Clemson University students also throw “gangsta party” on MLK day at Racialicious

Clemson University students also throw “gangsta party” on MLK day

clemson university blackface ghetto gangsta party

by Carmen Van Kerckhove

I’m with Philip on this. These pictures make me want to vomit. As if the head-to-toe blackface wasn’t enough, some girl had to stuff the seat of her pants to give herself an exaggerated butt?

According to this article, the students did not realize their “gangsta theme” party would coincide with MLK day and shocker, they did not realize this would be offensive to anyone:

Students who organized the party have come forward to school officials to express a desire to reach out to those who were offended by the event and the pictures posted of it, said Robin Denny, the university news services director.

“The students said this was not intended to be offensive to anybody at all and (they) did not realize it would be,” Ms. Denny said.

I’d like to hear from students of color at Clemson or any of the other universities that have thrown these “ghetto” or “gangsta” parties. I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that my classmates are indulging in this kind of racism.

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clemson university ghetto gangsta blackface party

Trackbacks & Pings

Women of Color Blog » The Sexiness of Racism on 02 Feb 2007 at 1:34 pm

[…] Posted by brownfemipower on 02 Feb 2007 at 10:33 am | Tagged as: race via racialicious […]
Study: racist language common among white college students at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 03 Feb 2007 at 10:32 pm

[…] Given the proliferation of “ghetto” and “gangsta” parties, blackface and racist “satirical” student newspaper articles lately, the results of this study come as no great surprise. […]
ALAG « Outside In . . . And Back Again on 30 Mar 2007 at 12:52 pm

[…] And here are more links about similar parties (with photos) at other universities (Clemson, Texas A&M, UConn, Arizona, William Jewell, Macalaster, Santa Clara, etc.): http://www.racialicious.com/2007/01/30/clemson-university-students-also-throw-gangsta-party-on-mlk-d… […]
Imus, Russell, Oprah and a whole lotta… | WOBL in Training on 19 Apr 2007 at 7:59 pm

[…] and speaking as if they are being recorded for a Kanye West album and video. When white kids throw parties like this one. I think there is a clearly a link that is being exploited. I am aware that stupidity is not […]

Comments

Rob wrote:

You know the warm feeling overcoming you when you realized you just did something or witnessed something completely wrong?

I have that feeling right now.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 2:32 pm ¶
Bohemian Writer wrote:

Well I’ll be damned…I hope this doesn’t happen @ my university next.Shit.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 3:01 pm ¶
ren wrote:

Unbelievable. Until I read what you wrote, at first glance I didn’t know that was an individual in blackface. Does anyone know the racial makeup of Clemson? The first thing they (anyone who is disgusted by this idiocy) need to do is petition university administrators and also the governing student organization. School administrators need to apply some disciplinary probation. More importantly, it shouldn’t be met out by University officials but by their peers, be that the governing student court. I highly doubt you’ll get them kicked out of school, but you may get them marked up for a violation.

School regulations function for one main reason, to protect the educational purpose of their respective University. These regulations apply to anyone that is enrolled as a student at Clemson, it says nothing of having to actually be on Clemson University property for these regulation to apply. Think of it like a code of ethics that has no jurisdictional boundary. However chastising you on a code of ethics doesn’t necessarily translate to actually citing you for a violation. That will most likely require that the incident be committed on University owned property.

The beauty about those huge student handbooks that every college hands you, is that they can be interpreted as broadly as the University sees fit. I highly doubt Delta Iota Kappa (DIK) has a charter nor functioned as an official student group. However, if it is a legitimate group and or it was done on a house on university property, the University can place sanctions on them for acting in a manner that doesn’t uphold the respectable image of Clemson.

Clemson has a policy for Harassment:

“No student shall commit any act, verbal or physical, which has the intent or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual’s or group’s educational or work performance at Clemson University or which creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive educational, work, or living environment.”

Jokes, graphic images, these all can pertain to the policy against harassment. Further more, this is pulled verbatim from Clemson’s Student Regulations:

“Also, since Clemson University cannot foresee each and every circumstance that may arise, all may not be included herein. As such, a student may be subject to disciplinary action when such behavior is deemed detrimental or disruptive to the mission, purposes and/or goals of the University, and may not be provided for herein.”

So even though they have nothing that speaks specifically of Ghetto Parities, doesn’t mean they can’t rule against it. They also add this nice point:

“Abetting or being an accessory to any act prohibited by the General Student Regulations shall be considered the same as a completed violation.”

Nail all of those idiot students instead of just the idiot that housed the party.

If you’re offended, Clemson students need to voice it. If you don’t this issue will fade or at the most they’ll have a diversity symposium which none of the violators will actually attend. Use the student government, I know most of them are morons, but they represent every student at the University, that’s their job, to advocate to administration on behalf of the student. Don’t just mutter about how racist this is, put some pressure on the university administrators. This issue is not merely concerned with hurt feelings, this has the potential to create a divisive rift between White and minority populations on campus and that directly affects the University’s policy that Clemson be a hospitable environment for learning.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 3:14 pm ¶
Madeline wrote:

There was a “pimps and hos” party at my college last year. I was pretty much shocked and appalled — not just because of the racism that I was pretty sure would be evident there (I didn’t go; I didn’t want to subject myself to it) but also because of the sheer gender stereotyping asshattery.

The worst part is knowing that the people who threw it are genuinely unaware that they are doing anything but mocking pop culture. It shocks me that anyone can be so oblivious to their own actions, and I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it. At the time, I didn’t realize that this was a trend — I thought it was a couple of thoughtless people being jerks. Wow.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 3:38 pm ¶
Paula Neal Mooney wrote:

Yes, the Clemson site says there’s about 1,100 blacks students out of a total of around 27,000 or so undergrads.

http://paulamooney.blogspot.com

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 7:25 pm ¶
Meg wrote:

did anyone else notice in the photos at thethink (linked in article) the students have the beer (?) bottles taped to their hands? Maybe that’s a typical college thing i don’t know about, or is it another one of their apparently unoffensive statements on ‘black culture’? Makes the ‘we didn’t intend to offend’ apology look stupider and stupider

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 7:50 pm ¶
Madeline wrote:

Meg said: Maybe that’s a typical college thing i don’t know about, or is it another one of their apparently unoffensive statements on ‘black culture’?

As far as I know (being a current college student in a town with several colleges in it) it isn’t. I don’t know if it’s supposed to be a statement on “black culture,” though — what in the world could they be saying?

(My mind is still boggling just a teense.)

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 9:22 pm ¶
Rachel wrote:

OMG!! These idiots.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 9:31 pm ¶
Meg wrote:

Madeline said: As far as I know (being a current college student in a town with several colleges in it) it isn’t. I don’t know if it’s supposed to be a statement on “black culture,” though — what in the world could they be saying?

(My mind is still boggling just a teense.)

i don’t know is the short answer - could be a drinking game. But my gut reaction given the offensive nature of everything else they were doing made me think maybe they were implying that ‘gangstas’ are always drinking/beer on hand (i.e. taped to them). And by statement on black culture i didn’t mean the students put thought into it i just meant they see it as representative of black ppl and that’s why they did it.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 9:41 pm ¶
Chaz wrote:

Pretty messed up, but I have to admit that when I was a student at the University of Virginia in the late 80s, we (my fraternity that was pretty diverse, especially for a Southern school) routinely had “Rednecks and Longnecks” parties. We dressed up like rednecks, that is to say, lower class whites (wife beaters, construction boots, flannel, jeans, etc.), and served beer in longneck bottles. Sadly, 18-19 year olds rarely know how stupid they are until much, much later.

Posted 30 Jan 2007 at 9:47 pm ¶
Hailey wrote:

Meg- In response to your question about taping beer to their hands I believe this is another trend. I just graduated from another school in South Carolina where I know students have “forty parties”. Once you walk in the door someone tapes a forty to each hand. This was explained to me by a students who attended one of these parties. I myself did not attend so I do not know what takes place.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 12:08 am ¶
tmk wrote:

Oh college culture…

I went to a midwestern college, predominantly white, and there was a fare share of pimps and hos parties (atleast those that were publicized–I wasn’t an avid attendee). Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were any “ghetto” parties that I wasn’t aware of. Luckily I didn’t bump into a blackfaced person or a chick with a padded ass…

I really don’t know what to think of these parties, and am trying to understand how they came about. And I think part of this confusion stems from the fact that these party participants don’t even know themselves what drives them–if they are fascinated, repulsed, or curious about “ghetto” culture and enjoy romanticizing it through pathetic attire and actions.

What makes it worse is that these people are supposed to be “educated” people. Can someone define education for me?

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 12:45 am ¶
Andrew/Animelee wrote:

Why are these allowed? They should be expelled…

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 1:15 am ¶
Al wrote:

This is nothing new! Just go to any white holloween party and you will see blackface, dreadlock and afro whigs, pimps, etc. I’ve seen this for thirty years. These college students will also be our future leaders. Now that’s scary!!

