Comments

1. dcase wrote:

   I certainly make a distinction between American blacks and Caribbeans and Africans, and black latinos. These differences must be honored.Unlike most whites, who have historically sacrificed their ethnic differences to the altar of whiteness, blacks have maintained these differences.

   I went to undergrad with a bunch of Caribs and Africans and there was never a sense of an affinity among the groups. Often, many would express stereotypes about american blacks: lazy, dumb,violent, backwards, deserved to be oppressed, etc. When I was in undergrad and did well in my classes I would always get questions about my ancestry; most thought because of my phenotype and I did well, I was of Carib ancestry and was often shocked that I was a regular black guy. One women I was trying to date told me that her parents would never approve of a non-Jamaican. I was taken aback. Moreover, I’ve found that whites are more welcoming to foreign-born blacks.

   However, the rift highlights again the problems with racial classification. Lumping people together on the basis of one or two related phenotypes and ignores different histories, origins, etc is often uninformative and disguises the heterogeneity within.

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 6:08 am ¶

2. S wrote:

   For cultural reasons, I usually address non-american blacks differently. But this isn’t always an accurate move because some of the people I assume are of a different culture actually grew up here, and have the same culture as many blacks, just a differenct ancestry and acccent.

   About the Football story. Lovely. It’s like having a cool glass of lemonade when I hear good stories like that. It really does help my mindset and gives me something good to look back on when I start to think that all white people are the same. Thanks Jen and Carmen for the link to the article!

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 9:30 am ¶

3. Adrianna wrote:

   I think the asticle is dangerous since it seems to be saying that black immigrants are better than African Americans. It the whole Model minority bull.
   I have tho agree with The Think though black immigrant have a different set of values. when I fisrt came here in the States i Had a hard time befreinding Black Americans, I would be judged on the way I spoke on my taste in music, movies ect. It’s hard tryind to befreind someone, when you feel that you are constantly being judge on your non black taste in whatever. What bull!! I had a black American freind tell me that i was acting non - Haitian like, funny since i was the only Haitian he had ever met.
   At the end of my high school year I ended up being freinds with other immigrants and white Americans, I found less judgement. In college I gravitated towards other immigrants also. In upstate NY thing can be pretty segregated some neighborrhoods are gentrified . In my college the foreign kids stuck together regardless of color because we only had each other and we are all away from home. I do have to say though that there was a lot of resentment toward some of African American students and the oppurtunity that was afforded to them. But I think what we got pissed most about though is the whole Oreo thing. Being told that intelligence is not a black trait is insulting very insulting especially coming form poor countries where education is the way to a better life.

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 11:24 am ¶

4. merq wrote:

   dcase:

   I’m sure you’re aware that for every story like yours, there’s at least one like mine– completely devoid of any animosity between AfAms and AfroCaribs.

   Granted, the black people in my social circles were 85% African or Caribbean. However, I’m still great friends with a number of my African-American friends from my college days.

   I think much of this so-called animosity is an unfortunate, real-life manifestation of what began as some creative storytelling. The cases that are real are, in my opinion, the result of oppressed cultures lashsing out at a more “approachable” class than those actually in power. It’s the classic “well, I’ve gotta be better than somebody” attitude.

   and was often shocked that I was a regular black guy.

   By the way, a “regular” black guy? That’s a little troubling, my friend.

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 7:20 pm ¶

5. dcase wrote:

   Merq:
   First, “regular” was how I was referred to when described by some of the Carib people I knew as opposed to having some ancestry from the Caribbean. Hence, I hope you feel troubled about them, too.

   Second, I’m not saying that I had serious problems with most of the people I met. Actually, I had cordial relations with most but I cannot say today I am or ever was good friends with any Africans or Caribbeans.

   However, I know that counterexamples to my case exist; unlike me, my mom and younger sisters moved to South Florida when I went to college and their best friends are Caribs. I’m just speaking about my experiences.

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 7:42 pm ¶

6. gatamala wrote:

   not like a regular black guy? Don’t you just LOVE how people classify blacks based on some amorphous (probably negative) norm?!

   “the result of oppressed cultures lashsing out at a more “approachable” class than those actually in power. It’s the classic “well, I’ve gotta be better than somebody” attitude.” — good point. It happens here, it happens on the continent, it happens b/t Haitians & Dominicans…

   I’ve had negative (that do really hurt) and positive experiences. I do get peeved at “bootstrap” arguments & not-so-subtle digs at my “culture”. Most black folks (origin notwithstanding) I know welcome and understand historical differences. Yeah, there are some assholes, but by & large there is no war.

   Sometimes I just wonder about the motives underlying articles like these.

   Posted 04 Oct 2006 at 1:01 pm ¶

7. Sewere wrote:

   Merq and dcase,

   I think the issue you guys bring up is a combination of exported racism and colonial racism. My experience with my fellow Nigerians mirrors what dcase was saying, a form of exported racism were Nija folk view Afro-Americans (I’ve heard the slur ‘Akata’ used one too many times) as “lazy” and “lacking culture”. In my opinion, the issue is often manifested in relationships - a lot of Nigerian men wouldn’t mind sleeping with Afro-American women but would not be interested in marrying them. As an extension, Nigerian women are less likely to be in relationships with non-Nigerian men (which I think is indicative of the intersecting symptoms of racism and sexism of “traditional” immigrant experiences).

   CVK and JC, it would be interesting to have a round table with African-Americans and first and/or second generation black US immigrants to hear some of the issues being discussed here.

   Just my two cents for now.

   Posted 04 Oct 2006 at 9:39 pm ¶

8. merq wrote:

   Se were,
   I definitely know what you’re talking about (and don’t get me started on the whole “akata” thing), but my point to dcase was that for every one of those cases, you have another that is completely devoid of that kind of thinking.

   Look at yourself, for example. From your tone, I think it’s safe to assume you’re an example of an African who holds none of those negative perceptions about AfAms. Thus, as I like to say on occasions such as these, look in the mirror. What you see isn’t nearly as unique as you imagine.

   Posted 05 Oct 2006 at 7:00 pm ¶

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