AsianWeek runs a column called “Why I Hate Blacks” at Racialicious

AsianWeek runs a column called “Why I Hate Blacks”

by Carmen Van Kerckhove

Update: Be sure to check out the excellent analyses by Claire Light and Philip Arthur Moore.

Blacks hate us. Every Asian who has ever come across them knows that they take almost every opportunity to hurl racist remarks at us…

Contrary to media depictions, I would argue that blacks are weak-willed. They are the only race that has been enslaved for 300 years. It’s unbelievable that it took them that long to fight back…

In high school, I only remember one black student ever attending any of my honors and AP courses. And that student was caught cheating.

Musings from a Stormfront discussion board? No.

Believe it or not, they’re actually excerpts from a column by one Kenneth Eng that ran in the San Francisco newspaper AsianWeek, which calls itself “The Voice of Asian America.” (Props to Angry Asian Man for breaking the story, and thanks to Ananse, Tariq and Gayle for the tips.)

How the hell does a column like this not raise any eyebrows at a 28 year-old newspaper? Did no one stop and say, hey wait a minute, maybe it’s not such a good idea to run this?

AsianWeek was quick to delete the column from their web site, but you can read the full text here, just scroll down to the 5th comment. As you’ll see, this is not some kind of racial satire gone wrong, a la Princetonian. This is pure and unadulterated hate speech. And horribly written at that.

One thing I can say though, is that the outcry from the Asian-American community has been impressive. Several different Asian-American organizations banded together to create this petition, which includes quotes from its leaders:

“Most Asian Americans would not be here in America today, but for the civil rights movement led by African Americans that resulted in the change to racist immigration quotas,” said Stewart Kwoh, Executive Director of the Asian Pacific American Legal Center.

“Eng’s vile racism is a setback to the efforts of people of color working together against discrimination, oppression and injustice,” said Keith Kamisugi, associate director for communications at the Equal Justice Society. “His words alone are disgusting; that it was printed in a prominent English-language Asian Pacific American newspaper is shameful.”

AsianWeek issued the following statement:

AsianWeek sincerely regrets any offense caused by the one opinion piece which reflected that author’s personal views. We apologize for any harm or hurt this has caused the African American community. AsianWeek has great respect for all that the African American community has done for Asian Pacific Americans.

AsianWeek’s operation and editorial policy are based on a philosophy of diversity. This includes fighting to promote diversity of opinion in our own community and even to expose its disturbing warts. It also includes a proven record on promoting cross-cultural diversity and inter-racial interaction. AsianWeek as an organization is proud of its deep and unparalleled history of working with, interacting with, and building connections between all the diverse groups that make up America.

What’s that smell? Oh right, it’s bullshit. If their intent was to “expose its disturbing warts” and open up a discussion about anti-black racism among Asian-Americans (a valid topic), they should have either written a feature story on racial tension, or they should have published a column alongside Eng’s arguing against his views.

Neela, who used to work for AsianWeek, wrote an interesting post for the Hyphen Blog suggesting that the paper’s politics are a bit suspect:

Now, I can tell you, that working for AsianWeek, run by the Fang Dynasty, was a complicated job. Just like here at Hyphen, working on a pan-Asian American publication means trying to cover a lot of ground. For me that work is essentially about the intersections between communities and my favorite stories were those about multicultural alliances. Yet, I was told that the main aim of the paper was to represent the Chinese American community, the pan-Asian American-ness more of a marketing tool and less of a reality. Obviously, there seems to be very little excuse for running a column by a self-proclaimed “Asian Supremacist,” (AKA: a straight up racist) but to do it in a publication that already has such iffy ties with community. Bad idea.

For more on this story, check out this article in the San Francisco Chronicle.

Trackbacks & Pings

You must have lost your motherfucking mind. « The Anti-Essentialist Conundrum on 28 Feb 2007 at 1:45 pm

[…] and some ideas of what direction should be taken after this brouhaha’s 15 minutes expire. Racialicious has also covered the […]

Comments

Rob wrote:

Though it’s a good thing that Asian Americans are condemning this horrible article, I find it interesting that MSM (Mainstream Media) is all too excited to point out when Asians do something wrong but almost never broadcast when Asian Americans are the victims of racism.

I guess that’s what keeps people interested. The downtrodden black man and the horrible Asian man.

Additionally, I do have to point out that at least Asian American groups speak out about this drivel while I’ve hardly seen other minority groups do the same when their “own” harbor and exhibit racist actions.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 11:11 am ¶
kim wrote:

Is this just another ‘Princetonian’ effort for visibility among all the other entrants in the fields, or does it represent the Asian viewpoint on Blacks?

Which Asian viewpoint? ( I will not read the article) Those in the merchant/retail class? Those in middle-management positions? Those who are well-off enough to live in stratified communities and never really interact with Blacks? Is it an effort by those who can avoid contact to ‘represent’ the disconnect, antipathy and ill humor of the Asian who DOES come into daily contact with Blacks, because they have no choice, due to work? where they live?

Which Blacks would these be? (Well, certainly all of us, as we’re weak-willed and were enslaved for three hundred years.) Of course it is more than just the chickenwingfwyiedwhICE group, with their gold teeth, leased SUVs, and regular visits to the local club to patronize 50 Cent, or some such other egg-head. It would be my mother, yes? My grandmother, yes? Great.

Perhaps the Asian groups who expressed outrage did so to avoid the violent outrage of the monolithic Black {wink}, and any consideration of the interconnected travails and triumphs, was just a second thought?

Perhaps the consideration, and voice given it, are genuine, and the only responsible way to reject blanket racist hate speech, and an attempt to show the possibilities for mindful, progressive coalition building?

There are extremes- polarized camps- and while I know we are going to examine this, my question is, at what point do we say ‘enough’ to the crap from all sides, and not patronize organizations that would issue such drivel? At what point does the ‘choir’ step away from other peoples’ incendiary BS-whether it be film, print, music, ‘fashion’, humor, etc.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 11:29 am ¶
George wrote:

First of all, what Eng wrote was stupid and it’s good that Asians are speaking up against it.

