Racism special on CNN tonight
by Carmen Van Kerckhove
Just spotted this on TVNewser:
CNN is devoting tonight’s hour of Paula Zahn Now to “Skin-Deep: Racism in America.” Guests include Whoopi Goldberg and the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
The show “will examine the Michael Richards incident and its repercussions,” the press release says. Correspondent Keith Oppenheim “will profile the town of Vidor, Texas, reporting on racial tensions there.” And Zahn will talk “to multicultural ten-year-olds about racism and reports on the results at the end of the special.”
Also, check out the results of this survey on racism that was just released (thanks to Karen and Philip for the tip!). Basically, most Americans agree racism is a big problem, half say they know someone who’s racist, but almost no one thinks that they themselves are racist.
Update 10:10 PM: Wow. Ok, I have opinions aplenty, but I’m going to save them so I can do a rant on Monday’s episode of Addicted to Race. But please share your thoughts in the comments section, as some of you already have started to do.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Jay wrote:
given how ‘racism’ is associated with being a “bad person” it’s not surprising to see people not admitting to being a racist.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 8:14 pm ¶
Rob wrote:
I’m just going to watch and see if they actually include a decent amount of airtime for Asian Americans, Latinos, Arabs, and Native Americans or if it’s going to be the same old “black white” discussion.
I’m not holding my breath.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 8:52 pm ¶
ChrisChambers wrote:
You lost me when you listed Jesse and Rev. Al as go-to experts. Lawd…
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 9:14 pm ¶
Rob wrote:
Did I call it or what?
Not only was the show entirely based on black and white conflicts but the only two times when “Asian” was mentioned was when the seemingly white separatist said that blacks have committed racist acts by kicking Asians out of their neighborhoods in San Francisco. The other time was when they had whites and Asians take a “racism” test to see if they have a bias towards European Americans or Black Americans.
Therefore, this show just coupled Asians as a group that identify and participate as oppressors towards blacks.
What a half assed show. Latinos and others weren’t even mentioned at all.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 9:58 pm ¶
Vandia wrote:
Rob,
I agree with you. It is another sensationalistic take at the issue.I think it also has a political reason behind it. It probably was done to get people thinking about Obama and the upcoming presidential campaign.
I was also a bit disappointed to see Sharpton and Jackson as the only race experts. I was surprised(not pleasantly) to see Amren’s Jared Taylor( the white separatist) at the discussion though. Have any of you ever seen the site? It is one of the most hate filled sites and it accomplishes its purpose in a very sophisticated way. These people push the racist agendas in very subtle, gentle and almost seemingly harmless way. No more pointy hoods these days.
Again the show was just a rating-boosting dose of an otherwise much needed discussion.
The show would have been better, and infinitely more interesting if it had included people like Carmen and Jen(who do this every day).
Finally, I will give it one star- for the polling results.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 10:19 pm ¶
Pat wrote:
I’m black and I agree with I with Rob there should have been some coverage of other enthic groups not only blacks. Racism effects not just blacks, but every non-white or minority group in this country.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 10:27 pm ¶
HighJive wrote:
The program was almost depressing in its predictable presentation. The issues discussed have already been rehashed hundreds of times. It was reminiscent of Clinton’s town hall race discussions. Why can’t anyone get beyond scratching the surface?
Sharpton, Jackson and Dyson can hit their sound bites on cue because they’ve delivered the lines so many times already. On the other hand, it’s unfortunate that they must continue to repeat themselves year after year.
As for the lack of diverse representation, well, that’s a whole other issue. Latinos are too complex to cover in a 60-minute program, mostly because of all the immigration-related controversies. Like it or not, Asians have not yet cracked the 5 percent mark, so Paula Zahn is probably not gonna recognize that group as being victims of anything. For a TV program, it’s easiest to depict the literal and figurative extremes — Black and White. Not saying it’s the right thing to do. Just making observations.
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 11:05 pm ¶
Sweat Tabulous wrote:
Oh suck my b@lls@ck. STFU
Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 11:19 pm ¶
Rob wrote:
We haven’t cracked the 5% mark but yet, we’re constant targets in American media so we register on their radar screen, no? I never bought that argument. They know we’re there but they just haven’t or don’t want to acknowledge that other demographics also suffer from racism. After all, until whites acknowledge that something exists, it doesn’t. It’s the epitome of white supremacy.
This show even had Asians take the “racism test” in order to determine who’s more biased towards whites and blacks.
Posted 13 Dec 2006 at 12:51 am ¶
merq wrote:
Yawn.
It’s official, Racism has got the best publicist in Hollywood.
Posted 13 Dec 2006 at 1:14 am ¶
Rachel wrote:
I second Vandia….I can’t believe they had a white supremacist on as an expert.
I was also a big old man fest on the experts–no women of color, and Paula Rothenberg, who had one of the best comments of the night, was swiftly removed from the panel.
Posted 13 Dec 2006 at 8:22 pm ¶
Rob wrote:
Did anyone else happen to catch the followup shows?
Posted 18 Dec 2006 at 9:56 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
Pat said, “Racism effects not just blacks, but every non-white or minority group in this country.”
What the hell are you talking about Pat? Racism doesn’t affect white people? Al Sharpton isn’t a black racist? I have met some seething black racists in my day. And more and more are being made all the time by the misconceptions and outright lies they are fed on a daily basis by the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farakhan. The thing that bothers me the most about these shows is that they NEVER point the finger at the black community at all. They never force them to answer for the things they’ve done to disgust the white community. I see no answer to this problem at all. Maybe the country should be divided along racial lines. I’m sick of this one-sided discussion. The white community is always wrong and the black community are mere victims. Niether of which is true.
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 5:42 am ¶
Rob wrote:
While I agree that whites suffer prejudice, the reason why many blacks feel that they can’t be racist is because they don’t have the authority and power to affect someone else’s life.
For example, if a white man is prejudiced and has power, he can negatively influence a minority’s life through discrimination.
