud of the contributions of “Western Civilization” or emphasizing the importance of the “judeo-christian” heritage of our legal system is I think for some people code for celebrating the historical achievements of white people as a group. Of course, using it that way erases the contributions of non-whites within those broader categories.

    Other than these types of euphemisms, I think many white people do take pride in the achievements of a sub-group that they identify with - either by country of origin or by religion or by some more local unit of identity such as home town. I don’t know if any of these are really “equivalent” since PoC of course have home towns and religions and countries of origin too.

    I guess one question for me that comes out of that paragraph of your comment is - what is white people’s “heritage.” For me, I think, I have always considered my “heritage” Jewish, though my “race” is white. I think it’s sort of strange but interesting too to think about to what degree I even have a concept of “white heritage.” I do think the only people putting out a concrete notion of “white heritage” are white supremecists.

  63. LM wrote:

    Co-sign with crista #52, Atlasien #58 and Emily #62 as a continuation of my comments #55 (not that they were responding to mine).

  64. Mimi wrote:

    Xenia: “PS If I were black in the US, I would hate the white people, as Malcolm X did”.

    Please go to the official Malcolm X website and read his biography. http://www.cmgworldwide.com/historic/malcolm/about/index.php

    I think it’s a huge discredit to Malcolm X and his important work to bring it down to the base statement that he hated white people. He was one of many people that paved the way for us to be having discussions like this.

    “That same year, Malcolm went on a pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The trip proved life altering. For the first time, Malcolm shared his thoughts and beliefs with different cultures, and found the response to be overwhelmingly positive. When he returned, Malcolm said he had met “blonde-haired, blued-eyed men I could call my brothers.” He returned to the United States with a new outlook on integration and a new hope for the future. This time when Malcolm spoke, instead of just preaching to African-Americans, he had a message for all races.”

  65. Kai wrote:

    Emily, great points. There’s a big difference between ethnic pride and “white” pride (and “racial pride”, but that’s another matter). From what I understand, whiteness has no actual corporeal meaning outside of the context of white supremacism, it’s a socially constructed class defined by the class structure which it serves. It was invented for that purpose and has been modified over the course of history to suit changing socio-political circumstances. In contrast, ethnic pride — Irish pride, Italian pride, Greek pride, Jewish pride, etc — celebrates the positive accomplishments of a cultural lineage, and all the people in that lineage who made positive contributions to their civilization, oftentimes before the modern construction of whiteness even existed.

  66. egypt4 wrote:

    I don’t have “white pride” and would run screaming from anyone who said they did! But I certainly don’t think I need it either.

    I think of my heritage as being a combo of French, Polish, German, and Irish ancestors, though I relate most to one more than the others, because of family ties on that side. I have a sense of being a native New Englander with a liberal Catholic upbringing.

    On another note: I filled out an equal employment card the other day and noted again that people of Middle Eastern descent are lumped with people of European descent. But people of Middle Eastern descent (or appeared Middle Eastern descent, or who appear Muslim, or any combo) face huge discriminimation in the US.

    So counting numbers (which is what those forms do) doesn’t give a sense of the big picture at all.

  67. xenia wrote:

    egypt4–

    I am not naive about politics, and my husband and I both speak Arabic, and he has lived in Egypt. Africans have been enslaved since classical Egyptian times, but they have also held very high positions of power, and they were not the only slaves, as Turks, Caucasians, Slavs and an occasional Italian were also enslaved, and it was no chattel slavery. It’s complicated, and it meant something different for each period of time. As for the color of women in ancient Egyptian representations, you can also turn it around and say blackness is the sign of stronger male power. Aristocratic women were paler, because they were not exposed to the sun. So, you look at race and you find history and class. The US is the same way, but their racism is in some ways more interesting, because it is one of the pillars of the entire society, and everyone is constantly affected by it.

    Power structures, as everywhere, have shifted constantly. Many Egyptians today may hold racist ideas, but it is a fact that most Egyptians are also undeniably mixed: from Circassians to Greeks to Arabs to many-subsaharan Africans, everyone’s family tree is marked by that complex and rich history. You cannot define “the average Egyptian” as white, the appearance of most people denies the firm existence of separate races. So, racism in Egypt is also a form of self-hatred, and it is not the same kind as in the US. In the US, if racism were gone, it would also shake much of the capitalism. Egypt, as a client state to the US, would be capitalist regardless of racism or lack of it. Racism in its current form is an import (older forms may have been different, but they never stopped people from intermarrying). So, the Egyptian racism is not a cornerstone of the society as it is in the US and it is less virulent. You don’t have lynching of Africans as Africans.

    Where I’m from, people found most Scandinavians uglier than blacks, because they could not brown up in the sun, and yet I know many people wouldn’t be happy if a black guy married their daughter (to name the classic nasty petit bourgeois argument). But in my country, blacks were extremely rare before the 20th century, so you can call it a form of peasant stupidity toward anyone who is not from his village. During the war, many girls married blacks, because suddenly blackness meant a good passport and the possibility to emigrate. So, within just a few years, the understanding of race changed.

    In short, sure there is racism in Egypt, but in great part it is influenced by colonialism, by self-hatred, by the inane Lebanese pop culture. I insist that racism, just like anti-Semitism or today’s anti-Arabism, is historical. It is not immutable and it is not eternal. If most refugees from the south were wealthy, there would be few comments about their color of skin.

    Again, if you want to talk about the Lebanese, I would agree that they are very racist…but I do not know if they have always been so either.

  68. FrancesM wrote:

    Wow! Latoya your honesty was so beautiful! I struggle with racism (which I define as prejudice towards individuals & groups based upon notions of race) and wholly identify as an anti-racist activist. I’m guilty of making Jewish jokes. I’m guilty of not being as nice to someone as I could because they were white. I’m guilty of seeing the quote-unquote big black man walking towards me at night & being scared. I’m guilty of seeing people acting out my preconceived notions of them & hating them.

    I’d like to think or at least I hope that my work as an activist & doing tangible works to benefit equality for all humans has helped my racist karma. But what seems to help me most is doing just what you did Latoya- honesty. To admit my prejudice, to admit my mistakes. To admit these things & then actively work towards changing my thoughts & attitudes. If I don’t acknowledge the hate & pain of racism I can’t move past it & help others to do the same.

    The forgiveness & understanding of my own prejudices helped me to feel a little less angry towards those who are or would be racist towards me. That maybe if we all had ways to take action & see racism not only as something that “kinda sucks for some people” but as what I feel it is, a dis-ease of perception, we can really heal ourselves & the world(s) around us.

    So how do we take ACTION? I heard a long time ago that people can’t think their way into right action, but must act their way into right thinking. So far there is no 12 step racism recovery group. There are no prejudice rehab’s. But there are groups like Carmen’s anti-racism group. There is this wonderful website Racialicious & the equally great podcast Addicted to Race that gives folks a chance to listen. And to really listen with all out heart is a great way to take action.

