by Carmen Van Kerckhove
What do you guys think of this skit, in which comedian Christopher Titus apologizes for 400 years of oppression by white people? (Thanks Tim!) I’m particularly curious to see what you think of his bit about the Japanese at the end?
I got the feeling that Titus was alternating between two different approaches in his skit, with varying degrees of success. First, he was trying to convey sincerity on issues white people aren’t comfortable discussing. Second, he was playing the average, stupid white person who doesn’t know how to apologize sincerely without making an excuse first. Titus has got great facial expressions and body language that help suggest when he flip-flops between those two positions. And I’d like to see him work on his material a little more, because I think it could be a very valid, cutting presentation. But it’s just not funny enough yet to forgive the inherent unease of the overall concept. … Then again, it’s not like he’s got a lot of other decent white admission/apology comedy skits to compare himself against.
Even aside from joking about Hiroshima, getting a cheap laugh about the inability to tell Japanese and Japanese-Americans apart… absolutely disgusting. Many of those Japanese-Americans helped win WWII. Either he doesn’t know about the 442nd or he doesn’t care. Dick! That part ruined the whole skit for me.
yeah. the part at the end with the japanese ruined it for me. he totally conflated japanese with japanese-american. dumb.
i agree with jack… and i also think it’s about blanketing discomfort with humor when dealing with a particularly touchy subject. the black-white relationship in the US is quite different than what it is here in canada (this is not to say it doesn’t exist, it’s just… different). i noticed two things:
1) the way the laughter quotient went from uneasy to straight guffaws when titus switched his gag from talking about blacks to talking about native indians…
2) the applause (APPLAUSE!) that followed when he mentioned that the japanese “deserved that shit”. my mouth fell open, and i stopped enjoying the bit. that and the “someone deserves a thank you” were a bit much for me to take.
Funny skit. I do however have a question. If white people owe such an apology for such oppression. shouldn’t anyone else who built an empire on the backs of slaves and invasion of other nations also apologize. Don’t flame me on this. I guess what I’m getting at is that what white people did to the world isn’t new to global history. ( I’m not making exuses) I’m saying what we did isn’t necessarly new in terms of invasion and oppression. Look at Eqypt who built their monuments and country with jewish slaves. Or the Roman empire who invaded numerous countries including Europe to expand their empire and oppressed early Christians, just to name a few. Not trying to start a war just pointing a few things out in the context of global history.
P.S. Titus does better in standup then he did in that FOX show of his a couple years back on TV anyone agree?
Peace
I’m in agreement with Jack. I think he was trying to flip between sincerely apologizing/raising an issue and parodying people who completly mess up the apology. The issue is that this wasn’t all that clear. It could have used a lot more polish to remove the possibility of offense.
“Don’t flame me on this. I guess what I’m getting at is that what white people did to the world isn’t new to global history.”
Oh my goodness! Non-white people can be oppressors too! I never thought of that before! What a brilliant point! Asians especially should keep it in mind because GENGHIS KHAN WAS A VERY BAD EGG!
Sarcasm over. I don’t think white people should feel a single second of guilt for the actions of white people in the past. That kind of guilt is useless.
White people who go around being angrily defensive because they think a bunch of phantom accusers are demanding apologies for their ancestors misdeeds strike me as tragically misguided. They are making it so much more complicated than it needs to be. Don’t be guilty, don’t be resentful, don’t be willfully ignorant of the existence of institutionalized racism existing in the present, and treat non-white people as complex human beings. It’s that simple really!
I’m also with Jack… I didn’t know much about Titus before this, but to me he demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity in his humor. That’s not to say that parts weren’t insensitive — but that’s part of the gag, part of the point. What many in the live audience take, though, may not be what I’m seeing. In sum, good bit.
yeah, i wasn’t feeling the asian bit so much. it felt dismissive. i’m biased too, as an asian am, to be particularly sensitive to these jokes.
i think he did what he could with this subject matter. i didn’t find it particularly offensive, and i think making comedy out of this is an artful and delicate process. And i do think comedy and laughs is a great way to communicate this idea to a large audience, as compared to picket signs and angry rants at the podium.
re: Brad’s question. I can see how an apology seems ineffectual and superfluous concerning race relations today. I think the point of the apology isn’t the words, but the understanding that your ‘race’ is part of a framework that has oppressed and gained. I think the “other empires have done this” is a cop out, and regardless of that, if you’re benefiting from an unjust system, or part of a party that perpetuates it, you should at least recognize it. I think the idea that “racism is over” implies that a lot of people haven’t.
Atlasien: Thank you for your response.
Oh my goodness! Non-white people can be oppressors too! I never thought of that before! What a brilliant point! Asians especially should keep it in mind because GENGHIS KHAN WAS A VERY BAD EGG!
Appreciate the candor on this.
I don’t think white people should feel a single second of guilt for the actions of white people in the past.
I have to say I’am speechless on this.
don’t be resentful,
Admittingly it is a struggle sometimes.
However.
don’t be willfully ignorant of the existence of institutionalized racism existing in the present,
you see this is what gets so many white people angry and distrustful of the anti-racist movement. In this comment you make it sound like we white people are aware of some sort of conspiracy against all minorities and lok the other way. I’m not saying that you believe that but comments like this suggests you do.
treat non-white people as complex human beings.
most do man, at least those who live in diverse settings like I do. I really don’t know what to say about those who don’t.
Anyways I not scared to discuss these issues even though I’m white as bread LOL! I’ll be here all week.
Ash:
but the understanding that your ‘race’ is part of a framework that has oppressed and gained.
I grudginly agrees with this despite all the good the US has done in the world and tried to do. We have had our ugly moments Spanish/American war, slavery of course, Race issues at home. etc. however I think we have tried to make ammends for those Injustices.
And I’m no liberal.
You can NEVER have a conversation without the old, 1st grade “but other people did it too” comment. It doesn’t even apply here. We are in NORTH AMERICA. Of course we’re not going to focus on what Egypt did to the Jewish slaves…how does that involve N. America? When it’s time to take blame, people are too quick to deal out the guilt like a deck of cards: but Egypt had slaves, black people are racists too, oh, and you asians – you are also sexist like us, etc. Give me a break…really.
The skit was funny until the end. Of course, I thought I was gonna hear an apology bit about the railroads that were built by Asians, and the “pretending not to know” that America did during the Holocaust, but I’m glad he didn’t leave out the Indians and Mexicans, and it was still funny til lthe Japanese part. Especially that “someone owes us a thank you”, but I am really biased against those types of comments anyway.
Atlasien and Ash summed up my thoughts and feelings of this skit.
atlasien wrote:
White people who go around being angrily defensive because they think a bunch of phantom accusers are demanding apologies for their ancestors misdeeds strike me as tragically misguided. They are making it so much more complicated than it needs to be. Don’t be guilty, don’t be resentful, don’t be willfully ignorant of the existence of institutionalized racism existing in the present, and treat non-white people as complex human beings. It’s that simple really!