Since blacks don’t have power in this country, even if they’re prejudiced, they can’t negatively affect a white person’s lifestyle. What will whites face? A slur? Some dirty looks? Some hate speech?
If whites employ the same type of prejudice, not only can they shout slurs, give you dirty looks, and spew hate speech but they can also put you in internment camps (Asian Americans), enslave you (blacks), or systematically harass and detain you for being an illegal (Latino).
So, yes, whites suffer prejudice but not racism. They’re not the same.
On the other hand, I imagine the whole racism issue as the following picture. Picture the white community reading from a book called “Racial progress in the United States.” Picture the minority community reading a book called “400 years of white oppression.”
The white and minority communities need to swap their reading material. Minorities need to acknowledge, though slow, racial progress this country has seen. Whites need to acknowledge the racial poison that runs through this nation. From what I’ve seen, neighter party wants to read the other book because whites don’t want to hear about them doing anything wrong and minorities find it easier to blame others.
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 10:16 am ¶
Rob wrote:
To be honest, Bill, from all the civil discussions I’ve had in college regarding race relations, I’ve seen more concessions from minorities on what they’re doing wrong than I have seen from whites willing to acknowledge White Privilege or racism that exists to this day. It’s now become the de facto response from whites that just don’t want to talk about it.
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 10:25 am ¶
Bill wrote:
You’re wrong Rob…
A black person, or anybody for that matter, can be a racist. Even if they don’t have the power to affect others economically. If I attack you because of your race, that is a racist act. ANYBODY CAN DO IT. Don’t let yourself off the hook so easy. All it takes to be a racist is to believe that your race is better than someone elses. You don’t have to have the economic ability to act on it. Racism is a philosophy, not an economic policy.
Finally, let me dispel one other myth you’ve set forth. Caucasians have stopped talking about the issue of racism because it’s un-solvable. There is no satisfaction on the part of the minority community. We never recieve any credit for acknowledging th problem and taking steps to correct it. Al Sharpton and his crew point their fingers as if it was the year 1926 and not 2006. Basically what I’m saying is, we’ve given up on racial harmony because we know it can never happen. No matter what we do it will never have the desired effect. Maybe the first step in racial harmony is for the minority community to give us some praise for what we’ve done so far, and admit that part of the problem is them themselves. That would really put us on the road to loving each other. But I don’t see that happening so long as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are making such a good living off of the strife do you? Face it Rob, it’s a dead issue and it isn’t worth talking about anymore. Let’s just try to live in the same country without killing each other. That might be a more realistic goal, wouldn’t you say?
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 3:09 pm ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:
Bill,
I actually agree with you in part. There’s something fundamentally broken about the way we talk about race today, and that CNN special was a perfect example of that.
I talked at length about this show, and my views on the state of race dialogue on the latest episode of my podcast, Addicted to Race. You might be interested in having a listen:
http://www.addictedtorace.com/?p=112
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 3:23 pm ¶
Kim wrote:
>The thing that bothers me the most about these shows is that they NEVER point the finger at the black community at all. They never force them to answer for the things they’ve done to disgust the white community.
The white community is so easily disgusted, where does one start? Oh, I know…a Negro woman gave birth today to the first child born free in Virginia this morning….
You wish the country were divided along racial lines? I’m sure the side of the line you live on supports your wishes already.
No need for Santa to come down your chimney.
Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 10:39 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
Kim wrote, “I’m sure the side of the line you live on supports your wishes already. No need for Santa to come down your chimney.”
Sure Kim. That’s why we have lightwieghts like Paula Zahn fueling the fires of racial hatred. What do you actually think she accomplished with that show? Do you think whites are more or less turned off to your endless griping now? Quit blaming the world around you for your failures Kim. If you’re a failure it’s because Kim is a failure, not because Bill made her one. When the hell are you ever gonna learn that?
See where this conversation is going? Bill refuses to take responsibility for your life and YOU refuse to take responsibility for your life. It’s an endless circle Kim. So far you ain’t winning. Why don’t you grow up and accept responsibility for your own faults already? And while you’re at it, teach Al Sharpton to do the same thing. Till then I’ll be ignoring you like I always do…
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 11:53 am ¶
Kim wrote:
Nice to know you know who you are, and that you’re willing to get in the trenches and work for change in the world.
Good to know you’ll model the change you wish to see, even if you don’t get your fingernails dirty.
‘So far you ain’t winning.’ Our lives are more than just our own. This is the critical nugget that those who work toward keeping the system as it is, and those who seek to change it, intrinsically know.
As you know no details of my life i, what I do, or whether I am, or even consider myself to be, a failure, I would have to suppose you are speaking from some place inside of you that presupposes others feel as you do about yourself. Oh look, you don’t know who you are after all.
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 12:28 pm ¶
Cajetan wrote:
I love the discussions being organized by Paula Zahn about racism in America. Some of us who are foreigners are embarrased by what we see happening in America of the twenty first century. The extent of racism still taking place in America shows that racial justice in America is still a dream yet to come true, and so needs serious attention. It needs more serious dialogue which should involve the American government, church leaders and representatives of the different racial groups.
A new book “BEYOND THE COLOR OF SKIN :ENCOUNTERS WITH RELIGIONS AND RACIAL INJUSTICE IN AMERICA,” written by a Nigerian Catholic priest reveals and challenges racism as it is also taking place in American religions, especially Christianityand Judaism.
I will like the discussions to involve the fact that American churches have given full attention to abortion, stem-cell research, sexual abuse, and human cloning. All these are good and godly but why is that they have neglected civil rights and have failed to give attention to racism in American and among their congregations?
The effects of sexual abuse on the individual are the same with “racial abuse.” Why is it that those who claim to be sexaully abused even fifty years ago get more attention, sympathy, and compensations from the church and the government than those who have been racially abused and their desendants? Still some people do not want discussions on such injustice. We have a long way to go.