But I just hope that when blacks start to bash Asians, black leaders will also step in and say that’s not right.

Because so far, that hasn’t been the case.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 11:30 am ¶
berrybrowne wrote:

Just when I was about to feel good for a minute about how racialicious covered this story - describing how the asian american community has been largely condemning of the article (score one for my ideal of all oppressed people groups sticking up for each other) - i read Rob and George’s comments and now I feel a bit sick to my stomach. Instead of taking this opportunity to point out an additional African American flaw (failure to criticize our own for Anti-Asian sentiment), it would have been great if you could have just joined in on the condemning of a sickening, racist article. I so want to feel unity with other people of color in real, practical ways, not just in an imaginary, theoretical realm.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 12:27 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

Nothing will come about this anyway.

The only thing that will happen is the usual; black groups will ask for an apology and the magazine will offer it rather than open up racial dialogue between these two groups of people.

Same shit, different day. Until we have a rational discussion group where no one demographic is ignored, only then will we make social progress in this country. This country is just as assbackwards as any other when it comes to actually talking about topics that don’t turn into a blame game or shouting match.

I like this quote: “I don’t interact with like-minded people because with like-minded people, one cannot discuss. ”

All we do is have blacks bitching about Asians to other blacks and we have Asians bitching about blacks to other Asians.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 12:45 pm ¶
Rabia wrote:

OK. I admit I was incensed at first, but as I kept reading Eng’s works and more about him (esp. his time at NYU), I began to fall in love with him a bit. This guy is my new Aleksey Vayner. I have spent the past two hours trying to restrain myself from laughing out loud at work.
The dude is insane!!!

On a more serious note, I don’t know how this article came to light, but I’m certainly disappointed that he got away with his previous articles on Whites and Asians. As for the response of the media and “community leaders” to instaces of racism such as this one or Hot 97, I don’t really ahve any faith in their ability to get it right and foster real honest discussion. That is something we as individuals have to do. One thing I’ve found interesting is how some people on other blogs sprung to his defense on the basis of “free speech.” Now I love my free speech, but I can’t be the only one to think that freedom of expression entitles no one to be an idiot or an asshole, racist or not. And there’s the “we’re all racist anyway, he just has the guts to say it out loud” defense. We may all have prejudices, but some of us actually work at overcoming them and ensuring that we don’t let our irrational predispositions affect the way we treat other people.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 1:21 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

While I can understand your point, berrybrowne, it’s a point I will harp on.

I just wanted to point out that injustices against Asians from other communities are rarely, if ever, condemned.

Another ultra-conservative site, Littlegreenfootballs.com, noted how a Korean anti-Semitic comic was criticized viciously by other Korean Americans and how they were organizing a protest. All the comments were pertaining to how impressed they were that their “own” were the ones leading the fight, not Jews.

Why do others expect Asian Americans to merely condemn something, say nothing, and go back to business as usual when hateful vitriol is leveled at Asians? During the Hot 97 protest, almost all of the individuals protesting were Asian.

I’m sick of this whole mentality that we should just criticize one group while another gets off. I refuse to buy into it.

This response wasn’t leveled at individual blacks but rather black organizations that only serve to complain about others but remain silent when their “own” does something racist.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 2:01 pm ¶
mr guy wrote:

ahahaha.As soon as I read about this, I knew some people would start to turn this situation into a “who is the better victim of racism” sort of thing.And it only needed 6 post too!

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 2:05 pm ¶
ren wrote:

The prominent voice of Asian America? I never even heard of AsianWeek, and why does it have a circulation smaller than the guy on the corner handing out strip club advertisements? Something strikes me funny about people decrying how this article never should have been printed and now they make scans and screenshots of the article to post all over the blogosphere. Opinions I can handle. Crazy bat-shit extreme Coulter-like opinion pieces I can handle. Voicing your opinion in single sentence top ten list bulleted style… that’s just heinous. And unforgivable.

“Contrary to media depictions, I would argue that blacks are weak-willed. They are the only race that has been enslaved for 300 years.”

Yeah you could argue Eng. You could also be laughably wrong. If we go by the standard definition of slavery, that is human being owned as property by other humans and forced to perform labor — I would have to say masters denying human rights to their laborers encompasses a large chunk of human existence. I don’t think the Jews and other enslaved minorities really enjoyed building the pyramids in Egypt. And if slavery is Masters and other ruling groups getting rich off those they dominate, this predominates the whole of European History (filled with weak-willed white people). If you’re going to ignore Greek, Persian, and Roman civilizations and single out only the African Americans something tells me you single them out for a purpose. I agree with Eng on one thing, if you’re religious you are easily coerced. This isn’t exclusive to African Americans though, in sociology the willingness of an individual to bend to authority is practically a constant. Probably doesn’t help that I hate religion as well… anywho.

As for Eng’s class debate example, where Black students defended slavery — so what? I defended eugenics, euthanasia, drug legalization, abortion, Japanese internment, pornography, the benevolence of religion (ugh)… that’s the whole point of a debate. My teachers would purposely make us debate on the side of an issue we didn’t stand on. That’s the only way you understand an issue and it’s argument fully.

In defense of Eng, I really don’t like where Ling-chi Wang is trying to pull the issue, yes education certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I’m weary of people who use the argument-killer that Asian Americans can’t criticize African Americans because the Civil Rights Act benefited Asians. I can’t hate the new Puff Daddy album because I “historically owe” puffy for my existence as an Asian American? Try and establish some logical boundaries, the African Americans who harass and hurl racial slurs at poor Eng, causing these feelings of personal injustice, probably on a personal level didn’t contribute much for the historical advancement of civil rights. Don’t tie these two together. Wang says “personal experiences cannot be generalized”, I agree, they shouldn’t be generalized. The issue is Eng taking personal experiences and trying to inflate them as overall behavior exhibited by African Americans. I’m not so liberal that I ignore every nasty remark made at me by African Americans, the point is I don’t attribute that to all African Americans and posit this as proof of anything other than those particular persons are assholes.

