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On James Brown. “The driving rhythms, laced with pulsating bass and a horn section, and Brown’s unforgettable voice—letting out piercing yells and growls and non-verbal utterances was the voice of an oppressed people. “
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“Thandie Newton’s mother character got dogged severely…when she left Gardner and her son for a better life, I could not find it in my heart to condemn her for the decision…”
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“Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that a plus-sized woman is getting love on the national level, but I’m worried about ABC’s racial reasoning…the smaller and “more married” [Star Jones] got, the less popular she was with The View’s audience.”
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Thanks Jason! “award a $25,000 United States savings bond to the first American baby born in 2007…The baby girl, Yuki Lin, was an American citizen…she was ruled out because her mother was not a legal resident…”
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“Many of us associate the northern states with safe havens for runaway slaves or we see the North as a migration point for slaves after emancipation. But, Brooklyn, New York had a high proportion of households with slaves.”
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“…the first black mayor of this overwhelmingly white town started learning his new job…But by 10 p.m. Gerald “Wash” Washington was dead…a bullet wound in his chest. His gun was found by the body.”
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
bamaman83 wrote:
Another slavery museum. Will blacks ever let it go…?
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 6:23 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bamaman83:
Another Holocaust Exhibit (that’s what it is, not a whole museum)… will the Jewish people ever let it go?
To which the same reply is valid for both groups: until we know the full history and understand exactly the scope of what happened and ensure that it can never happen again, WHY SHOULD WE?
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 6:31 pm ¶
bamaman83 wrote:
The Holocaust was only about 50 years ago – slavery in America ended 150 years ago. Jews have faced much more oppression than blacks, yet today they [Jews] are one of the most successful demographic groups. Instead of complaining all the time, they actually applied themselves. Why haven’t blacks done the same?
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 8:21 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
OMG, are you serious?
You really believe that the minute the Civil War was over (which was fought over more than slavery – the US had a lot of issues), black Americans were given the Keys to the Kingdom?
Right. So, immediately after the Civil War, voting rights were given, and there was equal opportunity for land ownership, bank loans, housing, and education? There were no mass lynchings (North and South)? No on the books or de facto segregation? No limitations to armed service and the benefits of the GI bill during/after WWII? Blacks had the right to marry whoever they wanted? Live wherever they wanted? Have their children in good schools with white children? Sit anywhere on a BUS? Be treated with respect and not a demeaning “boy” or “girl?” Have equal opportunity in employment and advancement? Get served in the FRONT of a restaurant, not at the back door? Get a freaking clue.
The Voting Rights Act was passed by President GERALD FORD (props to the deceased). The civil rights movement can trace its roots to the post-Civil War era right through the 1970s. And the effects of the federal housing racism of the 1940s and 1950s is a parent of the “urban” ghettos we are still dealing with today – in case (heh) you don’t know, the federal agencies in charge of giving low-interest loans to ex-GIs and other people for home ownership put white families in the newly created suburbs, and put black families of the same economic level in urban housing with substandard facilities and access. IN THE NORTH.
I did not make the Holocaust reference to compare the black experience in the US (and elsewhere) in the last 400 years directly to the Jewish experience in Nazi Germany (and Russia, and Spain, and elsewhere in the last, oh, 500 years) – that would be the “oppression Olympics” and the events really aren’t comparable. However, your argument that blacks should “get over slavery” is a bogus one that Holocaust deniers and minimizers apply to the Holocaust, hence the comparison. Good to know you took the bait.
I mean no disrespect to the Jewish people, especially those in Europe and the US, but they were able to assimilate MUCH easier than African-Americans, in part by virtue of their community and historical role in economically important avenues (which are rooted in the prejudices of Medieval Europe, a discussion for another time), but also in part by skin color.
Judaism is a religion, sometimes tied to ethnicity due to intermarriage and segregation (i.e. Jews of a region marrying other Jews of the same region for generations). In the US, a majority of those of Jewish descent have historically been of European background.
African-Americans is an ethnicity that has been legally and illegally categorized by skin color, and has been (not exclusively) tied to slavery, and a history of segregation – for most of our history, even more recent immigrants with dark skin fell under the category of “colored” under the law, and everything that represented.