    The price we pay for being honest can be great. So many are afraid of their own feelings. But getting honest with ourselves & then finding the ways to do the real work of erasing racism within & around us does have rewards. The rewards are being able to have that one moment when we look at someone & see the person & not just their skin color. We get moments where we can be satisfied with the freedom knowing ourselves & becoming the people we wish to become. We get to listen (as George Michael would say) without prejudice one moment, one day at a time. We get to know others experiences with race & racism & not shut them down. We get to see folk’s skin not as something that defines a them but adds to their experience.

    Well that’s enough out of me! Peace y’all.
    ~F

  69. Dawn wrote:

    Thanks Latoya:

    I have thought quite a bit about this lately as I try to put my own feelings in perspective. I find on an individual level I do okay, but it’s the “group” think or systematic racism that triggers some pretty angry thoughts that I have held onto over the years. Some picked up from family some developed from observation.

    I just tell myself to try and find a healthy balance, because it really is not all in my head… some folks are racist. However, I remind myself that hatred tends to destroy the one who hates more quickly than the one who is hated. And I am trying to stick around as long as I am supposed to.

  70. squidfly wrote:

    James Baldwin wrote; What did the Irish, the Jews, the Polish and the Italians have to give up in order to be white in America ?
    Racsim was imposed on me, I didn’t seek it.
    I discovered around the age of 10 that white people were always reacting to me, and no matter what, they would always remind me that I was Black.
    I’ve never turned the other cheek, because the white kids I knew would throw a punch.
    I don’t believe in being the teacher to white folks and holding their hands to walk through the scary forest of their race issues.
    I don’t judge my friends on skin color, but nine times out of ten white people will dissapoint and just say something idiotic.
    When it comes to race white people just get stupid, it’s like mad cow disease.
    When the media sidesteps, the comment by the cop in the Larry Craig sting…”I expected someone from the hood to lie” or Lindsay Lohan getting a free pass on “It was the Black Kid” You either make a decison to move on, or internalize the rage and take it out on other people of color, which in turn becomes, intra-racism. POC are under assault in America and in Europe, and you have to decide if you’re in the battle or not, because if you’re not then you better have a great medical Insurance, because the stress, the daily slights and tears of the soul, dealing with White Supremacy will eat at you like a parasite.
    If people push, then you have to push back. I’m not racist but I am a race man. My favorite phrase of the moment is “Speak truth to Power” Because when I speak the Historical truth, then I may sound like a racist.
    The solution, maybe a race Rehab for White folks?

  71. Christopher wrote:

    Please find the Race Traitor article “The White Anti-Racist Is an Oxymoron:
    An Open Letter to “White Anti-Racists””

    I personally believe in the abolition of the concept of whiteness. It was an idea constructed out of imperialism and, like “nigger”, does nothing but invoke ideas of superiority and inferiority and who has a full stake in the enterprises of humanity…

  72. ilana wrote:

    Thank you for this article- I find it truly inspiring that you have undertaken this journey and this introspection. As a Ashkenazi Jew who “passes” I found it very relevant to try to understand why some people f color harbor anti-white sentiments.

    In response to someone’s above comment (I forget who), I think that Whites may be quiet in regard to anti-White racism in anti-racist circles is because they feel that they have no right to complain when other groups have suffered on a much greater scale, historically. Or they may feel they might be judged. I know that I’ve felt this way on occasion.

    Anyway, thanks for a really inspiring and relevant post. I always enjoy Latoya’s articles.

  73. LM wrote:

    @ Christopher… I think many people struggle with is the notion that biology, by itself, is NOT determinant of attitudes, actions, decisions, later in life re: race. Therefore it’s a long, lonely leap for most people in the United States to view the concept of “whiteness” itself can be coincidental to skin color.

    Part of this is that “whiteness,” like the word “racism” has many widely variant meanings to different people, often depending on the context. And that yes, contrary to what I wrote a paragraph ago, skin color is an incredibly important component to “whiteness.”

    The thing is that “whiteness” — the component of racism, not the description of skin color — needs buy-in from us that says skin color along determines things, instead of reactions to the built-in (but often hidden and unspoken) lies of a racist system and structure. So if we support the notion that white people are racist because of their biology (alone), we are supporting the notion of “whiteness,” which in turn justifies other components of racism.

    On a ground-floor level, I guess what I’m saying is that a white man in America does not have to succumb to “whiteness” though most outside observers would see this person as a “white man,” leading to relatively predictable acceptance and rejection based on race when that’s a determining factor. In the end, any changes we’re making — beyond those already in motion — mean we’re acting against the grain of society. This just happens to be one of those areas.

    I’m getting dizzy from all this. This stuff is incredibly taxing to write about coherently (I feel like 75 percent of my ideas at the start of this post starting flying about, and they won’t let me catch them), which is another reason why I admire so much Carmen, Kai, Latoya, Wendi et al. for writing consistently and well.

  74. Michelle wrote:

    #56, “The crushing sense of isolation..” What a tragicaly beautiful comment on what the experience of racism can sometimes feel like.

    Just to add my thoughts and questions…..Other than the experience of being free of having to think about race, ever…is there any thing about being White than POC in America aren’t intimately familiar with? This may seem like a stretch, but I feel that most people of color in America, in order to survive and thrive, must have an intimate understanding of what it means to be white because white-ness equates with normalcy in America. What is there about being White that any person of color couldn’t articulate? I think a case can be made that America’s experience and experiment with freedom was largely based on being able to check an ethnic identity at the door, or rather the portals of Ellis Island, and to become White and thereby fully American. America was the great “equalizer” by becoming one of the first countries in modern history to organize it’s definitions of humanity around race (with the two poles being Black and White) rather than class, birth order, the status of one’s parents, or one’s religion (and I recognize that Jews faced discrimation in America, but certaintly not the level persecution that Jews faced in Russia, Poland, etc.).

    So, I agree with many of the above post and I really believe there is not a White identity, and if there is, I think it equates with being a “real” American. We are all invited to share the culture, we just don’t have the priveledges. However, “White” people are granted full and unquestioned participation in the American dream.

    Lastly, LP, Wendi, Carmen, et al…I would love to see you guys publish a book with all of your articles. It would wonderful!

  75. dnA wrote:

    To whomever posted those old ass minor threat lyrics, you should know that Ian Macaye came around a few years later and realized he wasn’t such a victim…

    From Fugazi’s “Suggestion”:

    Why can’t i walk down a street free of suggestion?
    Is my body the only trait in the eye’s of men?
    I’ve got some skin
    You want to look in
    There lays no reward in what you discover
    You spent yourself watching me suffer
    Suffer you words, suffer your eyes, suffer your hands
    Suffer your interpretation of what it is to be a man

    I’ve got some skin
    You want to look in
    She does nothing to deserve it
    He only wants to observe it
    We sit back like they taught us
    We keep quiet like they taught us
    He just wants to prove it
    She does nothing to remove it
    We don’t want anyone to mind us
    So we play the roles that they assigned us
    She does nothing to conceal it
    He touches her ’cause he wants to feel it
    We blame her for being there
    But we are all guilty

    I may listen to mostly Hip-hop, but I’m still from DC. Don’t try to quote some ignorant ass teenage punk shit from my city and act like that’s the last word.