And if one stupid remark by an Asian is all it takes to get you to be embarrassed for being Asian, your grounding in your ethnicity is a bit too volatile. I’m not embarrassed being Asian when munching on SPCA puppy (my ode to Swiftian satire). Claire needs tougher skin. I’m more embarrassed for this Eng guy because now people are googling his cringe-worthy sci-fi epics.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 2:16 pm ¶
mr guy wrote:

As for the guy who wrote the article, I’m not surprised.I already knew he was really off the deep end when I read an earlier article titled: “Proof That Whites Inherently Hate Us”
Can you take someone who says stuff like that seriously?

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 2:16 pm ¶
Y. Carrington wrote:

To Rob and everyone, you should know that Mr. Eng is no fan of Asian folk either. On January 12th AsianWeek published another column by him titled “Why I Hate Asians,” which followed the same asinine script as his antiblack rant. A sample:

The second thing I hate about Asians is how little pride most of them have. This may be the result of societal brainwashing, but whatever the cause, it must stop. I am repulsed when I see Asian guys speak with British accents in an attempt to sound sophisticated. British people can’t be all that sophisticated if they don’t yet understand the concept of dental hygiene. I am also sickened when I hear Asian people imitate Negro slang in an endeavor to sound “ghetto.” Am I supposed to be impressed that such a person emulates the attitude of a supposed slum resident? More importantly, whatever happened to being yourself?

Why am I bothering to point this out? Because Eng struggles with internalized racism, like most people of color do. He then projects that racism and self-hatred onto all other POC. Black folk just happened to be his latest chosen target.

Instead of people of color nursing self-pity about which group of us “has it worse,” we would all do well to learn from this negative example that Kenneth Eng has provided for us. If not, we’re gonna keep doing this shit and triggering each other’s pain and trauma again and again.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 2:51 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

Ren said:

((And if one stupid remark by an Asian is all it takes to get you to be embarrassed for being Asian, your grounding in your ethnicity is a bit too volatile. I’m not embarrassed being Asian when munching on SPCA puppy (my ode to Swiftian satire). Claire needs tougher skin. I’m more embarrassed for this Eng guy because now people are googling his cringe-worthy sci-fi epics.))

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/27/MNGTCOBI921.DTL

This is exactly what I was thinking. I can’t believe blogger, Claire Light, is actually stating that this sometimes makes her embarrassed to be Asian. What an idiot.

To Y. Carrington:
I’m fully aware of his rants against whites and other Asians but it’s the general idea that somehow other activist groups don’t return the favor in reprimanding their own while others have.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 3:30 pm ¶
Y. Carrington wrote:

Rob, brotha…it ain’t about “favors.” We aren’t capitalist businessmen or politicians, okay? We’re people of color in a racist bloody society, where you and I get the message everyday that we are not human. Somewhere along the way we’re gonna start believing the horseshit that white supremacy tells us about ourselves, and we’ll take it out on each other. That’s just what happens. The point of antiracism is to identify these dynamics in our communities and work through them until they aren’t controlling our lives. It’s a political and interpersonal process. Quit looking at as a contest. We’re not in competition with each other.

Look, I don’t “reprimand” anyone when they engage in oppressive behavior, ’cause I ain’t a parent or a teacher. I engage that person in dialogue and analysis. I also apply that analysis to myself. There is no oppression in US society that I have not internalized—anti-Asian racism, anti-Black racism, homophobia, misogyny, ableism, anti-Semitism, classism—you name it, this Black woman’s got it. The same goes for you too, Rob. You don’t get a “get-out-of-oppression-free” card in this system.

And haven’t you figured this out yet, Rob? You ARE my own.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 4:17 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

Rob said,

I’m fully aware of his rants against whites and other Asians but it’s the general idea that somehow other activist groups don’t return the favor in reprimanding their own while others have.

Are you sure you’re just not willing to see those minority groups that condemn racism against other minority groups? Because I could give you a few examples right here in the Bay Area,

1. Back in my undergrad days, Berkeley African Students Association and the Black Students Union wrote a long letter criticizing Farrakhan’s anti-Semitic statements.

2. Students for Justice in Palestine threw out a member who made Anti-Semitic statements.

3. Rev. Forbes a leader in the black community, is the head of one of the largest churches in New York and he has spoken out against homophobia in the black community as well as the the need to include gay rights in the fight for civil rights.

4.Yolanda (of genderracepower.com) and Sylvia (of anti-essentialist) are just two bloggers (who also happen to be community leaders in their own rights) I know who have strongly voiced their distaste for anti-Asian stereotypes, anti-jewish arguments used in the general media as well as their . I know of a specific example on Yolanda’s blog where someone who was claiming to be pro-black (whatever that means) made a swipe at Asians, and in the spirit of making safe spaces for ALL people of color, Yolanda immediately took the person to task by taking her off the thread.

Is that enough or is it that you have specific qualms with black activist groups who aren’t saying enough about black anti-Asian racism (as if we all got together to corner the market on anti-Asian racism)? Because I don’t think any amount of examples will give sufficent cred for us blacks to finally be able to qualify for your version of “oppression olympics”?

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:07 pm ¶
Dena wrote:

Oh noez! Apparently some black person decided to send an email to AngryAsianMan.com because of what AsianWeek published.

How logical. You are both Asian, so you must both think the same and be the same too.

The hate mail:

“FROM: “keith lilly”
DATE: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:27:26 -0600
TO: [angryminsoo@angryasianman.com]
SUBJECT: YWhy I should hate Asian people.

You eat dog.
You jam 30 people in a house that was made for 4.

You set up stores in the neighborhoods where people live you claim to hate………………..THAT’s DUMBASS ON YOUR PART.
Set your shit up in WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS.
Oh……………..I forgot.
White people don’t like you SLANT EYED ASSES EITHER.

