Comments

1. Donna Darko wrote:

   The street harrassment article reminded me of something Donna of The Silence of Our Friends once said.

   Racism = Prejudice + Power + INGNORANCE

   Racism against whites = Prejudice + EXPERIENCE

   So women who have been harrassed multiple times by Latinos and blacks is something like

   Sexism against men = Prejudice + EXPERIENCE

   It’s not racism but like Kai said it’s best to look at it from different angles i.e. adding the class angle.

   The emailer Alicia got it backwards. The stereotype that bigger women are lower class and promiscuous is a a societal problem. How it reflects on men who date bigger women is not the issue. She said Asian American men think normal Asian American women are too big and that black women by extension are too big. The average size in America is 14. Why do Asian American men and 1st generation Asian American parents expect Asian American women to look like women in Asia i.e. be a size 0-6 when the average American woman is a size 14? Asian American men should look at Asian American and black women size 6-14 as normal and therefore attractive.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 10:51 am ¶

2. Donna Darko wrote:

   It’s incredible you never saw the connection between street harrassment and sexism or the fact that you’re a woman.

   There goes your feminist cred.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 10:55 am ¶

3. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

   Oh Donna, I have zero feminist cred. Seriously it’s embarrassing.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 11:05 am ¶

4. Donna Darko wrote:

   I didn’t say you had ZERO feminist cred. But it’s extremely unusual for a woman to not make the connection between street harrassment and sexism.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 12:51 pm ¶

5. Donna Darko wrote:

   What’s embarrassing is someone nominated for Best Political Podcast and Best Political Blog (http://www.bloggerschoiceawards.com/blogs/show/8097) didn’t see the connection between catcalling and sexism.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 1:24 pm ¶

6. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

   Oh cool - I didn’t realize Racialicious and ATR had been nominated! Thanks for the link.

   But yeah re: catcalling. As I said in the podcast, it’s an issue I never spent much time thinking about. I just knew it pissed me off so I make efforts to minimize my awareness of it (hence the omnipresent headphones).

   That’s why it was great to read Latoya’s post and the awesome discussion that ensued - I learned so much from everyone’s input! Really fascinating stuff.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 1:37 pm ¶

7. Donna Darko wrote:

   Yeah you were nominated for Best Blog of All Time and Best Political Podcast too.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 2:33 pm ¶

8. Donna Darko wrote:

   I mean Best Blog of All Time and Best Pop Culture Blog. You were nominated for Best Political Podcast a while ago on yahoo or something.

   Posted 11 Jul 2007 at 4:56 pm ¶

9. Yolanda Carrington wrote:

   Carmen and Kai, thanks so much for this show. I couldn’t agree with y’all more. By the logic of Salustri, Klinger, and company, privileged racist sexist asshole white guys who happen to be gay are responsible for society’s homophobia. But if that’s the case, what about women and people of color who are also LGBT? What did we do to deserve homophobia?

   And I’ll say it again—white men of all ages and socioeconomic classes street-harass just as much as those hard-rock brown dudes. Just stop by your local college campus any day of the week.

   Posted 12 Jul 2007 at 1:04 am ¶

10. Donna Darko wrote:

    Well, I noticed when Carmen and Kai were talking about construction workers, that’s a specific location as are college campuses. Carmen herself said she was harrassed most by black and Latino men. On Latoya’s thread, I wrote since childhood, it’s definitely been Latino and black men. I don’t think it’s racist to generalize when something happens to you hundreds or thousands of times.

    Posted 12 Jul 2007 at 10:19 am ¶

11. Donna Darko wrote:

    It’s better to tell construction workers, privileged white male college students and lower class Latino and black men to stop harrassing women in the street. Period.

    Posted 12 Jul 2007 at 10:40 am ¶

12. Yolanda Carrington wrote:

    I don’t think it’s racist to generalize when something happens to you hundreds or thousands of times.

    Yes it is, DD, and that’s exactly what Carmen and Kai are talking about here. A hasty generalization about all men of color from a times-a-thousand experience is indeed racist. And it ignores reality, namely the statistical reality that all women are more likely to be harassed and assaulted by men who share their ethnic background. If only we could find some research on white women and sexual harassment/violence!

    Posted 12 Jul 2007 at 4:14 pm ¶

13. hoo_boy wrote:

    Donna Darko: Carmen “overlooked the connection between street harrassment and sexism”?