Oh wow, but wow!. Absolutely stunning response/comment. In a nutshell, right on the money!
This is a tough one, and I admire him for trying.
First off, the bit starts pretty well. I didn’t laugh much, but I do think he captures the awkwardness inherent in being a white guy who means well. “My black friends bring up slavery, I can’t even talk, man – aw, aw, aw, etc. – you guys know I wasn’t there, right? C’mon, let’s go shoot some hoops, not that you’re predisposed to shoot hoops. Oh god, don’t beat me up, please don’t beat me up.” Whites’ discomfort in discussing race is rooted in this same cycle of fear of saying the wrong thing.
He also captures the reluctance of whites’ to participate in anti-racism. He says, “if one man took a 100% responsibility, then the healing could start.” Then he points to a member of the audience and says, “Go!” A lot of white people don’t know where to begin. How do I start to broach the topic? How do I reach out to people of color?
When he starts the apology with a couple of stereotypes (“First of all, you’re right: you do dance better than we do. But I also love chicken.”), things go downhill a little. I agree with Jack’s analysis. Titus is attempting to be the sincere white guy and the ignorant imperialists who used every Other in his path. But by inhabiting this sort of dual character, he really confuses the target of his humor and irony. “To the Indians, I also love whiskey.” Ouch. Is that funny?
And then he gets to the Japanese: “To the Japanese, you know, about the A-bomb and the internment camps? F!@# that, you guys started that, man!” Ironically, he would have been better off just not mentioning the Japanese at all than making this joke which reveals his ignorance.
And so we come full circle to why whites fear opening their mouths. Chances are, given the abundance of racist history this country has seen, I’ll say something wrong.
In the end, the whole “I’m whitey and I apologize” thing was pretty cool. He says, “see, we cracked the door a little bit, that was beautiful.” He clearly means well. He could also stand to educate himself a little more and polish up the act, but he is cracking the door.
The “someone owes us a thank you” comment was done in such an over-the-top manner that he had to be satirizing people who’d say that, rather than saying it sincerely himself.
You can NEVER have a conversation without the old, 1st grade “but other people did it too” comment. It doesn’t even apply here. We are in NORTH AMERICA. Of course we’re not going to focus on what Egypt did to the Jewish slaves…how does that involve N. America? When it’s time to take blame, people are too quick to deal out the guilt like a deck of cards: but Egypt had slaves, black people are racists too, oh, and you asians – you are also sexist like us, etc. Give me a break…really.
So what are you saying s? No one else has to take responsibilty for their character flaws? Thats what it sounds like you’re saying.
I don’t believe that any of the stereotypes or insensitive comments was by accident, at ALL. I don’t think Chris just let one slip. I believe that every statement was in line with the nature of the bit. I completely agree with Jack, and see the duality presented–sincerely wanting to approach the topic and “the average, stupid white person” who feels the need to defend himself first.
I know it’s been said before, but I wish I thought that the audience members saw what I saw. I think many (if not most) probably didn’t. That’s too bad.
I thought it was funny.
Doh! I dodged something in S’s comments my bad.
What does Eqypt, Romans, have to do North America?
N. Americans civilaztions were built the same way their were dude. I can’t believe you couldn’t see that dude. That’s what I meant. What white people did in the past wasn’t new to humanity.
He lost me with “chicken,” started to win me back, really lost me with “whiskey,” and then won me back a bit with “kramer.”
This is pretty edgy for a white guy, no? It seems this guy could really start some conversations, especially if (white) people are watching it on YouTube.
I liked the skit. It was clever at points and he had obviously had given some thought to the subject. Perhaps somebody could email their criticisms and urge him to rework the last part about the Japanese a little more.
> Perhaps somebody could email their criticisms and urge him to rework the last part about the Japanese a little more.
Consider it done. 
I just emailed Titus through his web site.
If white people owe such an apology for such oppression. shouldn’t anyone else who built an empire on the backs of slaves and invasion of other nations also apologize. Don’t flame me on this. I guess what I’m getting at is that what white people did to the world isn’t new to global history…
you see this is what gets so many white people angry and distrustful of the anti-racist movement. In this comment you make it sound like we white people are aware of some sort of conspiracy against all minorities and lok the other way…
most do man, at least those who live in diverse settings like I do. I really don’t know what to say about those who don’t…
Anyways I not scared to discuss these issues even though I’m white as bread LOL…
So what are you saying s? No one else has to take responsibilty for their character flaws?
N. Americans civilaztions were built the same way their were dude. I can’t believe you couldn’t see that dude.
I agree with those who said “nice try…heart’s in the right place…needs work…employed some unfunny and unsavory stereotypes along the way.”
The Japanese part was the worst. Not only did he conflate the Japanese aggressors with Japanese Americans, but he treats the death of 100,000 Japanese civilians as a punchline. Jokes about Hiroshima and Nagasaki are never cool.
I think he thinks that some stereotypes are well-known, part of our daily parlance, and therefore benign. Meaning it’s okay to use them as a source of humor. Blacks eat chicken, Indians run casinos, the Japanese produce electronics, etc. I’d disagree with him here and say he should rework the piece to eliminate them. Don’t use them to make (subtle) fun of minorities; use them only if you’re going to dispute them and shoot them down.
I’m sure you all caught the obvious stereotypes, but did you catch this one? The country’s European history is 500 years old, not 400 years old. It began when Spaniards explored the mainland in the early 1500s, not when Englishmen settled at Jamestown and Plymouth in the early 1600s.
The last bit makes me wonder if he believes his own skit.
White people should only feel guilty about the racism they’re helping perpetuate every day and about the ignorance they’re displaying about the glass ceiling, white privilege, and the kind of white mainstream racist media this guys is a part of. White people like Brad.
The discussion is getting a little heated so just want to remind everyone about our comment moderation policy, especially points 2 and 3.
2. Don’t address people using racial slurs. And yes, that includes anti-white racial slurs or even belittling/condescending remarks like “white boy.”
3. Don’t make personal attacks. If you’re not smart enough to win an argument without resorting to calling someone fat, stupid, crazy, or whatever, maybe you should work on your rhetorical skills.
This is a great conversation so let’s keep it civil please, folks. Thank you.
JC wrote:
White people should only feel guilty about the racism they’re helping perpetuate every day and about the ignorance they’re displaying about the glass ceiling, white privilege, and the kind of white mainstream racist media this guys is a part of. White people like Brad.
Ouch! I felt that one. Any way JC sorry you feel that way. but let me point something out here for ya. Do you really think all white people are living in a little bubble thinking life is grand and there are no problems in the world? Like I said to Atlasien most white people aside from white liberals and Neo-nazis don’t want to talk about race in this country is because of comments like yours. That s a human thing not a white thing.
Gatamala: is your idea of a discussion where you do the talking and I shut my mouth? It’s a debate people have different points of view.