Most of you motherfuckers can’t speak English.
None of you motherfuckers want to deal with BLACK PEOPLE yet you want our money.

You hate Black people……………………Big deal.
Take your ass back to where you came from and surround yourself with a whole country of dumb, dog eating motherfucking 3 fott tall monkeys like yourself.

To the Editors of the trash…………………….How do it feel.
We all know you knew the backlash that would come.
You money hungry hookers printed it anyway because bullshit sell’s.

Gotta go lock my dog up.
Would not want him to end up here.”

I have to say from my own experience that there is very little unity between blacks and Asians as fellow minorities. Culturally I think the difference is too wide for many people. Look how tense and complex white-black relations are. Throw in Asians and it gets ugly.

Race relations among fellow minorities in America has a long way to go. Kenneth Eng didn’t help. But neither do blacks like “keith lilly.”

Oh, and berrybrowne, stop bitching. I didn’t complain when black organizational leaders ignored the “Tsunami Song.” Mostly because Asians should know better than to expect something from them. Sad but true.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:10 pm ¶
berrybrowne wrote:

sewere - thanks for making my point so much better than i did!

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:18 pm ¶
Gayle wrote:

mr guy wrote:

As for the guy who wrote the article, I’m not surprised.I already knew he was really off the deep end when I read an earlier article titled: “Proof That Whites Inherently Hate Us”
Can you take someone who says stuff like that seriously?

—-
I may not and you obviously don’t, but the unfortunately reality is that there are plenty of young, impressionable people out there who do.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:22 pm ¶
Y. Carrington wrote:

Dena—what’s the point of your comment exactly? We know that pricks like Keith Lilly exist, that’s what living in a white supremacist society will do to a person. And why would you repost an abusive email that Angry Asian Man received over here? You don’t think that’s harmful to him?

Have you heard nothing that Sewere, Rob, or I have said here? Thanks for not listening, and thanks for stoking yet more self-hating animosity between Asian and Black folk. And thanks also for using the B-word as a synonym for complaining.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:40 pm ¶
Y. Carrington wrote:

And you know what else, Dena? You’re behaving exactly like Keith Lilly and Kenneth Eng here. You won’t listen to Rob, or Sewere, or berrybrowne, or Carmen, or Kai Chang, or Sylvia, or Jenn Fang, or AAM, or me—but you’ll repost Lilly’s racist harassment of an Asian man on an Asian woman’s blog. That’s means you take him more seriously than you take us.

So why are we wasting our time talking? We should just yield the floor to you three friends and go home. Of course, this will do nothing about the trauma and harm of racism, but who cares? Let’s give the folks at home a good ole cockfight! It’s the American way!

Sorry Carmen, but I’m really tired of this shit.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 5:56 pm ¶
KarenX wrote:

Rob wrote:
“This response wasn’t leveled at individual blacks but rather black organizations that only serve to complain about others but remain silent when their “own” does something racist.”

I call BULLSHIT!!!! Unless you can provide some specific examples of what you claim, you comment is little more than bitter ignorance.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 6:03 pm ¶
ren wrote:

AngryAsianMan should have never posted this email. Not when you don’t even know if this individual is African American or some idiot who wants to fan the flame. If we’re going to criticize AsianWeek for lacking discretion in what they post, AngryAsianMan should have considered what constructive purpose this positing will have by giving this moron attention.

At least Eng’s article was mildly clever, the outlandish claims he was making made for a good laugh, I’m reading down Keith’s list and I’m just nodding my head… yeah, yeah, yeah.

There’s something very disturbing hearing Blacks insult other races by labeling them as monkeys. If this letter was meant to be satire, or a diss, or an exercise of the classic African American tradition of the Dozens… it failed miserably. We’re obviously not dealing with a skilled contender. As I’m reading this I imagine Keith running around in a bunnie suit footie-pajamas. Before you claim anyone else can’t speak English, Keith should mind his own struggling with just typing the English language.

“How do it feel?” … uh, I would say truly humiliating… for Keith Lilly. I love AngryAsianMan but they should have taken into account Keith’s self-esteem after people read his innermost private musings. If this thread turns into oppression Olympics and we attempt to crown anyone a victim, it’ll probably be Keith.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 6:30 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

Dena said,

Oh, and berrybrowne, stop bitching. I didn’t complain when black organizational leaders ignored the “Tsunami Song.” Mostly because Asians should know better than to expect something from them. Sad but true.

Thank you so much for your constructive addition to this lively debate Dena… Now all we need is a few more people to help get things going on what is rapidly becoming an “oppression olympic” conversation. Any takers?

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 6:43 pm ¶
Rachel wrote:

Rob, I feel like your distracting from the real issue. While what you are saying is indeed relavant in some cases, it is better left for another thread. I would also add that Sewere is right there are many cases of Blacks speaking up–I can think of people in both the Tsunami and DJ Star cases. However, let’s not continue the “me too” distraction; it does more harm than good.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 7:41 pm ¶
kim wrote:

You know, it occurs to me that there are lots of nasty stereotypes being slung around the air, hurled into peoples’ faces, whispered behind backs, and insinuated in “polite” conversation that has no resonance with (or for?) me.

I have lived my whole life among ‘inner city’ Blacks, rural Blacks and immigrant Mexicans, Whites, Jews, Asians (granted, fewer Asians than any of the other group, until I was an adult, anyway), transplanted Africans, Rastafarians, West Indian non-Spanish speaking, Caribbean Spanish Speaking, Nation of Islam Muslims, Arab Muslims, South Asian Indians (again, not until I was an adult), and many other groups.

The terms that are routinely hurled intending to hurt, to defame, to spit in the eye of another, are terms that simply would not fly in a conversation with me. I wouldn’t engage, and, therefore, was probably found to be ‘corny,’ or boring by those who would. These terms and ideas (Asians eat dog) are sometimes so lost on me that I have to wonder what the hell is going on in everyday interaction with folk. (I totally missed it when Ren used it, so long had it been -nearly nineteen years- since I’d heard it even intimated.)