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 6:27 am ¶
Chris wrote:

When is this blackface nonsense going to stop. Some of this stems from people not knowing the history of blackface and the minstrel shows. I think this is why Dave chappelle’s pixie segment did not go the way Dave wanted it to go. In order for someone to get what Dave was trying to show you have to know the history and it was obvious that the black guy they ask about it, from the audience after they showed the segment, did know about the history of the blackface.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 8:41 am ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

What makes it worse is that these people are supposed to be “educated” people.

They are not educated people. They are college kids.

College kids do stupid things because they are young and have lots of freedom. They aren’t thinking about the consequences of their actions … they are blowing off steam, doing something they think is funny.

The images they mock are omnipresent in modern culture. While “pimps and prostitute” parties have been around forever, the connection between “hoes” and supposed ghetto culture is — without a doubt — the end result of 20+ years of rap music’s popularity and visibility.

It is rap that popularized the term “pimpin” … it is rap that popularized the terms “beyotches” and “hoes.” It is rap that brings these images of bling and 40s and a certain style of dress into people’s living rooms.

Without the visibility of rap, how would these kids know what to do if invited to a “pimp and hoes” or “ghetto” party? Have any of them ever been to a ghetto?

I’m not excusing these kids for their insensitivity or their lack of awareness. But I am trying to put their actions into perspective.

If you read this site, you are “plugged in” when it comes to sensitivity towards others and the danger of stereotypes. But most people — of all races — aren’t nearly as self-aware. They don’t have the same level of understanding as you do. And if they are white, that goes double — they have likely never experienced prejudice or bias directly.

In that regard, the visibility of these parties and the resulting photographs is a good thing. It will help other college students recognize and realize that these types of parties aren’t funny or harmless. And it will help university administrators recognize that there is still plenty of work to do to create understanding and awareness on their campuses.

Someone on another blog suggested that as punishment, these students should be sent to poor, inner-city neighborhoods to volunteer. I disagree.

What they need is exposure to middle class or upper class black families, with a dad and a mom who work hard and kids who go to school to get an education. They need to see that not every black person swills from a malt liquor bottle or dresses like a “hoochie mama.”

In other words, they need to counter the negative, stereotypical images of “pimps and hoes” with some real-live awareness that the overwhelming majority of black people are just like them — folks just trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

The bottom line: If you listen to or buy albums from rap artists that promote and glorify these images, you are doing more harm to race relations than you realize.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:58 am ¶
Nadia wrote:

“What they need is exposure to middle class or upper class black families, with a dad and a mom who work hard and kids who go to school to get an education. They need to see that not every black person swills from a malt liquor bottle or dresses like a “hoochie mama.””

this is not the solution. this plays into the whole idea of “good” black people vs. “bad” black people. exposure to middle/upper class hardworking black nucleur families isn’t going to change the attitudes behind these parties, because “good” black people aren’t the ones being mocked here. do you see anyone in a bill cosby sweater? no.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 12:55 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

>What they need is exposure to middle class or upper class black families, with a dad and a mom who work hard and kids who go to school to get an education. They need to see that not every black person swills from a malt liquor bottle or dresses like a “hoochie mama.”

Sorry, but I have to agree with Nadia: There are POOR and STRUGGLING black people who don’t drink malt liquor or fall into other stereotypes. Let’s not be classist as well as racist.

Funny thing is, in my city, I see more economic than racial disparity (although of course they can and do go hand in hand). There are a lot of poor single moms out there who are doing their best - they should get credit too.

And if you want to see the real problems, look at the drug trade, proliferation of guns (legal and otherwise), substandard housing and difficuilty getting housing loans, lack of business opportunities, lack of grocery stores, lack of public transit, poor public education, etc. as well as personal choice. That’s where the volunteerism angle comes in - that’s where the communities - ALL of them - need to step up.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 1:28 pm ¶
Tiger wrote:

I am a student and a member of the greek community. Delta Iota Kappa is not part of any greek organization (IFC, Panhellenic, etc.). Themed parties happen all the time here on campus whether it be jungle themed, white trash themed, or “urban” themed. Yes, the timing was poor for this party, and yes the guy painted black is a disgrace, however for the most part parties at Clemson are all in good fun and not intended to offend anyone.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 1:46 pm ¶
Open minded wrote:

It was just a …JOKE ! Get over it !
Look at the “real” problem’s in the black community, men that “do not ” want to work, men that do not “want” to take care of their kid’s, women that have a “mentality” they are “breeding machine’s” for these men and a overall lack of responsibility for one action’s !
Yes i’am black !

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 3:09 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

Tiger said,

Yes, the timing was poor for this party, and yes the guy painted black is a disgrace, however for the most part parties at Clemson are all in good fun and not intended to offend anyone.

Whether they happen often or not does not matter, whether they are intended to be offensive or not, still does not matter. Because at the end of the day, we who are the butt of these caricatures are still left with the dirty feeling of being broadsided by racialized caricatures.

And for all other “the proof is in the intent” folks, here’s a christian metaphor for you… There are sins of ommission and sins of commission and although intent separates them, both are still sins.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 3:15 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

this plays into the whole idea of “good” black people vs. “bad” black people …

There are POOR and STRUGGLING black people who don’t drink malt liquor or fall into other stereotypes

It is so difficult to communicate on this site because people parse every single line looking for issues to argue over …

I’m not implying that all poor people are bad or that everyone in a poor neighborhood drinks malt liquor.

My point is this:

To some 18/19-year-old white students, black life consists solely of what they see in rap videos and on associated television shows.

What they don’t see is the everyday existence of black families that are just like THEM … with the same aspirations, emotions and interests.

Sending them to volunteer in poor neighborhoods doesn’t accomplish that. If anything, it promotes existing stereotypes.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 3:40 pm ¶
Ashley wrote:

I do not think this was meant to be offensive to anyone. I can guarantee you 99% that if African Americans were to throw a quote un-quote “white party” it would go unnoticed. But, since the liberal media has nothing better to do than scrutinize every little action of the unintending and try to make it into something it is not, we have arrived here. Moreover, the 40s taped to their hands is a themed party. The object of the “game” is to drink your 40 before you can untape it from your hand. Seriously people, stop making something out of nothing.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 4:20 pm ¶
Nadia wrote:

“It is so difficult to communicate on this site because people parse every single line looking for issues to argue over …”

Maybe you just don’t like it when people disagree with you? In my previous comment I was responding to your whole entire idea about showing white people that there are black people “that are just like THEM.” Not only does this not stop people from holding onto deeply racist beliefs, it also absolves them of considering those beliefs to be racist because of some “good black person” (i.e. “my black friend”) example they can point to when they are talking about welfare, ghettos, gangs, rappers, prostitution, single mothers, etc etc, and about how “not ALL black people are like THAT.”

not to mention, the people in these pictures would be much, much more useful delivering meals on wheels in the hood then they would be having dinner with a nice upper middle class black family from their town.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 4:44 pm ¶
Sizwe_X wrote:

Yeah Ashley, I mean, how could ANYONE be expected to know that BLACKFACE and racist caricatures would be offensive? Aunt Jemima costume? Innovative! “I love chicken” t-shirt? Clever! Lighten up everyone, obviously its a conspiracy by the “liberal media” to take the fun out of the college experience and blow something out of proportion because, hey, we all know that there’s no WAY this could’ve been RACIST, right? Whiteface happens all the time, right? Ah, the burden of white privilege. It must be so hard to deal with, how do people cope?

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 4:52 pm ¶
kelly bachmeier wrote:

My goodness! How offensive! The party goers dressed in hip-hop clothing, they wore gold teeth, used improper english and drank “Malt Liquor”. In synopsis, a rap video; the style and behavior exhibited on nearly every rap video broadcast on BET and MTV.
Again, what’s the offense? Other than a knee jerk reaction from an overtly liberal media please espouse the offense. I see nothing more than the sheer imitation of current pop culture. The only item one can objectively find quesitionable is the gentleman in “black face”, which is more of a question of personal taste than offensiveness.
Clearly another example of Political Correctness run wild. Which reminds me of the title of a William Shakespeare novel.
“Much ado about nothing”

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:03 pm ¶
Jack wrote:

Whats the big deal? It was a gangster party! Not I want to offend as many black people as I can party.
I think you all need to just chill out and relax a little bit on the racial crap. It was all in good fun and no one got hurt because of it.
You all don’t have a sense of humor! And too much time on your hands to let something like this bother you.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:10 pm ¶
ren wrote:

Wait, the liberal media made the issue of blackface offensive? The liberal media also made it coincide with Martin Luther King’s day of rememberance? The issue of whether this party was right or wrong was arbitrary until it was skewed by the light of the liberal media? Is there anything the liberal media can’t do? *swoon*

And just curious but what exactly would a “white party” consist of? Because from this, it would seem to me that the blacks would have to come in with black face and fake gold in their teeth.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:12 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Kelly, Ashley, et al:

The people who do an offense DO NOT GET TO TELL OTHERS whether they should or should not be offended. To do so comes off as elitist and clueless.

I also find it amusing that suddently, FACEBOOK and MYSPACE is part of the “liberal media.” Since freaking when?
Remember, the media is only as liberal as the multinational conglomerates that own them.