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 9:16 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bah – correction: The Voting Rights Act was passed under Johnson (props to the deceased still stand
, and renewed under Ford. Knew he was in the mix somewhere.
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 9:18 pm ¶
Meg wrote:
>bamaman83 wrote:
>Another slavery museum. Will blacks ever let it go…?
why don’t you go to the museum and see for yourself why they can’t “just get over it”. It’s also quite simplisitc to think the position of african americans is due to slavery and disregard all the other things as noted by lyonside’s post. It sure started with slavery but that’s not the only disadvantage they had to deal with and continue to deal with.
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 10:43 pm ¶
bamaman83 wrote:
Sure blacks had it tough well into the twentieth century. But Civil Rights movement ended decades ago, white racism has subsided. If blacks want to get ahead maybe they should work hard and take some responsibility instead of sitting around collecting welfare and blaming whitey for all their problems.
Posted 07 Jan 2007 at 11:56 pm ¶
kim wrote:
bamaman83:
If you notice, it is the New York Historical Society that is hosting the exhibit, and doing so in recognition of the American history that slavery is documented to be.
Was this post about protests and outrage over the exhibit? Was the article about protest and outrage?
You find protest and outrage over the historical facts of American slavery and its collateral damage and ever reaching implications inconvenient? uncomfortable?
No one is celebrating slavery and its entrenched place in this nation’s formation and ideologies and domestic practices. No one is shying away from further exploring and bringing to light that practice, in all its environs, in all its incarnations.
Closing your eyes to its place in American history would only paint your facility for speech about this nation’s history replete with ahistorical and revisionist ideology, and your understanding of that history – nil.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 12:04 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
And you really think “blame whitey” is the point of the exhibit?
>sitting around collecting welfare and blaming whitey for all their problems.
Yeah, it’s really obvious that you don’t KNOW (m)any black people. Turn off Stormfront AND MTV for once in your life.
You’re exactly the type of person who needs to go visit. And learn that EVERYONE is negatively affected by historical and modern day racism, not just the targeted group.But of course, you already made up your mind and won’t go.
Nice attempt to backtrack, though, and suddenly act like you know/care about the last 150 years.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 12:05 am ¶
kim wrote:
Re: First baby sweepstakes -
This is too easy.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 12:12 am ¶
Meg wrote:
bamaman83:
“If blacks want to get ahead maybe they should work hard and take some responsibility instead of sitting around collecting welfare and blaming whitey for all their problems. ”
I’m all for individual responsibility but at least part of the discussion you’re missing is that as hard as they work there are those who have been and are being denied oppurtunities for no other reason then the colour of their skin.
While my american history is not so great also consider that there are probably white families who could trace their family’s wealth back to a great-great-someone who used slaves to gain the foundations of that wealth which is passed down the generations. While they probably wouldn’t support slavery today, they continue to reap the benefits from use of a cheap (ie free) source of labour at a time when manual labour was a necessity. That is, the 1st generation gets established and has money, then subsequent generations don’t have to struggle to make ends meet & can earn more cos they’ve access to the right opportunities – money makes money as they say. This is an opportunity most blacks didn’t have and they are economically disadvantaged in a way most others haven’t been. They get left trying to play catch up and it’s not as simple as telling them to stop collecting welfare.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 12:39 am ¶
merq wrote:
“But Civil Rights movement ended decades ago, white racism has subsided.”
That had to be the best laugh I’ve had all weekend!
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 2:29 am ¶
Sewere wrote:
Lyonside, Merq, Kim and Meg… Do not feed the racist trolls… Why would you answer anyone who’s question starts with the premise that black folks are lazy and whining about racism??
