Now that we know the Virginia Tech gunman was Asian… at Racialicious

Now that we know the Virginia Tech gunman was Asian…

by Carmen Van Kerckhove

Now that we know the Virginia Tech gunman was Asian, I’m bracing myself for the inevitable racist remarks we’ll hear about him. After all, he’s a certifiable bad guy — nobody is going to watch their words. The goal will be to paint him in the worst light possible.

Also, anyone wanna bet that some dude on Fox News will manage to tie this in to illegal immigration somehow? I could see them investigating his family’s immigration status or something like that, and use it as further “proof” of the yellow/brown peril facing America.

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Comments

Dennis Chin wrote:

Oh no. At the very least, his actions blow the model minority myth out of the water. And, I feel you on the Fox News bit. Tagging illegal immigration as the main issue diverts attention from the issue of stricter gun control laws, for which I assume those at Fox News do NOT advocate. I’m curious to see what others will predict.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:06 pm ¶
mike wrote:

I don’t think it’ll be as bad as you portend.

After all, the last … oh, dozen or so violent campus massacres have been committed by white folks.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:16 pm ¶
Brad wrote:

Carmen with all the respect in the world this terrorist’s (I’m calling him for what he was) immigration status should not be overlooked. American’s (you included Carmen) should not have to tolerate dangerous people coming into this country. I don’t want to see a backlash either, but that does not mean we have to ignore a serious problem with how immgration is handled. If something was missed in his immgration background check that would have prevented this tragedy in the first place don’t you think that is worth looking into? Some of the 9/11 hijackers were here illegally afterall.

And Carmen here is something else to consider if there is a problem with immigration that is allowing lunatics such as this man in Virginia into this country and preventing descent folks from coming in, don’t you think that needs to be fixed?

I truly do understand your concern Carmen about racist backlash against asians (my girlfriend is asian) but that doesn’t mean we should ignore some the very real problems with illegal immigration economic and security.

God Bless the Victoms RIP

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:23 pm ¶
Kynn wrote:

I’m afraid they’ve already started.

Brad, meanwhile, is way off in crazy land by jumping right to “illegal immigration.” Surprise, Brad, your Asian girlfriend doesn’t give you a get-out-of-xenophobia-free card.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:45 pm ¶
Kynn wrote:

Also, it’s important to note that there were Asian victims too.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:53 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Brad,

As was expressed upthread, the majority of the preceding school massacres were perpetrated by white American males.

So while this could have been averted by stricter immigration policy IF he was indeed here illegallly, I must (as I did in the drunk-driving post,) ask if the Columbine shootings could’ve been prevented the same way.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 10:57 pm ¶
mike wrote:

“”"I truly do understand your concern Carmen about racist backlash against asians (my girlfriend is asian)”"”

LOL. Classic.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 11:00 pm ¶
Erin J wrote:

Its a shame that anyone would do this. I am so mad because I am sure people saw him going down in his emotions and physically and noone said anything to him. I feel for him.

I hope they don’t drag his name through the mud for this. It was unfortunate. Idk why they had to say his race anyway.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 11:00 pm ¶
Luke wrote:

“At the very least, his actions blow the model minority myth out of the water.”

More than 30 people have been murdered and your thought goes to “well, we took care of that pesky stereotype!”?

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 11:13 pm ¶
Church of shishkaBOB wrote:

I found it funny while switching between CNN, MSNBC, HeadlineNews, & Fox, that FoxNews was the only channel repeatedly and prominently displaying the victim’s profile: 6ft tall, young asian male.

This was early in the day, when the ethnicity of the shooter was unconfirmed and hence the other networks, other than Fox, chose not to emphasize it.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 11:15 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

I find it interesting that Columbine was seen as the ultimate - and tragic - cry for help by two white teenagers, but this guy is getting the terrorist label.

The rumors floating around seem to indicate despair after a failed romance - and feelings of alienation.

Again, it will be interesting to see how this is handled as the case continues.

R.I.P. to all those who suffered, and hopefully the families will be able to recover.

Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 11:21 pm ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:

“I truly do understand your concern Carmen about racist backlash against asians (my girlfriend is asian)”

It was a tragic day. But this really cheered me up.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:17 am ¶
Beechcraft01 wrote:

Geraldo Rivera just commented on his show on Foxnews, “Geraldo At Large”, that one of the possible reasons that led to this alleged Asian gunman to commit such horrible crime is that he, being a Chinese, comes from a socialism country, where he developed his hatred for the capitalism country. This is totally absurd! Don’t take me wrong - I love watching Foxnews; yet some of those comments from Geraldo really makes me wonder how on earth he got hired by Fox?!

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:35 am ¶
Brad wrote:

Kynn while I’m in crazy land jumping right to illegal immigration, you are jumping right into lala land by ignoring some very real problems illegal immigration has caused. For instance in Arizona, Texas, California there is a rather violent gang called MS-13 (I believe that is there name) their operations mostly drug trafficking, illegal arm sales, has flurished because no-one is watching the border. And you know what Kynn do you want to know who they’ve been hurting the most? The HISPANIC Community

If you really give a shit about immigrants why don’t you go after violent criminals who hurt the them? And yes I’am aware that american business’s are making money off these people (they should be held responsible too) , But they aren’t the ones who shoot up neighborhoods night after night, they aren’ the ones selling drugs

Mike I could care less if you believe me or not, I meant it when I said I don’t want a backlash against asians and yes my gf is asian I don’t want her to get hurt I wasn’t using her to deflect criticism from me.

Merq, nothing could have stopped Klebold or Harris from carrying out their terror. There parents were far too stupid to see their son’s very severe issues, law enforcement was far too complacent and undertrained to prepare for such a catastrophe. PS I don’t think this guy in Virginia is an illegal, However if something was missed in his background check when he applied for the visa it should be investigated and fixed. And yes, they should find out how he got two 9mm’s when he shouldn’t have them in the first place.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:42 am ¶
mireille wrote:

http://vccs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2305046635

The above facebook group dedicated to the victims of the VT shooting had to dismantle the discussion thread sections because they had been a really heated (and that’s the nice word for it) discussion about immigration that departed completely from the facts of the shooting. It was so disrespectful I was just…shocked.

I don’t even want to think about the media spin this will receive. As a VA college student who has strong ties to Tech, I’m absolutely devastated. Hopefully, we’re bracing ourselves for nothing and this will be mourned for the tragedy that it is and not turned into something…else. Because thinking about what “else” this could turn into makes me sick.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:01 am ¶
Dave wrote:

I wonder if they mean Asian as in Chinese, Korean etc… My wife is East Indian and on several ocassions she has been referred to as Asian.

My previous experiences cause me to raise this question. Is the media referring to this person as Asian in an effort to avoid offending some Middle Easterners that are sometimes referred to as West Asian or Asian.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:36 am ¶
Gandalf Mantooth wrote:

At Little Green Football(head)s blog, the race speculation began early. And guess what they thought over there in nutbag land? He must’er been a gawl danged A-RAB!!!!!! Even when the mutterings came that the assailant was Asian, they made him out to be Muslim.

Brad
Jesus HF Christ on a stick, how are you going to tell whether or not a person is going to go postal at a bloody immigration interview? Dangerous people?

After this week and last I think I’m gonna go write about Hot Fuzz, something for people to go laugh at.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:51 am ¶
Gandalf Mantooth wrote:

Now that I think about it, I’ve seen or been alerted to three blogs so far that are making this guy’s ethnicity an issue, still trying to make him out to be part of some terrorist group. I plan on making a list and keeping it until there’s been time for us to get through this stuff. Let’s put these racist fools on blast.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:56 am ¶
Big Mike wrote:

I don’t think his being Asian makes any difference. Kimveer Gill, who committed the Dawson College shootings a few months ago, was Sikh. That didn’t make anyone hate people of Indian or Pakistani background. All it did was change my own stereotype that these horrific, cowardly actions are only committed by well-off white boys with too much time on their hands.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 2:09 am ¶
Brandon wrote:

“[T]he issue of stricter gun control laws”

I’m going to respectfully disagree with that, Dennis (I assume you’re advocating that gun control be the central issue).

I believe that the issue at hand here doesn’t lie with gun control (although I’d like to see better gun control laws myself), immigration, or video games (as Jack Thompson so tactlessly pointed out mere hours after the shooting).

I can honestly point to a whole bunch of issues that this incident brings up; but when it comes down to it, I doubt there’s much we can do with legislature.

The common factor in most, if not all, of the big school shootings seems to be emotional or sometimes mental instability/disturbance. Such things are difficult to discover on a large scale. We can’t be paranoid and give out mandatory psych profiles, and we can’t lobotomize everyone.

I believe we should educate people early; teach people the warning signs and be sensitive to each person’s situation. Perhaps create a cirriculum not too unlike sex ed., maybe call it psych ed. Or perhaps broaden health class to encapsulate mental/emotional health as well.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 2:10 am ¶
Colin wrote:

Erin,

I am not too sure that’s a good reason for gunning down 30-plus people, though…

There’s no reason to think he was here illegally as of yet. Supposedly, the thought is that he was a national on a student visa from China.