And blaming MTV is moronic at best - if you think black people are monolithic then that is YOUR problem and YOUR ignorance. Now just take the race out of it for a minute and let’s see if your arguments hold water…

Lessee…

OK: there’s a gathering on campus called a “Crip Party:” Everyone come as someone disabled. People get to hobble around on crutches, use a wheelchair, act like they’re off their medication or have Tourette’s, walk around with a bloody knife muttering to themselves, give themselves a false prosthetic (hey! 3 feet! That’s funny!) How about conjoined twins? Oh, and the priceless photo that makes it only Facebook is the guy who avoids eye contact all night and quotes Rainman.

Everyone on campus who has a mental or physical disability, and everyone who has a family member or friend with a disability objects. As well as other people who are just damn offended.

But they shouldn’t be, cause it was just a joke, right?

Looks like bull, smells like bull…

[and apologies for the horrid sterotypes I used against the disabled - they were to make a point and I couldn’t find another way to make my analogy]

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:18 pm ¶
Sizwe_X wrote:

“How to suppress discussions of racism”

http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/607897.html

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:23 pm ¶
PissAndMoan wrote:

The sensationalist and bored masses frenzy over the moronic antics of college youth. This is hardly the KKK burning a cross in the yard. At first I laugh at how people try and make a big deal over nothing, and then I can only shake my head. With all the real problems to be concerned about, this making CNN only highlights the absurdity of liberals. It all boils down to it is not cool to be white, the news focuses on racism from whites and mostly ignores racism coming from all other ethnic groups, and oh yeah, vote for…gags…Hillary.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 5:41 pm ¶
Mendes wrote:

When I first heard about this on the radio(105.7), my first thought was what has some ignorant person done now. I could not believe that this news got out so fast. I saw that some people saw this as an act of racism. I have to disagree. There was nothing done to my knowledge to outright hurt another race. I did, however, see the worst steriotipical act I think that I have ever seen. I think that they were just trying to get some attention by doing something that no one has done on MLK day. Most people have gotten so comfortable with the Holiday and the speeches and rallies that I think a lot of us have become immune to the Holiday. I’m sure that the people who threw this party were expecting attention but not like this. Who new that it would bite them in the butt. God does work in mysterious ways. I’m sure that there is more ignorance to come!

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 6:16 pm ¶
DVMYERS wrote:

Get over it! It was a party where people did what they did and had fun doing it. I live in a college town that has 2 black colleges and parties are held every weekend at local bars with various themes. No one jumps up and down and screams and yells when someone throws a Pimp and Ho Party or a Gangsta Party! These parties are attended and thrown by blacks. Why is that OK but it is not OK for white people to do the same. OK, so these kids took it an extra step and some of them dressed as blacks — but the “gangstas” are black!! They seem to be proud of it around here. They have decals on their cars and front plates that say Gangsta on it. Now this is the same as they will call each other “nigga” but if a white person says it everyone wants to be offended. You teach people how to treat you!!!! When you act and speak in a certain manner that is the way you will be treated. If you don’t want to be called “nigga” don’t use the word yourself! Instead of the NAACP wanting to go after the few students that they feel disrespected the black race, maybe they should focus their time and effort in cleaning up the public image of blacks! Start with the celebrities and musicians!!! Don’t let black artists put out rap songs degrading black women but expect us to respect them. Don’t sing about being “gangsta” like it is a good thing but when some white students throw a “gangsta” party and act and dress “gangsta” get your little feelings hurt.
Lonnie Randolph, the president of the SC chapter of the NAACP was quoted in todays paper as saying “the party wasn’t just harmless fun!” Guess what — it was for those that were there I’m sure!!! Put on your big kid panties and get a life!!!
I don’t think it is “just harmless fun” when I listen to my 10 year old stepsons ipod and hear rap music that is degrading women and every other word starts with an “F.” Why doesn’t the NAACP worry about the image that is portraying??
You might say that I should keep better track of what he listens to. He downloads the songs on the internet. Maybe I shouldn’t let him do that, and maybe you shouldn’t have looked at someones party pics if you couldn’t handle what they might contain!!!!!
Enough said — Have a nice day!

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 6:22 pm ¶
kelly bachmeier wrote:

Lyonside,
First - this was a private off-campus party.
Not sponsored by the University nor on it’s hallowed grounds.
Second - the images were captured from someones Myspace site. Private photos of a private party (yes, the internet is worldwide but it was a private individuals site - not the Universities).
Therefore the party and it’s attendees did not violate any laws (the only question is good taste which is a personal judgement not a University nor NAACP matter).
And yes, it’s the Liberal media that has sensationalized the event and has again attempted to instill it’s politically correct values upon the majority of Americans.
And like it or not Lyonside, if someone wanted to have a Crip party at their private residence and make fun of cripples guess what, it’s perfectly legal. Not a University issue. Would it be in bad taste, Yes, but a University and Societal issue, not. We live in a free country called the United States. Ever hear of it?
As for the Hip-Hop culture, I agree with Bill Cosby and Spike Lee (who are at present at odds with the NAACP) that todays rap culture and all of the negativity associated with it has set back and impeded the advancement of the African-American community by several decades. Where are the role models? Where are the values?
The Gangsta Party - it’s just a negative externality of a cultural downward spiral perpetrated by rap upon it’s own culture.
In the words of the Oracle, “it’s come full-circle”.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 6:30 pm ¶
Johnny B wrote:

..just to comment, I hate these kids had to commit such a dumb act. I hope they realize what they have done and fell terrible for it. However I wanted to comment on the malt liquor taped to the hands. This is by no means a racist act. It is a drinking game, whish I refer to as Edward 40 hands, called this b/c it looks like Edward Scissor Hands when the bottles are tapped. It is when you tape the bottles to your hands and have to drink them before you..well do anything b/c you have f’n bottles tapped to you! Thats all I wanted to say..everything else in the pictures are terrible. I just wanted to clear that up b/c I love that game and do not want to be looked at as a rasict…just a binge drinker!!!

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 8:19 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:

And then the floodgates of deniers and apologists opened.

Welcome Kelly, Mendes, DV and whoever else, feel free to tell us all how YOU AND ONLY YOU get to decide what racial caricatures against black folk really is… Please be sure to blame us for what’s playing on MTV and other such media outlets (since blacks own it all)… Oh before I forget the most important part, we really should get over, if only because you said so…

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 8:21 pm ¶
ren wrote:

This is the funniest thread ever. I love this.

RECAP for all those joining us at the end:

We went from jackasses throwing a party, that accidentally coincided with MLK day, Mr. King’s fault for placing his day of remembrance on the date of their party. Then we learned that people who find that offensive are babies, hypocrites, pansy liberals, it’s really the liberal media’s fault, stop worrying about this there are real concerns in life that are more important like feeding the poor (though not as important as attending the ghetto party), this is an issue of privacy, invasion of privacy, invasion of privacy refutes morality, the global community of myspace, the global community of myspace should be private, stop looking at my myspace, what? a private feature for myspace?, personal taste, personal lack of taste, NAACP, NAACP is divided, black people don’t like the NAACP, sensationalism, media bias, cripple party, cripples and it’s dubious relation to race, crappy and or false analogies, free countries, America, people who have never heard of America, Hip Hop culture, Hip Hope culture to blame for party, Hip Hop culture is racist, racist to blacks, racist to women, racist to Bill Cosby, racist to role models, no role models, downward spirals, I went to college, I went to college but I was the janitor, you’d do it too, you’ve done it, you’ve done it in a sense, you have the potential for doing it, black people did it to themselves, negative externality and other words I pick up from Michel Foucault, chill out, be funny, I’m not offended, white people aren’t offended, don’t take offense, I took no offense… and I’m BLACK!, Shakespeare, mud to do about nothing, nothing to do, idle hands, hands taped to 40’s, white people have stupid drinking games, I *heart* chickens, white meat, Aunt Jemima, Aunt Jemima is a breeding machine, black face is a question of taste, television absolves everyone from blame, people imitate television, Baudrillard and simulacra, KKK cross burning, KKK never did ghetto party, KKK > stupid students, stupid students vote for Hillary, Hillary hates Obama, Obama has ghetto parties, ghetto parties held in madrasha, Allah wants Aunt Jemima in a burka, I want fat-ass girl in a burka, cut off their heads, their only victims, societies to blame!

If someone doesn’t make the obvious connection to Hitler or Stalin and the Gulog this thread will never meet my expectations.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 8:41 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Ren: that sum-up was brilliant

And the “hitler” connection was already made on another site (Rachel’s Tavern) and I freaked out on it as well… Something about how gangsta rap is the same thing as Naziism and therefore should be a source of ridicule? It was a fascinating piece of illogic that just about broke my brain.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 8:50 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Ren,

You. Are. QUEEN!!!!!!!

Just Wondering:
“I’m not excusing these kids for their insensitivity or their lack of awareness. “

Uhh… yes you are.

Without going into too much detail (as Ren already knoced it out of the park), I must tell you that you’re doing everything in your power to absolve these kids (nay, ADULTS) of any real blame.