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 5:14 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
This is infantile…
Kim doesn’t want to have a “discussion” of the issue. Kim want’s to finger-point and blame. That’s easy isn’t it? Never having to take the blame for your own existence? Always blaming the amorphous “white people” for everything that’s wrong in life? It’s nice to have a scapegoat for everything you don’t like about the world isn’t it? Hey it worked for Hitler, so why not you? What’s next Kim? If it rains on Saturday is that my fault too? If your dog chokes on a chicken bone do you blame the evil “white people”? Can’t you see how absurd you are? Can’t you see how absurd we think you are? And can’t you see it’s your fault? Can’t you see that Louis Farakhan lives in a white nieghborhood? Why doesn’t Louis want to live around you Kim? Why?
Let me explain how it works…
If you’re good at what you do, NOBODY CARES WHAT COLOR YOU ARE. Don’t you think I would send my car to a black mechanic if he was the best in town? Don’t you think I would choose an Asian surgeon if he/she was the best in the business? Don’t you think I would use a Latino construction firm if they were the best? You’ve got to concentrate on being THE BEST at what you do Kim. That’s the only thing anybody cares about. That’s how Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder did it, so why not you? Or maybe you want an exception to be made for your lack of talent based on your skin color? Is that fair Kim? Would you like to have a surgeon work on you who was selected, not because they were the best, but because someone felt they deserved a break? That’s what you want isn’t it Kim? You want something you haven’t earned, something you don’t deserve to have, correct? Should the New York Nets let me play forward just because they don’t have enough white people on the team? Or should I have to earn my way onto the team? And if I’m not good enough to make it, should I sit back and gripe about racism? Should I say “It’s because I’m white.”? Think about it Kim. Think about all these things. You won’t hear this from Al Sharpton or Paula Zahn. They don’t have the guts to tell you these things. They don’t think you can handle it. But I do Kim. I have more respect for you than that. I know you know what I’m saying is true. I know you don’t hate me for something I haven’t done. You’re smarter than that, even if Paula Zahn isn’t.
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 10:00 pm ¶
Kim wrote:
Carmen,
that you found anything to agree on with someone who would so obviously close the door on this particular tirade (he seems to be speaking to himself in a conversation that he never had with me) and rail against people with whom you ethnically/culturally/racially identify is…alarming.
Rob at least seeks to maintain a line of one-sided (lately cogent and less furious) speech, and keep it focused on something discernable.
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 10:40 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
You’re right… Carmen should never agree with anyone outside of her ethnicity/culture/race. It might result in enlightenment.
So Kim, are you gonna post any bikini pics of yourself or not?
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 10:45 pm ¶
Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:
All right folks, let’s keep it civil please.
Kim, I should have been more specific. What I agree with Bill about is that we still talk about race like we’re living in a long-gone decade. I would say the 1950s though, as opposed to Bill’s allusion to the 1920s.
And that’s where my agreement with him ends.
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 11:28 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
So I guess this means no bikini pics then…
It’s because I’m white isn’t it?
Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 11:50 pm ¶
merq wrote:
Bill sounds like he’s 3 posts away from full-on, Craigslist-style racist hate speech… and I, for one, welcome it! I hate when wolves try to wear wool.
Even more interesting was Billy-Bob’s choice of professions in his hypothetical “really, we aren’t racist at all” statement.
Blacks -> mechanics
Asians -> doctors
Latinos -> construction workers
Nice one, Bill. Seriously, I wonder where exactly one finds people with your crippling idiocy.
Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 12:09 am ¶
Bill wrote:
Well now, see that? “Merq” here has just given you all a prime example of what I’ve been talking about… NEUROSIS.
I defy you to find one racist comment in anything I’ve said. And yet “Merq The Mental Midget” sees fit to say that I have. Merq seems to be looking for Nazi’s under the bed again. See this is what I’ve been saying all along. In the minority community, one needn’t have any proof of actual racism, all they need is the ACCUSATION of racism, and that’s enough to satisfy the mass neurosis of the great non-caucasian masses yearning to blame free. I’m tellin’ ya, this is very similar to what the radical militant Islamics are doing in the middle east. First they dehumanize us by referring to us as “The Great Satan”. Then they blame “The Great Satan” for every last thing that’s wrong with their society/world. Can’t you see that you’re resorting to the same exact tactics and philsophies as these religious psychotics? You’re just a step away from tatooing us with numbers and sending us to the gas chamber. Can’t you see that? Can’t you see that you’re walking the road of the fascist? Rather than being oppressed, your neurosis is leading you to be the oppressor. Can’t you see that? Can’t you see where this road will end? Can’t you see that you’ve been lied to? Won’t you at least try and understand that before it’s too late? When it’s your turn to rule, will you do the same as the ones who ruled before you? The writing is on the wall, your day will certainly come, but will you be any better than the men with robes and the burning crosses? Right now, it’s not looking like it…
Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 1:19 am ¶
merq wrote:
Forgive me, Bill. I can only blame myself for trying to engage someone so obviously beneath me.
I love how you’ve avoided addressing the “racialized professions” argument by waving the flag and retelling the story with yourself as victim.
Yawn, my simple-minded friend. If I honestly thought, from your writing, that you were an intelligent adult, I would seriously try to point out the numerous problematic statements you’ve made.
But I’m willing to bet you’re nothing more than a teenager, so forget I said anything.
Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 2:21 am ¶
Bill wrote:
What the hell is a “racialized profession”?
I see, there must be certain professions that a black, Asian, or latino person may never consider because the “racialized labor board” has decided that they are “racialized professions”. Sounds dumb but, what the hell, let’s go with it! I’ll call my buddy Derrick in the next town and tell him to shut his repair shop down (he’s black y’know). It’s gonna suck for him though, he’s had that repair shop for over 20years. Did I mention that Derrick has a nicer house than me? And that he’s probably got 10 times the money I’ve got? And I’m not a poor man… And I better call Alberto Lopez and tell him not to put that addition on my house next spring. Even though he did the driveway for me last year, I don’t wanna be accused of “racializing” him. I’ll get a white guy I guess…
And if it helps Merq, I’m over 40 years old. Several years past it actually. Guess that shoots me down so far as a date with Carmen is concerned huh? BTW, Carmen and her friend are gonna have to find something else to do. The board has just decided to “racialize” their profession. Oh well, there’s always Med school I guess huh?
Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 8:34 am ¶
Bill wrote:
Oh look, I found this holiday gift for you guys. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11DyUMgvz0Y&mode=related&search=
Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:07 pm ¶
Thomas wrote:
When Blacks stop acting like violent savages then maybe there will be an end to racism against them ! As a White person I am offended by their gutter language such as motherfucker , and refering to White people as honkies 1
Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 9:43 pm ¶
blowme wrote:
Some of you claim to be surprised that a “white supremacist” was included on the show as a race expert, but don’t seem to mind at all that Jesse and Al are being portrayed in the same light.
1. I agree there are more races than just black and white, and a discussion on racism in America should be more inclusive.
2. Black and minority racists create white racists. If a black person or thug attacks me for being white, it’a profiling. Black public figures like Sharpton and Jackson, and many hip-hop artists and fans and blackentertainers do nothing but make more enemies with that arrogant “we can’t be racist” one-sided crap. If more public black figures both ATTACKED this and talked about minority issues, more white people might listen. Arrogance is not thekey to anything.
And, Michael Richards was an actor responding to some hecklers, who for all I know, since we didn’t get the whole story, said some racist crap first. A college professor whose job is to teach our youth says to exterminate the white race, and it gets practically no coverage. Ice Cube went that far on a consistent basis, and he’s doing Hollywood movies. Noone cares.
Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:28 pm ¶
merq wrote:
“How to Suppress Discussions of Racism”, Tip 5b:
“Maybe it’s racist, but what about reverse racism?”
http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/607897.html
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 12:16 am ¶
blowme wrote:
This isn’t directly related to anyone else here’s posts, but one last thing. Class is a bigger issue than race. Poor people come in all colors. You can’t turn every poverty issue into a black issue. The race card is overplayed, nowadays. Believe it or not, I’m actually somewhat for affirmative action in school. But not race based, INCOME based.
“Racial professions” is bullshit. More black people just happen to be disproportionately poor, and don’t have access to decent education. Not hiring a less educated individual is not “racist”, but practical. The thing is making sure everyone has that access to education.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 2:11 am ¶
lurker wrote:
“More black people just happen to be disproportionately poor, and don’t have access to decent education. Not hiring a less educated individual is not “racist”, but practical.”
Wow! How insightful. I guess that’s all there is to the debate. THank you, angry white guy. Your views are truly refreshing.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 3:19 am ¶
blowme wrote:
Instead of being sarcastic, why not tell me why the rest of what I said is wrong. About how every class issue has to be a racial one, like black people are the ONLY ones in the universe who know what poverty is like because of the “evil white man”. Never mind, that some of us are dirt poor, and worse off than some black people. It’s bullshit. Class, not race.
I don’t care if you find me insightful. I know at least a few people who aren’t white (one who isn’t black, either) who completely agree.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 9:36 am ¶
merq wrote:
“How to Suppress Discussions of Racism”, Tip 4a:
“Why are you complaining about racism instead of sexism/homophobia/ageism/classism/genocide/world hunger?”
4c. “My friend is [a member of an oppressed group] and he/she is not offended.”
http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/607897.html
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 9:50 am ¶
merq wrote:
Oh yeah, and getting back to Bill…
Dude, you’re really past puberty? Seriously?? I wouldn’t so proudly declare that if I were you, considering the level of thinking you’ve shown yourself to operate on.
And yeah, seeing as I must explain everything s l o w l y to you, I guess I’m not the right person to help you out here… I’m not that patient. But gee, you sure shut me up with your list of minority acquaintances who fit the bill. What was I thinking, I guess all the black and Latino people I know in medicine, law, advertising, etc must just be in my imagination… and the East Asian construction workers, personal trainers, and models I know are really just doctors in disguise, eh?
Damn, it must suck to see life through your eyes.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:01 am ¶
blowme wrote:
“In fact, I have more in common with most working and middle-class white people than I do with most rich black and Latino people. As much as racism bleeds America, we need to understand that classism is the real issue. Many of us are in the same boat and it’s sinking, while these bougie Mother-Fuckers ride on a luxury liner, and as long as we keep fighting over kicking people out of the little boat we’re all in, we’re gonna miss an opportunity to gain a better standard of living as a whole.”
~Immortal Technique
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:21 am ¶
Rob wrote:
So, what you’re saying is that rich minorities can’t be the victims of racism?
What about minorities that are middle income and constantly get denied loans and mortgages? Or that housing realtors steer minorities away from white neighborhoods?
What about legacy seats in college applicants that are always white that cut into the amount of Asian Americans that earned grades to get into that school? What about middle income minority families that still have less access to health insurance and medical services?
They’re rich but they’re still being discriminated against based on their ethnicity and skin color. I could go on for days. While your argument that oppression is based more on class rather than race has merit, it’s too simplistic.
I used this example:
On the other hand, I imagine the whole racism issue as the following picture. Picture the white community reading from a book called “Racial progress in the United States.” Picture the minority community reading a book called “400 years of white oppression.”
The white and minority communities need to swap their reading material. Minorities need to acknowledge, though slow, racial progress this country has seen. Whites need to acknowledge the racial poison that runs through this nation. From what I’ve seen, neither party wants to read the other book because whites don’t want to hear about them doing anything wrong and minorities find it easier to blame others.
Bill might have said it best. Whites don’t want any blame and simply tell minorities to “pull themselves up your bootstrapes” and if you ignore racism, it’ll go away.
To everyone that actually experiences racism, this is laughable but he refuses to sway from this fact.