And for the question (from the link Kynn gave),

“How could there be only one shooter–who was able to go a half mile away to commit a second set of shootings?”

One can only shake their head in sorrow for the poor understanding Schlussel has; to think one person, for whatever reason, can’t walk a half mile in TWO HOURS.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 3:08 am ¶
FEB wrote:

Translating Brad’s GOP-Foxonese Race Talk:

1) I’m going to suck-up to Carmen and say I’m not racist; that’ll give me cover to put illegal immigrants front and center.

2) I’m going to say that illegal immigrants = terrorists, murderers, and other undesirables (never mind the likes of David Koresh, Ted Kazinski, Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph).

3) I’m going to say “terrorists” to induce a siege-mentality; or better yet, I’ll make references to 9/11 to really scare people.

4) I’ll patronize Carmen with lines like “I truly understand your concern about racist backlash,” and for good measure I’ll use my “Asian girlfriend” as a racial shock absorber and credential.

5) Finally, I’m going to add a personal touch of “God Bless the Victoms RIP,” and milk this tragedy for maximum effect.

At long last sir, have you no shame?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 3:13 am ¶
Mark Neighbors wrote:

According to the Chicago Tribune (although this is still unconfirmed) the gunman might have been a Chinese national here legally on a visa.

I worry greatly about the backlash too, especially if this opens a Pandora’s Box of issues about ‘importing’ high tech workers from overseas (particularly India and China), foreign students vs. U.S. students, etc.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 3:20 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:

I’ll bet someone will say, “He was a nice, quiet young man. He kept to himself and never bothered anyone. I never would’ve thought he could do something like this.”

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 3:56 am ¶
Helen wrote:

erin j, you hope that they won’t drag his name in mud after he killed 32 people?!?!???!?!??!?

i don’t understand why you’re defending him, just because he’s asian!?!? that doesn’t make him any less guilty and i really hope that he rots in hell for killing 32 INNOCENT people!!!!! and i certainly do hope that they will give us more information about his identity….there’s NO excuse for what he did, and it’s absolutely sickening to see people defending him only because he’s asian!!!

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 7:18 am ¶
Tina wrote:

CNN Front Page forty minutes ago:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/247/462763634_4776ac1e4c_o.jpg

CNN Front Page a little while later:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/462768520_e4e06b3dc7_o.jpg

Oops.

BBC and “resident Asian student” http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/462763644_3b09cc7037_o.jpg

Guardian Unlimited and “Asian male” http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/462768524_ffaa74141f_o.jpg

The front pages of Fox News, USA Today, NY Times, LA Times, MSNBC, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Chicago Sun-Times and Globe and Mail did NOT mention the shooter’s ethnicity. Only CNN, Guardian and BBC are the ones that I checked that seem to have used it as a headline this morning.

It might change later today.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 7:36 am ¶
merq wrote:

Brad,

I would say something… but FEB’s pretty-much nailed it down.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 7:37 am ¶
Eun-jung wrote:

I agree with LaToya - that was the first thing that hit me when I read the newsreports… when Columbine went down, Kelly Rowland made a song called “Stole” and it became a big hit - about how you should pay attention to all your peers, and recognize that they are in pain — and then all of a sudden an “Asian” shooter appears, and boom! Down with immigration! Another form of foreign terrorists at work!

Did any of the public reports from Columbine list them as terrorists? And if so, were they as widely publicized as the ones that made it seem as though they were the victims?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 7:50 am ¶
S wrote:

Asian Backlash? I don’t think so. Look how quickly they had to add reglion to his identity. They rarely say “Charles Manson, an ex baptist…” The religion of whites and many blacks is never brought into question. So yeah, they certainly DID make good on that double standard for this asian shooter.

However, I don’t see this “Asian” thing lasting long at all. Maybe if he was from Iraq, if he was latino, if he was black, then maybe they’d rub in the race card for a while. I bet it will venture off into general immigration or religion, gun safety, campus saftey, but there will not be a backlash on Asians in general as there might have been if the guy was another race. Asians aren’t usually painted in the crime-bearing, heathen, terrorist light. Not the Chinese, Japanese types, the ones most americans stereotypically identify with Asia (many americans don’t associate Indians or Middle Easterners with Asian - for some strange reason).
Also, notice how quickly they added that he was “here on a visa”. How often do they look into the citizenship of white killers? Black ones? I know a couple white men who are married to hispanic women, and guess which ones aren’t U.S. citizens…the white guys. Yet the question of citizenship only arises when their non-white, non-black wives enter the room.

VT and the authorities can TRY to shift the focus with this race thing until they are blue in the face, but they are still going to have to answer to the parents as to why they didn’t shut down the campus, knowing the gunman wasn’t in custody.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:03 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:

The NY Times, Washington Post, and LA Times all mentioned the Asian ethnicity in their lead articles online. I don’t know if that corresponds to what’s on their front pages, but the issue is no longer unreported, if it ever was. I suspect we’ll hear all sorts of speculation about the shooter’s motivations, including some sort of ethnic resentment.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:13 am ¶
S wrote:

I meant to say religion for whites and many blacks is ALMOST never or RARELY brought into question…

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:30 am ¶
Tina wrote:

^^^Rob, my comment wasn’t on if they mentioned the ethnicity in the articles (which I wouldn’t blame them for, in articles they would also identify “white” or “black” or “Hispanic” as well as “Asian”). What I meant was as of this morning, only three news sources I saw used it as an actual HEADLINE.

The press conference just released info that the shooter was a South Korean on a visa (not Asian-American) named Cho Seung-Hui, 23, English major.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:35 am ¶
Tina wrote:

I think I just commented that the shooter was on a visa. Sorry, he’s actually a permanent resident.

From ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108

“April 17, 2007 — Cho Hui Seung, a resident alien of the United States, a South Korean national and a Virginia Tech senior has been identified as the gunman in the shootings that left 33 people dead on the Virginia Tech campus Monday, ABC News has learned.

The student killed two people in a dorm room, returned to his dorm room where he re-armed and left a “disturbing note” before entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage, sources said.

Cho’s identitiy has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials. It is believed that he was the shooter in both incidents yesterday. Sources say Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol, sources said. Witnesses had also told authorities that the shooter was carrying a backpack. Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.

In all, the massacre at Virginia Tech left 33 people dead — including Cho himself — in the worst shooting in moder American history.”

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:39 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

Brad -

terrorists, 9/11 , God Bless the Victims??

Seriously now.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:00 am ¶
Kynn wrote:

Asians aren’t usually painted in the crime-bearing, heathen, terrorist light. Not the Chinese, Japanese types, the ones most americans stereotypically identify with Asia…

I don’t know, I have seen some pretty nasty things said about Koreans. And this is going to make it worse.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:19 am ¶
Ailurophile wrote:

My prayers and sympathy go out to all those affected by the shooting.

I think it’s been established that most of these spree killers (Columbine and the man who shot all those Amish kids, to name two) are/were white. However, no-one has pointed out that just about all mass murderers are male. I wonder how much of this has to do with the upbringing of boys in our culture, and many others. Real men don’t cry, real men don’t show their feelings, and carried to an extreme it means that a few (not all, not even many) men will grab a gun and kill people in response to a failed romance or other frustrations. I have to ask, what’s wrong with us?

Not to mention seemingly lax campus security, and the fact that just about any nimrod can get a gun, but those have been covered…

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:26 am ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

Let’s lay off the personal attacks please. See the moderation rules here:

http://tinyurl.com/2gosd5

“3. Don’t make personal attacks. If you’re not smart enough to win an argument without resorting to calling someone fat, stupid, crazy, or whatever, maybe you should work on your rhetorical skills.”

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:34 am ¶
KXB wrote:

Carmen,

I certainly agree with you that personal attacks on this forum should be avoided, but I think your very initial posting was a bit reckless. You went from simply identifying the gunman as Asian to worrying about what “might” be the reaction of some people to that info. If you waited to find an actual instance of someone spouting some idiocy such as that, you would have been on firmer ground.

Second, it certainly appears that your outrage is a bit tempered given the shooter’s ethnicity. If this were a white guy, would you be as concerned about what the media “might” say? Or would you cite this hypothetical white shooter’s actions as being an outgrowth of the increasing intolerance of America?

If it were a repeat of the Beltway Snipers, meaning a couple of black guys - what would be the proper response. Do we lower the bar for outrage depending on race? It sure seems that way. We already do it based on sex - if a man kills his kids, he’s a monster. If a woman kills her kids, she’s sick and needs help.

Now that the gunman has been ID’d as a Korean national, there will be probably be some racist remarks in online forums, which is not a big deal. That is like scrawling your thoughts on a bathroom wall. The concern should be whether there will be harassment of Asians - if and when that happen, then your intial post will have more relevance. Until then, it comes across as petulant whininess.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:44 am ¶
Brad wrote:

FEB

1 showing respectful dissagreement isn’t sucking up, people who suck up don’t dissagree

2 I did not generalize anyone sir, I stated factually that illegal immigration (note i never said immigrants) but immigration has brought alot of crime and economic turmoil to the respective communities and on a side note yes illiegal immgration from white nations is also a problem: In 1999 the war between NATO and Yugoslavia left thousands as refugess. Some of the War criminals who took part in ehtnic cleansing disguised themselves as refugees to escape punishment some came to here to the US.