Peace.
brad, i agree with your re: blame. i hear it allll the time and it’s getting really old.
it’s often found in arguments about immigration (well, asians and mexicans are xenophobic too!) or rap music (well, corporate america is sexist too!) or history (well, the blacks and indians had slaves before the europeans came!)…and they always make me say to myself, “ok, and…?”
it doesn’t help the argument. if these people tried such a fight in law school, they’d end up with big fat Fs. they don’t really further the point(s) they are trying to make nor does it offer any solution whatsoever except possibly that hatred, bigotry, sexism, and oppression continue in the future because x group or y group practiced it in the present or the past.
i think individuals should own up to what they are doing if they are trying to correct a wrong as opposed to excusing themselves by delegating the task to history.
or i guess maybe i agree with brad on some points and “s” on others. . . sorry about that
Wendi Yeah i did not get what you said at all what do you agree with me on and what don’t you agree with me on?
Re “Do you really think all white people are living in a little bubble thinking life is grand and there are no problems in the world?”
No, not all. Just most conservatives and a few liberals. I’d guesstimate about 80% of white America.
I’m particularly curious to see what you think of his bit about the Japanese at the end?
Overall – funny.
The Japanese part … it’s of a piece with the rest of it. If it makes one uncomfortable well that is the feeling of your ox being gored.
He left out part of my my ethnic group – he so forgot to include the Irish and the Italians in the list of ‘People Whom the Man was Putting Down’.
” … did you see how fast we got organized?”
Heh.
Oh, Gatamala. How I’ve missed thee.
But seriously, as often (and as much) as Brad’s comments make me want to pull my hair out, I get the impression that (he at least thinks) his head and heart are in the right place.
1. Titus began losing me as early as “I agree you dance better than us, but I too love chicken.”
2. Ash:
“yeah, i wasn’t feeling the asian bit so much. it felt dismissive. i’m biased too, as an asian am”
No, man. It’s not just you. I’m black, and I found that part repulsive. However, I see logic in Jeff’s argument that his over-the-top delivery suggests he was mocking individuals who hold that stance. Still, as has been mentioned 300 times upthread, he definitely needs to refine his act.
3. Brad:
“you see this is what gets so many white people angry and distrustful of the anti-racist movement. In this comment you make it sound like we white people are aware of some sort of conspiracy against all minorities and lok the other way. I’m not saying that you believe that but comments like this suggests you do.”
“Like I said to Atlasien most white people aside from white liberals and Neo-nazis don’t want to talk about race in this country is because of comments like yours.”
First of all, you realize these statements effectively prove Atlasien’s point, don’t you? Nobody (not here, at least) is asking for some grand apology for the atrocities committed by your ancestors. Any such gesture would ring incredibly hollow to anyone who isn’t simply seeking to be placated. After all, veiled and modified versions of these same atrocities are still being committed today by the folks we’d be asking to apologize.
Here’s what pisses me off about your post (and what Atlasien, I believe, was getting at in her reply). Your indignant tone reflects one present in the rhetoric of many a white “ally” – the self-exalting stance that says
“Racism is your problem, not mine. I deserve a medal for even listening to you.”
Also, regarding your resentment towards the idea that white people “look the other way” despite an awareness of “some sort of conspiracy against all minorities,” all I can tell you is that the truth hurts. No, I’m not saying that’s exactly what I took from Atlasien’s “willful ignorance” statement, but it’s close enough. When America stood behind the pathetic “fourth man” snowjob in the Sean Bell shooting “investigation,” it was looking the other way. When Americans rescinded their Katrina donations after Kanye West drew attention to a disgusting, inhuman disregard for poor black people’s lives, they were looking the other way. Whenever someone fears being “offensive” more than being racist, he is looking away – after all, if a man yells “N_ggerCh_nkSp_c” in the forest, and there’s nobody around to hear it, does he really make an offensive sound?
“[in response to Atlasien's "treat non-white people as complex human beings. "]
most do man, at least those who live in diverse settings like I do.”
Yet again, you represent a white American looking away. I assume this, because I’m sure you’re not naïve enough to really believe your own words. Go on Craigslist and visit the Rants section for a dose of ugly reality. And no, these aren’t the crazy, lonely miscreants they’re often painted as by apologists also “looking away” (‘cause you know CrazyLonelyRacist has replaced the Southern Redneck as the racial decoy/punching bag of choice in the 21st century). The people on Craig’s Rants & Raves are everyday i-bankers, teachers, and parents who stopped by after finding a date, setting up a carpool, or inquiring about the fairly used Ikea Peubli sofa bed elsewhere on the site.
Go to a bar on a Friday night in any metropolitan city and watch the crowds and listen to their conversations. If you’re in the right place at the right time, you’ll experience what I (in all my 6’7”, “big, scary black guy”-ness) have experienced here in the oh-so diverse “melting pot” of Manhattan on numerous occasions.
You know what? I had a lot more to say, but I couldn’t be bothered any more. I doubt you’re even looking in my direction.
damn html tags!
by the way, Carmen (or anyone), how do you set up those clean, indented quotes within a post?
merq – try the blockquote tag.
Ash:
i think he did what he could with this subject matter. i didn’t find it particularly offensive, and i think making comedy out of this is an artful and delicate process. And i do think comedy and laughs is a great way to communicate this idea to a large audience, as compared to picket signs and angry rants at the podium.
Agreed. I think that comedy has a much better chance of reaching a larger audience than “picket signs and angry rants.” However, I wonder at what cost and to what extent. Because it looked to me like what he was saying really made the (white members of the) audience uncomfortable – at least, that’s how I understand the applause at the mentioning of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This seemed to me, at least, that in order to make these points, at the end, he finally had to turn around and say “Okay, sometimes racial hatred is justified.” Obviously, he didn’t need to do this, but I question if he could have gotten the white people to go along with his apology without it. Maybe Titan just wasn’t “artful and delicate” enough, and a better comedian wouldn’t need such conciliatory tactics.
lol, sorry, brad
i got a little confused considering there was so much quoting going on
so just ignore my having said i agree with anyone, and just consider it as a point adding on to the discussion
*sorry* 
Merq hello again:
Brad’s comments make me want to pull my hair out
Sorry a different point of view angers you that much.
“Racism is your problem, not mine. I deserve a medal for even listening to you.”
When have I ever said that? Please stop putting words in my mouth
most do man, at least those who live in diverse settings like I do.”
Go on Craigslist and visit the Rants section for a dose of ugly reality. And no, these aren’t the crazy, lonely miscreants they’re often painted as by apologists also “looking away” (‘cause you know CrazyLonelyRacist has replaced the Southern Redneck as the racial decoy/punching bag of choice in the 21st century). The people on Craig’s Rants & Raves are everyday i-bankers, teachers, and parents who stopped by after finding a date, setting up a carpool, or inquiring about the fairly used Ikea Peubli sofa bed elsewhere on the site.
Yeah and go on a minorty oriented site or unmoderated website and you will find the same thing against white people. non-whites who say they are professionals mostly college kids who rage on white people. That doesn’t prove anything.
