Kanye West: mixed race women are “mutts” and exist solely for music videos at Racialicious

Kanye West: mixed race women are “mutts” and exist solely for music videos

by Carmen Van Kerckhove

mutt kanye west essence Thank you Kanye! Just when I was questioning the purpose of my existence, you came along and let me know exactly why mixed race women like me were put on this earth: to shake our asses in your music videos! From Media Take Out:

You knew it was coming. Kanye West seems to have put his foot in his mouth again. MediaTakeOut.com has learned that in an upcoming interview with Essence magazine, the hip hop star came down with a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.

According to a person close to the Essence story, Kanye reportedly told the magazine, “If it wasn’t for race mixing, there’d be no video girls.”

Then, as if his first comment wasn’t offensive enough, Kanye referred to biracial women as dogs. The rapper told, “Me and most of my friends like mutts a lot … Yeah, in the hood they call ‘em mutts.”

Thanks to Barbara and MzDmnr for the tip!

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Trackbacks & Pings

Kanye West Doesn’t Care About Multiracial People « Dork Nation on 20 Nov 2006 at 4:28 pm

[…] found @ Racialicious: According to a person close to the Essence story, Kanye reportedly told the magazine, “If it wasn’t for race mixing, there’d be no video girls.” Then, as if his first comment wasn’t offensive enough, Kanye referred to biracial women as dogs. The rapper told, “Me and most of my friends like mutts a lot … Yeah, in the hood they call ‘em mutts.” […]
Give You Answers on 05 Dec 2006 at 2:22 am

Has Kanye been hanging with Micheal Richards?????…

It seems a little Micheal Richards has rubbed off on him. Why is this becoming a trend: http://www.racialicious.com/2006/11/20/k……
Give You Answers on 05 Dec 2006 at 2:32 am

What do you think of this comment???…

http://www.racialicious.com/2006/11/20/k… Oh hell no…i wouldnt approve of anything like that …i…

Comments

Lyonside wrote:

What hood does Kanye speak for? Having heard this enough as a kid, sometimes but not always directed at me, if you call someone a mutt in Philly, you are going to start something huge and ugly.

Damn.. I admit, the dude is talented and knows a good hook when he hears one. But this does make me glad I don’t actually own an album.

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 10:17 am ¶
Revolution wrote:

I sincerely hope this is a misquote so I don’t have to lose respect for Kanye and delete him from my mp3 library.

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 1:09 pm ¶
KXB wrote:

The hood? He grew up in a middle-class suburb of Chicago. As Carlos Mencia spoofed, “His momma’s house is bigger than his.”

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 1:23 pm ¶
mr guy wrote:

I’ve lived in the “hood”.I have never heard anyone call a biracial woman a “mutt”

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 1:36 pm ¶
geecheegrrl wrote:

He should be locked up in a room with not-funny comedian Michael Richards

“Michael Richards stunned a comedy club audience, shouting racial epithets at people who heckled him during a stand-up routine”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061120/ap_on_en_tv/people_michael_richards

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 2:11 pm ¶
Julia Stepchild wrote:

Lyonside, I’m glad I don’t have a Kanye CD either… OR a “Kanye Was Right” t-shirt.

http://colorofchange.org/tshirts.html

Oh, wait, I just noticed that the t-shirts were made by American Apparel. Figures.

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 6:16 pm ¶
S wrote:

I wonder if he really said that. Remeber when Beyonce was misquotedwhen she said she makes “black music”?

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 7:37 pm ¶
bertie wrote:

Kanye has shown his azz on many occasions–this is just another in a long line of dumb-dumb moments from him. I guess his reference to “the hood” is the mythical hood that exists only in the hip-hop world–where everybody rides on 22s, drinks champange in clubs, all women short shorts and high heels walking down the street, every body is or has been successfully “grinding”, and middle class momma’s boys are considered “hood certified,” and not the actual hood as in inner city or poor rural america.

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 8:08 pm ¶
makethelogobigger wrote:

So Motley Crue actually gets a pass this time in the degrading woman department?

Posted 20 Nov 2006 at 10:27 pm ¶
hapa peminist wrote:

You can’t fix stupid!!

Kanye has NO street cred, he’s from the SUBURBS for f*ck’s sake! And I won’t even go there on how he has a thing for white porn stars….

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 4:03 am ¶
Eric Daniels wrote:

Kanye going 50 Cent on us, what’s next Young Jezzy wearing Kente Cloth and spouting Black Nationalist rap.

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 10:20 am ¶
Clitus the black wrote:

God made you Carmen how could “he/she/it/entity” be wrong? As a proud black man i will ALWAYS accept you. I hope this helps fore i sincerely mean it.

Please do not let kanye’s words enter your heart.I believe he is slowing learning what i have learnt.Would you believe me if i said i made a ton of money but gave it all away when i learned the truth?

What i mean is no matter how hard we climb we will never be Geppetto in this system.I have long realize the mental pain half black/white people go thru.Take heart in that you could get closer to my enemy then i ever could.

Feedback is what counts…;) some get this…some dont.

Eric daniels says
“Kanye going 50 Cent on us, what’s next Young Jezzy wearing Kente Cloth and spouting Black Nationalist rap”

We Ach’s dont “spout” but rather teach on those “dangerous” corners.

AbraHAM was a black sumerian.
Nationalist enough for you?

Peace be upon the Saint El Haji Malik El Shabazz.

Clitus
Harlem,NY

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 8:08 pm ¶
Clitus the black wrote:

er…carmen your not white/black whoops sorry about that.

ill keep it moving.

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 8:27 pm ¶
Rachel wrote:

Geeze, why does he think mutt is OK.

On another note, he’s not the first person I have heard make the video girl comment. My sense is that this attitude is both insulting to black women and multiracial women. The racist ideas is that Black women and too dark to be in the video, and biracial women are “exotic.” Unfortunately, there are many more folks who believe this beyond Kanye West.

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 9:49 pm ¶
Oh brother wrote:

My sentiments exactly, Rachel. If he indeed said this, it’s an insult not only to biracial women, but to black women. I for one am a dark skinned sista and we are definitely aware that many black men have this mentality.

He didn’t say anything any other black man hasn’t said verbal or through his actions.

Unfortunately there is so much self hatred and I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon.

Posted 21 Nov 2006 at 11:20 pm ¶
S wrote:

He can keep leaving us out, because I don’t wish for anyone to be portrayed as those women are in those videos. So, I’m glad he doesn’t use people who look like me. Not to say that it’s O.K. for other skin shades to be treated like hoes, but if you keep showing up to be put in the video…I guess you’ll keep getting used. Sadly, some of the very women who get dogged by him will STILL buy his albums, still rock his clothing line if he had one…
If it is true that he said that, do you think that all biracial women would boycot him and refuse to be in his videos? Doubt it. A boycot would really send a message to him, but this day in age, there are just not enough people to stand up and make it happen, or so it seems.

Posted 22 Nov 2006 at 11:26 am ¶
hope wrote:

I do not agree with Mr. Kayne West using the term “mutt” to describe biracial women. However, I do agree that the media is constantly casting biracial females over dark skinned females, in movies, t.v. shows, commercials, and advertisements. The outrage should also be over the death of dark skinned women in the media.

Posted 23 Nov 2006 at 1:20 pm ¶
Ted Duplessis wrote:

Well, I am over it! While I have been a supporter for people of color, a member of the NAACP and donated money to C.O.R.E.-I have grown resentful of the black community and a respected magazine(which my mother always subscribed to for the past 20 years)-elevating these ghetto, negroes to our spokes people! Since, I am Creole of mixed race-Kanye West has made me see what whites have always complained about and that is the double standard of black hate speech vs. other hate talk. This comment could result in hate crimes and violence against bi-racial, light skin black or mixed females. I really don’t want to hear blacks saying that ignorance is an isolated case when it is clearly a virus.

Posted 24 Nov 2006 at 6:32 pm ¶
Annamarie wrote:

that comment was rather disgusting. And also what was said previously, he is dissing full black women too, just because we’re not half of something else, means that we’re not good enough to be in his videos, thats sick. And that sad part is, sooo many men think this its not even funny.wake up call: black women are just as beautiful. And calling bi racial women mutts, he should nationally apologize for his ignorance, they are ladies, and nothing else. When are people going to stop basing beauty on colour instead of actual beauty?

Posted 25 Nov 2006 at 12:16 am ¶
S wrote:

Actual Beauty? The answer is never. We are talking about humans here. That will never happen. We’ve gotten close. Mixed black people are considered beautiful (meaning you CAN BE beautiful IF you’re not a child of two black parents who had two black parents…) You are asking people to admit that dark skin BLACK women are beautiful and valuable too. Sorry to break it to you, but that is just too much to ask.

Anyway. I doubt if we will hear Kanye say that biracial women are mutts PUBLICALLY (on video). They may not boycott his videos, but I bet there would be enough angry people to cause his sales to plummit. One can’t continue to complain without taking some sort of action. We don’t like what he said (says) but are we going to continue to support him anyway??? It would be great to hear a news reporter say that there has been a shortage of women to star in Kanye’s videos! Now THAT would be BREAKING NEWS!