Don’t tell minorities what to do. We will decide what’s best for us, not you. If you refuse to compromise and meet us halfway, you can go to hell. If you’re willing to acknowledge that there is still blatant institutionalized and covert racism, then we can start talking.
Has there been progress in this country? Yes. However, it hasn’t been fixed 100% and thus, the complaints.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:55 pm ¶
lurker wrote:
“Instead of being sarcastic, why not tell me why the rest of what I said is wrong. About how every class issue has to be a racial one, like black people are the ONLY ones in the universe who know what poverty is like because of the “evil white man”. Never mind, that some of us are dirt poor, and worse off than some black people. It’s bullshit. Class, not race.
I don’t care if you find me insightful. I know at least a few people who aren’t white (one who isn’t black, either) who completely agree. ”
Really? If they’re just as informed as you, I wouldn’t be surprised.
There are entire books dedicated to this issue. You think you can present a convincing argument in a few short paragraphs.
God, just read the post above me.
Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 11:55 pm ¶
blowme wrote:
Look, I’m not saying that discrimination doesn’t still go on. Just that it’s not anywhere near as often as some people make out. If liberals get one case of it, they overblow it to make it look like it’s a common thing. |You see more and more minorities going to college, living practically everywhere.
I recognize things like how the black ghettos originally formed from the seeds of housing and job discrimination, and I also recognize things like racial profiling by corrupt police departments and other institutions. I work around an area known for racist white pride groups. I also recognize that the top people profitting from the drugs and arms that corrupt the ghettoes are rich white men, and that rich white men own most of the media, and are largely to blame for pushing the negative images that many black youth emulate, nowadays. All of this still doesn’t change my opinion that NOW, many instances people fly the race card for are actually more class based. I’m done here. This is my opinion. Call it whatever you want.
Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 1:12 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
When are you people going to accept what I said before? THIS PROBLEM IS UNSOLVABLE.
We are NOT going to solve this problem in this little forum. We’re not going to solve it on a national level either. We are NOT going to solve it PERIOD.
We cannot live together, and we don’t want to live together. We do not like each other for some very obvious and valid reasons. I think my idea of splitting the country up based on race may be the only solution.
This is all I know… I can live without Snoop Dogg, but the real question is… Can Snoop Dogg live without me? I’m sure that if the country got divided up the white folks would be completely unaffected by it. Life for them would go on as it always has. The systems would continue unaffected. Can we say the same for say, the ex-afro americans? Would they be able to carry on an orderly society without the influence of whites? I’m thinking not. Matter of fact, the more you think about it you’ll realize that you need us a hell of a lot more than we need you. If this country was ever divided up along racial lines, white society would continue as orderly as it ever was, while black society would be nothing more than a military dictatorship. Much like existed in Uganda under Idi Amin. My advice to the minority community is to quit your griping or may just get what you’re asking for. The future you are making for yourselves is much grimmer than you can ever imagine. And as the wise man said, “Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it…”.
Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 11:13 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bill: OMG
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 1:30 am ¶
lurker wrote:
hehe. He’s an original one, isn’t he?
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 1:32 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Cut off - lets try again.
—-
Bill: OMG. are you actually saying that “white” people would throw out ethnic minorities? You know, I think someone else had that same idea… he liked to paint, had a little teeny mustache… And there were a lot of people “griping” right before their futures got “grimmer than you can even imagine.”
But, to quote Eddie Izzard (god I love that man): He ended up in a ditch covered in petrol on FIRE. Because he was a mass-murdering f-head.
Your threatening tone does not intimidate, but makes me feel sorry for how scared and tiny you must be IRL.
You really see the US as white and black, don’t you? And all the blacks should be thankful for the 200 years of really bad behavior, lest it get WORSE? Too funny…
What’s interesting is that in the world I live in, we ARE all living together, some in the same schools and neighborhoods, some *gasp* in the same house, some *whispers* in the same bed. SHOCKING. But damn true.
That is what I wish for.. and guess what? I’m getting it, every single day.
Go back to your Michigan Militia, won’t you, and prepare for that apocalypse… I will go back to my multiethnic neighborhood and multiethnic/racial family and live, love, and learn from difference. What does not kill me makes me stronger. Your commentary? Not even a flea bite.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 1:33 am ¶
Bill wrote:
Yawn…
Yeah, I can tell you’re “tired” of a few things Lyonside. Lemme tellya what I’m tired of… I’m tired of the Caucasian people being referred to as “the problem” by every last minority group on earth. Certain facts have to be faced. The first, and most basic one is; We are not your problem. We are best and only hope. Left to your own devices, you would simply turn the entire country into one great big Watts or south Bronx. The rampant crime, the drive-by shootings, the gang-banging… sound familiar? I can understand where you’re coming from though, you hate the fact that you can’t exist without me, yet you refuse to admit the fact that you can’t exist without me. Starting to get the picture? You’re chasing your tail and getting nowhere. You hate the very thing that can save you.
You’re not being kept down by the white man, you’re being kept down by yourselves, and your street culture, and your traditions, and your superstitions, and sheer logic itself.
P.S.) The Roman Empire kept the entire known world in slavery for over 2000 years, and all those people got over it and went on with their lives. Why the hell can’t you?
Love,
Billy
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 7:20 am ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:
Wow! This Bill character is a lunatic. Reminds me of a white Al Sharpton.
Bill, your hate is too focused on Blacks, and I’m feeling left out. What about Asians?
The first few posts talked about how the race issue in America is too focused on black and white relations. Thus, the same tired arguments get repeated over and over, and nothing is ever solved.
An angry black person will inevitably blame white people for everything.
And an angry white guy (he’s had enough, watch out!) who thinks racial discrimination ended in 1865 and has no effect on society today, starts his tired rant.
There’s so much to quote! which one should I pick. Alright, this seems pretty dumb.