  76. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    ilana - That is one of those “white perspectives” I am interested in hearing. Jewish people seem to have a set ethnic identity - and yet, are also seen as white, or close to it. I always wondered how does that work? In one sense, Jewish people are like PoCs, in other sense’s they are not. How do you straddle that line? Is there the same kind of mental separation between being Jewish and living in mainstream culture as there is with other ethnic identities? I’m curious…

    Christopher - Thanks for the heads up, I will look for that article.

    Rob - Thanks for the gold star. I’m wondering what you will find to represent my OJ prize ;-)

    Squidfly - Great opening quote.

    Also, re: “I don’t believe in being the teacher to white folks and holding their hands to walk them through the scary forest of race issues.”

    I felt the same way for a long time. I only recently changed my opinion - I mean, as taxing as it can be, there are some people who do care, and want to know, and just lack a start point. So while I’m not going to be a white person’s race-based Cliff’s Notes, I am willing to engage in conversations when I feel like the people are coming from a genuine space.

    re: Race rehab - I don’t think that will work. Just thinking of how celebrity rehab normally goes - it’s not a 30 days and you’re cured kind of thing. It takes commitment and dedication - which most people do not have. The desire has to be there to sincerely change - not just make penance to those you have offended. (I’m looking at you Michael Richards - going on a journey to India isn’t going to fix anything.)

    Mimi - I concur that people need to know the full history of Malcolm X, and not just rely on character generalizations.

    That being said, I do feel that quoting that small bit from his biography is misleading as well. It’s can be interpreted as “oh, he realized the error of his white-hating ways” as opposed to the long spiritual journey he embarked upon.

    When confronted with people who claim Malcolm X is white hating, I ask if people have read his Autobiography. I encourage them to read it to understand the entire thought process of Malcolm X , to learn why he was so beloved, why he held so much rage toward white people, and his struggles as a man to sort things out within himself - which culiminated in him journeying to Mecca and finding a different interpretation of Islamic faith.

  77. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    JC - I do the same thing. And, to be honest, I kind of like the cultural bias because it forces me to work harder to find the gems that are not covered by mainstream outlets. I feel like that kind of bias is on par with trying to show support to smaller mom & pop shops, instead of the huge mega-corporations.

    However, I did find myself discounting legitimate things (like art exhibits) because the artists were white, so I brought myself around out of that. I still support more PoC activities, gallery openings, and films, but I will not automatically discount films/art/etc that detail the “white experience.” If it’s good, it’s good - I’m trying to make sure that is all that matters to me.

  78. LM wrote:

    dnA,

    Didn’t know jack about Ian Macaye before your post — and I’m from D.C. too. So thank you.

    But I don’t understand why you refer to Benjamin’s quoted lyrics as an attempted “last word.”

  79. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Colin -

    “I don’t understand; are you saying here that your anti-racist activities were part and parcel with your anti-white prejudice?”

    That they are.

    Sounds strange, I know.

    I was searching for a place that race was discussed intelligently and openly. I had kind of exhausted many of the mainstream black outlets for race based conversation - I mean, I grew up on that, so the discussions were starting to go in circles. So, I was looking for something different.

    I came across Racialicious, and was amazed. I liked the differing perspectives, I liked the discussions, and I liked the podcast.
    As I listened, I learned more and more about the struggles of other PoCs.

    Now, I had long wanted to find a political kind of movement that united people of color - I feel like we share a lot of the same goals, and there are petty differences that keep us divided. So, I was glad Racialicious was run by two-mixed race girls, and they were dedicated to sharing collective experiences with racism.

    I enjoyed being on a forum, and being able to learn about the issues others face. I had no idea about the model minority myth. I had never given a thought to Asian American sexuality. I did not really think about racism abroad. I did not know where to find information. Now, I do.

    However, if Racialicious was dominated by white voices trying to understand “the (fill in racial/ethnic group) experience” I would not be here. However, since Jen and Carmen were running things, I sent a letter offering my help.

    And here we are today.

    I should also mention that I really did not notice white people on this forum, which was refreshing to me. We weren’t bogged down in discussions about why race is relevant, we just got to stick and move. It wasn’t until I was reading consistently for almost a year (around the time MMW switched to Racialicious) that I realized there were white people on this blog.

    In the audience.

    And they weren’t acting like assholes.

    So, that played a kind of key role in me starting to re-evaluate how I viewed white people.

    I started writing about race in hopes to unite PoCs, in hopes that our sharing our struggles would result in collective action.

    I am now here, wondering. I am still looking for action, but I think the dialogue is equally as important. I want to foster conversations, but not ones that are exclusionary. I want to push boundaries and ideas. And I don’t want to be guilty of what I fight to eradicate.

    Hope that makes sense…

  80. gatamala wrote:

    I may listen to mostly Hip-hop, but I’m still from DC. Don’t try to quote some ignorant ass teenage punk shit from my city and act like that’s the last word.

    Fugazi!!

    *genuflects*

  81. Jason wrote:

    I agree with Kai, I don’t believe that anti-white sentiments are “racist” or a form of racism. Personally, I feel like equating the two is problematic because it plays into the “reverse racism” paradigm it equalizes the anger (and experiences) that racialized people may have toward white folks/white supremacist structures with white supremacist sentiments – they are not the same. The difference is that anti-asian, anti-native, anti-black, anti-arab et. al. statements are never just prejudiced or bigoted statements/ behaviours because they have been systemically, culturally, politically, and historically, enforced and supported by the dominant culture. To say they are the same negates the reality of the far-reaching effects that institutionalized forms of prejudice and discrimination (i.e. racism) have on poc.

    Maybe when white folks have say, I don’t know um… 500 years and counting of systemic domination, exploitation, and genocide affecting all areas of their lives and whatever level of discrimination they face today - then maybe I’ll believe that anti-white sentiments are “racist”.

    I also feel like it pathologizes the rage of racialized people our anger has no context no history or we are just inherently bitter or oversensitive there is no complexity to that rage, to those feelings of mistrust, to that internalized pain/frustration -we’re just perpetually angry. The issue is reduced to individualized narratives of “personal accountability” which are more often then not are one-sided because they over focus on what’s negative about the behaviour which is of course removed from the social context or any structural aspect.

    I also believe the idea that because poc express “anti-white” attitudes, that makes us hypocritical is disingenuous -do we have to qualify as perfect in order to be considered deserving enough to critique white culture /institutions? The idea plays into the dominant culture where because poc are (reverse) racists too then white folks can opt out of dealing with “racism” why bother?