What does it take to turn a nation? Doesn’t it take each and every one of us? Can we truly not disengage, or are we delightfully, deliciously, ravenously, rapaciously Addicted to Race? WTF?

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 7:47 pm ¶
merq wrote:

“I can’t hate the new Puff Daddy album because I “historically owe” puffy for my existence as an Asian American? Try and establish some logical boundaries, the African Americans who harass and hurl racial slurs at poor Eng, causing these feelings of personal injustice, probably on a personal level didn’t contribute much for the historical advancement of civil rights. Don’t tie these two together.”

Ren,
I was with you up until then. This kind of logic irritates the hell out of me. It’s yet another instance of the “oh, so sensitive blacks who cry racism at every juncture” rhetoric.

I don’t remember whatshisname saying anything aimed specifically at the black people who victimized him. It was directed at the entire race. So while I often respect your views (although of late, I’m beginning to worry at the very sight of your name — the kind of worry one feels after being gravely disappointed by a respected colleague), I’m gonna have to ask that we refrain from straw man arguments.

Sewere, Berrybrowne, etc:

I totally knew it was coming… the Oppression Olympics rage on!

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 8:55 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:

In the spirit of internecine squabbling:

Ren, Rob, do you have some kind of grudge against Claire Light… why get on the high horse about her “embarassed to be Asian” comment? It’s pretty common hyperbole and used frequently as in “X person/thing makes me embarassed to be black/white/Presbyterian/whatever”.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 9:10 pm ¶
ren wrote:

Atlasien,

Yes I hold a grudge against Claire Light. After she brutally killed my family, I swore from that day on I’d ride my high horse and trample all over her any chance I got. Look, I didn’t even know who Claire Light was until today. And the fact that I must hold a grudge simply because I criticized one aspect of her article is a bit absurd. Considering the overall nastiness of Claire Light (which I find wholesome don’t get me wrong), I didn’t think I was being so cruel in my statement.

Are you sure it’s hyperbole, how do you know it wasn’t meiosis? For the sake of argument let’s say it was hyperbole, why can’t I criticize it and why is this off limits? Perhaps my definition of hyperbole differs from your own, so let me establish my working definition. Hyperbole is a statement whereupon you use a device of exaggeration that is not expected to be taken literally. Not, the statement isn’t to be taken literally, the exaggeration is not to be taken literally. So take a common hyperbole, like “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse”. I don’t want to literally eat a horse, that’s the exaggeration that isn’t to be taken literally, nevertheless the statement stands true — I’m extremely hungry. Hyperbole doesn’t mean the opposite, (I’m not hungry at all), it doesn’t mean I didn’t really mean to say that (you’re really very hungry), it’s not an understated meaning (I say I could eat a horse but really a cracker could tide me over), it just means you’ve taken a statement and overstated it by incorporating some flowery poetic device.

So Claire’s hyperbole (supposedly) is I’m embarrassed to be Asian. I feel like an English teacher, let’s all point out where the exaggeration is. Embarrassed? That’s the extreme exaggeration that I callously took to be literal? And even if it was, even if the extent of her embarrassment is exaggerated, how exactly has that shifted the meaning of her statement? Hyperbole doesn’t change the meaning of a statement, it merely overemphasis the meaning. Ok, so maybe she’s in actuality self-conscious of being Asian and she exaggerated to say embarrassed, fine, allow me to criticize not her exaggeration but what she intended to mean, by saying don’t be so damn self-conscious… it’s silly. If she’s so “ill at ease” why by Asians in general? Did someone elect Kenneth Eng as figurehead of the Asian American populace? Embarrassed over what? That Kenneth Eng is a fucking dickhead? I’m embarrassed FOR the man, not because of him. He affects your status as an Asian — zero. What deep inner qualms about being Asian did asshat Kenneth Eng draw out of you that you have to be embarrassed, er… disconcerted with Asians?

I made a simple statement, I didn’t think I was riding her ass on it. Maybe I was wrong for doing so. Perhaps it was a benign casual aside and she didn’t really mean to place that as the title of her freaking article, in that case I apologize for peeing in her rhetorical sea of nuance. I tend to speed read and perhaps I didn’t grasp the hyperbole or the snarky “2 B AZN” reference or that clever italicizing of the ass in embarrassed. What sets me off about this kind of statement is that it’s so frequently heard, at least by myself, amongst Asians who find any and all reasons to distance themselves from Asians that might come off as embarrassing. Sure Eng is embarrassing, but he mostly embarrasses himself. It fails to damage your authenticity of being Asian or any other Asian for that matter.

I have no grudge against Claire, she’s snarky, I’m misanthropic, we’d probably be good friends if we met. So I’m sorry if I yelled at her unfairly or you.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 11:21 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

Hrm, seems that this discussion got a little sidetracked and it seemed my comments started it. Though I apologize for sending this thread down a different path, I make no apologies for bring up the topic as I presented it.

It’s a legit point and while the overwhelming majority of Asian Americans condemn this article as racist hogwash, many of the comments also included the fact that they “hope black people will return the favor and criticize their own when they make outrageous racist statements against Asians.”

Now, whether or not it’s because they don’t hear or see black groups fight racism when one of their own makes racist comments is what’s up for debate. Could it be that Asians just don’t know? Perhaps but I can tell you with almost certainty that if they did know, they wouldn’t dismiss it.

I mean, the whole point of a site like this is to discuss racial relations, no? It seems to be on the minds of Asian Americans so it’s not like I’m merely making things up. Many Asian Americans feel that though they condemn racism of any type including the type directed at others, they hardly see it replicated in return.

It may be true that some black community groups condemn anti-Asian racism just as often as any type of anti-Black racism but it doesn’t seem to be the norm.

Sewere’s examples were good and I’m not going to trivialize them at all. However, it seems that the largest and most popular ones such as the NAACP and the Rainbow Push Coalition stay silent on matters when racism is committed by blacks.