    Men *and* women of all ages overlook the connection between their personal attitudes and the acceptability and tolerance of bad, boorish, unacceptable, unwelcome behavior on the streets, in the boardroom, in the schools, in commerce and transit, etc.

    What do we call “sexism”when the same acts take place with different players on the same field under similar/different rules or signals?

    I agree with “the connection” you’re trying to make, but I also know people to practice what they disdain as well– they learn to accept/internalize some crap and pass it on. Explanation, not justification…

    The crap should be called out for what it is by *everyone*– blind eye and deaf ear makes you an accomplice if not a contributor. You’re in a club, hear a man *or* woman going off on another person with sexually or racially or gender or disability or what-not charged language you wouldn’t want applied to you, your friends or family– stick your neck out and stomp it out. Don’t matter if you don’t like ‘em or know ‘em, turn down the heat on the speech.

    P.S. And when did feminism become this contest of “gotcha’s” that every/any woman had to play or get called out on? Dang…

    Posted 12 Jul 2007 at 5:39 pm ¶

14. Donna Darko wrote:

    Carmen and I are Asian. Latoya is black and also agrees Latino and black men do the most catcalling:

    However, most of the more public complaints are leveled against black and latinos - hence the directions I took in the article.

    While Klinger’s comments are somewhat racist, it is undeniable that most of the street attention comes from Black men and Latino men. I am sure that Asian and White men also catcall, but I have never personally experienced it.

    Posted 13 Jul 2007 at 3:17 pm ¶

15. Donna Darko wrote:

    A hasty generalization about all men of color from a times-a-thousand experience is indeed racist. And it ignores reality, namely the statistical reality that all women are more likely to be harassed and assaulted by men who share their ethnic background.

    Yolanda, I’m not Latino or black. It’s not a hasty generalization if it’s something I’ve noticed for thirty-odd years.

    Latoya ends her article this way:

    So while it may be unfair (and racist) to avoid certain groups of men, please understand that while men are just trying to score, women are worried about survival.

    Try not to take it personally, and do us a favor - curb your more ignorant acting friends.

    Posted 13 Jul 2007 at 3:46 pm ¶

16. Yolanda Carrington wrote:

    DD, if you’re just gonna talk to yourself here, I’m finished with this discussion. Obviously my experience and that of other women across the US don’t matter, since it contradicts the conclusions you already have.

    Please realize as well that people from the same backgrounds have different experiences. Just because Latoya and I are Black women doesn’t mean we don’t have differences. Is that so hard to understand?

    Posted 14 Jul 2007 at 12:25 am ¶

17. Sylvia wrote:

    Re: gentrification — that’s an absolutely excellent point about Salustri’s unspoken role in that social movement. You do notice that undercurrent of “well, I’ve chosen to live in this up-and-coming neighborhood now, surely that means everyone now thinks like me and it’s better!” If you did a show on gentrification, it’d be excellent. There was a recent show or movie recently about white LGBT gentrifying a historically black working-class neighborhood and the tensions surrounding their arrival.

    I believe it’s called “Flag Wars.” An excellent commentary by Please Professor Black Woman existed on it, but now I can no longer find it/access it.

    But anyway, while I do appreciate the fact that you and Kai identified the sexist implications of catcalling, I want to bring it back to the fact that it’s just one dimension of many types of unwanted attention males cast upon females. While there may not be intelligent businessmen on the streets screaming “GURL GIMME THAT THURR” or whatever, they bring it into the high echelon clubs. College males take it to the frat parties. It’s a thread of lacking respect for women’s personal space and their right to be lleft alone. I don’t want people to lose focus of that being the point.

    I also enjoyed the hell out of that point about stealing. There have been thieves since there were people. Just watch your shit! Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn’t — but watch your shit! LOL

    Posted 14 Jul 2007 at 11:12 am ¶

18. Wendi Muse wrote:

    here’s some proof of mysoginy/sexism/catcalling/inappopriate behavior toward women by white men, for those of you who were looking for it:

    Members Only

    Posted 15 Jul 2007 at 3:19 pm ¶

19. iamnotstarjones wrote:

    I’m laughing at these women…HARD.

    Can you imagine if I used the behavior of certain members of the Bush Administration justify a hatred of all white people?

    Ridiculous, right?

    But I’m glad these women are using their privilege and voice to let everyone know how quickly personal incidents can be used to indict an entire race of people.

    Posted 15 Jul 2007 at 8:05 pm ¶

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