    There are very few spaces (if any) to question the complexity and the range of our feelings without self-censoring or worrying about whether how we choose to express our feelings will upset the comfort levels of white folks. I’m just saying if we can agree that whatever conscious or subconscious investments/beliefs white folks have in white supremacy are complex then why wouldn’t the range of feelings poc have towards white folks be complex - given the history I think we need to look at how those feelings, experiences, attitudes, etc. can affect whatever capacity we have to deal with the reality of racism in our lives. Plus I subscribe to the bell hooks school of thought I totally agree with her argument about the transformative aspects of [black] rage and how one dimensional misrepresentations of rage [expressed by poc] maintain the status quo [they dilute and censor militant response]

    I also don’t get why this topic is so taboo, in most anti-racist spaces I’ve been in it’s pretty common along w/ whiteness/white privilege etc. (but then those spaces were never poc dominated anyway…)

  82. rebecca m wrote:

    I think Jews, (at least Ashkenazi Jews) have conflicted feelings about race for those very reasons.

    As a child I always felt like a liar when I had to fill in the “white” bubble on standardized tests, because I felt different. I’ve since realized that countless friends felt the same way.

    I think another part of it is that Jews weren’t just persecuted in Europe, they were seen as the “threatening weird dark people”. (Yes, Jews come in all shades and colors, but your average Jewish person has a much higher chance of dark eyes, dark hair, and olive skin than your average Polish or Russian person.

    And then Jews came to America, and within a generation came to be seen as white. I suspect this leads some to be racist (as a way of proving whiteness) and others to feel awfully guilty about having this privilege when other groups lack it. One the other hand, should Jews have refused white privilege? Honestly, I don’t think they could have if they tried. It wasn’t so much a matter of that generation worming their way in so much as suddenly realizing that the definition had changed around them and they were suddenly “inside.” However, I think there is still a fear sometimes that this will be temporary.

    Complicating things further, Judaism is both something people are born into, and that people not born into can adopt. So then people ask if it’s a race or ethnicity or religion. The answer is somewhere in the murky space of “yes, all of the above and none of the above”. So that leads to more confusion.

    Add to that as well a lot of labeling Jews a separate race, “Semites” was the work of the intellectual forbears of Nazis and the Nazis themselves, leading many Jews to want to put some solid distance between themselves and any unique racial identity.

    I’m simplifying and leaving things out, I know. It’s such a complicated subject, and I’m only starting to figure it out.

    As for me, I try to separate race and ethnicity. My understanding of race is that it’s a concept imposed by society (and a strong, pervasive one at that.) When people see me, they see white, and I get most white privilege, so I identify as white, because other’s ID me as such.

    My ethnicity is what *I* am, and that is Jewish.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if these definitions don’t work as well for others, especially people who have had their family’s original ethnicity stolen and erased, and have had to create a new one over the generations. I’d be interested in hearing how other people relate to and use these terms.

  83. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Jason -

    I believe the crux of your argument depends on the definition of racism, which we have generally agreed to postpone until we can create a new conversation dedicated specifically to that topic. Operating from different definitions of racism isn’t really serving this discussion…

    Still, I agree with some of your sentiments. However, I disagree with the idea that acknowledging a flaw is such a debilitating act that it would paralyze intelligent anti-racist conversation and thought.

    If there are white people who would twist those experiences and use it to dimiss arguments against racism, then they are free to do so. Something tells me that they would not be the type of people I sought out for conversation anyway.

    You also mentioned: “There are very few spaces (if any) to question the complexity and the range of our feelings without self-censoring or worrying about whether how we choose to express our feelings will upset the comfort levels of white folks. ”

    Is that the impression you got from what I wrote? Fascinating. I think anti-white sentiment needs to be addressed; I do not think that equates to self-censorship. I do not think that equates to making these kinds of conversations “white friendly.” However, I do think there is something more than a little ironic about embracing the exclusionary behavior we vent about in the white mainstream.

    And a quick note on:
    “I also don’t get why this topic is so taboo, in most anti-racist spaces I’ve been in it’s pretty common along w/ whiteness/white privilege etc. (but then those spaces were never poc dominated anyway…)”

    I have never seen this topic addressed in a space where I participate. However, due to my anti-white bias, I probably skipped over these groups. I did not (and to some extent, still do not ) see the need to participate in groups for racial equality that were not run by PoCs - again, no skin in the game.

    However, if you could point me toward some of those spaces, I would be much obliged.

    [I wonder, as a side note, if what I am experiencing now is the same relecutance white bloggers feel when asked to find bloggers of color. There is a sense of loathing, a preconceived notion of the trite bullshit that’s going to be there, and while I could probably google my way to some anti-racist sites, I would rather ask another PoC for recommendations. I am assuming that another PoC could steer me in a direction that is at least palatable. Kai, Carmen - I know you touched on this in this week’s podcast. Do you agree?]

    Like I said - there is worth in exploring and challenges and these types of sentiments, even if we feel justified making them. At the very least, it helps to understand the mindset where these thoughts stem from, and help to generate ideas on how to deconstruct such thought paradigms.

  84. LM wrote:

    I agree with the distinction made by Kai (#12) and Jason (#81) between “anti-white” prejudice from people of color versus prejudice from whites against others — because of the history and disparate impact in this country (in particular). I don’t agree that this distinction means anti-white prejudice or actions isn’t “racism.” That single word, powerful though it may be, is limited and should only be a starting point. (For example, adding “institutional” usually makes for sufficient differentiation.)

    I’m not closed to further discussion on that (in a different post), but I think it misses the point.

    I think Carmen is onto something by framing anti-white prejudice as part of the overall system (CVK, I hope I’m not oversimplifying). Whether that makes it the same thing as white racism, I don’t know, but if it helps perpetuate the system it ought to be questioned.

    Anti-white prejudice to me is perfectly understandable. And there’s plenty of gray area as to what falls into that category. For the most part, I think white people who see/experience what they think is anti-white prejudice should keep their mouths shut.

    The broad exceptions are physical danger — in which case it really doesn’t matter why it’s happening (when it happens, at least) — and when you’re close enough (physically, emotionally, in the community) to have a civil dialogue with the perceived offender. Emphasis on “civil.” Otherwise, chalk it up as a bad day. If you think no one should experience such a bad day, you’re right. But… so what. Each of our individual bad experiences on their own aren’t such a big deal unless they’re part of a much bigger reality, and one of the frustrating things about many white people when they talk about race is that they “report” on a small sample.

    The thing is, this same logic can apply to any group, and what can easily happen with anti-white prejudice is that is becomes self-fulfilling, even past the point of “truth” — whatever that may be for each of us individually. The moment I decide I can’t be “racially comfortable” (nice phrase, gatamala) with white people, well, the more likely I won’t be. To me that’s different from simply noticing discomfort and keeping my senses open to the reasons. It might be me, it might not. But either way, I still have the power to make judgments for myself on each individual I meet — it’s not that hard; I don’t need to have decided ahead of time.

    Going back to the distinction made by Kai and Jason, ultimately I think its usefulness breaks down in describing and deciding on individual conduct because it practically assumes a biological difference in the way individuals in the oppressor group (whites) respond to society’s “programming” versus the way individuals in the oppressed group (people of color) do. I don’t see that. It f___s with all of us to the point where smart people must have this conversation. Even without all the individual BS, we’d still be fighting institutional racism — the positional status of whites — but that can’t be done separate from ground-level, individual work too. Otherwise, to paraphrase Latoya in the previous comment, we’ll continue to decide our roles in the game based on our skin.