BET is to blame for what they did? You’ve got to be kidding me.

And as far as meeting “upper-class blacks” goes, I must agree with Nadia in her “good darkie vs. bad negra” argument. Plus, I must add that your defense for that statement was even worse than the initial comment.

“What they don’t see is the everyday existence of black families that are just like THEM … with the same aspirations, emotions and interests. “

If I read that correctly, only wealthy blacks are capable of having aspirations and emotions above those of your average gangsta cliche? Dude, take a long, hard look in the mirror and realize just how deep your prejudices run.

I have nothing to say to the apologista and deniers. Your “minds” (to use the word loosely) were made up long ago.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 9:23 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Shame on you nice white folks. If this was a “mindless prank” or just “dumb college kids” why are the creators of these parties alway SMART enough not to invite or include black students?

Stop making excuses for racism. Stop blaming racist behavior on youthful flights of fancy or stupidity. Stop blaming hip hop. There are plenty of folks who are not “gangsta” in hip hop. In fact, every single one of those knunkleheads don’t know what real gangsta is. Hell, the biggest gangsta in the world is sitting in the white house looking at his homie Dick “Darth Vader” Cheney.

You keep thinking it’s harmless. The day of reckoning is coming. One of these times some black students are going to kick somebody’s white ass behind this stuff and then the real problems are going to begin. Just remember when the inevitable beatdown occurs, that its just harmless college stuff.

When I was a graduate student about five years ago, I saw a white student on my campus dressed as a Klansman for Halloween. I saw his stupid smiling face and I wanted to run his ass over with my car. I was pissed for days afterward and I have never forgotten it. That’s the problem with “harmless” pranks, they linger around in unexpected ways.

I also discuss this kind of incident with my students and I ask them what would happen if black students started running around in white face and had “celebrity whore” parties and giving prizes for the best Paris Hilton. How about a white man serial killer/child molester or American terrorist party with prizes for the best Tim McVeigh in white face?

I could guarantee that if black students threw a party teasing whites about their own stereotypes they would not be able to stand it for one minute. How about a in-bred hillbilly redneck wet hair and flip-flops in the middle of winter in white-face party? Sound like fun to me.

White college students are not that dumb, but they are that insensitive and self-centered.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 10:32 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

Some people really go out of their way to find things to be upset about.

Maybe your time would be better spent complaining about bad schools or crime or escalating college tuition instead of what some drunk 19 year olds do on a weekend.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 10:53 pm ¶
merq wrote:

“I also discuss this kind of incident with my students and I ask them what would happen if black students started running around in white face and had “celebrity whore” parties and giving prizes for the best Paris Hilton. How about a white man serial killer/child molester or American terrorist party with prizes for the best Tim McVeigh in white face? “

See, that’s the thing, Tracey. White America doesn’t have to worry about being represented by Hilton or McVeigh. So the damage isn’t even the same.

Sad, eh?

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:06 pm ¶
William wrote:

I wonder what institution, in their right mind, would actually pay a racist like Tracy to “teach” their kids.
I guess these Clemson kids would’ve been better off hosting a “white” Miss Clemson padgent. That certainly wouldn’t have offended anyone…right?
I’m quite certain that the black kids at Clemson don’t have their own “Gangsta” parties…right? Did anyone happen to the mug shot of Duane Coleman before his Clemson graduation? I can’t imagine where the party kids got the stereotypes from.
You people need to get a life and move on….

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:20 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

These little red neck s need they ass beat!!!! They need to come see about real BLACK FOLKS. What the fuck was that shit about, and on MLK day! Have they lost their damn minds. Some people need reorganize their brain!!!!!!!!

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:21 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

YOU GO TRACEY!!! I TOTALLY AGREE!!!! White people can be so ignorant about racial issues. And Tracey’s right, if black people would have thrown a “white people party” they would raise hell! That shit would go straight to court.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:28 pm ¶
Meg wrote:

>Anonymous wrote: Some people really go out of their way to find things to be upset about.
>Maybe your time would be better spent >complaining about bad schools or crime or >escalating college tuition instead of what >some drunk 19 year olds do on a weekend.

Don’t think anyone strained anything to be offended by this. I think the problem with stuff like this (which has class and race issues mixed together) is it betrays a wider negative attitude to (in this case black ppl) a certain group. Feeds into a “why should we fix schools, care about crime when they sit around drinking, smoking, etc” - it’s easy to ignore problems that effect others when you don’t have to think of the other person as a person but as a ‘character’ that you already know all about cos they fit into a predefined box.

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:34 pm ¶
Kev wrote:

1. This type of party should not have been held on MLK day. If this type of party was knowingly held on MLK day then I believe it had intentions other than just a party.

2. I can see music videos with scenes just like those party pictures on BET everyday, and I wonder if BET showed “gangsta” videos on MLK day. If so, are they just as wrong as these college students?

Posted 31 Jan 2007 at 11:46 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

I frankly don’t care anymore, If whites want to sterotype Afro- Americans then so be it. I am an “racial atheist ” and don’t believe whatsoever that Blacks and Whites can ever get along in brotherhood so the only conclusion is for us a people is to develop our safe independent neighborhoods and schools to educate our children and to support our HBCU”S so eventually they are fiancially solvent and we can edicate our own.

Do you people actually believe that the future of white america’s ,

lawyers
doctors
politicans
leaders of industry

according to these ‘ghetto parties’ on MLK day (and yes they knew what they were doing) will protect African- Americans? And if you answer yes to that question you are about as naive as Dustin Hofman’s rainman character. These white college kids know excatly what they are doing and the black students who showed up are just as bad as the white kids.

It is time for African- Americans to walk away from the ‘racial reconcilation’ table and focus on solving our problems. White America is socially and morally corrupt and the more we try to fix Amerikkka’s sins we get posioned even more. Most White Americans (75 percent) want to be racist, socially deviant towards African- Americans, I would rather have my sanity as a black man than to continue to have my humanity cheapened by these people. There may be only one race, but white americans are making very easy for me to want to hate them.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 12:12 am ¶
Tracey wrote:

Hey William,

My “party suggestions” were just that suggestions. Tougue in cheek, genius!
It was too show how dumb these so-called “theme” parties are. That does not make me racist, your personal attack makes clear that you are not particuarly intelligent enough to READ and SEE the difference.

Further, if suggesting what would happen if black students copied what white students have already done and discussing such situations with college students makes me a racist, then what does it make the people that have ACTUALLY done this acts?

What does it make people who want to dismiss racism as a “prank” or people like yourself who instead of engaging in intelligent discussion start calling people names.

Further, I love the people that continue to be dismissive of the incident and keep talking about “more important things to worry about.” You are right this was an off-campus party, but it became an on-campus event when these students posted that mess on my space. If you want to be racist,drunk, and stupid - keep it to yourself.

I don’t want to be sitting in class next to the white student that thinks stuffing her pants means she’s copying a black woman’s ass! I don’t want to teach a student that thinks taping a 40 ounce of beer to their hand reflects black America. Just because you are in college you do not have a free pass to act like an ass at the expense of other people.

I will say it again for the benefit of slow people like you William. It’s very easy to make fun of people when the people you are making fun of are not present. When I see those pictures, if reminds me of white people smiling and laughing in old lynching photos. It wasn’t funny then and it ain’t funny now!

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 12:19 am ¶
Nev wrote:

How is this different from any other theme party that college students throw? The fact that this one was imitating popular black culture is not racist; if it is, then hip hop culture is itself just as racist and degrading to the black community and to the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr. If the black community wants to point the finger at these students and scream “racism”, then they need to realize that THEY themselves are at the root of the problem.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:01 am ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Stop being a racist dumbass Nev, trying to justify racist behavior amongst those white students. Hip- Hop is a culture not a music with many schools of this culture from Dj, Mcs and Graftti art. If I threw a party celebrating September 11 with Black folks dressing up as radicals killing white people folks like you would call Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. And the ‘race card’ you are playing is lame as Kevin Federline’s rap career.

There are 38 million black people in this country and you whites are celebrating the worst commerical elements of rap culture, There are many types of black youth culture from hip- hop (which is a worldwide culture now)and black adult culture there is nothing for us to apologize for you idiot. This just tells me you are a white racist dumbass who knows nothing about black except what you see on T.V. go take a baseball bat and screw yourself .

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:25 am ¶
eric daniels wrote:

And Nev, stop committing politcal necrophilla on Martin Luther King because all you are doing is ‘black guilt’ I am tired of whites (and other people) using MLK when they want to defend racist behavior. I would rather deal with the Klan and Aryan Brotherhood than with “White Boys” like you, at least they don’t hide their condesending attitude about Afro- Americans like you trying to justify behavior that would get them hurt or worse if they went to a majority black speech.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:32 am ¶
Kev wrote:

Eric, if you had a Sep 11 party and dressed up like a radical (I guess you would dress up like a radical muslim) and pretended to kill white people (other than white people died in the WTC, thought you would like to know) it wouldn’t be “white” people you would offend, it would be muslims.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:39 am ¶
Kyla wrote:

Kelly - I’m a conservative and I’m not black, yet somehow I still found this little party offensive. It’s not “liberals” getting upset because it wasn’t “politically correct,” it’s people getting upset over a disgusting display of racist, classist stupidity.