What a great example, KarenX? Right after Shaq went into his racist diatribe of “tell Yao Ming Ching Chong Ching Chong,” the NAACP presented him with an charity award with absolutely no mention or condemnation of his remarks. Most of the protestors of Hot 97 were Asian while there were some black protesters as well. Most of the people protesting and fighting for Chinese delivery men who were obviously singled out because they were deemed easy targets were all protested by Asian people.

What these Asian groups are doing is the right way to go and racism should be combated by everyone, not just the offended party. Though it sounds good on paper, it’s rarely practiced.

I also wanted to add that my point doesn’t qualify to be thrown under the buzz-phrase of “Oppression Olympics.” I’m not saying that one particular race has it harder than another but rather it seems that the concern for fighting racism seems to be a priority when one’s own party is affected. This rings even more true when a particular group notices that the perpetrator is one of their own.

Posted 28 Feb 2007 at 11:47 pm ¶
Kenda wrote:

It’ s surprising that Kenneth Eng continues to have a platform for his misguided writings.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 1:10 am ¶
Kyla wrote:

Mr. Eng has been fired, but I really think AsianWeek needs to fire the editor who allowed that piece, as well as “Why I Hate Asians,” “Why Non-Violent Protest Will Never Help Asians,” and his other columns, to be printed in the first place. That’s really poor journalism, and really poor editorial ethics.

As for the oppression olympics… it seems Eng’s internalization of the “divide and conquer” method of race relations is working, doesn’t it? :-/ Maybe we could be glad that AsianWeek has gotten the butt-kicking it deserves, Eng has been fired, and Asian American organizations have spoken out solidly against Eng’s anti-African American racism?

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 1:12 am ¶
Ananse wrote:

Interesting that, yet again, the conduit for the actual vitriol

(a) operated for so long without stronger editorial safeguards and procedures in place to deal with such a piece (note to locals: recall the Berkeley Daily Planet’s “letter about Arabs”?);

-and-

(b) escaped the full brunt of actual general public scrutiny not through its four-days-late apology, but through its own call for a town hall discussion on racial issues– an area where its own coverage has been “barely there” at best when most needed in the past. I’m still smarting from that ugly black on Latino scene at Mayor Dellums inaugural in Oakland. Where was AsianWeek?

Make no mistake: this episode was calculated to provoke, by a set of interests that are cynical in their attitudes and beliefs about race,

It would be a mistake to focus on Eng’s and Fang’s hang-ups to the exclusion of Fang’s politics and calculus. There are those who are all to happy to take the opening Ted Fang has provided and exploit anti-Black, anti-Asian, anti-* sentiment.

Self-interest will always trump group pride in the most cynical of coverage. If something tangible were sought, why not call out those interests, instead of demanding accounting for who’s suffered most or which group holds the most [bleeped] notions towards the other?

No one should be made to bear responsibity for quelling or addressing a racial attack from within their own communities. They should *want* to do so, recognizing that ugly, hurtful, and damaging is as it does. When racism just plain bothers you consistently in thought in deed, including your own, why not stamp it out?

As long as everyone wants to only talk or act around the most egregious scapegoats provided, and concerned folks of color stick to a quid pro quo groupthink mindset, the Fangs, his supporters, and his equally opportunistic non-Asian race-baiters all along the spectrum are quite content with the state of things.

Can’t wait to see how things go in SF Chinatown for the New Year’s parade this weekend. *sigh*

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 7:05 am ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Hey, I am for ‘free speech” Eng should keep his job at Asian Week just like I thought Rush Limbaugh should have stayed in ESPN’S employ for some simple reasons. I like to know the world to know what a racist looks like and that company should have to deal with the screw up of hiring an Ann Coulter wannabe in yellowface.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 9:55 am ¶
Kai wrote:

ren, I enjoyed and respect your comments in this thread. Re Claire Light’s “hyberbole”: “I’m embarrassed to be Asian” is the exaggeration. “I’m embarrassed by how shitty a publication AsianWeek is” is the statement. The hyperbole is the expansion of her embarrassment to include her racial identity as being associated with the very name of that publication. No matter, though, I didn’t feel that you went crazy about this or anything. I liked what you had to say.

Rob, you raise many good points but really I don’t find their placement in this thread and this discussion to be helpful or particularly thoughtful. When I call out white racists or black anti-Asian racism, nothing is more annoying than the defense that “in this other instance, you didn’t say anything”, because I’m not talking about those other instances. Not that I’m trying to shut you down, just making note that, for me, right now is about demonstrating that we Asian folks crack down on racism among our own as hard as we expect others to, maybe even harder. That’s the high ground. Let’s lead by example.

Peace.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 10:21 am ¶
Rob wrote:

While I understand that the placement of my comments were not correct, it is still very relevent because many Asian Americans feel it needs to be addressed from the black community. It seems to be a trend and I’m not targetting black individuals but these black organizations that seem to have the biggest voice since they “speak” for black people. In theory, anyway.

I understand that that nothing is more annoying than a “yes, it was wrong but you’re wrong to” response but I feel it needs to be brought up at some point because it’s never discussed on this website. Racism and indifference towards the “forgotten” minorities needs to end in American society as well as on these types of racially enlightened sites.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 12:04 pm ¶
Donovon wrote:

well, i wanted to throw my own 2 cents into this, but geez, i don’t know, it seems you all have said more than enough.

Well, the main goal is race or culture consciousness. So, it really is the goal that All communities unite to fight racism. So I agree, I hope next time that a black person says somethign offensive, black leaders will speak out. ( The reason why, or if, this doesnt’ happen, probably has a lot to do with the centturies of disempowerment of Blacks in America, nonetheless, it’s a new day.)

Maybe I should become a black leader. I would be KICKASS. My last boyfriend was Asian, and we had to deal with all kinds of uglyness from asian people, and funny looks from black people, and just bizzare looks from White people. Consequently, my ex has a lot of mental issues, and is really struggling to define himself in his world. He turned to hip hop, at least in a way to rebel and find something of a voice for himself. I find a lot of Asians do this.