Go to a bar on a Friday night in any metropolitan city and watch the crowds and listen to their conversations. If you’re in the right place at the right time, you’ll experience what I (in all my 6’7”, “big, scary black guy”-ness) have experienced here in the oh-so diverse “melting pot” of Manhattan on numerous occasions.
I don’t know what you were expecting from people at a bar of all places. My expierences as a paramedic who works the over night shift on the weekends is that people (and i mean poc too) who drink are not going to be very decent people.
How about walk on any college campus in America and hear what any student or profesor says about white people or christians.
“you see this is what gets so many white people angry and distrustful of the anti-racist movement. In this comment you make it sound like we white people are aware of some sort of conspiracy against all minorities and lok the other way. I’m not saying that you believe that but comments like this suggests you do.”
Like I said to Atlasien most white people aside from white liberals and Neo-nazis don’t want to talk about race in this country is because of comments like yours.”
Do you not think I have a point here. yes Or no?
You know what? I had a lot more to say, but I couldn’t be bothered any more. I doubt you’re even looking in my direction.
If I wasn’t looking in your direction I wouldn’t have even bothered talking would I?
PS,
most do man, at least those who live in diverse settings like I do
Merq I know what I’m talking about. My observation is that most white people who live in a diverse setting tend to be more open to other cultures and people not of their race. I don’t know about white people who don’t, wouldn’t surprise if they didn’t.
Thats cool Wendi
in response to merq’s quote (which in previous discussions hes got me on this issue before)
“Racism is your problem, not mine. I deserve a medal for even listening to you.”
I agree that white people operate under this arrogance. (and fall into….), just the same as the white people who can spout “i’m privaledge because i’m white” and be silently crippled with the guilt. (which other people already addressed)
But i feel so many times that these are the only two places that white people are ”allowed” to tred. both mean you are not actively engaged in taking responsibility for your own steps to perpetuate racism, as well as the people before you.. both mean you are written off as clueless.
I know its not new to have white allys (look at the civil rights movement) working to change the racist structure and operations of our country. But besides sometimes referencing Bill Clinton, is there any major media coverage of someone who is a ”white ally???”
I think Titus makes a good impression of the ackwardness (and at the same time clueless about other issues (japanese americans) that white people can feel when trying to be allys. When mostly all the examples out there are what to do WRONG, its like warning “tred lightly”..and left..how do i do it right??
Sometimes its hard when you show up to a ”native america rights activist meeting” and get the feeling like you are being asked to leave, or blasted because you don’t know everything about the issue. Or maybe you get something wrong, (like the way Titus did with the Japanese Americans)
I’m not saying that Titus was justified (part of me is like..how could he miss that) but
self-education only goes so far. i also need people of color, people of situations to educate me as well. I mean how bad is it as well to operated under the thinking “i read in a book about native american rights so i know everything???
So where am i getting with this??
i guess i’m not looking for a medal, or looking for someone to say..oh poor whitey I’m just looking for someone to let me occupy ground that is inbetween. And its hard to find examples of that and know when i’ve crossed the line into ”arrogant” and when am i just a sitting duck feeling ”guilty”. Remanding and always checking myself takes so much discipline. I guess i want some ”race guru” or teacher who can help me to be someone who is dynamic and changing.
and as a child in my education, i really do want some postive reinforcement sometimes like a teacher “nice try…heart’s in the right place…needs work…”
sorry this is rambling. i’m not very articulate about these things.
Brad: There is a big difference between discrimination (which anyone is capable of) and systemic racism, which, in the US, does advantage the white majority. I don’t think you would disagree. I think by continuing to claim that white America grew through oppression just like other regions/civilizations, you perpetuate the argument that white people don’t need to take full responsiblity for history. I’m not talking about an apology, I’m talking about recognizing how history has made today (in America, and well, most of the world too) a place and time where the system works in white people’s favor. Can you recognize that without immediately drawing defensive comparisons?
As far as comedy goes, this is pretty funny. However, he uses a lot of stereotypes that make him look like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. How can you fix a problem when you don’t even know what the problem is?
As someone who had family members in the WWII internment camps, I was pretty offended by his comments about Japanese-Americans (actually, he didn’t seem to realize that most of the people in the internment camps weren’t even Japanese and some couldn’t speak Japanese at all.)
Also, I would bet that there is still a lot of racism going on in America RIGHT NOW. Lets focus on fixing the present problem.
Brad, Brad, Brad.
You’re doing it again, Brad! You’re doing the “well, they do it too” thing. I’m sure anyone who actually read my post properly would know I wasn’t calling minorities helpless victims in 100% of racialized confrontations — but that’s a standard decoy argument, isn’t it?
My expierences as a paramedic who works the over night shift on the weekends is that people (and i mean poc too) who drink are not going to be very decent people.
Talk about a ready-made cop out! Do you leave one of those pine-scented dealies hanging in their conscience, too? I’m sure anyone who has been disrespected by someone under the influence will easily attest to the fact that alcohol is a disinhibitor, and not some magical Jekyll-Hyde potion that makes people say and do things completely out of character.
How about walk on any college campus in America and hear what any student or profesor says about white people or christians.
I’m not white, but I am a Christian, and you should hear the things I say about Christianity. And this is what I believe we’re all asking for here. Instead of automatically getting defensive and pointing at straw men when a group you belong to is being criticized, take a second to actually listen to what’s being said, and honestly consider the truth value there. I know it isn’t fun, but you’ll be better for it. Go on, then. Try it.
Like I said, I didn’t expect you to get much of what I was saying, because I knew you’d have begun “looking away” like the cases I’d cited earlier.
Turns out you didn’t even get that.
Re: the clip
It looks to me like Titus’s comment on dancing/chicken/whiskey was a deliberate part of the act to illustrate the shift from genuine response to clueless caricature. It takes the idea that when resolving a conflict it’s best to find a common ground, but the character is an idiot, so he picks stereotyped offensive “common” points. However, I totally agree the act needs some work, particularly in delineating the shift from Titus the Comic vs. Titus the well meaning but oblivious idiot, because right now it’s not entirely clear which one he’s in at a given time. It’s also alarming to see with which perspective the audience audibly agrees.
Brad – that’s why I posted that link. YOU are at the place where you need to STOP, LISTEN, READ – that is if you are really sincere about not being a racist. I just don’t have the energy anymore for this. You aren’t saying anything that “we” haven’t heard before and DON’T hear everyday on Fox News or any other show.
Trying to prove some sort of victimology and street cred (unlike THOSE po’ rednecks merq referenced) because you live in a “diverse” (gentrified and cheaper) setting doesn’t fool anyone.
I agree that the Japanese internment thing is a glaring problem.
But I’m surprised that no one else has raised an eyebrow at the very last line of the skit:
“You better accept our apology, cuz you see how quickly we just got organized.”
That sounds like a threat, you know? It sounds very much like “get off our fucking backs already, or you’ll get a(nother?) taste of what it’s really like when we decide to *focus* on being violent assholes.”
A lot of the question for me rests right in whether he is implying “a” or “another” in that sentence I just wrote. If it’s “another,” then I can see that he might still be in the same anti-racist vein. If it’s “a” … it’s pretty much exactly the opposite. Using humor to intimidate rather than educate.