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:49 am ¶
Meg wrote:
Sewere wrote:
Lyonside, Merq, Kim and Meg… Do not feed the racist trolls… Why would you answer anyone who’s question starts with the premise that black folks are lazy and whining about racism??
speaking for myself: on the off chance something might sink in and cos it seems wrong to leave such a crappy comment out there with no response.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 6:01 am ¶
Chris wrote:
bamaman83 has just proven the point of way exhibits about slavery are important and needed. It not like the history books used in schools talk about slavery in great detail, it is more of a footnote often portraying the Union (North) as the righteous ones in fighting against slavery, which is bull. There was a hand full of slave states, around 5, on the Union side and the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the South and not the North. The emancipation proclamation was more of a war tactic than anything else to try to break the South in a least three ways:
1. Breaking the South supply line. No slaves less supplies for the Southern armies.
2. To prompt fear in the South and hurt the moral of the Confederate armies. In some Southern states slaves out numbered the white population by a wide margin, imagine that slave population taking up arms to fight the Confederate armies. The North has already saw how seeing black union troops had shaken some Confederate troops.
3. Win support from the anti-slavery organizations in the North.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 9:00 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>Lyonside, Merq, Kim and Meg… Do not feed the racist trolls
To me a racist “troll” is someone posting nothing but insults, curse words, and other moronic things… at which point I post to call it to Carmen’s attention, and she has been very good at deleting such posts. Since the site is semi-automatic and not all posts are screened, I consider it a PSA.
But an out-and-out racist I will engage… again, not in the chance of changing their misinformed opinions, but because silence is too often read as acceptance, or at least being unable to respond, or, in this case, “lazy.”
And, as Meg said, to talk to the silent readers, not the vocal posters.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 10:46 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
ETA: Besides, it’s fun!
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 10:47 am ¶
kim wrote:
Sewere, et al:
It’s that dreaded show of support, again. To second Meg: maybe it defuses ( for the silent, attentive reader) the strength of the extreme argument as valid.
The out-and-out racist I won’t engage, because that person can not hear.
But this comment? I find that this type of comment is filled with a regurgitated venom not unique to the poster, and maybe not even examined to any real degree, and thereby perhaps not a bonafide conviction, but a ready made molotov.
Perhaps such posts reflect a taste for molotov stirred, not shaken, and then we shake them up, true. But when the whole damn house of lies comes tumbling down, while there is dust left on everyone, at least we can start anew, having placed a little grain of perspective/truth in their heads.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 1:45 pm ¶
Donna Darko wrote:
And, as Meg said, to talk to the silent readers, not the vocal posters.–Lyonside
When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do. — William Blake, English visionary and poet
Nah, it’s better to ignore trolls. They end up looking stupid.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 2:36 pm ¶
Donna Darko wrote:
Especially in places there are many quality posters.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 2:38 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:
Folks,
I see what you mean, saying nothing will breed an attitude of acceptance… And I feel you Lyonside, it ain’t about changing a mindset it’s about calling folks like BM on his/her/their “BULLSHIT”
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 2:41 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Donna: I think you and I differ on what we call a “troll,” though. A troll for me is not just someone who disagrees with a poster or even a site. It’s someone with NOTHING to say but vitriol, or someone who makes absolutely ridiculous comments for attention.
Do I find Bama’s comments ridiculous? Yup. But his comments are not new or unique, they crop up fairly often from those living in either the past or a box, and they deserve rebuttal. Therefore, not a troll, in my book, just a sadly mistaken in-duh-vidual (copyright Scott Adams (Dilbert)).
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 2:42 pm ¶
bamaman83 wrote:
Meg, etc: Blacks have plenty of opportunity today. They have their own colleges, their own scholarships, affirmative action and a whole lot of crap. Of course if white people tried to form an ‘NAAWP’ or a white scholarship, that would be “RACIST!” Whites are now being shortchanged to appease minorities, yet the blacks STILL can’t get their act together. Maybe it says something about race and brain size?
And waht about the poor white people? WHY should a rich black person benefit from scholarships, affirmative action, reparations etc. but not a poor white person? Racist?
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:10 pm ¶
Donna Darko wrote:
Troll or not, Lyonside?
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:11 pm ¶
Donna Darko wrote:
It’s about public school funding.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:12 pm ¶
Sewere wrote:
“Maybe it says something about race and brain size?’
Do you really believe that or are you sitting on your head and talking from your behind?
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:14 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bama isn’t a troll.
He’s just illiterate, and (mis)using the thread to push his own agenda.
At which case, we can just ignore him, I think.