Having compassion for others and paying attention to/taking responsibility for your actions and, yes, apologizing when you’ve done something crappy, like participate in the party above, doesn’t make you politically correct, it makes you a frigging human being.

Maybe instead of trying to tell black people what hurtful stereotypes they’re allowed to be offended by, you try putting yourself in someone else’s shoes for once, and consider how hurt you might be if someone made a complete mockery of your family and friends. Now imagine if it happened on a weekly or even daily basis all of your life, that you and your family were ridiculed and viewed with suspicion and contempt every day for something you had no control over. Now imagine that people throw a party mocking your family. How would you feel? If you try to say you wouldn’t care, you’re a liar.

The same goes for you all, Ashley, Nev, Mendes, PissAndMoan, and DVMYERS. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves for defending this b.s. You could learn something from the people you’re writing off as politically correct liberals, like maybe a shred of humanity and morality.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:33 am ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Kev wrote:

Eric, if you had a Sep 11 party and dressed up like a radical (I guess you would dress up like a radical muslim) and pretended to kill white people (other than white people died in the WTC, thought you would like to know) it wouldn’t be “white” people you would offend, it would be muslims.

Kev, that was the point but since you are so smug in your assertion I would offend Muslims that shows me how stupid racially you really are. I never said what type of radical you as typical of conservatives like you you made an Ass out of yourself. And If I threw a kill whitey party with a “Nat Turner” theme featuring pictures of the white students school ID who attended the “ghetto party” with “Kill Em All” over the top along with Body Count playing “Cop Killer” white conservatives (and I am assuming you are that Kev) you would call

Fox News
Rush Limbaugh
Stanley Crouch
Michelle Malkin
Bill Cosby

and every other conservative outlet and would rant about ‘black racism’(like our racism is so special) and every anti- black article, but unlike the black students you whites would send death threats to black students because it’s alright to threaten, beat up, and send threats to black people you do not agree with, but we have to live with what white students to do us with always the “MLK would have been tolerant of whites” And you people ought to be grateful we didn’t kill you all,Give me a break.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 6:59 am ¶
eric daniels wrote:

And I wouldn’t want any of these “white americans”

defending me in court
teaching my child
having to go to a bank for a loan
or having them to take care of my health

Their student ID’s ought to be posted in Newspapers either on Myspace, major news sources and be put in their student records so if they have to apply for a job they would be screened for their racial attitudes. These people should not be put in charge of

Black children
Black patients
Bank Loans

They ought to pay for their sins like poor black men who get out of jail and can’t find work, health care, or any other societal beneifit. When they graduate they should barred from attending any graduate school in this country and it should be public knowledge of what these ‘racists’ (yes Kev they are racists) and it should follow them throughout their lives just like those poor and innocnet Black and Latino men and women who suffer for whatever they did in the past. It is in my view the only detterent against these ‘racially themed’ parties.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:12 am ¶
Colin wrote:

I don’t understand alot of the people who try to defend the whites in charge of this party.

*Firstly, hip hop isn’t the sole nor primary object of their taunts and mimicry. People altered their physical bodily appearance, not just the clothes on their person, to mock black people.

Do people who don’t publicly associate themselves with hip-hop like Bill Cosby and Cuba Gooding, Jr. and Patti LaBelle deserve that? Do Barack Obama or Oprah Winfrey deserve that? Well, either way, they got it. That’s why I say the white students mocked ALL blacks, which leads into my *second subpoint: they would’ve mocked anything, so long as it was black.

If the popular black music were Duke Ellington and Ella Fitzgerald, expect to see blackface with someone playing a fake sax or faking to sing or something like that. It’s just not, “Hip hop is somehow more interesting to young whites than other black music was to young whites before my time.”

*Thirdly, this defense, similarly, that hip-hop culture makes whites say hateful things about blacks,makes me wonder, what made the guy do blackface? “Are blacks now too dark for their own good, too?”, I would ask. What made the girl pad her ass? “Are black women obscenely large in their posterior?” It’s not hip-hop’s fault that one group is still making light of another group that they’ve made light of for years. Like with Rosie and the whole “ching chong”-gate…do popular Chinese culture items bear blame for bringing racist comments onto the Chinese people? Do, say kung-fu films, have a part of the blame for racism against Chinese people?

*In reply to those saying the conspiratorial “liberal media” (woooo…) is sensationalizing this story and blowing it out of proportion, there is a multi-pronged answer.

a. I honestly hope you did not fall over yourself to decry things like John Kerry “making fun of the troops”, or Barack Obama “being taught in a madrassa”, or any of the many sensationalized kidnappings or the Peterson trial, etc. I hope you don’t get excited over ANY sensationalization, even the coverage of more mundane things like the Super Bowl (GO Bears!) or that NY subway hero. To stay consistent, I ask you, “Where’s the beef?” when it comes to those. Not to mention the Michael Richards racist rant. I would think you’d have supported him on that one against the “liberal media”, too.

b. The “liberal media” honestly hasn’t been picking this up THAT much. This was driven by and is being talked about on what’s termed the “alternative media” by many conservative pundits - blogs, chatrooms, forums, tmz.com, etc. Now, unless you also think the Internet is liberal, maybe you should calm down.

c. How does the source of the info, even though we know it’s not the mainstream press, make the picture, implicitly verified by the school and students, out to be more than it shows you right in front of your face? How does the source trump up the facts of visual evidence? I mean, you can see it right in front of you; unless you don’t think blackface or mocking stereotypical black female body types is racist on principle (if you can call it that) how do you defend your rationalization?

*Then onto the whole “we need to show whites middle class families so they can see a nice Cosby Show version of black people” thing…that’s not a solution, that’s just class warfare and racism rolled into one neat little ball. The idea that middle (or upper) class black families, one of which I am a member, are somehow on a higher moral plane is silly. Middle-class blacks (and whites to be sure) I know do drugs, are in gangs, and do commit violent crimes on occasion. Also, the point is not to educate the students that blacks are okay people, too…the point, in my mind, is to teach that the sort of hatred they espoused, or embodied or whatever you call it, it was evil and wrong and disgusting and needs to be rebuked and repudiated and demolished.

*Black students like myself do routinely feel more than a bit alone on big, mostly white campuses like the one I’m in, and I can say I’ve seen my own fair share of blackface in the streets and at parties, so these aren’t isolated incidents. This probably happens ALL OVER (the nation), ALL THE TIME, if other schools are anything like my own.

**P.S. 40s taped to your hands MIGHT be something racial, but of all the things, it’s one I’d probably not take as much if any offense to, simply because I don’t know of any stereotypes of black people loving to tape drinks to their hands. It’s usually a game called Edward 40hands, which is usually supposed to be funny because you’d have huge bottles taped to your hands and you’d have to do something like open a door or pick up a phone meanwhile.**

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:57 am ¶
Eddie wrote:

It is not racist to make fun of bad taste and poor behavior — EVEN if some people who embrace this behavior HAPPEN to be of a different race than ourselves.

It’s about time somebody had the courage to do this. Trust our young people to speak up when it is needed.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 8:36 am ¶
Kev wrote:

Eric, Gosh, put down the Hateraide. Those students are probably racists, I never said they weren’t. But from your remarks you are at the least very angry and at the most, who knows… “And you people ought to be grateful we didn’t kill you all,Give me a break. ” And if you threw a Sep 11 party, what type of radical would you dress up as…if not a Muslim radical then you wouldn’t of been dressed for that theme and then it would be some other type of “radicals killing whites” party…YOU said Sep 11 party.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 8:37 am ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

“(… how about a) wet hair and flip-flops in the middle of winter in white-face party?”

Please stop with the hateful racial stereotypes.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 10:05 am ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

White America is socially and morally corrupt and the more we try to fix Amerikkka’s sins we get posioned even more. Most White Americans (75 percent) want to be racist, socially deviant towards African- Americans

Eric, your comments are as racist as anything those white students did in those photographs … maybe even more so.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 10:10 am ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

The rap apologists on this post have yet to answer one question:

If these parties aren’t the result of 20+ years of negative rap imagery, then where did these kids learn how to dress and act to be “ghetto”?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 10:46 am ¶
DANGER wrote:

Holy cow I’m so happy Tracey was not one of my teachers. Still having homicidal fantasies? Makes me wonder if this psycho has those crazy eyes. Tracey is a hypocrite seething with racist hatred. It is disturbing to think that children are entrusted to a woman that contemplated a hit and run. I pity the fool that weds and breeds with this flawed specimen.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 11:10 am ¶
Sizwe_X wrote:

Looks like the Stormfront folks have arrived.