    (Praying for fewer misspellings and sentence fragments than in my previous comments…)

  85. hel wrote:

    Thank you. As a white person this is something I struggle with and don’t know how to address. On the one hand I feel ashamed and clumsy because I know that whatever I say may well be the wrong thing.

    On the other hand I feel defensive because why am I apologising for myself without being able to be proud to just be the me that I am when I am with white people.

    Your post was the first that made me feel like there is a way I can pick my way through the mire of possible misunderstandings and still feel ok to be me.

    Thank you.

  86. Chani wrote:

    Very good article… and I admit that I’ve struggled with some of these issues.

    I am a Caucasian who identifies culturally with Asians. Some of my closest friends teasingly call me “the blue-eyed Thai girl.”

    I do have a bias when it comes to white people, as much as I hate to admit it.

    Over time, I’m coming to realize that while they’re not mutually exclusive, I haven’t considered that my bias is actually about culture rather than race.

    Examining history, you can find all races creating bad cultures.

    Maybe it’s a starting point to deconstructing all of this? It would be interesting to read your thoughts.

    Peace,

    ~Chani
    http://thailandgal.blogspot.com

  87. Ange wrote:

    @ squidfly. I agree!

    I was raised in Jamaica by parents who taught me that , white people were inferior and therefore insignificant, and the reason they were filled with so much hate, is because they knew this. I neither love, nor hate white people, I mostly don’t think about them, I just always assume that inspite of all the money and class they think they have, they are still mostly the decendants of the dregs out of Europe. A white male who I thought was a friend, ended the friendship,(he didn’t like my way of thinking) when I shared this information about myself. In my experience white people cannot handle, PoC who don’t like them, because you know, how dare you ?!

  88. Ange wrote:

    I meant to write: I just assume that inspite of all the money and class they think they have, they don’t know any better. After all they are mostly the decendants of the dregs of Europe.

  89. jayjay wrote:

    I think that anti-white sentiment crosses a line when it stops being the expression of grievance about the actions of white people and becomes a generalization that plays into the racial definitions created by white supremacists. I think that the fact that white supremacists created the racial definitions we have in America is one that we should remain aware of. From this it follows that being proud of being non-white is almost always a legitimate anti-racist response to the lies being spread about ones people and being proud of being white is racist. White people invented their whiteness in order to oppress and one ought not to take pride in that.

    Someone mentioned earlier that taking pride in “western civilization” was crypto-racist, and I’m still struggling with that one. I studied western classics in college and suppose that I identify with that tradition, and may even have thought I was proud to be a product of it. Perhaps I was wrong to do so. I think that the “west” (which is bad taxonomy anyways) has always been bigger than “whiteness” and has always included POC, and it has only been in the last few centuries that it has been completely whitewashed. I’m also a little nervous about saying that white people should have ethnic instead of racial pride, since I think ethnic pride can be almost as problematic.

  90. LM wrote:

    Damn, jayjay, that first paragraph was words I wished I had said myself. Thank you.

  91. Christopher wrote:

    Latoya,
    Great post. I have at times found it hard negating racist thoughts within myself at times because of my environment and family. For the most part growing up in a racially diverse neighborhood all my friends were of different colors, but as I grew up I could tell some differences and lines that could not be crossed and barriers that could not be breached. To be honest I am still working towards eliminating a lot of my racist thoughts because at some points the thoughts even come down to racism against African Americans as well because of the way society has evolved at this point and it seems as though we are taking steps back.

    I would like to say that I’ve made a valiant effort in doing what needs to be done in order to overcome those thoughts with my expression in poetry as well as creating a facebook group dedicated to the uplifting and uniting of African Americans and maybe in one way helping to understand my perspective a little better. I would also like to thank you for this post as it has helped me feel better knowing that there are more people taking active roles as I have to control thoughts that may be trying to control them.

  92. Jackie wrote:

    I just wanted to say thank you for such a great article, I would really love to read your other blogs. I’ve been experiencing a lot since moving to Utah, and that was 4 or 5 years ago, 2 years of which I escaped to NYC, and now I’m back again, because it’s been so complex and difficult to work through my feelings about being here.

  93. Briana wrote:

    Hello. =) I enjoyed reading the post and comments. Although my overall perspective and experiences are different. I am classified as white, although I prefer to call myself “European American”. It’s just a personal preference. It gives me reassurance that I am not just a stereotype, an image, or a race, but that I am cultured as well. (unfortunately most Americans do not refer to white Americans as being European).

    I cannot say I understand the experiences of minorities in America, just as many of them cannot understand mine. But I would like to mention a few things.

    It is uncomfortable amongst many whites (though not all) to discuss race. Not because we are uneducated in these matters, but because they are uncomfortable for us. For instance.

    -People tend to have this idea about whites as a whole. A white bias, you might say. Many of us fall entirely short of that idea people have of us; that image, and when we become stereotyped it hurts just as much as it would for a non-white to be stereotyped by a white person.

    I grew up in an industrialized city that was infested with racism. But not in the way that you would think.

    One would not be so quick to think that a white would be the victim of racism throughout their childhood and adult years. Nevertheless, it is an issue I dealt with all the years of my life, and continue to deal with, and not because I went out of my way to notice, but because the ideas of other people were often times forced upon me.

    Growing up, my parents taught me the importance of equality. We understood racial issues, but did not engage in them, because coming from the belief that people should only be judged as individuals, racial issues are often times challenging to get into, for fear of being offended by what some one might say, or saying the wrong thing. Some times, things that are said are simply taken the wrong way.

    When I was growing up, I did not have many non white friends. When I did, my non white friends were discouraged hanging out with me by their other friends who were non white, and they were told that if they hung out with me, they were a sell out and they would not associate with them. (Of course that changed with time). This was not because I, (or any of my other friends) purposely secluded ourselves from every one else, but because we were pushed away by everyone else.

    I grew up being thrown into trash cans by older African American men and being called “white trash”. I was told my people breed with dogs and that we all looked like beasts. I listened to how ugly I was, and how I had no shape (although I think times have changed for me, I was 12 when I was being told such things.) I was told that if a member of my race died, it was no loss but more so, a worthy contribution to the bettering of this country, and planet. I was told that our deaths did not matter, and that there should be more. I was told that what I learned in school about my people were lies and that we had never really contributed anything important to society. I could not walk down the street without a confrontation, because I was white, so I held my head down. I was ashamed of myself, because I LET what other people say get to me. It’s not much of an excuse, but being a child, who would want to grow up hearing these things? -Especially by other kids who were being taught hatred BY their parents.