BTW, did you know that back in the 60’s , Black actually meant people of all colors uniting to fight racism- not an actual racial group????

Black Power!!!

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 12:17 pm ¶
ren wrote:

Merq do you have a clue what a straw man argument consists of? What dishonestly construed argument was I bayoneting? Considering what you quoted me on, I’d like to add what actually prefaced those statements:

“In defense of Eng, I really don’t like where Ling-chi Wang is trying to pull the issue, yes education certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I’m weary of people who use the argument-killer that Asian Americans can’t criticize African Americans because the Civil Rights Act benefited Asians…”

My criticism is being lodged against Ling-Chi Wang, who hardly constitutes as an African American. In particular this comment he made regarding the Eng controversy:

“Ling-chi Wang, retired chairman of the ethnic studies department at UC Berkeley, said there is an urgent need for Asian Americans to be aware of the history of this country and know that Asian American gains have come largely as a result of the efforts of black people.”

For Wang to introduce this as some kind of argument against Eng is to distract from the real issue by introducing a historical anecdote that’s all but irrelevant in this situation. Eng says 90% of the Blacks he encounters hurl racist slurs at him, tell me how the Civil Rights Act lessening the Immigration restriction against Asians has anything to do with Eng’s claims. Is Eng’s hatred for these individuals really the result of lacking historical perspective and not giving Blacks enough credit for all of his personal gains? Trying to conflate Eng’s issue with Wang’s leads to an absurdity like my Puffy reference. Sorry to invoke Puffy, it’s never in good taste to reference Puffy. Don’t connect the asshats who racially harassed Eng with Blacks who supported Civil Rights. It’s disingenuous and a disservice to those fine African Americans who weren’t racist idiots. Eng, as an Asian, has the right to criticize whomever he wants to, without being under some burden that he owes “them” (who? some African Americans, all African Americans, only those that took up Civil Rights? Only those still living?) It’s so general that it struck me odd when Wang then says personal experiences cannot be generalized. The problem isn’t that Eng criticized, it’s that his criticisms were flat out stupid and he should be attacked on the dubious arguments that he makes.
(Rage’s “Why I Hate Press Release Reactions” posting goes into this far more eloquently then I, more palatable as well)

You don’t recall when Eng was citing specific instances of being victimized? He only said “in my (Eng) experience, I would say about 90% of blacks I (Eng) have met, regardless of age or environment, pokes fun at the very sight of an Asian (again I presume Eng). Perhaps Eng didn’t go up to record their name, age, and phone number like a good journalist would, but I would say that his reasons for hating black people IS being aimed at those that victimized him. The problem is that personal injustices have become the foundation for establishing his world view that despises all African Americans. To tell me that his hatred is for the entire race without taking into account the personal interactions with African Americans that he have negatively affected his beliefs, is to ignore the personal anecdotes that Eng uses to underscore many of his stupid generalizations.

So what exactly is this straw man argument I’m making? Your reasons are a bit vague, all I know is that it irritates you… am I to establish from your irritation that something I said was incredibly dishonest? I’m sorry it irritates you, but unless you tell me what in particular is wrong or what in particular bothers you so we can discuss it, I’m really not going to make arguments on the fact that you feel irritated… go have a beer.

What I said made no reference to the over-sensitivity of Blacks or accused them of crying foul at every instance. That you might have “felt” this is what was stated doesn’t prove a straw man. Considering the textbook definition of a Straw man argument is to take your opponents argument, misrepresent it by substituting a position that is either absurd or easy to refute, and then somehow attribute this argument as the views of your opponent… I’m going to have to ask you Merq to put away your straw man or at least build a sturdier straw man that I can be proud to take credit for.

If you’re convinced I’m making a straw man argument because I’m timid and need an easy argument to push over, you don’t have me pegged correctly. Want to accuse me of making a deliberate and dishonest distortion, the least you could do is prove it. Better yet, tell me how my weariness for those wanting to shut down opinions and criticisms that Asians have in their daily interactions with African Americans by invoking this historical racial debt of gratitude, magically becomes a criticism of oh so sensitive blacks who cry racism at every juncture. Walk me through the six degrees of separation that goes from my statement to invariably conclude with yours and if you throw in Kevin Bacon I’ll give you a heartier applause. Don’t just accuse me and walk off, come with a real argument and I’ll be happy to discuss it with you.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 12:57 pm ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

Hey everyone, let’s please try and not let this thread get too out of hand. Friendly reminder:
http://www.racialicious.com/2007/02/03/comment-moderation-is-back-on/
Thanks.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 1:09 pm ¶
mr guy wrote:

A little to late carmen …

So, we know the guy who wrote the article sucks.Good, we’re all in agreement with that.Now that everyone let out their frustrations, can any good come out of this?

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 1:39 pm ¶
Rabia wrote:

Ren-

not to take away from Eng’s experience of racism, but I find his claim that 90% of teh Blacks he has encountered poke fun at teh very sight of an Asian. I admit that I live in a remarkably racially diverse and harmonious bubble, but I find it hard to believe that there is a place in the US where 90%(!) of Blacks (or people of any race for that matter) would be so inconsiderate. Also, if you look up more info about Eng (particularly his piece about discrimination against Asians at NYU), you will realize that this guy is a bit of a nutcase and interprets people’s aversion to his own racist beliefs as anti-Asian racism. I would not be surprised if he sees anti-Asian racism where there is simply dislike for him as an individual, or even in benign words and actions. I personally cannot take Eng’s rantings as evidence of a consistent problem of anti-Asian racism among Blacks. I have no doubt that there are idiotic and racist individuals in every ethnic group, but I hesitate to generalize based on Eng’s experience alone.

http://www.thewilyfilipino.com/blog/archives/000917.html

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 4:21 pm ¶
ren wrote:

Rabia,

You’re free to find his claims dubious, I find all of his claims dubious. I’m arguing about what Eng is saying, that’s not in any way vouching for its legitimacy. Eng based his views of all blacks on personal experiences, that is true, now whether those personal experiences are true or actually occurred, or to what extent it’s true… I don’t know. Nobody does. I don’t know this man, where he lives, or what his life encompasses so I’m not going to say that he’s wrong about the insults he feels are hurled at him. I don’t claim he’s right, I’m merely pointing out the claims that HE is making. I agree with you, highly opinionated people are overly sensitive. And for those that want to feel persecuted, in that mindset, it’s simple to count the hits and ignore all the instances that run contrary to your specific worldview. Kenneth Eng is not an authority on anything, except Kenneth Eng, what can I do but agree. And no you shouldn’t generalize based on only on Kenneth Eng’s article but then again you shouldn’t do that for any article that presents itself as an Opinion piece. So I think we are in agreement.