‘If these parties aren’t the result of 20+ years of negative rap imagery, then where did these kids learn how to dress and act to be “ghetto”? ‘

I don’t know, Just Wondering. Where did they learn to dress up like Aunt Jemima and wear shirts that say “I love chicken”? Maybe the liberal media, BET or the p.c. police, you think? Maybe there’s an evil cabal of long haired commie hippie illuminati. Where did they learn how to use burnt cork to perform minstrelsy? I don’t know, you tell us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 11:44 am ¶
Dimetrius wrote:

I graduated from Clemson in 2004, and at times could feel racial tension. However, I cannot believe that these kids, the leaders of the future, could be so closed- minded as to what they see in the media. I was probably in class with some of these students, and they should know that much of what they see on TV is an act. The other portion is ignorance. If this is what to expect from Clemson students which are suppose to represent some of the top students in the nation, then we as society have severely lowered our standards, and are in grave danger.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 12:22 pm ¶
Chaz wrote:

Wow, this discussion has really taken a bad turn. Attacking each other here doesn’t accomplish a damn thing. Are the Clemson students stupid and insensitive for throwing this party? Without question. Are they racists? I haven’t met any of them, so I don’t think I’m in a position to say - though I will say that while the kids may not be racists, they are on a very slippery slope. I will repeat what I wrote earlier. College kids do stupid things. White college kids, Black college kids, Asian college kids. They all do stupid things. I did things in college that now, as a 38 year old, I can’t believe. My 67 year old father has told me of stupid shit he did as a Q at Hampton that he’s not proud of. Does that make me, or my father, a bad person? No. It just shows that we were stupid kids. Stupid doesn’t equal Racist, though Racist does equal Stupid.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 12:22 pm ¶
APRIL wrote:

WOW. These are our kids these days? Kids learn a great deal from their parents. You can’t only blame these kids, but you can also blame their parents, who probably displays or has displayed some kind of racism. There is no way that these kids couldn’t have thought that this would be offensive. They knew exactly what they were doing. It is 2007 and this racism amongst all races is just as alive as it was 60-70 yrs ago. Its so wrong, but it will never go away.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:22 pm ¶
AGR wrote:

TO ALL OF YOU WHITES:

WHAT MAKES YOU GUYS THINK YOU ARE SUPERIOR? I BEG TO DIFFER. A GREAT DEAL OF YOUR DOINGS COME FROM BLACK CULTURES. SO, IN RESPECT TO ALL WHITE RAPPERS, ARE YOU DISSING THEM TOO?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:39 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

White America is socially and morally corrupt and the more we try to fix Amerikkka’s sins we get posioned even more. Most White Americans (75 percent) want to be racist, socially deviant towards African- Americans

Eric, your comments are as racist as anything those white students did in those photographs … maybe even more so.

Just Wondering, If my comments were so racist, then why didn’t you challenge any of my other thoughts like if I was a black would I want any of these “Good White Folk” like those people at that Clemson party

teaching my children
defending me in a court of law
taking care of my medical needs
helping me with my buisness needs

Because these people are racist plain and simple and just wondering since you continually accuse Hip- Hop as the model of black culture, it just shows you nothing about Black American culture poor or middle class. There are 38 million Afro- Americans in this country and we are as different as the clothes we wear, Hip- Hop culture has as many musics and cultural identifiers the world over like

Backpack
intellectual
rock
jazz- rap
Breakbreak
Dj culture

And many fashion styles from couture to youth culture and FUBU , Sean Jean, Kani and Phat Farm has children’s clothing , Shoes (either tennis, althletic and dress shoes) show it just shows your igorance to look at the most commerical and crass elements (usually brought by white males) and say that black culture is decadant. Yes you may think I am a racist “Just Wondering”, but like a friend of mine told me as a kid, “It takes one to know one”.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 1:53 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Danger and Just Wondering - Learn how to READ!!!! Once again, my comments were “what ifs” and you are reacting as if they were reality!

You have both helped make my INTENDED point. If black kids copied the behavior of these white students, folks like you Danger and Just Wondering would be offended.

What’s laughable is you getting offended over a “HYPOTHECICAL suggestion” , but in the sme breath are telling black folks to get over the real actual offensive act!!!

Lastly, Holy Cow!!! DANGER, I want to thank you individually for your close-minded and clearly racist and sexist comments.

I understand you completely, when you’re on the wrong side of the debate, you must resort to negative comments about the individual because you don’t have any facts or intelligence to compete with. I have some advice for you, you shouldn’t participate in the adult intellectual space if you want to act like a child playing in a sandbox!

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:15 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Danger and Just Wondering - Learn how to READ!!!! Once again, my comments were “what ifs” and you are reacting as if they were reality!

You have both helped make my INTENDED point. If black kids copied the behavior of these white students, folks like you Danger and Just Wondering would be offended.

What’s laughable is you getting offended over a “HYPOTHECICAL suggestion” , but in the same breath are telling black folks to get over the real actual offensive act!!!

Lastly, Holy Cow!!! DANGER, I want to thank you individually for your close-minded and clearly racist and sexist comments.

I understand you completely, when you’re on the wrong side of the debate, you must resort to negative comments about the individual because you don’t have any facts or intelligence to compete with. I have some advice for you, you shouldn’t participate in the adult intellectual space if you want to act like a child playing in a sandbox!

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:16 pm ¶
Sizwe_X wrote:

http://www.rachelstavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/raciall-theme-facebook-page.jpg

“i’m lovin the nig costume”

Yeah. Harmless fun. A joke. People should really just get over it.

Wake up and smell the racism.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:21 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Thank you Tracey and Sizwe X, these people don’t see the racism in these white students, they are going by the conservative culture war playbook. When caught in a obviously racist situation rant and rave about

a.ghetto culture
b. Liberal media
c. Black Organizations
d. MTV or BET
e. Use Bill Cosby to defend their arguments
f. Become defensive on race
g. Say slavery ended a long time ago
h. Proudly defend their anti- P.C. behavior
i trot out Jesse, Al, and Louis

They just can’t say that these kids were racist and knew what they were doing, It’s like Just wondering and the rest of the ‘racist right’ think that Black folks are the real racists and should just shut up. These white kids wouldn’t know irony or satire if it bit them on their asses.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:36 pm ¶
rev wrote:

The party was a private, off-campus party. It was in poor taste and could be construed as offensive by many, particularly since it coincided on MLK Day. However, the same people who scream this is awful say under their breaths, “stupid Southern rednecks.” Political correctness works both ways. The same PC folks who decry this behavior, slam poor uneducated whites, so it becomes both a race issue vis a vis blacks and a class issue vis a vis whites. Classicism is as bad as racism. For Clemson University (I am a faculty member’s wife), it is a branding issue. The party wasn’t illegal, but it leaves the outside world with the feeling “all” Clemson students do this. I think it was in bad taste, but that’s as far as I’m willing to go, and beyond that, too much is being made of it.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:45 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

since you continually accuse Hip- Hop as the model of black culture, it just shows you nothing about Black American culture poor or middle class.

Eric, you aren’t reading what I’m writing.

I never wrote that “hip-hop is the model of black culture.”

What I wrote was: ” To some 18/19-year-old white students, black life consists solely of what they see in rap videos and on associated television shows.”

From that, can you at least infer that I recognize black life DOESN’T consist solely of what people see on rap videos? Or do I have to spell that out?

You also wrote: “it just shows your igorance to look at the most commerical and crass elements (usually brought by white males) and say that black culture is decadant.”

I never, ever, ever said black culture is decadent.

I do believe that much of what the general public sees about rap culture — and to be clear, so there’s confusion, I recognize that NOT ALL RAPPERS ARE THIS WAY — but much of what we see from rap is extremely negative and frankly, a bad influence. It’s a bad influence on young blacks, and a bad influence on young whites (especially as it relates to their understanding of blacks).

I don’t see how anyone can argue that point.

It’s my opinion — and you are free to disagree — that anyone who defends rap music without at least acknowledging its harmful legacy is closing their eyes to reality.

If you are a student of hip-hop or someone who knows the rap genre well, you can separate out those who glorify pimpin’ and the thug life from the rest.

But for people who only see the images flash past them as they change channels or catch a glimpse now and then, it’s all one and the same.

And that’s the point I am making. I believe these students are insensitive, yes. I also believe that that it’s disingenous to suggest that it’s okay for rap artists to dress and act like fools but not okay for people to make fun of them for doing so.

It’s also disingenuous to say that black culture doesn’t solely revolve around bling and grillz and 40s, and then to suggest that anyone who mocks those icons is ridiculing the entire black population.

Despite the complexity of these issues, many people on this site see things — pardon the expression — in black and white. They feel tremendous angst over being stereotyped in their lives, yet they are quick to paint people of the “other kind” with a broad brush.

In their minds, the people in these photographs are all horrible hateful racists, when the truth is probably not nearly as clear-cut.