Posted 25 Nov 2006 at 9:51 am ¶
Antoinette - san wrote:

Hmph .. mutt ?

Nice to know after my mixed family, who were born and raised the same as anyone else btw, have made a mutt .

Aha .. now I can go dance in music videos like a tramp and help objectify women .

Thanks for clearing that up Kanye .

Ugh . It’s arrogant, obnoxious people like him that don’t help this world .

Posted 25 Nov 2006 at 10:08 pm ¶
Kristine! wrote:

Mutts? Is that the right terminology? I’m getting really sick of Kanye now, first with his obvious arrogance with him posing to be Jesus, then by him saying he is a better rapper than most, and now, labelling bi-racial women as mutts? Is that what he said???

I think Kanye should stay out of the music business. He has angered quite a few people with his “opinions” about the world and now, reffereing to women as if they were dogs, no better than the term “bitch” it is down right disgusting.

When will we as American citizens learn that beauty should not be objectified by race, age, language or hair color. Maybe then when we realize that beauty comes in every color, our perception of prettiness will become more advance

Posted 26 Nov 2006 at 4:12 pm ¶
Kanye wrote:

yo yo yo i think mutts aint hoes
i liek them girls
with no afros, just curls
and light skin
@sses very thin

yo yo yo
them darkies gotta go

sorry mama but you know it aint fo’ sho

Posted 26 Nov 2006 at 4:14 pm ¶
S wrote:

Good point, Kristine. It isn’t any better than “b*tch”, which is a term that has been used to describe us for so long, that, just like the word “n*gger”, people have begun to embrace it, and use it to describe themselves.

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 12:47 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Mutt has a deeper connotation though (not saying B* isn’t insulting - it is - but it’s also used as a impersonal concept - “that’s a B*” for a bad luck occurance for example) -

Mutt implies mixed BREEDs, which means that the different races are subspecies AND that they can be “bred” for certain traits.. considering the history of the eugenics movement, that’s a scary concept that unfortunately is deep rooted in the US psyche. Every time some jerk says that black are “naturally” better at something (usually sports), my hackles (heh) go up.

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 1:15 pm ¶
s wrote:

Yeah, that’s a good point, Lyonside.

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 1:44 pm ¶
Jenifer wrote:

Man…dont believe everything u hear from media take out…i remember this one time they said in an upcoming Essence magazine Neyo admitted he was gay….that never happened…so until we see this actually magazine i wouldnt believe it

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 7:51 pm ¶
Jenifer wrote:

Man…dont believe everything u hear from media take out…i remember this one time they said in an upcoming Essence magazine Neyo admitted he was gay….that never happened…so until we see this actually magazine i wouldnt believe it

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 7:51 pm ¶
Nina wrote:

In fairness to Essence the quote was in a section about people “better seen than heard.” They were hardly glorifying Kanye’s ignorant comment-though they did print it. Pg. 72 of the current issue BTW.

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 9:27 pm ¶
Angelique wrote:

Being a biracial woman, I am very offended by his comments more so than those of Michael Richards. Kanye is a black man who should uphold his race and not demean them (especially the women) by calling biracial people “mutts”. I was not bred nor do I bark. He should be ashamed of himself. Maybe he needs to have his jaw wired again.

Posted 27 Nov 2006 at 10:52 pm ¶
iamnotstarjones wrote:

Kanye doesn’t have to do anything but love his mama, stay black and die.

Remember you have the option to download all his future music illegally if you are truly pissed off.

Posted 29 Nov 2006 at 4:47 am ¶
David Johnson wrote:

Helen of Troy, for whom an entire generation of men lost their lives, was always calling herself a mutt. (cf. Iliad Book 6 line 344)

Posted 30 Nov 2006 at 8:22 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

David Johnson: *blink* and your point is…?

I’m not going to even go into about how the Illiad is not a historical document, but I really don’t think Homer had Kany’e’s racial intentions in mind.

Posted 30 Nov 2006 at 10:38 pm ¶
A. Mae wrote:

First of all…the comments on here only show that yall cant read nor read between the lines. Kanye is obviously making note of the fact that dark skinned women arent found attractive enough to be video girls hencforth “if there wasnt race mixin-no video girls” comment. and the hood thing…read it again. thats what “THEY” call them in the hood” He didnt say “WE”. Therefore he wasnt catergorizin himself in that statement…the word “mutt” was being used for biracial women LOONG before he said it. so who are you really mad at? I think yall she be mad at the ignorant black people who still think that lighter is better. GO AHEAD KANYE!!!!!

Posted 03 Dec 2006 at 9:03 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

And i wish i c ould smack all of yall..

Posted 03 Dec 2006 at 9:05 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:

A. Mae: I’m glad for your sake you can’t TRY to smack us *EG*.

Maybe it’s a misquote (as someone said above), but the quote as it’s printed certainly doesn’t sound like Kanye’s speaking OUT against colorism/racism in the hiphop/entertainment culture. It sounds like he’s approving or at least tolerant.

Sure, let’s argue about semantics of using “they” vs. “we.” THAT matters *eyeroll*

Noone said he invented “mutt” as an epithet. But since you’re obviously part of his fanbase, and I do think he’s a bright guy with definite skill, don’t you think he should have a clue and be a POSITIVE influence instead of sounding like a woman-degrading racist??

Posted 04 Dec 2006 at 12:14 pm ¶
SAL wrote:

I used to have angst about being a light-skinned biracial woman and I had encounters with nasty, dark-skinned black men like Kanye who would say ill s**t to me. The truth is that there have been biracial people in this country since we hit these shores. Yes, light-skinned women have the privilege of shaking their asses and long hair (real or weaved) in videos for the titillation of white men and unevolved brothers like Kanye. But at the end of the day we are all African peoples and, in this climate, we need to work together and not against each other. Kanye’s music will be forgotten in 5 years–he’s a self-destructive, bombastic idiot. Biracial people–don’t accept ignorant mess from self-hating darker brothers and sisters. And darker sisters and brothers–love yourself and be proud so that we lighter people can learn to love ourselves and stop trying to pretend we’re “almost” white.

Posted 04 Dec 2006 at 11:23 pm ¶
A. Mae wrote:

He never said thats what they were SOLELY created for…yall took it a step further…But since you obvoiusly need facts to validate it..how many darkskinned video girls do you see? are you honestly gonna tell me that lightskinned women arent casted over darker skinned woment?
Never said he hated women..so where did that come from..black ppl so quick and eager to get crunk on sombody..and this is the same black race that ostricize their own for being to dark…but when someone snaps on the light skinned folk yall wanna get all defensive..and yes the semantics just matter..because they obviously have 2 DISTINCT meanings.. NO LIGHT SKINNED GIRLS mean NO VIDEO GIRLS. end of story

Posted 07 Dec 2006 at 7:27 pm ¶
A. Mae wrote:

Its too late for all that work together bullshyt…because no matter how much we say “darker the berry the sweeter the juice”..it will always mean “darker the berry the uglier it is.” The stigma and isolation that come with being dark will never be lifted. How many whites do you see goin…”well your hair isnt straight enough or your eyes arent light enough” But then you wonder why u dont have the respect of the white man when he sees you callin your brother “skillet” and “burnt”. Do you believe yall deserve the respect of the black man? no. dont get mad at Kanye..because if it wasnt for black people stereotypical previous actions…he wouldnt have anything to say now would he?

Posted 07 Dec 2006 at 7:33 pm ¶
A. Mae wrote:

and lets keep it real..what stigma comes with being light skinned..you will never hear a black man say “No, im not gonna date you because your hair is too straight, your skin is too light and your eyes are to light.”

Posted 08 Dec 2006 at 5:33 pm ¶
kim wrote:

A. Mae,

I went to visit a cousin two years ago, and as we talked and I made a comment about being light-skinned,then moved on in the conversation, assuming her to be on board with me, she stopped walking, reached out and grabbed me, and asked, incredulously, if there were problems that lightskinned women underwent - both in the “community” and with Black men.

I was astounded, and asked her if she was joking. No. I told her she was joking, and merely waited for her confirmation of such. It never came.

She is a deep, rich brown and I am very light with almost no gold, tan, shading, etc.

As with her, I will say to you that light-skinned women do not wake up everyday, look in the mirror, and give praises for “not being dark.” In fact, for many years of a light-skinned woman’s life, she may catch so much hell (not dark enough, not sister enough, nor Sista enough, accused of not being Black enough politically or spiritually) that she may find herself wondering what it is to be brown, and inconspicuous, among her people.

Light-skinned women suffer the same type of misogynistic abuses that all women do, and when she declines some ruffian’s invitation to sex her up in his own inimitable, toothless, slurping-her-up-through-a-straw into the hole at the front of his mouth way designed to sound enticing, she is cursed for being all sorts of half-breed, half-white, stink-a** b*t**es as any other self-respecting woman.

I know you are not a frequent contributor to this site, and you seem full of a kind of furious hate that comes from someplace that has nothing to do with another woman. Unless it was in the most tender bond a person knows in life, at the start of life.