“A black person, or anybody for that matter, can be a racist. Even if they don’t have the power to affect others economically. If I attack you because of your race, that is a racist act…Racism is a philosophy, not an economic policy.” - Billy
You were replying to Rob, who stated that racist people with power have more impact on society and on those they are racist against. Meaning… there are more white people in power, and if they happen to dislike minorities and favor whites, less and less minorities will be in power, and more and more whites will be in power, and yes, this goes on. A group of poor people doesn’t magically pull themselves out of poverty. You’ve completely ignored this simple fact in your incoherent rants. And please, no stupid anecdotes about a hispanic acquaintance who came from nothing and is richer than you.
Racism is a philosophy, but it can also be a part of economic policies. Use your head, boy. Or maybe you haven’t heard of redlining which went on till the late seventies, or slavery, which you’ve mentioned, but you were obviously unable to connect the dots. Oh, how about this one. affirmative action; that is, according to your little predicable mind.
“I’m sure that if the country got divided up the white folks would be completely unaffected by it. Life for them would go on as it always has.”
Fine, you and a few million boys named Cletus can have South Central LA.
P.S. Snoop Dog CAN live without you. Was that rhetorical? Are you going to ask more rhetorical (and quite creepy) questions and pass them off as sound arguments?
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 9:26 am ¶
S wrote:
“Love, Bill” Love? Ah, man, there are some really good comedians on this site! That was funny. Had to chuckle on that one!
Lyonside, looks like you have an online lover! LOL!
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 9:38 am ¶
Bill wrote:
“A group of poor people doesn’t magically pull themselves out of poverty. You’ve completely ignored this simple fact in your incoherent rants.” (fgs_sfdg)
They dont? What did the Irish do? What did the Italians do? You don’t think these groups were discriminated against when they arrived in America? Better check your history again… See I’m glad you brought this up ‘cuz I believe you’ve sunk your own boat with this one. Why is it that every ethnic group in this country has somehow managed to rise above all the obstacles EXCEPT for the groups you’ve named? How come the Irish and the Italians can do it but the Africans can’t? I guess the answer is… some Africans HAVE, but not you, or any of your other friends who are waiting for a free handout. It’s a Welfare mentality that you do not appear to be able to shake. Fortunately I have the solution for you. You’re gonna have to put your ear up close to the screen for this one. Ready? Okay…
THE WORLD DOESN’T OWE YOU A FUCKIN’ THING!
Feel better now? Sooner or later somebody was gonna have to tell you that. I’m glad you heard if from a friend first cuz’ otherwise it might’ve been too traumatic. Lemme ask you, do you think that Famous Amos sat around waiting for the “Racism Police” to hand him the means necessary to start his own cookie business? Hell no! Everybody he knew told him it was a bad idea. That the timing wasn’t right. That he couldn’t make it because he was black. A whole list of downer reasons why he was going to fail. But he didn’t fail did he? Did the magic evil white people stop him? No! Did the Korean grocery store owners stop him? No! Did the government step in and shut him down for trying to succeed as a black man? No! Starting to see a pattern here? Even YOU should be able to figure it out, no? Okay I’ll spell it out for you…
If you sit around waiting for somebody else to approve your dreams you’re going to have a LONG WAIT! If you’re going to listen to people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson when they tell you you can’t make it because of “discrimination” YOU’RE NEVER GONNA MAKE IT! The day you decide to succeed AGAINST THE ODDS is the day you’re probably gonna begin to be successful. The minority community has nothing but a lot of negative, downer voices to listen to. It’s in thier entertainment, in their politics, it’s everywhere. It’s up to you if you wanna listen to it or not. If you’re good at what you do nobody can stop you from achieving success. But if you decide to listen to those negative voices it’s gonna be garbage-in-garbage-out for the rest of your life. Ask yourself this question… What skill does Al Sharpton have? Is he a great scientist? Is he an electrician? Is he a chemist? A computer engineer? A beautician? An accountant? A chef? NO! Al Sharton is a NOBODY. Al Sharpton has but one skill in life, to profit from the racial strife he helps to create and perpetuate. How can you possibly listen to the advice of a person with no marketable skills and expect them to lead you to success? The man is a dimwit and a loser. If THIS is all the black community has to listen to then it’s no wonder they feel hopeless. You’ve got to learn to turn off those negative voices in the background that echo “No hope… No hope… No hope… No hope…
Look at that, a white man just gave you the best advice you’ve ever gotten in your life. No extra charge for the reality…
You friend,
Billy
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 12:07 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>Lyonside, looks like you have an online lover!
Oh, S, that’s just because Bill is under the mistaken impression that I’m some Jezebel who should be grateful that I’m allowed to live in “his” nation, instead of facing eviction “or worse”. *snicker*
And what makes his rants even funnier to me is that I’m a biracial expecting mom married to a puerto rican. Any wonder why I can’t see the world in black/white when I’m too busy living it in (pardon the expression) color?
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 12:14 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bill: for the record, I don’t think anyone on this list really listens to Sharpton. Neither does anyone I know in the African-American community. But you, evidently, care a lot about him. Probably because he’s a self-made easy target that doesnt’ force you to live in, I dunno, reality?
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 12:16 pm ¶
Billy wrote:
“And what makes his rants even funnier to me is that I’m a biracial expecting mom married to a puerto rican (for now). - Lyonside
Ha! I guess that makes you first on the list for dual-citizenship.
There are 3 major representatives of the Afro-American community. They are, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farakhan. These are the men who recieve the most media coverage and have the largest following in the AA community. Your attempts to deny that are laughable. Like it or not, these ARE your representatives, and they are the biggest race baiters on the American political scene.
P.S.) When are you going to address the Duke Rape Case? Or doesn’t that fit with your closeminded neurotic view of the world?
xoxoxo,
Billy
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 3:13 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Bill(y?): You’re an idiot if you don’t know how real citizenship works in this country.
And again w/ the fixation on a few people. Who mentioned any of the “leaders” you mention? Not me… Do you know who “represents” me? My elected congresspeople (there’s that pesky citizenship thing again). My township representatives.