And that leads me to your comments, Eric, that “white America is socially and morally corrupt” and that “75 percent of white Americans want to be racist.” Those are mighty strong statements for someone who purports to be against stereotyping and racial generalizations.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:54 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

I left out the word “no” in this sentence …

I do believe that much of what the general public sees about rap culture — and to be clear, so there’s NO confusion,

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 2:58 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

The party was a private, off-campus party. It was in poor taste and could be construed as offensive by many, particularly since it coincided on MLK Day. However, the same people who scream this is awful say under their breaths, “stupid Southern rednecks.” Political correctness works both ways. The same PC folks who decry this behavior, slam poor uneducated whites, so it becomes both a race issue vis a vis blacks and a class issue vis a vis whites. Classicism is as bad as racism. For Clemson University (I am a faculty member’s wife), it is a branding issue. The party wasn’t illegal, but it leaves the outside world with the feeling “all” Clemson students do this. I think it was in bad taste, but that’s as far as I’m willing to go, and beyond that, too much is being made of it.

And Rev, how about plain common sense and dececny, it seems that these white students are racist as hell. You whites don’t like it when Blacks like me sterotype whites and trust them but the minute you folks throw a ‘racist party’ you go to the CONSERVATIVE PLAYBOOK on race and do everything in your power to deny behavior that is at best insesntive and at most determental to future race realtions.

I always hear whites whine at why Afro- Americans come across as hating whites when they reach out in friendship and black folks reject whites, it is because of attitudes like yours that Afro- Americans do not trust whites or their minority defenders.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:03 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

It’s like Just wondering and the rest of the ‘racist right’ think that Black folks are the real racists

Eric … you are not doing yourself, your point of view or this site any favors by calling me names.

If it helps you any, I don’t doubt for a minute that some of those kids are racist. But as Chaz wrote, I don’t know them so I can’t put them all in the same category.

But, please … explain to me how their racist viewpoints about blacks wearing bling and drinking 40s are any worse than your racist viewpoint that all whites are socially and moral corrupt?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:08 pm ¶
rev wrote:

Eric -

I went to school in an almost all black public school system when I was a child up to high school. I have worked for a black boss, had a black roommate, and FYI, my very best girlfriend is black. So don’t paint everyone with this broad brush “you whites.” I am not playing by a conservative playbook. It was a stupid, insensitive party done by young, insensitive people. Yesterday I heard someone in Clemson say, well I’m glad that not just the rednecks are doing it (referring to the U. Conn party). I find that kind of characterization of South Carolina students as rednecks equally offensive. My point is stereotypes cut both ways.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:14 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

I can explain this just wondering, and very easy I might add. White Amerikkkan culture is in a nutshell from what I see on television and with my own eyes as

a. decadent
b. materialistic
c. self- serving
d. obessed with celebrity
e. in denial about their own morality
f. would rather start wars worldwide
g. racist about their OWN BEHAVIOR
h. whine and blame others for their misteps
i. Have a cultural problem with their families

I can go on and on but since many whites (not all) always complain about black behavior, where do you think black kids get their cultural siginifiers from? Hip- Hop only illustrates what is the American ID, and since the majority of white americans act in the ways I expalined that’s why they are morally and culturally corrupt in my opinion. Any other questions?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:18 pm ¶
rev wrote:

Eric -

I think any time one makes a broad set of assumptions and generalizations about any group of people, that is, inherently racist. Unless you have a magic ball to look into everyone’s heart, I would ask myself why you feel the need to make these sweeping statements. I, as a child, was often taunted and teased by blacks in school for being white. Does this mean that all blacks are racist towards whites? I don’t think so.

I think the U.S. is a very diverse country (and yes, there’s tremendous diversity even among whites).

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:27 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

Any other questions?

Just one … so you can generalize about white culture by watching TV?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:28 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Well Rev my generalizations on the matter of race is what I see with my own eyes and in debates with whites. I have come to the conclusion that racism is a fact of life and we as Afro- Americans should scrap the “racial reconcilation crap” and for the most part ‘try not to kill each other or start a ethnic war between Negroids and Casusoids in America’. I believe in a tenous racial co-existence with the white population, dealing with white americanfolks is bad for a black man’s health (if you read all the stats) it’s better than the alternative.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:35 pm ¶
rev wrote:

No offense, Eric, but it sounds as if you have the race attitude problem here.

I wish you all the best.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:39 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

Just one … so you can generalize about white culture by watching TV?

Are you that dense Just Wondering, I have dealt with Whites most of my life either in school or on the job. And the opposite of what you asked me, How can you generalize about Black culture by watching TV? You can’t have racial tolerance both ways, criticizing me for my attitudes while defending those white students nationwide who throw ‘black themed’ parties. These people have dealt with Afro- Americans of all types in their lives, they can’t be stupid or are they just racist?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:42 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Rev,

Considering that black students at Clemson do not number 1800 out of well over 17,000 students, you don’t see how such an incident on campus or off would be upsetting?

It’s got nothing to do with PC, clearly all the black people you claim to know you need to ask them how they feel about the incident instead of you deciding from your position of white priviledge that it’s not a big deal.

Since you are a Prof’s wife, you should know the history of Clemson University and its history with black students. Does Senator Ben Tillman ring a bell?

Change is based on trust, whatever goodwill that had developed on Clemson’s campus was damaged and rolled back by the antics of the white students.

I have never understood this PC argument. It’s PC to expect people to be respectful of your race and culture?

Further, if this is not such a big deal then why are white kids the only ones doing it? If this is just “dumb college kids” why isn’t it a universal actions. What do minority college students understand not to have “white-face” parties, but white students do not?

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:46 pm ¶
rev wrote:

Tracey -

I never decided anything. I expressed my personal opinion. And you are making a judgment in your statement that because I am white I am priveledged, without knowing anything about my personal history. I am not going to get personal on this. And I never said that no one wouldn’t find this upsetting. I hope it is dealt with appropriately, not excessively. I can also point to a lot of racial insensitivity on everyone’s part. There is a lot of racism to go around among a lot of different groups in equal measure.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 3:55 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

You can’t have racial tolerance both ways, criticizing me for my attitudes while defending those white students nationwide who throw ‘black themed’ parties.

Or is it the other way around? Maybe you can’t criticize the white college students while carrying such racist attitudes?

Look, I’m not defending those stupid kids. I’ve written before that what they did was offensive and wrong.

I believe they should have more common sense, but I’m not so quick to write them all off as flaming racists. Some I’m sure hold racist beliefs (especially the Tarleton kids), but as we’ve proven in this thread, that’s not isolated to white people, is it? Hopefully their experience will enlighten them and expand their awareness.

One of the themes of this blog is the negative impact of racial stereotypes in the media. It’s a frequent topic of posts and comments.

Yet rap music is the two-ton elephant in the room … no one wants to admit that THOSE negative images might be problematic, because they aren’t generated by The Man and so aren’t as easy to criticize.

When will people wake up and realize the tremendous negative impacts that the “thug life” culture has wrought? The kids who mock it are sending a message that goes beyond their own insensitivies.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 4:11 pm ¶
eric daniels wrote:

One of the themes of this blog is the negative impact of racial stereotypes in the media. It’s a frequent topic of posts and comments.

Yet rap music is the two-ton elephant in the room … no one wants to admit that THOSE negative images might be problematic, because they aren’t generated by The Man and so aren’t as easy to criticize.

When will people wake up and realize the tremendous negative impacts that the “thug life” culture has wrought? The kids who mock it are sending a message that goes beyond their own insensitivies.

Just wondering, all you get on the rap music criticism (a common theme amongst people like you) is “fire and snakes”. I never hear why dressing up like a “goth kid” or Punk Rocker also has a negative social impact and led to the school killings like in Columbine and nationwide. I never hear why Maryilin Manson, KDFM, and NIN who in fact inspired Klebold and Harris to kill their fellow students and teachers. You want to make an argument out of a strawman.

Rap music or so-called “thug life” is not the problem except amongst people like you who want to defend those white students. Do you see the majority of nerdy Black Kids go to school strapped with a gun and propane lighters as bombs killing their fellow ‘thug students’ or jocks. I have read about white kids being inspired by metal bands like Slayer and Metallica for raping and killing a 3 y.o. child in Kentucky. You can’t blame pousers like Snoop Dogg and Fifty Cent for everything that is wrong in black youth culture .It is a parents responsiblity to shield their children from what I call “grown folks music”.

And since you don’t want to debate Manson, Death Metal, Metallica or Slayer and the impact they have on white children when they have committed henious acts, you are being intellectually dishonest as well as a racist.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 4:41 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Rev,

You failed to answer the question at hand. This is not about “other folks” racism. It’s about the incident at hand that you referred to as a “PC” issue. Your words not mine. I find it interesting that this discussion now is trying to find a way to blame the victim.

To Just Wondering -

You can make hip hop the big bad wolf in this discussion, but its bogus. Does rock and roll, heavy metal, and alternative rock music fall in the same negative catergory as hip hop?

Where was all this outrage when the lead singers of Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were openly abusing drugs. Guns and Roses with its infamous rape album cover. Rock and roll artists cornered the market on alcohol and drug abuse, negative and sexist images long before hip hop came on the scene.

Are these white dominated fields of music just as damaging or is it just because hip hop is dominated by black artists that it’s so damaging? Why are white people considered competent enough to filter negative images in their culture, but black people cannot? You’re trying to blame hip hop for social ills that have been affecting black folks for many years before hip hop even existed.