    Race was certainly not an issue I wanted to engage in. After years of dealing with the same experiences, violence I did not start, and their justifying it for my being white, it really caused a lot of anger within me. It was not until about a year or two ago that I’d started to get seriously angered by the issue of race in America, and the racial stereotype I was associated with. “Rich, slutty, easy, white, stuck up, non cultured, ugly female”. People said these things without knowing me. Had they known me, they might have been interested to find that I grew up nearly homeless, with a large family, and my parents did the best they could for us. It was not that they didn’t try, and it was not that they were financially irresponsible. But for many years we grew up poor, abused by the system that was said to privilege us.

    As I got deeper into racial issues, I began to see the views of others about members of my own race. I discovered that the things I heard, I did not like in the least. At this, I became enraged. How could people hate me because of the color of my skin? How could people assume something about me because of the color my skin appeared to be? What’s more, is that apparently I had no color. I was not beautiful. I was not unique. I was shapeless, colorless, and without anything to be proud of. I was “just like everybody else”. My culture was not worth learning.

    I was called “Nazi” for being German American. I was called cracker, honky, and many other offensive names. To many whites, racism is stereotyping anyone, or disliking them, or holding bias to them because of their race. To many non whites, however, racism could only be associated with whites. We were the only racists. Can you imagine being in my shoes, being told by your parents to love everybody, and not to judge them, no matter how much they’ve judged you, and to be forgiving, and to see all people as equals? <—When the same people demanding it, did not see you as their equal? Nevertheless I always believed we were equals, and still do till this day, although I won’t pretend this doesn’t bother me. (I am in fact, engaged to an Asian American man, and we’re having a child together in less than 5 weeks). =)

    Many whites look at the past and the way our people are portrayed, and are ashamed. We should not be. We’re not responsible for our ancestors mistakes. We do not wish to bring it up because many of us have had no part in it. In fact, with slavery for instance, (and I have written record of this in my family) my entire family immigrated to America from Switzerland, France, Germany, Scotland, Ireland, and England, and had taken no part in slavery. Also, many of my ancestors had not yet arrived in America during the time of slavery. Many were also discriminated against (like the Irish, and the German as well, being associated with Nazism).

    It is sad to many of us that we should be judged and associated with others, simply because we share a similar pigmentation in skin. Are we not all created equal under God? There are a lot of good people who are hated and are not tolerated, simply because they are a certain color, and that specific color comes with a label a stereotype.

    And I surely did not grow up understanding and experiencing white privilege, as many whites have not. My family was once considered to be a part of the “invisible white poverty” group in America. We no longer fall under that category today, but it took years upon years to get out of that point in our life. Our people did not want to help us. Nobody did. Everyone assumed we were better off for being white. During the winter when the temperature was below 0 and there was no gas in our house, we were constantly sick, and we did not have running water because of frozen pipes. If we bathed it had to be somewhere else. The school donated food and clothing to us during our struggles and we overcame them. We had not benefited from health care of any sort and were poorly neglected.

    So growing up, it angered me to be told that I had benefit in this country for my skin color, when I was treated just like any ordinary person, if not worse.

    What’s more is that I was told by non whites that the only reason my family could ever be poor, was if my mother was a crack whore and my father an alcoholic drunk, though neither drank, nor did drugs. People tend to assume whites are in harsh situations because of their own mistakes.

    There is an issue growing in this country. There are many issues, but one that affects me greatly, and has affected me all of my nearly 20 years of life, and that is “anti-white-bias”. That is how I found this blog. To my surprise, it did not anger me, but I felt that I could add my piece. It is a separate idea, looking in from the other side of the glass. Instead being the victim of social majority racism, I come from a background of experiencing anti-white attitude. It hurts just as bad. Especially to be associated with things that you have not been responsible for. Such as racism. We came on over from Europe, and here we were practically being accused of being slave owners. It’s all very hard to deal with, and it’s a touchy topic. I’d like to discuss racial issues, but there are many that are not discussed simply for not being a popular idea. I am trying to become more comfortable discussing things. Although not everyone will entirely agree with me, I hope that you do not mind my response. I only wanted to contribute a view from a different stand point. Thank you. =)

  94. Anonymous wrote:

    I’m of mixed heritage, including European heritage and I’m pretty terrified by your statement and various comments from others. I’m very proud of everything that I am, including European. Europeans are highly diverse, cultured, wonderful human beings who have contributed just as much good AND bad as anyone else on Earth. They are beautiful. So much hatred, racism and suspicion towards hundreds of millions of people who all look, act, speak and behave differently, from all corners of the world… with all sorts of various cultures, ideas, languages and so on… all because they originated in Europe, part of a larger continent located right above the one you originated from. So many beautiful people in the world who you purposely and willingly exclude yourself from. And so many hateful and false words about them when you know nothing about them. How terrible! I pity you and some of the commenters, I truly do. You are a massive part of the problem and most certainly one of the many reasons that hate and distrust of different races/ethnicities still exists today and will continue to exist on Earth, long after all of us and all of our children are dust. Thankfully, I do not know anyone of ANY ethnic background or nationality who behaves or thinks in such a manner. After reading this page, I definitely consider myself blessed to not have to hear or deal with such hatred in my life.

    In answer to your question… my personal opinion is that being anti-”white” IS most certainly racist. Being anti-”white” is just as bad as being anti- any other group. And you can be rest assured that I am not alone in my view. I think it would be safe to assume from my life experiences, travels, conversations and what I’ve read and seen in my life… that my opinion is the opinion of the international majority. Which is clearly a good thing.

    Take care, I sincerely hope that someday you are freed of your constant suspicion and hatred towards people who have done nothing to harm you and have no ill-will towards you or anyone like you. It must be a very emotionally draining and painful life to feel such things on a daily basis. You are in my thoughts.

  95. Jaine wrote:

    Thanks Latoya for your insightful blog.
    As a white person, I think that some white folk get guilt about racism and they simple don’t have, and wont work on getting, the tools to deal with it. Guilt can be debilitating but it must never be used as an excuse for inaction. I started being involved in anti-racism when I was a teen on an anti-apartheid march, yet I was unaware and ignorant to the racism inflicted on PoC in my own country. As far as I knew racism happened in places like South Africa and America - not in NZ where every thing was rosy. Well everything has never been rosy for PoC in NZ. Things arn’t getting better either, the same issues that faced my Maori friends at High School in the 8Os still face my daughter (bi-racial) today. Ironically, when I was at University, and I became involved in the Marae, and learnt more about NZ history and our treatment of NZs indigenous people and immigrants, I began to mistrust other white people. This was also because I often found discussing NZs race relations with other white people futile, just like you mention in your blog. I don’t have all the answers, but some of us (white folk) are interested in open and true dialogue and actively working against racism in what ever ways we can.

  96. A. wrote:

    Anonymous - and Non- white people aren’t varied and diverse?

    That’s your problem.

    The problem is that racism exists to a large effect in this country. While you’re attempting to imply that “YOU NEED TO CHANGE,” while that may be true, it’s not going to mean crap because we will be back to Square One - a racist system that, either subtly or blantantly, treats non-whites as “the other”, “foreign” or “second-class citizens.”

    So, you are qualified to speak on the international majority? This makes me laugh. Really now, you’re in such a position where you can make that distinction?