Sister, all I can say to you, is watch some light-skinned sisters, real women please, not little girls who are just discovering their power over men due to circumstances beyond their control. Listen to these women; speak with them.

Angela Davis and Nikki Giovanni, Eleanor Holmes Norton and Marianne Wright Edelman, Jessica Care Moore and Asha Bandele, and legions more…have never turned away from their sisterhood with you.

Don’t waste time defending someone who would demean your sisters the way Kanye has. It will not be long before such a person finds it expedient to demean you.

Posted 08 Dec 2006 at 6:37 pm ¶
???###??? wrote:

Please stop calling BIRACIAL women MIXED. That in itself is offensive.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 1:44 am ¶
Gin wrote:

Kanye, Kanye… Funny to see how his glossy image as a hip-hop artist is so intentional and controlled yet the man behind the music has no idea which way the wheel is turning. Watch out for that trash can, dawg!

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 5:25 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

How has kanye demeaned yall? thats what i still dont understand…MOST as in (92.6%) VIDEO VIXENS ARE LIGHT SKINNED. NO RACE MIXING NO VIDEO GIRLS!!!. Its in black and white(no pun intended). so there are no gray areas. its visible- watch any music video and if not all of them are light skinned then 99% of them are. HE NEVER SAID THATS THE SOLE PURPOSE THE ONLY PURPOSE THE ABSOLUTE PURPOSE OF THE LIGHTSKINNED WOMAN. So where is that coming from? He didnt coin the word “mutt” brothers were sayin it looong before he did…so are yall really mad at. Kanye is merely voicing out what is already there.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 9:10 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

Now if the quote went like this: “No race mixing means no video girls, because thats the only purpose of a light skinned sister and in my opinion they are mutts and thats what myself and my friends call them”. Then ya’ll can get belligerent. But this quote and the one at the begnning of the page are completely different…reading comprehension anyone?

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 9:13 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

???###??? wrote:

Please stop calling BIRACIAL women MIXED. That in itself is offensive.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 1:44 am ¶

But when you join one race and another race and they have sex…their blood MIXES…so therefore you have a child thats a MIX of 2 indiviuals of different races…resulting in a MIXED child

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 9:15 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

I think its time for the black community to open there are eyes around them and really pay attention. I dont see light skinned girls nor women being made fun of because they are too light skinned..and if they are..it doesnt happen as often as the ridiculing of the darker skinned sister. Memeber back then with the affluent blacks of Martha’s Vineyard–if you were darker than a paper bag you couldnt marry into their family. O!!! the hardships of being lighter skinned..geez that must suck.
And if in deed lightskinned people are being isolated for being lightskinned and are not being wholey accepted…then what does that tell you.. African americans are fukked up..cause if ur dark its a bad thing..now if ur light…its still a bad thing. damn!!!!!!

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 9:20 am ¶
A. Mae wrote:

you will never hear a black man say “No, im not gonna date you because your hair is too straight, your skin is too light and your eyes are to light.”

that in my opinion is evidence enough…cause me and alot of my darker skinned sisters feel like we have to work extra extra extra hard to get a man..especially when ur competiton is Mya whos momma was white. But you dont understand that..becuz ya’ll light skinned..and you will never walk in our shoes

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 9:22 am ¶
kim wrote:

Annie Mae,

that is your name, right? An era of Mae’s brought forth a generation of Annes/Anns/Annies…Black, true enough.

Honey, have you ever sought to communicate a cohesive thought? You are angry because you have a really nasty disposition, which you emanate.

You give what you get, in many instances.

I could care less about Kanye West, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, as you have no idea how to clearly express it.

But…if you are having problems finding someone in your life, maybe you need to look elsewhere: away from the clubs and streetcorners, not at the Dollar Store or bus stop, not at the neighborhood hoops game.

And maybe you need to look inward.

Dark-skin women marry, find love, and “partners” they can ‘get their groove on with’ every day. But these are women who have self-respect, confidence, a sense of their own value, and standards for themselves and others.

Look elsewhere for love. Before you look for a man to give it to you, look inside of yourself.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 1:48 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

No. My name is Addie and do not patronize me with the looking for love on the street corner rant. Im not angry about anything, I am however disappointed that lighter skinned women are trying to express the disadvantages of being lightskinned when in actuality they have it better than darkeskinned people and the whole “you will never find a black man say your hair is too long and straigt..etc” quote was merely an example, because my love life isnt significant to you, however it expresses the difficulties of darker skinned women. And if you were darkskinned yourself…you would be able to relate. And Im actually a pretty slowed tempered person in reality, so me not being able to find a man(which isnt even true anymore in which that Im already engaged) isnt neccessarily true, cause I know for a fact that my personality is on point. Furthermore the whole lightskinned sistahs attitude of “I have suffered as much if not more as the darkerskinned sister is complete bull.
Funny how you decided to focus on the quote about my relationship life.
What about the quote about the blacks of 1.)Martha’s Vineyard and how you couldnt marry into the family if you were darker than a paperbag.
2.) How fairer skinned slaves were treated better than the darker ones.
3.) How many times the darker skinned sister has heard I would date you but you too black. Or “Damn that bitch is burnt” or You too damn black.
But Im sorry…the lighter skinned women have it so so so much harder. NOT!. Walk in a darkskinned sistahs shoe once and I gurantee you your opinion will change. “Folks dont know how it is until they cross the creek and fish on the other side”- Addie

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 3:20 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And my stand on the Kanye quote..he never said that was the SOLE purpose of the light skinned sister—thats just black people acting out a stereotype and finding excuses to get belligerent. I do however agree that he should have kept the word “mutt” to himself. But ask yourself this…if there werent light skinned women..how many video girls would we really have?

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 3:27 pm ¶
kim wrote:

Addie Mae, or to properly respect your posting name, A. Mae:

I wasn’t focusing on anything you said in particular. Your energy says those things to me. I focused on what is at the core of your upset, because that is how you actually feel to me.

You seem to think light-skinned women are sitting around complaining. About anything. We are not. See, light-skinned women are about doing their jobs…waking up and taking care of the laundry, going to work, building community. If that is what they are about. If they are about something else, something shallow, something materialistic, something in-your-face, then ask yourself : just what kind of person are you dealing with?

My comments here to you are about the politic and tone of how one presents oneself. No one is defending Kanye’s comments and at the same time bemoaning their “complexion,” as it is called in the Black community.

The nature of the discussion about Mr. West is the use of his derogatory terms. You would justify his use of such terms because they preceded him, and are in wide use in the “community,” or “hood.” Listen to the other things you complain about as being at large in said community, and how upset you are about them:

3.) How many times the darker skinned sister has heard I would date you but you too black. Or “Damn that bitch is burnt” or You too damn black.

Ms. A. Mae,

do you really seek to be in the company of anyone who refers to a woman in such terms? Who seeks to dismiss another human being openly, rudely, and on the basis of that which that human being has NO CONTROL over?

Do you notice how my comments to you about the demeaning aspect of the above speech mirrors the demeaning aspects of the “mutt” comment as it relates to light-skinned women?

Who really cares how how hard, or how good, a woman’s chances are of dating or sexing a man who sees a woman as less than human?
(I presume, based on the level of the rant you have displayed here, that you are of an age to use such terms as ’sexing,’ and probably a member of a social environment where it is bandied about)

Because you are acclimated to a climate where the values and dispositions of video/street culture seem to actually represent how Black people feel about each other, how we attract mates and establish relationships, you do not see beyond the male-dominated, materialistic, bling-bling. hottie mentality that is actually a bastardization of any self-respecting group.

The video world, the rap and hip-hop world are not TRUE TO LIFE DEPICTIONS of how our lives are; how our inner lives are; what our aspirations are; what our options are; what our future is.

And don’t even step to me with your dark-skin-validates-my-Blackness (read: real Sista) crap, because the ghetto does not discriminate when it comes to who goes hungry, who goes homeless, who gets raped and disemboweled, who ends up on drugs, who makes other options, who determines they can be something other than that which the face of decrepit tenement buildings and project hallways says they are.

The biggest differences are the opportunities and stresses placed on the genders. If you want to have a discussion of how life separates because of the double whammy of color + (anything), talk to me about gender issues.

You think you have such a hard row to hoe, to use a southern expression. Does that make you think that no other woman does? Are you really that self-absorbed, that apolitical, that single minded?

Based on the tone of your very last post, I would say that you do not hold yourself to be. But then you don’t live where I live, do you?

You weren’t encircled on the play ground in first grade and made to sit in the middle, while the rest of the children played ‘ring around the white girl.’

You weren’t openly told by little dark-skinned children that you weren’t allowed to come to their party because “only Black people could come to their party,” were you?

You weren’t beat up when the lights when out on the sixth floor in the project housing unit because some girl had been raped and ‘brothers’ were out to get the ‘white’ people were you?

Really. Sister. Do you ever read about real women doing real things for the betterment of us all.

If I were Bebe Moore Campbell, God rest her soul, what would I have to say to you? Say it with me now , come on, “Your Blues Ain’t Like Mine.”