Bama: A slavery exhibit has nothing to do with “affirmative action.” Choose another thread, not this one, ‘kay? *mwah* (ew, mudpeople cooties!)
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:35 pm ¶
bamaman83 wrote:
Thanks for proving my point…no wonder blacks can’t get ahead. They don’t care to refute my point just scream “racist”, “troll” etc.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:48 pm ¶
Meg wrote:
bamaman83: i was giving u benefit of the doubt and trying to engage in a dialogue – there’s plenty of things that confuse me that i’m happy to hear another point of view. Not to drift off the topic but as an eg: i actually don’t fully understand what happens with affirmative action (i’m not in america) and it seems like it’s a band-aid solution. But that’s besides the point of this thread. You’re subsequent comments show that you’re just spewing a certain type of talking point and the race and brain size comment was just ridiculous.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 4:59 pm ¶
Donna Darko wrote:
I’m Asian, not black.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 5:01 pm ¶
Chris wrote:
This is in response to bamaman83 latest post:
They have their own colleges:
Most historically black colleges are public universities now, at least in my state of NC, and they have become popular with whites who have figured out they can get more grant money by going to a majority black university. I think white enrollment at my local HBU is at 30% or so and it is increasing.
Their own scholarships:
I guess you are talking about the scholarships like the Negro college fund and other minority base scholarships. There will be never enough scholarships out their for Americans of African decent or other minorities population to go to college at the rate of the cost of tuition, board, books, etc. are going up.
Affirmative Action cuts many ways, it was written in such away that is helps minorities regardless of race. So, for example affirmative action can be used to help whites if they are in the minority, which is the case in couple of states where the Hispanic population is in the majority.
I think some whites have already created the NAAWP, I remember seeing a story about them 10 years or so ago. I could care less about the group because whites still hold the most powerful positions in the United States and the laws still benefits them the most not because of anything they did, but because that is who the system was setup to favor in the first place. It is not like all the founding fathers where talking about blacks and other non-whites when they created the bill of rights, if that was the case slavery would not have been practiced.
Affirmative Action and all the other programs are not perfect solutions and never where attended to be. They where created in the hope that the future generations would work toward creating better solutions instead of just keeping the same laws.
Your speculation on race and brain size is a racists statement. The group of people in the United States that are considered black is a diverse population each with different experiences and educational levels. Just having a college degree, now of days, does not guarantee you are job that a person can support themselves financially.
Why should a rich black person benefit from scholarships, etc.
Who says rich black people get scholarships in the first place. You assumed that just because they are black that they get scholarships no matter their economic status. As a whole scholarships and grants are drying up and most people that need money for college are either going into the armed forces or taking out student loans which puts them in a hole financially when they come out of college.
The thing is that everyone is paying for the mistakes of the previous generations in different ways no matter their race and everyone who is in the United States today are benefiting from slavery no matter their race. The United States would be much different place if slavery did not existed, but there is no point in playing the what if game. Slavery happen and the generations that came after it are dealing with the consequences of it whether they want to or not.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 6:38 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
As long as HBCUs use a variant of affirmative action to maintain a small minority of non-black students, I don’t see the problem with them, or why their very existence should enrage so many white racists. Many colleges and universities are still more than 90% white. There are other special ethnic colleges such as Hebrew Union College.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 7:05 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bama: you’ve been refuted. By myself and others. I think you’re either practicing selective reading, or your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Possibly both.
Everyone else: can we get this back on track and ignore Bama now?
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 8:06 pm ¶
Kyla wrote:
Not to mention scholarships for Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Polish Americans, etc. And legacy scholarships for the children of alumni, 90% of which go to white students.
And things like scholarships, colleges, etc. are geared toward African Americans and other minorities because white people are STILL, in 2006, disproportionately represented in these areas. If whites had let African Americans into colleges 100-150 years ago, when the children of slaves wanted to go in the first place, there would have been no need for HBCUs. If they’d done that and paid every freed slave the back wages for their work and the work of all their ancestors, I doubt the African American community would be struggling so much with poverty.
But white people had to have their ’separate but equal’ educations ’til the National Guard got sent in, and their share cropping, etc.
Seriously, affirmative action has helped more white women than any other minority out there.
Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 9:43 pm ¶