3. Yes I referred the man as a terrorist , what do you call killing 33 innocent people for no reason other than your mad? I know white people can be terrorists I mention the two Columbine killers and I said they were terrorists. Just because I did not mention every single example of white terrorism doesn’t mean I don’t see their actions in the same light.

4. For the second time yes I did mention my gf, if there is a severe backlash (I don’t believe there will be, but if there is ) chances are she could be effected so yes I’am concerned.

5. Praying for the victims and asking for God’s blessing milks nothing. They are the ones who have been effected by all this. Not YOU, not ME. If I was milking this for all it was worth than others on this forum were too.

FEB why don’t you and others actually debate me on some of the issues I raise such as the Ms-13 gang terrorising the southern border, how about the fact that there is some very real concerns about how legal visas are handed out or how immigration is enforced when some students decide they don’t want to return to their home country?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:47 am ¶
Gandalf Mantooth wrote:

KXB,

If you were paying attention you’d note that the race speculation started hours before Carmen’s post on this subject. In fact, if you look at the time codes on comments from some blogs, you would see that it started almost immediately, which makes her prescient. However, considering what we’ve seen over the last week (last 5 years?) regarding race, ethnicity, and the Internets, it was an EASY call to make.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:07 am ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

KXB, thanks for your comment.

Given the fact that racist remarks are made on mainstream radio and TV talk/news shows on a daily basis, I don’t really see how it’s “reckless” for me to worry about how this will play out.

And no, I don’t believe our level of “outrage” should be linked to the perpetrator’s race. Did I say that anywhere?

However, I also don’t believe in using dehumanizing language like “evil” and “monster” and “savage” when describing people who do horrible things. Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I think that all human beings are capable of the worst, given specific situations.

> If this were a white guy, would you be as concerned about what the media “might” say?

No I wouldn’t, because I have never seen all white people being characterized as evil/criminalistic based on the actions of one or a few. Most serial killers are white males, but I have yet to see any mainstream media outlets urging their readers to steer clear of all white men.

Have you?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:07 am ¶
KXB wrote:

Carmen,

I’m afraid you’re overlooking some recent history. The Beltway Snipers went un-caught for several weeks because all the “pros” kept insisting that shootings of this type were committed by white men - although no one saw the shooters. Even when their van, which matched descriptions by eyewitnesses, was found driving around, they were not followed because the men were black, and police were told to look for white guys. So, because law enforcement was using some racial assumptions, despite no hard evidence, more people died.

Whites not generalized as being criminal? Ask the Italians. Whites not generalized as evil? Germans who have yet to be born will be apologizing for the horrors committed in WWII.

While you may object to the terms “evil” and “monster” (which is your right), I have fewer such objections. If you cannot allow for the term evil to be used for a man who guns down 32 people - then it should be expunged from all conversation. Inversely, the term “good” and “hero” becomes worthless. If condemnation is no longer considered permissable in polite society, then giving praise to accomplishment should be considered equally ill-mannered. If you wish to object to the terms “evil” and “monster” being applied to Cho, you would be better served by founding out something redeemable about him that we do not know. An absolute ban on such language is both unworkable and unwarranted.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:19 am ¶
Melissa wrote:

Ailurophile,

I thought your comments were spot on! Let`s hope the media touches on that more.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:25 am ¶
Eun-jung wrote:

I agree with Carmen. I think that all human beings are capable of the worst in certain situations.

And there has never been a history of reporters or media telling people to steer away from white people.

I have to say that I will be on my guard for the next several weeks- I fear the backlash. In the end, people only see color, they don’t see the person entirely. It’s sad, but it’s the honest truth.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:31 am ¶
Undercover Black Man wrote:

Well, Carmen, you knew it was coming. So here it is. From “traditionalist conservative” blogger and anti-immigration pamphleteer Lawrence Auster, who titled his latest blog post: “The Virginia Tech killer was a South Korean English major named Cho Seung-Hui”

Here’s Mr. Auster’s take:

“Has anyone ever added up the number of white Americans killed by non-white immigrants over the years, starting with the murder of Frank Lloyd Wright’s mistress Margaret Cheney, her two children, and three house guests and the burning down of Wright’s home Taliesen by a black immigrant servant in 1914, up to the murder of New York City actress Adrienne Shelley by illegal alien Diego Pillco in November 2006? It is not an insignificant number. Whatever the number, barely a week passes in which a white American is not killed by a non-white immigrant or illegal alien.

“Is that a racist thing to say? The fact is that immigration is by itself a traumatic experience, and that the immigration of poor non-whites into a prosperous, majority-white country often (and predictably) triggers feelings of racial alienation, racial envy, and racial hostility on the part of the non-white immigrant toward the white majority population.”

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:36 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

Ailurophile - Good point about males being raised in the culture of aggression.

Personally, I am left wondering if we as a nation learned anything from Columbine. I was still in high school when that went down, so I remember tense discussions about bullying, metal detectors, clothing bans, and the dangers of fostering a culture of mistrust.

Video games, music, and the other causes were really smokescreens in my opinion - a way to argue about other topics that distracted from the real issue: the fact that people in our society feel so worthless, so devalued, so full of rage that they chose to take the life of others.

Another human life can only be valued if you place value on your own.

I wonder what was going through the shooter’s mind. I believe ABC referenced “a disturbing note” - what did the note say?

This guy was a senior, ready to graduate. Why did he choose to throw it all away?

I feel like we need to spend time seeking these answers - not every person who has to cope with feelings of alienation and pain takes out their aggression on others. Some internalize it themselves, choosing to take their own lives in high school and college, before they have even begun to truly live.

My mind keeps asking why.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:36 am ¶
daddyinastrangeland wrote:

Latest from Reuters:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=08248e5f-86d3-41a9-acfe-f7df7c0e149b
Cho immigrated with his parents in 1992, that makes it since he was 9 years old. His parents are Virginia residents.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:39 am ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

Thanks daddyinastrangeland. That means Cho’s been in the U.S. longer than I have.

And thanks for the link to the post, Undercover Black Man.

Everyone don’t worry. I’m an immigrant too but I’ll do my best to temper my “feelings of racial alienation, racial envy, and racial hostility on the part of the non-white immigrant toward the white majority population.”

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:43 am ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

btw, I’m surprised no one has blamed hip hop yet.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:44 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

Re: Condemnation of Terms/People

Interesting discussion up thread.

I personally hate to label people as “monsters” or “evil” because it kills the conversation. Saying someone is a monster and shaking our heads allows us to conveniently ignore the cause of their actions. By shoving that person outside of the mainstream, we can create a seperation between “evil them” and “sensible us.”

And that seperation ensures that we are caught unawares again and again - we have never looked at the cause, we just brushed it under the carpet.

While I do believe there are real human monsters - people who rape or kill without remorse - those people are few and far between. For the rest of humanity, there is a reason. There is a cause.

And it is our responsibility to always ask why.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:50 am ¶
Kynn wrote:

Cho immigrated with his parents in 1992, that makes it since he was 9 years old.

This is why it’s inappropriate to always jump to the conclusion, as Brad did, that a non-white person is going to be someone who can be “screened by immigration:”

PS I don’t think this guy in Virginia is an illegal, However if something was missed in his background check when he applied for the visa it should be investigated and fixed.

As Gandalf wrote, there’s no way to screen for “only good guys get in,” let alone when you’re talking about 9 year olds.

Diverting this from a discussion of a horrible crime to the “MS-13″ Mexican gangs and illegal immigration simply because the shooter was non-white seems a huge stretch, Brad. You are really reaching to push this agenda, and it offends me that you go off on such a diversion simply to attack immigrants.

Furthermore, as someone who lives in Arizona, in a predominantly Latina/o area, I really resent your statement that I should be out “going after” Mexican gangs to show that I “give a shit” about the Chicano community.

I really would appreciate it, Brad, if you would drop the offensive and inappropriate nativism. That is as much against the rules as personal attacks are:

8. Don’t respond to a post or comment by saying “why don’t you focus on some REAL issues like the war/starving children in Africa/police brutality/etc.” Newsflash: this is a blog about race and pop culture. If you’re not interested in discussing the intersection of those two things, please go elsewhere.

Telling me to go fight Mexican gangs instead of talking about the issue at hand breaks that rule, Brad.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:21 am ¶
Rabia wrote:

I think Debra Dickerson said recently that the worst thing about racism is you never see it coming. Even as a black female, I must admit that I can’t count the number of times when I’ve found myself to be incredibly naive about the depth and persisteance of racism. Sometimes it’s as simple as not gettin gthe punchline of a “joke” b/c I’m unaware of the ethnic/national sterotype upon which it is based. And other times, it’s shock at how quickly ppl jump to conclusions to validate their prejudices. The links to dailyKos simply sent a chill down my spine. 32 people die, and the first thing ppl can think of is picking at any evidence that the perpetrator is arab??? I swear sometimes it makes me fell like there’s something wrong with me for not making racist assumptions. I simply don’t see how people make the connection from “asian student” to “illegal immigrant arab terrorist” when logic and common sense point prety much in the opposite direction. Most foreign students are on visas. Ppl go through hell to get these visas, often as a pathway to permanent residency. Most such shooting rampages have nothing to do with terrorism but seem to result either from a desire for personal revenge or suicidal impulses.