Doesn’t mean we don’t both sing a mean one. Open your mind.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 4:17 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

“And don’t even step to me with your dark-skin-validates-my-Blackness ” That never came out in my comment nor did I even imply it. My point and comments are strictly about Kanye’s quote and its motivation and its connotation….so your rant about the ghetto and this and that…IRRELAVANT. And if you werent being belligerent…You would have noticed that I did state that I didnt agree with the mutt part of the Kanye’s quote..however..everything else is true. Now though you may have been called white girl and been picked on blah blah blah…you and your lightskinned sisters suffering is not COMPRABLE to that of a darker skinned sister. Because when you say “lightskinned”…whats the first thing that comes to a black persons mind both male and female alike….she must be beautiful, desriable, and intelligent. Im sorry that we seem to perpetuate the stereotypes we denounce. But thats the way it is. THats reality..if you dont think like that…then MORE POWER TO YOU…but thats not how it is in the real world. In the real world…being lightskinned is a damn good thing! And even though you went through or are going through your “your not black enough” phase with your peers….its not as prominent as “your too black phase”. Being darkskinned will always be frowned upon more than being lightskinned. And where I live as nothing to do with it..because Ive live in collegepark,ga(black ghetto) to conyers, ga(uppermiddle class country white area)…and its the same exact story…”you’re too black.” All im saying is…you dont know what it feels like cause your not darkskinned….and i dont know what it feels like to be lightskinned cause im not. AGREE TO DISAGREE..you cannot speak for me…and i cannot speak for you I can only account for what I have been through and what I have witnessed my fellow darkskinned sisters have been through. and you can only do the same for your lightskinned sistahs…all in all..I LOVE YOU AND MYSELF JUST THE SAME. But I will never believe that your ridiculing is comprable to mine.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 6:37 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And you havent experienced what i have.
1.) Having your bestfriends mother come outside and pull her daughter in while saying I dont want you to get all “black and toasty” like your friend addie.(she doesnt know that i heard that)
2.) Being called skillet, blacky, darky, tar, blackie chan, blackie robinson, by not only peers but TEACHERS!…same teacher who told me that if not a white person would get the job before me and lighter skinned girl will. (this was when i was applying at macdonalds when i was a teen.)
3.) Having lightskinned girls tell me i couldnt join their “pretty girls club” not because i wasnt pretty because I was too dark and my hair wasnt as long as theirs.
4.) Having the guy that gave me my first kiss call me a matchstick behind my back and later on got my lighter skinned friend pregnant.
5.) Having “coal girl written on my locker in middle school (salem middle-lithonia,ga(black area))
6.) Having kids scratch me with sticks to see if i would leave a black residue on it.
7.) Having to watch my neice get pushed to the back of the line at the slide while all the black boys let the light skinned girls jump them. (that one really hits home)

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 7:18 pm ¶
kim wrote:

And what is the common ground here, A. Mae:

betrayal.

Does yours make more sense (meaning, is it more justifiable?) Does yours hurt less? hurt more?

The point: I said to you that with perspective and consideration, you will see that every woman goes through her own travails, and women on both side of the color issue in the Black community have felt the sting of the clashes that exist within our community.

I asked that you not dismiss the hurt of light-skinned women; theirs is not always an easy “in.”

In childhood we all suffered the terrible backlash of what had been transmitted through our communities’ adoption of the value system that had been imposed on it in slavery, and up through the present.

If we are awake, aware, and dedicated to Blackness as a place central to all humanity, then we realize that at its core it is nurturing, it is the essence of all that can be created, and it created the sister next to us, as well as ourselves.

When we continue to pass on the prejudices and beliefs that color in our communities has value, then we become the parties guilty of hurting the next generation: your nieces, and mine.

I will not do it, I will not dance that tantalizing, tormenting dance.

And this is not me being pompous or bombastic or self-righteous: I only understood how deeply split we were after reading Malcom X’s autobiography at fifteen. And I walked around Harlem and the Bronx and let every young man who called me out of my name, (”light-skiiiiin,” “redbone-almost-white,” “white chocolate,”/ whatever)…know that he would no longer do that, for in expressing a desire for me framed in those terms, he is letting me know that he would openly ignore or disrespect any brown-skinned sister who walked by, or happened to be with me. As though that made me exceptional, and her second-class.

Taking my cue from Janet Jackson, I actually introduced myself to them, told them my real name (something you and I know you just don’t do), and told them to use it, and NEVER call me, or any other light-skinned sister by the terms he’d used with me. You should have seen the way brothers looked at me, but they always smiled, and always apologized.

And, I like to think, they thought twice about the meaning of what I’d said, considering their mothers and mine are deep brown/black, and , let’s face it, we all love our mommas.

You’re right: I haven’t experienced what I have, but consider the man who is loving you now: would he reject someone who looks like me on the basis of my being very fair? Is he a good man? (of course he is, right?) Is that fair?

Peace to you.

And those girls were idiots (#3 in your above post), because, as my grandmother said, and I’ve carried with me my whole life: “Kimmalee, I don’t care how pretty a woman’s face is; if she got ugly ways - she ugly!”

Maybe it could all end with your family, and mine.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 10:20 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

Im glad we found a common ground:). ITs refreshing actually.

Posted 09 Dec 2006 at 11:24 pm ¶
Justin Bell wrote:

Uhm well being a Creole… excuse me mutt. I find his comments very empowering. I mean what better way for saying mixed people are good liking then likening them to dogs! I mean they are our best friends right, right? No lets be serious he is just saying that mixed people are so good looking that they should be viewed as sexual objects! But in all honesty over 90% of all blacks in america have both white lineage and native blood flowing through their veins. That small portion that doesn’t are either African immagrents or the children of immagrents. So Kanye unless you just got off the boat. Keep your opinions to yourself the black community doesnt need any more divisions. So Kanye stop bringing Blacks down.

Posted 12 Dec 2006 at 8:43 pm ¶
skyy wrote:

races have been mixed since man was formed from the dust of the earth. cut us open and we all bleed red. God ,Jesus Christ , made us. nobody has the right to degrade the masters creation. we shall all stand before God and give an account to every idle word we say. nearly all of us have some other race in our blood. i’m a black american,but i’m lightskined with straight and curly hair,and i’m confused with being spanish or mixed. it doesn’t even mater. one day we who are children of the most high,will be changed in the twinkling of an eye,and recieve new glorious bodies. peace.

Posted 15 Dec 2006 at 12:42 am ¶
herpeapod wrote:

Changed from this life of sin
To one that brings that great joy within
Changed in the twinkling of an eye…

took me back for a minute. ahem.

Justin, somewhere along the line, perhaps with Skippy Gates and his PBS crew?, I heard the number was closer to 70% of mixed-raced Blacks, but whose counting?

Posted 15 Dec 2006 at 12:48 am ¶
WireITup wrote:

LOOKS like Kayne mouth needs to be wired back up to stop him from make an AZZ out of himself. Everytime his young buck open his mouth something stupid comes out.

Posted 18 Dec 2006 at 4:59 pm ¶
Dan wrote:

Damn I swear the reaction to this is way over the top. Who cares if he said the word mutt! I’m sure what he was trying to say was that mixed women or mutts are stunning! The media is just trying to sell some tabloids so they make him seem racist. I love mixed women too I’m Latino and have white, black and indian aunts and uncles so naturally most my cousins are mixed who cares. Eventually most the worlds population are going to be mutts. All he was trying to say is Mutts are hot!!!!!!!!!! It was a compliment

Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 4:41 am ¶
faith wrote:

Isn’t his wife to be a “mutt”?

Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 12:51 pm ¶
faith wrote:

Guess he met her on a video set!

Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 12:54 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Dan: Are you familiar with the concept of “positive” stereotyping?

All Asians (or all Pacific Asians) are good at math and computers - god help the Japanese kid with a learning disorder!

All Latinos are “hot-blooded”/”good lovers” - god help the Latino/a trying to get away from a possessive or abusive relationship, or put someone away for attempted rape.

And All mixed people (or in this case, black/white people) are “beautiful”/ “exotic”/ “hot”:

OMG: God help you if you don’t look like someone’s beauty ideal, esp. if you are a woman. God help you if you have weight issues. God help you if you don’t even WANT to conform to any one ideal placed on society.

And ask yourself: where did this concept come from? why is a mixed-race woman with white descent (as almost all the faces in the media/models/dancers, etc. that people talk about ARE) are considered beautiful, but you just don’t hear much about black/Asian, or any other minorityX/minorityY mix as being on the same level? It’s called the European Beauty standard - look it up.

A backhanded compliment deserves the same from this first-gen biracial black/white woman: the back of my hand.

Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 1:51 pm ¶
Denae wrote:

I want each of you to think about what Brother West was saying. I object to the label mutts because none of us despite lightness or darkness are “pure” black, but lets think for a moment. Who is shown more in music videos, light or dark females? Who is constantly shown as the personification of beauty on the covers of Ebony, Jet, and Essence, light or dark? We are taking steps backwards as a people and do not see that we are returning to the days of the paper brown bag test where only light skinned black females need apply. I get it, I hope the rest of you do too.

Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 7:05 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Denae: You’re right, and there is a definite bais in pop culture against dark-skinned actresses/dancers/models of African-American descent - someone dark like Naomi Campbell is the exception, not the rule.