I represent myself at the polls, and when I donate my time, talent, and cash to causes I believe in. I represented my heritage when I check “all that apply” on a census form, and when I register my blood for the National Bone Marrow registry, in the hopes that my diversity may help someone else in need down the line. I represent myself and my family in my daily life, on and off line.
Laughable? The only one laughing is all of us at one of you.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 5:26 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Oh, and nice (mis)quote: look up literacy while you look up citizenship, won’t you? I didn’t say “(for now).”
Do you really have nothing more to say, so you’re trying to denegrate a total stranger’s marriage? Wow - whatever helps you sleep at night. And no, we shouldn’t discuss the Duke rape case on this thread because it’s not the topic. More proof you’ve run out of (erroneous) claims to make, I guess.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 5:31 pm ¶
merq wrote:
I LOVE this guy! Comedic gold!
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 6:37 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
Hey look y’all! It’s Lyonside’s new man! (Sorry generic Puerto Rican baby daddy, but thems the breaks…)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061229/sp_afp/usjusticecrimebox_061229194054
Personally, I think he would make a good first dictator for your newly founded fascist republic. You could even fashion your flag after his facial tattoo.
Yep, the future looks bright…
Billy
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 7:36 pm ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:
“They dont? What did the Irish do? What did the Italians do? You don’t think these groups were discriminated against when they arrived in America? Better check your history again… See I’m glad you brought this up ‘cuz I believe you’ve sunk your own boat with this one. Why is it that every ethnic group in this country has somehow managed to rise above all the obstacles EXCEPT for the groups you’ve named? How come the Irish and the Italians can do it but the Africans can’t? I guess the answer is… some Africans HAVE, but not you, or any of your other friends who are waiting for a free handout.”
Thanks, Bill. And very original too. This same crap was uttered in the movie “the Departed,” and countless idiots on imdb actually took it as gospel. You’re not enlightening anyone.
No, the irish and italians didn’t magically pull themselves out of poverty. They worked for it. But the length and magnititude of discrimination they faced were nowhere close to what blacks faced. Why? Mostly because they’re white. There were about 16 or 17 presidents of Irish decent in US history. You think a qualified black candidate would ever win? And there’s no comparison when we’re talking about current discrimination against blacks. Housing value doesn’t go down when a bunch of people of irish descent move into the neighborhood.
Billy. When you bring up these redundant arguments, when you compare slavery in the Roman empire and black on black slavery to slavery in the US, or discrimination of other minorities to that of blacks, or make whatever other comparisons to which hundreds of threads have been dedicated on Stormfront, just go pick up a few books, because these arguments are easily disputed. You’ve apparently read history books, but your interpretation of the facts in those books are warped.
Here are some new ideas for your next post. Slightly off topic, but nevertheless stimulating to your feeble mind:
Why is there a BET and not a White Entertainmnet Network?
Why can black people proclaim black pride and whites can’t proclaim white pride without being racist?
These will surely blow our minds.
And don’t address me like I’m black. I’m not.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 10:18 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Yup, and the ad hominems continue… can’t wait til Carmen gets back… I suspect she’ll be laughing hysterically as she bans quite a few trolls around here.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 11:06 pm ¶
Bill wrote:
“No, the irish and italians didn’t magically pull themselves out of poverty. They worked for it. But the length and magnititude of discrimination they faced were nowhere close to what blacks faced. Why? Mostly because they’re white.” (Fgs_ sfdg_ 123_Subsection B, Paragraph J, Addendum 5)
.
.
.
Uh… if that isn’t a page from the book of Al Sharpton-isms I don’t know what is. And your contention that American slavery was actually WORSE than ancient Roman slavery displays a severe lack of understanding of world history. First, if this was ancient Rome you would still have at least another 1000 years of slavery to go before could even THINK about posting to this forum. Secondly, no matter how bad the period of American slavery was, it wasn’t a shadow of what happened under the Roman empire. Or even the Egypian empire for that matter, which lasted nearly 3500 years. What, do you think those pyramids got built by themselves? Or that sphinx thing, did the pharoah just fold his arms and blink? That took SLAVES baby, and lots of ‘em! How do you think the Jews felt? First they were enslaved by the Egyptians, and THEN they were enslaved by the Romans. Ptuh! 200 years… a very short time in the history of world slavery. Not to say that it’s right, but just to put it in perspective.
And as far as the atrocities go? Let’s just say that the Romans actually built STADIUMS to torture their slaves and prisoners. What do you think it felt like to be thrown into an open stadium with hungry lions who hadn’t been fed in a week, knowing that your death was for nothing but the lurid entertainment of the crowd? THAT’S OPPRESSION MY FRIEND! You don’t know what the hell real oppression is, you’ve been fed so many lies. And all those gladiators? All slaves… To fight till you die at the whim of the emperor. Think about it…
You happen to live in a country where the slavemasters have seen the error of their ways. This is something to be grateful for, because it didn’t have to work out that way you know. We could still have slavery today if not for the humanistic voices in the white community. Those police could’ve have opened fire back in the 1960’s you know, they could have perpetuated slavery if the public had wanted it. You’ve got to know that right? You stand here today as a free man because the public saw the errors of the past and decided to correct it. That is not a thing to be taken lightly, because the Romans did no such thing, niether did the Egyptians. The only reason slavery ceased in the Roman empire was because the Roman empire ceased to exist. They didn’t have some great change of heart. They didn’t see the error of slavery. They kept it to the very end of their rule. Now… are you really trying to compare our situation to that? If you are you should get your head checked out…
Now put your damned crying towel away and go earn your success rather than expecting it to handed to you. Just like the Irish, the Italians, and everybody else has done.
Bill
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 11:11 pm ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:
You’ve never actually disputed my argument that the Irish experience and black experience were different, and that the black experience was a lot more difficult.
Notice I never compared the magnitude and length of roman slavery to slavery of blacks, only stated that they’re incomparable. You were the one who compared them, without considering the time and social backdrop of each event. To you, one was much more savage than the other (so was everything back then), thus blacks had it easy and should get over it.