Araja wrote:
Brad: There is a big difference between discrimination (which anyone is capable of) and systemic racism, which, in the US, does advantage the white majority
Please go into more detail on that one. Thats the same thing. Discrimination and favoring the white majority.
Merq Merq Merq:
I wasn’t calling minorities helpless victims in 100% of racialized confrontations
I’m glad we can be in a agreement on this
Talk about a ready-made cop out! Do you leave one of those pine-scented dealies hanging in their conscience, too? I’m sure anyone who has been disrespected by someone under the influence will easily attest to the fact that alcohol is a disinhibitor, and not some magical Jekyll-Hyde potion that makes people say and do things completely out of character.
I love how you dismiss my expierence as a paramedicas as a cop-out especially from someone who isn’t a paramedic. PS I’ve been around a few drunks to know what exactly what alcohol is.
Instead of automatically getting defensive and pointing at straw men when a group you belong to is being criticized, take a second to actually listen to what’s being said
I get defensive because I have issues I have to deal with too just like you all have too and when some RICH-white liberal or a minority with a chip on their shoulder has the nerve to tell me I’am better off because I’am white that is when I get defensive.
I’d like to agree with crista. I am very interested in race issues, but as a white person often feel nervous about speaking publicly for fear of “making a mistake” — saying the wrong thing, reinforcing a stereotype, not being taken seriously. Mistakes are crucial tools in any learning process and people ought to be more tolerant of those who are trying to understand and participate in a constructive dialog.
Many people on this thread have challenged Brad to rethink his perspective… as they should. However, the loaded language being used (I feel) is more likely to discourage him from learning. It seems pushy and rooted in frustration. I can certainly understand frustration, but remember that Brad is at a website dedicated to exploring racial issues. If he really wanted to “look away,” why would he bother visiting the site? I agree that he needs to learn a thing or two about how to discuss racism constructively (without resorting to straw men, etc) but shooting him down for his attempts alienates Brad and probably other white people reading the thread, curious about the issues. I know I sure thought twice about putting myself out there…
Just wanted to chime in here.
Kristen, exactly my thought; the “see how quickly we got organized?” line was, I felt, among the most problematic in the skit. Apologizing for genocide and then threatening to go back to genocidal behavior if the apology isn’t accepted is, well, kinda uncool.
I had other problems too, which others have aptly pointed out. I still laughed at quite a few lines, and I suspect he does mean well. He just isn’t quite there yet. I hope he keeps learning and working on his craft. I hope we all do.
And I hope Brad signs up for Carmen’s Anti-Racist Action Group. Just so he stops tossing out the same tired arguments that every anti-racist has heard a gazillion times. It would be refreshing to hear some new, creative attempts at deflection, misdirection, and denial.
alright, this is def too much to get into while at work. just wanted to say quickly
Whenever someone fears being “offensive” more than being racist, he is looking away – after all, if a man yells “N_ggerCh_nkSp_c” in the forest, and there’s nobody around to hear it, does he really make an offensive sound?
great line merq.
Ashley: Thanx for the reply
I think I should say that I did learn a thing from being on this site and that is anger, bitterness doesn’t solve anything and that I still need to remember that people on this site come from a very different place from me.
But I also want people to understand that me being white hasn’t given me any sort of advantage in life I have issues just like everyone else does do unfair things happen to me too. Does the white majority always do right? NO of course not, history shows that, but I do think it tries, I don’t think any majority in any country does when it comes to minorities. (I’m not trying to pull a straw man argument)However I understand I need to be empathetic to people who have issues, I’am a paramedic who is trying to be a firefighter afterall, Oh yeah and I’am dating a non-white so I realize patience and understanding will be essential for me to be succesful in life.
So please understand I’am only defensive because of what i have seen and expeirenced not because I think you guys are full of crap.
Gatamala:
Trying to prove some sort of victimology and street cred (unlike THOSE po’ rednecks merq referenced) because you live in a “diverse” (gentrified and cheaper) setting doesn’t fool anyone.
You exuse me of not listening yet you wont believe me when I give you my expeirences?
Isn’t this the same guy who is going to be on that new ABC series called Big Shots?
Ashley, crista, most people of color and/or anti-racist activists understand that most white folks are uncomfortable discussing racism. I think it’s worth asking ourselves, “Why exactly is that? What’s at the root of this unease and fear? And most importantly, how does this social dynamic fit into the overall institutional structure of racism?”
I think it’s safe to say that cultural/institutional racism is designed to hinder anti-racist discussion, since obviously anti-racism is intended to dismantle those very institutions. One subtle mechanism for stifling anti-racism is this fear you describe: fear of The Dark Rage, and perhaps even more, fear of being accused of being a white racist. Very often, whites request or even demand that people of color speak to them in a certain way, with a certain gentle tone, that does not remotely imply that they are racist; and they often threaten to walk away from the discussion if these ground rules are not followed.
What all of us must try to understand is that all of these behaviors, beliefs, feelings of fear, confusion, and anger, on all of our parts, are not the result of any individual’s personal inadequacies or moral failures; they are predictable consequences of being socialized in a racist society, and they demonstrate social relationships and dynamics created by institutional racism. And so, I encourage white folks to try to push themselves past their unease and fear because I believe the cause of opposing racism is worth some unease and fear. Furthermore, white folks must try to understand the degree of violence and pain which racism inflicts on people of color, which is at the root of our anger and frustration and hurt when discussing racism; we’re not just dropping in and out of a conversation out of curiosity; we’re talking about our lives, our heartbreak, our hurt. In perspective, I believe that the blood-soaked soul-wound of racism far outweighs any social unease we might experience in attempting to address and confront it.
White folks who brave the discussion despite their unease, and who don’t allow themselves to get sidetracked by guilt or privilege or defensiveness, end up having nothing to fear when discussing racism. They take that big first step on the anti-racist journey, de-centering their own sensitivities while deeply listening to the voices of people of color, studying the institutional structure of racism. They become allies to people of color.
Peace.
Brad:
I think you’re asking good questions! Don’t get discouraged just yet. My 2c:
I think the hard point of contention here is your assertion that 1.) white folks are generally good/not racist in diverse cities. And 2.) your implication that racial dialog is stymied by the attacks of hyper-sensitive POC.
so regarding 1.) the point i’d emphasize is that anti-racist white people benefit from a racist system. Araja mentioned this, and you asked about it:
Brad: There is a big difference between discrimination (which anyone is capable of) and systemic racism, which, in the US, does advantage the white majority
Please go into more detail on that one. Thats the same thing. Discrimination and favoring the white majority.
I’ll give an example of how anti-racist white folks participate in a racist institution:
In my lovely city of residence, Boston, juvenile arrest rates (last i checked, like early 2000s) was about 65/35 whites to POC. In contrast, juvenile detention rates are flipped, 65/35 POC to whites. So what does that mean? Somewhere from arrest, to trial, to sentencing, white kids are being let off, and black kids aren’t. And I bet if you interview the cops, the judges, the public defenders, they’re all against racism and try not to discriminate. I’m sure some of them are really trying to fight the numbers. This is an example of systemic racism. Does that make sense?