But: Was Kanye West CRITICIZING this trend? It sure doesn’t sound like it. And I call foul on people who seem to think that he’s objecting - sounds to me like he’s supporting the status quo, which I totally agree is UNFAIR, and reflects the European beauty standard.

Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 7:45 pm ¶
sk wrote:

hes gay… dats why he said it….hes gay

Posted 23 Dec 2006 at 2:44 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

the quote wasnt entirely false…how many video vixens are really darkskinned? im not condonin his usage of the word mutts .(even though he didnt make it up) however….if lightskinned women are valued over darkerskinned women and are thought to be more beautiful..u have no one to blame but yourselves…cause as self righteous u want to be..u have all played a role in the disenfranchising of the darkskinned woman. STOP BEING IDEALISTIC and KEEP IT REAL!

Posted 24 Dec 2006 at 4:08 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

A.Mae:

>u have no one to blame but yourselves…cause as self righteous u want to be..u have all played a role in the disenfranchising of the darkskinned woman.

HOW? WHEN? How did _I_ create this sterotype or support it? I don’t buy or otherwise support any recording artist if their work is mysogynistic, homophobic, and violent in nature. I try my damndest to be aware and speak out about the dominance of the European beauty standard. I don’t read pop culture magazines that are obsessed with this (really, currently I have a subscription to Parents magazine and Sci American - I ocassionally slum it with Psych Today and Home and Garden). I’ve never thought of my darker-skinned relatives as less attractive based on skin color, and so on and so on.

I think it bogus to say that EVERYONE who objects is suddenly part of the problem? If we didn’t object, then we’d be part of the problem, don’t you think?

Posted 24 Dec 2006 at 5:23 pm ¶
merq wrote:

OK, Lyonside, why oh WHY are you even entertaining the bitter, nonsensical ramblings of this Angry Black Woman stereotype over here?

As a black man (and no, not one of the purported 70-90% with white ancestral ties), I’ve gotta say I’m really more worried about you, A. Mae, than any of those video chicks. You come off like the modern-day embodiment of the Sapphire caricature.

Posted 24 Dec 2006 at 6:52 pm ¶
Kim wrote:

Merq,

Thanks for the reach out the other day. I hope our other sister here can hear you, I do so care for her considered voice.

By the way, Marlon Riggs was/is so on point with where he placed his energies, wasn’t he?

Are you familiar with late poet, Sabah-As-Sabah? I loved him truly. So much integrity, focus, dedication.

Posted 24 Dec 2006 at 8:56 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Hey Kim,

No, I haven’t heard of him, but I’ll be sure to look him up… and yes, Riggs was incredible. I could barely sit through his last documentary, “Black Is, Black Ain’t” as the audience was pretty-much forced to watch him die of AIDS.

That got his point across wonderfully, but let’s just say I don’t enjoy the flashbacks.

Posted 25 Dec 2006 at 12:08 am ¶
old white perv wrote:

Everyone in this world is prejudiced in one way or another… Oh Well!

Kayne West is known to have a very small penis and this is probably the source of most of his anger. I live in Hollywood and it’s kind of an open secret that he can’t satisfy a woman.

Posted 25 Dec 2006 at 1:10 am ¶
merq wrote:

Well, then. I guess that clarifies that!
[/disdainful sarcasm]

Posted 25 Dec 2006 at 6:21 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

There yall go with that idealistic shit…thats not realistic…

First of all Lyonside..you can only account for YOUR actions and for YOUR opinions…however…you count for how many out of the whole black population 0.001%. So thats great that you dont feed into the stereotype or perpetuate it…kudos for you. And once again..im not angry….the situation isnt even serious enough to be trying to be getting pressed over.
Every time some controversy starts black people wanna be all of a sudden idealistic..samples:
“Black people shouldnt use the word nigga” when in REALITY most african americans have accepted it as slang.
The darker the berry the sweeter the juice”
when in REALITY the stereotypical embodiment of beauty is light skinned long hair light eyes. (hence your video vixens)
Yea we shouldnt think like that, its not right…but thats how it is….it cant change because the stereotype will always be there…and no matter how much YOU dont feed into it…it still wont change KEEP IT REAL KEEP IT REAL KEEP IT REAl…stop with the idealistic ideas shit ..cause its not gonna fly.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:01 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

and when i say u have no one to blame but urselves…i still stand by it..I am not of American origin..i didnt have ancestors as slaves..all my people are back in nigeria and thats where my family migrated from to canada and settled in georgia.
The way i have read and understood it is that the white man(since slavery) has brainwashed you into devaluing yourselves because you were black….and you know you werent shit if you were darkskinned…ESPECIALLY if you were darkskinned…why did a majority of houseslaves just so happen to be lighterskinned? hmmmm why did a majority of lighter skinned slaves get treated better? hmmmm.
Ya’ll were made to beleive that because you were negroe…u were less of a person..a black ugly smelly thing…so the closer u can get to white…the better you are..the better you got treated…is it right? HELL NO..but thats reality. again i must stress..STOP WITH THE IDEALISM..”oh this is the way its suppose to be”…the “teachings of so and so says…” That is irrelevant… KEEP IT REAL.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:07 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

merq wrote:

OK, Lyonside, why oh WHY are you even entertaining the bitter, nonsensical ramblings of this Angry Black Woman stereotype over here?

As a black man (and no, not one of the purported 70-90% with white ancestral ties), I’ve gotta say I’m really more worried about you, A. Mae, than any of those video chicks. You come off like the modern-day embodiment of the Sapphire caricature.

Posted 24 Dec 2006 at 6:52 pm ¶

Excuse the fuck outta you.(another black stereotype.”cant get your point across with that tossing out insults”
…im not bitter..and if wat i was sayin was completely false…then id kick my own ass so fuck you very much. im doin what you arent..keeping it real. Like i said over and over and over again..its not right..the situation isnt right…but its true. thats how it is…thats how it has been thats how it will always be.

..and if you lyonside dont feed into the whole euro beauty standard, dont buy the magazines, dont agree at all…thats good! great! excellent..BUT YOU ARE ONLY ONE person…and you do realize that just about every sentence in ur #69.) response started with “I” ?Speak for yourself and no one else..all im doin is expressing the values that BLACK AMERICANS HAVE PERPEUTATED FROM THE START…all of this should have been nipped in the bud right after the slaves were freed…what happened then is now echoing now. we are reaping the consequences of the situations back then..and the reaping will never end.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:22 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

do i feed into the hype..no…frankly if ur ugly ur ugly..u can be light skinned light hair and eyes and be ugly as i dont know what, dumb as shit, and have a garbage personality….when “mixed” “light skinned” comes to mind..i envision a negro with a yellow complexion not neccessarily “beautiful”…but my opinion is irrelevant…because my opinion is idealistic..so i will refrain from spitting opinions and relate to the MODERN day facts

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:28 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

all im doin is expressing the values that BLACK AMERICANS HAVE PERPEUTATED FROM THE START…all of this should have been nipped in the bud right after the slaves were freed…

*sigh* if ONLY it were all so simple….

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:49 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

simple…its not even possible…unless u invented the time machine and i didnt know about it. lol…that was me tapping into my idealistic side….ofcourse it isnt that simple and not realistic.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 3:52 am ¶
James.P wrote:

WOW…
I agree with everyone…somewhat..however I agree more with Miss. A. Mae. Yea, you’re actually quite right, it isnt about how things should be, its about how things are. As a middle aged highschool teacher I have heard on numerous occasions of how my male black students say they “want them a redbone with long hair pretty eyes and a fat ass” My own buddy perfers light skinned women of darkerskinned ones, I have indeed witnessed him turn down a girl because she was “overdone” and by that I dont mean too much make up…I mean too dark. Do I agree with that? No! (hell I’ll take whatever I can get).lol But it isnt right. Everyone seems to be lamenting on how things should be but thats not they way they are. Lets analyze the black society and whats going on in today instead of quoting every other black poet and philosopher.
And Miss. Mae..that was hilarious.
That previous quote about you will never hear a black man say “I can’t date you! Your hair is too straight and long and your eyes are too light and so is your skin”….cause it would never happen. But you know and I know and the REST of yall know someone who’s said “yea that girl is too black” ” she needs to stay out the sun”..”i hope our kids dont come out with her complexion.”
Is that right? no but thats how it is.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:08 am ¶
James.P wrote:

So who’s fault is it again that the lightskinned complex even exists? not entirely the white man..because when black people had the chance to speak up they didnt—we kept that standard of beauty. How many of yall would really like Vanessa Williams and Halle Berry if they had the skin complexion of Alec Wek(darkskinned woman)…ok…lets keep it real.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:12 am ¶
James.P wrote:

And reading through these comments..lets keep it civilized..just because someone doesnt accept your perception of things does not give you the right to patronize them and calling them “bitter” saying they are rambling nonsensically”—thats just flat out childish. That kind of action INVALIDATES everything you’ve said and will say.
You are right Mae…black people cant get their point across without tossing out insults.”
(and you cant blame that on the white man now can you?)