  97. latorquemada wrote:

    This is a really late reply, but I’ve heard this complaint before as expressed by egypt4:

    “Oh, I so agree with this. I cringe, sometimes, when I read comments like those made by that guy Brad in the Titus post. The thing that bugs me is how it always becomes about them, the white person.”

    And I wonder if sometimes this is the result of a cultural difference in what it’s acceptable to express. I’ve observed that in white culture, *especially* liberal white culture, the idea that the only experience you can comment on or share is your own is very strong. You’re not allowed to comment on anyone else’s experience — this is what is meant when people say they are “nonjudgemental.” So the dialog goes something like this: Person A says “I had this experience.” Person B, trying to express sympathy says “I had this similar experience.” Which is then often interpreted as Person B saying their experience was “as bad” (or whatever the prevailing criteria of authenticity happens to be) as Person A’s experience. Then Person A thinks Person B is self-centered when what she was trying to do was not presume to comment on your experience since she has no standing to do so.

  98. Patricia Tomlin wrote:

    Wow, finally a PoC who recognizes that racism runs both ways. More power to you! Being white, I have been the victim of anti-white racism both in the US and abroad. Being marginalized sucks, no matter what your skin color. I live and work in a cross cultural setting in Asia and I have come to realize that people are people, there are good and bad no mater what the race, creed or color. For what it is worth, I have been guilty of the “ignore-race-and racism-will-go-away” brand of stupidity. I humbly apologize. This was the first blog I have read on Racilicious and I think that this could be the place where an intelligent, sensitive, socially progressive, if white republican, woman might find some kindred souls. Thanks for being open to the dialogue.

  99. Anonymous wrote:

    excellent piece, thank you.

  100. Anonymous wrote:

    it’s a tug of war
    what with one thing and another
    it’s a tug of war
    we expected more
    but with one thing and another
    we were trying to out do eachother
    in a tug of war
    in another world
    we could stand on top of the mountain
    with both our flags unfurled
    in a time to come
    we will beat dancing to the beat played on a different drum

  101. Blond Jewish guy wrote:

    I humbly submit: Suggested reading for all here: “Guns, Germs and Steel,” by Jared Diamond. Yes, a white guy wrote it. I stand by it and for PoC, i think you will get something from it.

    Thick. Both the book and the issue we’re discussing.

    As my poster name suggests, I appear anglo due to blondish hair and 1/4 norweigan heritage (, of which i know next to nothing and have no pride in) but come from a jewish cultural vibe and upbringing (without the actual religion.)

    I feel, much like Brianna above, to be in the minority experience of white people in america. That said, i understand that even with all I’m about to say, i could be seen as guilty here of focusing on my white experience instead of the overall picture.

    Please give me that though, as it may be enlightening. And pertinent to the conversation.

    And i understand i look white, and therefore cannot know how much that makes life easier for me than PoC. I honor that as fact, not just lip service to win you over to me in any way.

    My grandparents were born in The Ukraine and being jewish, got out just in time. Once in n america, and once he reached his late teens, my grandfather spent years in jail in the 20’s and 30’s Los Angeles, as a labor union organizer fighting for better working conditions for people of all races in the working class. He also met with Cesar Chavez and helped lead strikes for immigrant farm workers in Central California. He broke into the ‘32 Olympics in LA to protest the wrongful imprisoning of another labor union organizer. Later, in the 80’s, he met with Jessie Jackson. (He also, late in life, formed a Gray Panther movement for giving older folks a voice, where he lived in the Bay Area.) For his younger days, he got shot at along with a thick FBI file along with all the jail time and was followed for years, only getting citizenship late in life.

    In general, my upbringing, the conversations my childs mind grew up around were extremely distrusting of anglo whites, america in general, and all about racial fairness AND class fairness. Our family had a wide range of differently hued friends and that seemed normal for me.

    Add to this that I was raised in San Francisco and Berkeley, CA in the late 60’s and 70’s. The school system I went to was one of, if not the first in the country to teach much more of the real history of the country, not HIStory. We got Malcom X day off, not just MLK. We even got International Women’s day off, but i digress. Point being, I come from an experience, in every way shape and form, different than the vast majority of whites in america. Yet, i look like the average white guy.

    I’ve done childcare for years, not a place where you’ll find many white guys. I always loved kids and maybe that’s because I’ve always appreciated kids’ colorblindness and honesty. I studied child development and I know both from my observations and life than kids are colorblind when very young. As my “rainbow coalition” of friends as a young white boy disbanded slowly, it occured to me that it was not my liberal white family that broke up those friendships, but peer pressure from the older black and latino communities for their kids not to hang out with the white kid. The black Panther movement was starting in next door Oakland right then and it was just a lot of (rightful) black anger finally being able to be expressed. I was one good white boy caught up in that anger. I understood this being from the family i came from, but it still hurt. I call it “current white people paying the karmic tab for past white people’s sins.”

    Along those lines, I, like Briana, while being completely open and supportive of all people, even defending their hatred towards me while being called cracker, whitey, white boy etc, all in hateful tones, was put into a unique position. I certainly didn’t like the physical beatings, guns held to my head and general school experience, all by blacks and latino young men picking me out almost always due to my appearance, but I defended them while they were messing with me because I came from a political family that understood and defended PoC anger. To this day, from being beaten up in school bathrooms, i pee in stalls whenever i can. I know, boo hoo. :) nothing compared to what PoC experience, but i think you’ll give me, quite different than the average white guy’s experience.

    It wasn’t until years later I actually saw that this wasn’t right and said something about it. But when i did, i was still accused of not getting it.

    I was now ripe for “turning racist back,” but instead remain a person who sees all of this ugliness with perspective. In other words, i know it is the minority experience for white guys. I’m just saying, perhaps selfishly, that there are those white guys like us out there. And we are saddened and exhausted by, that in almost every social situation, we are assumed racist until proven otherwise. That we have to preface everything we talk about with race, with minutes of proving we come from a good heart.

    It’s thick.

    One thing else. I don’t understand why any of us have to feel pride in our color or nationality? I defend it more in non white people, who do so in direct response to white arrogance and racism. But even then, and i know it sounds idealistic and perhaps naive, but isn’t that all one step away from what gets us in these problems to begin with? Isn’t racially based pride akin to nationalism and blind patriotism?

    Again, i know it’s easy for me, a jewish guy who looks white, to say that. I admit i cannot understand PoC’s experience and that pride could be a life line in our racist culture.

    I have come to understand my story is so in the minority experience for people who look like me that it just has to be a faint footnote in all of our struggle to find peace, both internally and between one another.

    And I am encouraged to hear some of the ponderings and self challenging many PoC are asking of themselves here.

    Deep breaths help me in these crazy days. And, Go Obama!

  102. Mogs wrote:

    i know this is REALLY late but I’ve just got to respond to this comment by LM, #55:
    “On the concept of “white pride” (Latoya #49): I think there’s no such thing, except as a racist response to the concept of “black” or any other racial/ethnic pride, which tends to spring from completely different contexts. So no one ought try to co-opt “white pride” from white supremacist groups.