As for the suggestions of problems with imigration, I agree that perhaps some cursory psychological evaluation could be part of the legal immigration process, but I really don’t see how that would have prevented something like this. For one thing I doubt guns are as easily available in South Korea as they are in Virginia. And honestly, I find that the fact that foreign nationals are commiting this sort of rampage in the US is a sign that something about American culture is playing a role (a discussion for another time maybe), in which case a previous evaluation would have done absolutely nothing.

I’m just incredibly saddened and shocked not only at the events themselves (adn the way the university handled the situation) but at the reactions that have emerged.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:21 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

Everyone don’t worry. I’m an immigrant too but I’ll do my best to temper my “feelings of racial alienation, racial envy, and racial hostility on the part of the non-white immigrant toward the white majority population.”

wouldn’t you only be partially (1/2?) alienated, jealous and hostile?

I notice a theme: they hate us b/c we’re free, they hate us b/c they’re jealous….

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:25 am ¶
If I had a nickel... wrote:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=7&f=/c/a/2007/04/17/MNGFCP9UL21.DTL

When was this taken I wonder? When was it first leaked that the suspect was Asian? And could it be that the first 2 shootings were not taken seriously because of this fact? And I am not familiar with Virginia Tech, but all the media photos suggest a school in America’s heartland…I do not necessarily mean this in a pejorative sense, but just to the emphasize the outsider status of the shooter….I’ve been watching the interviews with witnesses and survivors, and only cautiously do they identify the shooter as an Asian guy…

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:35 am ¶
Kynn wrote:

You can read about the “unidentified man” in this post on my journal — he is a Korean-American student photojournalist who “fit the profile.”

Another Asian man, Chinese-American this time, was fingered by people the Internet as “the shooter” because of his LiveJournal, and has received death threats.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:08 pm ¶
Susan Y wrote:

I’m bracing myself for the backlash, too. “That train is NEVER late!”

I hate that Cho’s depiction as a perpetual outsider is so apparent. He immigrated as a child, so he’s a bred and raised Virginian. Culturally, socially, he’s probably Virginian/American. But even in his final horrendous act, which is typically perpetuated by white american males for what may turn out similar feelings of alienation, he is seen as an outsider due to his ethnicity. I dare some article to emphasize his americanness, but no one will.

As for the ridiculous calls for tighter immigration and labelling Cho a terrorist, they are illogical and senselessly reactionary and racist. His profile matches “homegrown disaffected youth” like the columbine shooters. He is essentially an american, matching the profile of these young tragic american men. Clamping down on immigration is a red herring, my friends, and one that feeds the racist monkey at that.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:34 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

Finally -

Info on the note, shooter’s personality:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18155081/

From the article:

“The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing identified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.”

Setting a fire, stalking women and this guy wasn’t suspended from school/placed under evaluation?

It says he was referred to counseling but it appears to have been voluntary rather than required…

WTF?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:55 pm ¶
kim wrote:

Latoya: “This guy was a senior, ready to graduate. Why did he choose to throw it all away?”

The NPR newscast I heard last night said he’d been upset at having to defend (and present) his Master’s thesis for the second time.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 12:57 pm ¶
M wrote:

thank GOODNESS people are acknowledging that perpetrators of mssacres such as VA tech and columbine are almost all male. and that it stems from the failure of this culture to support appropriate outlets for males to express their emotions.

i also agree with carmen that, in a forum such as this, we should try to steer clear of describing one another as “evil” or “savage” or whatever genius adjectives are out there. if anyone caught the clip of the interview with the psychiatrist on msnbc, he mentions how horrific acts such as shooting massacres is deep-rooted in someone’s personal background; he didn’t just “go mad.” and i think that’s what carmen was trying to say; that anyone can be capable of this given the “right” situations. the guy was a product of his own up-bringing. if anything, i would blame society for producing a culture that lacks in compassion and prioritizes capitalism, aggression, and cost-saving solutions that aren’t necessarily better for us as a nation and on a micro-level in the long-run.

as for the immigration backlash, i think people need someone to blame. while i think it’s a very valid concern, i also think it’s misinformed. first of all, the guy came here when he was 8 YEARS OLD. how is anyone supposed to screen an 8-year-old??? also, crime and mental illness crosses all boundaries, as i’m sure we all know. someone mentioned smokescreens, and i think it’d be a mistake to make immigration/race the culprit of what is truly going on which is the absence of support for people who are in anguish mentally and emotionally. the psychiatrist in the interview mentioned this, but he got like, 1 minute of air-time, easy to skim over what i think would be a very important step in this area of prevention work. what do others think?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:30 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:

Susan I agree

NYT (”Thousands of South Korean students go to the United States annually to get American college diplomas. Diplomas from Ivy League universities and other well-known American schools, as well as English proficiency, are coveted in the South Korean job market.”)

For Christ’s sake, the man came here as a kid? What the hell does this have to w/ anything?

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 1:33 pm ¶
FrancesM wrote:

I hate to add yet another comment but here goes…

I find it interesting that the “settlers” & “pioneers” who immigrated here illegally caused the greatest amount of carnage this counrty has ever seen. Not only that were still very much affected by the brutality of people who are considered “founders” of this country. If only background checks could have been done then…

Bringing this young mans ethnicity & migration status into this tragic event only takes away from what in my humble opinion is the heart of the matter- violence. Regardless of this persons background his violence is a reflection of a culture that embraces violence. We love/hate violence here. And everywhere I suppose. All humans are capable of great beauty & great harm. No one is exempt & to pretend that race, nationality, gender, sexuality or anything else has anything to do with what folks are capable of is silly & defeats progress to peace.
~F

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 3:40 pm ¶
Ananse wrote:

Blacksburg is not far from my father’s ancestral roots in the US, so I’ve zoned out of commentary and finger-pointing to concentrate on the hole that Cho Seung-Hui has left.

Some of you may know the area, some may not. Montgomery County in VA has three cities and towns to speak of tucked in the hills: Blacksburg (where VA Tech is), Christiansburg, and Radford, as well as a bunch of smaller communities.

Let’s be blunt, it’s about 90% white, 4% black, 4% asian, and 2% everything else. Of the 39,000+ folks who live there, 26,000 are the students who go to Tech. But keep in mind that before Blacksburg annexed Tech in the 70s, there were fewer than 10,000 people living in the area proper, descended from settlers, pioneers, slaves, and natives.

Though disputes still rage about who was which in other parts of the state, this is one of the few areas where the population is small enough, and records and memory relatively precise enough for everyone involved, folks remember who was who. It’s home…

Like nearly every part of VA, slaves existed in this part of the state West of the Blue Ridge mountains; unlike other parts of the state– especially the eastern and coastal parts– slaves made up no more than 20% of the population.

Delegates from this part of the state, in fact, led an insurgency in the state legislature to eliminate slavery in opposition to the eastern delegation’s economic and political power, as well as in the wake of Nat Turner’s attempted rebellion. The eastern push of slavery won out, however, though not without heated and violent disputes (e.g. West Virginia’s separation from Virginia after Virginia’s 1861 secession from the US), with this area barely choosing to remain one of western Virginia’s county.

Though slaves, blacks could become freed by will of their owners, or if born to free black *or* white mothers. It didn’t mean that you could enjoy the same liberties as “white freedom”, or that you’d even be welcome to stay to stay in the county (!), but you weren’t a slave and you were alive at least, the thinking went…

Each war, each major domestic and world event engaged the area’s small population to huge effect, along a timeline a time in which VA Tech grew (135 years next academic year), technology and transportation infrastructure made the hills less distant and remote, segregation took place increasingly more by class than race (though there was always a generation of whites to remind their kids and blacks of the way things “used to be”…), but also brought a greater degree of liberation and conscience as the area gradually did better for itself as a whole.

Thanks to early investments by the state preceding the tech boom– especially the innovative Blacksburg Electronic Village, the area absorbed more wealth and diversity through a concentrated rise in population given its space and size, such that it’s even hosted it’s 48th annual International Street Fair, just concluded this past weekend, celebrating the diversity of cultures in the area from local to Nepalese.

This isn’t just some random mountain community with a bunch of hicks. This is a place with history, with the people descended from different stripes in the same small community who built the streets and signposts that bear their names. So when something bad hits anyone, they’ll feel it and extend that love all over those hills, to all those victims regardless of who they are and where they came from. Once you’re at Tech, “those people” become “their people”. It isn’t perfect, but it’s a community.

I also note with sad irony that this area gave birth to sick f*** serial killer Henry Lee Lucas. So if Cho Seung-Hui has a kindred spirit in arms who transcends his race, and if he may actually be judged by his behavior, state of mind, and/or actions on an equal footing with others who fit the profile before him, not by race but by deed, that would indeed be a sad, but fair, gauge of how far we’ve come.