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:16 am ¶
James.P wrote:

oh…black people and their belligerency

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:39 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

I agree too actually I think because they dont personally believe it, buy it , participate in it or even experienced it they dont believe its going on therefore resulting in their idealistic views.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:04 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

And reading through these comments..lets keep it civilized..just because someone doesnt accept your perception of things does not give you the right to patronize them and calling them “bitter” saying they are rambling nonsensically”—thats just flat out childish. That kind of action INVALIDATES everything you’ve said and will say.
You are right Mae…black people cant get their point across without tossing out insults.”
(and you cant blame that on the white man now can you?)

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 4:16 am ¶

Tell em again James..tell em again. lol. that was mighty rude though. tsk tsk tsk

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:12 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

Dont get me wrong here..not that im not saying that lighter skinned women havent have their share of discrimination…but it isnt comprable to that of a darker skinned woman and I must include that im brown skinned neither favoring any party.

If you as an individual were beat up and tormented because you were lighter skinned— im sorry..maybe your INDIVIDUAL suffering was more than another darker skinned INDIVIDUAL’S. However in a broader light..as a whole..the suffering of a light skinned sistah is NOT and NEVER WILL BE comprable to that of the darkskinned sistah (not even trying to make it into an “I have suffered more competion”)….and thats just the fact. not even my opinions.
-By courtesy of my AAAS degree at Duke.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:19 am ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

I agree with everyone…everyone makes some pretty explicitly reasonable pointsl….however, I especially agree with A.mae and James…I appreciate the realistic view of it.

And Olivia…I agree also..but you know thats not what light skinned black people want to hear. lol lol. But hey, I guess the truth must be told… not realized…it has been realized..just not verbalized and why? Because people just cant handle it. I say praise black people both light and dark..and I believe you agree also A. Mae. I dont believe that you are attacking lightskinned people…however you are making some damn good points with the whole realism and idealism factor..because thats what its all going to boil down to- “which is ideal and which is real”. And real will always outweigh ideal because thats what we live in. We dont live in an ideal society…obviously(lol) so why try and view everything in that light?Some things cant be changed. The light skinned complex has been around for hundreds of years..even dating back to India where the word “nigger” originated among English Colonists…so the stigmas of the stereotypical qualities of light skinned people will not be lifted by making idealistic statements on here and quoting every black intellectual in the textbook.
Sometimes you just have to stick to the facts. Its a stigma in our society that we cannot lift…Im sorry its there. I dont condone it…and Im sure neither does A. Mae. Lyonside, james, olivia,kim etc…but be real guys be real.

My name is Morehouse Man and I am a Mulatto.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:38 am ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

And some knowledge for those who desperately need it… the word “nigger” was used by English Colonists to distinguish the darker Indians(south ) from the lighter Indians(north) and by Indians not Native Americans. And yes…they enslaved the “niggers” (Southen Indians) because they could withstand the scorching rays of the Indian sun while English colonist could preserve the beauty of the lighter Indians and fornicate with them. So when Kanye does make a statement like that…I dont even bat an eye offense.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:46 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

Bout time…. Never once did I say that Kanye was justified to use to word mutt…but everything else prior to that word usage in his quote is absolutely the truth(thats what this forum is about isnt it?) . I do not have a personal vendetta against light skinned women…surely u dont believe all my friends are darkskinned women–hell my best friends are light skinned. However, I am lamenting on the fact of how no one took time to read in between the lines of Kanye’s quote. I am lamenting on the fact that no one said it was the SOLE purpose of the light skinned woman to shake her ass…I am indeed lamenting that through these long years of negroe oppression the lightskinned complex and the beauty issue still exists(whether you buy the magazine or not)…I dont need to quote any black poet-philospher-or activist and refer to anyones teachings to validate what YOU and I see everyday. Not that I am saying that it is irrelevant. But the teachings of so and so has been around for years….and has the lightskinned complex been lifted? NOPE. still there and just as strong as it was years ago. I do not appreciate the fact that I come here to voice out my opinion and someone is calling me bitter and dont appreciate you talking to me in a patronizing tone. When all I am doing is shedding light on the fact that the stigma of being darkskinned is much much more heavier in society than being lightskinned…but you we want start another march over Kanye’s statement about lightskinned women. But what do I know…Im just rambling nonsensically. Sorry I come off a like “Sapphire Caricature” …. I suppose its my fault that the lightskinned beauty standard is my doing somehow right? No you opted your opinion with no insults and I expect the same respect. Always that one negroe to fuck it up.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 9:02 am ¶
merq wrote:

To the more rational members of this group (no, step back A. Mae and James B):

Nobody’s (no, let’s rephrase that I’m) not saying there’s no stigma against darker-skinned folk. I’m well-aware of that fact. But to put the blame solely on the doorstep of light-skinned people is ludicrous!

Of course, there are light-skinned people who really do see themselves as God’s Chosen Negroes (I think we all remember the poster R. Model), and there are indeed the brothas who, true to much-ballyhooed stereotype, seek only lighter-skinned women.

But what I find incredibly irritating, Jimmy B, is that you use ONE example from YOUR personal experience as proof of some ludicrous universal rule… and don’t project your tired preferences on us here. While I like the looks of both Halle and Vanessa, I think Alek Wek’s fucking gorgeous (as are models Ajuma and Oluchi), and I believe we’re yet to find a black celebrity as incredible-looking as Grace Jones was in her prime.

But then again, I guess I’m not a “standard” black guy, as determined by you, James B. You sound like one of those white “I know black people” posters.

And A. Mae:
I don’t know what you thought your Nigerian ancestry was supposed to validate. I’m actually from Nigeria, and I neither subscribe to nor respect your ideas.

Stay golden.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 9:08 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

Nobody’s (no, let’s rephrase that I’m) not saying there’s no stigma against darker-skinned folk. I’m well-aware of that fact. But to put the blame solely on the doorstep of light-skinned people is ludicrous!

(did i ever imply that) No. Where in the hell did that come from. (example of negroe belligerency)

Frankly you are none other but another negroe…so you respecting my ideas is irrelevant…and they arent even ideas..they are facts..show me where I stated something false and I will give you a reference.
And I only put that I am Nigerian-born in Ibadan moved to Canada at age 3 because I wanted to let you know what point of view I was looking at it from Im not american..I dont have american values…so yea I think that is relevant to my declarative.
Secondly…you are a hypocrite..I like how James…not “Jimmy” (witchya insulting ass) stated his personal experiences…cause thats all he can account for and I think he made a pretty good point…the man is middle aged what he witnessed with his peers is what he witnessed in his students who are of a different generation therefore exemplyfing the widespread stigma of the lightskinned complex. You want to jump down his throat for those ideas…but then you turn around and say that “I think Alek Wek’s fucking gorgeous”. How dare you you use ONE example from YOUR personal OPINIONS as proof of some universal rule. James is only a representation of what goes on repeatedly in everyday society. So please come down and really read into what people are trying to say. IF you get irritated…no one asked you to stay.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:02 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And like “JIMMY”said
And reading through these comments..lets keep it civilized..just because someone doesnt accept your perception of things does not give you the right to patronize them and calling them “bitter” saying they are rambling nonsensically”—thats just flat out childish. That kind of action INVALIDATES everything you’ve said and will say.
You are right Mae…black people cant get their point across without tossing out insults.”
(and you cant blame that on the white man now can you?)

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:03 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And James B wasnt the only person who agreed with my “ideas”. If you want to attack someone..why dont you attack us all.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:04 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And I am indeed very rational but I am indeed realistic. I dont believe its the light skinned womans fault…if you were reading like a good negroe..you would have realized that I said that…im not dumpin the problem of the lightskinned womans lap but the lap of BLACK PEOPLE IN GENERAL..no one is saying its their fault at all..so fuck you once more very much.
Let me now take a leaf out of your book:
I don’t know what you thought your Nigerian ancestry was supposed to validate. I’m actually from Nigeria, and I neither subscribe to nor respect your ideas.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:08 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

YOU ARE ONLY STATING WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND HAVE EXPERIENCED (though u felt it appropriate to jump down James throat for it). Where’s the facts? ok…shut up.

And I will stay golden…just make sure you well rounded.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:10 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

Morehouse Man wrote:

I agree with everyone…everyone makes some pretty explicitly reasonable pointsl….however, I especially agree with A.mae and James…I appreciate the realistic view of it.

And Olivia…I agree also..but you know thats not what light skinned black people want to hear. lol lol. But hey, I guess the truth must be told… not realized…it has been realized..just not verbalized and why? Because people just cant handle it. I say praise black people both light and dark..and I believe you agree also A. Mae. I dont believe that you are attacking lightskinned people…however you are making some damn good points with the whole realism and idealism factor..because thats what its all going to boil down to- “which is ideal and which is real”. And real will always outweigh ideal because thats what we live in. We dont live in an ideal society…obviously(lol) so why try and view everything in that light?Some things cant be changed. The light skinned complex has been around for hundreds of years..even dating back to India where the word “nigger” originated among English Colonists…so the stigmas of the stereotypical qualities of light skinned people will not be lifted by making idealistic statements on here and quoting every black intellectual in the textbook.
Sometimes you just have to stick to the facts. Its a stigma in our society that we cannot lift…Im sorry its there. I dont condone it…and Im sure neither does A. Mae. Lyonside, james, olivia,kim etc…but be real guys be real.