    This isn’t to say that a white person has nothing to be proud of… but it isn’t of being white. It’s also not to say white people should be ashamed of being white.”

    That statement is extremely hypocritical. If any race has the right to be proud of itself, then every race has the right to be proud. Anything less is racism.

    Honestly, I don’t really care that I’m white. If I’m proud of anything, it’s being an American. But anyone who thinks we should not “try to coopt white pride from white supremeacists” needs to think again. I’m sure i don’t need to tell you how worthless those Nazi wannabe fools are. So why anyone thinks an entire race of people should just stand by and let a small contingent of despicable people who missed the train for the third reich and now need to get lives, completely take over our racial pride, I really don’t know. Basically you are saying, let those skinheads represent your race. Um, no thanks. I don’t have to let those crazy paranoid racist whiners represent me. If ever i feel the desire to express pride in being white, i should be able to do so without automatically being labeled racist. Just “not being ashamed” would be fine, if other races weren’t encouraged to express pride in their racial identities.
    so i suppose this is a bit ironic right here… i’ve never cared about my racial identity before, and now when someone tells me i shouldn’t be proud of it, i become furious. it just seems really unjust to me, is all. not in a harmful way but definitely in an annoying way.

    Oh, and as for having pride in a specific nationality… umm… a lot of white people really don’t know. If your ancestors have been in the Americas for between 400 and 100 years, when you start having ancestors from more than twenty countries, things tend to get a bit fuzzy.

  103. dt wrote:

    To put what the previous commenter said so well in a different way, “Black pride” is being proud of being a member of a group that has survived racism and oppression for hundreds of years based on their racial group.

    White pride is being proud of being member of a group that has created racism and oppression for others to increase their own privileges, based on their racial group.

    If Black people didn’t face any challenges as a group I wouldn’t have Black pride, I’d just have Jamaican pride. If Jamaican people hadn’t faced challenges as a group either, I wouldn’t find pride in that portion of my identity, either.

    There ain’t nothing to be proud of in being white, because as a group the only thing that unites white people is oppressing others to NOT face any challenges (having to figure out how many water fountains to build on the golf course is NOT a challenge). This is not to say that white people don’t face challenges, but the reason for their challenges is not because of their racial group — it’s because of their ethnic groups, their class status, their religions, etc. - and (most of) those are all fine things to take pride in.

  104. Whitney wrote:

    I should not have to pay for the atrocities committed by people of my color, atrocities that happen in the present, recent past, and far past.

    I am not responsible for their actions.

    thank you for being so open and honest with us, on this website.

    I think that’s one thing that we all need to realize, is that our race or ethnicity or whatever you want to call it, cannot be controlled.

    The one thing we can control is how we act. If we are surrounded by racist ideas, words, and actions, it is our duty to ignore them and move past them. Or like you did, find an outlet and understand, and attempt to understand.

    It really, really, really upsets me with what you wrote, how you were basically taught to mistrust white people. I know there are a lot of racist sons of bitches out there, and a lot of them are white, but it really makes my stomach hurts that that kind of judgement is passed onto me simply because of my skin color. However, it isn’t your fault.

    I really don’t think that many people stop and think about what it’s like for white people. To assume that all white people are racist is a racist belief. We are not all racists. We do not all think alike. I do not appreciate being compared with people who are.

    How do you think it makes me feel, knowing that people hate me, simply because of what I am, what I look like? They don’t know me, you don’t know my family. My grandfather was a German Czech Jew who had to leave everything behind and escape his life because Hitler declared that Jews were subhuman. And he exterminated six million of them. How many of those were family members, I will never know. All I know, is that when I was taking a Holocaust literature class, I finally began to understand what my grandfather went through. I was reading “Maus” (a graphic novel), and it just hit me that when my grandfather went back and liberated Dachau with the US Army, to see his people suffering and piles of dead bodies, of people he could have known….. I could go on.

    I might not have experience racism like he did, but I know it.

    People who are anti-white are no better than the people who were anti-Jew, anti-black, etc. Carmen is right, it is a form of racism that needs to be recognized by everyone. I am not responsible for the things that happened in the past.

    Once again, thank you for this post. Thank you for acknowledging what you did, and so eloquently. Hopefully more people will take your lead.

    BTW, many white people are afraid to express their opinions on race because they’re afraid of being called a racist, because there are a lot of people who are anti-white. Just throwing that out there.

  105. dt wrote:

    I disagree, Whitney. I think it’s entirely possible to be anti-racist and anti-white, and there’s a huge difference between being anti-white and being anti-black.

    Namely, it’s the oppression. Racism and bigotry are two different things. It’s bigoted to think things about people because of their race regardless of whether you’re drawing conclusions because they’re black or white. But racism is the systematic oppression of a group based on their race, and whites are not victims of racism in the western world. Period. The bigotry against people of color exists as a result of and a justification for racism, but they are different concepts, and it is possible to eliminate one without the other.

    If people of color ran the world and decided to make white people our “niggers” then it would be racist against whites, but there’s no chance of that happening in the next few centuries at least, so that’s just a bizarre thought experiment.

  106. Jacqueline wrote:

    “Wow, finally a PoC who recognizes that racism runs both ways.”

    Look, I understand that some things just slip out in a way people might not intend them to, but wow, just WOW.

    The last couple comments on this article were….. interesting. It’s not that I haven’t heard these view points before, or that I can’t see where the posters are coming from, because I certainly have heard very similar thoughts, and can even somewhat understand where those thoughts and feelings might derive from.

    What I ask myself the most though is why people within an ethnic group that has largely held, and still holds the dynamics of wealth and power in the world (nevermind the means of obtaining that wealth and power either) would feel so oppressed? I understand what comes from personal experiences. But how about the more objective picture? Or maybe, it’s just simply the willingness to understand the perspectives of a few other individuals in very different shoes?

    Am I missing something here? Because it all sounds so familiar, those little comments that just get your brain ticking, you know, when you keep telling yourself how it’s like a jigsaw puzzle. It’s there, but it’s not ALL there.

    I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I know it’s something the Racialicious/New Demographic team has articulated beautifully and precisely already a million times now.

    Anyway, if you haven’t, I suggest reading the New Demographic Core Beliefs section! :) I think a most excellent way to start your addiction to race, if that’s not why you’re here already.

  107. Whitney wrote:

    “whites are not victims of racism in the western world.”

    No, but for some reason it seems that racism is blamed almost entirely on whites.

    I just don’t see how things can progress if people are anti-white and proclaim themselves to be.

    And I think it’s kind of a cop-out to say that it’s basically acceptable to be anti-white because white people aren’t oppressed. You can be against a certain way of thinking or actions, but not a whole group of people simply based on the color of their skin.

    @Jacqueline:

    I don’t feel oppressed (not that I’m saying you addressed me in your post). I do however, feel that I can never say the right thing or do the right thing. It’s like no matter what i do, I’ll always be racist simply because I’m white. And that I’ll never understand.

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