Tomorrow, I’ll let the debate resume among the chickens and eggheads concerning which does more damage, people or guns. Bless us, but heaven help us all: it’s not crazy white males that’ll shoot up and destroy your public safety– it’s crazy people with easy access to guns, period.

Today, I’m going to mourn, extend my thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families whom you will discover cut across a diversity of background and experiences.

I will focus on the loss of life, opportunity, experience, potential, safety, security, peace, stability, trust, for this place and community to which I have a strong roots and ties. They have not asked for the outpouring they’ve received, but i know they could sure use it, sans cynicism or overkill.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 4:45 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

People calling him a terrorist, which is the dumbest thing I heard, this dude was a nutjob who finally burst at the seams and killed 32 people. the word “Terrorist” is getting thrown around like dirty laundry in this country. Last week I hear Jason Whitlock call Sharpton and Jackson terrorists and now this shooter. Please…

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 5:44 pm ¶
julie wrote:

aol presented a couple of plays this gunman wrote for a creative writing class. it’s too premature to make conclusions, but from his immature writing style and violent, sexual (somewhat homoerotic) content, it seems that this man was possibly sexually abused. i hope the public will sympathize and attempt to understand that sexual abuse and violence engulfs any and most every culture.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 5:59 pm ¶
ryanmffjm wrote:

If modern American males are truly being raised “in a culture of agression” why was it so easy for one untrained and unstable person to take out 32 people and injure dozens more with a simple handgun. What happened to the fight in our natural “fight or flight intincts?” I appears (on the surface at least) that none of the “aggresive” young men in that buidling did much to overpower the shooter and try to stop him in the face of certain death. What would any of you do in this situation, sit around and wait to be shot to death, or try to do something to save your one life or somebody elses? It was 40 plus against one person! There is lot more to learn about this case. However, the race and residency status of the killer is completely irrelevant.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 6:33 pm ¶
ryanmffjm wrote:

BTW, Brad “my girlfriend in Asian.” You must be new to this web-site if you didn’t know that was not going to get an imediate, and deserved, negative response.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 6:47 pm ¶
hoo_boy wrote:

When I heard about this yesterday morning, man, geebus, I didn’t want to think about the potential and actual media spin either.

But see, then I connected me some dots when I was talking with folks and looking around on line, see… Given what’s happened, and in light of the discussion here, I think it’s right healthy and important to get ALL the stuff on the table what folks are thinking and feeling– as long as folks are acting good to each other, especially now. Here’s what’s been in my head the past 24:

(1) To: Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Secretary of Education Margaret Spelling and… aw hell the whole domestic policy team in the Bush Administration– can you not take a hint from the universe and karma? Today (Tuesday) Gonzales was supposed to be testifying about the dismissal of eight federal prosecutors and his generally goofy tenure in charge of the Justice Department, explaining why the botched War on Terror is more important than things like, say, crime prevention. Thanks to yesterday’s tragedy, he gets two additional days with which to prepare his defense.

(2) Yet wasn’t only last October 10 that Gonzales, Spellings, the First Lady, and bunch of law enforcement and education policy types held a special summit– two weeks after the Nickel Mines horror– and right before the election– “to discuss the nature of the problem and federal action that can help communities prevent violence and deal with its aftermath”? Wasn’t his was the same Conference on School Safety where two 19 year-old twin brothers who, asking about assault weapons, were blown off by the attorney general with a smug laugh and a exhortation to the standing room only crowd to focus on those breaking the law? A gathering held to discuss school violence where the word “guns” was *never* uttered? Where one of the top solutions was to reinstate mandatory school prayer?

(3) The population isn’t so numbed by a culture of overload, excess, and violence that it can’t be affected enough to stop, watch, and feel something/anything when it happens to people or a community previously unknown

(4) Immediacy of student eyewitness accounts, before they’ve had a chance to process their own emotions and experiences, feels assaultive and intrusive and might hamper decent investigative and healing efforts. Increasingly this has to substitute for actual reporting on the part of networks caught off guard by the story. I’m still struck by Jamal Albarghouti, who via his cellphone, captured the best audio clip of the gunfire and uploaded it to CNN”s website from which then every network had to run it via credit to CNN.

(5) CBS and NBC were the only networks to air live with their main anchors last night, but only NBC did it outside with the people. Overpriced and underperforming CBS diva Katie did it inside. ABC’s Chuck won’t be there ’til Tuesday. Creepiest line from CNN anchor Don Lemon to the students: “Stay out of harm’s way,… but send us your pictures and video.”

(6) NBC was the only network to preempt reruns with a special, otherwise all networks continued to air primetime programs as usual. Compare to primetime coverage of Katrina, deaths of popes amd presidents, and past school massacres. Thank the business of pressure of the media environment in which. hey, advertisers rule and cutbacks in the news division are necessary. WIth little new information forthcoming as the day wore on, the networks (including Fox broadcast)didn’t want/couldn’t afford to risk money from schedule cuts.

(7) CNN, MSNBC, and yes FOX (cable) acquitted themselves well, especially in light of (6). On cable, CNN aired first, Fox 5 mins after, and MSNBC one minute after Fox. By most accounts, Fox behaved itself and did a better job than CNN, keeping a more accurate tally throughout the day. This actually isn’t the first time they’ve been credited for such. While their programming leaves much to be questioned. Fox is credited with one of the hardest working, most entrepreneurial field teams in the industry.

(8) Many of the papers have actually been releasing the news in blog-form– i.e. the old fashioned way– short bits of info as its coming out. The reason it’s been taking so long is that there were two large crime scenes with 33 bodies, numerous witnesses who were snagged by the press before the police, evidence that needs to be collected, and issues in protocol, procedure, practice, and communications that’s going to be an issue of discussion between the State Police, campus, and local authorities. You’re getting the issues much more quickly than any previous incident, indeed, hence the fragmented narrative.

(9) This was all-too-familiar because on-campus violence is happening more frequently *and* people are paying more attention to it as an issue of concern so it’s finally getting covered. We are, however, as a humans and a society, going to inevitably take great pains to go off on tangents, point fingers, look for cures before we identify symptoms, etc. We witnessed the most violent extreme, but by no means, only form of violence affecting a school and community and victims from a cross-section of demographics. The more we know, the less we’ll still know. The real issue is what is to be done, if anything, now?

(10) Noted with interest: the 1994 federal assault weapons law, passed with a 10 year sunset provision, banned the sale and manufacture of military-style, semi-automatic guns including 19 specific arms. Bush administration opted not to renew the ban when it expired September 2004. Noted with curiosity: yesterday’s response from the National Rifle Association without further comment:

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=8442

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 7:03 pm ¶
Koko wrote:

I guess I missed the conversation.

But I agree Carmen. I just had a gut feeling that the fact that the shooter is Asian would start something.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 8:35 pm ¶
FEB wrote:

Brad,

There are more holes in your arguments than I care to count, and frankly I don’t have time for them all. So let’s stick to your choice word: “terrorist.”

In at least three well-respected dictionaries, the term “terrorist” is defined as a person who engages in acts of violence and intimidation for IDEOLOGIAL AIMS, usually POLITICAL IN NATURE.

All we know about the gunman is that he was a social recluse and probably had mental and emotional problems. There is nothing indicating he was a “terrorist” in the official or popular sense of the word. The fact that you chose such a loaded word as “terrorist,” reveals a desire to FEARMONGER and conjure images of 9/11. Indeed, I haven’t even heard FOX use the term “terrorist.”

The manner in which you tried to frame the issues suggests either naiveté or intellectual dishonesty.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 9:18 pm ¶
Brad wrote:

Kynn understand something I made my comments while every bit of information was saying he was a student on a visa. However in light of recent updated info I will say that nothing about his immigration status would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. I still however stand by my comment at the beginning. If he was a student on a visa, his background should be re-checked. Yes if something was missed in a immigrants background check like a history of violent offenses, mental issues and the such, that should be investigated and fixed if necessary that is all I ever said, I never said student visas should be shut down.

Kynn I apologize for my harsh language directed towards you. I clearly violated the rules and I’am sorry.

However I was also offended that you chose to mock me instead of debating me, when all i suggested was that Cho’s status be looked into. Ie how he got here what his background shows and if anything can be done to change things for the better. But you insulting me doesn’t give me a free pass to retaliate like a thug, I’am sorry for that.

In hindsight me mentiong my Gf was a mistake on my part. However I did not intend to use her as a shield from criticism, but merely to show I was concerned about a backlash and did not want harm to come to her or anyone else. But that was a mistake on my part especially when I knew that was a major complaint on this website. I’am human afterall.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 10:44 pm ¶
RedBrick wrote:

KXB raises a good point that racism on the part the law enforcement may have hurt their chance to stop the shooter before he killed even more people on the other side of campus. Has anyone else noticed that part of the reason that classes were allowed to go on that morning was that police saw the first shooting in the dormitory as an isolated ‘domestic’ incident? The two first victims were a Black man and White woman and when police got on the scene they considered it a murder-suicide. Even though Ryan Clark was a triple major about to start graduate work in neuroscience, he was still a Black man with a dead White woman nearby. Tech’s administration already jumped to conclusions enough by 9:00AM to hold meetings about what to tell students, according to the BBC, when they could have been looking for the killer.

