Comments

1. dcase wrote:

   I wish there was a bit more discussion of the ostensible Aisan-American conflict during the call-in show given that the intergender antagonism among blacks is fairly well documented and the usual them of the discussion (stereotypes and educational differences) has become somewhat trite.

   Black women need to stop blaming interracial marriage and differential educational attainment for their relationship woes. There is nothing inherent that guarantees that an outgroup marrying black man would have developed a stable match with a black woman. Whatever resources he provided to the community are still in the community because he is necessarily a part of that community by definition . Moreover, educated black women by looking towards black men with less education but stable/blue -collar jobs , would find ample choices. Unfortunately, this doesn’t often happen.

   Black men’s antagonism at black women will only be solved when the misogynism rampant in our society is curtailed. Most of the stereotypes often quoted (e.g., gold-diggers) are rooted in that misogynism and is exacerbated by relative weakness of the position of black males in this society.

   In addition, I found several of the comments by some to be elitist and downright offensive. For example, the notion that one feels they have to “dumb down” their speech when talking to people from the ” ‘hood” struck me as very elitist. As a seasoned code-switcher, I can understand that changing your speech patterns to fit the perceived situation can seem ( it’s pretty natural for me at this point ) difficult for some. However, suggesting that this is ” dumbing” yourself carries the implicit assumption that those who speak the “Black English” dialect are necessarily inferior. As a native speaker of said dialect who also speaks “White English” I don’t find my ability lessened when employing those speech patterns and if I never left my community-as many don’t due to the hypersegregation of our society- I would have never learned to code-switch but I would have still been a National Merit Scholar.

   Finally, a humorous anecdote that reminded me show’s subject matter. While I was walking to my office on campus, I happened to see an interesting interaction. Several young Asian guys were speaking animatedly ( and a bit angrily) amongst themselves as I was walking past them. I originally thought their comments were directed at me until I realized that their eyes were directed a the bus stop where a young Korean-American girl (who incidentally was a former student of mine) was engaged in some serious PDA with a white man. However, the best part of the scene was that when they disengaged, the white male had on a bright red shirts that said ” I Love Korea.”

   Posted 29 Sep 2006 at 8:42 am ¶

2. s wrote:

   dcase,

   I, too, wish there was more discussion on the Asian American conflict, specifically, I was expecting more calls and IM’s from asians for the show.

   Many factors besides education and IR’s fall into play with “relationship woes” for black women. It’s not IR’s in general that hurt black women, so much as it is the Anybody But Black syndrome that the world has. And, most married black women ARE married to men with “blue collar jobs”. Most black women ARE dating men with the average job. Therefore, your comments on the issuse also seem “somewhat trite”.

   Your comment on the community, well, you’ve got a point, but not really. Not all black men in IR’s continue to associate with the black community. Some continuously attempt to distance themselves as far as possible when they see a chance. This includes their “resources”. So, while they are included in our population count, they are not always willing to “give back to the community”, nor do they have any love for it, despite the many black women who may have helped them to become successful (nothing like a good ole slap in the face). And yes, I know this is not unique to black men.

   I find it a bit pathetic and a tad humorous when people encourage black women to lower their standards in terms of income and education, yet it’s RARE to hear anyone tell a man to lower his standards in terms of looks and societal status. Hmm, do I smell Double Standard Soup? Please keep in mind that you don’t know the # of women who could care less about a mans education level or lack of the “white collar”. Believe it or not, some people really are looking for love and love alone.

   Anyway, I do agree that the “lack of love” issuses in the black community are a bit old, and tiresome to boot. Of course, they still need to be dealt with, but perhaps a discussion on the sex wars and other issues in the Asian American community could be the lone subject of a future podcast.

   Posted 29 Sep 2006 at 10:10 am ¶

3. dcase wrote:

   s,
   I think you misunderstood my post given the sharpness of your comments . My comments were originally aimed at the number of callers who brought up the educational attainment of black men in regards to the relationships of black men and women. This belief is clearly has its roots in the myriad of articles, both mainstream and scholarly, and “folk wisdom” that decry the inability of educated black women to find a suitable mate and suggest that this “problem” can attributed to outmarriage of black men and a gap in educational attainment . I believe this is really a non- issue because as I noted above there is no guarantee that black men who have outmarried would have developed a match with one of the available black women and I seriously doubt differences in educational attainment alone or together with outmarriage would explain very much of the marriage gap at all.

   Moreover, there is no double standard being advocated here because the issue of men opening their minds to a larger variety of beauty standards was irrelevant to my post. First, there seems to be very little evidence that black men have problems getting married. Second, evidence in this area suggest men tend to take what they can get.

   I am not advocating black women to “lower their standards.” I am arguing that with respect to the multidimensional vector of attributes that people match on in seeking to foster a stable matches, the weights placed on each attribute relevant in the decision process may need to be restributed a little; especially those placed on income and education given the current income\education structure within the black community. Not every black female professional can have a black male professional as a husband and as your anecdote suggests,many black women have figured this fact out and modified their behavior accordingly. Still, this is only a relevant strategy IF they have to have a black man as husband. Otherwise, it’s moot.

   Finally, you discuss the lack of association with the black community of some black men who married interracially. However, this does not mean that ir marriage caused them to act in this manner. It could be that even in the absence of marrying interracially these black men would not have wanted to associate with other blacks. In fact, there could be many other factors that have induced said black men to act this way. Hence, I don’t believe ir marriage as the causal factor here. Moreover, there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary in that black men tend to bring their non-black wives to the black community because historically blacks have been much more welcoming of such relationships.

   Posted 29 Sep 2006 at 3:46 pm ¶

4. Kevin wrote:

   “..black community because historically blacks have been much more welcoming of such relationships.”

   Heh, you used the word “welcoming”. I don’t think it’s a matter of welcoming more than it’s a matter of passivity and a kind of wait and see attitude.

   Posted 01 Oct 2006 at 6:03 pm ¶

5. Admin wrote:

   i’m glad that this is being discussed because i remember being concerned during the call-in show that the conversation wasn’t really covering dynamics within the Asian-American community at all.

   i hypothesize that it was so because the topic is not as frequently talked about as it is in the African-American community (so much so, that people feel like it’s beating a dead horse already). therefore, people are still uncomfortable and maybe don’t know where to begin. isn’t it easier to talk about that which has already been discussed time and time again?

   i definitely think that there is probably more to cover in the discussion……. ~JC

   Posted 02 Oct 2006 at 7:32 pm ¶

6. S wrote:

   Kevin has a great point. Though I do know many families that would actually “welcome” white and other non-black wives, many black families are in the “wait and see” mode.

   dcase, it has been reported that the black community is more passive on IR’s, but I can’t help but to think that some of these men who bring their “white” wives back to the black community wouldn’t do so if they were more “welcomed” in the white community. Again, I say SOME, not all. And like I said before, I would like to have heard this discussion between asians because it’s really easy to say this mainly happens in the black community. I wonder how asians welcome whites and other non-asians.

   There’s “evidence” that men just take what they can get? Where? That does not match the view of things here in IN.

   Posted 03 Oct 2006 at 8:11 am ¶

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