This isn’t directed at you, or anyone in particular. Criticize the man, by all means, but people need to refrain from demonizing him. I’ve noticed a lot of sites have been playing up his atheism, that somehow this proves he’s just totally out of touch, vile and irrational and no wonder he’d make such stupid generalizations about blacks. As an atheist I find that kind of irritating. Look, I’m not overly impressed by his pseudo-mystical beliefs but frankly it’s no crazier than listening to many of the members of the National Academy of Sciences, our most respected scientists (and atheists) discussing passionately about M Theory or the Multiverse. Nor are his pseudo-mystical beliefs any dumber than holy crackers, Mary revealing herself in a piece of tofu and other religious dogma. His beliefs about reincarnation and parallel universes has nothing to do with his views on African Americans, apply criticism where criticism is due.

Want to kick Eng in the nuts? It’s deserved and I won’t stand in your way. But I’m not going to just write him off as being crazy as if he has absolutely no point at all. I skimmed over his Why I hate Asians and granted it was extreme but it didn’t sound as far-fetched as Asian Americans like to make-believe. Kind of sounded like my thoughts on a bad day… after downing a bottle of Chamjinisulro. We all know Asians that think like this, hell some of them I know abhorred Eng’s article on Asians despite practically mimicking this man’s opinions. I guess what we’re thankful for is that our thoughts don’t get published.

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 5:53 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Ahh, ren. I’d be lying if I said I read past the first graf of your response to me. Overly long and kinda reeked of defensiveness.

Seeing as Carmen has stepped in, I’ll go no further.

Take it in the spirit it was given.

ZenMerq Out

Posted 01 Mar 2007 at 8:37 pm ¶
bdsista wrote:

I have to say that Keith Lilly’s posting read more like a poem to me and I think that the racist commentary was deliberate in making a point about what racist views are held by all three groups and calling everyone on their stuff and the contradictory behaviors that all groups display.
As to the great divide between Blacks and Asians. My ex was half black half Japanese and so are my first cousins (Uncle married Japanese woman). There has been a lot of intermarriage between blacks and Asians in the armed forces for generations so I think that there is more support in the Black community for Asians than the media (all races) is aware of. After all, we are family.

IMO relations between Blacks and Asians has improved because of the markets and wig shops at least in the DC area. As a woman, I find that beauty supply stores end up being places where women talk, share, compliment each other, share ideas, etc. Not to be corny, but I was in one a while ago and a black lady (always black in Landover) comes in and her 2-4 year old daughter runs in the store and around the counter to the Asian lady behind the counter and it is obvious that there is an affectionate relationship with the child. The store owner has hired local high school or college students and obviously feels comfortable in an all-Black community. I felt no sense of condescension, just warmth and friendliness. Are there ignorant, rude, nasty black people? Yes, and I don’t like them either and I am black, but there are nasty ignorant people of all races and I think we have a greater chance of proving this guy wrong by looking past those who are ignorant and being decent to that stranger, who might look at you strange, but will respond to your smile and hello. Go watch the film Crash. At least we are talking about it here. It is silence that kills.

Posted 02 Mar 2007 at 2:58 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/16816414.htm

((”You have these stores run by the Asians staying up until 2 in the morning,” he said. “I’m going to shut them down by 9 o’clock… . What business do you have if you’re not selling drugs?”

A man in the crowd yelled, “Wonton soup!”))

Wow, now the city’s Asian population of 6% is now to blame for all your problems?

Posted 02 Mar 2007 at 10:35 pm ¶
abw wrote:

Could it be that Asians just don’t know?

I think it is? I do understand that Asians are frustrated at being overlooked on issues in comparison to blacks/whites? But speaking from personal observation, the black press does not let the black community off the hook on stuff like this! If I did not see the criticism that Asians label at other Asians in their own press, I could make the argument you do in reverse. I know you are not talking about the press, you are talking about activist groups, but I get the impression that ethnic activists criticize their own very critically more often behind closed doors if not in public! Anyway, I assume that there are cases where your argument in Reference to the NAACP and Rainbow Coalition, but these organizations often miss the relevance of issues as they pertain to the black community at times anyway. I can see your argument that with the influence they have they could do more, or that they give the impression they tacitly condone anti-Asian racism but it is not many organizations civil rights or otherwise that do all the stuff they claim they are going to do. This don’t take away from your legit claims but that is just my observation! Although I thought I saw somewhere that the NAACP or Rainbow coalition did protests the tsunami song! I still admire them for their past achievements and feel they do some good but this is just my impression to some extent! I do think that it would behoove organizations to stop ignoring Asian issues when they state the are multicultural organizations representing all POC! I will say that I do think Asians have a legit gripe when they say there issues get ignored in relation to blacks/whites in many instances or that some blacks ignore anti-Asian sentiments from other blacks. I often get the same impression from some influential Asian groups at times though in relation to black issues! Anyway, I do believe Asians have some legit gripes!

Apply criticism where criticism is due.

The poster talking about his atheism may have truly felt he had a legit gripe in bringing this up but people often do use unnecessary ad-hominem remarks in place of argument and they label folks instead of argument against questionable points in many arguments. Which does not always help matters.

Posted 12 May 2008 at 12:38 am ¶