As a Black woman who grew up in rural Virginia, I have seen authority figures there jump to conclusions that have cost lives, with little more than their bias as backups. I hardly have to remind readers here about Virginia’s reprehensible racial history. Some has changed, but not much.

If the available police resources could have fanned out across campus, or if the decision had been made to shut classes down instead of assuming it was a domestic situation based on the victims’ genders and races, it’s possible that not as many lives would have been so needlessly lost.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:15 pm ¶
Brad wrote:

Feb it actually does appear his aims were ideological . He made several writings that were extremely dark and disturbing and very anti-social. The definition of terrorism is a person who engages in acts of violence for Ideological aims USUALLY political in nature. You are right FEB when you say that. Chu it seems was murdering these people for ideological reasons ( a very anti-social ideology) not political. I agree I was very aggressive to a fault in some of what I said here. Calling this person a Terrorist is not something I regret Intellectually or factually. He did commit mass murder after all.

Posted 17 Apr 2007 at 11:39 pm ¶
M wrote:

Brad

I don’t understand how a background check on Cho would’ve prevented anything. He was 8 years old when he came here. I can’t help but feel that you’re using this one incident as an excuse to push an agenda against immigrants. I hope that’s not the case.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 12:37 am ¶
Unarmed Canadian wrote:

I stumbled across this site yesterday. I just wanted to mention a major mentality difference between our two countries, which is very obvious when reading through all these posts. After the Poly-Technique, Concordia and Dawson College shootings, the immediate reaction was always, predictably to stress stricter gun control. Everyone here seems to agree with an opinion I’ve held for years; that it’s the shooters mental state that caused the situation. In the aftermath, recovery and well-being of the victims and their families is vastly more essential than more laws, that only penalize law abiding citizens.
These are sad times, when our children aren’t safe in school. We need to exhaust every means possible to predict and prevent these incidents. As with everything in life, stuff will happen, and no amount of planning can prevent everything. Virginia is a conceal-carry state, but does not allow carry on school property. How many lives could have been spared if there was just 1 CCW Permit holder on that floor?

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 2:40 am ¶
jared wrote:

the 32 deceased were victims of mr cho. mr cho was a victim of depression and social isolation (read: mental disorder).

in an era of ever-increasing mental anguish for so many people, and in an environment such as firearms-saturated america, these events are an unfortunate, deeply disturbing, and, of course, sad inevitibility.

my sympathies are with all of those affected.

whilst mr cho is a korean citizen, and this may have increased a feeling of social isolation, i make the supposition that this is otherwise incidental. korean-ness or asian-ness is not a prerequisite for depression, anxiety, or the committing of a heinous act of violence.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 3:19 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

“How many lives could have been spared if there was just 1 CCW Permit holder on that floor?”

Mental illness + easy gun access = murder.

This won’t change. The 2nd amendment/gun culture is ingrained in us too deeply. Mental illness is part of the human condition.

As far as CCW, you’d need someone w/ a good eye, steady hand, steel nerves and a willingness to kill to be able to respond ACCURATELY to that pressure. Joe/Jane Q. Public w/ a 38 in his/her holster/garter won’t do that. Someone would have just gotten blown to pieces in the crossfire.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 8:05 am ¶
Kmoney wrote:

Happened this morning.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the incident and she said “boy, this really puts the Vietnamese students at colleges in a whole new light, huh?”

wtf?

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 8:37 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:

ryanmffjm: I’m just going to repeat what I said on Rachels Tavern -

“By the accounts we’ve had so far, the students were in classrooms, not in one big area. There was no information about what was going on, or how many shooters there were, etc. Most (all?) of them didn’t even know there had BEEN an earlier shooting.

So picture being at a desk or a table, sitting [edit: probably with yoru back to the door], hearing something that may be shots, or firecrackers, or construction, or a backfire. At some point you realize that no, this is really something serious, but you again have no idea where the shooter is or how many people are involved. And students DID try (and succeed) in keeping the guy OUT of classrooms AS HE WAS FIRING INTO THEM, barricading doors (that did not lock) with desks, etc. ”

Also would like to add that one professor (the Romanian Holocaust survivor - out of respect, I’m not going to attempt to misspell is name but it’s in the news) got in the way of bullets meant for students, while some got out through the windows. He died for them. I’m sure we’re going to hear more about how people survived, etc.

So instead of saying, why didn’t they all gang up on him, consider the circumstance. This was not happening in a crowded gym, it was happening in hallways and closed classroom doors in a large building. And until you have LIVED THROUGH SOMETHING EXACTLY LIKE THIS, you cannot predict how you would have responded differently (better) than those students.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 8:40 am ¶
Luke Pharma wrote:

…adding to Lyonside:

What will also emerge: the horror of discovering NO EXIT when an armed madman– uncertain if acting alone or in concert– is laying siege to your learning environment, and indiscriminate waste to those around you. Fight-or-flight is flicked on neither by convenience of will nor condition of gender just as rage or mental illness is not a condition of any one race or culture.

Separate thought: anyone looking to understand and mitigate this troubled young man’s actions: why him any more than the “usual crazy lone white male social outcasts” who’ve preceded him in their violent ways? Would people here be just as curious to “know” this person if he were another disaffected white kid? Would it just be assumed he’d be a poor country kid to boot?

If this gunman gets more attention and possible sympathy or at least the request that his race should play no part in *any* examination– when statistically it breaks all previous patterns, stands to yield some evidence, and already clouds how we discuss previous crimes and perpetrators of this sort, I don’t know what else to think apart from double standard. It’s not his culture, but it is about him, and they’re going to need to get as much detail and insight as possible.

The media accounts are not psychiatric evidence, so all the armchair analysis is kind of hard to stomach until facts are in.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 9:45 am ¶
Brad wrote:

From what it looks like now the Virginia state gun-control policies need to be tighter even though I’am proponent of the Right to Bear Arms. Now everyone is saying he was institutionlized for mental health and had a restraining order apparently. The question does need to asked “how the hell he got a TWO guns after he was institutionlized”. I will side with the gun-control people on this one.

Yes I will admit that immigration is a non-factor in this case.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 10:20 am ¶
Andi wrote:

To ryanmffjm:

Lyonside and Luke hit it right on the head. When I first heard about the shooting I wondered, what would I have done? What *could* I have done? Even as someone who has been around guns since childhood, I can’t think of a way to effectively defend myself or others against someone with a firearm (and a “simple handgun” in the hands of a fairly good shot, as I understand Cho was, is as deadly as any other kind of gun; they shoot bullets just the same).

To my knowledge, Cho’s path of destruction was spread out between four classrooms and a stairwell, over something like 20 to 40 minutes. If he was shooting into the classrooms, he was also blocking their only exit (and there’s really no way to charge a guy with a gun from the front). As far as the victims “waiting around to get shot,” they probably weren’t able to understand what was going on until he was just outside or already in their classrooms. The sound of gunshots isn’t as recognizable in real life as they are in movies.

I found it pretty disrespectful to place so much blame on the victims and imply that they were cowards. But I can understand how that stems from frustration with trying to understand what has happened. I think we are all wondering where this tragedy could have been prevented. We may never figure it out…but hopefully at least thinking about it will produce something beneficial.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 11:00 am ¶
Kynn wrote:

Brad, you wrote:

However I was also offended that you chose to mock me instead of debating me, when all i suggested was that Cho’s status be looked into.

Question: If his name were Brad Wilson, would you have suggested that his immigration status be looked into?

At the time of the shooting, all that anyone knew was that he was Asian. If he’d been a naturalized citizen, or a native-born Korean American, this wouldn’t have changed anything.

Your immediate response was to start talking about immigration threats, as soon as you heard he was Asian. Which you identified as “foreigner,” because in America’s racist society, Asians can never become “white.”

You said you fear anti-Asian sentiments because of your girlfriend, and this mention of her ethnicity wasn’t just defensive posturing. Okay, I will accept that in good faith, and believe you. I will ask you, then, to ask your girlfriend if she’d like to comment about whether she’s received any backlash recently.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 1:34 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

Brad said,

Yes I will admit that immigration is a non-factor in this case.

But will you admit that by immediately resorting to the “immigration issue” was a typical racist and xenophobic response? Because that sentence seems to show less of some remorse and self-evaluation for what you said and more the reason why Merq, Gatamala, myself and others call you out each time you make race-tinged remarks….

I ask because I want to believe your future participation on this blog won’t be spent wasted on taking you to task.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 1:40 pm ¶
Tim wrote:

I love it when thinly veiled racists use their minority girlfriends or wives as an excuse to say their views aren’t racist. Having such a relationship does not automatically mean that respect for the other’s culture or ethnicity is guaranteed (during my time in the military, I’ve seen plenty of white guys talk crap about their minority significant other’s race behind their backs or even right in front of their faces).

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 6:52 pm ¶
FEB wrote:

Sewere,
Don’t be afraid to take him to task.
Fearmongers like him thrive on using loaded words like “terrorism” and “9/11.” Mind you, even the professional fearmongers like FOX News and the New York Post haven’t resorted to using these terms, yet.