So a white kid who commits a crime in Boston has a better chance of avoiding jail time. And he could be a staunch anti-racist criminal punk, while still benefiting from a racist system. Is this his fault? No. But if this kid were to get off and declare, there is no racism here, or there might be racists, but i’m certainly not part of it, can you see how that looks to the minority kid who got locked up for the same crime? Does this make sense?
Concerning 2), you’re absolutely right, attacks don’t make much for productive dialog. Ashley said a similar thing. But I’ve had this discussion a lot, and I get burned out sometimes. Typing that last paragraph just burned me out. I get angry that white folks have the privilege not to have to think about this, or more accurately, I’m pissed that I have to deal with it. And that b/c they don’t deal with it, they assume it’s not real?? that’s irksome.
Speaking of which, crista, I think guilt is a natural phase of dealing with your issues. but eventually, i believe you’ll become your own ‘race guru.’ your senses will get attuned to what’s just and what’s not, and how you act in response will determine if you stay feeling confused or start feeling empowered.
Brad,
I love how you dismiss my expierence as a paramedicas as a cop-out especially from someone who isn’t a paramedic. PS I’ve been around a few drunks to know what exactly what alcohol is.
Okay, I’ll give you what you seem to have craved since the beginning of this thread.
“Wow, Brad. You’re a paramedic? That’s so admirable!”
Feel better? Good. Now that we’ve gotten that out of our systems, let’s move on. First of all, if you reread my post, you’ll see I accused you of providing a ready-made excuse for people who exhibit questionable behavior when drunk (hence the car wash “air freshener” metaphor for you clearing the conscience of these offenders). It wasn’t a direct attack on you, for shit’s sake. Holy Defensive Kneejerks, Batman!
I get defensive because I have issues I have to deal with too just like you all have too and when some RICH-white liberal or a minority with a chip on their shoulder has the nerve to tell me I’am better off because I’am white that is when I get defensive.
This is one of the areas you apparently miss the point. From my teen counseling days (I guess it’s my turn to halo-bait), I still remember one kid’s depressingly mature and realistic outlook on what he saw as his father playing favorites. He said, “I don’t care if they treat [older brother] better, as long as they don’t treat me worse.”
His point was that there’s a base value of care/attention/love that should be given to any child, and he was fine with his parents exceeding that value with his brother as long as they didn’t drop below that base value in their dealings with him.
My point? I’m really not saying you’re necessarily better off because you’re white, as you put it. Rather, what I’m trying to get across to you (along with the “rich, white liberal” and the “minority with a chip on his shoulder”) is that while you may not be getting any more than the base value, minorities are, by default, given far less.
Get it now?
Great response, egs, Ash! (seems like that’s all I usually have to add, sorry:-()
PS: I do want to say though, that I’m learning soo very much on this blog. It’s one of the few I peruse and commend Carmen for keeping it up. Yay, Carmen, wooooot!!!
Ash,
I’ll give an example of how anti-racist white folks participate in a racist institution:
Just read your last post. I’ll throw one into the hat.
In college, I was good friends with this one dude on my floor (we’ll call him James). He was Greek/Cuban-American, and was very vocal about his anti-racist ideals.
One day, a mutual acquaintance (also white — let’s call him Frank) begins to tell a story about an incident from the night before. Apparently, he had gotten into a confrontation with another driver on his way home from a party. The driver, who was black, apparently ends up cutting him off, forcing him to pull over, and they end up fighting.
Frank apparently kicked some major ass that night, and left the guy bleeding on the sidewalk as the cops arrived. They took a look at each of them and decided to arrest the black guy.
That was Frank benefitting from institutional racism.
However, it was James’ response that shocked me even more:
(laughing) “Dude, thank God the NYPD’s totally racist, or you would’ve been in some real trouble.”
He effectively dropped all anti-racist concerns when institutional racism benefitted his friend. Amusingly enough, he could still turn down his nose at racist law enforcement, while remaining completely oblivious of his support for that framework.
Ash: Allright honest discussion finally
In my lovely city of residence, Boston, juvenile arrest rates (last i checked, like early 2000s) was about 65/35 whites to POC. In contrast, juvenile detention rates are flipped, 65/35 POC to whites. So what does that mean? Somewhere from arrest, to trial, to sentencing, white kids are being let off, and black kids aren’t. And I bet if you interview the cops, the judges, the public defenders, they’re all against racism and try not to discriminate. I’m sure some of them are really trying to fight the numbers. This is an example of systemic racism. Does that make sense?
A little
In my lovely city of residence, Boston,
My whole family is from Boston except me (not trying to get off subject) I was The only one born and raised in Tampa Fl.
I like to address those numbers you gave me.
arrest rates (last i checked, like early 2000s) was about 65/35 whites to POC
In contrast, juvenile detention rates are flipped, 65/35 POC to whites.
Those are very interesting numbers too say the least. however I THINK I have an explanation (Maybe) for that and it is from a very interesting place. (this kind of tricky to explain but it goes) When you look at crimes from a racial perspective IE the race of the victims vs the race of the perps. Most criminals chose people of the same race. When it came down to sentencing the stats show whites were less likeley to persue charges while POC persued. Keep in mind those stats come from FL not Boston. Interestingly enough when the crimes were IR Both whites and POC persued charges. So ASH possible explanation but like I said those are Fl stats not Boston Ma.
Brad, you missed the point. Of course I know the similarities in their history (I didn’t “miss” anything), but we are talking about what HAPPENED Re: N. AMERICA & white people. His skit wasn’t about other countries or even the faults of other races. What I am saying is that is seems like many white people can never just admit something racist or inhumane without shifting some blame or pointing out flaws in others when the conversation is soley about them. And low and behold, you respond with your “No one else has to take responsibilty for their character flaws?” post. Another shift. Oh, and I love the frequent downplays of slavery and racism, you know, the popular “Oh, it’s nothing new” type comments. You are right, it’s not new, but that is such an insensitive point – it doesn’t make it better and it certainly doesn’t make it right. I know you said you weren’t “making excuses” but it’s still downplaying, and it’s still an overused cop-out.
Anyway, great posts people!
Kristen: Interesting point! I forgot about the “organized” comment.
Okay, I’ll give you what you seem to have craved since the beginning of this thread.
“Wow, Brad. You’re a paramedic? That’s so admirable!”
Okay merq you lose me with the arrogance you display all the time. (You act like you know me so well yet you never even met me)
All I said was dude I’m a paramedic I’ve seen shit go down on the street that ain’t pretty.
And here is how you respond
Talk about a ready-made cop out!
when you blow somebodies expierence off like that White or (insert any race here) They’re going to get mad as I did. I’m not asking for your approval here.
From my teen counseling days
Merq good for you. keep up the good work.