Unless I’m mistaken, could you find a quote of mine where I compared the roman empire to US slavery times?
By the way, the main point of my last argument still stands, that is, discrimination against blacks was a lot worse than discrimination against italians and the irish, then and now. And skin color has much to do with it.
Lol. And yes, I’m grateful for the year 2007. Ancient Rome and Ancient Egypt both sucked.
God, you sucked me in. Bastard. I’m cancelling my imdb acct now, can’t take these internet arguments.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 11:33 pm ¶
merq wrote:
Wow, fgs_sfdg. You actually have an IMDB account? How do you manage on there? I stopped going there (and CraigsList Rants & Raves) when I swore off brain-rotting masochism for good.
Honestly, I don’t know why you guys are even entertaining this loser’s ramblings. You’re neither going to change his mind, nor get him to stop talking absolute nonsense. No matter how intelligent an argument you present, he’s either going to hit the Rewind button or he’ll post more idiotic (and juvenile… damn!!!) attacks, not unlike the Mike Tyson “babydaddy” gem upthread.
For such is the nature of the RaceTroll.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 11:43 pm ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:
Merq,
Yeah, I get sucked into these things, and just can’t pull myself away. Plus, I get enjoyment from participating in immature fueds. It’s sick.
Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 11:54 pm ¶
kim wrote:
Merq-
>No matter how intelligent an argument you present, he’s either going to hit the Rewind button or he’ll post more idiotic…
So, you were just exercising your right to exercise this past week in your little fest with u-no-hoo?
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 12:21 am ¶
merq wrote:
Kim,
Oh, not at all. You’ll notice the one thing I didn’t do with her was actually discuss the issue. I have no problem with folks ripping on Wilhelmina over there.
I just wince when I suspect they’re actually tryinig to reason with him.
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 1:53 am ¶
Bill wrote:
Kim baby, you’re back! Here hold my cape…
.
.
Fgs_sfdg (whatever that means), lemme ask you one question and then I’ll leave you alone (till my next post) okay?
Why didn’t the Romans or the Egyptians set their slaves free? Why didn’t they pass any laws to free them? How come they didn’t fight any wars over slavery (see the civil war)? Why didn’t they set up any affirmative action programs? Shouldn’t the Jews, and every other culture who was affected by ancient slavery, demand that the Egyptians and the Romans pay them back? Shouldn’t they at least ask for a couple of pyramids or an ancient Roman highway for their trouble? Dammit, I know I would!
But so far niether the Romans nor the Egyptians have given back one red cent. Hell, they haven’t even offered a lousy free pizza or anything! You’de think they could at least give ya the left hand of KUFU or somethin’… NOTHIN’! Not a thing! Not even a handful of dust for all that slavery. I know what I would do, I’d picket in front of every last freakin’ pizzeria in America till I got my slavery back-pay! And I wouldn’t let ‘em give me one of those little one-quart bottles of soda either, I’d at least hold out for one of the really big suckers (and it better be Coca-Cola too and not some off-brand Fresca or diet orange or somethin’ like that).
Y’know, when you look at it in a certain historical perspective, maybe we haven’t gotten such a bad shake after all. Maybe the evil Caucasians ain’t so evil as the man says. Maybe they saw the light, and started walking towards it, rather than staying where they were. Maybe the Grinch who stole Christmas really did find his heart at the end of the story. I like it when stories turn out that way, don’t you?
Bill
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 5:09 am ¶
fgs_sfdg wrote:
“Fgs_sfdg (whatever that means), lemme ask you one question and then I’ll leave you alone (till my next post) okay?”
The handle is meaningless. It’s from my alternative email address fgs_sfdg@yahoo.com that I signed up for a few years back. I was in a rush registering for a porn site membership and didn’t want to use my main email address.
ANyway, the same US insitution that allowed slavery exists today. The effects of slavery and discrimination (past and present) is contained in the US and can be identified.
What you rambled on about happened 2000 years ago. Victims and descendents have been dispersed. Effects have been negated/blurred by other major historical events. Different institutions have been established. And they didn’t have that “all men are created equal” ideal back then, so no need to be humane and end slavery.
DON”T EVER LEAVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh, and do you wear a hat with a propeller on top. ahhh, I’m gonna miss you after you’re banned. Where am I gonna find another angry white guy who shares your views in this country?
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 6:25 am ¶
Billy wrote:
Angry? Dude I’m not angry. I’m merely laughing at your mock persecution that’s all. You should win a daytime emmy for that. Here, take this one from “Regis and Kelly”, they suck anyway…
And now you wanna ban me? You wanna ban the only voice of reason on this forum? Ban one of the greatest minds in the entire racialized world? Ban the guy who offered pizza to the Jews for the Roman slavery thing? Okay screw it! I’ll take my coupons back and leave! Gimme back that daytime Emmy you ingrate! Now where was I… OH YEAH! Ban the only man with a flashlight on this dark road? Ban the only person who knows that Lyonside should marry Mike Tyson? PTUH! Go ahead… Go ahead and ban me. But I’ll still be here. This message won’t die because you’ve killed it. It’ll come back like… like… like a really mean 3-legged dog, to bite your ass! You’ll see!
Oh and gimme back that daytime Emmy now you creep…
Bill
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 10:17 am ¶
blowme wrote:
Calling Al Sharpton:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732373/posts
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_4744807
*Holds breathe waiting for this to be reported.*
Posted 02 Jan 2007 at 4:50 pm ¶
Billy wrote:
Gee it got quite in here all of a sudden.
Lyonside?
Guy with the meaningless “sfdg123…” name?
Pat?
Kim?
Robbie?
Merq?
Have you no response to the post above? We’d love to hear your explanation. Hey I know, do what you always do; Blame it on me…
Your loving companion,
Billy
Posted 04 Jan 2007 at 6:08 am ¶