When the heat is on, he invokes red herrings like “MS-13 gang,” or Yugoslav war criminals (a convenient afterthought), and cries foul when these are expose for what they are: false debates.
In short, the bigoted nonsense he espouses rests on three things: bias, evasion and non-sequiturs.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 9:30 pm ¶
goober_pistachio wrote:

Yo, y’all, if this here girlfriend of his exists and is for real, she’s got her own mind and eyes and hands.
let her on this her thing and know ALL the stuff you been saying, man– then let her speak– *for real*. You said her so dang much, put her up and then shut up wid it already. She can speak for herself when AND if she wants. Keep that crap up and you might not have her by your side. Show some luv and respect for her as a person and yourself too. I want to dig you, even if I don’t agree with you… Stop being selfish & making these damn discussions all about you, ok? More important & interesting topics, man…

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 9:53 pm ¶
Brad wrote:

Kynn: If his name were Brad Wilson would you have suggested his immigration status be looked into.

If the Brad Wilson you mention was believed to be an exchange student from let’s say Ireland and that he killed 32 students in a school yard than the answer is of course they should check his status. For instance if he belonged to the IRA (Irish Republic Army) and if they missed this than the INS has a hell of alot of explaining to do. No Immigrant from any nation whatever race they are has a right to come into this country and commit crimes.

I said what I said based on what available Information was at the time and every news source said he was a student on a visa. What I said was not unreasonable.

Now whether my girlfriend will comment or not. That is up to her, If she says yes than fine if not than I will not force the issue.

Peace

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 10:08 pm ¶
the dude wrote:

the crazy dude came to america as a kid. why dont you blame america hahahah.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 10:39 pm ¶
Tim wrote:

I think the main issue here with this tragic case isn’t about gun control (it’s certainly a big factor but I won’t get into it here) or immigration (which is a non-factor here since Cho was in the country legally), but one of mental illness. The guy had some serious mental and social problems, but did anyone reach out to help him? Or did they just ignore and shun his bizarre behavior, sweeping it under the rug?

The fact that his parents work in the dry cleaning industry is somewhat telling. Wasn’t there a study showing that children of parents in that industry exhibit a significantly higher percentage of schizophrenia than any other profession? One or more of the potentially toxic chemicals involved in dry cleaning, I believe.

Race may or may not be a factor in this incident. The fact that he was different (in appearance and culture, having emigrated to America as a child) and had a hard a time fitting in might have contributed to his antisocial behavior. This certainly doesn’t excuse anyone from taking a life or for Cho doing what he did, but that’s where the mental illness comes in.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 11:09 pm ¶
Brad wrote:

FEB

Was I being Bigoted when I said that college kids (all white) who dressed as racial stereotyoes for a party be expelled? was I being bigoted when the young filipino girl was assualted by a bunch a white kids in NYC not long ago and i said the bus driver should be fired on the spot and the kids be punished to the full extent of the law? If so than I must be really bigoted against whites then. I never tried to make the debate about me, it was only when people personally attacked me, it was people like you FEB who made it about me. It was you and others who chose to take this topic off discussion by attacking me instead of the issues I raised. If i’am personally attacked I WILL FIGHT BACK.

I admit I’am not perfect however, I try my best and don’t always succeed. If you point out a fact to me where I was wrong then I will admit to such it is only fair.

When Kynn pointed out the fact that I broke a rule in the debate I admitted I did it and apologized.

However I will not keep my mouth shut or minse words when I’am taunted or called racist or Xenophobic (how those don’t count as explosive words or fear-mongering and yet terrorist does is a little hypocritical don’t you think?)

And finally if I do decide to ask my girlfriend talk on this (which I’am thinking about if I want to go that far) How do I know you will believe me? And besides which I’am not the only one who has ever mentioned their significant other on this website and now you want me to prove it, I don’t recall alot of those people having to prove their significant other existed.

Like I said a long time ago I came on here really only to vent some things I have on my chest and to discuss them with other folks. Whether any one here believes me or not is not a major concern of mine (I have alot things going on in my life than this) But I enjoy the debate and would like to be apart of it since I have a very different point of view.

Posted 18 Apr 2007 at 11:55 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Luke Pharma wrote:
“Would people here be just as curious to “know” this person if he were another disaffected white kid? “

Do you seriously think there was a shortage of people who felt for Klebold and Harris? I’m all for fair and equal condemnation, but let’s not pretend we don’t know that many of these troubled young (white) men have gone down in history as victims in their own right.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 12:40 am ¶
JenL wrote:

When I first heard of the VT shooting(s) I was saddened by the tragic circumstance. I couldn’t have cared less what race the gunman was. I didn’t assume terrorist, I assumed disturbed person (which I guess most terrorists are but with the ideological-political reason/excuse as has been previously mentioned.)

When I found out the gunman was Asian, it still didn’t particularly matter to me. So what if he is of Asian descent, he’s still just a disturbed individual with a gun and a vendetta that has caused a lot of grief.

I found out he was South Korean when my dad (white) woke me (half-Korean) by saying “They’ve found out who the gunman is. Its bad. He’s South Korean.” At first I still didn’t think too much about it (plus I was still half asleep) I felt a little ashamed that a Korean-American had done it because I knew that Koreans have a cultural tendency even when living in America to ignore mental health problems and I figured that’d be an issue that would come up. It didn’t occur to me that he would be a non-American Korean, not because Koreans are non-violent, but because shooting up schools seems to be an American (unfortunately) thing so far.

I didn’t figure out why my dad had said “Its bad.” until I started to watch the news myself. By the third repetition of he’s a South Korean national/immigrant/visa/greencard holder/student I started to worry. With each repetition of the emphasis on race my worry grew. To the point where I was nervous about going to work, thankfully my fears have been unfounded so far.

When they first mentioned that he immigrated here at age 8 I was back to thinking that he was Korean-American because no matter what some paper says he grew up predominantly in the American culture. Even if you have strict controlling parents unless you are home schooled you are spending 8 hours a day in mainstream American culture. But with the media so focused on the fact that he was South Korean I could only expect a backlash.

I still think he was a single disturbed individual who didn’t seek/wasn’t helped, if he even could’ve been helped. I don’t think of him as a representative of any race or issue other than perhaps our societies need to address bullying, ostracism for anything that’s the least bit different, and indifference to the concerns of our fellow human beings.

As far as gun control goes: it should be stricter, but not to strict. There is a fine line, and fine lines are always hard to find and to stay on. We have a few guns in the household, mostly hunting rifles (not that that isn’t dangerous to humans as our VP so aptly demonstrated,) but they all have trigger locks and my little sister and I both know that a) they are not toys or the solutions to any problems and b) how to use them, including things like where the safety is and not to point them at people. Education is the key to all things, hence the reasoning behind statements such as information is power.

As far as legally attaining a gun: when it comes to records checking you run into lots of privacy issues, you can’t have the fact that someone has been institutionalized public information because then you could face discrimination from prospective employers and the like. So how do you control access to information like that such that it is provided when needed but not when it would be used for discrimination? (I don’t know, if you do share! you could probably get rich off of it.) Also who gets to decide when it is needed and when it would be used for discrimination?

As far as the immigrant control thing goes as related to the VT shootings, it’s been pretty well addressed at this site, but to reiterate: you can’t test with 100% accuracy for sociopathic tendencies in 8 year olds.

Something I’ve noted on other discussions: some Muslims seem to be saying that we can expect less backlash because (East) Asians are the so called “model minority.” If the person is ignorant/bigoted/hateful enough to be committing hate crimes I doubt the fact that Asians are the “model minority” will save the ones being targeted.

Korean Americans regrettably have relatively recent experience with race tension being targeted towards them. Not as recent as 9/11 and the aftermath, but still I vaguely remember the LA riots that occurred when I was a child. I believe African-Americans and most other Americans remember it as the Rodney King incident/LA riots. Korean Americans refer to it as sah-ee-goo, which translates to 4-2-9. April 29, 1992. After the Rodney King incident occurred when the government of LA was concerned that the “ghetto” sections of LA would riot they sent riot police to surround the area and prevent its spread into the rest of the city. Except on the edges that bordered the Korean sections of LA. As the rioting grew it had no choice but to spill over into the Korean neighborhoods. With the preexisting tensions from Korean immigrants misguidedly adopting mainstream American (predominantly white) attitudes towards blacks being lazy/violent/criminals and LA blacks feeling that Koreans are stuck-up/selfish/model minority it could only end the way it did. Deaths on both sides, lots of destroyed property (mostly Korean businesses), and lots of bad blood.

I can’t blame the Korean American that are being cautious about continuing to attend VT or the ones that are leaving. I can’t blame the Korean business owners for shutting down and ‘battening down the hatches.’ Especially since Korean Americans have the additional label of ‘silent minority.’ Korean Americans as a whole would, for the most part, rather be ignored, be a part of the background, even when speaking up would be the better course of action for us (sigh.)

All right I’m going to stop talking now and go to bed.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 4:42 am ¶
kim wrote:

JenL, thanks for sharing.