My name is Morehouse Man and I am a Mulatto.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 5:38 am ¶

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:12 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

Im sorry..that the rational members seem to be only the ones that agree with you..but frankly your hypocrisy and lack of experience is making you make an ass out of yourself.

Thank you morehouse man. and Olivia…and I had a cousin graduate degree with a AAAS major from Duke…do you know a Olatunde Obayanju?

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:14 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

lol…wow truly hypocrisy at its finest also saying that you said things that you didnt and all nor imply.

Its ok for you to express your personal opinions but no one else can express their experiences…wow thats completely fair…but we are the irrational ones right…
You have some pretty solid points…however sometimes your answers are irrelevant to the comments you are responding to. Its like im doing a history question and you keep on insisting that 2+2=4. ok thats right…but it is irrelevant. And since you want to insult James…why dont you take a leaf out his book and keep it respectful in here. This is why black people cannot have civilized conversation…because someone always has to revert to the insults…
And you do realize because of the execution of your opinions…it is completely and utterly invalid now. You had some good points..but you had to ruin it with adding the insults..like adding too much salt to a well seasoned chicken…..and actually A. Mae I didnt know any Obayanjus but I was infact acquainted with some Adenirans, Adebukolas and Oladirans. lol lol.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:36 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

and that previous statement was directed to mr. merqe

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:38 am ¶
James.P wrote:

The purpose of my entry wasnt to force feed a belief on anyone..but to indeed express my experiences and how it affects both old and young..not to pass it off as an idea- just to express what goes on in my neck of the woods..and I know its not only in Lithonia, Ga this is happening..cause I am a well rounded guy and I’ve traveled…traveled alot…and honestly…its the same story in every sector…so whether or not you agree Merq doesnt change the fact that it doesnt happen. lol “basking in the ambiance of a hypocrisy”-i got that one from you mae-”KEEP IT REAL KEEP IT REAL KEEP IT REAL KEEP IT REAL…not ideal…not opinionated…just real.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:44 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

its “Basking in the ambiance of your Hypocrisy” but Im glad you noticed and understood. Never said lets all blame lightskinned ppl…”Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh” merq- maybe thats what you want to believe? because thats not what I believe or stand for..or even expessed for that matter.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:48 am ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

Did anyone even read? cause I felt like if people…like merq were reading like they were suppose to do before commenting they wouldnt be speaking irrelevant ish and jumping down someones throat for doin the exact same thing they were guilty of.
Yea..the whole insults rant…really pathetic. it was a good invalidator for your views merq. we are grown adults..stop with the insults.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 10:53 am ¶
Derisive wrote:

Actually…reading these comments… I think A.Mae and Merq would actually get along because in its essence…they are kinda saying the same thing. A. Mae didnt put the blame on the doorstep of lighter skinned blacks…but actually said it was a BLACK problem..just black people in general—and it actually is. So I dont see what the problem is..everything is tainted with disrespectfulness.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 11:32 am ¶
loveEssexHemphill2 wrote:

Fire that is closest kept, burns.

Merq, unless you speak sign language, brother, back away.

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 9:28 pm ¶
merq wrote:

WOW! Busy day, eh? Hahahaha. This is hilarious!!

But hold on a sec… I probably shouldn’t be laughing, ’cause A. Mae will probably go on another eight-post rampage… one that only serves to prove how level-headed she is, of course.

The only thing I can really take away from what I read of A. Mae’s comments (like I was really supposed to take her seriously after the foruth post!) is that I may have slipped up by referring to James B as Jimmy B… I have a tendency to do that without thinking, Mr. B. Do accept my apologies.

As far as my comments about Alek et al go, they were merely to counter James B’s claim that most people appreciate Halle & Vanessa only for their complexions. MY personal comment was used to attack a gross generalization, not create one– there’s a difference.

And while on the subject of gross generalizations, let’s talk about this “black people’s belligerence” bit. Now, while I’m certainly not belligerent, I’m under absolutely no illusions about kind of man I am. I’m an asshole, and I know it (and having read A. Mae’s comments, I hope she’s equally self-aware). Still, I’m a fair asshole… and I don’t lash out when totally uncalled for.

Now, having established myself as a bit of a dick, and suggested A. Mae take an equally honest look at herself, I’m still under NO illusion that this is some intrinsic “black” trait, as suggested by Mae, James B., and whomever else raised that old nonsense. Assholes are assholes, idiots are idiots. You lose whatever credibility you have when you come up with that near-essentialist drivel.

The rest of it stands, so I look forward to A. Mae’s exhortations on how to remain civil during an argument (between cries of “shut up” and “fuck you very much”).

Don’t stay up too late fretting. Hahha!

Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 11:59 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

You first accuse me of saying things I didnt say…accuse me of implying things I did not imply. Its not my fault that your reading comprehension skills are damn near remedial. No one is attacking light skinned women or even light skinned people in general. My point…the basis of all my replies is about the severity of the skin complex among African Americans. Where did I fabricate information? Where did I dump the blame at the door step of the light skinned women? Where are my opinions in this matter? Nowhere…this isnt information that I decided to pull out my ass and mold and shape it to my befitting…this is information I have gathered over the years…this is information I gathered from my sister who is an African African-American Studies major at Duke, this is information gathered from not only what I witnessed in my part of town…but the town next to it, and the town after that. (thank god I never threw away those surveys I did in college).
No one is saying that there arent brothers like you who do appreciate the darkskinned women…..However, in real life….REAL LIFE I must stress…thats not the same picture. A MAJORITY of African-AMERCIAN males are still on the quest for their “redbone” princesses with long hair and pretty eyes. NO on is blaming these interaccial women and people for that. Its not their problem…ITS OUR PROBLEM…as BLACKS in general…it us OUR problem…what did I say wrong? I still dont understand where you are coming off…if anything…I thought we were on the same page untill you pulled out the lets start disrespecting people in here…like a stereotypical negroe….

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:08 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

I have every right to get pissed off when you keep putting words in my mouth. thats beneath us. beaneath you and me.
I dont understand why you are soooo intent on painting this “lightskinned women hater” of me. “The oil paint isnt gonna stick.” Believe what you wanna believe…I dont get it anymore. At this time..I just think you’re looking for an argument—- a show…well go argue with yourself…because the ideas you’re generating about me and the way I “think” is probably a mentally induced representation of maybe your own inadequacies.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:12 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

I’m a fair asshole… and I don’t lash out when totally uncalled for.

OK, Lyonside, why oh WHY are you even entertaining the bitter, nonsensical ramblings of this Angry Black Woman stereotype over here?

As a black man (and no, not one of the purported 70-90% with white ancestral ties), I’ve gotta say I’m really more worried about you, A. Mae, than any of those video chicks. You come off like the modern-day embodiment of the Sapphire caricature.

O my..im sorry that was very fair…and very respectful….even though I wasnt even addressing you in the first place. I thought you were nigerian..surely you were brought up with more respect than you exhibit here.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:38 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

And I also find it very funny that you havent addressed neither the information I presented nor Olivia’s or even Morehouse Man’s. I see you picking and choosing what you want to address(though we have all been saying the same thing) Maybe because you know that we all have been saying the same thing(and you realized it loooooong ago but dont want to admit your faults- therefore continuing your personal and disrespectful attack on me.) I dont know what vendetta you have against me..neither do I care.
However, let me ask you this…and this should clarify everything…What do you personally think about Kanye’s statement? What are your views on it? What do you think is the history behind the meaning of Kanye’s quote and the inspiration/motivation behind it? I am sorry that I didnt ask before..and maybe we wouldnt have indulged ourselves in this squabble.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:46 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

The rest of it stands, so I look forward to A. Mae’s exhortations on how to remain civil during an argument (between cries of “shut up” and “fuck you very much”).

That was actually James’s quote about staying civil…I merely quoted it after you provoked me…remember you addressed me first in a disrespectful manner and I merely returned the favor…great reading skills

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:48 am ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

Now that you brought it up…yes Mr.Merqu what do you think about the quote? what are your views etc etc.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:52 am ¶
merq wrote:

A. Mae:
You keep asking why I didn’t “attack” Morehouse or Olivia, even though they were saying the same thing as you. Well, let’s see… because they were saying the same thing as you, maybe? Why repeat the same comments to all four of you, when I could just engage the ones I find more interesting (for whatever reason)?

And yeah, I would go into the whole “Kanye comment” discussion, but, to be honest, there are people I’d rather have this conversation with… you know, people who don’t go on about the “stereotypical negroe” and “belligerent black folk.”
So while I see you seem to have calmed down somewhat now (five posts, instead of seven!!), I agree that we’ve squandered any chance we may have had for an adult discussion of this topic.

So now we’re done getting our shits and giggles, I doubt there’s any point in actually conversing on the subject.

(Translation: “I’m taking my ball and going home!!”)