Geez, I hated his awful show on Fox, like 5-7 years ago? Can’t believe he’s still performing:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205700/
Kristen: I actually thought his “organizing” line was the only funny bit, and didn’t take it as a threat at all. It was mocking the perceived apathy and inaction of whites on racial issues except when it comes to commenting or passing judgement. There’s never an organized outcry, no?
You’re right, Brad. I may have been a bit of an asshole with that last one.
Apologies.
while you may not be getting any more than the base value, minorities are, by default, given far less.
Get it now?
maybe I would Merq but I see all the time around me where there are POC (and yes black and latino) who are doing fine and in some cases (Mostly Drs I know through work) better than I’am currently (I’m not putting myself out as some poor white trash).
Merq Wrote:
One day, a mutual acquaintance (also white — let’s call him Frank) begins to tell a story about an incident from the night before. Apparently, he had gotten into a confrontation with another driver on his way home from a party. The driver, who was black, apparently ends up cutting him off, forcing him to pull over, and they end up fighting.
Frank apparently kicked some major ass that night, and left the guy bleeding on the sidewalk as the cops arrived. They took a look at each of them and decided to arrest the black guy.
Uhmmm just so were clear here merq.
Frank gets into a argument with black driver. Black driver cuts him off and forces Frank to pull over? A fight insues in which Frank pummels Black driver. NYPD arrests black driver.
Aside from the fact that is self-defense because essentially what black driver was commit wrongful imprisionment. And from you described merq it wouldn’t surprise me if black driver instigated the fight.
Honestly merq is this the best example you have of “institutional racism” oh and a white guy actually told you this story in front of you a 6′7 black guy? without reservation? and you intensely “anti-racist” half cuban half greek friend went along with it and actually joked about it?
Ok If you say so.
Brad, please sign up for Carmen’s course! You need it bad and that ain’t good. These things you speculate about in the dark are well-known to those who study them, and they’re not as you believe. The law always favors whites, period. The very first law that was passed in the US, even before a taxation system was even established, was the Naturalization Act, which asserted that only “free whites” could become US citizens with the right to vote and own property. You know when people of Chinese descent overcame this law and gained to right to citizenship? 1941. And that law was passed after the ratification of a Constitution which says that Blacks are worth three-fifths of a human being but cannot exercise the vote — in order to pad the power of Southern slave-owners. Since then, the law has always and continually been used as a bludgeon by a white power structure against people of color. Check out the stats on the present-day prosecution/sentencing of black-on-white crime versus white-on-black crime, which is disproportionate to an absurd degree. Check out prosecution/sentencing of blacks versus whites on drug charges. Check out the Jena Six as an example of how things work in this country. To say that whites have no advantage in this society is, well, frankly so ignorant as to be utterly embarrassing. I appreciate the fact that you’re engaging and asking questions, but you also need to educate yourself. Read Howard Zinn’s The People’s History of the United States or something. There’s a tremendous volume of scholarship on this matter if you really want to know. You might consider reading up on it before running off opinions to those who have already studied it.
I have another example of institutionalized racism and how it affects people as a race rather than on an individual basis.
I worked in the mortgage department of a bank and lots of loan applications. They’re sorted by race (for anti-discrimination purposes, but that’s another issue). So, I was able to tell white applicants from black applicants. By and large the white applicants were able to list large gifts ranging from $2,000 – $10,000 in the form of cash and furniture from their parents. The black applicants rarely if ever had any of this type of gift listed. (Not to mention, the appraisal photos generally showed clear class differences between neighborhoods the white and black applicants were buying in.)
You might say that black people don’t value buying property in the same way that white people do. However, I think it reflects a historical disparity that continues to affects black people as a whole.
African Americans have a legacy in the United States that goes back many hundreds of years. Families become wealthy by accumulating and inheriting money and property over time. Slavery prevented black people from the economic benefit of their labor for the first few hundred years that they worked and lived here. Slavery, and later, Jim Crow Laws, and then segregation policies prevented us from owning property, or buying land in locations where the property value would increase over time. This was true within my parents’ lifetime.
If African Americans have been working here for the last 400 years, we should have accumulated 400 years of wealth, political power and educational success to show for it, rather than 40 years of voting, housing, and employment rights. (it’s one tenth of the actual value).
Yes, affirmative action has made a way for me and my mother’s generation. Yes, now we are on our way up. But that doesn’t help the previous generations of black people who were denied educational and economic opportunities. My grandfather could have been a third generation Ph.D. instead of the son of a coal miner.
Institutional racism means that even though your parents and your parents’ parents have lived and worked here for six or seven generations, they weren’t able to pass on property or education (or heck, an oil company) to their grandkids. It means that you labor all of your life, but your earnings were siphoned away to benefit one of the most powerful nations in the world *and it’s multinational corporations*
The earning disparities, and housing disparities, and educational disparites between whites and blacks in the United States today are the direct consquence of the history of slavery and institutionalized racism.
So no, neither you or I are necessarily doing badly, but for as long as my family has been living and working in this country we would be doing better had we not lived and labored under the economic and educationally stunting conditions of slavery and later institutionalized racism.
Anyone else?
Excellent Coco. Simply excellent analysis.
Brad,
Those are very interesting numbers too say the least. however I THINK I have an explanation (Maybe) for that and it is from a very interesting place. (this kind of tricky to explain but it goes)…
I find explanations that are “interesting” or “tricky” suspect. Concerning the prison industry/complex, you’d need quite a bit of tricky explanations for the overt racism there.
ASH:
All I can say is what the stats show what the stats show believe it or not.
Kai:
Check out the stats on the present-day prosecution/sentencing of black-on-white crime versus white-on-black crime, which is disproportionate to an absurd degree.
Those same stats show that whites were the majority victims in IR crimes rather then the other way around. And most of those involved some form of violence including murder so.
Coco:
you have me beat here I have nothing to disagree with you on here not one point. I can’t argue with this:
Yes, affirmative action has made a way for me and my mother’s generation. Yes, now we are on our way up. But that doesn’t help the previous generations of black people who were denied educational and economic opportunities. My grandfather could have been a third generation Ph.D. instead of the son of a coal miner.
Man I have nothing to say to that. When you are right, you are right. When you say that nothing can help the previous genrations of blacks you are absolutley right, the wounds are so raw, and the memories too harsh to forget.
make no mistake I’am having an epipheny here I just can’t argue because I agree with the sentiments here.
So kudos coco
Brad, please link us to your stats.
Brad:
Try looking at it like this, as a white person, you have a statistical advantage. Take the presidency, for example. To date, all U.S. President have been white and male. This is not saying that, theoretically, people who are not white or male can’t be president. Nor is it saying that if you are white and male you WILL be president. However, statistically, someone who is white and male has a much better shot at the White House than someone that isn’t, even if it was for no other reason than a white male president has precedent for the office rather than being an anomaly. In actual practice, it’s not a level playing field.
You, Brad from Florida, may not feel you directly benefited from being white. Still, statistically, you are more likely to get breaks and benefits from the system. That doesn’t guarantee you as an individual are getting those breaks and benefiting from them, but that you are more likely to get them than a non-white person.