Your comments evoked an intimate setting, real, tangible characters (you and your Dad), and the examination of the larger political and topical news item as seen and experienced from ‘the inside,’ and quieted my anxiety about the ways in which this debate is turning into a group finger-pointing, him/them-not me/us situation.

Yes, mental illness, isolation, and despair are at the center of this tragedy. True, one’s previous hospitalization due to mental illness cannot be divulged in any indiscrimate way to allow for certification, licensing or eligibility to participate in certain privileges extended to the American citizen/resident.

Of course, carrying a gun, and being licensed to do so, should require some stringent, highly discriminate certification and background checking, though we might not want the actual gun dealers to have specific information when it comes to the particulars of why one applicant is denied the purchase through legal channels.

The way around that is simple, though, and may actually be what is done. A simple database of those deemed ineligible to participate, and be licensed in, certain activities/vocations/avocations, based on a system-wide, protocol-driven series of determining criteria which simply mines the database for hits (or returns) related to the name and verifiable state identification numbers (license/social security) of the applicant, would return a result on something like a ‘pass/fail’ grading system.

Such a database, not run or contributed to by the gun dealers in any way, returns the grade to the dealer, who then is fully aware of whether the gun sale can be made.

Sounds easy enough to me. And again, I don’t know that it is not already done that way.

Your words are cautious, probing, and thoughtful.

Peace.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 11:06 am ¶
cho wrote:

it is not a surprise that the communities never discuss racism that cho was subjected to the better half of his short life. We all grow being pushed out, down, away from success by the beautiful the affluent the middle class. Most americans sure sympathize for the victims but it is the sea of victims that first were aggressors to the weaker people on earth.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 12:02 pm ¶
cho wrote:

every criminal is watching and they will get the message all of our defense is over seas.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 12:12 pm ¶
Luke Pharma wrote:

To #91 Merq: “Do you seriously think there was a shortage of people who felt for Klebold and Harris?”

No, I don’t. Cho Seung-Hui was apparently one of them who did, after all.

My point was that in the immediate aftermath to make sense of *this* senseless incident, that support not be misdirected nor taken to extremes until more facts were available.

It shouldn’t be lost on anyone that each of the other (and unfortunately all too many in the long chain of school shootings in recent memory were perpetrated by individuals who were ” loners with problems” (i.e. sociopaths) that found a way to get guns (won’t debate the means here).

Forget about “white”/race for a moment. What’s most striking is the age and nationality of these school shooting perpetrators. Even for the past decade, it’s shocking to realize how much this is not an American phenomenon:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Each one of the perpetrators needed attention and treatment for big I” issues, yet obviously something got lost along the way, despite some obvious signs. And each simultaneously deserves blame or condemnation for their acts

More to your point, each act/actor sadly, probably does have “support” from some sick admirers. But they also have support from people who have compassion in their hearts, maybe because they’ve lost others to/under similar circumstances, or feel guilt for not having done something to mitigate the suffering/damage? There is also support a community extends, as they try to find a way to embrace the people who do such heinous acts as a way of moving on.

So yeah, I guess unless it’s something so venal and there’s no remorse and full knowledge without an excuse, the person will have support. But in this case, the more disturbed we learn he is, the more likely it is to be explained as well as something the community couldn’t prevent and something he just “was prone to do”. I just hope it doesn’t excuse what he did, because if so, that would have to extend others (i.e. “the white kids”) who preceded him precisely because we know more about what they’ve experienced.

Whoever said it up top was right: if this breaks the mold of the “poor, white country boy” stereotype, we might focus on the underlying problems to get help to these people *and* start remembering what binds the broader community to help keep watch when something’s amiss.

Posted 19 Apr 2007 at 7:39 pm ¶
a reader wrote:

Well, actually, I have been paying some attention, and while his immigration status is generally mentioned, I haven’t noticed too much underlying racism in the portrayal. I think that the portrayal has been surprisingly balanced (surprisingly, because I thought he’d be villanized because of his race too).

Posted 20 Apr 2007 at 7:25 am ¶
kim wrote:

Luke Pharma: But in this case, the more disturbed we learn he is, the more likely it is to be explained as well as something the community couldn’t prevent and something he just “was prone to do”.

Kim: For all that you wrote, and for the comprehensive measures you took to mention the different reasons (compassion among them) that people may feel sympathy for the what the shooter may have experienced in his lifetime, and what ailed him, I would say how expansive your views of humanity, how encompassing your understanding of the nuances of the human heart and spirit.

For the excerpted statement above, I would say your cynic is up and kicking, and you are off the mark.

And I would like to believe that to be true, though when I consider all the offerings you make for the extension of compassion, I guess I believe the community (the larger society) never wants to look at itself, never wants to ask how it contributed to stresses or emotional and psychic pain and trauma of the individual, and so will seek to relieve the urge to do so, by welcoming a diagnosis of complete psychotic break and long term mental illness.

Those may be found to apply, in a legalistic sense and for release of culpability of any persons around Cho who were merely honor bound to extend some sort of hand or time or smile to this young man.

The psychiatric illness factor will not be denied, but I wonder if it must be placed in the forefront to simply, as you make mention of, allow people to say, ‘oh well, nothing that could have been done, move on.’

Posted 20 Apr 2007 at 12:14 pm ¶
A Black Muse wrote:

I’ve often wondered what feeds the bully mentality. Growing up, outside the Beltway, I wondered it about it quite a lot! Well, it was staring us in the face every day! All the crap they were battling out on the hill actually DID reach us, no matter how hard we tried to ignore it. I was one of many who weren’t permitted to SMELL the mini-page before reading the headline stories on the front page of the Washington Post! The results were easy to see in our playground and street games. As if football weren’t enough of a glaring anology of American culture, we didn’t play touch or tackle football, we played SMEAR the QUEER! (no teams per say, whoever had the ball was the one to nail)
We knew it then and nothing has changed in 30 years. This country is run by bullies and thrives on a bully mentality! But frustration upon frustration, we ‘good’ kids always gotten the shaft! We studied hard, worked for what we wanted and were taught that was how to succeed. Many Black, Great Depression Era parents raised us that way. We were also taught to ignore the spoiled bougie kids who treated everyone like shit and got cars for sweet 16 or graduation. (I got luggage and a Timex for graduation) They would never really amount to anything. Well, nothing but president of the united states, anyway.
You know that 1% of the population who own every freakin’ thing? Is it just me, or does it seem like the ‘illuminati’ types are losing their stranglehold and getting a little desperate? I mean, really, this stupid war has dragged on LONG beyond any logical reasoning…except maybe that the oil moguls and others getting fat off gov’t contracts aren’t quite rich enough yet. And just as I was thinking “Damn, Bush is vetoing every bill to stop this madness like his OWN life depended on it”, I flipped the channel to see Jon Stewart interviewing a guy talking about Iraq and the gov’t contracts.

(and suddenly I’m contemplating changing my screen name to Purple Muse, Pink Muse, or Sunshiney-Yellow-happy- news-Muse)

I’d bet good money, if I had any, that Bush is under the gun to keep this mess going!
But, even if they stop the war, the contracts don’t end automatically. All those bills they’re trying to push say they want to stop the war, but omit any reference to ending those contracts. Even the bills sent up by the Dems! Aw, damn…and we thought they were gonna save us! If they end the war, how are they going to justify spending all that money? Somethin’ stinks on Capitol Hill….again.
Do people REALLY want to be like the Hiltons? All that money, not a brain in sight. Does the cubi-farm, corporate plantation, keep-up-with-the-Jones’s lifestyle really appeal to people anymore?
Especially, now that we know who we’re working for? What do we get for our efforts?…30-year mortgages, car notes, debt after debt voluntarily enslaving ourselves to that very same 1% …….and then there’s that monthly security alarm bill, because, as it turns out, like Martha Stewart, the Joneses are a bunch of f-d up individuals!
Damn, is it too late to digress? Oh well.
Maybe Bill Gates will lead the “Revenge of the Nerds” revolution and kill this illusion that people have to be bullies or that people have to play that game or go without. There is enough for everyone.
Maybe I’ll stop blogging and do some serious writing.
Maybe I’ll make them sorry for putting this chip in my head. heh-heh

Posted 20 Apr 2007 at 4:12 pm ¶
Luke Pharma wrote:

#98 Kim: Thank you for your note. You are right, my cynicism was betrayed by earlier posting in that line.

But then I read this earlier today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

This family, especially, gets major nods for opening up a difficult door to bare themselves in a way I’m sure must be difficult and unfamiliary for them. And then I thought, wow, their lives are going to be this huge focal point into a range of cultural questions as well. My heart went out to them today especially, since they are never going to go back to “normal”, my gosh.

Then I recalled something small, but striking, lost and not reported by the media in their frenzy from a number of the past incidents: the families themselves tend to mourn the greater loss and damage as much, if not more, than what they’ve lost themselves.The community (society) has to embrace them too.

I think that’s where my “cynical” (i.e. cautiously optimistically realistic) side comes out. I keep thinking: Amish, Korean, rural, small town, “good families”, etc. are all portrayed as “others” that need to