Quite franky, I’m at a complete lost where these images the Clemson students were mocking came from. Eve doesn’t even rap anymore and some girl was mimicking her. I’ve not seen Kanye West, Little Brother, The Roots, Ludacris, Common, Jay-Z, Nas, or Diddy with a 40 ounce bottle “taped” in their hands. In fact that malt liquor image has fallen out of hip hop music well-over ten years ago. It’s a stereotype.

There is no image in hip hop that suggested to white folks that you need to put on black face or stuff your pants to be down with hip hop or be “gangsta.” Further, several of these students are mocking black fraternities and sororities that have absolutely nothing to do with hip hop. This kind of stuff has nothing to do with hip hop.

Why don’t they mimic their own, Vanilla Ice, Everlast, Eminem? Eminem wears a do-rag even though he does not need it, no one views it as disrepecful. He’s just copying the style of dress currently in hip hop. White female rapper Lady Sovereign is rocking the old school Roxanne Shante hairstyles. There is nothing disrepectful about that. No one black wants to see a white person in black face. No one. That’s not homage, its heckling.

If these kids had just worn hip hop gear minus the black face and other racial stereotypes there would have been no real issue, but they did not. They knew exactly what they were doing.

They were not copying hip hop images, they were mocking what they think black people are like. These students had to ignore a lot of positive images of black people to do these stuff including their black classmates on campus.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 5:00 pm ¶
rev wrote:

No, Tracey. I don’t think you read my post correctly. I said the same people who scream political correctness abuse other groups in different ways. I never said that this was acceptable. I said it was in poor taste. And I believe it was in poor taste. I, myself, would have never participated in such a thing. My point is, I find a lot of hypocrisy in people who decry this behaviour, but then in the same breath characterize these students as stupid, Southern rednecks. Neither the party, nor the characterization of these kids is acceptable to me. I think the whole thing is unfortunate, but it’s just getting too much air time, which only reinforces its legitimacy.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 5:06 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

Eric wrote:

I never hear why dressing up like a “goth kid” or Punk Rocker also has a negative social impact and led to the school killings like in Columbine and nationwide. I never hear why Maryilin Manson, KDFM, and NIN who in fact inspired Klebold and Harris to kill their fellow students and teachers.

Well, if you had been paying attention, you would have heard a lot of talk about those very issues.

I happen to believe that artists like Marilyn Manson ARE damaging to some young people.

If there is a difference, it is that none of those artists have or had the same widespread visibility as today’s leading rappers. They were niche performers. Rap’s popularity and visibility far surpasses that of any “death metal” band … it has become mainstream.

Tracey wrote:

they were mocking what they think black people are like

Eureka! That’s what I’ve been saying all along. And where do you think they get the images of “what black people are like”?

My guess is from rap videos and associated television shows. But I could be wrong.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 5:30 pm ¶
DANGER wrote:

Tracey, the post I referenced does not say anything of the things I called you out on are HYPOTHETICAL. Practice some memory exercises to better keep track of your scattered, incoherent thoughts. If your bigotry is hypothetical, then you should state that in the SAME post. I do not retract any of my assertions and now find myself more convinced of the truths. It is ironic that the so called teacher is being schooled on logic. You have made my intended point that you are full of nasty hate and by far unfit to step anywhere near a classroom of young, impressionable minds. I don’t doubt you put on a good act and fake your way in with a normal demeanor like the wolf in sheep’s clothing. When you start insulting others, you should not be surprised to find the insults flying right back at you. Read your posts again and clearly you exhibit the juvenile hostility you imagine yourself to be above. What, you can’t take it when the hostility comes back at you? Hypocrisy from Tracey - how shocking! My advice to you is to seek professional help/medication so you no longer are mistaken for a rampaging autistic she ape.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 5:47 pm ¶
Just Wondering wrote:

I’ve very disappointed in the direction this thread has gone and the discussion is over as far as my involvement.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 6:05 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

DANGER you are exactly what your screen name states “DANGER!!

You are a complete RACIST. Buy a dictionary. Suggesting a scenario that turns a debate on its head is not racist nor bigoted.

I never said I believed in doing such things personally, I said “what if” black You students started doing these things, what would “possbily” happen.”

I didn’t insult anyone nor did I make any racist or sexist statements directed at you, but you have attacked me racially from your first post.

You are a clearly racist and sexist!!!!! You don’t need to retract anything, the more you post the more you prove that you are a complete RACIST and have no business entering into any intellectual discussions because you have no control over your emotions or personal racism.

You’re the raging bigot that wrote “rampaging autistic she ape.” This are your racist and sexist words. No one called you any name regarding your race or gender, but there you are attacking me. It’s sad that you feel you can’t compete in the intellectual discussion so you resort to personal racist and sexist attacks. I feel sorry for you.

Keep on with your racist and sexist rants. I’m laughing at you. Your posts reflect your lack of education and your complete lack of tolerance. You can call me names and attempt to insult me all you like, you make it easy to prove the struggle black people face in America. The funny and most important is, the more racially nasty and sexist you act, the stronger and more powerful I become!!!!!

As I stated before, THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINTS about racism in America!!! God bless you and I hope that you find somewhere or something to fill up that black hole of racial and gender hatred you possess. I will pray that you seek treatment for your racism and sexism problem and get cured.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 6:25 pm ¶
rev wrote:

This whole level of discussion is pathetic and not worthy of people who deem themselves intellectuals or moral arbiters. I would suggest everyone take a deep breath…

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 6:43 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Well Rev,

Race is tough subject. In a society where people want to believe that we all get along when we don’t. I stated my feelings and views without calling anybody an ape. It’s funny that a discussion about a racist act gets out of control based on Danger’s racist slur. I don’t need to take a deep breath, I’ve been facing and fighting folks like Danger all my life and I’m still winning.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 6:50 pm ¶
rev wrote:

I think that Jesus’s admonition to treat others as one would treat himself (I may be misquouting) applies to all people. Whenever we view others as being different or unworthy of our respect, we run the risk of being racist ourselves. Maybe when we forgive ourselves, we forgive others…..

P.S. I wish I had a dollar for every time I as a kid was called “honky” :))

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:11 pm ¶
Meg wrote:

Tracey wrote: If these kids had just worn hip >hop gear minus the black face and other >racial stereotypes there would have been
>no real issue, but they did not. They knew >exactly what they were doing.

this topic seems to have exploded a bit and i haven’t read everything but Tracey’s comment sums up the general problem - there was no attempt to dress like specific ppl e.g. public enemy, eminem, 50 cent in the way other fancy dress parties might have you dressing up as the easter bunny or daffy duck. So they were mocking rather then attempting to look like someone. And to play devil’s advocate - if they genuinely thought they were not causing offense and didn’t know when MLK day was, then that in itself is a problem. Also they’re being called ‘kids’ which i probably did at some point in this neverending thread :), but they’d have to be at least 18 (?) to be in college and if it’s a graduate program even older still. So really, the ‘dumb drunk kids’ defense doesn’t hold much weight with me (a sometimes drunk young adult ).

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:39 pm ¶
rev wrote:

They are essentilally kids, children… When one gets to be in ones 40’s, the point is well made.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:47 pm ¶
rev wrote:

P.S. I misspelled essentially…..

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 7:48 pm ¶
Colin wrote:

I’ve said it before, oddly without response, but the idea that these parties, and that’s the subject, had many racist images not refering only to what can be considered “gangsta” imagery. Why is the issue so deflected? Why not discuss the effect of white students having blackface and “big butts” at parties? What part did hip-hop have in that? I mean, this blog has shown that the mimicry of blacks and perceived black culture has happened over and over and over, before the hip-hop culture took hold. Jazz and slave cultures were mocked. Look at that Sebben Dwarves cartoon posted recently; hip-hop is not the cause for racist imagery among whites, true prejudice and ignorance is.

Now, I admit readily that there are very bad elements of hip-hop society. Many of my fellow black men are getting too angry and too willing to resort to whatever means to find immediate gratification; there is little of the patience left in poor black society that there was in the 50s and 60s and I think that makes gang life easier to live with.

Even here, though, I feel that there is a significant role that whites play, at least whites in power, to right the wrongs of unequal American society and respect the humanity, the dignity of black folk by protecting fundamental rights and privileges, like equal housing rights, equal voting rights, equal opportunities, etc., and as blacks see the whites in America resist such equality, their patience with power-wielding whites decreases, and alternative solutions to everyday problems increase. That doesn’t mean the solutions are good ones to me, but in the minds of the many blacks facing racist legal systems, hiring practices, etc., turning to hip-hop culture is not only good, they’re necessary.

Lastly, I don’t think the discussion should end merely because peoples feelings are hurt. I think it’s better to give this conversation one more chance at least; to me, it’s important.

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 8:58 pm ¶
Colin wrote:

Edit: “but IS the idea that these parties, and that’s the subject, had many racist images not refering only to what can be considered “gangsta” imagery.”

Posted 01 Feb 2007 at 8:59 pm ¶
Nadia wrote:

rev: “However, the same people who scream this is awful say under their breaths, “stupid Southern rednecks.