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 9:14 am ¶
A.Mae wrote:

The “stereotypical/belligerent” black folk didnt come after you sapphire comment….so whats your excuse again? who started it?
Your making it sound like i drew those comments out of my ass..maybe its because I was responding to the way you addressed me…no but its not ur fault…you can just go around talking to people anyway you act without consequences right?
WE squandered? I merely responded to the way u came at me…dont wanna be called stereotypical…dont come at me with the bitter rambling nonsensically line. AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:10 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

That was plenty fun actually. I like the way the merq nit picked around everything except for the basis of the discussion. Doesnt even matter..whatever you said after your #70.) response was invalid anyways.
And yea..you did start with the insults…but u didnt appreciate getting them back eh?…lol hilarious.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:50 am ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

Yea…you did start it with your response about the bitter sapphire caricature comment…even though she wasnt talking to you…so when she pulls out her stereotypical belligerency card…why throw it in her face? Um…yea..its time for you to take your ball and go home, you’ve officially made an ass out of yourself.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:52 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Um, I’m NOT joining the fray.. (dropped out a while back, having said whatever I had to say)

But why don’t you all please start using >

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 1:12 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

And it cut me off… Silly computer…
Should read:
——-
Um, I’m NOT joining the fray.. (dropped out a while back, having said whatever I had to say)

But why don’t you all please start using >

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 1:14 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

Trying this one more time - must be a code problem…
Should read:
——-
Um, I’m NOT joining the fray.. (dropped out a while back, having said whatever I had to say)

But why don’t you all please start using “

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 1:16 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:

For the sake of little green apples! Apologies for the multiple posts - I have no idea what’s wrong….

All I’m saying is please indicate the poster and use quotes or something, please, as I think that’s the cause of a lot of the namecalling and vitriol that’s derailed this thread.

Thanks!

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 1:17 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

okay am I the only one who noticed Olivia B. and Morehouse Man are being straight-up ignored?

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 6:29 pm ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

Yes…ofcourse..because unless we see things in their way..our opinions dont matter or even count as a matter of fact. ….but then again…no sense in arguing the truth right? All we did was extend on A. Maes point of idealism and realism…which is 100% accurate. Cant deny whats in black and white.lol(no pun intended)

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 6:53 pm ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

I’d rather have this conversation with… you know, people who don’t go on about the “stereotypical negroe” and “belligerent black folk.”

I also find that it is very funny how he had the audacity to even throw that in her face when he started with the insults…if you ask me…seems like you are well aware that you are a stereotypcial belligerent negroe….so much for the sapphire caricature. lol

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 6:55 pm ¶
merq wrote:

A. Mae, you poor kid. You still don’t get it, do you?

I mean, seriously. That’s the best reasoning you can muster? “Well, you started it!!”? Come on, mannn! Surely, you’re capable of better.

Anyway, you still seem not to understand. I could care less if you call me stereotypical… like I’m really gonna lose sleep over what some clearly-unhinged online entity has to say. I only mentioned your “stereotypical negroe” ** comment because you seemed to want me to actually discuss the point of this post with you. See, when I called you out on sounding like a bitter harpy, I had no desire to actually engage you in any logical discussion. I was merely encouraging Lyonside to ignore you as well. Got it now?

Plus, besides the reasons stated above, I had no desire to express an opinion on the Kanye quote when someone upthread (Lyonside, I think) had already done a pretty good job articulating what I was thinking. See, unlike Morehouse and Olivia, I see no need to echo what’s already been said (in far more interesting ways, I might add)… which may well explain why, yes, I have been ignoring them through all this.

Ahh, it’s been a long road, but I’ll always cherish the laughter…

**Oh… and seriously, who actually writes “negroe”??

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 7:07 pm ¶
A.Mae wrote:

{A. Mae, you poor kid.}
Dont patronize me.

Im sorry…I didnt realize that you all of a sudden became Lyonsides daddy.
Didnt know that as grown adults we cant handle our own any more..yea..lyonside must be throughly grateful for your dutiful asswatching/kissing right? Cool..nice for you to want to discourage him– but not at the expense of someone else….but really…get off his jock..

{I mean, seriously. That’s the best reasoning you can muster? “Well, you started it!!”? Come on, mannn! Surely, you’re capable of better. }

Then do not throw it in my face or call me out on it…..ESPECIALLY since you are guilty of the same.

And I write”negroe” cause I can- thank you. Who picks fights with people who dont address them? Who sits there and starts arguments for the sake of it? Who the hell uses “nonsensically?” only person I heard use that was my father with his heavy nigerian accent..
The more you point out my “flaws” the more you are exhibiting your hilarious idiosyncrasies.
What point exactly are you even trying to make?

{Kanye quote when someone upthread (Lyonside, I think) had already done a pretty good job articulating what I was thinking}

ok…then be quiet..if someone has already expressed your opinion..why are you still talking? Cause you can right? Just like Im afforded to use “negroe” when I feel like…Id rather use “nigger”. But I think we all know you exhibited the typical behavior of one gracefully..Id give you an Oscar..did you do the voice of Sambo back in the day?(thought I detected a hint of a yoruba accent on that little devils voice) Yea…keep coming with the insults while simulatenously crossing out the validility of everything you say. Damn you are so good at that multitasking! Maybe I should learn the ways of the “Aderemi” right? ummm. no I’ll rather stay with my Bitter Sapphire Caricature ass and ramble “nonsenically”. I should now go put my hands on my hips and roll my head, neck and eyes simultaneously?)LOL hehehe

Love, Adedoyin

P.S…you really made my day.

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:52 pm ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

OHhhh…Come on now Mae…stop with the n-word..you’re sounding like Kramer…soon maybe merq will start sounding like the disgruntled black person in the audience (”That was uncalled for!!!!!!!)

But seriously..that was hilarious..I think Im gonna print that out and hand it around the office tomorrow. I liked that Sambo joke. lol. ROTFL

Posted 27 Dec 2006 at 10:54 pm ¶
Morehouse Man wrote:

Lol….um that was indeed funny, Mae. I had to share that with someone else. I really wonder if someone can roll all of those extremities at the same time. Wow..that would be a sight to see. lol.

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 12:31 am ¶
James P. wrote:

You know what Mae, under any other circumstances I woulda been quite disappointed in you for that reply…but since its merq..yea..toss in the sambo joke and then some
…genius…hilariously genius…
But hey..thats how he wants to play it right?…and I thought he took his ball and went home already, I dont think he was quite equipt for the game..
“po’ po’ po’ sambo”. “Maybe sambo be’s a good niggra nahw”

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 12:45 am ¶
2Conflicted wrote:

Now you know you are soooooooooooooooooooo wrong for that Miss. A.Mae…and the rest of yall for laughing…but reading back at the comments…Merq, you were kinda asking for it. Guess you shouldnt dish out a plate you cant finish eating.

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 12:53 am ¶
Charles.M.Akintunde wrote:

Now I for one will not even address the insult rants between both parties. However, I did not see where A.Mae implied that it was the fault of the mulatto people of the color depthness complex, nor did she dump it at the doorstep of light skinned people,(isnt that the cause of the disagreement?)
So I must ask..what is it that she said wrong or you didnt agree with? Can someone fill me in because Im dumbfounded that this extended to a show of indeed—- belligerency{on both parties actually}.

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 1:03 am ¶
Charles.M.Akintunde wrote:

(the quote wasnt entirely false…how many video vixens are really darkskinned? im not condonin his usage of the word mutts .(even though he didnt make it up) however….if lightskinned women are valued over darkerskinned women and are thought to be more beautiful..u have no one to blame but yourselves…cause as self righteous u want to be..u have all played a role in the disenfranchising of the darkskinned woman. STOP BEING IDEALISTIC and KEEP IT REAL! )

Not to jump in all “righteous than thou”. But that was the quote “merq” was referring to correct? (when he made the comment on the sapphire/bitter caricature of A.Mae) Now I believe, if I am not mistaken that when she says that we have played a role in the “disenfranchising of the darkskinned woman”..I dont believe she was attacking any one black individual(hence I dont understand Lyonsides response with the “I dont feed into the media” retort). But truly in the larger spectrum and view of things…Black people in general…not individually have actually played a SIGNIFICANT role in the “disenfranchising” of the darkskinned woman— not to mention the brainwashing idea of the white man and “lighter is better” teachings back during slavery. So I believe..sincerly that A. Mae is in fact expressing the thoughts of not only herself, MYSELF, olivia, james, morehouse man..and yes..even you MERQ and others of what you already know.
Where you went wrong? Stressing how YOU dont participate in it? How YOU love Grace Jones. How YOU accept and embrace the darkskinned woman..But when was the responses ever in question of how YOU felt? No one is doubting that you love Grace Jones in all her darkskinned glory…A.Mae and a few others are expressing the IDEA of what a MAJORITY of blacks have both unconsicously and consciously accpeted as a beauty standard? Is that agreeable?
No need for the disrespectful retorts back and forth. I believe as well educated Nigerians and Americans…or just grown adults in general, that it is a little bit beneath us.
Agree to Disagree
..And end it there.

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 1:19 am ¶
Olivia B. wrote:

That was the voice of reason we needed. Thank you Mr.Akintunde.

Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 1:21 am ¶