The thing I find alarming about your arguments is that people keep giving you examples of white people benefiting the from the system and you keep dismissing and refuting the examples as questionable or circumstantial. That’s sort of a bullet proof argument that shuts down debate, no one can refute whether or not you find something dubious. How many people need to say the system is skewed towards white people and provide credible examples before you’ll consider there may be something to that argument and look into it? Or will that not happen until someone comes up with doubt-proof argument?
Brad, also, can you explain further why people of color are more likely to press legal charges than whites? It’s interesting that your shifty rhetoric is so full of essentialist notions such as that, yet also full of flowery colorblindness. Take some classes, bro! You sound like a non-engineer talking about how to build a bridge, or a non-firefighter talking about how firefighters should go about putting out a serious fire. These subjects require study and training.
Roni: You, Brad from Florida, may not feel you directly benefited from being white. Still, statistically, you are more likely to get breaks and benefits from the system. That doesn’t guarantee you as an individual are getting those breaks and benefiting from them, but that you are more likely to get them than a non-white person.
Thats my point Ron I’am not benefitting from the system for being white.
Coco….
What a succinct and well placed comment. It was able to do what all the other posts combined weren’t able to do. Brad was able to see a different point of view. Brad, it is to your credit that after 69 posts on this issue you are still reading, responding, listening and obviously still open.
Brad, you mentioned the Drs that you worked with you were POC. Given Coco’s excellent post, I hope that you can maybe see with new eyes the struggles that the Black drs you interact with, or Black people who are in general “doing better than you”, had to go through and endure to acheive their levels of success.
Kristen..great call with that line. I thought it was problematic too.
Ashley and Christa….I think Kai was really on point. Some discussions are just hard, period. They can be like going to the dentist…scary, uncomfortable, painful, icky….but not going is only going to make it worse when you get there. Confrontation is hard. Being wrong is hard. Racism survives because of fear. If we want it gone, we have to be courageous enough to have the conversations necessary to disappear it. You will survive it, and people will only love and respect you more for it in the end.
Lastly Merq…how very big of you, in the midst of your fervor and furor, justified, mind you, that you apologized to Brad for stepping over a boundary. You are a big man, Merq.
Titus is in fact going to be on the new show Big Shots…starring Dylon McDermot and two other guys I can’t name right now. It also features Nia Long. So….we will see if they kick her off mid-season in favor of a White girl…maybe Titus will apologize?
Kai: I don’t pretend to have all the answers I can only say what the stat showed.
heres a few on those stats:
http://www.amren.com/colorofcrime/color.pdf
And heres one from a black columinist who says the same thing
Brad, your first source is on the Anti-Defamation League’s website as a “pseudo-scientific white supremacist”. The second one doesn’t work.
http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/amren.asp?xpicked=5&item=amren
“New Century Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization founded in 1994 to study immigration and race relations so as to better understand the consequences of America’s increasing diversity. ”
From their website at http://www.nc-f.org/
Scary, no?
Michelle:
Brad, you mentioned the Drs that you worked with you were POC. Given Coco’s excellent post, I hope that you can maybe see with new eyes the struggles that the Black drs you interact with, or Black people who are in general “doing better than you”, had to go through and endure to acheive their levels of success.
Hey medical school ain’t easy for anyone. Wether its an immigrant from another country having to learn the language or a poor kid from an inner city neighborhood having to overcome economic difficulties to be a doctor and make something of themselves. As far as I’am concerned they have earned my respect.
Mimi: Sorry don’t know whats up with that try typing the adresses.
Brad, read post 78 and 79. The organization AmRen that put that pdf together is affiliated with white supremacist groups. It would be logical to think that the numbers are skewed in order to suit their purposes. It’s misinformation.
Let me clarify my posts. AmRen.com whom you cited is a part of New Century Foundation. New Century Foundation can be found on the Anti-Defamation League’s web site, listed for white supremacy.
http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/amren.asp?xpicked=5&item=amren
Mimi: you are right I just now looked at your links. I’am an idiot. Sorryx 1000
heres another link
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
PS were able to look at the other link?
Michelle:
First of all, thanks for the kind words. Secondly:
Brad, it is to your credit that after 69 posts on this issue you are still reading, responding, listening and obviously still open.
I really must raise my glass to him for still reading and responding. But honestly, I question the “listening” and I definitely question the “obviously open” part.
Like Roni said, despite his cute declarations of openness and enlightenment, Brad had his mind made up before he walked into the room, and nothing’s going to change that.
I’m done, Brad. You enjoy your head-in-the-sand existence — it’s a luxury* available only to the white majority.
*That’s right. White people don’t actually enjoy any race-based luxuries in this country. I forgot.
I’m done, Brad. You enjoy your head-in-the-sand existence — it’s a luxury* available only to the white majority.
*That’s right. White people don’t actually enjoy any race-based luxuries in this country. I forgot.
And you enjoy hating the world merq
merq and brad: *both* of you signed up for Carmen’s course, no?
In my opinion, Titus is not that great of a comedian to begin with. I had a few small laughs with awkward silences in between.
I’ve noticed with all the comedians I’ve watched through the years, that it is hard to make jokes about race, slavery. Obviously, these subjects are extra sensitive to some but I believe comedy can bring people together. Comedians strive to point out faults in everyday lives, history or ideas.
That’s what he was trying to do here, make everyone laugh at the same things; either about themselves or someone else.
Controversy and comedy go hand in hand. I think this was done very tastefully and very pointed. I laughed my ass off.
First of all may I say that this discussion is exactly what I was trying to get to with this bit. I was so tired of every time someone had a problem they blamed “whitey” then I realized that whitey did do some shitty things. I wrote the bit to apologize for racism so my kids and your kids could have a better life together, honestly. The flip in the japanese section is for comedic effect. You can’t just keep saying “I apologize” or else it loses its impact. Besides its absurdly funny. I also was tired of some people blaming whitey. I got slapped around by this big black guy in my neighborhood when I was 8. I did nothing to the black race except buy a KC and the sunshine band record…again, I’m Whitey and I apologize. I thought if I showed the absurdity of one man taking 100% responsibility for the hundreds of years and millions of lives that racism and injustice has done to destroy the people of color that people would realize that looking backward just makes the past always in your future. Now that one whiteboy has apologized can we put it behind us and go forward together? And, frankly the bit is funnier and more inventive than 90% of the shit out there. ( He says arrogantly) It’s amazing how much space was dedicated to a piece of stand up comedy.
Thank you
Christopher TItus
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of New Demographic, a diversity education firm. Her perspectives on race and diversity have been featured on CNN, MSNBC, NPR, USA Today, and The New York Times.
Funny white man? « We Four in Egypt on 29 Aug 2007 at 4:07 pm
[...] I regularly read a great blog called Racialicious. Carmen, the smart woman behind Racialicious, blogged about a YouTube video of a white comedian apologizing, on behalf of whites, for slavery and other atrocities. It’s [...]